PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Under the moon on January 01, 2005, 07:38:46 am
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* /dig for gold /dig for iron /dig for gold /dig for iron /dig for gold /dig for iron *
Sounds pretty boring, doesn\'t it. And easily bot-able.
So why can\'t mining be fun? Could it not be turned into some sort of un-bot-able mini-game? Like some sort of Tetris or PPuzzle League (god that game was addictive). Dirt would be useless brown blocks while ore would be different shiny and puuurdy colors. Line up so many gold/iron/copper/etc blocks, they disappear, and you get one unit of that ore. Then you could mine for more than one type of ore at a time. Different areas could yield varying amounts of ore blocks, or veins. If too many \'dirt\' blocks accumulate and reach the top, your \'mine\' collapses and you have to start over. Pick durability could affect the speed at which you can move or switch blocks. Race differences would effect this also (dwarves are little dirt grubbers after all :D ).
This is just one example of how tedious tasks could be made fun. Who wants to spend hours typing */dig whatever*. We are supposed to be role-playing and having fun here, not having boring on-line jobs, aren\'t we? Otherwise, what\'s the point?
Ya, I know, the Devs are up to their ears in work, and can\'t be bothered with this, but that shouldn\'t stop us from discussing the problem.
*puts on his flame-proof suit of crystal scale*
I\'m ready.
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*takes out a adamantium chain saw with an automatic starter*
Your mini game idea should remain a minigame for those that would like to have fun while trying to mine, you can even make it give more valuable minerals as a bonus. As you speak I am minning and making frieldly chatter with other miners in the area, mining can be a fun enjoyable task, just like a fishing trip, you just need to know how to enjoy the area.
If you didn\'t like mining then you shouldn\'t be mining at all. This is an RPG after all, since this game is in development not all roles are well covered at the moment, maybe you can find a new profitable interest in the future.
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Yes! Dwars need to start off with at least 1 mining skill. Thats what they all do for a living... :P
I think we need a system change too
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I don\'t think it has to be that hard. Just have it similar to the way they have it in World of Warcraft. Sorry but i feel the way they have it is very hard to bot and noticable when it is botted. Have mine deposits/rocks spring up randomly which should be no more harder to script than the enemy spawn script. Once a player sees the deposit it just has to type \'/dig\'. There is no need for /dig gold or /dig iron. The resources will be assigned a number according to their rarity. iron = 10, gold = 20, and platinum = 30.
Once the /dig command is executed a random number between 1-20 is generated which is added to your level. This then determines what you mine. On a roll where you can either get 1 gold or 2 iron this would be assigned randomly via another roll. Higher the level in mining the ability to mine rarer resources increases. This would make leveling up more rewarding.
An example of this would be a level 10 miner executes /dig and gets a 10. This ten is added to his level to get twenty. The twenty could then be split two ways: 2 irons or 1 gold. Another random number between 0-1 give a 0 so i get 2 irons. If i got a 1 then i would have recieved the 1 gold. This would only get more difficult as the number of levels and resources increase.
They way they have it now is very easy to bot. Too easy if you ask me. A guy running from ore deposit to ore deposit for an extend amount of time is sure to get the attention of not only the GM but the other players. A player hiding behind a rock botting is not.
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Yes, but is that fun? The only reason I (and you, admit it) play games is for entertainment. If I have to spend hours typing dig or killing rats to get just enough money to roleplay a little, it can be discouraging.
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Originally posted by Under the moon
Yes, but is that fun? The only reason I (and you, admit it) play games is for entertainment. If I have to spend hours typing dig or killing rats to get just enough money to roleplay a little, it can be discouraging.
I hope they don\'t have the spawn time set to the same amount of time as they have now. You would not be standing in the same spot like you do now for rats. It would take hours for that mine deposit to reappear.
Mining would be more of \"on the way to doing quest X i found some ore deposit on the side of the road and mined\" instead of sitting for hours at place Y and type \'/dig\' or click your mouse.
As for the money problem, maybe more drops or better drops from the enemies? More money from completing a quest? Increased price from ore? I did find it interesting that i got more trias from a rat than gold ore (6 = rat pelts + 1 = rat eye, 6 = gold ore). Money wise it makes no sense to mine gold ore. I am not sure how much trias you got for Platinum because i never found it.
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Platinum does exist! (thanks Zet) and the smithy buy\'s em\' for 12 Tria apiece :D
So that makes mining conserably more profitable than rat killing! So if your after Tria for training & have loads of PP\'s then leave the poor lil\' rats to the lvl 1 weapon folks.
Don\'t want to give out the location but if you \"/dig platinum\" in the three mining locations your sure to come across it soon enough :P
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As you speak I am minning and making frieldly chatter with other miners in the area, mining can be a fun enjoyable task, just like a fishing trip, you just need to know how to enjoy the area.
That argument is flawed. Wait until you\'re \'chatting\' with a bunch of botting miners next to you. Odds are, with mining being as easily scriptable as now, that a large group of people will go into \'mining mode\' and chat somewhere else [outside the game?] , actually they\'ll probably go to sleep.
(I come from a MUD where mining worked exactly like this, except it\'s all text, trust me, people do not become mysteriously chatty with a well written mining bot)
I also agree with the \'spawning\' idea of minerals, although i\'m more for a type of setting where you actually -see- a mining opportunity [i.e. crystals embedded into the rock] and then having it -deplete-. Not sure how\'s it in WoW/WC3 , but i\'d think having a single large deposit spawn randomly instead of alot of small deposits would be better.
Reason? Large deposit will facilitate a group mining scenario [so you have 10 payers mining it at the same time] instead of a solo guy walking around for a small desposit. So essentially it facilitates the \'enjoying chatting\' scenario alot more , because all the people mining at the spot can\'t be botting [although they can turn their bots on for a brief period before the deposit depletes].
And if you want to go wild with this, create a mining skill which is required to actually see/find these deposits :P [i.e. if the skill is high enough you can visibly spot a gold vein or some rare metal deposit]. Guess who\'s going to be very popular at leading mining expeditions then :P
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Originally posted by Sulatorc
Once the /dig command is executed a random number between 1-20 is generated which is added to your level. This then determines what you mine. On a roll where you can either get 1 gold or 2 iron this would be assigned randomly via another roll. Higher the level in mining the ability to mine rarer resources increases. This would make leveling up more rewarding
but not if i WANT iron (blacksmiths eat the stuff for breakfast ya know) so if i got high level at mining then iron would become rare for me to get XD but the random deposit idea is great.. with a little work.. a few changes would be A. make the spawned depsoit of one metal and one metal only B. make the deposit have \"HP\" every time somebody tries to mine it that gets lower (even if one fails) then when the \"hp\" is 0 then the mine is spent up and C. make iron spawn in a general are gold in a area and so on (certian regions in the wolrd are noted as having many deposits of iron or gold or whatnot in one place) (but then again anything could rarely spawn anywhere so ;).)
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Personally i don\'t like the idea of spawning mines, it\'s just too irrealistic. Instead, the idea of crystal filled walls of rock or boulders which can be spotted by skilled chars is very good.
Also, mines should someday get depleted.. this way skilled miners could want to create some lobby or their personal mining guild, hiring workers and guards to prevent ore stealing and going to explore new areas to find other suitable digging places, others could go venturing acting freelance and so on, creating patterns of role playing politics and relations.
Anyway, i agree with the need to change the system to something less boring, the idea of the little game is really interesting :D
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mining defiantly needs to be changed, so you can only mine like 20 times a day or something,... and more if your mining skill is higher. At the moment it just rewards people for sitting there typing /dig gold, or if they\'re clever using a bot to do it.
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Yes, you can either increase the fun aspect by including some form of surprise effect (like either spawning mines, which I don\'t like, or by adding the visual indication, which I\'d really like), or decrease the tediousness of the process.
As I have stated on another thread, I think that it would be a good idea to severely increase the duration that one single mining operation (i.e., one \"/dig XY\") lasts, and at the same time increase the outcome by the same factor. This way mining would be more realistic and less repetitive, while loosing nothing. It would increase the chatting opportunities since you don\'t need to keep typing and clicking. Obviously, it\'d still be bottable, but that\'s not my point ATM. My point is that it\'d reduce the use of bots since the \"bot\" is implemented in the client, but only to the extent of bridging some minutes, not endlessly.
Also, I like the idea of having the mines deplete some day (though they should last RL months, to allow for stable economies and politics to form). This should be like IRL: the mine will yield less and less, until it\'s not worth the effort anymore, except for the most desperate or causal miner / mining apprentice, or someone who just needs very few ore.
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I don\'t really have that much to add, as I haven\'t tried mining out other then testing it and haven\'t mined in any other games.
But, I remember when mining was something that the developers used to be definately against simply because of the reasons stated above (too simple, mind deadening).
I just find it funny that it somehow went from that to being one of the first things actually implemented into the game. :baby:
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I think a good way to do mining would be to put mining spots in very deep caves, easy to discover (veins that any miner can see or books/NPCs pointing to the spot) BUT these caves are infested of monsters that spawn quite fast and with very random power (like a quite invincible monster spawns every two hours, normal monsters every two minutes. Make the monsters patrol in the mine and be somewhat stealth (so miners are taken by surprise) and you can turn out the current system in an interesting challenge.
For mining being implemented so quickly i guess it is because it\'s easy to implement ;)
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I think there should be a mining mini game, it would be a great idea. But this mini game has to be very dependent on your mining skill. It must be MUCH easier for someone who has the 19th level of mining, and MUCH harder for for someone at 0 or 1.
For example the mining game could consist of a simple 2d game that shows your character and the dirt under him and unknowledgable items. As you click the deeper you make a hole untill you finally get to the object you saw deep in the ground. As your mining skill goes up, it will 1) be faster diging (less clicks) and 2) Less times the object you dug down to will be useless clumps of dirt etc.
Love the idea, think we should do a whole bunch of mini game type things like bartender game, a fishing game, alchemist game, bookeeper game, etc. Maybe a bad idea to some, and would the game seem kind of cartoony, but it would be a nice niche to Planeshift.
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make it unbotable yes,
also make it more of chance,
diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, Giant radioactive mice attack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging, diggin, digging,
or make it real minning where you are actually making mines and stuff and chances are slim but pay is big
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HA! Whemy, that\'s DIG DUG! :D :D Oh man, the good old days of one joystick and one button. But ya, you get my drift.
I like the idea of digging up creatures too. Nothing like a little danger to liven things up.
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mabye finding rare artifacts and skelitons or corpses at a graveyard.
i was only around for four of the glory days of the simple sprite based games..... man i wish a new ol\' school mario would come out.. i would also like another tomba, that game was great
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There is now a 1m movement requirement between digging attempts to cut down on boting!
See:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/planeshift/planeshift/docs/history.txt?view=auto
Have fun!
Meketh
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Nice step, but mining gets more and more annoying this way...
Edit: And not to forget, using a bot will still be possible!
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yeah, this dosnt stop you using a bot just makes mining more annoying....
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No mandatory mini games please! I hate cartoony things! It would be a shame to let PS degrade into this kind of arcade crap.
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***agrees with what it has been said about the new no-twice-in-the-row***. It slows the mining process which is good (4k trias per hour is just insane) but it makes the thing even more boring because before you could easily dig at a good rate and chat at the same time/browse forums.
I guess i even prefered MB hunting to the current digging system... :(
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I suppose it\'s a good step to \'force\' players to actively move around now. Althoug i would still prefer seeing messages like this :
/dig for gold \"
\"You could not find any gold here\"
Move a bit to the left
/dig for gold\"
\"You\'ve found a MINOR vein of gold!!\"
[minor might mean only 3 or 4 ores can be mined before you have to move ]
/mine gold\"
\"You failed to mine any gold\"
/mine gold
\"You successfully mine an ore of gold\"
[amount you can mine in a single mining op can depend on
mining skill]
/mine gold
\"There does not seem to be any gold here\"
[gold depleted]
..and you move on to find another vein by doing a search and then mining.
Now of course this is bottable, assuming movement is bottable. Unless of course you replace the \"/search for gold\" with a visible \"sighting\". I doubt you can bot something you can only see on the screen [instead of text].
This will require gold deposits to \'spawn\' just like mobs [and randomly too]. I\'m sure you can restrict the spawning to a particular rock wall. So you have a situation that everyone will still go to mine at a particular place [i.e. magic shop] but if everyone is mining along the same rock wall the entire wall will \'run empty\' and then respawn after a some time. The Major/minor veins can spawn randomly along the rock wall.
In the end, it\'s similar to the \'can\'t dig here twice\' except for two main differences:
1. You can actually dig twice depending on the \'size\' of the deposit [i.e. 20 ores if it\'s a major vein, deposits also reset if someone only digged halfway and left]
2. Currently the \'no-twice\' system can be \'fooled\' by moving left and digging and then moving back to the right and digging at the original spot [so you just move left and right all the time = easily scriptable]. Spawn/depletion of ore will require alot more movement than \'left-right\' which is pretty hard to bot i\'d say ESPECIALLY if there\'s other players using up \'dig-slots\' .
So even if you don\'t want to visibly show dig-spots and only use a type \"Search for gold first\" command then you will need a really good bot to move along an entire wall [and probably walk across the room to another wall eventually].
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Why not just have monsters protect the mines? That way if you have a bot, you just get killed by the monster.
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I agree with you Hurleybird. It\'s what i proposed a few posts ago but it seemed people thought it made more luck enter in the place. As if you must always success...
I\'m not sure about diabolus system though. as far as i\'m concerned, this system suffers the main flaw of the current one:
- boring, repetitive, brainless.
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Originally posted by Seytra
No mandatory mini games please! I hate cartoony things! It would be a shame to let PS degrade into this kind of arcade crap.
Hold on there Seytra, I never said anything about cartoony. I was imagining a high quality system with realistic textures and immersive play, something you need intelligence to play. Nothing remotely arcade-like.
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I agree with you Hurleybird. It\'s what i proposed a few posts ago but it seemed people thought it made more luck enter in the place. As if you must always success...
I\'m not sure about diabolus system though. as far as i\'m concerned, this system suffers the main flaw of the current one:
- boring, repetitive, brainless.
Heh, considering that mining in reality is also rather boring and brainless i doubt a game trying to be somewhat \'realistic\' will suddenly make mining fun [otherwise it will no longer be mining?].
Mini-games might work or might not work, i can\'t really say. The latest Leisure suit larry did it, and even though the mini-games are fun, it actually detracted from the \'what are you really trying to do\' part of the game. In other words, the game have some plotline/big picture and here you are playing tetris for hours wthin another game. \"Game within game syndrome?\" Almost reminds me of the Matrix...you play an MMORPG to escape reality and then the game is too boring you play a game WITHIN the game to escape THAT ...somewhat ironic :P
I am however for KOTOR types of mini-games related to gambling/cards/racing whatever. The mini-game is not a means to escape some task, it IS the task itself. I.e. playing poker to make money vs. playing poker to mine gold and THEN make money from the mining. Simply put, rather build a Casino/Betting Arena/Circus to play mini-games.
As for monsters, also tricky but might work under certain circumstances. The scenario i expect would be that of a \'mine guards\' appearing. In other words you will get people that simply kill those mobs near mines for a fee while you turn on your bot and go to sleep. The \'mine guards\' will gain XP and protect the botting miners at the same time. [At least that\'s what i would be doing, imagine the cash fighters will be making].
I\'m not sure which direction PS will be going regarding jobs/careers. But if Ultima Online is anything to go by, you had the scenario where people would simply become expert miners/blacksmiths and be pretty crap at fighting [in fact they never fight, they pleasure themselves in the ability to make the best weapons or find the rarest ores because no one else wants to do it] . So if PS will have a career system then forcing \'expert fighting\' abilities to do \'baking\' or \'pottery\' or \'mining\' might be a stretch.
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Originally posted by Under the moon
Hold on there Seytra, I never said anything about cartoony. I was imagining a high quality system with realistic textures and immersive play, something you need intelligence to play. Nothing remotely arcade-like.
This was mainly aimed at whemyfield. I\'m still unsure about the mini-game idea, though, as I can\'t think of an implementation that I would like to see.
Regarding the monsters / mine guards: IMNSHO, it would be somewhat unrealistic to have any significant amount of monsters in Hydlaa or, in fact, in Yliakum, especially in moderately to densly populated areas. I can see the occasional monster being dug out, but they\'d be minor ones and rare. However, we can also add additional surprises, like
- cave-ins of both ceiling and floor
- water flows
- poisonous gas
- extraordinary finds (like ancient artifacts or valuable minerals), should be extremely rare, though, depending on find
- digging into caves that might contain things, that might or might not have another opening
I think what\'s lacking most is diversity and visual indication. I see that it isn\'t yet possible to actually dig holes and tunnels that exist in the game world, though.
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I think there definiatly needs to be something done about the current minning system. I think somepeople have made some good suggestions. These have basicly been said already, but here are my ideas in detail:
1. We create \"caves\" or such where all minning takes place. These should be long mazed corridors. Then there should be visible spawn points on the walls where players could see the minerals. There should be X amount of spawn points and only X/2 number of minerals. There should also be monsters in the mines but not incredibly hard ones. Mining would only take seconeds to clear a vein but you can only get as many minerals based on your mining xp. Players would have to spend time exploring through the caves untill they found a vein but the rewards from each vein would be high.
2. Another optoin would to create limited mining spots. They would appear somewhere in the world and only have a predetermined amount of minerals. When it\'s gone, it\'s gone and players would have to find another place to mine. Each time the \"mine spots\" would come up they would be in diffrent places throughout the world. This would also help limit the amount of minerals that entered the society which would in turn greatly stabalize the economy.
I also think that the price of gold should not be set but be more of a rate that would change depending on the amount of gold currently in the system.
Just some thoughts...
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My old mining idea (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=5140&boardid=11)
A VERY long read (make sure you have some spare hours before reading it in-depth) with most-likely broken images, and a lot of long responses.
IMO, the ultimate mining idea post, simply because of it\'s size and uniqueness... Even if it isn\'t possible. :P
[and for the love of god, DO NOT CAST ANIMATE UNDEAD (post) ON IT!]
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Originally posted by Saphire
My old mining idea (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=5140&boardid=11)
A VERY long read (make sure you have some spare hours before reading it in-depth) with most-likely broken images, and a lot of long responses.
IMO, the ultimate mining idea post, simply because of it\'s size and uniqueness... Even if it isn\'t possible. :P
[and for the love of god, DO NOT CAST ANIMATE UNDEAD (post) ON IT!]
What we will probably do to limit mining cheats is to have a max stack count for items in the inventory. Then we can set that to (for example) 20 for ore items. That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by elscouta
***agrees with what it has been said about the new no-twice-in-the-row***. It slows the mining process which is good (4k trias per hour is just insane) but it makes the thing even more boring because before you could easily dig at a good rate and chat at the same time/browse forums.
I guess i even prefered MB hunting to the current digging system... :(
yeah, the new system is still bot-able, and it makes it harder for people doing the mining themselves to chat now. But only a bit. I think mining should just go back to something like crystal hunting: you have a series of mining tunnels, and ores spawn there. Simple, fun, not quite as repetitive and you have to do it yourself.
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That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.
lol, sometimes the most obvious solution makes the most sense. Give ores weight, the more weight you carry the slower you dig, and once over your weight limit you will have to either drop ores or return to town. This should automatically limit botting dramatically with [i assume] the least amount of changing. You risk alot by dropping ores to mine longer and besides you will still not be able to carry it all back in one go if you do so........Packmules coming? :P
[This is in reply to the link to anothe thread, since that thread is already 5+ pages long, i\'ll just respond here :P]
3- Nodes that originate on the floor will grow upwards, nodes that originate on the ceiling will grow downwards, and nodes on the walls of impenetrable rock will grow away from the wall. Ceiling nodes will be mined out upwards, leaving a cavity in the roof. Floor nodes will be dug out downwards, leaving a pit in the floor. Wall nodes will be reduced to a thin seam on the impenatrable rock.
Very initriguing idea, and i would love a world that are as dynamic as that. I\'m not sure i\'ve actually seen even single player games with that type of \'growth\'. Half Life 2 was revolutionary with its physics engine and even -that- was actually rather limited. [Imagine walls being rebuilt or acid actualy slowly \'eating\' through walls....]. So i don\'t know whether it\'s hard to do, put something tells me you need almost an entire engine for that. Plus if you can THAT in mines, why stop there? Building your own house with bricks jumps to mind.....building structures/statues and -anything you can think off suddenly should be possible. [and i\'m not talking about buying a \'predefined skeleton\' of a building like you probably get in other MMORPG, but actually unique building blocks]
The whole minerals and different types of metals which are mixed and treated in various ways [almot like an alchemy type of system] is very good. It\'ll certainly give depth to mining, although won\'t change the digging part UNLESS the above system is used OR
the focus is actually completly shifted from the digging but to the \'treating\' process. So ess
entially the digging itself is simply going to the right place and press dig and you dig 50 ores in one shot..done. The ores will not be very valuable, but after doing some mixing and matching and whatever \'tempering\' processes are available the ore can turn into sometihng alot more valuable.
i.e. you do not dig \'ores\', but unrefined \'rocks with gold in it\' , and then you need to refine and extract [almost like those golddiggers with their little pans next to the rivers and sifting the gold out of it] and then you go to some \'facility\' to do whatever else. Each process makes the item more and more valuable, you can of course \'sell-short\' without going all the way [i.e. gold bar, or golden bracelet]
but the profits will be alot less. Essentially being a miner in PS will probably then mean you need to go further and become skilled in say blacksmithing or jewelry making
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The game doesn\'t seem to be able to count above 255 - yesterday i wanted to sell about 340 ore, but then it said \"You sold 255 platinum for 3060 trias\" and the remaining ore disappeared. Now that\'s kinda annoying after being mining for so long...
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What we will probably do to limit mining cheats is to have a max stack count for items in the inventory. Then we can set that to (for example) 20 for ore items. That means that after mining 20 ores you have to get rid of them before you can go on.
i hate these unrealistic mechanics being used to solve problems, a more immersive solution would be to have to go back to town to get your pick repaired every once in awhile, or not being able to carry any more items due too lack of room, or your could have it so you have to /dig around the rock to find a good place to mine and then you can only mine there for a random ammount of time before it depletes and you have to /dig around other areas of the rock for ore. these are just quick ideas off my head of more realistic solutions to the botting problem.
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Originally posted by bbum
i hate these unrealistic mechanics being used to solve problems, a more immersive solution would be to have to go back to town to get your pick repaired every once in awhile, or not being able to carry any more items due too lack of room, or your could have it so you have to /dig around the rock to find a good place to mine and then you can only mine there for a random ammount of time before it depletes and you have to /dig around other areas of the rock for ore. these are just quick ideas off my head of more realistic solutions to the botting problem.
How is this unrealistic? Is it realistic that someone carries 100 gold ores? That\'s a bit heavy isn\'t it? The maximum stack count is a reflection of the limitation that you can\'t carry huge amounts of stuff.
Greetings,
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Well, I\'d love HUGE monster spawns :P
I remember, in Helbreath, while mining, a mass spawning of lightning-shooting cyclopses would appear.
You\'d run like hell (have about 30% chance of surviving ;-) ), get a bunch of other miners together, and try to kill the twenty monsters.
Ah, yes, those were the days :]
I\'d love it, if we had monsters spawns near the mines in Planeshift.
But make them look nicer than just monsters appearing out of nothing!
How about having \'evil Kran\' suddenly \'growing\' out of the walls!
It sure would make mining more interesting!
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ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.
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Originally posted by bbum
ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.
You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.
Greetings,
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I haven\'t read all posts so forgive me if I \'m repeating things anyone else said.
I don\'t see why mining needs to change though. I liked it just the way it was from the start.
The way I see it there are several kinds of people on planeshift. The people that want action and adventure and the people that want to set up a trade and become the best blacksmith or bowyer in town.
Mining is boring, it doesn\'t hold danger or adventure. You think real life mining is fun? .. I can assure you it \'s alot worse than game mining.
My point is though that not all ways to make money should have monsters or danger involved. If you want excitement go kill things for money .. if you want to earn a safe, be it boring living, go collect resources (and later on create items with these resources). That is why I completely disagree that mining should have monsters involved.
The minigame idea is kinda dumb in a game like this, no offence, but I \'d feel like I was playing a kids game with all kinds of minigames etc. There are minigames enough on the net to play if you prefer those I \'d say.
Mining is a safe way of earning money and that is what it should stay.
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Originally posted by Zan
I haven\'t read all posts so forgive me if I \'m repeating things anyone else said.
I don\'t see why mining needs to change though. I liked it just the way it was from the start.
The way I see it there are several kinds of people on planeshift. The people that want action and adventure and the people that want to set up a trade and become the best blacksmith or bowyer in town.
Mining is boring, it doesn\'t hold danger or adventure. You think real life mining is fun? .. I can assure you it \'s alot worse than game mining.
My point is though that not all ways to make money should have monsters or danger involved. If you want excitement go kill things for money .. if you want to earn a safe, be it boring living, go collect resources (and later on create items with these resources). That is why I completely disagree that mining should have monsters involved.
The minigame idea is kinda dumb in a game like this, no offence, but I \'d feel like I was playing a kids game with all kinds of minigames etc. There are minigames enough on the net to play if you prefer those I \'d say.
Mining is a safe way of earning money and that is what it should stay.
I think that would make mining too easy...
I can agree to not having monsters in the mining spots near the cities, but there should definitely be monsters in the places where you can get really good ores.
This way, you\'d have to cooperate to survive, which stimulates interaction between players.
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You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.
I\'m glad its temporary and that system you described sound\'s pretty cool :)
Monster\'s invloved with mining? How about a monster that walk up to a rock needed to be mine\'d for a quest every once in awhile? or having to avoid monsters while walking to a mining spot, or a big cave with ore and knowing theres a giant monster that walks around and you have to avoid it. How about a wolf that walks by the ore rocks some times. You know, so you have to keep an eye out. There shouldnt always be monsters involved with mining, there should be risk vs reward value though. You can go back to the ore rocks you know, or goto the cave with vast ammounts of ore youve heard about if your alittle more daring.
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by bbum
ah jorrit, i read your post wrong, i thought you wanted the max ore anyone can ever have at a time to be 20, this would be unrealistic compared to being able to hold more ore when less is in your inventory, and strenght changing how much you can carry.
You didn\'t read me wrong. In the future we will have a system where the total weight of what you are carrying will have a negative impact on various things (like speed and so on). And there will also be a max weight then. At the moment this it not easy to do yet so as a temporary solution we will adapt a maximum stack count per item. The idea behind that is roughly the same though but it is easier to implement right now.
Greetings,
thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack, so once you get 255 you just start a new stack. imho i thought the 255 thing was because you couldnt be bothered changed the variable holding the number of items in a stack from 1 byte to a larger number....lol :P
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack
No you can\'t. You can\'t start a new stack of the same item type.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
thats a bit silly, a max stack count, because you can just put new items into a new stack
No you can\'t. You can\'t start a new stack of the same item type.
Greetings,
Yes you can. I just did it then... you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack? Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now.... Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.
EDIT****
geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg
screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes you can. I just did it then... you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack? Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now.... Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.
EDIT****
geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg
screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.
Well then that\'s a bug and needs to be fixed.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Arzosah
I think that would make mining too easy...
I can agree to not having monsters in the mining spots near the cities, but there should definitely be monsters in the places where you can get really good ores.
This way, you\'d have to cooperate to survive, which stimulates interaction between players.
You have a point but I still think the mining spots themselves should be safe from monsters. However the roads you need to take to get there don\'t have to be. That way you still need some cooperation with strong characters to reach your mining spot. But you won\'t have to make things boring for the others because they don\'t need to hang around and slay occasional foes.
As for \"the really good ores\" well if you ask me the price of ores is very low., which is fine because else people would earn too much money with mining. So far platinum gives you 12 trias and I don\'t think they plan to put ores that \'ll make a bunch more than that in the game. Platinum sounds like one of the really good ores to me.
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Mining is NOT a safe way to make a living. Toxic fumes, dust, low O2, cave-ins, heat exhustion, etc. The death rate is very high. Especialy in medieval times. In fact, it may be one of the most dangerous jobs in PS. I just thought that the game should reflect this.
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As for the monsters vs. quality ore:
good ores will be found either
1) next to cities that have been established just because of the ore, so the mines would be reasonably safe from monsters, but there\'d be lots of miners so prices will be less, and also the transport routes will be less secure, since these cities usually are in the middle of nowhere with lots of danger around them, or
2) a good way from normal cities, so that the way to and from the mines will be somewhat safe due to the town, but nor absolutely safe, and also the mines are less used and thus there are chances that monsters occasionally enter them. Prices would be higher for ore due to the moderate danger and the smaller number of miners.
I also think that the toxic fumes and other things should be implemented. They would, in fact, be the perfect deterrent for bots. You are mining happily for hours on end, but suddenly you hit a crack containing toxic fumes. Your health will slowly fall, increasing in speed if you don\'t get out.
Also, when digging deep, oxygen may run low, let\'s say due to bad air circulation caused by winds changing or no wind at all. You\'ll get dizzy and tired, and if you don\'t get out, you\'ll die.
Cave-ins for even more excitement: they may
- happen far from you, so you\'ll hear them and maybe the way out might be blocked, forcing you to dig for your life (though in the closed area there shouldn\'t be any more bad effects until the way out is clear again),
- happen near you, covering you in dust, which reduces your sight and health due to the dust in your lungs, so you can die if you don\'t get out, or at least take some damage
- happen above you, possibly killing you.
Cave-ins need to announce themselves by strange sounds, like rumbles, small earthquakes, whatever.
Oh yeah, heat can accumulate if many miners are in the same place, the air gets sticky and health is reduced slowly but constantly, and endurance as well. At some point, you simply can\'T mine anymore, so either you get out to refresh yourself, or stay there staring at the rock that you\'re supposed to be mining.
I think that\'d make mining more exciting, at least it might make me do some mining occasionally. :)
Edit: combine these with a longer duration and proportional output for each /dig (which needs to be interruptible and yoield the appropriate amount of ore on the floor if interrupted), and the system would be very good IMO.
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well i\'ve read most of the posts in this topic and i think that the best way to handle mining is a sort of mini-game where you will have to make you\'re own mine: you could start with a cave or just some flat ground or a little hill,.... and you\'ll need to start digging with equipment you buy from a player or NPC, these may be pickaxes, shuvels (don\'t know if you spell it this way),... and you\'ll need wood to prevent cavins.
for the sort of ores: it depends on the location where you dig, and how deep you dig. also if you start digging deeper the risk of gasses, monsters that live in the ground will rise. but the higher you\'re mining lvl is the better you can notice these things and react on them.
this will make everything less boring, more realistic and hard to bot
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I suppose it\'s a good step to \'force\' players to actively move around now. Although i would still prefer seeing messages like this :
/dig for gold \"
\"You could not find any gold here\"
Move a bit to the left
/dig for gold\"
\"You\'ve found a MINOR vein of gold!!\"
[minor might mean only 3 or 4 ores can be mined before you have to move ]
/mine gold\"
\"You failed to mine any gold\"
/mine gold
\"You successfully mine an ore of gold\"
[amount you can mine in a single mining op can depend on
mining skill]
/mine gold
\"There does not seem to be any gold here\"
[gold depleted]
..and you move on to find another vein by doing a search and then mining.
Now of course this is bottable, assuming movement is bottable. Unless of course you replace the \"/search for gold\" with a visible \"sighting\". I doubt you can bot something you can only see on the screen [instead of text].
This will require gold deposits to \'spawn\' just like mobs [and randomly too]. I\'m sure you can restrict the spawning to a particular rock wall. So you have a situation that everyone will still go to mine at a particular place [i.e. magic shop] but if everyone is mining along the same rock wall the entire wall will \'run empty\' and then respawn after a some time. The Major/minor veins can spawn randomly along the rock wall.
In the end, it\'s similar to the \'can\'t dig here twice\' except for two main differences:
1. You can actually dig twice depending on the \'size\' of the deposit [i.e. 20 ores if it\'s a major vein, deposits also reset if someone only digged halfway and left]
2. Currently the \'no-twice\' system can be \'fooled\' by moving left and digging and then moving back to the right and digging at the original spot [so you just move left and right all the time = easily scriptable]. Spawn/depletion of ore will require a lot more movement than \'left-right\' which is pretty hard to bot i\'d say ESPECIALLY if there\'s other players using up \'dig-slots\' .
So even if you don\'t want to visibly show dig-spots and only use a type \"Search for gold first\" command then you will need a really good bot to move along an entire wall [and probably walk across the room to another wall eventually].
I agree with this idea and the last one. The thing that most people do not think about is that there are different types of gamers. I like to settle down with a game that allows me to go out and mine for hours, to get the stuff needed to make a sword. Or go out and chop lumber then craft it into planks for making things out of. I know that my type of gaming is not for everyone. But I like it that way. If a monster randomly wanders up, then I have to deal with it. Not have to expect monsters to wander up because I am mining. Or cutting lumber. Both acts make noise and would scare off normal animals.
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes you can. I just did it then... you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack? Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now.... Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.
EDIT****
geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg
screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.
Well then that\'s a bug and needs to be fixed.
Greetings,
This is kind of funny, because if the stack is limited to 255, and there are weight limitations on characters that will be implemented, what is the point of forcing people to move to prevent bots after all 255 is less than an hour of play before the bot would be stopped because it\'s stack was full :o).
Furthermore if you had no stack limitation the bot could injure himself or be unable to move due to the weight collected thus forcing him to discard mined material to correct the situation which would make it obsolete sort of (or at least not give him an advantage compared to a real miner who could collect the discarded items :) ).
Regards,
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The stack limit is a temporary solution, used until the weight restrictions are in place, IIRC.
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IF ITS BORING...DONT DO IT! GOOD IDEA? NO?
lol, if we did actually have mines in PS, there would be holes EVERYWERE. No1 could move without falling to there death lol.
IM SO NEWB, I DIDNT KNOW U COULD MINE TILL ABOUT AN HOUR AGO. AND DIDNT KNOW HOW TILL NOW. ROFL
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I like the idea of underground mining with possible hazards.
The potential hazards could be tied to mining, and the chance of them happening (and the harm they may inflict) should be less to an experienced miner than to an inexperienced one.
You could have a \'newbie mine\', basically an old mineshaft that storyline-wise was abandoned because the richer ore had already been mined. Lower quality ore can still be obtained, and it provides a good \'practice ground\' for Miners. Other mines may be more hazardous, with less stable supports and pockets of gas - experienced miners will be able to mine without disturbing the structure and may be able to detect the gas before they reach it.
In addition, mining skill should also represent the ability to scope an area out (determine what ores are present in the area, and give a reasonable idea how structurally sound it is).
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Another idea for mining:
The mining skill should be easier to learn in the beginning. It is easy to learn the basics but it will get harder to advance in skill if you get higher.
That will make it somewhat more realistic too.
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I like a lot of these ideas, especially the idea of monsters in the mining areas - at least the underground ones. After all, shouldn\'t most mining be in the stone labaryinths - lots of monsters there.
Other than that I think that there should be some small amount of experiance gained with successfully mining. After all how does killing rats or other monsters help you get better at mining. You should be able to get better at mining by mining.
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I wouldn\'t expect much mining in a stone labyrinth really, it\'s a man-made structure made of specially cut and prepared stone.
You\'re far more likely to find your ores and what-not elsewhere. You\'re also likely to annoy the people who built or maintain the labyrinth by carving chunks out of their precious walls.
And regarding monsters in the mines - only a few mines should have them (precious and/or purer ores, maybe gems and crystals of various types and alchemical uses), they should be old, abandoned mineshafts that have since been claimed as a home by other creatures. Other mines shouldn\'t have such issues (although, there are other ways to add danger to mining - see my post above for an example).
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Only partially, Aravi. The website says it\'s \"a complex of both natural and artificial caves\". I\'d expect some old abandoned mines to be located there.
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Exactly. Apart from that, the builders (if there actually was any managed approach) of the stone labyrinth (which is vast) might not have cared about the resources and ores that Yliakums current inhabitants, who came way after the stone labyrinth was created and it\'s creators had left it, for whatever reasons. Furthermore, most of the stone labyrinth is just natural cracks and tunnels in the planet\'s (or whatever\'s) crust. Therefore, nobody will care if you add a nice cozy mine to the labyrinth. :)
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Greetings,
both of you are right. That is, you can split your pile of ore or whatever in as many subpiles as you wish because the server add the amount of each pile when it is calculating if you can carry more of the same item. So if the limit is 10 and you have 3 piles of ore with 2, 3 and 4 each one, you could mine one more ore (that it is supposed to go to first pile it finds) and no more, next mined ore will give you a message stating you can\'t carry more ore of the same type.
Just take a look at the server source code and you will see it. Futhermore, I tested it anyway :D
Regards,
Kintups.
Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes you can. I just did it then... you do mean perhaps if you start another stack, when you pick up items / mine them they still go to the original stack? Im definate you can start another stack, because ive been doing it all along now.... Unless thats been changed with an update in the last 24 hours.
EDIT****
geocities.com/ramlambmoo/shot09.jpg
screenshot of me with 3 platinum stacks.... i assume we must be talking about something different.
Well then that\'s a bug and needs to be fixed.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Under the moon
* /dig for gold /dig for iron /dig for gold /dig for iron /dig for gold /dig for iron *
Sounds pretty boring, doesn\'t it. And easily bot-able.
So why can\'t mining be fun? Could it not be turned into some sort of un-bot-able mini-game? Like some sort of Tetris or PPuzzle League (god that game was addictive). Dirt would be useless brown blocks while ore would be different shiny and puuurdy colors. Line up so many gold/iron/copper/etc blocks, they disappear, and you get one unit of that ore. Then you could mine for more than one type of ore at a time. Different areas could yield varying amounts of ore blocks, or veins. If too many \'dirt\' blocks accumulate and reach the top, your \'mine\' collapses and you have to start over. Pick durability could affect the speed at which you can move or switch blocks. Race differences would effect this also (dwarves are little dirt grubbers after all :D ).
This is just one example of how tedious tasks could be made fun. Who wants to spend hours typing */dig whatever*. We are supposed to be role-playing and having fun here, not having boring on-line jobs, aren\'t we? Otherwise, what\'s the point?
Ya, I know, the Devs are up to their ears in work, and can\'t be bothered with this, but that shouldn\'t stop us from discussing the problem.
*puts on his flame-proof suit of crystal scale*
I\'m ready.
when you mine it should NOT be a minie game that WOULD make it evern boringer! I mean when people ,ime in runescape all they wan\'t to do is get there stuff to smith with and get the hell out of there.
The fact that mineing IS boring make the FACT that is should go as fast as poss.