PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Ecolem on November 18, 2004, 11:51:04 am
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You saw right....Newbs should have a chance to!
But how u say, well quite simple really just aim yourself to victory :D
( i KNOW that there wont be lvls, just EG from newb to expert)
Eg. lvl 100 asks lvl 5 for a battle...long story short the newb wins because he happened to hit with his sword 100 times(maybe with mouse aim system) and expert only 30.
I think (Repeat I THINK!!) that it would be a good system for everyone no matter how good you are you are or bad at least you have a chance
And i know that CB is almost done but maybe in later update or next version :P
Just food for thought untill CB comes out ;)
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AFAIK, PS is going to/already does use RPG rules for combat, not FPS or Action game rules. That is to say, your character swings, calculations are made, dice are rolled, damage is dealt.
I don\'t think using RPG rules is original or realistic, and taking this different approach to combat would certainly be a plus for PS in terms of standing out from the crowd. Right now it just seems to be conforming to boring standards (like implementing combat first, instead of implementing anything else, why combat...? Etc).
At first I read this and thought I didn\'t like the idea... but thinking about it, it would add a whole new level of gameplay, and create a highly interesting, involved, realistic, original combat system that NO other (MMO)RPG has.
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Thats a great idea, you really need to make the game Original. I know it is lame for people to cheat in the game, but people will still do it, and Im like thinking people will read the source and exploit it easly.. but hey im just a noob, what do I know.
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i think i voiced out on this somewhere, but my search-fu isn\'t uber :( (or iam just to lazy)
I think its the one about the fighting system like JK2 or something along that line.
If you played Jk2 you would know what iam talking about, but for thoses who haven\'t i\'ll fill you in on how it works.
In Jk2 you got your light sabers, and at the begening you can\'t defend yourself well with the light saber and also attack well enough with it, But as you progress down the story line you get better at useing it, you block and parry much easier and you Hit harder and faster + new moves.
I agree that this would be fun to see in a mmo but the ammount of codeing hours the devs \"MIGHT\" have to slave inorder to finnish a system like that would be ... Alot Alot (you get the picture) as you got to program for differn\'t kind of weapons like polearms, daggers, swords, axes and maces.
-thats my 2 cents-
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If you want to show how good you are at killing by how you aim a mouse or how fast you can click or something like that the play a FPS not an RPG.
But that is just my opinion ;)
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Yeah, I think that if it were possible to ambush, then sure. But as you have to challenge people, there\'s no way in hell some battle hardened expert is going to lose to a newbie. Compare it to playing a sport like tennis. Someone who\'s been playing for 10 years against someone who\'s just started is going to win easily. :)
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Originally posted by Nikolia
but hey im just a noob, what do I know.
Nothing. So be quiet. :D (sorry, I just had to)
I have to say that I have considered this. It does anger me that in so many mmorpgs, you can get your butt whooped by some dweeb who has nothing to do with their life except sit there and click on monsters. It would definitely be cool if a bit more depended on real gaming skill instead of just time. On the other hand, it does make more sense roleplay-wise that the longer the char spends fighting, the better he/she is at it. Perhaps a balance of some sort would be good, but don\'t look to me for ideas of how it should work. I only criticize. :D
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Originally posted by Phinehas
I have to say that I have considered this. It does anger me that in so many mmorpgs, you can get your butt whooped by some dweeb who has nothing to do with their life except sit there and click on monsters. It would definitely be cool if a bit more depended on real gaming skill instead of just time. On the other hand, it does make more sense roleplay-wise that the longer the char spends fighting, the better he/she is at it. Perhaps a balance of some sort would be good, but don\'t look to me for ideas of how it should work. I only criticize. :D
He\'s not a little dweeb who clicks monsters all day, he\'s a hardened battle veteran who can easily take out a green youngster like you. And no matter how much you wish for it, PS will never be about clicking the fastest or having the best hand-eye coordination. There are plenty of FPS games for the people who wish to play games that require these things, and there are plenty FPS-styled MMOGs as well. PS is an RPG, and it will treat combat and the like in a proper maner, as the game isn\'t for overexcited kids with spasmic fingers. It\'s for everyone. Even old people. :)
P.S. This bit of information was decided long ago by the Dev team, so don\'t even bother trying to complain about it. You\'ll gain nothing from that, but feel free to wish for it as much as you want, just don\'t expect to get anything out of it. :)
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Also, as much as cheating in RPGs is going on, you can be absolutely sure that there would be a whole bunch of Auto-Aim mods in no time. You\'d, however, make grinding (mostly) redundant, but you\'d also give n00bs too much power. Sure it is annoying that you have to start over each time you create a new char or join a new game or server, but OTOH, it allows for equal opportunities for everyone, which IMO is more important.
Not that I don\'t like FPS.
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As far as I know, all players \'ll have to start from Alpha when CB is released. And the only RPG I heard about where something like that went good was Gothic (Remember that shitty combat system of MW)
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Imagine a swarm of people using aimbot to master their killing in PS? It\'d be horrible.
I don\'t like the idea of FPS style.
I\'ve played morrowind, and firing a bow was one of the least pleasant experiences.
Accuracy should be coded not personal, to make it fair on those who are not as fast or able as others are.
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Good idea but the original RPG combat system is more user friendly for people on a slower connection.
But I do think that a FPS combat system would make the game more immersive and role play orientated. As in your hand coordination could influence your effectiveness in battle.
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Eg. lvl 100 asks lvl 5 for a battle...long story short the newb wins because he happened to hit with his sword 100 times(maybe with mouse aim system) and expert only 30.
No computer is created equal. No internet connection is exactly the same.
No. This creates less justice than it eliminates.
And what about those dweebs who have nothing better to do than play FPS\'s all day? :rolleyes:
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This type of combat doesn\'t need to be used as the main combat system. Maybe there will be some resemblance of an arcade(reality shift?). That would allow for people to challenge each other in different battle systems as they please.
I belive that the traditional style of FPS isn\'t very nice, since this is an RPG a player\'s accuracy should be partially determined by how well they can use a weapon. For example, even if they used mouse aim, if their weapon skill was untrained then, there is a high chance that they will hit anything but what their cursor is pointed at.
- here is a stack of pennies, make a marvelous future, I don\'t care if it isn\'t enough to impress an ant! -
EDIT: Typoe correction, see anymore?
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But you couldn\'t ambush someone with a bow sniper-style if you\'d need to challenge them first. However, this sort of aiming mode could still be used. If you had some sort of magnification, it would be possible to switch to \"weapon view\", which will allow you to look at more distant objects than normally (given by both the perspective and the cutoff distance). This way, you would be able to get the sniper feel without actually aiming yourself. Or you youlr actually make it do the target selection using the crosshairs, but the result would be exactly the same as if you had clicked on the target, i.e., if you wish, you can, but your char\'s stats determine the outcome.
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I still stand by the rule that everyone should have an equal chance. :]
ok maybe 5 vs 100 was a bit too vast but other people who get the best things in the game and have the best skills and are imposable to beat....their (i hope) better be some good system that alows even the worst of RPG player to beat him. :D
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If they are \"imposable\" (impossible) to beat, then why try?
If they have a higher skill they have more experience, they are a better fighter. Some new person being able to fight well FPS style has no right to even think they can win. Go back in time, fight Bruce Lee with no martial arts knowledge... see who wins.
There is not, and should not be any system to make your job easier. Practise makes perfect as they say.
If you challenge and lose... big deal.
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if any of yall have played Project entropia they have a very nice combat system we should models our\'s from there\'s :)
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Originally posted by Monketh
Eg. lvl 100 asks lvl 5 for a battle...long story short the newb wins because he happened to hit with his sword 100 times(maybe with mouse aim system) and expert only 30.
No computer is created equal. No internet connection is exactly the same.
No. This creates less justice than it eliminates.
And what about those dweebs who have nothing better to do than play FPS\'s all day? :rolleyes:
I think you mean this creates less justice than it produces or a word to that effect.
As opposed to a dweeb that sits around playing RPGs all day. *Wastes two throws to conduct roll eyes movement but fails so I just flip him the bird*
Originally posted by Adeli
If they are \"imposable\" (impossible) to beat, then why try?
If they have a higher skill they have more experience, they are a better fighter. Some new person being able to fight well FPS style has no right to even think they can win. Go back in time, fight Bruce Lee with no martial arts knowledge... see who wins.
There is not, and should not be any system to make your job easier. Practise makes perfect as they say.
If you challenge and lose... big deal.
I hope your correction of his spelling was for his benefit.
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Well yes, and no.
I did it for the mutual benefit of everyone.
Imposable is a different word in the english language, for those who do not have a fine grasp on the language, it may have caused confusion. The meaning may have been obvious, but, you never know with some people.
It was also partly for amusement, it seemed somewhat amusing to have a spelling mistake highlighted with an underline.
I am entitled to correct anyone\'s error, as they are mine.
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Originally posted by Cirque
As opposed to a dweeb that sits around playing RPGs all day. *Wastes two throws to conduct roll eyes movement*
Well, would you like to beaten by some dork just because he can click and turn \'round faster?
FPS dweebs are \"experienced\" in that.
I\'d rather be beaten by an RPG dweeb who spends all day bashing monsters, because it would be difficult for me to improve my clicking speed, but not my monsta\' bashin\'.
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Hmm, insulting a person due to their game preference seems the height of stupidity to me.
You say that being skilled at something makes them a dweeb? Or that they do it continuously, that\'s foolish.
I am quite good at First Person Shooters, yet I hardly play them. I spend most of my gaming time on one of the many Final Fantasies.
Do you know what a \"dork\" is?
Hardly forum appropriate terminology.
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i tend to agree with Monketh whole heartedly, That is what makes us RPG fans, that is what makes RPG\'s the best type of games(notice my biased attitude, sry bout it :) )
i really hate FPS games, because even if you play for a year, the game is still the same as when you first started, there is no reward for winning, or deafeating your opponent, except for maybe a \"(ns) nice shot\". RPG\'s just get better and better :) that is what seperates FPS from RPG, Mice from Men!
All with me who will take up your swords and vanquish the counter strike junkies say AYE!
Nothing against you Adeli and nothing personnaly against FPS fan\'s, i just dont see it their way, they just seem pointless
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Originally posted by Xordan
Yeah, I think that if it were possible to ambush, then sure. But as you have to challenge people, there\'s no way in hell some battle hardened expert is going to lose to a newbie. Compare it to playing a sport like tennis. Someone who\'s been playing for 10 years against someone who\'s just started is going to win easily. :)
Well thats the thing a challenge between guilds or between characters should be ongoing until A: One of them is defeated or B: Until another forefits. You shouldn\'t have to be beside one another to challenge, that way it will give you chances to make strategies on how your going to fight and if your going to need to ambush. I am tired of all the linear things we need something alittle different brought to the tabel :P
Also stop trying to seperate RPG from FPS because the fighting is somewhat simular. FPS does take somewhat of skill in quick movements and reactions, and RPG\'s prove to be the same way but with different fighting. Its all about technique.
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I also like FPS games, just as I like RPG games. They serve completely different purposes to me. An FPS is for quick action, informal fun, whereas an RPG is for long-term dedication.
They are totally different and therefore can\'t be compared. The idea of having FPS-style combat in RPG environments therefore only appeals to me by it\'s prospect of sniping, but this isn\'t something that I would sacrifice the char-player-independance (aka clickspeed-doesn\'t-matter-property) for. Therefore, the only way would be to simply be able to select the target selection mode from \"conventional\" to \"FPS style\", which would essentially only be a different camera mode (though with some minor differences).
An important benefit would, however, be the option to shoot / cast spells through windows and holes as you can in any FPS but can\'t in any RPG.
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Mate we come from the same country so I know :rolleyes: ...simply a typo :(
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It\'s more than that, we come from the same city.
I was only having some harmless fun, no need to take offence, which you don\'t seem to have, so everything is peachy!
FPS games are not designed for replayability, though with some it is nice to find new ways to do things, such as Jedi Academy, choosing different paths/approaches. Also sometimes it\'s fun to play mindless killing games, plus if you like to be scared, Doom 3 is good to play, late at night, with no lights and surround sound.
I am a true RPG fan, so no offence was taken.
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Ye dw i can take offence realy well(school :rolleyes: )
and no offence taken :D
But the fact is guys that i mean the guys who are the best if the best...well we need a hero eventually so there will be a new person at the top.
And it should be that no matter what class you are, you can beat them
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Originally posted by Adeli
Well yes, and no.
I did it for the mutual benefit of everyone.
Imposable is a different word in the english language, for those who do not have a fine grasp on the language, it may have caused confusion. The meaning may have been obvious, but, you never know with some people.
It was also partly for amusement, it seemed somewhat amusing to have a spelling mistake highlighted with an underline.
I am entitled to correct anyone\'s error, as they are mine.
That reasoning is not really sufficient as far as im concerned but no offence was taken by the person in question and I cant be bothered getting the pistons firing to formulate a half decent response.
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i would think clicking to fight is not fun but i would only give this game a better rating to my friends if i see bows being reloaded not like a machine gun fire rate and when u get ready to fire you can use ur mouse to aim but u have a 50/50 chance of hitting u will not always hit directly but the higher ur skill at it is the more chance of hitting ur target where u fired for example if u had 0 skill at the bow and u aimed for a head shot u would miss completly but if u had 30 skill and u got lucky u might miss by inches or cm
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When you play in a MMORPG if you continue to play with this one and with no other, this is because you\'ve built a character, a story, a guild and everythings are here !
Do you want to see that all the things you do are useless ?
Moreover, when a newbee comes he donno how to play he ask and he learn. While he is a newbee he looks at the older like if he comes into a new world that don\'t belong to him... And I dont think its a bad things ! When he looks at the older players he cant imagine be as good as them and listen to them. After he changes off course and there is no problem for him to integrate the group of older player...
So just imagine you are able to defeat older people. Then the newbees will think they are able to play without listening to the older players advices...
And last problem but not the worthless : how many time your mouse or your keyboard will be able to stay alive with all the hit you\'ll give to them ?
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how many time your mouse or your keyboard will be able to stay alive with all the hit you\'ll give to them ?
Anger management?
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Originally posted by Cirque
how many time your mouse or your keyboard will be able to stay alive with all the hit you\'ll give to them ?
Anger management?
Structurally reinforced, rubber coated titanium keyboard and mouse, and the monitor bolted to the table. :P
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Cirque, that\'s okay, because I don\'t have to give anyone a sufficient reason for anything I do here, unless they hold some authority.
I wouldn\'t mind that actually Seytra, it would be a nice durable set of peripherals.
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Looks like you can do what you like because I dont see any authority around here.
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I am a dedicated FPS fan, I play America\'s Army, Most Halflifemods, Soldat (3rd Person FPS lol), Battlefeild all online and one thing i must point out is that FPS\'s do change, because you get better and own everyone, and then they say your cheating because your sooooo good... aahh..
I am also a dedicated RPG fan, Baldurs Gate 1 & 2, Never Winter Nights*cough* etc, And I love them. Just getting better at skills and spells. Then There are MMORPGs, which are a step better!.
Now That you see im on both sides, i would like to clear up this argument with 3 points :D
Point Number 1 - \"The Sharp Point\"
I will put this in the simplest terms possable. :D RPG and FPS are NOT compadable!! They Are Different Types Of Games, And need to be left that way. They Have there good points, but thats because there different. Games that try to combind every kind of game play are downright anoying! Thank You
Point Number 2 - \"The Point That Lags\"
If you have ever played FPSes online you will know if your not on a good server, even if you have cable, it lags, and when it lags, it becomes increasingly difficult and anoying. These servers run small game worlds with the max of about 30 players. Imagine playing this in a massive world with 100+ players. People already complain about lag!. Having FPS elements in a MMORPG i would say is... Impossible
Point Number 3 - \"The Point With No Point\" aka \"Blunt\"
While having dinner, i forgot the 3rd point... but i will blable on and restate the 1st and 2nd points and no one will notice.
Why would you want a n00bie to beat a Lord?
Whats the point in being a lord then?
(hehe, point 3 was accutly just questions so you can make up your own points)
I Would Like To Conclude With A Refined Analysis Of My Argument... but i wont
I will Simpily say... \"no\"
Have A Nice Day ;)
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Well everyone is entitled to there own opinion and I do I agree with what all of you are saying?and yes you guys have negative points as well and I don?t have anything against that.... :rolleyes:
Btw if anyone else wants to add something just remember that it was (I guess) not a very well thought through idea, so try and keep bagging to the minimal :]
thx agian :))
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Originally posted by Zellgadess
I am a dedicated FPS fan, I play America\'s Army, Most Halflifemods, Soldat (3rd Person FPS lol), Battlefeild all online and one thing i must point out is that FPS\'s do change, because you get better and own everyone, and then they say your cheating because your sooooo good... aahh..
I am also a dedicated RPG fan, Baldurs Gate 1 & 2, Never Winter Nights*cough* etc, And I love them. Just getting better at skills and spells. Then There are MMORPGs, which are a step better!.
Now That you see im on both sides, i would like to clear up this argument with 3 points :D
Point Number 1 - \"The Sharp Point\"
I will put this in the simplest terms possable. :D RPG and FPS are NOT compadable!! They Are Different Types Of Games, And need to be left that way. They Have there good points, but thats because there different. Games that try to combind every kind of game play are downright anoying! Thank You
Point Number 2 - \"The Point That Lags\"
If you have ever played FPSes online you will know if your not on a good server, even if you have cable, it lags, and when it lags, it becomes increasingly difficult and anoying. These servers run small game worlds with the max of about 30 players. Imagine playing this in a massive world with 100+ players. People already complain about lag!. Having FPS elements in a MMORPG i would say is... Impossible
Point Number 3 - \"The Point With No Point\" aka \"Blunt\"
While having dinner, i forgot the 3rd point... but i will blable on and restate the 1st and 2nd points and no one will notice.
Why would you want a n00bie to beat a Lord?
Whats the point in being a lord then?
(hehe, point 3 was accutly just questions so you can make up your own points)
I Would Like To Conclude With A Refined Analysis Of My Argument... but i wont
I will Simpily say... \"no\"
Have A Nice Day ;)
Whats your frag rate on AAO?
Just because there arent any games that have successfully combined FPS\'s with RPG\'s doesnt mean that it cant be done well.
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Currently ive got a hounor of 7 becuse i was TKin some cheaters... teach me for standing up to people lol, i can only get into a couple of servers. frag rating, it depends.. Im a beast with he AK tho :D
Yes I Agree that it \"could\" be done, but not on a mmorpg, unless we all had T1.
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so ok I\'ve no problem in that case (2048kbps)...
but still no !
PS : Deus ex... not online but...
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---> Everything should be fair and realistic....
---> The battle system should be symple, more power =
---> more damage, more dexterity = bigger % to hit
---> targetm, more speed = faterattacks and better ability
---> to dodge. SIMPLE!
---> There should not be some help system for the
---> begginers, cuz that is just plain cheating, wel at least
---> how I see it.
---> You all want Planeshift to be realistic, right? Well, how
---> is it actually realistic if a noob beats a master in
---> battle?
---> The only way that would happen if the noob got a
---> super rare // powerfull weapons (or something)
---> There should be warnings telling what skills noobs
---> should have to have a chence at living before entering
---> a PVP area of PS
---> To Monketh: \"FPS Dweebs\"?!!!! is that an insult??!!!
---> FPS Games rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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You know what realy anoys me is when someone gets up and says stuff that realy isnit what i said. it says Chance...in other words you might have a 1 in 10000000 chance of beating a higher \'level\' then you. but with the system we have now its a 0% chance,
PS. not bagging the system just making my point ;)
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Originally posted by Adeli
Cirque, that\'s okay, because I don\'t have to give anyone a sufficient reason for anything I do here, unless they hold some authority.
Technically, this is correct, but OTOH, as I\'ve said to someone else on another thread, society wouls be totally screwed if everyone would do as they please as long as the police doesn\'t tell them off. Just because they don\'t have authority doesn\'t mean that they aren\'t important. After all, without the community the authority wouldn\'t be important at all.
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No offence Mondo but if I was to spar with someone who is inexperianced in swordsmanship he would stand about 0% of a chance of beating me and to tell the truth I\'m realy not all that great. So obviously a master swordsman would slice a begginer to ribbins in just a few seconds.
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No offence taken Hatchnet :rolleyes:
Just remember that on FPS there is no 0% chance in anything..not that this game is a FPS.. but you get what i am saying
*phech*still dont get it... :(
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I don\'t know if anyone here\'s played vampire: bloodlines, but I think the system in that one works very well in combining real time third person combat, first person shooting, and RP. I could see that system (with tweaking to make the firearms a little less of a liability) being successfully implemented into an MMO... not planeshift, I don\'t think that system would be right for planeshift.
essentially, combat is handled with use of the left mouse key and your directional buttons (WASD) to create combos. as you pump more points into your brawl or melee skills, you become faster, capable of dealing longer strings of combat attacks, and you deal more damage per hit. all this is in third person. when you equip a weapon, you shift into first person, you have a broad targeting reticle, which, as you rest your gun on one focal point, becomes smaller, as you move, it grows if you fire too soon, you could lose your aim by as much as 45 degrees. I\'ve managed to miss a target at point blank range by firing wildly as I was running backwards. more points in your firearms skill give you capability of weilding larger weapons, increased reticle shrink, decreased growth and even more damage to your hits
a system like this might allow a n00b to get a lucky kill, but it definitely gives the advantage to veterans. I would love to see this implemented into an MMO, it would require some amount of personal skill, yet wouldn\'t give an FPS freak all of the advantage
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
No offence Mondo but if I was to spar with someone who is inexperianced in swordsmanship he would stand about 0% of a chance of beating me and to tell the truth I\'m realy not all that great. So obviously a master swordsman would slice a begginer to ribbins in just a few seconds.
True, someone who doesn\'t know the proper stance and things like that, could be down after one hit, even if he managed to block with his shield.
The only way beginner could beat master swordsman, would be if he alowed him to do it ;)
- Swords
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Originally posted by Zellgadess
Currently ive got a hounor of 7 becuse i was TKin some cheaters... teach me for standing up to people lol, i can only get into a couple of servers. frag rating, it depends.. Im a beast with he AK tho :D
Yes I Agree that it \"could\" be done, but not on a mmorpg, unless we all had T1.
Id stop TKing cheaters if I was you otherwise you will end up with 0 honor lol. Punkbluffer (AKA Punkbuster) is doing a really poor job at the moment so the servers are riddled with cheats.
Theres a hacker cruising the servers with a program that allows him to write in modified text and TK anyone on the server including his own team mates and not only does he not get ROE or get kicked but the people hes TKing get ROE and get banned from the servers for like 5 mins.
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Originally posted by Boldstorm
If you want to show how good you are at killing by how you aim a mouse or how fast you can click or something like that the play a FPS not an RPG.
But that is just my opinion ;)
Totaly agree, this is a RPG not a FPS or an action game.
But..
In Role Playing Games you will become stronger the longer you play the game, and in my opninion this should stay, it\'s perfect.
However maybe \'expert\' players should just get a push forward if you know what I mean. Newbies will still be able to beat people that are playing longer but people that are playing longer WILL do more damage, and have better spells and skills etc.
To add this you will need a good combat system that is not just click and fight, so the one with the highest stats will win. But this comabat system will be hard to make (not only with programming, but HOW will this combat system be?)
Greetings,
Rob van der Vleugel
Sry for my bad English btw.
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There should be a anti cheat system build in to Plane Shift...
Oh a noob should only be able to beat a professional if he//she//it has some special items and stuff like that....
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Originally posted by tygerwilde
(... V:BL combat system)
a system like this might allow a n00b to get a lucky kill, but it definitely gives the advantage to veterans. I would love to see this implemented into an MMO, it would require some amount of personal skill, yet wouldn\'t give an FPS freak all of the advantage
This is the best idea on this that I\'ve seen yet. If we make the effect of the stats really high then it\'ll be almost realistic while keeping the advanced char\'s advantages.
I probably should have a look at V:BL. :tup:
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I would suggest it to anyone, I\'ve never even been into the entire FPS thing, and there\'s only a few third person combat games I like out there, but this one is close to the pen and paper game, and it blends the three styles very smoothly, easily the most addictive game I\'ve played, and I\'ve been gaming since pong