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Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Noctis Lamnia on January 05, 2005, 02:19:55 am

Title: What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?
Post by: Noctis Lamnia on January 05, 2005, 02:19:55 am
Discuss.
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Post by: Efflixi Aduro on January 05, 2005, 02:33:52 am
Well lets see. Noting is unstoppable and nothing is imovable. There we go, the situation is impossable and the discussion is over.
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Post by: Black_rose on January 05, 2005, 02:42:02 am
the unstoppable force simpily phases through the unmovible
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Post by: Noctis Lamnia on January 05, 2005, 02:46:02 am
I\'m not asking if it COULD happen.

I\'m asking WHAT would happen.
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Post by: Black_rose on January 05, 2005, 02:48:04 am
yep, think of it, put ice in your hand then put water in your hand

they ice will not slip through your fingers but the water will, why??? water moves faster on a molecular scale so it is able to be more flexible
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Post by: Black_rose on January 05, 2005, 02:52:13 am
ok, what about this, the unstoppable force would strech a hole in the unmovible and simpily just pas through the hole, the hole would then dissapear
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Post by: Efflixi Aduro on January 05, 2005, 02:56:48 am
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Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia
I\'m not asking if it COULD happen.

I\'m asking WHAT would happen.


Look. Accoring to physics it\'s impossable.  If it\'s impossable there is no way to explain it because there is nothing to explain it.
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Post by: Kixie on January 05, 2005, 02:59:24 am
According to physics there are no unstoppable forces, or especially unmovable ones. An object has to rest on something, it cant just float on its own in nothing and have any resistance. Therefore there are no unmovable objects, and especially no unstoppable ones. This conversation is hereby void of any logic whatsoever.
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Post by: seperot on January 05, 2005, 03:01:07 am
its unmovable but not unbreakable.....  the moving force simply brakes through the center... simple realy
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Post by: Cybio Kingfist on January 05, 2005, 03:05:58 am
Nothing says it has to break through the CENTER I mean pssh, come on, use your imagination.
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Post by: Noctis Lamnia on January 05, 2005, 03:12:35 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kixie
According to physics there are no unstoppable forces, or especially unmovable ones. An object has to rest on something, it cant just float on its own in nothing and have any resistance. Therefore there are no unmovable objects, and especially no unstoppable ones. This conversation is hereby void of any logic whatsoever.


Ah, science, good ol\' science.

Why must we be constrained by your forceful bonds of unopeness?

Why must we be constrained to a single strain of thought according to your \"laws\"?

Why?
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Post by: Kixie on January 05, 2005, 03:14:36 am
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Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia
Ah, science, good ol\' science.

Why must we be constrained by your forceful bonds of unopeness?

Why must we be constrained to a single strain of thought according to your \"laws\"?

Why?

Because when you step off them you become insane. Simple as that. You know the people that step off the pedistle of science do? They tell you that a copper pipe filled with salt and rocks, stirred for 34 minutes and put in a microwave will power the earth for 45 million years. Thats what happens. Seriously, when you stray to far from the laws, you rmind starts messin\' with you.
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Post by: Kithplana on January 05, 2005, 03:20:16 am
If, hypothetically, one force is \"unstoppable\" and the other \"unmovable\", then in the event of a collision both would be tested to see if both qualities are true. If one is weaker than the other in their un* ability, eventually the one with the stronger ability will win out and the weaker one will be overcome (the unstoppable object will stop or the unmovable object will shift). If they are equal, both would stop doing their thing: the unstoppable force would cease to move, and the unmovable object would become movable.
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Post by: Efflixi Aduro on January 05, 2005, 03:26:44 am
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Originally posted by Kixie
According to physics there are no unstoppable forces, or especially unmovable ones. An object has to rest on something, it cant just float on its own in nothing and have any resistance. Therefore there are no unmovable objects, and especially no unstoppable ones. This conversation is hereby void of any logic whatsoever.

Exactly.
So if you wanna try to solve somthing that can\'t exist go ahead. You might just end up like stalin. (nuts)  :D
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Post by: Harkin on January 05, 2005, 03:28:51 am
when they collides a paradox happens and the universe ends.... there take that!!

 :P sorta like a very huge explosively powerful \'big bang\' end to the universe... muahahaha :D
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Post by: Syzerian on January 05, 2005, 04:01:42 am
Such titles can only be given from perception so to you those objects would be considered unmovable/unstoppable to you or someone else but are not really.
There is always something stronger.
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Post by: Noctis Lamnia on January 05, 2005, 04:14:33 am
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Originally posted by Kixie
Because when you step off them you become insane. Simple as that. You know the people that step off the pedistle of science do? They tell you that a copper pipe filled with salt and rocks, stirred for 34 minutes and put in a microwave will power the earth for 45 million years. Thats what happens. Seriously, when you stray to far from the laws, you rmind starts messin\' with you.


...

NEVER say things like that to a person who works with magick.

Please, just don\'t say something like that to me again.

I\'ve seen and done enough things beyond the \"laws\" of science to know they are... bendable... at the least.
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Post by: Hatchnet on January 05, 2005, 04:31:58 am
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Originally posted by Kixie
According to physics there are no unstoppable forces, or especially unmovable ones. An object has to rest on something, it cant just float on its own in nothing and have any resistance. Therefore there are no unmovable objects, and especially no unstoppable ones. This conversation is hereby void of any logic whatsoever.


Which physics are you useing here?

Every thing delt with by astrophysics sits in a void and has resistance. And belive it or not both unmoveable object and unstopable force are described in astro physics, however they are defined as being thus relative to surrounding objects.

Well anyways both unmovable object and unstopable fore are described as: an object with an emense gravitational force. Anotherwords a singularity.


Now can anyone tell what happens when two singularitys collide?
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Post by: Efflixi Aduro on January 05, 2005, 04:35:58 am
Ah likie a black hole. That undestructable.
But 2 black hole by eachother? Im guessing they would just be stuck to eachother and do nothing to eachother.
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Post by: Under the moon on January 05, 2005, 06:22:13 am
Magick?  HA!  You have no power here in the real world.

Ahem, I am going to agree with the \'un\' crowd.  These things don\'t exist.  That\'s why we have Mr. Rogers and the land of Make-beleave.  And PS.
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Post by: sashok on January 05, 2005, 06:37:09 am
you have to ask GOD this question :D

he knows...

edit.

but logically unstoppable force changes direction or bounces off opposite direction, while unmovable force stands there still.. thus both continuing the cycle i guess

this is since you didn\'t say that unstoppable force is aslo destroying anything in path
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Post by: Olig on January 05, 2005, 06:38:03 am
This is stupid. There is no such thing as an unmoveable force because all matter is moving, or vibrating, constantly. The absense of complete movement is at absolute zero, the utter lack of energy, and is impossible to reach. However, unstoppable forces are more realistic, but they faze out after a very long time and can pass through most objects, like radio waves. The best answer I can provide is that the unstoppable object will pass through the \"heavy stationary\" object, or simply bounce off and continue its trajectory in a different direction.
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Post by: Karyuu on January 05, 2005, 07:09:00 am
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Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia ...

NEVER say things like that to a person who works with magick.

Please, just don\'t say something like that to me again.

I\'ve seen and done enough things beyond the \"laws\" of science to know they are... bendable... at the least.


This clearly shows that you know not the definition of \"law\" nor \"science\" :rolleyes: I used to do that whole \"I\'m going to call it \'magick\' because it\'s different\" thing too. It\'s nonsense. What you\'re really bending is your head, not the spoon.
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Post by: sashok on January 05, 2005, 07:24:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by Karyuu
Quote
Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia ...

NEVER say things like that to a person who works with magick.

Please, just don\'t say something like that to me again.

I\'ve seen and done enough things beyond the \"laws\" of science to know they are... bendable... at the least.


This clearly shows that you know not the definition of \"law\" nor \"science\" :rolleyes: I used to do that whole \"I\'m going to call it \'magick\' because it\'s different\" thing too. It\'s nonsense. What you\'re really bending is your head, not the spoon.


I spend about 10 minutes after watching matrix trying to bend the spoon.. however that\'s normal.  If you have also tried but are still trying, that\'s not normal :D
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Post by: Hatchnet on January 05, 2005, 07:39:55 am
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Originally posted by sashok
I spend about 10 minutes after watching matrix trying to bend the spoon.. however that\'s normal.  If you have also tried but are still trying, that\'s not normal :D



Why bend spoons when you can punch thru bricks?


While it is primarily about hitting the brick properly you do have to bend yourself a little bit in the head , but this is due mainly to what we are taught as children.


And haveing strong chi helps :)
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Post by: Kithplana on January 05, 2005, 07:49:19 am
Quote
Originally posted by sashok
but logically unstoppable force changes direction or bounces off opposite direction, while unmovable force stands there still.. thus both continuing the cycle i guess


This might work if it was a concave curved surface that the unstoppable force hit at just the right angle. Any other way and it would have to bounce off at an angle, and unless there\'s something I\'m missing in how something bounces off something else at an angle, it would have to come to a complete stop in order to change direction. (Feel free to correct me in the event I\'m wrong about this point.)

Oh, and to those of you who are complaining about the plausibility of this, we know it\'s well nigh impossible. It\'s just a thought exercise. And the magick discussion can go elsewhere :D
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Post by: Nikolia on January 05, 2005, 10:40:26 am
\"What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?\"

This is too easy, If there *is* an unstopable force then theres no such thing as an unmovable force.
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Post by: Olig on January 05, 2005, 11:37:22 am
Quote
Originally posted by sashok
Quote
Originally posted by Karyuu
Quote
Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia ...

NEVER say things like that to a person who works with magick.

Please, just don\'t say something like that to me again.

I\'ve seen and done enough things beyond the \"laws\" of science to know they are... bendable... at the least.


This clearly shows that you know not the definition of \"law\" nor \"science\" :rolleyes: I used to do that whole \"I\'m going to call it \'magick\' because it\'s different\" thing too. It\'s nonsense. What you\'re really bending is your head, not the spoon.


I spend about 10 minutes after watching matrix trying to bend the spoon.. however that\'s normal.  If you have also tried but are still trying, that\'s not normal :D


 I\'ve done it. Its not magic, its science. OMG

That whole bending spoon crap was a trick an old magician did in order to try and start his own cult, showing that he was some sort of magical savior. But he was later exposed as a fake. You can easily bend the spoon if you rub the weak end between the handle and the spoon itself with your thumb and index finger. If you rub it long enough, the friction will heat the weak metal and can be easily bent with your thumb, but you can be slick enough to make it look like you did it with your mind.

There is no spoon, and it is not scooping out your eyes.
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Post by: davo on January 05, 2005, 01:44:21 pm
well there isnt a \"yes or no\" type thing when it comes to physics.  everything comes down the strength and weight on a scale, not just \"infinate\" weight and \"infinate\" power.  so errrr
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Post by: Nikolia on January 05, 2005, 01:51:08 pm
thats exactly right
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Post by: Kixie on January 05, 2005, 02:17:13 pm
Even a black hole doesn\'t have infinate weight or power. Henceforth = discussion over. Stop posting :P
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Post by: Xordan on January 05, 2005, 04:03:09 pm
It works perfectly with maths. The unstoppable force has a force of infinity. This hits the unmovable object (assuming it\'s unbreakable as well) the object will push back against the unstoppable force with a force on infinity. The unstoppable force then has a velocity of 0. This collision of forces will continue for eternity. :P
Title: It is much easier.
Post by: Emaib on January 05, 2005, 04:18:02 pm
\"What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?\"

the unstoppable force is full reflected.
and is now unstoppable but the direction.

Thats so easy, like playing POOL

Is\'nt it ?
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Post by: Kixie on January 05, 2005, 04:21:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Emaib
\"What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?\"

the unstoppable force is full reflected.
and is now unstoppable but the direction.

Thats so easy, like playing POOL

Is\'nt it ?

No because the unstoppable object even when hitting a sphere would have to slowdown somewhat when hitting the object. If it hit a flat face, it would be even worse, as it would be at 0 for a moment before it bounced in the other direction. Why am I even posting still? This whole topic is so dumb :P
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Post by: zabeal on January 05, 2005, 05:36:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Nikolia
\"What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?\"

This is too easy, If there *is* an unstopable force then theres no such thing as an unmovable force.

That\'s a good point- if you define one thing as being unstopable by anything, the best you could describe anything else as unmoveable by anything but the unstopable force.

Another idea is you could have exatcly one, truely unmoveable object, if somehow no matter how it was forced, the rest of the universe moved instead. It would be prefectly still, but everyhting would move around it. Think about that one  :D
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Post by: Taldor on January 05, 2005, 05:57:14 pm
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Originally posted by Kixie
This conversation is hereby void of any logic whatsoever.

That\'s not correct. According to logic, this is a case of vacuous truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuous_truth). So the answer to the question \"What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?\" is \'Anything\'.

EDIT: Fixed a translation error
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Post by: Merdarion on January 05, 2005, 06:17:20 pm
Well It depends.

If the unstoppable force is:
   a.)in gasform it will just flow around the unmoveable force
   b.)Liquid would be similar
   c.)If it is hard it either bounces off (from a sphere) or like Emaib said the impulse will go over to the unmoveable force and they will change roles.
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Post by: dfryer on January 05, 2005, 08:02:49 pm
This thread is so full of bad science and bad math that it makes me want to cry.  Only not really.

A few people have pointed out the obvious, like that it is vacuous.  It has absolutely nothing to do with the laws of physics, only the meanings of unstoppable and unmoveable (and maybe the definition of force)

First, the question: What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?

Well, in the physical world, moveableness is not a property of forces.  Also, forces don\'t hit each other.  What was meant was: \"What happens when an irresistableforce is exerted on an unmovable object\".

This is logically equivalent to \"What if True were False\" in which case you would be able to prove anything, but for no value.  So far we believe that this is not the case.

You cannot take infinity and subtract infinity and get 0, as infinity is not a quantity that can be manipulated in that fashion.  Infinity can be used to measure the size of a set - for instance, if I take the size of the set of positive integers (an infinite number of them) and subtract out all the odd ones (still an infinite number of them).. what do I get?  Still an infinite set!  Whoo!

Quote

Now can anyone tell what happens when two singularitys collide?


From the outside, they would act like one singularity.  Depending on your frame of reference they might just get asymptotically closer and never touch, not really sure about that.

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Why must we be constrained to a single strain of thought according to your \"laws\"? .


You don\'t have to, it\'s just practical, has observable results, and explains many phenomena in a consistant and predictable way.  For instance, if I have a dollar, and someone else gives me a dollar, then it is reasonable to predict that I have two dollars.  If you phrase something in the language of physics and logic, convention is that you are asking people to apply the theories of physics and the theorems of logic.  A \"law\" is just a theory that seems pretty well verified by observation.

You could apply your own set of beliefs to the question.  What happens when an unmovable force is exerted on an unstoppable velocity?  Cheese!
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Post by: Monketh on January 06, 2005, 07:29:01 pm
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Program \"Existence.exe\" has comitted an unrecoverable illegal action voilation at Address 01F45298  Exception Code 000003.  
This program will terminated.  All saved data will be lost unrecoverably.
[Close]
[Details]


Then the blue screen of Death comes up and explorer crashes.   :P
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Post by: Couatl on January 07, 2005, 06:20:23 am
Its just something called a paradox. Don\'t look at me, I have no idea what would happen.. Math class soaked up or fried every brain cell remaining in my head. :D
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Post by: davo on January 07, 2005, 06:46:40 am
sorry i alreadey ended this post, and it was true :P

*thinks* first clever thing ive ever said here
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Post by: Hatchnet on January 07, 2005, 07:06:18 am
So far I\'m figureing that dfryer is the only other one here who knows what happens when two opposing forces of equal power interact.

The answer is so simple that I find it appaling that you people haven\'t figured it out yet. They cansel each other out.

The best example of this is a hot object and a cold object; bring them together and they will cease to be hot or cold in relation to each other.
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Post by: Zan on January 07, 2005, 01:21:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Noctis Lamnia
What happens when an unstoppable force hits an unmovable force?


Easy ...

BOOOOOM!!! :P

To the scientifically minded people here .. I was writing basically the same thing as dfryer but deleted it now just to say this. He is right about forces not having any property of movement.
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Post by: Foresteer on January 07, 2005, 01:23:19 pm
\"For every action there is an equal and opposite RE-action\" they would both see to exist in the said states they held... but an obgect cannot be unmoveable or unstopable my EVERYTHING.. just becuse you cannot move or stop it doesn\'t mean anything cannnot

Quote
Originally posted by Kixie
Because when you step off them you become insane. Simple as that. You know the people that step off the pedistle of science do? They tell you that a copper pipe filled with salt and rocks, stirred for 34 minutes and put in a microwave will power the earth for 45 million years. Thats what happens. Seriously, when you stray to far from the laws, you rmind starts messin\' with you.


well a saline filled water tube on a leyline would collect a descent amount of electro-magnetic force.. stirring and microwaving wouldn\'t do jack though... a balancing magneticly charged wheel can output 300% plus energy no matter where it is so.. we don\'t need a saline orgone generator :D

And i stepped off the \"pedistle\" of \"science\" long ago... insinuating something there kixie :P?
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Post by: Black_rose on January 07, 2005, 10:46:15 pm
ok, we can not know because we do not know....


the shape, size, speed, durability, and you may mean if someone who is really strong meets someone who is really fat, you left alot of important things out
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Post by: Watcher on January 08, 2005, 12:53:48 am
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Even a black hole doesn\'t have infinate weight or power.


To quote many children in playgrounds all over the world
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Prove it


There is no object that can escape the pull of a black hole.
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Post by: Arzosah on January 08, 2005, 09:08:22 am
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/blackhole_weighed_030324.html
(Scientist weighing the weight of a black hole... It\'s a lot, but not infinitely much)

Now, your argument is incorrect ;-)
You state nothing can escape the pull of a black hole:
actually, it\'s just light that\'s not fast enough to escape the pull of a black hole (well, plus anything slower than light).
So, theoretically, it\'s possible to escape the pull of a black hole by going faster than light (now, let\'s not start a discussion about the possibility of going faster than light ;-) But just in case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon)
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Post by: verideon on January 08, 2005, 09:29:39 am
If it was possible, i\'m not saying it isn\'t, then there would probally be a massive explosion, probally worse than an Atomic Bomb. It would destroy KM\'s and KM\'s of land and buildings. But it also depends on the size of the two objects!!

this is refering to the two objects arguement not the black hole one ok.
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Post by: leji on January 08, 2005, 04:08:35 pm
Did you guys forgot school ?
sum of all forces = weight*acceleration

1) black hole thing : considering that the black hole is just really heavy, it has a great attractive force that is stong enough to catch light. now if you take something heavier than light and have it move at light speed, it will not be caught (providing it\'s heavy enough of course).

2) as i cant really see what unmovable could mean i figured out it would be some kind of infinite inertia (not sure it\'s the correct word in english though), so let\'s say an inifinite weight. according to my dear formula and to dfryer\'s note about infinity, you would obtain something infinite, either the unmovable object would move or the force would be \"stoped\", just because infinity - infinity = infinity...
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Post by: Black_rose on January 09, 2005, 01:30:58 am
we could also think of it as just plain space, space is nothing theirfor it has no shape, acceleration or any of that thing then their would be some sort of object that could be anything, if it is the size of jupiter and made out of some sort of iron type thing, it would be unstoppible since the speed would be constantly increasing, it would just pass through