PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Trianas on November 12, 2004, 09:05:08 am
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well we are the leaders of all the main guilds we come together as kind of a police we have no leader we just decide things as a group, all major guilds will be decreed as members
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.. \\o/ .. This is becoming annoying :D
Anyway ...
-> http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=5431&boardid=18 <-
The idea needs a lot of improvements, but I am still supporting it. I can speak with the members of the Dream of the Sarukai, and with other guilds the Council might start. In time, others will join, seeing it\'s getting bigger :)
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whats everyones fasination with the organizations?
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I dunno. There\'s no real point, as most of us will be fighing each other. Basically it\'ll end up like the UN, totally useless -_-
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Weirdos o.0 ...
This is evolution, join it or remain a tribe :P
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I\'d rather blow it up.
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Err ... as I said, tribal :D
Originally posted by druke
ingenious ideas, and revolutions usually happen quickly and chaoticly, lets hope this is ingenious and revolutionary
Well, you sure changed your point of view druke. That\'s your reply to the original Planeshift Council thread. :)
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Hell, we ll know how \"democracy\" Works now, don\'t we ?
forming a \"Un\" in planeshift would be like haveing a magical lump of chicken feet, newsworthy, but preety much useless.
Weirdos o.0 ...
This is evolution, join it or remain a tribe
With out order nothing can survive, without chaos nothing can evolve.
pick one.
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Don\'t you think that something inbetween total chaos(Whole life would be just a big risk) and absolute order(The Freedom would be taken) would be good. And some council of the guilds wouldn\' be to bad, although it should be very free.
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Trianas for an idea to even get somewhere near people\'s minds your gonna have to be more in-depth than that. I mean I came up with some good ones, but people shot it down, there has to be some reason that people would need this for an idea like this to pass but right now there isn\'t.
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Originally posted by Merdarion
Don\'t you think that something inbetween total chaos(Whole life would be just a big risk) and absolute order(The Freedom would be taken) would be good. And some council of the guilds wouldn\' be to bad, although it should be very free.
[rant]
There can be no compromise ! Its like saying\" iam not in the wanting of life or death, but can i have something inbetween ?\" YOU SICK, SICK, SICK ZOMBIE YOU !!!
Iam being bais here. Guess why i only GAVE YOU 2 CHOICES !!!! :P:D
now CHOOSE !! :P
[/rant]
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>.> Keep your tribals to yourself, we will have nothing to do with them!
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Originally posted by DepthBlade
>.> Keep your tribals to yourself, we will have nothing to do with them!
You are a tribe :P You\'re fanatical extremists who think that everyone who doesn\'t agree with you needs smiting :P A bit like Terrorist groups :P
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Err... xord what do we do with people who are \"good\"
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Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by DepthBlade
>.> Keep your tribals to yourself, we will have nothing to do with them!
You are a tribe :P You\'re fanatical extremists who think that everyone who doesn\'t agree with you needs smiting :P A bit like Terrorist groups :P
*grins* Call us what you want it won\'t prevent your silencing soon to come :P Like I said we won\'t take part in any council
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Do we talk about some guild idea or do we just strive about which guild is better. And to you snow_Raven, Do you really think that there is no compromise. And I would take Chaos because not getting further means falling backwards. And Depth Blade just think: Would there be any good without an evil, or better if there was no evil the good would not have much importance, and you with your fanatism are (Reminds me of George W. Bush) just hiding behind a Crusader-Massquerade.
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It does not matter why Evil exists or that because Evil exists so does good, what matters is that I must stop this Evil.
Since I am sure your so called council would try an respect everyones view, even the Evil scum, I would have no use for such a thing. In my eyes it might even verge on being Evil itself. 8o
OOC: Sounds like a Greek Counsil at a University to me. :D
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This topic has been brought up way too much. People please use the search button.
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\"With out order nothing can survive, without chaos nothing can evolve.\"
I choose both.
Also, who ever said in the council can\'t be enemy guilds?
And yes, the topic has been brought up way too much. I kinda started it, so I feel I have the right to speak more now, when others think the same :P
And god stop with that search button. grr ...
The Council will be formed in the end, with or without some of your assistance :)
From what I see, there are more people wanting it. Also, I don\'t think 3 - 5 people\'s opinion counts. ;)
EDIT
Once again ...
! 1 ! - http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thre...&boardid=18
! 2 ! - Buy Master of Orion (3 if you want), and see what\'s with that Senate over there. Some of us are, aham ... less gifted, so maybe that\'s the only way they could understand :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Annah
\"With out order nothing can survive, without chaos nothing can evolve.\"
I choose both.
Also, who ever said in the council can\'t be enemy guilds?
And yes, the topic has been brought up way too much. I kinda started it, so I feel I have the right to speak more now, when others think the same :P
And god stop with that search button. grr ...
The Council will be formed in the end, with or without some of your assistance :)
From what I see, there are more people wanting it. Also, I don\'t think 3 - 5 people\'s opinion counts. ;)
EDIT
Once again ...
! 1 ! - http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thre...&boardid=18
! 2 ! - Buy Master of Orion (3 if you want), and see what\'s with that Senate over there. Some of us are, aham ... less gifted, so maybe that\'s the only way they could understand :rolleyes:
You have my support, and yes I do know that my opinion doesn\'t make any difference but I just want you to know that I support you. And the greek culture was very rich and famous. And think of the senate of the romans, also a very succesful kind of council. And don\'t forget STAR WARS (Wich has some roman touch)
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Annah
sorry for taking your idea i didnt know it had already been proposed i would likie to start the council with you and be on the board, ill get as many people as i can to support us
Thank you
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Annah you sicko! You can\'t choose both !:P
[edit]
(ok so the life and death choice don\'t work i\'ll have to use women to drill it in to your head :P)
Lets say you have 2 women who love you and you love them both, (don\'t ask, cause i dont know either ... you lucky son of a gun you :P ) And you have to choose between the 2 of them And annah \"chooseing both\" ain\'t gonna be the brightest idea you ever came up with, but it would sure as hell be your last. :LOL:
[/edit]
Some day your inablity to make decisions will cause you to find yourself deader than a drunk animal on a busy highway. :D
j/k
a council will be useless cause no one will respect its rules, or the orders it gives, We\'ll be just fighting each other to kindom come, cause we can.
[kudos to thoese who have chosen ONE answer] :P
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lol Snow Raven :D
And yes, I can choose both. Who says I can\'t? And who\'s that person to decide that? :P * Annah the philosopher has spoken lol! *
And no, a council won\'t be useless. Because it won\'t contain all the guilds from the ps realms, it will contain only the guilds that want to benefit from it, also it will \"sure\" spice things up in the community (err you know, the thing where I am the best at). ;)
Merdarion, Trianas, thx for your support. I think we should start emailing all the guilds, to see who\'s interested and who\'s not. After, we should get starting ... :)
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acctualy snow_Raven Iknow a great many guys that would try to have both women don\'t know why though
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Hey Raven think! There\'s not just Balck or white. And what point would your so called \"Cleansing of Evil\" if all Evil was away. If you can\'t imagine -> None. And don\'t you think some council would help if something really devasting happens (Like a Guild of ammoc-running killers with more than a thousand members [I hope that that they never comes], which would just be a disadvantage. Even for the \"BAD ONES\", alone any guild would fail.
And maybe you\'ll think what happens if you take some white color and some Black, and mix them. (I think you can manage that!)
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Fact one : i am part of the cabal our mission in game is to be jerks and to be evil in short we are Evil Jerks, not your average beef jerky you get over the counter mind you.
Fact Two : if theres 100000 players running amock killing every one eals i\'d be one of them and i\'ll proly kill some of the 1000000 players also.
Fact Three : you cant choose to be good and evil at the same time. its like chooseing between wearing pants and not wearing pants , you can\'t wear \"half\" a pant as its the same as not putting on clothes or vice versa. Sure theres the \"nuetural\" charaters but their usually animals with no sense of right or wrong.
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I wish people would stop useing the Black and White comparison
NOTHING IS EVER BLACK AND WHITE!
It is however black, white, blue, red, yellow, gray, green, and every colour in between. However blue still is not white
It is how you react to these non black and white situations that determin who you are.
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lol Snow Raven.
Though, I still choose both. And yes, you can be good & evil in the same time. Tell me, what\'s good? What\'s evil? Words ...
Also, tell me, who\'re you to decide those things? 0.o
So go back hack those people :P
* EDIT *
Hatchnet I really like the way you think. I can see \"freedom\" and \"self known\" in your views ;) I think you\'ll really do well in \"Dream of the Sarukai\". We\'re looking people like you.
Check the web site - http://www.leinir.dk/dots/ and let me know :)
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sorry I\'m already a member of the knights-Templar
http://www.freewebs.com/the-knights-templar/
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Then they\'re lucky to have you aboard ;)
Ok I started sending invitation among the active guilds around. Hatchnet, you have one too, I saw you support the idea :)
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Since Annah you don\'t realize you need to empty your PM box because its right full, here is your response to the invitation.
Greetings,
Yes I imagined this would come eventually and the answer is a \"Solid No\". This is both by my members and myself. We are not going to have our actions controled what so ever, we don\'t wish to join something that will go inactive because a lack of agreements. Start your council but know this now it will have no bearing upon my guilds course of action...now or in the future.
Sincerely Mael Dosforia aka DepthBlade (Leader of Rebirth)
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Originally posted by Annah
lol Snow Raven.
Though, I still choose both. And yes, you can be good & evil in the same time. Tell me, what\'s good? What\'s evil? Words ...
Also, tell me, who\'re you to decide those things? 0.o
So go back hack those people :P
Good is an action that bennefits not only oneself but also that of others.
Evil is an action that is selfish or for ones own personal gain which involves harming other people.
(yes ive heard of the quote \" The road to hell is paved with good intentions\")
Thats my 2cents on that subject.
Besides yes you can chose the choice is yours but it only hurts you more if you don\'t choose. Yes so you can choose both but it won\'t turn out nicely also.
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err sorry I forgot to tell ya Depth that my inbox is full. I will start cleaning it these days when I\'ll have some spare time.
As for your answer, no comment. Just two things, it won\'t go inactive and -> \"Start your council.....\" -> it\'s not my council.
Good Luck to ya in the future :)
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I have to disagree with you Raven on actions being either good or evil.
Imagine it as a spectrum with good(white) on one end and evil(black) on the other, with neutral(grey) in the middle. Now an example: A paladin slayes acerial killer to protect an inocent child. Killing no matter what the reason is a black action. However the reason for the black action is to protect the child a white action which makes the overall action grey. Yet stoping the killer is a blue (noble) act which puts the overall act into the good side of the spectrum. However if the Paladin had slayed the killer for a red (revenge) or purple (selfish) reason the overall act would be evil does that make it a little easyer to understand?
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Ok, this is becoming scary 0.o
Hatchnet looks like ... me, some time ago :|
I totally agree with your words btw.
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What can I say great minds think alike ;)
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
I have to disagree with you Raven on actions being either good or evil.
Imagine it as a spectrum with good(white) on one end and evil(black) on the other, with neutral(grey) in the middle. Now an example: A paladin slayes acerial killer to protect an inocent child. Killing no matter what the reason is a black action. However the reason for the black action is to protect the child a white action which makes the overall action grey. Yet stoping the killer is a blue (noble) act which puts the overall act into the good side of the spectrum. However if the Paladin had slayed the killer for a red (revenge) or purple (selfish) reason the overall act would be evil does that make it a little easyer to understand?
It is the duty of a paladin to protect. Thus killing a serial killer is his duty which is to protect innocents. Even if he kills a serieal killer for selfish gains or vengence his actions are still \"good\" because it bennefits the would be victims.
If he had killed a normal (assume innocent) person his actions will be considered evil as he murdered a contributing(lets also assume) member of society in cold blood.
if an action still \"bennefits\" other \"innocent\" people his actions are thus \"good\"
However iam human,and i can be wrong.
p.s.
i have to agree with annah here the steel temps have caught themselves a big one.
[edit] ho no, iam becoming a darklar (sp?) i think we should just make closeing statements and be done with the subject
Aslo it seems i have Hi-jacked this thread ! yah go me :] [/edit]
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Ok, since this is becoming a little confusing for others, I will give you another example Snow Raven.
It\'s the years of the crusades. Many died in a war started to eradicate the ones they considered \"evil\", who weren\'t pure. But for the other side, the ones who started the crusades were considered the \"evil that must be killed\". So after all, who\'re the good ones? Who\'re the evil ones? After your way of thinking, they can\'t be both good or evil right? :)
And I can give you plenty more examples.
Tip, just look at US vs muslim terrorism. It\'s evil being a terrorist? They\'re just following their religion, were is said: \"destroy the unworthy ones, kill the ones who steps in front of our believes etc.\"
US also have their \"evil\" (considered by you) points. Like the thought of controlling the oil areas. But they consider it a good point for them. Though, this killed thousands of people ;) ...
Err, ok this is enough. ^_^
* EDIT *
Draklar is a different person. You can\'t \"become\" Draklar. And no, you didn\'t hijack the thread. We were just discussing.
People know the main title here is PLANESHIFT COUNCIL :P
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The duty of a Paladin is to protect the inocent yes. However that does not stop him from being human which means he can hold a grudge be greedy ext.
also good people can benifit from evil actions you took one part of my post and used it out of context; killing is evil period no matter who does it or for what reason. So killing to protect some one is still evil however good people benifit from it as I said befor nothing is ever black or white ther is a quote I use quite often though I can\'t remember where I got it from at the moment.
\"No man has the right to take the life of another\"
and I often add:
\" Yet is it not a greater sin to alow one to suffer because you refuse to sin?\"
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A person that has a problem with me and seeks to solve it should come and talk to me directly. Hiding behind a council, I believe, is a sign of weakness and cowardness, two traits that I despise and that most likely will encourage me to solve our problem through brutal force rather than with nobility.
Prove that there is more to this council and I\'ll reconsider.
Tybalt
OOC: When did this become a discussion about alignments? I hate those :(
I got your PM Annah and will transmit the message to my comrades ;) What rules are there in the council and are there any requirements for being allowed to join? Good luck!
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Realy the disscusion of a counsil and how it would affect the different alighnments is a disscusion about alighnments because that counsil must decide on which kinds of situations it will take action, furthermor it must be determined how much legal and moral authority it will be able to exercise and untill this game is developed to the point where such a counsil can take action such a counsil is actualy pointless. And Annah I\'m sure my guilds leaders will agree; furthermore it is their choice not yours who their diplomats are.
And for those of you who still think things are simply black and white chew on this:
\"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view\"--- Obi Wan Kenobi; Star Wars: Return of the Jedi---
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Originally posted by snow_RAveN
Originally posted by Annah
lol Snow Raven.
Though, I still choose both. And yes, you can be good & evil in the same time. Tell me, what\'s good? What\'s evil? Words ...
Also, tell me, who\'re you to decide those things? 0.o
So go back hack those people :P
Good is an action that bennefits not only oneself but also that of others.
Evil is an action that is selfish or for ones own personal gain which involves harming other people.
(yes ive heard of the quote \" The road to hell is paved with good intentions\")
Thats my 2cents on that subject.
Besides yes you can chose the choice is yours but it only hurts you more if you don\'t choose. Yes so you can choose both but it won\'t turn out nicely also.
1.So in your opinion it would be good if you give Faction A Infos that means the death of Faction B (example: You know of a weak point in the defense of a town, sell that info to an MOB allowing them to sneak in, slaghter hundreds of helpless guys and raiding the town (which would be a benefit for the MOB), that would be good.
2.So you said that evil would be, being selfish. So if a MOB got into someone\'s, because a guy told them the weak points of town defense, hometown slaughtered anybody (his Girlfriend maybe?) and he\'s pursuing that guy, to take revenge. Would you be able to call that bad(and if you look closer others come to a benefit).
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Looks like Snow Ravens getting chewed up on this one
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\"...furthermore it is their choice not yours who their diplomats are.\"
Not really. You see, if they choose someone, and I don\'t want to speak with that person, it\'s useless to be named a diplomat. I chose you to be a diplomat in my eyes. Of course, they might not consider you one, but still, you are.
Yes, is complicated but true :P
And also, in this stage of the game, a council is useless, but think logically. We have something established for when the game will fully support this ;)
So, that\'s why we should start from now.
* EDIT *
Ok, I will go send an email to Venge as I promised, and watch a movie. Then I guess I will go to sleep lol. Tomorrow I\'ll make a full description of the Planeshift Council, its roles, policies and stuff. Good Night guys.
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I haven\'t and will not read through all the posts, too lazy. Keep that in mind if I post something already stated.
I for one think the idea of a council is a good idea. I believe it adds to the RP atmosphere of the guild. However there should be a reason beyond democracy/diplomacy to join it. Take the UN for example, since it\'s been stated as an example, they can place embargos or they can send in peacekeeping forces.
Few people will join something if it doesn\'t offer them something. There should be an advantage alluring enough that people will willingly join and there should be penalties that bind the council together. What\'s to stop someone from going against a council decision.
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Well thought Aendar :P
Things on the list that could be offered: money, items, places to stay, a new position in the society etc.
And good to have you on this side :)
PS - Everyone is welcome to post what they think is good to be given to the new potential members. Of course, they have to benefit to join.
Some new ideas, came up in my mind too. I will write them down together with the full info tomorrow.
Now ... good night! :D
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
I haven\'t and will not read through all the posts, too lazy. Keep that in mind if I post something already stated.
I for one think the idea of a council is a good idea. I believe it adds to the RP atmosphere of the guild. However there should be a reason beyond democracy/diplomacy to join it. Take the UN for example, since it\'s been stated as an example, they can place embargos or they can send in peacekeeping forces.
Few people will join something if it doesn\'t offer them something. There should be an advantage alluring enough that people will willingly join and there should be penalties that bind the council together. What\'s to stop someone from going against a council decision.
No its not so much wanting something from it, and yes there is no way to enforce it sticking together and I doubt it will stay active. The fact of the matter is if I joined this council and as many know my guild\'s goals are already in place and never ending. So if say this council decides DB\'s guild shouldn\'t be able to do this to this guild. We must not allow that to happen. (It will turn into Star Wars: Episode I, so fast and I will be the federation army. Except I won\'t have all them people but I also won\'t flip on my back and die either.) Really just seems pointless for my Chaotic Good guild to join such a thing.
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No Depth, it won\'t be pointless.
Err, just ... just wait until tomorrow when I will fully explain how the system will work. Because most of you kinda didn\'t understand anything. You just think it\'s a \"big\" guild that controls everything 0.o And that IS wrong.
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I am skeptical about this whole thing as well. For TMG, we shouldn\'t have Depth\'s problem. But I don\'t know how this will work. I guess Ill wait for Annahs big thread, most likely I will give it a shot.
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
I haven\'t and will not read through all the posts, too lazy. Keep that in mind if I post something already stated.
I for one think the idea of a council is a good idea. I believe it adds to the RP atmosphere of the guild. However there should be a reason beyond democracy/diplomacy to join it. Take the UN for example, since it\'s been stated as an example, they can place embargos or they can send in peacekeeping forces.
Few people will join something if it doesn\'t offer them something. There should be an advantage alluring enough that people will willingly join and there should be penalties that bind the council together. What\'s to stop someone from going against a council decision.
Many guilds would disagree on when to send in these \"forces\". Especially when guilds will range from lawfull good to chaotic evil
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I\'m torn, as I said in Annah\'s previous post(s), it would be a good idea if it were to be worked out correctly. So, I think before anyone makes a definite decision right now they should wait until Annah get\'s everything worked out and posted.
But as Aendar said, what benefits would guilds get, I can see some small guilds getting something from it, but well established self-dependent guilds? I don\'t see OI having much use for a council...I\'ll wait and see.
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I agree it could be a great thing if made right. There are many things that need to be worked out though.
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yes i have understood that from the start , even though my guild has dibanded i am starting another though i cannot revile anything yet
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I\'m not going to read all of this, because I don\'t care, and there is a lot to it.
You are a gathering of self-important guild leaders who think they get a say outside of their guilds.
This organisation is pointless.
How do you determine what guilds are \"important\".
Seems conceited to say your own guild is \"important\" to other people, but that\'s just my opinion.
If this council is ever realised, I hope it falls to ruin.
One council is enough in my opinion, and the Octarchs are that very council.
It\'s amusing to see how highly you think of yourselves as leaders.
The last thing we need is bunch of \'elitists\' telling everyone what to do.
Edit: This may be a slight flame admittedly... but it is my opinion... censor it if you really have to Aendar, but I really don\'t like this idea.
Any disrepect is intended for your characters, not your persons. So don\'t take this personally OOC.
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Adeli, you really need to read before making judgements like this...that is definately not the point of this whole thing, and Annah sent an invitation to the active guilds (active as in active within community). Not the \"best\".
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So people being busy for a little while means that they are not \"important\"?
Using that very word...
\"important\"
Denotes you feel you are better than someone, if not everyone. This in turn, proclaims you as an elitist. My judgement was based on the \"council member\'s\" own terminology.
Thus it was well grounded.
If you all said active, fine, I still wouldn\'t like it... but my judgement would be different. Instead they say \"important\", this is arrogant.
Just curious, did Armeen get an invitation? If so, did he accept?
I approve of Tybalt\'s attitude.
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Originally posted by Adeli
\"important\"
Denotes you feel you are better than someone, if not everyone. This in turn, proclaims you as an elitist.
Thus it was well grounded.
No, I can easily say that the developers are more important in the development of Planeshift then you are...and in no way am I saying that they are better then you, or anyone (though they very well could be, but that\'s not the point). It works the same way, a guild who is active within the community and shapes the way things are around here, is important. Not that they are better then the guild that only posts on their boards and does not interact with everyone else.
If you\'re going to bitch about little things, you should at least know what\'s going on, and obviously since you got the whole concept behind the council wrong in the first place, you do not.
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In short: This idea must and will fail.
There have been pleanty of attempts to build things like this. All these cases have something in common - Annah and failure. You should have noticed by now that not everyone likes this idea. If all \"important\"guilds wont join this, it just cant work. A player formed council and player made rules may be \"fun\" for the councilors, not mortal players.
I fail to see the point of this council. What will it do? Rule n00b guilds? Stop people form doing \"bad\" things? Make rules everyone should live after? This is realy crappy in my opinion. An interesting fantasy world is a dynamic world with fuss in it. And let me say - war is a fun thing(not in RL of course).
Another thing i fail to see is how this council will affect things. Lets say Cabal is spreading pain and suffer over the land... what will the council do? Tell them not to do these evil things? Will they obey? I think not.
If you sent your Councils army to kill them the council would turn into a simple alliance of good.
P.S. Sorry for grammer and spelling, but im not going to correct that.
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as CRJ stated the seems to be a council for the greater good, which is kinda off for a evil roleplayers, AO is currently discussing this in our forums though, so dont take my opinoin as our voice
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I\'ve seen people come up with this same idea in so many different game communities... they all talk about it enthusiastically like they\'re the first to ever think up such a great idea :P shame it never, ever lasts.
It\'s a good idea, don\'t get me wrong... but taking part in this will be a waste of your time in the end, trust me.
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Sitting behind a computer, palying games is always waste of time (That\'s what it\'s for!), so what could make wasted time more wasted time
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Good point Merdarion! If you\'re having fun while it lasts, does it really matter in the end if it amounts to nothing? A council could be fun, even if you do not like the idea. Then it gives you a chance to plan to take it down, in my opinion, setting things up and tearing them down are a lot more fun then any game could be.
No one sees the point because it has not been posted yet.