PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Nikolia on November 20, 2004, 03:37:55 pm
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Ok we have all played a mmorpg before, HP MP Kill gain EXP
Level up Kill more Level up more Find money Upgrade/Buy weps
Kill more buy great Armour Gain Online Fame by the strength
of your character.
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Although today the most unique game system came to my mind,
something that will make planeshift unlike any other mmorpg
And very unique it\'s based around the Evolution effect.
(http://img58.exs.cx/img58/58/evolution3.jpg)
In The Game you start as a Fish, as time progresses you become
hungry you then need to make choises on what to eat Plants
or other animals, what ever you choose will effect your alignment.
Like everything else in the game.
(http://img55.exs.cx/img55/7/fish4.jpg)
Lets pretend in my game I just started. I start eating other fish (or other smaller players) or anything like that
to earn me Evil Alignment points. I then gain enough EXP
and go onto the next level I select at the selection screen
to Have Sharper Teeth Smaller Eyes and a Spikey body
rather then a scaley one. So I end up looking like something like this.
(http://img60.exs.cx/img60/2671/fish7.jpg)
Eventually as time progresses and you reach say lvl 5 you will get the chose to Revolutionise and grow some legs (Nifty huh!)
Once you grow some legs you will look like some strange
fish thingy hoping around on legs and other more advanced and revolutionised players will most likely laugh
at you. your new legs will be only weak and you will have
to gain some more alignment points until you get some arms, also what ever you select to revolutionise can effect
your current player and your stats so selecting something
like long hair may add +1 charm or selecting some Fins for
the back can increase +3 swim etc.. etc.. here is an example of what the selection screen may look like.
(http://img61.exs.cx/img61/5231/lvlup.jpg)
Like I said this is a very unique system and unlike many
other games what you look like ACTUALLY effects the
game and also you have something great to look forward
to once you reach level up screen. Rather then just
gaining a Level up to gain a high level and show how
great you are.
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Incase you havn\'t noticed, PS is not E.V.O. The game mechanics and settings are already in place- there is absolutely no way this would become PS. Don\'t get me wrong, it\'s a nice idea (which has been done before, and would take years upon years to make into a playable MMORPG). But not PS. Ever.
In light of that, moving this to Hydlaa.
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Nice idea (even if as Moogie said there\'s no way PS will one day become that) but the PvP needed by your system would prevent many newbies from playing, if you are eaten by a fish when you\'re just a larva what can you do ? where\'s the fun ? I think this needs improvment...
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Really creative stuff...
Perhaps you should make a branch of PlaneShift that does this :D
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The crystal space engine IS open source, so you could make it if you had the time/skill/knowledge. I think it would be fun to play. starting out as a larvea, darting about looking for bits of sea weed or krill to eat... Hilarious! :D
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Evolution is used in every MMORPG. When you gain a new skill, you evolve. When you improve your attributes, you evolve. That\'s because you aren\'t the same character from the beginning.
And what you\'ve just described, are just some childish ideas that will never work. You just can\'t start from that level, no one will play something like that trust me.
Evil Alignment points? :rolleyes:
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Annah: It\'s worked in a single player game, I see no reason why it can\'t work in a MMORPG, with some proper rules laid down and protection for new characters.
I agree the alignment stuff should be scrapped. There\'s no such thing as \"good\" and \"evil\" in the real world, so it would be terribly out of place in a game about evolution.
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I don\'t see the proper rules laid down :P
And yes it would be nice, but not starting as a fish for god\'s sake ;)
* EDIT *
When I said it will never work, I meant strictly to his/her ideas, which are saying you\'re starting as a fish. That\'s not a level many would want to play at the beginning :P
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I dont think its childish, just a new twist on an old concept. Instead of everyone having a humanoid character that looks just like hundreds of others in the game, you would controll an animal char, that looks only like other players that have taken similar paths as you have. (much like evolution.) Imagine a world populated not with people, but with animals. You would have to fight for food and survival. you could live under water, then choose to evolve into a land dwelling creature if you wanted to. The chat system could be modified to translate your speach into somthing more appropriate for your intelectual level. eg Annah says: \"Im hungry. I think I\'ll get some food\". is translated into Annah says: (grunt) \"Annah hungry. Annah bash small tasty thing on head and eat.\" (scratches butt) No offense Annah :) Of course a game like this wouldnt be serious, but it would be funny, and therefore, fun to play.
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.. \\o/ ..
Anyway, now think at what engine you\'ll need for that, and how many could play it via internet? :P
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Im sure a game like that could be built on the crystal space engine. I dont think that it would be too much more complicated than PS. so i guess we can expect to see this game around 2015 then, eh? also as an mmo, it wouldnt take a lot of bandwidth, so 56k\'ers (and 33.6, 28.8, 14.4...) could play it too.
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I don\'t think such a game would necessarily be not serious. Depending on what you evolve to, you\'d be a predator or herbivore (or omnivore aswell). Predators would feed on Herbivores to gain xp, whereas Herbivores would gain it from grazing or grouping together in herds.
All types of creatures would evolve things like strength and speed and agility and camouflage in order to better survive the world. Playing this game would be a constant cat+mouse chase and it\'s something I\'d certainly play for hours. :)
[Edit: Infact I\'d love to help develop it, if anyone is serious with the idea of creating this game. 2D and textures.]
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I would really like to see this a game as well, and i would help with 3d models, concept art and whatnot. but this is what the PS devs didnt want, people splitting up and working on another game, diminishing resources and all. but then again, were not devs, are we...
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Originally posted by Shadowfalcon
I would really like to see this a game as well, and i would help with 3d models, concept art and whatnot. but this is what the PS devs didnt want, people splitting up and working on another game, diminishing resources and all. but then again, were not devs, are we...
Actually, it doesn\'t really matter what the Devs want you to do (no offense), but just because you came here and joined the community doesn\'t mean you can\'t stay around, while making a game.
Hmm, this idea sounds pretty nifty (quite amusing too; in a good way), but would you want it where everyone has to start as a fish. It could be good to have different choices at the beginning (like races, but not called that) for people to choose from. It would give a bit more variety, replayability (well, like choosing a different Evolution path), and other aspects. Just some ideas...
By the way, Annah: Just because you think that this game is childish and stupid, doesn\'t mean that no one else likes it, or would at least play it.
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i think that everyone should start out as the same kind of paramecia, a type of protozoan slime, with the potential to become anything. Players start out in a small pool, secluded from the world ocean. they float about with their cilia, talking, metabolizing, doing various little things to get the hang of things, gaining a few levels. (this could possibly be a tutorial area, explaining things for the noobs.) After a few levels, they get the option to sprout either fins, (fish) or to sprout tentacles (octopi or jellyfish). these larger creatures must then leave the tidal pool and go into a larger pool with more little fish-things. In this pool, little bits of plankton and seaweed float about, which you must eat to survive. eating only plankton will evolve you into a carnivore, eating only seaweed will evolve you into a herbivore, eating both will evolve you into a omnivore. Again this is just a learning area where you talk and level up, and begin your journy to the mature creature you want to become. You leave this pool, and enter a somewhat large undersea cave, with openings large enough for small creatures, but preventing the larger oldbies from coming in and doing some noob killing. In this cave, you begin to prey on small creatures, (for carnivores, of course) possibly small NPC fish, or krill or shrimp. omnivores still eat seaweed obviously. Also, monsters also exhist in this cave, so players can get battle experience. Leveling up here gives you the option to develop \"magical\" skills, such as electricity, or poison. also things like speed, manuverability, camoflauge, and intelegence can be evolved. after a few more levels, you are released from the cave, lest you grow to big and get stuck. You are now in the open ocean. To survive here, you must band together with your own kind, as the streangths you developed in the cave are your only defense from predators. Electrical fish, for instance, protect themselves because their combined electrical charge is enough to kill larger fish. but in order to find food, you must break away from the group, and make yourself vulnerable. Your food is still NPC. As you continue to grow, you must begin to break away from the large schools, and form smaller schools. This will make finding food easier, and also because there will now be fewer of your \"species\" due to seperate evolutionary paths. also, you may now begin feeding on straglers in player schools. (maybe to promote this, eating player characters give you experience.) at this time, you may also begin to develop imunities, so that you may now safely swim closer to the electrified schools, bettering your chances of getting food. or poison imunity so that you can eat poisonous fishies. More evolving, yada yada yada, then at some point, you have the choice to develop into an air breathing creature. You then can either stay in the ocean and develop as a whale or dolphin like creature, or you can even develop as a land creature, sprouting short stubby legs, becoming a lizard. if you want to continue being a fish, you can forego lungs, and develop into monsters of the deep, sharks, giant squid, or anything else we can think of. On land, you can develop further, eating smaller NPC lizards, snails, bugs, etc. more evolutions... Then you have another major fork. you can decide on becoming warm-blooded, and develop hair, or you can keep your lizard like properties, and continue twords the path of the ultimate dinosaur. Otherwise, you go onto the path of primates. (It shouldnt be possible to evolve into humans, more like uber gorillas, or somthing.) Anyway, thats my vision of such a game, and if you bothered to read the whole thing, thank you! of course, there would be traditional rpg elements, mainly quests. Im not sure how they could be implmented, maybe kill a mob of fish terrorizing other fish, or go find a rare turtle shell or somthing... If anybody else hase any ideas, share them!
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hmm... Couldnt you make paragraphs Shadowfalcon ? your posts would be much easier to read !
The ideas are good anyway :) The quests could lead to a few special properties (like poison immunity as you said) but in my opinion it would be really hardto keep the balance between carnivores and herbivores if the defense skills you develop as an herbivor can be countered by carnivores...
Just another stupid idea, you could develop a system of communication that only allows people of the same species to comunicate (infrasounds for elephants, ultrasounds for bats etc...) this can explain the possibility to /tell for example as your predators would hear (or at least understand) you.
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Well let\'s not forget that evolution in the real world is a vicious cycle- herbivores evolve defenses, carnivores evolve to overcome the defenses, so herbivores evolve more advanced defenses, thus carnivores must evolve even better offenses... Etc.
But yes I agree, the details and balancing need to be finely hammered out on this for it to ever succeed. What about PvP? Could herbivores compete with eachother (much like two stags fighting for dominance) and gain some extra experience? Could carnivore PCs kill herbivore PCs to gain experience? What about perma-death, starting back as a fish... or perhaps, when you die, you are \"reborn\" as a youngster of the species you currently belong to (and need to survive for a short period of time before growing up into an adult again)?
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Sorry about tho no paragraphs... my bad. Ive had a few more ideas in the last hour, such as dungeons could be sunken ships, underwater caves, prehaps even a sunken city. (i know that this implies that humans also exhist in the world, but i think that would be ok, as long as there arent actually any humans.)
Also leji, the carnivores can develope immunities, but not complete immunities, as the herbavores will be uping their skills as well.
I was also thinking that omnivores should be avoided in such a game, because very little of the animal kingdom consists of them. They are pretty much seen in the much higher up life forms. like bears, and of course humans.
Edit: Ohhhh! good ideas Moogie! But i think that PvP would be a must. Or else you would have to challenge a smaller herbavore before you could eat him, and that doesnt make much sense. Of course there would be NPC fish for the carnivores to eat, just as there would be NPC grass and trees for the herbavores. But eatting players would be more challenging, so would be worth more experience.
Being reborn is a great idea, i dont think i would have ever thought of that. players could be born out of the eggs of their current species (or just wake up on the ground in a herd of their brethren). they would have to grow again by getting exp, but wouldnt be too harsh for a death penalty. Good stuff!
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Ya, perhaps they should be left out, unless they have a greatly reduced rate of \'xp gathering\'.
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Whoa so many people like the Idea, Thanks guys!
Ok, The Ocean is just basically the beginning of the Game.
You start there then you can begin to choose your path
of evolution, you can choose to have Shell Type Skin - which
would in the end result in turning into a Clam (not very
interesting huh) or you could choose to have rubberish skin -
which may end up evolving into an Octopus. Me Personally
I would want to get out of he water right away and explore
the land with 1, 2, 3 or 4 legs then again I might want to
grow some Wings and fly around, but perhaps be caught by
a massive spider web unless my eyes evolved stronger
and I got something like +2 sense. It is the only game I can
really think of where what path you take ACTUALLY effects
your game play ALOT. Though notice, there are no restrictions
If you want to be human go for it, you might be better at
creating things but you cant fly now can you?
Also if your a Human you might not be well at swimming
or breathing under water thus restricting you from an under
water world. Another thing CLANS people would actually
belong to Clans/Guilds such as The Assassins Guild... not just
because they want to be an assassin in the game but
because they CAN be an assassin and evolve into a creature
that lurks in the shadows and can stab/slice quick and
fast, Like I said before what ever it is you evolve into
will actually effect the game. Of course there would be
quests for you to solve but the game will be different to
every Character so it will be slightly unbalanced.. but another idea, An NPC can give out 3 quests and it will choose
1 of the 3 that suites your characters stats the best.
----Back to reality
This would be very very hard to code. Only the evolution
system, I was thinking About the way you can create
characters in the sims2 the game will pull parts out,
make parts fatter make parts sharper add/remove legs
This way the model would be created by the character
and would save people from Modeling thousands of
different possibility\'s the texturing system is something
to be thought about.
But please PS DEVS dont look at this and Go nahhh
this is too complex it is also not going to work out.
THIS IS YOUR CHANCE, there is no other mmorpg in the
world with this system you your engine makes textures
look so smooth and great, your architectural design is
Wonderful, would you like to be known for the best
Game Engine system? or the BEST game and engine system, well thats all I have to say so please think it over.
If you do choose to make this and abandon alot of what
you have made (levels systems) to make this one. You are
making the correct choice you will also have alot of support
In making the game.
P.s sorry for my poor Grammar lol
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First, calm down. Second, the PS team didnt make the engine, they are using the Crystal Space engine. It is far from the best engine out there. I can name 10 better engines out there, but just not OSS. Third, the PS team is not goint to give up on everything they have worked on to change it into your idea. Even sugesting that they do so is blasphemous. Fourth, you cant assume that your choice is the best choice, as there are many unforseen things out there.
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your right, sorry I guess I got carried away
also I didnt mean they would abbandon PS, it will still be
Planeshift, but something changed, but yeah I guess its
not going to happen unless some one on these forums
can do it, I mean I can model and Texture, but im no coder so
well I gues we are going to have to forget about it.
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Woah there Nikolia, we\'re talking about making a new game, not turning PS into this. That would be ridiculous.
But anyways, we already have interested modellers and artists here, that\'s a good start. We just need some programmers and things can get rolling. :P
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Lol, your right Moogie if we can find some Interested coders
that have perhaps worked on mmorpg projects before and understand
The drift I think we can get going
The only part that will take most of the work is going to be
the Evolution system once that is up I will know how to get
everything else going (but not how to code it)....sooo
lol any Interested Programmers?
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The first step to making a video game is brainstorming, and anybody interested in making the game needs to be involved. Lets get some people to help!
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Baaah, ok you won :P
It seems most of you really like the idea, so if Nikolia would accept, this game will turn into reality in the near/distant future. For that I would donate our engine (of course, with the condition that the game will be developed by the Ankh Ent.\'s team) and some of our people.
We have 2 games in development, an Adventure/RPG and a MMORPG, both commercial. So I guess it would be nice to also have a free (?) MMORPG with your ideas.
If I liked the ideas I could\'ve been mean and steal your ideas, and then make copyrights on them on my name :P But what the hell, you can gather some talented people if you want also, and you\'ll be put as project leader.
PS - You\'ll have to understand that the project will not be developed as fast as possible, because the other games are our top priorities.
And what I\'ve just said, it will be available starting the 1st part of the next year. Until then, start creating game design docs.
* EDIT *
Ok, here are some features of the engine, because is not just another ... :P
THE BRUTE
We\'re currently working on DX9, and as for technologies I could say a few: Normal maps support, Stencil/Soft Shadows, Blooming Effects(HDRI glow), Pixel Shader 2.0, Vertex Shader 2.0 etc.
Some other features ...
- average of 500000 - 1500000 poli per scene with dinamic lod for all objects except buildings
- 10000-50000 trees of 7000-10000 poli with every leaf wind affected
- 100000-200000 grass blades affected by wind
- 1024x1024 18 octave fractal clouds with realistic shading and light scatering with light shafts
- continuous LOD for very detailed terrain and water
relections for water and realistic phisics with special ocean shader for truly realistic water
- (? infinite number of) Per Pixel Dinamic Lights using Hemisphere Model and HDRI and normal mapping for all objects (for details)
- softshadows for all objects
- volume fog
- realistic day night transition
- Complex particle effects with programabile particle motion for secial effects and wether effects.
- physics - we are aiming for a realisitc simulation close to the Havok2.
- AI - Semi waypoint flexible system
etc. ...
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Whoa, thats great news!
However I have a couple things I need fixed up
so first off forgive my ignorance but who is the \"Ankh Ent.\'s
team\" is there some more
Information about them perhaps a website. Also this game
system sounds really really interesting, the grass effects are
something I would like to take a look at, is there a website
setup for The brute, and these other games... just so I can
kind of get an idea of what the engine is like and what the
game will be like . Where can I find the other games
being developed under it, I am now one step closer and
like you had said this game could turn into reality, I have
alot set in my mind but yet I don\'t have anyone who can code
I will start to learn abit so I can use the engine properly
but also I will need to find more coders for the matter
but yes like you said I will be the Project leader so I will
have to setup recruitment.
Ok one of the MOST important things that will effect the
Morale of the team is the way the game is going to be
although I have a great thought on how the game should
be I want to hear the other staffs thoughts on the matter
and I want there Ideas to be part of this reality, so if you
have an idea chances are it will be in here
Ok, so first things first if you are interested in this and
would perhaps like to be staff ( I am expecting Moogie and
Shadowfalcon to be staff) then you can contact me
through Msn (nikolia@gmail.com) or on
yahoo (linux_ethics) but I really would prefer Msn, so
please use that instead if you can.
ok, and if I can get this setup I will first begin to get
a sub domain on cdedicated.com and make some forums
We will jolt down the ideas put them together and then set the job
Maybe even setup some textures etc in advance.
We are going to do this!! :D
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lol calm down will you :P And no, you don\'t need to search for other coders, because what we have is enough (and trust me, not many know to work the way our engine is made). We\'ll speak on MSN for more details (this are still the Planeshift boards), but don\'t forget, this project will not be top priority, and it will start from the start of the next year.
My id is -> AryamPS@hotmail.com (nah don\'t worry, I am not affraif of spam, it\'s already full of it ^^)
And aham ... moogie already works at Ankh Entertainment :P
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Ok, whilest your team will not begin on it intill the start of next year.
I am going to get somethings setup, I have already done the world map
and I am doing concept art and setting the game up, anyone
that likes this Idea or would like to be part of it is encouraged
to post, just write on here what you can do and also your msn account, and any other information you might think usefull.
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I advise we keep this OSS and free... letting Ankh develop it just means it\'ll be behind closed doors the whole time and people will have to buy the game when it\'s done.
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Keep in mind some people (creationists) do find the very idea of evolution highly offensive. So expect some arguments about it at some stage. I for one don\'t care.
I\'m not sure that this game would be possible, but have fun trying.
Think about it, there are countless possibilities if your actions truly dictate your evolutionary path. You have so much work ahead of you, if you seriously want to pull this off. Good luck, you\'ll need it.
That was a sudden change in thoughts Annah.
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Ok, I don\'t know who could be offended at the thought
of fantasy non existent creatures evolving into some more
fantasy creatures could offend some body. The thought to me is absolutely
Ludicrous. As for having so much work ahead, I know and understand
How the game will work it is after all my idea, it is not the
concept of how hard it will be to make. It is how you are
going to make it and from the judgement of your text your
mind is in the incorrect place, as for Annah\'s change in mind
I think this is because of multi prospects on the game matter
you cannot always look at things from one single side, this
can results in ignorants for example
BOB: Hello, I am new at this game.
Jane: Omg, you are a noob.
BOB: Yes, I am rather new. If you have the time could you please teach me some things?
Jane: LOL no way you are a noob I bet you dont even know
how to push the start button
BOB: start button? do you mean Gnome button, I am on linux.
Jane: No you NOOB it\'s not called the \"Gnome\" button it\'s called
The START button Geee you are a stupid Noob, go read a book.
sorry about much strange post, I dont mean to offend you
If this is what I am doing, however it is 5:41 am and I am
rather tired so I am going to sleep now.
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Nice annah, that engine sounds taylor made for this sort of game, with realistic water, coulds, grass and trees... but i would agree with moogie, that this should be OSs free. a good free game will have mush more support from the community (look at planeshift). of course, I would like more information about ankh\'s dev team and the engine before i could develop a final opinion. do you have a website we could get more info from? Also, you couldnt steal his idea, as it is his intellectual property, and we all know who had the idea first.
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Ankh isn\'t a real company yet, and they don\'t have a website or any available information. (I know, I kinda joined them a while ago before I knew anything about them :P)
The only reason Annah has suddenly changed views is because he sees an opportunity to cash in on someone else\'s great idea. His small team of 10-15 people, alot of which are under 18, are already working on developing 2 completely different games. Of course, taking on yet another one is being greedy, especially since there\'s not enough manpower to develop that much stuff at the same time. That is why I strongly urge you to keep this your own creation, Nikolia. Don\'t give it away to anyone- let people work for you.
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What a harsh judgement ;)
1st of all, I am not stealing his ideas to make some extra cash, I said it before that the game will be free and he\'ll be the project leader. The simple fact why it will be develped under Ankh\'s autority is that it\'s the only way the engine can be used for the game. Unless he wants to buy it :P You see?
Also, the team is not small and it has 27 active members, and I am not the only director. Never doubt of what we can do :P
And yes, the web site is under construction after we\'ve decided to rebuild the old one, and yes, there\'s no available information for the public yet.
Ankh isn\'t a real company yet
True also. This week it will start to be registered, and contracts being made.
Ok, this is all, just know that I wanted to make his dreams become a reality, I don\'t want to steal or use them.
* EDIT *
alot of which are under 18
Actually, only 7 of the members. Talent isn\'t influenced by age you know. And we already thought to make special contracts, that can be made for them (with the help of their parents), because they\'re all over 16.
May I ask, now why being so negativist?
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Ok.. just another thing. Free?
yes, the game will be free if I can find some people willing
to help work on it, I might even use a different engine and make
It Open source if thats the case.
However some things you need to understand all though
I belive in the linux ethics and the information sharing.
It wont put money on the table, so if ever the game does
cost money it will be after it is established, has a name and
alot of people play it, I have already started work on the game.
So I dont want people telling me what the game should and
should not be if you are not going to help me make it. Thank you.
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Nikolia, your example had no relevance to the given topic. If this were in person not online, this is where I would tell you to \"think, then speak\".
That was pretty harsh moogie. Ankh may be the only way it\'ll ever get realised. This kid thinks that if he wants it badly, no matter how difficult, it will happen.
That\'s a very naive approach. Annah seems to be his only chance.
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You *have* to want it badly enough in order for anything to happen, but you also need great communication skills in order to direct/lead/design a game effectively. I think that one thing that attracts me to the PS project is that it has attracted some artists, which are quite the novelty in the programming world.
In order to develop this game in collaboration with anyone, open source or not, you need a very clear vision of how you want gameplay to be, and a good idea of the resources you\'ll need to make it happen.
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Adeli: Perhaps. I\'m not saying letting Ankh develop it would be a bad idea, it\'s just who came to offer their services that worries me... if you\'ve ever known Annah here, you will probably have the same opinion. I just want Nikolia to have a fighting chance at getting his idea realised, and for that, he may need someone with a slightly better track-record with these things.
Just speaking my mind, not intended to flame or insult (although it may of course look that way)- I just can\'t have any different opinion based on what I know about him from this community. And I\'m not pushing my opinion, either. The course of this affects me too, if Ankh were to actually take it on.
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Fair enough Moogie, and no, I don\'t know Annah very well.
Dfryer, he doesn\'t seem to understand the resources he will need, that\'s my point.
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... it\'s just who came to offer their services that worries me... if you\'ve ever known Annah here, you will probably have the same opinion. I just want Nikolia to have a fighting chance at getting his idea realised, and for that, he may need someone with a slightly better track-record with these things.
Oh princess. You still don\'t get it aye? Yes, Adeli doesn\'t know me, but same as you. You only know a character, you only know \"Annah\" from these boards, but you have no idea about the \"Antonio\" that\'s working at Ankh. You know, these are 2 different lives. The PS one, and the real one.
You come to a game to create a new life, different from the real one. How can you judge someone from what you know in a \"virtual life\" if I might say like this?
And maybe I did a lot of mistakes in the past in here, but I always tried to correct them. We live to learn right?
I just can\'t have any different opinion based on what I know about him from this community.
True. But why not giving me the chance to prove you that you\'re wrong? Why not trying to really know me? Why not trying to know me outsite this community? That is what I don\'t get it ... :(