PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marmoter on January 16, 2005, 05:27:32 pm
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Why ....why did you killed mining :( why did you guys placed a limit at carring ores ? :( its no longer profitable i rather go to rats ...this will be faster way to get some trias than running every 10 ores to city or even typing /spawn to get there .... we have to get back to mining zone again :(
At least place some NPC near mining zones that will be buying ores from us.
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Yea either place a miner NPC who will accept Ores or make the limit to 50 ores
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Nah, if you use your head and have a few good friends then you can still make lots of money from mining :)
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It\'s impossible to move ore to different slot now?
- Swords
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It\'s impossible to move ore to different slot now?
Yes, and it\'s limited to 10 ores per inventory. Pretty nice feature if you ask me, then people wont sit at the mine for hours upon hours, hogging 1000000000 platinums and then make a fortune. If you want money, start running. :)
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Oh well... I guess in future they could make the ore very heavy, having similar result...
- Swords
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What really bites is the lack of crafting, people can\'t do anything besides killing stuff and mining.
Consider: How much money did miners make in the dark ages through to the 1900\'s?
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Eh I think 10 is a little extreme. Maybe widen it to 50? I mean I\'m not a miner, but that seems like a huge limitation. For a game who\'s goal is to be totally open and let the player decide how flexible their character will be, I don\'t see why a player with more strength can\'t hold more ore. I mean that would be like someone telling a fighter he can only kill 10 monsters a day, or a mage he can only cast his spell 10 times a day when he has plenty of MP left.
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10 bunch of pig rocks in your pockets sounds like a nice limit IMO.
And Kixie, it wouldn\'t be like that at all. It would be like kill 10 things, rest or get a beer, then kill again
There is crafting implented, but no crafting stuff in the DB yet, since it will most likely have bugs, but the time to test that crawls closer :)
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Originally posted by Kixie
Eh I think 10 is a little extreme. Maybe widen it to 50? I mean I\'m not a miner, but that seems like a huge limitation. For a game who\'s goal is to be totally open and let the player decide how flexible their character will be, I don\'t see why a player with more strength can\'t hold more ore. I mean that would be like someone telling a fighter he can only kill 10 monsters a day, or a mage he can only cast his spell 10 times a day when he has plenty of MP left.
So you\'re saying miners will only be able to mine 10 ores per day. That sounds fine, but don\'t you think miners will complain about that too?
How about we say that people can only use /say 10 times a day. That would make it all much more quiet and nice, and hopefully people would think about what they say instead of just going on and on and on... But seriously Kixie, maybe you should understand what actually was changed about mining. It has nothing to do with \"per day\" limitations. It\'s simply a matter of miners not being able to carry more than 10 ores. It\'s resonable, realistic and it makes people whine, bitch and complain. That\'s what nerfs are all about. :)
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yeah, but if they are limited to carry them, the ores should have a higher price isnt??
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Hasn\'t anyone here heard of teamwork?? This is a really easy thing to get around...
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Originally posted by Kixie
Eh I think 10 is a little extreme. Maybe widen it to 50? I mean I\'m not a miner, but that seems like a huge limitation. For a game who\'s goal is to be totally open and let the player decide how flexible their character will be, I don\'t see why a player with more strength can\'t hold more ore. I mean that would be like someone telling a fighter he can only kill 10 monsters a day, or a mage he can only cast his spell 10 times a day when he has plenty of MP left.
So you\'re saying miners will only be able to mine 10 ores per day. That sounds fine, but don\'t you think miners will complain about that too?
How about we say that people can only use /say 10 times a day. That would make it all much more quiet and nice, and hopefully people would think about what they say instead of just going on and on and on... But seriously Kixie, maybe you should understand what actually was changed about mining. It has nothing to do with \"per day\" limitations. It\'s simply a matter of miners not being able to carry more than 10 ores. It\'s resonable, realistic and it makes people whine, bitch and complain. That\'s what nerfs are all about. :)
So...does that mean you can only carry 4 tefusang teeth? :D Those things look bloody huge, and must way a ton...I mean, who cares if your guy can normally lift 300 pounds, 80 pounds of ore is WAY too much!
I think this should be modified a bit - maybe to something like (Strength/2), to be fair - That or give carry weight a max, like (Strength*4).
Now I\'m going off to collect 300 rat pelts. :P
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Originally posted by Kramy
Now I\'m going off to collect 300 rat pelts. :P
You\'ll be able to get 50. No more :-)
Rat eyes are limited at 50 at least. Not sure if hides have same limit.
Greetings,
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Xordan: If two people would mine on their own, they would get at least as much as in team work :P
- Swords
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Are you going to make limit to all itmes? Like Healing potions, Rat hies, ...............tefusang teeth, swords............. and halmets.
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Originally posted by Marmoter
Are you going to make limit to all itmes? Like Healing potions, Rat hies, ...............tefusang teeth, swords............. and halmets.
All items are now limited. The actual limit is different per item. Ores are limited to 10, rat eye is limited to 50, weapons and shields are limited to 1.
Greetings,
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How about u make it so the amount of ore a person can carry depends on their strength and endurance cause that seems more realistic with the stronger a person the more theyll be able to carry?
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Yea coz this what is now is VERY unreallistic.
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but u should make the ammount u can carry a lil bigger its not fair to go back and forth all day.i mean 50 is a lil big but u can at least make it like 20-30.
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Originally posted by RougeKran
How about u make it so the amount of ore a person can carry depends on their strength and endurance cause that seems more realistic with the stronger a person the more theyll be able to carry?
That\'s more work to do. This stack limit is the short-term solution that we can implement now.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by Marmoter
Are you going to make limit to all itmes? Like Healing potions, Rat hies, ...............tefusang teeth, swords............. and halmets.
All items are now limited. The actual limit is different per item. Ores are limited to 10, rat eye is limited to 50, weapons and shields are limited to 1.
Greetings,
untrue.
i can stack 2 weapons on top of each other.
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Originally posted by sesmi
Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by Marmoter
Are you going to make limit to all itmes? Like Healing potions, Rat hies, ...............tefusang teeth, swords............. and halmets.
All items are now limited. The actual limit is different per item. Ores are limited to 10, rat eye is limited to 50, weapons and shields are limited to 1.
Greetings,
untrue.
i can stack 2 weapons on top of each other.
Ah yes. It appears to be set to 10 too.
Greetings,
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At least make Gold Ore worth more then rat hide. I mean really? Rat Hide ????
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No actually it is more realistic now, but as people are saying making it depend on endurance/strength would make sense. That way people need to make their character stronger if they want to hold more ore, doesn\'t that sound more realistic than everyone can hold 10? Players would be more encouraged to do things to make strength and endurance higher and make their character more rounded out. I personally love the limit, although I hope you can\'t hold like 50 rat hides because that would be totally unbalanced.
I guess ill have to log on and check it out.
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Draklar: What if one person mines and the other runs back and for selling?? ;) Then you don\'t have to stop mining, and you don\'t have to worry about having a max amount of ore. Yes you have to split the profit, but that isn\'t so bad.
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So u should disable the give option as well, otherwise people will do just what Xordan said... (That was ironic)
Well as u can see this limit seems to be quite senseless, the clever guys will find ways to mine and the single players will have some disadventage, thats all.
But anther thing:
Originally posted by jorrit
All items are now limited. The actual limit is different per item. Ores are limited to 10, rat eye is limited to 50, weapons and shields are limited to 1.
Greetings,
Does that mean im going to lose my 2nd axe, cause i can only carry 1 weapon? I already lost more than 100 plat ores due to this change...
Well it doesnt really matter cause u will wipe the chars soon, but why cant i carry 2 weapons?
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Why disable the give option for?? Giving to another player is realistic.. carrying 100 tonnes of rock isn\'t.
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Maybe the devs could allow a cart as a tool which you can buy and hold atleast 50 ores in it and then you bring that with you to the NPC to be sold. But like all carrying equipment, the cart can only be used to carry 50 ores 3 times before breaking and needing repair...
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but whouldnt it just more money trying to repair the cart?
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xordan is rite.even if the limits not fair
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what i think most people are starting to forget is that this game is trying to cater to the role player not the uberchar. so i beleive the dev\'s have done this to limit how fast a person can lvl up there char and it will also make people think about what they want to lvl up. after all if you have very little fund\'s your not just going to lvl up all your stat\'s you are going to create your char to your need\'s not make a char that can do everything :D
the developer\'s don\'t want everyone to do everything they want people to choose job\'s. i\'m sure at the current lvl of money making you can have your char grow into a couple of different job\'s . for example i plan on being a fighter or knight that does smithing on the side and that\'s how i will hopefully make my money in the future.
after all how are we going to make a decent commuinity when everyone does everything then no one would buy anything from anyone else and that would be the end of the merchant class now wouldn\'t it :D
and that\'s my two cent\'s
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Hmmm,
I\'m thinking of a kind of \'maximum capacity\' for every character. This means that every thing needs his own \'specifig weight\'. This sounds more realistic to me than limiting the amount of items. Of course, it means more work too, I just want to say this for future development :D.
greets
phnord
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Or just make slots for every item ...... like in diablo ...... no ?... ok stupid idea.... forget about it :) its even more unrealistic.
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last time I went to the dungeon, I had \'z\' bound to /dig platinum - so I\'d hit \'z\', hit \'run lock\', when I stop because I got the ore, hit z again and runlock again.
By the time I got to the bottom of the dungeon, I had more than 80 bits of ore. now I was lame and I managed to die down there, but if I were to walk all the way up (even without getting lost) I would\'ve had some 150 bits.
In light of this a limit of, say, 10 is totally lame - it basically makes exploring not worthwhile :(
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Originally posted by dimaq
last time I went to the dungeon, I had \'z\' bound to /dig platinum - so I\'d hit \'z\', hit \'run lock\', when I stop because I got the ore, hit z again and runlock again.
By the time I got to the bottom of the dungeon, I had more than 80 bits of ore. now I was lame and I managed to die down there, but if I were to walk all the way up (even without getting lost) I would\'ve had some 150 bits.
In light of this a limit of, say, 10 is totally lame - it basically makes exploring not worthwhile :(
The point of exploring is exploring. Not mining. Why would exploring become useless if you can\'t mine anymore? There are other reasons to explore (and even more reasons in the future when more is implemented in CB).
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Xordan
Draklar: What if one person mines and the other runs back and for selling?? ;) Then you don\'t have to stop mining, and you don\'t have to worry about having a max amount of ore. Yes you have to split the profit, but that isn\'t so bad.
I seriously question Xordan\'s logic. To make this simpler, lets say ore is worth 10 trias.
Assuming 2 people mine for 100 seconds and get 10 ore, then take 100 seconds to run to a shop keeper, sell it, and get back, they each get 100t every 200s
Assuming 1 person mines for 100 seconds and gets 10 ore and another person takes 100s to run back and forth selling the ore, they make 100t every 100s, but have to split it, making it 50t every 100s
COMPARE:
100tria every 200secs
50tria every 100 secs
1/2 > 2/4 = FALSE
Hmm...don\'t really understand your logic, doesn\'t make any sense to me. :D About the only reason I can think of mining together(since two people and trading ore is less efficient than doing it alone) is chatting, which is kinda a mute point since if you\'re running somewhere(which one person would be) you can\'t really do much chatting.
This leads me to the conclusion that this kind of logic is utterly moronic. (no offense)
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I kinda like how one of the devs explains that the current system is temporary, and will be replaced by a system based on carry weight.
And everyone keeps complaining that the system should be based on carry weight :P.
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Originally posted by jorrit
All items are now limited. The actual limit is different per item. Ores are limited to 10, rat eye is limited to 50, weapons and shields are limited to 1.
Greetings,
Oh, !?@#&!* GREAT! I just LOVE this new system!
First, I have to say that by setting limits, you\'ve very nicely just dumped the stuff I was already carrying. Does it occur to anyone that all that stuff represents time devoted by the player!? And, I don\'t mean fun, recreative time, but monotonous I-wish-I-were-doing-anything-else time? Is this the kind of respect and cooperation we can expect from the devs? I mean, I know we really should be worshiping in there awesome glory and be endlessly grateful to be given any scraps from their plates at all, but it works both ways.
I have no issue with a planned wipe of data, particularly when it\'s announced well before-hand, to correct for uber-bugs. It is, after all, a beta, and we players are merely game-testing. But it\'s another thing entirely to keep taking away every tiny accomplishments the players manage to achieve. And, I can find many, many posts where players complain about the lack of game balance only to be told that the devs have better things to do. After all, stability first, game-play second, right? No, no, can\'t be bothered to add any quests with better rewards than 10 trias; can\'t supply characters with ways to raise funds through anything other than mining or killing; let\'s charge 2k for even the smallest of spells, and be sure that characters never start out with anything.
So, now the devs are focused on reigning in those pesky uber-characters. It is so important that we limit the number of rat hides that someone can sell because this is beta, and we really don\'t want anyone testing the limits to see how the system works. We can\'t have all those characters out there mining lots of ore to try and train their stats - really, what\'s use? This game is all about roleplaying and realism - it shouldn\'t be entertaining. We need to make the mining system just as dull and dangerous, and financially unrewarding as if this were *real* life. Even though every person playing wants to roleplay an adventurer (someone who explorers, performs quests, etc), let\'s make sure that even a basic sword is well out of their reach - after all, they might have a little fun with one.
Come on people! The \"this is a beta\" statement works both ways. It\'s used as a caution that not everything is fully implemented, but does it mean that the developers are working on the limits first? So what if you have hordes of characters running around with extraordinarily high stats and loads of equipment and power? What are they going to do with it!? The game isn\'t developed enough to over-balance! There are only a handful of quests, and even fewer monsters to defeat. So the uber-gamers levelup their characters to soaring heights; they\'ll quickly grow bored when they discover there\'s nothing left to do with them. But you\'re all so scared of that that you\'re going to limit us casual players right in to the ground! Makes me want to stick to my real life - I make more money, it takes less time, I have more advancement opportunities, I can carry more items, and (on a good day) wider variety of monsters to kill!
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Originally posted by end-user
Oh, !?@#&!* GREAT! I just LOVE this new system!
First, I have to say that by setting limits, you\'ve very nicely just dumped the stuff I was already carrying. Does it occur to anyone that all that stuff represents time devoted by the player!?
Don\'t forget that everything will be wiped soon. So you will loose everything anyway. We have to wipe because of big bugs so many things are wrong.
And, I don\'t mean fun, recreative time, but monotonous I-wish-I-were-doing-anything-else time? Is this the kind of respect and cooperation we can expect from the devs? I mean, I know we really should be worshiping in there awesome glory and be endlessly grateful to be given any scraps from their plates at all, but it works both ways.
I have no issue with a planned wipe of data, particularly when it\'s announced well before-hand, to correct for uber-bugs. It is, after all, a beta, and we players are merely game-testing. But it\'s another thing entirely to keep taking away every tiny accomplishments the players manage to achieve.
There is going to be a wipe. So how does it matter that you loose items you gained now? At this point in the time don\'t hold on to your items. It is not worth the trouble. Before the wipe is when we should do tweaks like the mining limit. Be happy we don\'t do it afterwards.
And, I can find many, many posts where players complain about the lack of game balance only to be told that the devs have better things to do. After all, stability first, game-play second, right?
Exactly. Stability is MUCH more important at this stage. Remember that CB is not a full game yet. It is not even close. Game play is pretty low priority until we got all stability bugs worked out. Don\'t forget we are low on resources and all of us have to work on PS in our free time. We are not payed to work on this.
Come on people! The \"this is a beta\" statement works both ways. It\'s used as a caution that not everything is fully implemented, but does it mean that the developers are working on the limits first? So what if you have hordes of characters running around with extraordinarily high stats and loads of equipment and power?
We want to make sure people can\'t do extraordinary things BEFORE we do the wipe. Not afterwards. This is the time when we need to do things like that. Not after the wipe because then we cannot easily correct it anymore.
Greetings,
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I don\'t see what the complains are about. The actual limit is just a variable. The \'concept\' of limits is a good one, i\'m certain the \'how much\' limit can be adjusted on the fly if it poses a problem. So even if 10 sound bad, making it 50 shouldn\'t be a massive task, making it 10 is probably a good start to see the effect. You have to start somewhere.
As for the \'give-to-buddy-who-runs-and-sell\' scenario. I\'d say if that happens then the system are definitely making progress. You certainly can\'t bot it [maybe the mining player can, but certainly not the selling player]. If you think about it, what will this essentially lead to --> group interaction. I can already imagine having \'miners\' and \'runners\' cooperating. (i already see some specialist chars developing here, merchants and \'transporters\' ) Sure some of it is monotonous, but it\'s certainly a big leap from just standing there and mining all day. Now you\'ll probably have to negotiate with someone to do the running and selling ....and im sure this little supply chain can be developed in all kinds of ways.
Irony is, this is probably exactly how things in real life developed...so i\'d say it\'s pretty amazing if you can put in some system and end up creating \'emergent\' behaviours like that [the requires cooperation].
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Originally posted by Xordan
Draklar: What if one person mines and the other runs back and for selling?? ;) Then you don\'t have to stop mining, and you don\'t have to worry about having a max amount of ore. Yes you have to split the profit, but that isn\'t so bad.
My point is is that you\'ll get at least as much if two players mine on their own. Both mine, both go sell it and both come back.
If the time to run is lesser than to mine 10 ore - they will earn more this way.
If the time to run is bigger than to mine 10 ore - they will earn as much as by exchanging.
So there\'s no really point in the co-operation.
- Swords
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Originally posted by Xordan
Draklar: What if one person mines and the other runs back and for selling?? ;) Then you don\'t have to stop mining, and you don\'t have to worry about having a max amount of ore. Yes you have to split the profit, but that isn\'t so bad.
OMG..i cant belive u actully said that. First of all it takes no more then 1 and a half minutes (yes i counted:]) to get 10 gold ores at level 1+. And it must take around 3 min there 3 min back, keeping in mind that you cant use /spawn anymore(well you can but the Devs dont like it:P)
And even if you use the /spawn command thats still waisting time ;) So the 10 at a time thing imo is bad:(
Originally posted by jorrit
That\'s more work to do. This stack limit is the short-term solution that we can implement now.
Well if this is a short term solution may you tell us how it will work before people stop playing this game all together...please, for noob sake!!;( (heard from players whineing and saying that :rolleyes: ) :
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Originally posted by Mondo
QUOTE]Originally posted by jorrit
That\'s more work to do. This stack limit is the short-term solution that we can implement now.
Well if this is a short term solution may you tell us how it will work before people stop playing this game all together...please, for noob sake!!;( (heard from players whineing and saying that :rolleyes: )
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean? It works by limiting the amount of items of a certain type you can hold in your inventory. i.e. you can only hold 10 gold ores. And 10 iron ores. And so on.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
What do you mean? It works by limiting the amount of items of a certain type you can hold in your inventory. i.e. you can only hold 10 gold ores. And 10 iron ores. And so on.
Greetings,
Ok maybe i should of been more clear, i ment how will the \'real\' one work?
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By weight maybe?
- Swords
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Originally posted by Mondo
Ok maybe i should of been more clear, i ment how will the \'real\' one work?
Since we don\'t have this system yet I don\'t really know. I would suppose we would add up the weight of all items and then based on maximum capacity and strength of player you would get a maximum that you can carry. So a strong player can carry more then a weak player.
Greetings,
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yeah that will be the best way to do it....by weight.....hopefully the devs will really look into it
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As a smith in one life and a miner in another, I understand some of the problems and benefits of each.
As a smith, I was always in need of ores to make weapons and such and I predict that this life will be no different. That being said, the miner must be allowed to carry at many ores as his or her strenght will allow. To limit everyone at the same amount gives no reason to build up their strenght.
If there are monsters in the mining vicinity who attack and distrub the miner, he or she will have to also carry armour and weapons to defend with. This will add to the weight and will limit ore capactity also.
Speed should also be affected by the weight and strenght of the individual.
Of course, this is just my opinion.