PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: |Zidewinder| on December 25, 2004, 09:58:38 am
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If I could have you guys make just one single change to Planeshift, it would be increasing the movement speed (at least the run speed, preferably the run and walk speeds). It\'s so aggravating holding down the run key the whole time you\'re moving, only to poke along at .00000034 miles per hour. =P Please, make the movement speed more akin to that of other games like Guild Wars, Star Wars Galaxies, et cetera! :) Thanks for your time!
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That also means more lag (graphical and aswell network).
However I agree it can be a little annoying sometimes, maybe in later versions the movement speed should increase a little.. (I said in later version, first reduce the graphical/network lag)
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Why should it mean more lag? Wouldn\'t you be updating the player\'s location at the same time intervals, with the player simply moving farther with each interval?
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Ok lets think about this if you make them faster then you have to make the legs faster (althought I\'m not to possitive about this so correct me if I\'m wrong in any way) Which mean the desplay nedds to be showing a bunch of fast moving legs in a city or random trading area so I\'m sorry i would have to agree it would cause more lag but at the same time.... yes it is very annoying... Hay but look on the bright side atleast you can move :)
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Well how bout the devs promise to make it faster when the game becomes more stable :P
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Originally posted by Theweakend
Ok lets think about this if you make them faster then you have to make the legs faster (althought I\'m not to possitive about this so correct me if I\'m wrong in any way) Which mean the desplay nedds to be showing a bunch of fast moving legs in a city or random trading area so I\'m sorry i would have to agree it would cause more lag but at the same time.... yes it is very annoying... Hay but look on the bright side atleast you can move :)
I\'m no 3D graphics professional, so I *could* be wrong, but I\'m pretty sure that\'s not how it works. It doesn\'t make any difference how fast or slowly something is moving on the screen, what causes (or doesn\'t cause) lag (of the video card variety) is the detail level of the object in terms of number of polygons, texture resolution, presence or absence of bump maps, specular effects, etc. For all the graphics card knows, everything on the screen is moving at 50000 miles per hour, and it\'s going to render it at X frames per second regardless. It redraws things the same number of times per second no matter how fast they\'re moving.
Again, I *could* be wrong, but I\'m fairly sure of this.
Now, faster movement might put a little bit more strain on the CPU, but I really don\'t think it would be noticable. :)
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Movement is fine...
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Originally posted by Icefalcon
Movement is fine...
Come on dude... It takes 20+ minutes just to run from Hydalla Plaza to that new Arabic looking town... That\'s insane.
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if you so bored with pressing shift and move forward
why dont you just press \\ once for autorun, go make a coffee come back and your at ojadeva or wherever... or stuck half in a tree :p
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lol
But seriously, haven\'t any of you played other MMORPGs where you move faster? Isn\'t it much better that way?
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I\'ve said this before and i\'ll say it again, you were so happy with getting cb now all your doing is moaning about this and that, shut up and play it
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Originally posted by mikedean
I\'ve said this before and i\'ll say it again, you were so happy with getting cb now all your doing is moaning about this and that, shut up and play it
Ditto.
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I agree
Ps thank you Zidewinder for the correction
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If you can blaze from one town to another in under 5 minutes, it won\'t be much of a world.. would it?
It takes me 2 to 15 minutes to walk to the nearest school, and that\'s visibly close to me... I can see it from the street... The travel time seems realistic.. eventually faster transportation methods will be implemented, if you can walk so fast, then you won\'t really want to use those \'faster\' transportation methods now.. would you?
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You run fast enough already. I dont want anymore lag, not like there is much or anything but i prefere leg-free environments
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I don\'t know much about 3d either, so feel free to bash/correct me.
The lag we get from faster movement is no different from the lag we already have, just that with slower movements the lag is harder to notice as less needs to change per frame update.
What I am trying to say is that we only think it\'s lagging more.
Though if the cpu is weak then it might really cause more lag as things needs to be recalculated faster. While the frames that you see draw at a fixed rate, the frames we don\'t see is what eats most of the cpu, the computer needs to calculate the next step at all times. With faster movement it\'ll have more calculations between each frame.
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Originally posted by mikedean
I\'ve said this before and i\'ll say it again, you were so happy with getting cb now all your doing is moaning about this and that, shut up and play it
Excuse me, I am not moaning about anything. I\'m just giving a suggestion on something that I think could be improved. That\'s why this forum is here isn\'t it? Did I say I wasn\'t grateful for CB? No, so don\'t go acting like I\'m some n00b crabbing at the devs to get rid of the linkdead errors or something. Jeez.
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I like the fact that running to various places takes a while - it wouldn\'t be a persistent online world, and there would be no sense of achievement if you were at various places in an instant. Mind you, I\'d like to see the run speed increased a little while crashes are frequent, as there\'s nothing more frustrating than spending 10 minutes going somewhere only to get a linkdead message. Once the bugs are ironed out, I think it\'s perfect.
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Originally posted by Euphoria
I like the fact that running to various places takes a while - it wouldn\'t be a persistent online world, and there would be no sense of achievement if you were at various places in an instant. Mind you, I\'d like to see the run speed increased a little while crashes are frequent, as there\'s nothing more frustrating than spending 10 minutes going somewhere only to get a linkdead message. Once the bugs are ironed out, I think it\'s perfect.
Exactly, this post has said everything I was going to say. Agreement 100%. Just deal with the speed people, but they really can\'t do anything about that atm without sacrificing people\'s enjoyment of the game.
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Well in my opinion, realism doesn\'t necessarily equal fun... I think they should strike a ballance between having ultra-realistic movement and having it not be a HUGE inconvenience just to walk from the Plaza to the Magic Shop or something. Most people don\'t have all day to sit there watching their avatar \"running\" (I use the term loosely :P ).
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Most people don\'t have all day to sit there watching their avatar \"running\" (I use the term loosely :P ).
i do
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thats why i suggested a speed level/attribute. The more you run the faster you can go, more realism and it makes you happy (well maybe not at first). Sorta like in gta, the more you run on foot the longer you can hold down the sprint button, in this case you could run faster (forever). This ould also be used along side dexterity and avoiding attacks......and maybe quests? Racing against a npc. Or perhaps an olympics style race? Who knows! lol, many possibilties.
Though I still dont think the max speed should be that fast, not faster than any other transportation
p.s. lol it would be funny to see enki\'s run on all fours to run faster =D
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Originally posted by Iamthom
thats why i suggested a speed level/attribute. The more you run the faster you can go, more realism and it makes you happy (well maybe not at first). Sorta like in gta, the more you run on foot the longer you can hold down the sprint button, in this case you could run faster (forever). This ould also be used along side dexterity and avoiding attacks......and maybe quests? Racing against a npc. Or perhaps an olympics style race? Who knows! lol, many possibilties.
Though I still dont think the max speed should be that fast, not faster than any other transportation
p.s. lol it would be funny to see enki\'s run on all fours to run faster =D
This would be a great solution to the problem! :) Maybe Agility could affect movement speed?
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at the moment speed is the least of my worries.. lag is much better but when in hydlaa plaza it can take 10 minutes for me to walk past all those rendered characters entering the world XP...
Also the faster you run the more splines and polygons must be rendered and skinned in the same amount of time.. (that wouldn\'t cause the server to lag to much.. it would cause YOUR computer to lag trying to handle it all. i think, then again i know less then nothing about 3d and coding)
And later a \"run\" needs to be added.. this is more like a \"jog\" (fine with me.. my PC couldn\'t handle a true run XD) so that those with good PC\'s could tear @** and those of use who are poor and have crap PC\'s can put-put-put along
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What if there was special \"traveling\" boots that you could buy wich made you more vulnerable but also made you faster?
EDIT - What if those where only usable outside of areas with a normally high playercount (like cities) or (taken to the extreme) only usable on highways?
Personally i think the movement speed matches the starting city in PS quite nicely.
Also correct me if im wrong but isn\'t the movement animation rendered client side and \"faster running legs\" would only make a impact client side, no more bandwidth would be needed for a char to run faster?
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Originally posted by ZappaZ
Also correct me if im wrong but isn\'t the movement animation rendered client side and \"faster running legs\" would only make a impact client side, no more bandwidth would be needed for a char to run faster?
Thats right, however it would look like people are teleporting if they go too fast, because people can move farther and change course to a larger extreme in a short period of time.
Faster running speed wouldn\'t generate much PC lag. The frame rate stays the same. If you\'ve played Morrowind you know you get the exact same FPS with your speed at 1 as you do with your speed at 100.
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Originally posted by Frarda
Thats right, however it would look like people are teleporting if they go too fast, because people can move farther and change course to a larger extreme in a short period of time.
Are you sure? Why isn\'t that happening when playing games
like UT or Q3? If there isn\'t enough bandwidth then the
teleporting would happen at a low movement speed to right?
Only that it wouldn\'t look as bad.
And how wide is the gap between the current movement
speed and what you call \"too fast\" ?
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Originally posted by ZappaZ
Originally posted by Frarda
Thats right, however it would look like people are teleporting if they go too fast, because people can move farther and change course to a larger extreme in a short period of time.
Are you sure? Why isn\'t that happening when playing games
like UT or Q3?
You don\'t go too fast in UT or Q3, you don\'t cause trouble with that. Those servers usually have enough bandwidth. If you play something that has cars like Halo or whatever you notice them jumping around, thats what is the issue.
Originally posted by ZappaZ If there isn\'t enough bandwidth then the
teleporting would happen at a low movement speed to right? Only that it wouldn\'t look as bad.
Your character would be \"predicted\" and if they aren\'t where they are when the server communicates your client again they teleport. So if you have a ping of 300 like me then they have .3 seconds to change direction and go other places, so its not a big issue unless they\'re going very fast or you get a higher ping.
Originally posted by ZappaZ
And how wide is the gap between the current movement
speed and what you call \"too fast\" ?
Since I haven\'t managed to walk without the game crashing yet, I don\'t know how fast you move in CB :(
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Originally posted by ZappaZ
Originally posted by Frarda
Thats right, however it would look like people are teleporting if they go too fast, because people can move farther and change course to a larger extreme in a short period of time.
Are you sure? Why isn\'t that happening when playing games
like UT or Q3? If there isn\'t enough bandwidth then the
teleporting would happen at a low movement speed to right?
Only that it wouldn\'t look as bad.
And how wide is the gap between the current movement
speed and what you call \"too fast\" ?
Though I don\'t think lag would be an issue with faster running speeds, I must say that you can\'t compare a MMO like PS, with thousands of people on one server, to games like UT or Q3, with 32 people to a server.
Frarda, I\'m not talking about going as fast as the cars in Halo lol. The movement speed in games like UT and Q3 would be exactly what I want.
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i think the speed is perfect, and i love that your walk by default and need a run key. I even hope theres stamina eventually that limits how long you can run run/jump before you have to sit down. maybe then walking and runn speed should be tweaked.
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well maybe instead of faster running speed you could have a short period of time for sprinting and evrytime you sprint you get better and longer periods of time for the sprinting but that\'s just an idea it sound better than just plain increasing the running speed. also there could be spells to increae your running speed (for a short period of time) but that has probably been suggested already. also maybe certain types of equipment could increase your running or walking speed but these ideas are probably have been suggested already anyway oh i just got another idea ( but it\'s probably been suggested) what about when you level up your speed can increase if you choose to increase it but anyway thats far to much to talk about see ya in the game
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I think the walking/running speed is fine for in the city, but outside it would be nice to move faster, so why not have some sort of mass transportation like a horse drawn train? (keeping in mind this game is fantasy) Then you can cross the land quickly by means of vehicle.
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Originally posted by |Zidewinder|
Originally posted by Theweakend
Ok lets think about this if you make them faster then you have to make the legs faster (althought I\'m not to possitive about this so correct me if I\'m wrong in any way) Which mean the desplay nedds to be showing a bunch of fast moving legs in a city or random trading area so I\'m sorry i would have to agree it would cause more lag but at the same time.... yes it is very annoying... Hay but look on the bright side atleast you can move :)
I\'m no 3D graphics professional, so I *could* be wrong, but I\'m pretty sure that\'s not how it works. It doesn\'t make any difference how fast or slowly something is moving on the screen, what causes (or doesn\'t cause) lag (of the video card variety) is the detail level of the object in terms of number of polygons, texture resolution, presence or absence of bump maps, specular effects, etc. For all the graphics card knows, everything on the screen is moving at 50000 miles per hour, and it\'s going to render it at X frames per second regardless. It redraws things the same number of times per second no matter how fast they\'re moving.
Again, I *could* be wrong, but I\'m fairly sure of this.
Now, faster movement might put a little bit more strain on the CPU, but I really don\'t think it would be noticable. :)
actually it does matter, speed increases frame rate.
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umm, i think you mean decrease, cuz increasing is good
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no, i work with minor graphics and when you put more frames in you have to load stuff faster, a walking animation might have up to 50 frames (sometimes more) so you are loading basicly a cycle of 50 pictures put in one file. but 3-d also has all directions so it increases size of the file. a higher frame rate will normally take longer to load a lower frame rate just gives the illusion of lag
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oh im sorry, when you said framerate i thought you were talking about something else, thanks for the correction
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its ok, did you think of latency? i don\'t know mutch about that other than in games online it makes the lag decrease sometimes
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i was thinking FPS, a good game runs at about 60 FPS where this game runs at about 23. If it runs at higher then the animation is smoother and results in better game play.
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Originally posted by Black_rose
no, i work with minor graphics and when you put more frames in you have to load stuff faster, a walking animation might have up to 50 frames (sometimes more) so you are loading basicly a cycle of 50 pictures put in one file. but 3-d also has all directions so it increases size of the file. a higher frame rate will normally take longer to load a lower frame rate just gives the illusion of lag
Changing the walking speed wont change the walk/run animation though, it will just make it go faster. Adding a sprinting animation would take more though.
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Three source of lag: Network, CPU and GPU.
With moden graphics card these days that are generally needed to play many popular games today which exploits the FX features (shaders) and large areas (millions of triangles, textures, etc) while maintaining high framerates. From what I seen on my friend\'s PC, PS does not make use of these heavy graphical intensive calculation features such as shaders, thus the frame rate should be very high which results in no tearing of the image.
With a very stastic world (few character models, objects, etc), the only real dynamic data would mostly be positional data and collision detection, thus the CPU of the client should not be hard pressed to update the dynamic data. On my friends PC while running PS, MSN, etc the CPU is utilized less than 25%. Thus the CPU and GPU is not the lag inducing component here, yet the view is still jerky.
I am receiving a ping delay of 1s on average (even on DSL) to the PS server, which is very high for any online game (use to 10 ms to 20 ms for various servers). It is the network speed that is causing the jerkiness. Increase in the movement speed only increases the network traffic slightly (most of the time insignificant) as most of the traffic consists of changing positions to clients and commands to server. Increasing the speed a little won\'t really make a difference when the network lag is large (greater than 500ms).
Thus a little increase (like 20% will help) in speed should not make a major change to the jerky view.
I been reading about 3D graphics, renderers, modern GPUs, etc for interest and what influences performance.
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All Chars will be equip with jet boots, don\'t worry! you will be able to explore the whole of Ylakium in a matter of seconds. Traveling with friends, battling against foes to get to ancent places, wondering what is over the horizon and any type of city trading wil be void........
There is no problem with the walking speed....
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I personally feel there is nothing wrong with the walking speed as the towns must seem far apart, why would someone put 2 towns within 10 min running time of each other? even in a game? Obviously later in the game development there will be faster forms of travel so this issue will be solved as the world gets bigger.
As for graphic issues, think about it this way, no matter how much each model moves between frames, for every frame everything is recalculated. Making models run faster would only involve making them move their legs farther inbetween frames and it gives the showing of moving faster, which is what our eyes want to see. To make it move faster would not cause it to think more and make those same 50 (just as an example) frames of motion in the animation play faster, but to play them over the same framerate and thus make the models move farther in between frames, unless ofcourse the graphics engine doesnt handle this efficently. But I am assuming CS works like any other graphics engine and thus does not try to play the animation faster by increasing how many have to play per second, but calcualting it out and making sure it ran at the same framerate but had the effect of looking like it was going faster. For in every frame even if a model is not moving, everything must be recalculated just as much as if it was moving.