PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: hpesoj on November 05, 2004, 06:32:21 am
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hello I am a player by the name of Balmug, this is my first post, i would just like to bring to your attention an instance where i was treated very disrespectively:
i am a long time player who played consistantly over the summer and had just recently stoped palying to consentrate on school but i had decide to play one night expexting the normal happy chatroom like atmosphere but when i got there i could not remember the key to change the view mode so i /shout ed for help and a player by the name of Golmir responed very rudely so i tryed to ignore it then i notices it was quiet so i started /shouting messages to get some action started, when i was promty told to stop shouting messages by a certin player named Golmir, he then sterted to rag on me for useing the game as a chat room and not RPGing, i do not like being told what to do by a noob, so i lost my temper an began to start shout ing more messages. towad him, before the proplem could escalate a GM intervined he/she talked me into apoilgising so i did, but Golmir coulnot let it alone so he started in on me i lostmy temper again so i sent him a message with a lot of prfanity hoping it would get him to quit but he would not then another player had us meet at the temple to resolve it where the problem it only escalated to another shouting match and then i exited the game I was wrong for losing my temper but he had no right to tell me or any other players what to do there is no right or wrong way to play Plain Shift but it is only a game and it has many players who are very dedicated and deserve respect and the right to play it any way they please within the rules, if they want to shout and chat thatis fine it is a great way to meet people , but if u are a true RPGer than you can play it that way too. I\'m just asking for a little manners and i hope you agree
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I\'ve seen some long sentences in my day, but that takes the cake!
I think the lesson we all learned here is that sometimes it\'s best simply to drop it. When someone gets angry with you and tries to get you into a shouting match with them simply ignore them. Don\'t stoop to their level.
Conversely, don\'t bother starting stuff like this. Like my mommy always told me, if you don\'t have something nice to say don\'t say anything at all. Seriously. Nothing good comes from this, and all you do is make yourself look like a flaming adolescent.
*considers his two cents given
:emerald:
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I disagree, hpesoj. Shouting isn\'t for conversation. Asking for help is fine if it\'s not overdone, buth otherwise there should be no shouting, at least not if there is any RPG going on. /shout fills everyones\' screen, with only very few ppl. interested in it, so it borders on SPAM.
Edit: BTW, a minimum level of politeness needs to be maintained regardless, of course.
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Some people consider people who use shout all the time in a non RPing mode to be rude and without manners.
Remember there is always two sides to everything before you get upset.
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Isn\'t the use of quotations considered polite? I think it is.
Since I have reason to beleive that your keyboard is missing keys, here is a list of proper tools for sentence structure.
. ! ? , ; : \" \' - <===== Feel free to copy and paste these from this post. Mind your manners.
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what they have said pretty much sums it up, but you are wrong in calling Golmir a \"noob\" I\'m sure he called you such as well, but he was here when I first played, which was a long time ago now. He helped me out a lot.
Most actives use PS for roleplaying now, not chatting. It depends on the people.
As for profanity, don\'t resort to that, it offends people.
Oh, manners has two n\'s in it.
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Well, it helps if you don\'t get pissed, it takes 2 hands to clap
Rule 3 of useing the internet, yes argueing is fun but like everything eals overdoing it is a no-no :D
[Pic removed- Moogie]
Awww moogs why did ya take that one down ? * stares down the barrel of the ban stick* ... wait ! NO, no iam not unhappy, iam just asking but .. no need to answer !
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Originally posted by Seytra
I disagree, hpesoj. Shouting isn\'t for conversation. Asking for help is fine if it\'s not overdone, buth otherwise there should be no shouting, at least not if there is any RPG going on.
Oh please, that\'s incredibly stupid. Planeshift is not some private RP session like maybe some people would have in IRC.
Now, this guy was definately wrong...there is no reason to use \"a lot of prfanity\" to try to get someone to be quiet. But there is also no reason for Golmir to be a complete ass either, this isn\'t the first time people have complained about him and he needs to learn to just leave it alone.
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look u guys i told u that i was wrong for losing my temper and useing prophanity an right now i apologize to the whole planeshift community for that, I\'m sorry, but the reason im mad is that it\'s not up to Golmir to decide how i play the game i just want to have fun that\'s all. he is not a GM.
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bleh, this is why you should all join The Cabal and not some guild which has some \'good guy evil smiter\' in it who can\'t keep his temper -_-
(Yeah, totally unrelated, but that\'s advertising for you ;))
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If you don\'t like someone and want to ignore him/her, get Ciry\'s mods here (http://gpax.org/ciry79/index.htm). The only thing you have to do then is typing \"/ignore Golmir\".
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Originally posted by Kiern
Originally posted by Seytra
I disagree, hpesoj. Shouting isn\'t for conversation. Asking for help is fine if it\'s not overdone, buth otherwise there should be no shouting, at least not if there is any RPG going on.
Oh please, that\'s incredibly stupid. Planeshift is not some private RP session like maybe some people would have in IRC.
No, but it is also not some public chatroom like many people do have in IRC. Maybe \"any\" was a mistake, it should be \"any serious\". Obviously, you can\'t know if there is any RPG going on if you\'re not there, but this is in fact a reason to assume that there always is some RPG going on. Therefore, one needs to keep shouting to a minimum. After all, if you want to chat, you can just meet somewhere, just as the RPers do, no? How would you like it if there would constantly be someone who keeps shouting accross your PnP RPG table at the next table to \"get some communication going\", even if it were in a public area? Would you not tell them off?
Originally posted by Kiern
Now, this guy was definately wrong...there is no reason to use \"a lot of prfanity\" to try to get someone to be quiet. But there is also no reason for Golmir to be a complete ass either, this isn\'t the first time people have complained about him and he needs to learn to just leave it alone.
Yes, and this is why I edited my post to include:
Originally posted by Seytra
Edit: BTW, a minimum level of politeness needs to be maintained regardless, of course.
Originally posted by hpesoj
look u guys i told u that i was wrong for losing my temper and useing prophanity an right now i apologize to the whole planeshift community for that, I\'m sorry, but the reason im mad is that it\'s not up to Golmir to decide how i play the game i just want to have fun that\'s all. he is not a GM.
You know, GMs aren\'t the only ones to decide what is OK and what isn\'t. In fact, they are there to help out if the community itself (i.e., the players) are unable / unwilling to properly regulate themselves. To me, it is a sure sign of immaturity if the only way to get someone to adhere to some basic rules is GM intervention. You know, ther is this quote:
Originally said by some IMO wise person
The freedom of an individual ends where the freedom of another individual starts.
So this pretty much sums it up. If IRL everybody would wait until the police would call them off, we\'d have a really screwed up society. Both sides need to use common sense at all times.
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Is there really a point to this thread?
I understand that no one likes to be \'told\' how to play, I know that I would dislike it very much if anyone was telling me to keep my mouth shut when all I wanted was some help. However, after reading you post a third time, Golmir was not unhappy -it seems- about your asking for help but the way in which it was asked for or, perhaps the latter part where you started trying to start a conversation.
I have not been on the MB server in some time but I am surprised that shouting is getting this big a reaction at all. Last time I was there no one even used the /say command, it was all just one big chatroom; in fact I remember Golmir saying that to a new player.
\"what can I do in this game?\"
\"Chat and hunt for crystals.\"
\"Thanks.\"
Yep that was pretty much it.
So either you were spamming the chat channel, Golmir was in a bad mood, or the current onliners are just grumpy.
Oh, why did you need to come to the board and gipe about it anyway?
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Originally posted by Seytra
No, but it is also not some public chatroom like many people do have in IRC.
After all, if you want to chat, you can just meet somewhere, just as the RPers do, no? How would you like it if there would constantly be someone who keeps shouting accross your PnP RPG table at the next table to \"get some communication going\", even if it were in a public area? Would you not tell them off?
It is a public chatroom. Anyone can download it and anyone can log into it. And what do people do there? Chat. Thus, public chat.
In answer to your question, no I would not simply because that doesn\'t bother me...but I can see how it does others, which doesn\'t mean it makes them correct. Both sets of people have a right to be there, you might ask them to quiet down, but overall it has to be their decision. Unless there is some rule that states \"no shouting across....stuff\" which really doesn\'t make any sense.
Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, and this is why I edited my post to include:
Edit: BTW, a minimum level of politeness needs to be maintained regardless, of course.
Yeah, my first paragraph was in reply to that section of your post, the second was just \"in general\" reply in which I agreed with you. Sorry.
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I just couldn\'t resist. Hpesoj, you are now in my black book of spelling and grammar. Shameless lack of any punctuation whatsoever.
*Scrolls up the thread* Man, what is this, an advert thread? Cabal, Ciry\'s Mods....
Oh, and I\'m behind Golmir on this one, nothing personal Hepsoj.
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Originally posted by Kiern
It is a public chatroom. Anyone can download it and anyone can log into it. And what do people do there? Chat. Thus, public chat.
Nope, it\'s not. If it were, it would say so. But AFAICS, it says \"MMORPG\", not \"MMOC\". :P
Originally posted by Kiern
In answer to your question, no I would not simply because that doesn\'t bother me...but I can see how it does others, which doesn\'t mean it makes them correct. Both sets of people have a right to be there,
I can\'t see why it wouldn\'t bother you, but obviously I am not you, so I can\'t really know. Anyway, it certainly would bother me, and no, there is no actual \"right\" to be there. As I said above, it\'s an RPG, not a chat, and therefore chatting has no right to be there. Therefore, chatting needs to be done in the privacy of the normal talking range if someone complains.
Originally posted by Kiern
you might ask them to quiet down, but overall it has to be their decision. Unless there is some rule that states \"no shouting across....stuff\" which really doesn\'t make any sense.
Such a rule IMO is implied by \"RPG\" in the description. Of course, MB is a pretty chatroom, but it\'s not meant to be one, therefore chatting is actually abuse of the system. If I ever log on, I don\'t RP, but I also don\'t chat in the /shout channel, because I know how annoying that is. Ppl. always look for some written rules instead of applying some simple principles of politeness and common sense. It doesn\'t say in a restaurant \"don\'t shout\", but guess what, if you did, you\'d be told off rather quickly, and it\'s not \"your right to use the restaurant as you see fit unless there is some written rule\", and certainly it\'s not \"their decision\".
Well, OK, technically it is, but you need to be prepared to be treated accordingly, and if afterwards you come here and whine about having been stung after messing with the bees, I\'ll only laugh at you. (not saying that the bees should keep stalking you if you let them be)
So in this sense, this thread doesn\'t serve any purpose other than killing some time.
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This seems like a two sided issue. Both were wrong, and both should have taken care of it, and not come here to \"tell on Golmir.\"
If you were not in the right, you really cannot expect someone else to be in the right too...
If that made no sense, it was probably because it was my first post :)
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(reply to Seytra) I still don\'t understand why you see shouting as rude, sure in the formal sense maybe...but you can\'t hear them talking in this game.
I certainly don\'t see the fun in what I see so many people doing in MB, which is standing in a circle and not moving from that spot the entire time. When I was on I enjoyed running around, doing things. So, if I wanted to talk to everyone I used /shout. That being it\'s purpose.
And I don\'t know where you\'re pulling that chatting is an abuse of the system, there\'s a \"chat box\" for chatting.
I still think it\'s a public chatroom, they do not have to specifically say it is for it to be one.
Originally posted by Seytra
So in this sense, this thread doesn\'t serve any purpose other than killing some time.
Like...a game? Having...fun maybe? :P
Originally posted by Thenior
If you were not in the right, you really cannot expect someone else to be in the right too...
Just because someone did something stupid it does not excuse the other person...I see what you\'re saying though, this person really did have no reason to complain.
Alright I\'m done.
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With CB pulling closer, the RP side of things has heated up in anticipation for the release I imagine. People are hammering things out for their characters to be ready for CB. Shouting shouldn\'t be a chatroom unto itself. If you want to hold a conversation, hold one where not everyone has to hear you. Maybe a single shout such as \"meet at the temple for a chat\" but /shout conversations I believe are an abuse of the system. Seytra has summed up everything and I agree 100%. Just because /you/ believe it\'s a public chatroom, doesn\'t mean everyone else does.
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I am with Seytra on this, someone would be in touble if they were yelling to start conversation in one of my PnP games... Sure we talk OOC, but only when necessary, and never yelling.
He should have gone to the temple, and asked them... as for shouting conversations, ugh... I hate it when I forget shout is on (Ciry\'s Mod).
I don\'t think it\'s a chat room, but if people want to, they should keep it to themselves. I\'ve had a few OOC discussions, all using /say between a small group in the temple.
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Originally posted by Kiern
(reply to Seytra) I still don\'t understand why you see shouting as rude, sure in the formal sense maybe...but you can\'t hear them talking in this game.
That\'s very simple: because it shows up on my screen. It clutters up the already tiny space, thus it makes any conversation I might be having harder to follow. Hence, it is annoying.
Originally posted by Kiern
So, if I wanted to talk to everyone I used /shout. That being it\'s purpose.
If it were it\'s purpose, the command wouldn\'t be named /shout, but /chat. Also, there wouldn\'t be a \"talking range\", but only global (/shout) and maybe a /private (/tell) command only. Therefore, obviously /shout is meant to be the ingame equivalent of shouting IRL, i.e. for important and urgent things, not for chatting idly.
Originally posted by Kiern
And I don\'t know where you\'re pulling that chatting is an abuse of the system, there\'s a \"chat box\" for chatting.
Everything that the system isn\'t meant to be ( not to be confused with \"not designed to be! :) ) is abusing it. It says \"chat box\", but IMO in the IC sense, as you\'ll of course be \"chatting\" IC if you RP. It does therefore apply to IC chatter, not to OOC stuff. But even IC, you\'d not shout... hence, the system isn\'t meant to be used in this way, therefore it\'s abuse.
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Golmir is a respected member of ps and he always tries to stay by the rules. He has a thing about people using the /shout command too much. I don\'t blame him though. Many people take advantage of that command using it for idle chat ect. The shout command should be us if.. well, I cant think of a time to use it :) By reading your post I could tell your one of those guys who go happy off of the /shout command. \"/shout: hey im on the roof!.\" \"/shout: hey im outside the city!\" ect. If you need help find somone and ask, its not hard.
BTW Golmir is a nice guy who helps others follow the rules. You should thank him
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to :D or to X( ?
no doubt, rofl
Using Ciry\'s or Aineko\'s mods, I use macros instead of slowly typing (as I do now) in an average english.
btw to \"what can we do in this game?\" I don\'t answer chat
but #todo
You can Role Play, explore, try 2 quests, collect Crystals, make friends, join a guild, read http://www.psnewb.tk/
Here are the macros I use either in /shout or /say (when within range) and sometimes in /tell xxxx by editing the name (it can be slow with some weird names).
To help you define \'golmir was very rude\':
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Please go easy on the /shouting as it\'s broadcast to everyone playing... head to the temple if you require assistance or use /tell (playername) to make it a personal conversation. So everyone will be able to have as much fun privately as you do.
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When someone forgot the netiquette and shout all in caps
: easy on caps please
Send each time he feels useful to shout \"I DONT CARE\" or any other nice name he cares to give me. If they finally ask \'why?\"
:http://www.onlinenetiquette.com
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When someone opens the wrong page of his dictionary
:Language please
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If for some reason someone asks in the name of what the 3D release of irc he downloaded is supposed to be a RPG I quote the planeshift website
http://www.planeshift.it > community > FAQ : Yes, there will be moderators and a lot of people that will care for the safety and enjoyment of all players. We will not tolerate any bad behaviour. We will have a limited bandwidth and server capabilities, so if some players behaves badly, we will ban it from the game to give more space to other good roleplayers.
____________
So, as it seem to offend some pple, I hope that here there is someone that could correct the offending part.
ps: sorry for not quoting the answers I recieve by /shout or /tell, last time I did, someone was very rude and told me \'language please\"
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That netiquette site is interesting.
I see nothing wrong or offensive with any of your reply macros Golmir, and I know that you use these, as I have seen you. As I already stated, you helped me out a lot on my first day, and I found it hard to believe you were extremely rude to anyone.
My answer to your shakespearian question: :D
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Jezus,why is everyone picking on the guy that started this threat?
I mean people /shout <----this command is made for people to shout in a game.Im sure the guy just wanted someone to talk with. Then you get Golmir who suddenly jumps up from the chatbox and tells you rudely you should stop shouting.
He did the same with me,i mean ,no disrespect to golmir he\'s a long time player. Longer then me and i\'m a pretty old player meself. And he really helps the newbies in to playing the game but
Just let the people have fun. Golmir was obiously inactive or something when the guy was on in the summer,then he relogs back to ps to see whats going on.
He uses the /shout command and bang he has golmir flaming on him.
Well i know for sure this reply of me will get flamed now,i just had to get this off my chest.
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No flames, a question... a simple question.
Did you read this thread?
Edit: Courtesy 10 (http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/courtesy10.html) applies to many people sadly, this includes many gamers.
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What do you mean did you read this threat,ofcourse i read it i wouldnt reply if i didnt would I ?
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One would presume so, but then one would reaad your post and be forced to reconsider.
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Originally posted by Seytra
I disagree, hpesoj. Shouting isn\'t for conversation. Asking for help is fine if it\'s not overdone, buth otherwise there should be no shouting, at least not if there is any RPG going on. /shout fills everyones\' screen, with only very few ppl. interested in it, so it borders on SPAM.
Edit: BTW, a minimum level of politeness needs to be maintained regardless, of course.
Then perhaps they should have played, or RPGed as you put elsewhere! Perhaps they could use thier E-mail adresses and post messages that way.
If someone asks something it is only decent/normal to adres this person, if everyone is too busy RPGin\' in a PUBLIC game then the fault is theirs! The /shout ..... command is used all the time whenever i\'m online there\'s always people using it and no one really bothers or makes a big deal out of it!
I rest my case for now!
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I fell I must weigh in yes the shout comand has been and does get used alot most of the time however I only use it when speaking to more than one person many times I have been talking to an npc and not even been able to scroll and read what he said because every time someone shouts it resets the srceen to the bottom.
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I witnessed this kind of problem yesterday on MB and was wondering if I should post a thread about it or just keep it to myself (bless Search). In the case I witnessed, a noob was shouting words that you cant even tolerate on IRC, therefor I would have expected a GM to blame him (after we had spent nearly 15min trying to explain him that he was annoying) but... no GM online, I therefor left PS...
I dont really know what happened in your case, but to me Golmir can have been very right to tell you off if you had the same kind of behavior that noob had.
Anyway, IMO (I managed to guess the meaning of this yesterday so now I can use it :D ) PS isnt a place for shouting, /tell and /say are just great, I really cant see the purpose of shouting (except to arrange meetings or saying \'hello\' of course)
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Originally posted by Owl
Then perhaps they should have played, or RPGed as you put elsewhere! Perhaps they could use thier E-mail adresses and post messages that way.
If someone asks something it is only decent/normal to adres this person, if everyone is too busy RPGin\' in a PUBLIC game then the fault is theirs! The /shout ..... command is used all the time whenever i\'m online there\'s always people using it and no one really bothers or makes a big deal out of it!
Well, actually the whole purpose of Planeshift is being a roleplaying environment. (see General Information on Setting (http://www.planeshift.it/setting.html).) But on the other hand people should be able to check out the tech demos without having to roleplay, roleplayers should however not be disturbed.
PS Still roleplayers should of course not be rude just because people use a command that actually exists. DS
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PS Still roleplayers should of course not be rude just because people use a command that actually exists. DS
Agreed!
B.t.w. good to see you here milady Leji!
*Bows*
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I wonder if owl forgets that this is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. To me, RP is mandatory solely by the category the game falls under.
If they want to test out the tech demo, fine. But he admitted he was \"shouting to start conversation\" that is ignorant and rude.
Imagine being down the street and having some strange person yelling out random conversation topics, trying to start a conversation. It\'s hardly a good display of etiquette is it?
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Originally posted by Adeli
I wonder if owl forgets that this is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. To me, RP is mandatory solely by the category the game falls under. Imagine being down the street and having some strange person yelling out random conversation topics, trying to start a conversation. It\'s hardly a good display of etiquette is it?
Actually i haven\'t forgotten my dear friend L, but perhaps it is best we pass judgement after actually witnessing before mentioned events so let us move on and let this topic rest! ;)
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Originally posted by Owl
Then perhaps they should have played, or RPGed as you put elsewhere! Perhaps they could use thier E-mail adresses and post messages that way.
You\'re joking, right? Are you actually proposing that in the MMORPG called \"PS\" should be no RP taking place, but instead via email? If yes, I only have one answer for you:
NO WAY!
PS is an RPG, not a chat. Therefore, RPG takes precedence before chat, and therefore chat is only to be tolerated if it does not disturb any RP going on. How about the idle chatters taking their talkative presence to something appropriate, like a chat? It is not the duty of the RPGers to tolerate chatters, it\'s the duty of the chatters not to disturb the RPGers.
Originally posted by Owl
if everyone is too busy RPGin\' in a PUBLIC game then the fault is theirs!
Please tell me what \"public\" has to do with anything? Does \"public\" mean \"a place without rules\"? No, it doesn\'t. In fact, you\'re more restricted in public places than in private ones in what you may and may not do. PS is designated (IMO absolutely clearly) as RPG, and therefore the RPers have every right to busy themselves with RP as much as they wish. AND they also have every right to demand not to be disturbed, so it is entirely the chatter\'s fault!
Originally posted by Owl
The /shout ..... command is used all the time whenever i\'m online there\'s always people using it and no one really bothers or makes a big deal out of it!
Therefore...? Just because usually there is no RP going on or the RPers don\'t feel overly disturbed by the /shout chatting doesn\'t mean that suddenly every RPer needs to endure it. In fact, it is a nice gesture of RPers to not tell chatters off, but they are in no way obliged not to, even if they did not in the past.
Just because in the cinema the ppl. didn\'t mind you talking doesn\'t mean that talking in this cinema suddenly becomes acceptable and that future visitors need to endure your talking.
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IMO chatting should be ok in PS, as long as you arent using the /shout command. THAT WOULD BE YELLING, AND THAT IS RUDE. The shout command should only be used to find people and arange a meeting, or /shout does anybody know where I can find a healer? kind of stuff.
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i guess i dont understand what the big deal is...no matter where your at IRL, PS, the game that should not be named your gonna run into people that u disagree with in their way of conducting themselves....if you\'re rping and someone happens to be shouting random things is it really worth stopping yourself and flaming them or to type /ignore *....honestly i dont really understand why in PS people have to conduct themselves as such and start a thread about getting into a VERBAL fight where thier feelings got hurt. this is not that big of an issue people are gonna put you down in life either fight back, walk away, or type /ignore...(lol that\'ll work IRL too)
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Today has been impossible to maintain a conversation with the NPCs, the \' Shouts\' storm has been unbearable and hasn\'t let me fulfill the second \' Quest\'.
Please, it\'s necessary to maintain manners within any game or social event, this game has, and the \' RPGs\' in general, rules and an etiquette, we respect them by the good of the game or we will kill it.
Think about it, thanks.
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In CB we\'ll be able to control this kind of problem far easier. For starters, we\'ll actually have some GMs online 24/7. :P The shout command in CB has been reduced from \'Global\' to \'Zone Only\'. If anyone is having problems with abusive players, or anyone sees a shouting match going on, they can use the GM Petition screen to alert GMs who may not already be aware of the situation.
For now, this topic has run its course and is starting to heat up, so we\'ll close it.
Anything dire to say here, PM me with a reason why I should temporarily reopen it.