PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Icefalcon on December 29, 2004, 01:50:48 am
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Right now, we spend PP on a trainer to train in Theoretic Knowledge. But how about learning from books? In Morrowind, if you read certain books, you gain levels in certain skills. The problem with that is that all you need to do is open the book, you don\'t actually have to read it.
I would like there to be books that will raise your Knowledge, only after reading the story. At the end, after flipping throught the pages, there would be a little quiz, just to make sure you read it and deserve the Knowledge you are about to receive. The quiz would be asimple, one or two question multiple choice. If you get the right answer, your Knowledge increases, if you get the wrong answer, you get to sit there and wish you read the book. Now, the quiz is only available the first time you open the book, so there is no cheating.
I think this would be a pretty cool feature to be added in later releases. It promotes roleplaying, and is a nice addition to the current training system.
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I like this idea! The whole quiz thing would definaly be cool, especially if there were 9 questions, and only 3 random ones would play for a specific players, that would decrease cheating by telling others the answers. Maybe as another idea books could tell you vital secrets on how to kill certain monsters like \"Type /gouge eye while attacking the one eye rat to make it give less damage\" That would be awesome IMO.
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Yes, random questions would further decrease cheating. Good idea. And yes, there should be some info in books that you can\'t find elsewhere. Makes you want to read them doesn\'t it. 8)
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... and only those who had read the books would be able to use those special commands otherwise they\'ll be common knowledge in 5min :)
What about book related Plevling?
Someone in a guild gathering a boatload and then pass it among their own?
Maybe the books selfdestruct after someone learned the skill, making each book a nice quest reward?
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If there is good info like that in the books, the policy on the secrets should be as strict or more strict than the policy on the quests. No guides or faqs telling all the book\'s info, that would ruin the fun.
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somehow there always seem to pop up faqs and guides anyway :(
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Originally posted by ZappaZ
somehow there always seem to pop up faqs and guides anyway :(
I dissagree, although the MB community was somewhat small, it still lasted a full year with no faqs or guides on the quests. Pretty successfull I\'d say. Then again there weren\'t any rewards, but I\'m sure the devs might as well try with this idea.
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Originally posted by ZappaZ
What about book related Plevling?
Someone in a guild gathering a boatload and then pass it among their own?
Heh, why not? Share the knowledge, its not powerleveling. Thats what the AO is all about.
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Ah, sorry im new since the CB release, didn\'t get in on the MB one, thats admirable since iv\'e never seen that in an mmorpg before.
Problem is that then and now are very different, now anyone can play and that includes people who dosn\'t give a rats behind about RP, only about being the best (or something like that, never understood them tho..)
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They will feel out of place and find a different game. ;)
And Planeshift can take legal action agains anyone who provides guids and FAQs. I don\'t think we will have too much of a problem with that.
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Anyone could play MB, too.
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Pretty nice idea, although I have to point out that there are already two books inside the library that provide useful ingame information, Gorbiak would agree with me :)
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Heh, didn\'t even knew you could read books... But on topic, that would be quite a nice idea. But imagine, after some players heard of the book, suddenly the place is filled with people camping in a row to get to read the book... Not a real nice thought.
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What would be if the library would take a entrace fee and when it is filled they wouldnt let someone in?
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Reading books and gaining knowladge is a tottally good idea, but it should have a few minor rules...
1) Some books need to be bought to be read
2) Some books can not be understood by a player {becouse of lack of EXP in a ceratin area}, thus a player cant read them till they have gained the necessary knowladge
3) It should take long periods of time to read a book {It would be fair, and realistic}
4) It does not have to be always books, but maybe something like a diary, a newslatter, a parchment, or something.
5) Some books may have pages missing, so to read it you must find the missing pages
6) Not all written knowladge should come from the library
7) Err... Library is a bit toooo small?
8) Some books should be closed {magically, with a lock, or something} so you would need to open em\' to read em\'
9) Some books should have hidden meanings and secrets
Welll, that is all I can come up with. Whacha think? Good? Useless?
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What happens after the first player reads the book? Will the next one be able to get the knowledge from it? I think he shouldn\'t. The problem is how can you do that? Except from destroying the book after reading it which is a rather bad idea, you could just say that the magic on the book has been discharged and the book is unreadable or even a blank book. This way it could be able to seperate the new books from the blank ones. A book that can teach something could contain a title while a used book could just be \"a blank book\".
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Depends on the magic...
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1) Some books need to be bought to be read
Yes, if books are for sale, they must be sold before they can be read.
2) Some books can not be understood by a player {becouse of lack of EXP in a ceratin area}, thus a player cant read them till they have gained the necessary knowladge
Hmm, interesting idea. This could also be extended to languages. If you have no knowledge of a certain ancient language, all you would see is wierd symbols, but as you begin to learn the language (ranks up), the little symbols are translated into english. :P
3) It should take long periods of time to read a book {It would be fair, and realistic}
Hmm, yes. Long enough to discourage noobs. 8) How long do you consider \"long?\" 10-20 pages?
4) It does not have to be always books, but maybe something like a diary, a newslatter, a parchment, or something.
Diary, maybe. I\'ve never learned anything useful from a diary, but...
Newsletter, no, those are only used to inform. Hence newsletter.
Parchment, sure.
5) Some books may have pages missing, so to read it you must find the missing pages
Possibly
6) Not all written knowladge should come from the library
Of course not.
7) Err... Library is a bit toooo small?
Don\'t worry, its still in Alpha Testing.
8) Some books should be closed {magically, with a lock, or something} so you would need to open em\' to read em\'
Sure
9) Some books should have hidden meanings and secrets
Definately.
Welll, that is all I can come up with. Whacha think? Good? Useless?
Good.
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this is a great idea but how about if the book\'s were rare and only found in out of the way place\'s cave\'s ..ruin\'s etc..
then once you have read the book it dissapear\'s so you can\'t give it to someone else.
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ooo ooo devs put this in put it in its a good idea!
Thats must have helped somehow :P
As you can see I support this idea :)
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First post so do not take any of this personally if I offend.
Another option would be to put flags on all pages of certain tomes, if someone gathers all the flags then they get a bonus. Only if they spend x amount of time on that page. IE. take the time to read the page and it gives you a flag. turn the page and read it get another flag. Each book has x numbers of flags, if all are obtained, then the character gains knowledge. This allows each person to take a book and read it at their leisure.
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Originally posted by Silverthorne
First post so do not take any of this personally if I offend.
Another option would be to put flags on all pages of certain tomes, if someone gathers all the flags then they get a bonus. Only if they spend x amount of time on that page. IE. take the time to read the page and it gives you a flag. turn the page and read it get another flag. Each book has x numbers of flags, if all are obtained, then the character gains knowledge. This allows each person to take a book and read it at their leisure.
BAD IDEA, PERIOD. You are basicly saying that all the books will be readable. Who is gonna write a buch of gibberish? Who is going to come up with 50 books on Alchemy, or or 25,000 books on Summoning Beasts? Or the pages should be empty? That would be boring waiting and clicking!
When instructed to read your cherecter will take the book and start reading the book; you will see your cherecter reading and wait till he/she/kran finishes... Errrmm, progress bar would be nice...
Also, if book reading will be implanted; then you should add the book reading skill... the more of the skill you have the faster you can read books...
Whatcha think?
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Some of you are saying these books that you gain knowledge from should disappear after use. This is certainly not how I think it should work.
These books that you get knowledge from, lets call them special books, are not just your common book. If you read a normal book, all you get is the story. Now mixed in with all these normal books found throughout Yliakum are these special books.
When you read a special book for the first time, you take the quiz and gain knowledge. After you get the knowledge, you can read the book over as many times you wan\'t, you just can\'t take the quiz again.
This is true for every person. You can sell the book to others for them to read and gain the same insight you received. But they can only take the quiz once as well. If they don\'t take the quiz (ie. open the book, but don\'t read it), tough luck, they miss out.
Now, you can\'t tell the difference between special books and normal books until you get to the end. This will force players to read every book they find in hopes that they will find one of these special books and gain knowledge.
Note: When I refer to \"knowledge,\" I mean the programmable skill knowledge.
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Originally posted by Enter_the_Xero
BAD IDEA, PERIOD. You are basicly saying that all the books will be readable. Who is gonna write a buch of gibberish? Who is going to come up with 50 books on Alchemy, or or 25,000 books on Summoning Beasts? Or the pages should be empty?
They did it in morrowind, and that game only took a year and a half of developement. Plenty of time. And if you wouldn\'t read it, its your loss. :rolleyes:
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hmm .. sounds good :-)
but even in real world you can learn from books .. maybe a book about C++ Programming .. you can learn from ..
maybe you can get a book from the library for a short amount of time .. then it magicaly respawns .. the books are used to learn an initial skill which have to be trained afterwards .. as like it is in the real world also .. as like you get progress points for a special skill cause this progress points are need to be trained by a trainer of some kind ..
filling the books with a lot of text might be simpler by using text block templates .. or even something out of the faq ..
nice point .. some folks don\'t even read the faq about magic, skill leveling etc. .. and this folk could be send to the library (cause i see a lot people asking,m where are the rats, where can i buy that, how do i do ... ) .. all yo can do is point out to the library :-)
even if you can learn from books i dont think all people sit in circels around to read one book after another ... moste people of this genre of game like hunting monsters .. not sitting around reading books .. so the problem of waiting in line to get the book to read isn\'t realy given ..
the point about the language .. maybe you havent use crazy symbols .. mix up only the chars of the words .. and as more practice you have in reading an language as less is the mixing value .. so you can gues some simple and short words. This way you also deal with different real languages (maybe sometimes this game is translated in german or french ?) and you havn\'t to recode that, cause a mixing-word-cahr function will always do its job in 5-8 line of code ;-)
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I was not saying that all books give knowledge. Books that give knowledge, have pages tagged.
Other options.
1. I pick up a book that gives a rudimentary skill in knife making. (I know not implemented.) And I can learn from that book only the first level of knife making. Later on I find the book again, having a skill four in knife making. Oh well, the book gives me nothing, as I already know that basics. But I can give the book to someone else who can use it. If the book is too advanced for me it also does nothing, I have two levels of skill in knife making and the book teaches level 5. It will be too advanced for me to learn anything out of.
2. I read a book that teaches me the theory for mage craft, not the practical exercises. I have to practice the skills to gain the level in them. (Realistic, and possible.)
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that sound good for me .. the skill book which give the theoretical starting point which shoudl be then shaped by practicing ..
the knife making .. mhh maybe like the practicing points .. which give a blue line the more we have .. but only the practice points of books related to one skill only and not to all skills .. maybe possible to implement ?
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It should depend on the skill, for example combat skills shouldn\'t be book learned, the theory component would correspond to knowledge of techniques and combat theory - most of which will need to be demonstrated personally.
However, other crafts such as alchemy invite this approach, especially if the book can only teach you a given level. Higher level alchemists and wizards will need to travel to research arcane lore. However, they shouldn\'t require this for every level, just now and then they\'ll need to seek a special manual. At higher levels maybe they could advance for the other levels by experimenting in their studies (with costs for whatever they may use to experiment).
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Originally posted by Silverthorne
1. I pick up a book that gives a rudimentary skill in knife making. (I know not implemented.) And I can learn from that book only the first level of knife making. Later on I find the book again, having a skill four in knife making. Oh well, the book gives me nothing, as I already know that basics. But I can give the book to someone else who can use it. If the book is too advanced for me it also does nothing, I have two levels of skill in knife making and the book teaches level 5. It will be too advanced for me to learn anything out of.
2. I read a book that teaches me the theory for mage craft, not the practical exercises. I have to practice the skills to gain the level in them. (Realistic, and possible.)
Yes, very good additions...
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Hey, I think intelligence should come into play. Only people with a certain level of intelligence can read. This will benefit intelligence and will inspire it to all classes even classes who dont need it. To see if your intelligence level is enough, open the book, and it will either say \"This book is just right for you\" or \"You cant understand this book\". If you understand it, it comes out right. If you can\'t, it all appears in gibberish. This makes it better because since your character cant understand it, why should you?
Also riddle-based books require intelligence. Just like the manual says \"How fast it takes you to solve a riddle\". If you dont have enough intelligence, you wont get it and neither will you. The riddle will appear differently. If you are quite smart and educated, it will come out easy and understandable. If you have just the right amount of intelligence, YOU have to figure it out.
Ok guys thanks for reading, please tell me what you think!
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Originally posted by Icefalcon
Some of you are saying these books that you gain knowledge from should disappear after use. This is certainly not how I think it should work...
I agree, but I think instead of selling a book it should have to be passed along only in your guild, and only if you have a certain rank in the guild. That way the specific knowledge of a book, where there are maybe only a few of a certain volume, will become even rarer. Maybe a skill will exist to copy a volume if you have enough paper, inteligence, and exp in the skill you are copying the book about. That volume would be sold outside the guild, but a copy can only be made once by a certain player, and there would be a limit to the number copies that could exist, and a member based number of books that a guild can own. Therefore guild masters and members are encouraged to get as many members in their guild as they can, and the books owned by a guild would be a good incentive for people to join a guild. eg. My guild, Silver Rain (heh, couldn\'t resist a plug), is based on helping other players and each other, but not at the cost of the game. Maybe Silver Rain obtains a book containing knowledge of a lost glyph in the Crystal Way, and one or two other copies exist. The easiest way to obtain knowledge of this Crystal Way glyph is to join Silver Rain. As long as you are a member of Silver Rain, or own a copy of the tome, you have the ability to use the glyph. If you break the rules of the guild and are removed, or if you quit you lose the ability to use the glyph. This encourages guilds to be more close-knit in their beliefs as well.
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Right now, we spend PP on a trainer to train in Theoretic Knowledge. But how about learning from books? In Morrowind, if you read certain books, you gain levels in certain skills. The problem with that is that all you need to do is open the book, you don\'t actually have to read it.
I would like there to be books that will raise your Knowledge, only after reading the story. At the end, after flipping throught the pages, there would be a little quiz, just to make sure you read it and deserve the Knowledge you are about to receive. The quiz would be asimple, one or two question multiple choice. If you get the right answer, your Knowledge increases, if you get the wrong answer, you get to sit there and wish you read the book. Now, the quiz is only available the first time you open the book, so there is no cheating.
I think this would be a pretty cool feature to be added in later releases. It promotes roleplaying, and is a nice addition to the current training system.
i love that idea :D. it\'s be fantastic used in conjunction with the anti-cheating idea, and taking into account the whole literacy/level it\'ll teach angles
Maybe Silver Rain obtains a book containing knowledge of a lost glyph in the Crystal Way, and one or two other copies exist. The easiest way to obtain knowledge of this Crystal Way glyph is to join Silver Rain. As long as you are a member of Silver Rain, or own a copy of the tome, you have the ability to use the glyph. If you break the rules of the guild and are removed, or if you quit you lose the ability to use the glyph. This encourages guilds to be more close-knit in their beliefs as well.
while good in theory, i\'m not sure that part would work, afterall, once you learn something it\'s impossible to forget, so long as you use it daily.
1. I pick up a book that gives a rudimentary skill in knife making. (I know not implemented.) And I can learn from that book only the first level of knife making. Later on I find the book again, having a skill four in knife making. Oh well, the book gives me nothing, as I already know that basics. But I can give the book to someone else who can use it. If the book is too advanced for me it also does nothing, I have two levels of skill in knife making and the book teaches level 5. It will be too advanced for me to learn anything out of.
2. I read a book that teaches me the theory for mage craft, not the practical...
Excellent ideas :)
Hey, I think intelligence should come into play. Only people with a certain level of intelligence can read.
Good in theory, but you forgot one small thing. Reading is a skill that you have to learn. Being intelligent doesn\'t mean you can read (i know some pretty stupid people, and they can read rather well). Thats not to say it\'s a bad idea though, just instead of reading ability relying solely on intelligence, add a reading skill, which as you gain levels in the skill, your char starts understanding the written word. Intelligence could come into play as a cap for the max level of the skill, say.. 36 intelligence = max reading level of 6, at such a level some of the larger words would still be hard to understand.
I can think of many other possibilities, for example, people mentioned languages. Now, i\'m not even going to try and say it\'ll be easy to set up, as the languages would have to be created, but if languages are implemented, the language skills could become trainable after the character is literate. For example, once they can understand the basic books, the higher levels of intelligence, and language skill (could maybe have a sub-window for the language you wish to focus on) would open the way for higher reading levels, which would work with the language skill to make foreign books readable.
Maybe a skill will exist to copy a volume if you have enough paper, inteligence, and exp in the skill you are copying the book about.
Scribing should definately be considered, and intelligence should definately be a factor, but you shouldn\'t require knowledge in the field the book is about if you\'re just copying it (providing you can read it of course)
*glances back at what he just said* le sigh.. i did it again. eh well, i\'m sure anyone that doesn\'t like my idea regarding intelligence and proposed skills of reading and language being co-dependant will tell me. :P
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I reaaly think books are a good idea. Here more details about my opinion:
- There should be 3 ways to learn: Theorical (by books), therical (by teaching), pratical.
- Some skills could requiert only one of the two theorical ways (or both), but pratical would be necessary.
- The order to learn would be important: so you\'d have to first read book(s), learn by a teacher and then practice it; when books are unecessary, it would be like it is now.
- for exemple, a book could have a range of what it can learn (let\'s say Crystal Way, 1-5) and a minimum intellgience to understand to book (well, combat skill won\'t need books, so...). Book reading could be a skill that would influence the rapidity of reading (learned by teaching, and by practice (that would be when you read story or knowledge books)
- When you read books, there would be a jauge that tells you the reading progression. You could stop whenever you want and continue after. When it\'s over, you are ready to learn with the teacher.
- What a book can learn and how much intelligence it takes to understand it could be hide to players, by telling the same message (\"You can\'t understand this book\", for exemple). We could have an idea about this with the price the book cost :D.
- Some books could be very rares and giving after very hard and long quests.
- It would not be hard to implement because it\'s almost the same system; it\'s just a new similar thing to add :D
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So where can one find the book on Gorbiak? Does it still exist?
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Originally posted by Andrek
So where can one find the book on Gorbiak? Does it still exist?
Checked the shelves of the library already?
I already read every book in it and the creatures language one is still there ^^
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Hmm.. I rather like this idea. :D
I don\'t think the flags idea would be a good one, since everybody reads at a different pace and it would get to be darn boring. And I\'m sure a great number of talented story writers in the Communative Storywriting section would voluenteer to write the books.. :D
I like the quiz idea best.
Intelligence shouldn\'t come into play as it would cause the ways to become imbalanced (Int would become more valuable than char or will).
Actually I don\'t think int should be a mental stat, it should be changed to Determination or something, then int should be a global mental stat as well as a stat for many other things (Including reading and mabye the effectiveness of each training knowledge level etc.)
I think..
Books are Theoretical Knowledge,
Training is Practial Knowledge,
Practice is Skill.
Oh and yeh, scribing would definitely be considered but the more difficult the book the difficutly in scribing it would rise EXPONENTIALLY to prevent copying of rare books. Because just dissalowing it would be weird and unrealistic.
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Sounds like a good idea. It\'s not hard, it doesnt involve fancy 3d graphics and it would add to realism and freedom for players to evolve. The popquiz idea is a must-implement!
Also, maybe not all characters know how to read.. It could depend on intelligence, and perhaps also a reading skill. finally those big bulky Krans will pay for their stupidity. Or they could take evening classes.
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Buying books, questing for books, being-of-high-enough level-and-only-in-the-right-guild-so-that-those-who-played-ps-first-will-always-retain-in-game-advantage-rather-than-making-game-open-to-all-of-us.... BAH!
Your just going to change \"Kill mobs - Get loot -level up\" paradigm into \"Kill mobs- getloot - read books - level up\".
Look, I know that many of you have powerful charachters because you have \"invested\" thousands of hours powerkilling in the arena... That is the wrong way... Stop having a fit everytime you think someone might get a loint of skill in something without having to \"earn\" it by killing stuff.
In a fully developed game, having the whole population devoted to kill and loot activities would be stupid anyway. Having to kill 20k rats to get a decent skill in mining is simply retarded.
Have books persistent in specific locations, one use per charachter, gives (with quiz) one points in one skill in one range. Make ranges like 5 points, so that you can use (skill)book one to get a point as long as your skill is 0-4, (skill)book two: 5-9, etc.
Yes, without ever drawing your sword you should be able to get 1/5 of your advancement from reading as long as you seek out all the books in the game.
And yes, you should be able to pass on info about the location of books. If it is out of game, it is a spoiler, and the traditional rules apply. If it is an in game hint, that is roleplay of training/helping out younger people, and should be encouraged.
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You should need a book for questing to give information or clues on where to get something, also you should get a magazine or book telling you how to make a weapon like on FF8 but you have to obtain the magazine/book to make the items it my first post so it just an idea
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hm darkwoot I think the devs are planning to do so already. yay!
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its funny... Morrowind seems to be a great source for these ideas... not to flame or anything because i think morrowind SHOULD set an example... anyways back to the topic
i think once you read a book it would disolve thus preventing circulation... and the books would appeaar in random locations so that there wouldnt be lines and camping... but of course they would appear in certain ranges of certain areas... therefore it couldnt just appear in the middle of the plaza... and rare books should be found DEEP in ruins and caves past bosses and such... and there should be volumes of books... like Alchemy Of Billy Vol:I Vol:II Vol:III Vol:IV and such...
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Yeah..although not quite sure about the cave thing, I don\'t see why trepors would want to guard a book :P
For rare books I\'d say you would need to complete very difficult quests or go to dangerous ruins of destroyed cities and find the ancient library.. that would be better I\'d say.
And books shouldn\'t move around, I think Jayose would murder you if you put the book back in the wrong shelf. :P And books shouldn\'t dissolve either as Jayose would put your head on a hook in the library attic if you made the book dissolve.. :P
Instead of those, to prevent book-camping I guess there would be multiple copies of the book so everybody can read it at once.. and the library shouldn\'t have books That great, just a little useful, and mabye you need to read some of them to start a new skill.. (\"How to make a simple dagger\", \"Forging metals\", and \"Blacksmith\'s guide\" to start a career in smithying). None of them would give you huge bonuses.
As for the rare books, you should be able to take it out and share it and the rest would be warded, more quests would be made to get more and more books. those books would then always be in circulation. Copies could be made and sold but as I said earlier the higher the book level the scribing skill needed would rise exponentially..