PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Black_rose on January 07, 2005, 11:55:41 pm
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yes i know that we all hate this idea and i know it is touchy, but before you spam listen to this,
when you think of the guns idea you think of people talking about this stuff
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3659&boardid=11&sid=b5d91597a4e16ed18c92ac15a02d389c&page=3 (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3659&boardid=11&sid=b5d91597a4e16ed18c92ac15a02d389c&page=3)
but i want to talk about this http://www.albion-small-arms.freeserve.co.uk/14th15thcent.htm (http://www.albion-small-arms.freeserve.co.uk/14th15thcent.htm)
true fifteenth century guns, the way i see it is they would be effective anti armor weapons for armor that a bow can\'t really puncture, but they would take a huge amount of skill to actually hit with (range skill) and reload would start around a 3-10 second reload (when being charged plus how fast you click powder adding) or a 2 turn reload and would go up with a reloading skill, you could get a knife attatchment (bayonet) and sutch, and these guns would be powerful but would require manual powder and reload (put in the right order, if yyou don\'t you get hurt). these guns were around during fifteenth century and mid fourteenth century, so they would fit, they would also require blasting caps and other materials to fire, if they fire. and when you fight with them it would go with your staff fighting or spear fighting skill (once they implement it) get it??? it\'s not to far fetched and not rigged at all. but if this gets out of hand with flameing i would request that it be turned to a \"warning about disliked topics) thread ;)
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Guns could be a way of fast travel. Remember Seiken Densetsu 2 + 3. But then we would need some large pillows on which you could land softly.
Sometimes I am insane and sometimes i am more insane.
I could really good imagine guns ingame.
Well If I think of guns in Fantasy settings i ever have to think of \"The fifth stone\"
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i have no clue what you are talking about, personally i am against fast transport. but i was also thinking of mixing guns and magic for spells (out of bullets???? not in good effect??
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Originally posted by Black_rose
but before you spam
A great way of getting people to read your stuff is to accuse everyone who actually bothers to read it of spamming. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Black_rose
when you think of the guns idea you think of people talking about this stuff
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3659&boardid=11&sid=b5d91597a4e16ed18c92ac15a02d389c&page=3 (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3659&boardid=11&sid=b5d91597a4e16ed18c92ac15a02d389c&page=3)
Anyway, I have said everything that I have to say on this topic in the very thread you linked to.
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Guns, guns, guns....nope. i think the devs are gonna stick to magic and swordplay (at least i hope so)
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Did I read you right? Modern guns have a hard time penetrating plate armour and you think a medieval one wouldn\'t? Did you the know that the captain of the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides) was wearing a full suit of plate during that famous battle? And that he was struck by no less than nine bullets during the battle? They were at boarding range for crying out loud you don\'t get any closer than that during a sea battle; it could not have been more than 80 ft from the deck rail of one ship the opposit rail of the other and not one of those bullets penetrated the armour.
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Time for this pic again!!
(http://www.geocities.com/simonfilms/psflintlock.jpg)
But no guns guys, i was newbie and wanted guns to once, but i got over it. Flintlocks would be good for a game, but it?s not Planeshift, so get over it.
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Well Black rose, In the Seiken Densetsu games you were shot around by guns for fast travel, XD
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Please let\'s not go Might & Magic style :P Pfaa Blasters, I better stick to my trusty sword or magic...both preferably :P
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Planeshift and guns dont really macth, i think... But why not? But first u have to think about the controle... i mean
shall the gun aim be the same as abilities and so on.
I think guns will appear later in this game, cause for the first its a fantasy rpg, and second; the only thing u wanna come away from when u play rpgs is the chemical war....
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Guns hmmm ... not my thing although with Alchemy black powder could probably be made fairly easily (coal, salpeter and sulphur) which would make for Canons, Grenades and perhaps some muskets but you\'d need to convince smiths that they want to forge that kind of objects which you could since dwarves would see the mining interest of powder.
Although if I had my way I\'d definitely develop Catapults :)
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Did I read you right? Modern guns have a hard time penetrating plate armour and you think a medieval one wouldn\'t? Did you the know that the captain of the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides) was wearing a full suit of plate during that famous battle? And that he was struck by no less than nine bullets during the battle? They were at boarding range for crying out loud you don\'t get any closer than that during a sea battle; it could not have been more than 80 ft from the deck rail of one ship the opposit rail of the other and not one of those bullets penetrated the armour.
well only the armour of that time, plate armour was cancelled due to it\'s inabillity to withstand guns. the reason why bows dissapeard was guns having the ability to take out knights when a bow could not.
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Originally posted by Black_rose
Did I read you right? Modern guns have a hard time penetrating plate armour and you think a medieval one wouldn\'t? Did you the know that the captain of the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides) was wearing a full suit of plate during that famous battle? And that he was struck by no less than nine bullets during the battle? They were at boarding range for crying out loud you don\'t get any closer than that during a sea battle; it could not have been more than 80 ft from the deck rail of one ship the opposit rail of the other and not one of those bullets penetrated the armour.
well only the armour of that time, plate armour was cancelled due to it\'s inabillity to withstand guns. the reason why bows dissapeard was guns having the ability to take out knights when a bow could not.
You have no idea what your talking about.
There was an arrow head that was the equivilent of a modern armour piercing bullet that when used with a long bow could take out a knight on horseback at well over a hundred yards.
Early firearms were just like eary crossbows inacurate and you could not hit squat at a hundred yards.
During the 18th century they were still makeing armour in the same way they had been doing for the three previous centurys.
Early firearms had little penetration power due to the round amunition they would not penetrate chain much less plate.
The reason why guns replaced bows? Well which was cheaper a trained archer or a man with a gun.
Why did armour fall out of use? Seriously would you pay for the armour to protect a soldier when you can just conscript another one and hand him a gun?
Back to econamy: Which is cheaper to transport the amunition for a riffle or the amunition for a bow?
Seige enginers were use wearing plate armour for protection from small arms fire as late as the 18hundreds .
there that should be enough for now.
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You DIFFINATELY know what your talkiing about! :)) I dont really like the guns idea. Takes away from the game
I think we need tanks...
JK
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Who needs tanks when you can have armoured worms :)
That said I believe the guns could be introduced if they kept all the defaults of early guns (does not fire under water or when raining, tends to explode whenever the crafting of the barrel is badly made, long time to recharge, dependant on having bullets and powder in your pack, heavy recoil, almost no penetration power, inaccurate at medium to short range, ...)
Let\'s face it portable guns took a definite time to make and even more of a time before they could be considered a weapon of sort on the battle grounds, what made it so that powder persisted was artillery in the beginnings of it\'s use.
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
Originally posted by Black_rose
Did I read you right? Modern guns have a hard time penetrating plate armour and you think a medieval one wouldn\'t? Did you the know that the captain of the U.S.S. Constitution (Old Ironsides) was wearing a full suit of plate during that famous battle? And that he was struck by no less than nine bullets during the battle? They were at boarding range for crying out loud you don\'t get any closer than that during a sea battle; it could not have been more than 80 ft from the deck rail of one ship the opposit rail of the other and not one of those bullets penetrated the armour.
well only the armour of that time, plate armour was cancelled due to it\'s inabillity to withstand guns. the reason why bows dissapeard was guns having the ability to take out knights when a bow could not.
You have no idea what your talking about.
There was an arrow head that was the equivilent of a modern armour piercing bullet that when used with a long bow could take out a knight on horseback at well over a hundred yards.
Early firearms were just like eary crossbows inacurate and you could not hit squat at a hundred yards.
During the 18th century they were still makeing armour in the same way they had been doing for the three previous centurys.
Early firearms had little penetration power due to the round amunition they would not penetrate chain much less plate.
The reason why guns replaced bows? Well which was cheaper a trained archer or a man with a gun.
Why did armour fall out of use? Seriously would you pay for the armour to protect a soldier when you can just conscript another one and hand him a gun?
Back to econamy: Which is cheaper to transport the amunition for a riffle or the amunition for a bow?
Seige enginers were use wearing plate armour for protection from small arms fire as late as the 18hundreds .
there that should be enough for now.
I want to add to this with referring to the battle of Coutrai (beaten knights with plain Infantry), the battle of Cr?cy (beaten knights with longbows) and another battle I forgot the name of (beaten knights with Swiss pikemen)
And the cavalry remained valuable against the guns untill early in the 20th century.
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well that is what i got from the documentry,
damn my misinterpratations, well it could still take out most horses easily, or flying ptresaurs or whatever........
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I still want black powder however because no Black powder no fireworks and Laanx know mages like me love pyrotechnics :)
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The generalizations made here about firearms vs bows penetrating armor are pretty amusing.
Someone said that guns can\'t even penetrate armor now .. though there are handguns capable of penetrating the entire engineblock of a truck. That isn\'t even talking about sniper rifles where some can penetrate armored vehicles and even tanks.
Thing is back in that time firearms were in their baby years, where while bows already had a whole history of perfection behind it.
The bullet of a gun being round did have major drawbacks on penetration capabilities of firearms. Nonetheless the impact of being hit by a bullet was alot stronger than that of an arrow. Even without penetration a decent flintliock\'s ball would have left a serious dent and likely knocked the target off its feet with a massive bruise and possibly some broken ribs. Another advantage was that with guns you could aim straight at a target over a much longer distance, where with bows you need to shoot your arrow at an angle to cover a decent length. This makes guns alot easier to use.
If guns come into the game they should be very early prototypes with very limited strength. Slow in use, high chance of failure and even a risk to blow up in your face.
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Just like medieval guns.
1 shot, 1 reload.
Pro: Moderate accuracy, low skill requirement, long ranged. Decent damage.
Con: high chance of equipment failure, slow reloading time. Weak against armor.
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let me add some black powder to the fire...
Originally posted by Darakus
Guns hmmm ... not my thing although with Alchemy black powder could probably be made fairly easily (coal, salpeter and sulphur) which would make for Canons, Grenades and perhaps some muskets but you\'d need to convince smiths that they want to forge that kind of objects which you could since dwarves would see the mining interest of powder.
Although if I had my way I\'d definitely develop Catapults :)
how are you gonna make black powder out of platinum, gold and iron ores? :)))
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Originally posted by Black_rose
true fifteenth century guns, the way i see it is they would be effective anti armor weapons for armor that a bow can\'t really puncture,
my understanding is medieval crossbows (the larger, wind-up kind) could get through any body armour.
then again perhaps we don\'t want PS all that realistic, do we?
realistic weapons? realistic armour? realistic blood? realistic deaths?
like do we want death that lead to permanent termination of the game?
in short this conversation is damn pointless, and I\'m ashamed of contributing to it!
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Originally posted by dimaq
let me add some black powder to the fire...
Originally posted by Darakus
Guns hmmm ... not my thing although with Alchemy black powder could probably be made fairly easily (coal, salpeter and sulphur) which would make for Canons, Grenades and perhaps some muskets but you\'d need to convince smiths that they want to forge that kind of objects which you could since dwarves would see the mining interest of powder.
Although if I had my way I\'d definitely develop Catapults :)
how are you gonna make black powder out of platinum, gold and iron ores? :)))
There is already coal in the game so we only need sulfur and brimstone (sorry for the salpeter it was a bad translation I forgot to check)
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see, it is all doable and it fits in.....
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But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not :P
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Originally posted by Karyuu
But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not :P
Actually I slightly dissagree. There are cannons in fantasy, and these guns described as hand cannons really. I think that while it\'s not for PS, it\'s home in a fantasy setting.
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THERES ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO WANTS A GUN...GOOD GOD....LETS JUST STICK TO SWORDS AND BOWS
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What would gobbles be without their mad inventors and a powder keg or two :) Of course they could also have shamans :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not :P
Alchemists are often connected with making gun powder...
Anyway, yeah, guns were made to improve the weaponry. But who would try to improve such uncertain category of weapons when you can bring much more destruction by summoning a fireball?
Oh yea, some people forgot how much easier it is to come across magic in PS than irl, haven\'t they? 8o :rolleyes:
- Swords
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i dont like the whole guns idea. yeah sure, maybe they had em at that time, but i think the devs would place firearms in the wrong perspective and make them a little too strong. the only rpg that made good with guns was vampire: the masquerade. but if i were developing the game, id stick with steel and magic >=)
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i don\'t want to see guns in PS, too.
in future we will have bows and crossbows.... so theres no need for guns anymore.
But i like the idea with that tank ;)
so long
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Originally posted by dimaq
...then again perhaps we don\'t want PS all that realistic, do we?
realistic weapons? realistic armour? realistic blood? realistic deaths?
like do we want death that lead to permanent termination of the game?
in short this conversation is damn pointless, and I\'m ashamed of contributing to it!
I concur. I also agree with Darakus... Who needs tanks when you can have an armored wurm... One thing to be said for guns though, it would make it hard to kill something. Really old guns had a disturbing tendency to blow up in people\'s faces. Plus, guns would make it really boring. Who would use a sword when you could be shot away while charging someone. I have a sudden vision of Elves and Wizards in flowing silver robes with glyphs embroidered into them raining arrows and spells from great flying beasts. Yeah good luck with your slow reloading gun as opposed to the archer who just reaches into his arrow satchel (my head hurts, be nice) and fires an arrow without thought and the wizard who just raises his hands. They have about the same reaction speed and their abilities the same effect. To hit the gunner right between the eyes whilst he reloads...
Ok I\'m done... :)
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by Karyuu
But guns aren\'t fantasy. No matter how primitive, guns are associated more with sci-fi. Planeshift is not :P
Actually I slightly disagree. There are cannons in fantasy, and these guns described as hand cannons really. I think that while it\'s not for PS, it\'s home in a fantasy setting.
Exactly, don\'t you all remember Final \"Fantasy\" 7 & 8 (maybe more? I\'ve only played to 8 so far) like I think Final Fantasy 8 was awesome with the \"GunBlade\", I think that Square did great ff8 blending magic in a series that started from the dark ages & evolved into \"modern magics times\".
Actually I am sort of hoping that over the years Planeshift will evolve somewhat like final fantasy did, were 10 or 20 rl years from now some Xacha will discover Azure (solar) power & we can all have lights @ night instead of candles. this would be an extremely gradual evolution of technology like it says in the intro flash http://planeshift.it/ \"A huge world to explore which evolves by itself\" so maybe some time in the distant future PS will have high-techno-robots mine ore who knows, I think guns wouldn\'t be worth it right now, they will just have to wait till then. ;)
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humjmm i am not agree with gun idea;
Those types of technologies took hundreads - to not say thousands - of years to be developped. Even if the world evolve by himself, as it said in the PS intro, that is not a good reason for PS to have laser gun and nuclear bombs :D
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Well not right away anyway, maybe in like 100 rl years from now when PS is a virtual-reality-online-world it they will just start discovering computers. I\'m saying that ideas such as this will probably be evolved in time & have there own styles & manifestations. as long as PS keeps going we will get to a point were we have maxed out all dark-ages themes & the world with advance theoretically. it\'s just sort of strange that a world would not evolve technology over many many years, it really depends on how many Yliakum years are in one of our years.
There really shouldn\'t be the same npc selling & buying the same stuff year after year after year every day just standing there saying exactly the same thing to everyone that says \"hi\" the world should eventually change, places that were once lively cities should become metropolises, or die off from a lack of resources. I doubt that there is always going to be the same buildings looking the same way year after year, new ways of living happen old ways become hobby or die out completely...
Back in the dark ages it was probably not uncommon that someone would have actually met a real blacksmith but now-a-days most ppl could not say they met a blacksmith or a metal smith, it is very uncommon. I have met one, it was @ a old fort kept up as a sort of working museum, showing how life was back then...
I can just see it now, you travel from a booming metropolis into the country & visit the \"Blacksmith Museum\" & there is the same old npc saying \"I\'ll make you a sword for 100 iron ore\" when you say \"hi\" j/k