PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Annah on November 14, 2004, 07:57:26 pm
-
.: THE COUNCIL :.
As I said before, PlaneShift is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game that fully supports guilds and their actions towards others. Just think, with the evolution of the game, guilds will also evolve, others will come, in the end being hundreds. And what do you think a world with hundreds of guilds, which have their own goals, means? Simply said, chaos. A council, formed from a number of these guilds, can be formed to respond in front of all PlaneShift guilds.
Even so, this is not the goal of it. It is created to form a new civilized community, to maintain a fragile balance between its members, politically , economically and not last, socially .
What this means? 1st of all, it?s the best choice of new guilds of the realm, that wants to grow quicker, that wants to have a stable economical situation.
Every action taken inside it, it will be based on a vote system.
Politically
The Council has nothing to do with alignments. Its members can be ?good aligned? guilds, as well as ?evil aligned? guilds. It will not interfere in the wars between any guilds or alliances. Though, its members, when needed can cast a vote, and if it will succeed, they will be defended/helped in their actions with money or military support. Wars between two or more members that are in the Council are not its concern. They have to deal with it alone.
Also, it will not interfere in the internal problems of its members.
Economically
One of the most important aspect of it, it?s economically aspect. After all, most of the guilds will join for their own benefits. Every new member will be helped to achieve a relative stable economic situation. Trade routes will be created, between chosen places, with caravans that will be guarded among their journeys.
Socially
The condition of all the members of every guild that is a member of the Council will be improved, having their own rights in the society. Slavery is forbidden. They will receive new houses and new incomes.
Though, all these have their price. It?s forbidden not to obey a law of the Council, which was voted by the majority. Doing so, an embargo on that guild will be created. More actions from one guild like this, will led to its departure from the Council. Also, a tax system will be created, and what will be gathered will be used to help new guilds of the Council.
The Council will be led by a guild, chosen through a vote system. The time it will stay at the leadership, will be discussed in the future. Also, a guild can be at the leadership only for 3 consecutive times. Though, after a period of time, it can be reelected if votes will be ?on its side?.
As Acraig said, \"it would be a nice idea to do this in the \'theme\' of the government of the game as explained\" here - http://www.planeshift.it/setting_government.html
If the idea will be disliked, they will be two separated things.
In the end what could I say more, everyone joins it because it has to benefit on all sides. And what the hell, it will sure be fun. Do you think is waste of time? Well, I will end with some quotes:
Originally posted by Merdarion
Sitting behind a computer, palying games is always waste of time (That\'s what it\'s for!), so what could make wasted time more wasted time
---
Originally posted by Kiern
Good point Merdarion! If you\'re having fun while it lasts, does it really matter in the end if it amounts to nothing? A council could be fun, even if you do not like the idea. Then it gives you a chance to plan to take it down, in my opinion, setting things up and tearing them down are a lot more fun then any game could be.
Farewell my friends!
* EDIT *
I preffered to add this after. Every guild is welcome to join the Council, at least at the beginning. With only one condition: activity.
-
all i know is i want Dream to get involed with this idea ( i support annah =p)
-
Good luck, then. IMO it\'s still silly to waste such a good idea at this point in time. Most of what you describe to be the Council\'s responsibilities (caravan guarding, etc) will not be implemented for years.
Time will tell just how many people are prepared to keep this Council active for so long with nothing to actually do in it.
-
Thanks princess.
And as a response -> tell me, what actually do guilds right now? ;)
* EDIT *
This is not a waste of a good idea, because it will kinda last until then. We all need some devoted people working on it :)
-
Originally posted by Moogie
Time will tell just how many people are prepared to keep this Council active for so long with nothing to actually do in it.
Um, Mogura, you do realize that\'s what we (as in the community) have been doing for a few years now.
Good luck Annah.
-
Thanks Kiern.
And btw, this council is not = Annah. It\'s ... ours, to all of us :)
Also forgot to say something:
Everyone post here your ideas, and if they are good and more will agree with them, they will be implemented.
With these said, for the future! :) hehe
-
Not really... guilds stick together because of friendship. Alot of guilds have their own roleplay forums. Some just run around crystal collecting. Sure, there are guilds that just don\'t do anything while they\'re waiting for CB (Followers of Aliathi is a prime example), but they become inactive, and people lose interest in them (again, FoA).
Apologies if I\'ve misunderstood somewhere, but I didn\'t read that the Council was to be formed for friendships, or to do any of the things that Guilds keep themselves occupied with at this time.
I\'m not bashing the idea, because I generally do think it\'s well thought out and could someday be a useful addition to the community. The only reason I\'m against it is because the idea will be wasted.
-
Don\'t be affraid, just remember I\'ll always take care of it. I promise it will never fall down :P
-
I see your point Mogura, although not to brag or anything like that...but I\'ve kept The BISM up since march 2002 and have never gone inactive (much, much longer then any guild of \"friends\" ), while not being formed by friendships but by business. Sure, I\'m friends with the rest of the council now (even after many have come and gone), but when they came along I didn\'t know a thing about them.
All I\'m saying is it\'s possible as long as there is some person(s) willing to put up with all that comes along.
-
Point taken, Kiern. :) Let\'s hope this also survives the wait then.
-
I agree with Mogura that the idea is good but maybe used a little early in the process. We might both be wrong though :)
Anyway, you talked about taxes and that the money would go to new guilds of the council.
What compensation do the older guilds get for this?
-
Is there a website up yet? or forums? People might be more willing to contribute Ideas there
-
I will not conform to some rules derived from the non-sense of a majority!
I can think for myself and I can trust myself to a certain extent, but to trust a statistical vote\'s sanity?!? INSANE.
While this may come handy sometimes, I refuse to be any part of it or it\'s lnterpolations. If I would belive people themselves could care to the Balance, I\'d retire to TC immediately, life\'s goal reached, but, of course, that\'s not the case and never will be. Humanoids -,-
-
Originally posted by Annah
Don\'t be affraid, just remember I\'ll always take care of it. I promise it will never fall down :P
I am going to write this down and the day you realize what a waste this really is, or the day it is destroyed or the day it just flops on its own..I will be sure to quote this. :)
Nothing is forever, no guild/orginization/alliance will last for eternity all good things come to end. This I hope burns to the ground quickly so we can ever forget such a union existed.
I predict it will be as useful as some of our RL councils, and if you ever do get to a point where it can stand on its two feet..won\'t take long for corruption to set in and then *grins* thats where I will come in..
-
Originally posted by DepthBlade
I predict it will be as useful as some of our RL councils, and if you ever do get to a point where it can stand on its two feet..won\'t take long for corruption to set in and then *grins* thats where I will come in..
ahh, so I corrupt it, which gives you an excuse to blow it up. :D Great plan.
-
Aren\'t evil guilds (not specified), in most, designed to create chaos and disorder.
The rules and vetoes coming out of the council will directly depend on the balance between good and evil guilds inside the council.
How are you going to fix corruption?
Those are first ideas coming into my head, but it (my head) only works on about 60% power now.
-
I for one will try to make it work. Count me in Annah. If it fails, oh well, it can\'t hurt to try. Anyone else for sure?
-
Annah, Annah, Annah what you described in your post is not a council...... I repeat NOT A COUNCIL! it is a glorified protection agency; your council would be a waist; less effective than even the leage of nations was. It is pointless a council would have to get involved in the affairs of its members to be able to have any effect at all this mean mediation of guild conflicts support when asked for for intternal problems as well as protection for all merchants not just those involved with guilds who are members of the council.
Before you try to do this I suggest you look over documents which created similar institutions ex. the Geneva treaty and the U.S. constitution (there are others that I can not think of off the top of my head)
-
I don\'t think modeling it after RL is a good idea.
*imagine*
diplomat: Some force of evil is attacking our lands We need your help
council cheif: That can wait we\'er planing the international save the gooblakc day.
diplomat: But sir, they have allready burned down farm lands and ...
council cheif: OK, OK we\'lll think about it
_____________
6 months later
Council cheif: Right we\'er here, Eah ? the war ended already? There problem solved.
*/imagine*
-
which is precicly the problem they had with the leage of nations NO TEETH and it is also the problem with Annah\'s idea. Also a very large nuber of RL councils do work take the UN and NATO for example. Ohter good examples incude the United States and the United Kingdoms. That is why I said to examine the documentations of the conventions that created these types of working councils. Do not do as you did in the previous thread Snow Raven and take a bad example and hold it up as a universal one.
-
Well, I talked to the other two leaders of my guild and they said to give it a chance. I like this idea a lot so, yes, Helmora Velsha will join. I really love the idea of players putting somthing togeather for a game instead of relying on the devs.
-
Depth, I created Black Order in 2001, as a clan for Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption, and as a guild for Planeshift. I left it because I needed a change, but do you think I am not supporting it? Ah btw, check Kada\'s site. Who\'s the 1st on the Guilds list? And trust me, you\'ll see it there over 3 years also. If really you want it, some things can last forever. ;)
And Hatchnet, it is not \"glorified protection agency\". It\'s a, ... let\'s say \"place\" where guilds join to benefit. Like I said, everything is done be a vote system, and that thing with the military support, maybe it will win the votes, maybe not. It was just an example. Also, I didn\'t try to copy UN, EU or others. Those are \"protective agencies\".
The Red Monk, those are ideas we\'ll have to think about. We\'ll try to find something that will interest major guilds as well. Like I said, this is still in development, so any idea is very welcome.
Well, for now let\'s just wait until more will come and post their interest about joining it. In 1 - 2 days we\'ll see what guilds there are, and we\'ll start creating a web site & forums.
-
Good idea Annah.
This will endanger some guilds though. Those guilds which cannot stand such alliances because of their corrupting or chaotic nature (like thieves, spies and corrupting evil forces) will be against this union.
If this Council creates a situation for those guilds, then you should also be expecting some sort of \"Counter Council\", composed of those who are being harmed by it.
This might result in a cute little war ^^, between those who live preying on the weak and those who gather to protect each other.
\"A path without obstacles leads to an end without glory.\" It wouldn\'t be fun if there was none against the idea. Those who have joined so far are capable people and might hold this idea together against what hardships there will be.
Good luck with it.
-
Annah there is a very big difference between a protection agency for merchants (your council) and an international peacekeeping orginization (United Nations)
And just for the record the UN does not simply protect its members it helps to create peace bettween them unlike your \"council\". In short the UN was created to prevent another World War not to simply protect its members and is very effective at doing so. So it is a very good example for what a council of Planeshift should be.
-
\"protection agency for merchants \"
You\'ve got it all wrong :( . All I did was giving examples. And yes, I also try to create a ballance between the guilds. I don\'t preffer to name it peace, because having good aligned guilds, as well evil aligned, it just can\'t be possible.
Just know that what you\'ve said it\'s already implemented, but shaped for the world of Planeshift.
* EDIT *
Err, stop saying \"your council\". Because is not mine, is everyone\'s :P
Also, I don\'t want to loose a strong \"ally\" like you in this, so maybe you should come to IRC now to explain you a few missunderstandings.
Planeshift Fan Channel:
Server - Quakenet
Channel - #planeshift
Waiting you there ;)
-
Peace between guilds IS NOT a thing we\'re looking for on Planeshift.
I don\'t think that a council which would try to stop war would be well seen in the eyes of the players -_- (I agree that having a peaceful religion and some peaceful people around is cool, but not a whole council of guilds...).
The Council is fine, stop comparing it to RL stuff :P.
-
Originally posted by Sangwa
Peace between guilds IS NOT a thing we\'re looking for on Planeshift.
I don\'t think that a council which would try to stop war would be well seen in the eyes of the players -_- (I agree that having a peaceful religion and some peaceful people around is cool, but not a whole council of guilds...).
The Council is fine, stop comparing it to RL stuff :P.
lol I don\'t think any council would even be able to stop a war, even if its power was astounding.
I think what really bugs me into the matter is the whole theory of things turning sour within this council and then it starts acting only to benefit itself. Thats one of my biggest problems with joining a council, paranoia ^^
-
Will the ruling members have the power of veto?
If so, I will be proven right, this council will become a UN and nothing will be accomplished.
Recall the Cold War: nothing was accomplished by the UN, why? Because the US and USSR kept using their veto against each other, as a result nothing came to pass. It was a brilliant waste of time.
I eagerly await when this council becomes like that, for I shall be right, and the council shall fall. On a note, even if every guild joined this council, I\'d go freelance.
- Tyralus Shadowdancer
-
Adeli just because the greedy people are the ones with the power in RL does not mean that we have to let them have the power in PS and for those of you who don\'t want to compare to real life then you are going to be some of the worst roleplayers in the game because rp is based on real life while yet it is apart from it this means that it will mimic real life so yes we will have our Hittlers our Binladens our Stalins our Hussains as well as our Washintons our Churchhills our Lincolns and our Elizabeths.
Sorry if I mispellt any of the names
-
I have discussed this idea with my friends in Ashes and we have come to the conclusion that this council really is nothing for us. We like to do what we want and have no need for decisions being made for us in any way. Also we don\'t know what benefits we would get from this organisation and from paying taxes that go to helping new guilds. Maybe it is good for other guilds but from the description so far it is obvious that our guild would come out the losers.
Hopefully this organisation will not get in our way but if it does, then so be it...
Good luck!
-
I think it is an ineresting idea, but I don\'t know if I think it is a good idea yet. The major problem I have with it is that ONE guild gets to be in control of all the rest of the guilds. I think that the council should be made of people from many if not all the guilds in it.
-
Sorry Annah no more help from me Myrtl\'s official stance is now one of opposition see you on the battlefield
-
Hatchnet ill see u there 2 =p, Wow even in PS u still cant get away from the UN. Well every Clan(guild) does have there choice but the smart choice is to join. Like ive said to annah \" you have my support\" Lava where are u? lol
-
mmm Getting battle ready so soon, when we haven\'t even seen the council do anything wrong yet?..meh!
-
Yes, role play is based on real life - meaning that we should follow real life as a reference and not as a set of laws to be strictly followed -_-. It\'s not mimicking it\'s more like writing the history anew with different variables ^^.
How can there be any Hittlers, Husseins, etc if it\'s a different world with different laws and different ways of living? There might be people inspired or similar to some Real Life characters but they should never be compared to them, because it\'s dumb to compare fake to real.
I don\'t know, but defying a Council of guilds might not be the smartest thing to be done ^^. Not alone at least, and since the Mercenaries are in (I think so) you might have some extra trouble :D.
-
We are in it for now, we\'ll see how it works and if it brings us any profit. :P
-
Originally posted by Sangwa
Yes, role play is based on real life - meaning that we should follow real life as a reference and not as a set of laws to be strictly followed -_-. It\'s not mimicking it\'s more like writing the history anew with different variables ^^.
How can there be any Hittlers, Husseins, etc if it\'s a different world with different laws and different ways of living? There might be people inspired or similar to some Real Life characters but they should never be compared to them, because it\'s dumb to compare fake to real.
I don\'t know, but defying a Council of guilds might not be the smartest thing to be done ^^. Not alone at least, and since the Mercenaries are in (I think so) you might have some extra trouble :D.
First of all what do you think role play is?
Seconed are you not such a character that is based on either the terrorist or tyranical persona type. Furthermore the players who do use these personalty types will use many of the same tactics and stratagems as the reallife personas.
Third we are not defying them we are opposing them. And when the time for action comes I seriously doubt we will stand alone; esspescialy with the large number of evil guilds Annah is courting.
OOC: Aren\'t you being a bit out of character for a evil mainiac by supporting this? Also I would like to ask you a favor concerning the character history of my alter ego.
Edit I just realized Websters dictionary does not have an actual definnition of the word mimic just refering you to the definition of copy which is contrary to the descriptions of the remainder of the mimic word groop.
In essense to mimic is to moc or recreate imperfictly the same as what you described as being what rp is.
-
\'eh :)
Hatchnet, well I wouldn\'t count on so many evil guilds as you said. Do some background checking 1st about me :P
And I think Sangwa is supporting the idea from friendship, you know, that thing that is beyond a guild :)
Also, great to see there\'s already opposition. Like you said, this is roleplaying. ;)
When something appears, there will be always people who support it, and also, people who will oppose it. That\'s the way it goes. Don\'t worry, it will sure be fun ^^
-
Ok, I tried to read all of your posts (with my bad english and some words or expressions not in the dictionnary...) and I saw a lot of problems shown by you all. Finally I\'m enough in the mind of Hatchnet and redmonk in general...
But personaly I even think there is a problem in the Annah\'s proposition : I think economical and political matter must be separated. And moreover I can\'t see why the councils member guild must pay to decide the future of Yliakum...
And then why looking for a so big project ! Why won\'t we first create this concil to keep the contact between guilds ? Then why can\'t we create an economical independant department ?
I really dislike the idea of be forced to come in Yliakum to pay my bill !!! I like my freedom and so... but that wont mean I wouldn\'t give some money to help newbees or new guilds... But that must be my choice ! With my neutral position I don\'t want to force my members to pay any bill and so even if I like this idea I won\'t accept to be part of this council... sorry
I think there will be a lot of guilds that would do the same choice as ashes\' choice or mine so I hope you\'ll change your way to see that cause its a good idea in background.
Please tell me what will be the future of the council. And good luck Annah
-
Wouldn\'t good guilds, according to their principles, absolutely refuse to cooperate with evil guilds and vice versa? And wouldn\'t evil guilds become hostile towards any neutral guilds that cooperate with good guilds?
What I am trying to say is that enemy guilds(at least those good versus evil) will never work together just for the sake of profit. By doing so they would betray their own ideals.
-
But personaly I even think there is a problem in the Annah\'s proposition : I think economical and political matter must be separated. And moreover I can\'t see why the councils member guild must pay to decide the future of Yliakum...
Economical and political matters are two separated things. Sorry, if I wasn\'t very clear in the post.
And about the payment, don\'t know, maybe you\'re right. I think it\'s a good idea not to be a requirment. Though, some funds must be raised somehow, if you\'ll find the right way besides this, you\'re welcome to post it here :tup:
And then why looking for a so big project ! Why won\'t we first create this concil to keep the contact between guilds ? Then why can\'t we create an economical independant department ?
Err, I think that\'s what is doing atm. I don\'t really think the game is playable, and it has features implemented through we can do what it was said. ;)
Thanks for your post fken, and as I said it a million times until now, that\'s why this post exists here , to discuss how it will be the best. I didn\'t make a couple of ideas and then just \"sell\" it to you. We are here to talk ...
So, every idea is welcome.
Wouldn\'t good guilds, according to their principles, absolutely refuse to cooperate with evil guilds and vice versa? And wouldn\'t evil guilds become hostile towards any neutral guilds that cooperate with good guilds?
err, I could be evil and answer you with simple questions, like \"why do we exist\" and stuffs like these. But, I am not :P
The Council is beyond the alignments, I said that clear. Why can\'t you see it this way? It\'s not hard you know. After all, good, evil ... just simple words. They\'re relative. They\'re just using different ways to reach the same goal. ;)
Of course, I won\'t see in the Council members like guilds that burns everything they encounter. Anyway, we\'ll talk some other time on IRC about this subject, I can speak for days :D
Anyway, thx again for the replies. In the end, I hope we\'ll reach to some reasonable laws & things like these.
-
Third we are not defying them we are opposing them. And when the time for action comes I seriously doubt we will stand alone; esspescialy with the large number of evil guilds Annah is courting.
More likely I\'ll attack you while you\'re busy taking that action ;)
-
Or dig yourself a hole and hide so that your meatshields can do all the fighting....either one eh Xor :D
-
Originally posted by Waylander
Or dig yourself a hole and hide so that your meatshields can do all the fighting....either one eh Xor :D
I\'ll = I\'ll order the others to :)
-
Originally posted by Xordan
Originally posted by Waylander
Or dig yourself a hole and hide so that your meatshields can do all the fighting....either one eh Xor :D
I\'ll = I\'ll order the others to :)
Why not fight me yourself you coward?
-
Why not fight me yourself you coward?
because he is cabal.
-
oh Hatchnet, your anger only fuels the might of Cabal.
-
Originally posted by Kuiper7986
oh Hatchnet, your anger only fuels the might of Cabal.
Let them come I will not stand to see the peacefull an inocent harmed!
-
Hatchnet, you must be new around here ^^. Well, let me warn you then. Cabal = Annoying evil that likes being insulted and has no sense of honor, glory or thruth.
Maybe some guild/group of people could dedicate some of their time to raise funds for the Council. Maybe a merchant guild could be asked to open a trade route/shop that would benefit the council.
Or maybe a group of people would go around stealing stuff and then-- wait... nevermind that ^^.
What I mean is: it would possibly be more effective to have something dedicated to raising funds. Of course guilds could donate if they wanted to...
-
Actually, I need some practising fodder ;) I look forward to sending you to the deathrealm.
-
Originally posted by Sangwa
Maybe some guild/group of people could dedicate some of their time to raise funds for the Council. Maybe a merchant guild could be asked to open a trade route/shop that would benefit the council.
Or maybe a group of people would go around stealing stuff and then-- wait... nevermind that ^^.
What I mean is: it would possibly be more effective to have something dedicated to raising funds. Of course guilds could donate if they wanted to...
Hmm...
Guild -> money to Council
Me -> member of Council
Money -> Me
Great Idea!
-
thats the way to go tbh get rich = buy items = the best
-
I like the idea, it might not be perfect, but we cant discuss it to perfect either, when we have a set of rules for the council it will all be waiting if they really can work in PS. Maybe it will all fall apart, maybe it will not.
Also nicel, the idea of guilds being against it, and assasinatinc high \"council members\". Iw tould make ik very real. Just like here, in the real world :)
-
Originally posted by Xordan
Actually, I need some practising fodder ;) I look forward to sending you to the deathrealm.
Come dance the dance of steel with me ignorant cabali!
(perhaps we should take this to the roleplay board Xordan)
-
I like the idea, it might not be perfect, but we cant discuss it to perfect either
Good, that\'s why we\'re here :)
Well, I think we\'ve solved the funds problem right? ;)
And Hatchnet, this is the true roleplaying part of the forums :P
-
Originally posted by Annah
The Council is beyond the alignments, I said that clear. Why can\'t you see it this way? It\'s not hard you know. After all, good, evil ... just simple words. They\'re relative. They\'re just using different ways to reach the same goal. ;)
Of course, I won\'t see in the Council members like guilds that burns everything they encounter. Anyway, we\'ll talk some other time on IRC about this subject, I can speak for days :D
If good and evil is just different methods to achieve the same goals is a very interesting philosophic matter, and from a certain point of view it might well be true. But I won\'t discuss this here. The question is: Would the members of a good guild, in character, admit that their goals are similiar to the goals of an evil guild? Isn\'t it a part of their roleplaying to be bitter enemies?
Yes, Annah. Your idea about the council is beyond the alignments. But you will have to find members that also is beyond the alignments if it is to remain that way. It would surely work for only neutral guilds but it will take something extra to make it work for good and evil guilds too. Good luck to any good or evil guilds that might try to join this council and still stay true to your ideals, you will need it.
-
Originally posted by Annah
And Hatchnet, this is the true roleplaying part of the forums :P
this is (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10660&boardid=15&styleid=3&sid=e87633494bfa2f1afdf5abaa7f7051d4)Originally posted by Hatchnet
Come dance the dance of steel
That lad is destined for glory *nods*
I\'d say council between guilds is quite silly... but since I can recall only two PS organisations that truly were guilds and only one left is Arcane Order... I guess you can\'t make it any worse :P
- Swords
-
1st of all, the council is growing, which is a very good thing :)
2nd, I really really want to know what\'s the other guild Drak. And why would you say only those are guilds? ^^
-
Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Hatchnet
Come dance the dance of steel
That lad is destined for glory *nods*
- Swords
i agree :D
[accent = brit ww2 Commander]
Its nice to know that your willing to bite the bullet, your name \"Sir\" will forever go down in infamy as the 1st sorry sod who failed to kill xord , for that i salute you.
*gives salute*
[/accent = brit ww2 Commander]
I\'ll tell your mother that you died like a man :P
p.s.
Yeah, remember folks Heros (or the sorry guy that leads the charge) die 1st :D
-
Hatchnet, you should rather help those whose lives have been destroyed by the Cabal, then running into the knife. What point would your fanatic good anligment have (for which I really look up to you) if you would stay half of the time on DR.
I think we shoud wait for CB before any decision is made.
-
Hatchnet, you should rather help those whose lives have been destroyed by the Cabal, then running into the knife. What point would your fanatic good anligment have (for which I really look up to you) if you would stay half of the time on DR.
I think we shoud wait for CB before any decision is made.
-
Originally posted by Merdarion
Hatchnet, you should rather help those whose lives have been destroyed by the Cabal, then running into the knife. What point would your fanatic good anligment have (for which I really look up to you) if you would stay half of the time on DR.
How can you fight evil lest you confront it ?
Besides he shall need to be powerfull indeed to even stand a chance against me.
-
Besides he shall need to be powerfull indeed to even stand a chance against me.
haha, you really think you\'re very powerful aye? Show me a little of that power m8 :]
And trust me, they are way over your guild, so don\'t make sudden enemies right now ^^
Anyway, the Cabal will face the Dream of the Sarukai if needed. We are not a force to be ignored :P
* EDIT *
No double posts pls.
Thx.
-
Skill, courage, intelligence; these are the things that make a man powerful Annah not money or how many men you have at your disposal, and certainly not haveing a big mouth like these ignorant cabali.
Also my guild will get involved if and when they chose; untill then this is personal.
-
Well said! You really do look like me some time ago :P
But about personal vendettas, don\'t m8 ... don\'t start one. Trust me.
And about those \"ignorant cabali with big mouths\"... I\'ll just give you something to read:
\" Sometimes, an word is more powerfull than a weapon strike \" ;)
-
Originally posted by Annah
2nd, I really really want to know what\'s the other guild Drak. And why would you say only those are guilds? ^^
The Assassins Guild
And I say that because I don\'t consider guilds, organisations that aren\'t about one kind of class.
warriors guild, mages guild, rogues guild, paladins guild.. you name it...
Most of organisations in PS are things I\'d call clans...
- Swords
-
Originally posted by Annah
Well said! You really do look like me some time ago :P
But about personal vendettas, don\'t m8 ... don\'t start one. Trust me.
And about those \"ignorant cabali with big mouths\"... I\'ll just give you something to read:
\" Sometimes, an word is more powerfull than a weapon strike \" ;)
Evere heard that saying \"sticks an stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me\" well I live by it.
-
But if the word is insolent then the result is often one of regret :)
-
Originally posted by Bardialus
But if the word is insolent then the result is often one of regret :)
If a battle must be fought it will be fought not because of words but to protect the inocent or to put a stop to some villans evil plans. A Darschis Knight never fights in anger.
-
Let\'s not forget that this is a game and as such you will all be starting just as powerful as the next.
Annah: After much consideration I have decided that the Calen Vakhar will not join the Council. My position of the Council still remains the same, however, I believe that it is a great idea and I encourage guilds to join it. Joining a Council of multi-race guilds to solve multi-race problems, though, goes against the beliefs of the Calen Vakhar as those matters do not concern us. I apologize sincerely for not being able to join, but the decision is made. Again good luck with the Council and I do hope it remains.
-
Wow. I pop in my inactive head, and here people are, talking about the exact same things. Alignment, guild governments, the Cabal, you never get bored of discussing them?
Sorry, Annah my man, but personally, I\'m against guild councils, governments, etc. Firstly, there will already be a player-run government. Second, most of what it would serve to prohibit is already impossible. Third, it will probably spend most of its time pointlessly prohibiting things and restricting freedom. Planeshift players have proved time and again that they react way too strongly to small things.
-
Most of organisations in PS are things I\'d call clans...
Maybe, but a guild is better organized than a clan. A clan is just a a gather of people who fights together for something. Though, if I think well, clans & guilds aren\'t different that much, after all, they\'re just ... simple words ;)
Thanks for the support Aendar, and yes I understand your position knowing the background of CV.
JoeyGuy man, how\'re ya?! Been a while since we\'ve last talked :)
-
Originally posted by Annah
Maybe, but a guild is better organized than a clan.
Yes, i could say Arcane Order is more organized than any other PS organization...
Originally posted by Annah
A clan is just a a gather of people who fights together for something.
My point exactly. Add that clans have hierarchy as well and you\'ll have nice description of PS \"guilds\".
Originally posted by Annah
Though, if I think well, clans & guilds aren\'t different that much, after all, they\'re just ... simple words
Just like toothpick and lama... not too different, really... they\'re just simple words.
- Swords
-
err yea lol. How much I want to avoid saying you\'re right, you are :P
I agree with you \'eh
-
quote:
Sorry, Annah my man, but personally, I\'m against guild councils, governments, etc. Firstly, there will already be a player-run government. Second, most of what it would serve to prohibit is already impossible. Third, it will probably spend most of its time pointlessly prohibiting things and restricting freedom. Joeyguy.
If you stand on the side thats against order then you delve into the realm of chaos.
The council doesnt need to be political or become a system of control. What it needs to become is organised and arranged into a semblence of order so that its members can see how it works.
From that point on it is just a matter of refinement to get the polished result that Planeshift will benefit from.
Those of you that argue the validity of a council are forgetting the very principles it should stand for.
Order, the continuing striving for maintaing this.
Equal representation of all involved
Harmony, all points of view should be respected.
If we argue amongst ourselves how can we set an example to those who are watching us, hoping to see the future of how people are represnted in PS!!!
How can we lead if we cannot make our minds up???
-
I don\'t want order, I don\'t want equal representation, and I don\'t want harmony. I like it when guilds argue with each other. I like that more powerful guilds can (or will be able to) push around smaller ones. Besides, as I said, it will simply become a nuscience to the guilds it bosses around. Any \"order\" is a system of control. Ever heard of tyranny of the majority? There\'s a perfect example here in America not a month ago. :(
-
And thats the whole reason why people who think that just becasue they can hold more power shouldnt be allowed to have anything to do with power.
Its misrepresenations like that which allow small minded individuals to control the flow of things. it doesnt allow the smaller minorities to flourish. If thats what you want then you are welcome to wallow in your own pit of self despair by yourself.
Ego\'s have no place within organisations :)
-
Also if you dont want order or harmony then you really shouldnt be making comments about what should be done and how things should be implemented. Its very shallow to want just what you want out of the scope of things. And future guilds and players will not be able to progress in their understanding and enjoyment of PS!!
Furthermore the council acts as mediators between the rifts of guilds. Thats the whole point of selecting people to join, they are supposed to be the voices of people that elects them or allows them to be leaders of guilds.
Its the sign of authority and trust that we are given. If we abuse that by \'pushing\' smaller guilds around then surely we are not protecting those concepts that Planeshift tries to uphold.
You do know the meaning of MMORPG, do you not?
If we argue all the time then nothing is achieved.
-
No, I\'m not saying the Council\'s going to punish smaller guilds. I\'m saying it will very likely punish alrger ones. I forsee a future of ill-informed, knee-jerk reactions to the smallest, stupid issues, because that\'s what always happens in Planeshift.
I\'m confident that guilds can solve their own problems without the help of an organization.
Also if you dont want order or harmony then you really shouldnt be making comments about what should be done and how things should be implemented. Its very shallow to want just what you want out of the scope of things. And future guilds and players will not be able to progress in their understanding and enjoyment of PS!!
Could you explain what this is supposed to mean? It really doesn\'t seem to carry any sort of point.
-
Originally posted by Joeyguy
Planeshift players have proved time and again that they react way too strongly to small things.
Like perhaps, arguing about something even though exactly what it does hasn\'t been worked out yet? Assumptions are rarely good.
-
Originally posted by Annah
JoeyGuy man, how\'re ya?! Been a while since we\'ve last talked :)
I\'m OK. I\'ve had a lot of real-life business lately, but that\'s (hopefully) going to be over in a week or so.
Originally posted by KiernLike perhaps, arguing about something even though exactly what it does hasn\'t been worked out yet? Assumptions are rarely good.
No, because I\'m right. But I see I\'m not really getting anywhere with this; if you all like the idea, go with it. I just thought I\'d let you know how I feel.
-
Originally posted by Joeyguy
No, because I\'m right. But I see I\'m not really getting anywhere with this; if you all like the idea, go with it. I just thought I\'d let you know how I feel.
So your atomaticly right? The only time I dont like when some one argues is when people like you use the same argument over and over again nomatter how manny holes get punched in it because you belive that you are right.
-
Originally posted by Bardialus
You do know the meaning of MMORPG, do you not?
Giving a world of specific theme (medieval in this case), where people can roleplay living in it?
Or in PS case put \"roleplay their characters\" instead of \"roleplay living in it\". There\'s just too many \"funny\" ideas from the players around here.
Like building UN in fantasy/medieval theme for example.
Now if someone would actually feel the world, maybe he would notice that there\'s one small reason why they didn\'t make UN in XV century...
People back then didn\'t think about global peace, but power!
But nevermind that. Let\'s look at the PS world:
Someone came up with idea of \"Guilds Council\". What does it mean? Less power and possibilities for larger guilds. They can\'t push around others anymore.
But would larger guilds want that - my assumption - no.
And they wouldn\'t have to just look at the growing idea. They would strike it down... with ease. All that has to be done is to sign agreement and thanks to the influences and money, force the government to delegalise the council. Done.
It\'s just that putting modern culture into medieval setting always seemed silly to me...
- Swords
-
Originally posted by Hatchnet
So your atomaticly right? The only time I dont like when some one argues is when people like you use the same argument over and over again nomatter how manny holes get punched in it because you belive that you are right.
I know I\'m right. But as I said, I know I\'m not getting anywhere with this. I\'m not trying to argue. I made my points, defended points, and realized that I wasn\'t getting anything done. Besides, as Kiern said, we know very little about this organization and exactly what it\'ll do. You know the basics of why I oppose this; anything else will have to wait.
-
Originally posted by Draklar
Like building UN in fantasy/medieval theme for example.
It\'s just that putting modern culture into medieval setting always seemed silly to me...
You actually mean to say, that you do not believe that organizations such as these did not exist in \"medieval times\"? :rolleyes:
So, by this assumption, we would have to think Annah was thinking one day \"What organizations can I model this after? Oh, maybe I\'ll go with the one that didn\'t work\".
It\'s not an original idea, and the circumstances are extremely different.
It is happier times the less I read of these kinds of things.
-
Have any of you people who say this knid of thing didn\'t exist in meieval and premedieval times ever heard of the citystate system of ancient Greece.
-
Like building UN in fantasy/medieval theme for example.
You know, it\'s sad to think like that. How can you say organizations like these didn\'t exist in medieval times? Hatchnet gave a very good example.
Do you think because you\'re living now, today everything is invented? Sorry to say, but we\'re just evolving (evolving not being the right word, because some are just shaped for the benefits of some people/factions) things created thousands of years ago, or we\'re just re-discovering others.
-
Relax people. You can\'t change the fact that this Council is being created. If you don\'t agree to this idea try to sabotage it :P.
Argueing about disliking/liking this idea serves no purpose. Instead you should get your heads thinking about what you are going to do about it ^^.
Trying new stuff is always a good experience.
-
err yes true :P
Though, it will sure be fun seeing how others will try to sabotage it. ^^
-
I hope so! Anything more concrete ready yet?
-
...Was that double negation on purpose, Kiern?
Because it doesn\'t make sense that way :P
Originally posted by Hatchnet
Have any of you people who say this knid of thing didn\'t exist in meieval and premedieval times ever heard of the citystate system of ancient Greece.
1) Not really same thing.
2) Ancient Greece wasn\'t exactly in middle ages... how is this for \"people who say this knid of thing didn\'t exist in meieval\"? :P
3) Greek culture was way different than medieval culture... they wanted peace between the states... again, that\'s my point.
The only \"councils\" made in middle ages were just some kind of alliances between strongest nations to make their power even bigger.
Just think what would happen if they made global council:
Germany in order to carry on conquering of \"pagan\" nations, needs to stop the council. They send messege to pope. Pope announces that he\'ll place curse on anyone who agrees to form the council. Or something like that. That\'s why I think things like that didn\'t exist in medieval times...
And no replies to the other part of my post? What a surprise :rolleyes:
- Swords
-
It has been answered, sorry no one gives it to you directly.
Originally posted by Draklar
...Was that double negation on purpose, Kiern?
Because it doesn\'t make sense that way :P
...weren\'t you supposed to leave? It begs the question as to why the hell you still post just for the sake of arguing.
It makes perfect sense, whether or not it is correct way to phrase things.
-
It has? Yes, I would expect answering my in-game-guilds-part-of-post by mentioning in game guilds or something, not real life nations ;)
Originally posted by Kiern
It makes perfect sense, whether or not it is correct way to phrase things.
oh, ok.
Then my answer is:
By saying that such organizations didn\'t exist in medieval times, I didn\'t mean to say that I believe such organizations existed in medieval times :rolleyes: :P
- Swords
-
Originally posted by Draklar
...Was that double negation on purpose, Kiern?
Because it doesn\'t make sense that way :P
Originally posted by Hatchnet
Have any of you people who say this knid of thing didn\'t exist in meieval and premedieval times ever heard of the citystate system of ancient Greece.
1) Not really same thing.
2) Ancient Greece wasn\'t exactly in middle ages... how is this for \"people who say this knid of thing didn\'t exist in meieval\"? :P
3) Greek culture was way different than medieval culture... they wanted peace between the states... again, that\'s my point.
The only \"councils\" made in middle ages were just some kind of alliances between strongest nations to make their power even bigger.
Just think what would happen if they made global council:
Germany in order to carry on conquering of \"pagan\" nations, needs to stop the council. They send messege to pope. Pope announces that he\'ll place curse on anyone who agrees to form the council. Or something like that. That\'s why I think things like that didn\'t exist in medieval times...
And no replies to the other part of my post? What a surprise :rolleyes:
- Swords
Ok how about this Germany or it\'s proper name at the time The Holy Roman Empire was one of these so called council orginizations. the rulling princes actualy held more power than the Emperer whom they actualy chose. If your going to use history as an argument atleast do it right.
-
This whole introduction to the new \"Council\" has gone from pointless to plain annoying. All that can be said on the matter has been said..now this is just turning into bickering (Usually I would gladly take part in some arguements but this is dipping into stupid.) So why not just let it go, let it be created because there is nothing stopping it :P
So anyways back onto the order of things are you going to list who has openly accepted invitations to this council or will that be kept secret?
-
ADVERTISING : you wanna see guild wars ? Absolutly no problem just come to the council and you\'ll see !
Congratulation : this council really looks like french parlement... (deputy chamber). That\'s not a joke... I would prefer if it was one... but whereever you go politicals seem to be really dumb, always trying to protect their party interests without thinking about what\'s really important so please all don\'t forget of what you are speaking about : this is a council not a guild war ! Forget your guild interrest !
-
Originally posted by Hatchnet
The Holy Roman Empire
Again, you\'re talking about inside council. That\'s not the same thing -_-
- Swords
-
the role of a council would be more like The United nations, than that of a goverment imo.
-
So anyways back onto the order of things are you going to list who has openly accepted invitations to this council or will that be kept secret?
Nah, nothing secret. The list will be made public when the web site and/or the forums will be up. And don\'t tell me until now you didn\'t figure at least some of the guilds that will be in it :P
-
Quote
Just think what would happen if they made global council:
Germany in order to carry on conquering of \"pagan\" nations, needs to stop the council. : hatchnet.
The germans were \'pagans\' for one. thats why ancient rome tried to conquer them. As for the council states of ancient greece, they were originally designed to give the people that were elected a say in how the society at the time was run. hence the title \'Senate\'
Im sure youve all of this title in some way or another.
Sangwa was right there is no point in going on and on and on about the same points. This resolves nothing and just causes the important things to be fogotten due to dealing with petty arguments.
We dont need to be like the UN. this is Planeshift people, isnt it time we started to apply our thoughts into making this council a Planeshift council rather than squabbling about things in real life????
We need to hold a discussion as to what we are going to stand for. And what power we are going to weild as council members.
-
One rule that will not be tolerated by me would be that the Council comes before the Guild. If it will be like the UN, where it is an alliance of guilds, you probably won\'t see me around too much longer. We have no allies or enemies, and we will not become part of an alliance. This is supposed to be economic, not military.
-
I completely agree and support you Icefalcon, there should not be a pressured feeling within the council that the council must come first.
How are supposed to be able to become astute if we cannot or will not focus our attentions to our own guilds.
I do not believe that anger or force can influence any outcome for the positive. If people are pressured into making a decision then they often feel resentment towards those who force them.
It is our advice that we are supposed to give, not our self views.
By remaining objective towards issues we can solve any problem that arises!
-
Originally posted by Bardialus
The germans were \'pagans\' for one. thats why ancient rome tried to conquer them.
bleh, again, talking about middle ages
fall of ancient rome = beginning of middle ages
Germans were then conquering pagan nations.
On different topic, why won\'t you go into drama, Annah?
No, really, why waste the creativeness on foolish removal of darkness from the dark ages, when you could put depth into world by organizing writing of poems, dramas, stories of brave heroes, maybe even forbidden books?
Unlike dismissing of closed-mindness and frequent fights, that wouldn\'t ruin the medieval atmosphere...
- Swords
-
Actually, I did start to write a book. Sadly, I didn\'t have enough time for it, so I left it behind.
\"darkness from the dark ages\" ... There wasn\'t any darkness in the dark ages. It\'s just my point of view, like you have yours too ^^
And don\'t forget, we\'re in a game, so drama is welcome :P
-
Quote:
No, really, why waste the creativeness on foolish removal of darkness from the dark ages, when you could put depth into world by organizing writing of poems, dramas, stories of brave heroes, maybe even forbidden books? Draklar
I already do those things, both in real life and in Planeshift.
Drama is one of the worlds best kept secret weapons. Think about the storytellers of old and new literature. When people like the ideas in books they tend to agree with the mind set of the author. Either that or like the things they right about.
And I wasnt talking about the middle ages, I ws trying to help clarify a point of fact. It depends on what side of religion you were on in that time. If you stood for things that went against the core beleif system of any race or culture at that time in the world, then you were classed as a \'Pagan\'.
Pagan : a person who holds religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
Again its a case of the stronger bullying the weak.
But I digress from the point in Planeshift the guild of Ovates will hopefully be given room to grow and mature into a guild that concentrates on all the
\'No, really, why waste the creativeness on foolish removal of darkness from the dark ages, when you could put depth into world by organizing writing of poems, dramas, stories of brave heroes, maybe even forbidden books?\'
-
Looking at this thread, one sees people trying to destroy an idea instead of changing it too what they would prefer. The council is still in its planning stages this is were you put forward your thoughts, not write the idea away because you disagree with one of the proposed features.
I believe that people should express their ideas and points even if they disagree with the whole idea. What they should not do is to keep posting disagreeing with every idea that someone puts forth, unless they are trying to help create and build it by proposing what they disagree with and what would be better.
Owww btw, I think that the council might work as an inter-guild organisation that allows guilds to better work their communications , ideas, and possably deals with each other.
What I dont think it should be is somthing that puts forth law that effects the guilds. This does not include the regulations that will probably be needed in the meetings and Council dealings.
-
Welcome to Planeshift, if I can say it this way ... Pardon my words, but I don\'t think I ever saw someone posting his/her 1st thread in the Guilds part of the forums. Are you another member with a new account (Kuiper, it\'s you m8?) ? If not, I am sorry and once again ... welcome to Planeshift !
About your words, very well said ! Though, we must understand them. It\'s in people\'s behavior, they tend to destroy things rather then create something, or at least help at its creation. Maybe in time human kind will change, but let\'s not make false thoughts so soon ;)
And also, good ideas. This thread still remains open for new ideas.
-
Kwip is a member of the Ovates guild. I asked the members of the guild to visit this site in order to see how things are progressing, and to keep informed to what changes might be occuring.
Im heartened to see a semblance of understanding of the politics of the council and Planeshift are finally starting to emerge!
I wonder if a poll of some sort... how things are organised in the council, then how the council will interact with the community of Planeshift...might be a first step into the future for the council??
We need to start throwing ideas around and understanding how things will work.