PlaneShift

Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Ghekrd on January 27, 2005, 03:15:12 am

Title: Simple Spells
Post by: Ghekrd on January 27, 2005, 03:15:12 am: Instead of mixing glyphs how about just a magic skill? For example, once you become an apprentice you obtain something like a magic book. There are different spells depending on your rank of magic and the way you chose... I don\'t exactly like the glyphs cuz I sometimes don\'t know which glyphs to mix.
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Post by: Moogie on January 27, 2005, 04:19:55 am: That would be uninspiring, uninventive, and unoriginal. Just like every other magic system in every other game out there.

It\'s fun to have a unique system where you actually have to use your brain and figure out the puzzle. Trial and error, experimentation, success and failure. Learning magic is a challenge... it\'s an art... it\'s something to be proud of when you finally figure out the complex glyph combination of a spell which will make you all-powerful.
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Post by: confused on January 27, 2005, 05:15:49 am: Quote
Originally posted by Moogie
That would be uninspiring, uninventive, and unoriginal. Just like every other magic system in every other game out there.

It\'s fun to have a unique system where you actually have to use your brain and figure out the puzzle. Trial and error, experimentation, success and failure. Learning magic is a challenge... it\'s an art... it\'s something to be proud of when you finally figure out the complex glyph combination of a spell which will make you all-powerful.

Well the idea is far from unique, I seen this concept implimenet in a couple CRPGs in the last 15 years and a few Pen & Paper RPGs also have implimented. I also have one with me that has a very similar magic system that is at least 20 years old already.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 21, 2006, 08:27:31 pm: I just had to dredge this thread up to say how much the glyph system bothers me. It's extremely bad for RP-ing a wizard. We apparently have to carry backpacks full of glyphs with us everywhere we go and bring them out and smack them together or something to cast magic. I know that no one's going to change the system just because I don't like it, but this is the wish list, after all.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Gharan on October 21, 2006, 08:33:15 pm: In my opinion the glyphs take far to much inventory space,I only have energy and arrow in my inventory at the moment and sold the rest of my glyphs for more space.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Karyuu on October 21, 2006, 08:38:10 pm: In the future we're most probably going to have a separate "glyph bag."

I think in PlaneShift the magic system alters the established perception of a wizard's job. It's less raising your arms and chanting, and more working with items. Glyphs aren't large objects, and you can hardly expect to be able to work in more than two Ways, at most (in the ultimate end). That already narrows down the amount you have to carry - either you concentrate on the Way that you prefer the most, or you do a little here and there and never rise to true mastery of any.

Mages have to have glyphs about their person - and that gives me some interesting costuming ideas - but I really don't understand how that's bad for roleplay?
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Kezzik on October 21, 2006, 08:41:58 pm: only two ways? well that's dissappointingly limiting
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 21, 2006, 08:54:51 pm: Quote from: Karyuu on October 21, 2006, 08:38:10 pm
Mages have to have glyphs about their person - and that gives me some interesting costuming ideas - but I really don't understand how that's bad for roleplay?
I'd say that first off I'm just a fan of the old wizardry, and therefore this new concept bothers me. I never really RPed before I came to PS, and having to not play the character I want to play in the world that I want to play him in is disturbing.

Also, there's EXTREMELY little explanation of how glyphs are used in an RP sense. What do we do, smack 'em together and hope sparks fly? Also, how much of the magic is dependent on the glyph and how much on the wielder? If it's all the glyph than there's no talent to magic except figuring out which one to use to zap people with.

I'm guessing I'd like the system better if there was more explanation with it.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Karyuu on October 21, 2006, 08:58:43 pm: I'll make a note to add your questions to the Q&A thread then - it's knowledge that would benefit the entire community.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Under the moon on October 22, 2006, 01:08:24 am: This 'glyph' system is hardly original. In countless games, you have to 'equip' an artifact to cast a certian spell. The Suikoden series is a good example of this in action.

I the system bad? *shrugs* Just don't call it original.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: The Shadow Nose on October 24, 2006, 01:40:54 am: Random though:

Personally, I liked the magic system in NetHack. Wizards could do so many cool things because they could read spellbooks to get new powers. But then they need to have enough knowlege in that particular area to even learn the spell in the first place. It has a sort of simplicity in it that I like. (plus the fact that those spellbooks were so hard to find, buy, or iidentify...

Anyway, having spellbooks that teach specific spells sounds really good for me.

One other random thought: Thief vs. Wizard

Theif: I have a skill that lets me steal items from another persons inventory.

Wizard: Oh yeah! I can summon bolts of energy to strike down my enemies... as long as I hold these little glyph things.

Thief: *steals the wizards glyphs* Yoink!

Wizard: ...

Moral of the story: Skills are better than items, because nobody can steal your skills.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Under the moon on October 24, 2006, 02:33:12 am: *makes sure to level up on the /yoink skill*

I see glyphs like magic wands. Just a conduit for the knowledge and skills of the wizard. Each glyph is 'prepped' to ehance certain spells.

I would like to see glyphs that can hold more than one spell, or advanced custom spells. (more on that later)
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 24, 2006, 02:44:04 am: It still just seems extremely awkward in practicality. Almost as if the glyph system was thought up specifically so that anyone could use magic, but no one would be a "pure" magic wielder.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Under the moon on October 24, 2006, 03:04:12 am: I agree. You will like what I am thinking up in my devious mind. Too bad it would not be esy for n00bs to learn, so it will never happen. :(
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 24, 2006, 05:18:59 am: Well, let me know anyway, that way we can mock the feeble-minded noobs together.
Title: Re:
Post by: Avangard on October 24, 2006, 06:27:29 am: Quote from: confused on January 27, 2005, 05:15:49 am
Quote
Originally posted by Moogie
That would be uninspiring, uninventive, and unoriginal. Just like every other magic system in every other game out there.

It\'s fun to have a unique system where you actually have to use your brain and figure out the puzzle. Trial and error, experimentation, success and failure. Learning magic is a challenge... it\'s an art... it\'s something to be proud of when you finally figure out the complex glyph combination of a spell which will make you all-powerful.
Well the idea is far from unique, I seen this concept implimenet in a couple CRPGs in the last 15 years and a few Pen & Paper RPGs also have implimented. I also have one with me that has a very similar magic system that is at least 20 years old already.

The idea may be far from unique but is being proposed is even farther from unique.

I hate the story with the thief because to tell you the truth, a thief can steal a bow and arrows, and a sword and a shield etc... it is a bad example.

in any case I like the glyph system much more than a magic "skill"

if you are going to propose something I think you should propose something you don't see often, I mean sure combining glyphs may not be original, but if you were to pick any random mmorpg, chances are you will probably see magic "skills" not glyphs.

On that note... something I haven't seen often is magic requiring a physical effort. My two cents are based on the Harry Potter game (it sux except for the spell learning system. When you start the game you don't know any spells. The instructor shows you a shape and you have to trace it as best as you can in the least amount of time. The first one (expel.... something) is a simple spiral. and you get graded on your accuracy and speed. I think this can be used as part of the spell casting system. It would be really nice if you could integrate it with the glyph system though... for example: The power of the spell is determined by your accuracy in tracing the figure, the speed it takes you to cast the spell is determined by the speed with which you trace the figure, and ofcourse, the glyphs determine what kind of magic skills you must posess to cast the spell (Red Crystal, Dark, Arure, Brown, and eh... Blue?). You could go back and trace the spell over and over to make it more powerful and faster, or you could let it slowly adjust with time by raising your magic skills. Now that must be a lot to implement, but it is just an idea, and it is a rare find. (I won't call it original to save the "it's not original" phrases from piling up)

EDIT: you would need physical stamina to trace the shape of the spell. The heavier the item you're holding, the more physical stamina you need to cast the spell, so bear handed would turn out to be the best.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 24, 2006, 06:38:01 am: I think the point here is that the glyph system is just unoriginal and awkward in many ways. The skill system is unoriginal, but it works well in every way. As for physical stamina... what, so now wizards have to be strong? Ergh.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: bilbous on October 24, 2006, 06:55:09 am: Quote from: Phinehas on October 24, 2006, 06:38:01 am
The skill system is unoriginal, but it works well in every way.

NOT.

Buying training in any skill at higher levels is a real pain (carpal tunnel anyone?) but I don't suppose you were talking about the interface.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 24, 2006, 06:56:59 am: No, no I wasn't.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Nikodemus on October 24, 2006, 12:04:13 pm: I don't find the glyph system bad. It would be good to know how exactly are the glyphs used by mages, but for now i don't feel bad with them as condition to cast a spell.
Also, maybe we already should know a lot about glyphs, by reading some tips given in OOC way by devs team and from talking to NPCs ?
Lets say a mage has staff. What the mage do, is attach all his glyphs to the staf in various ways, to have easy access to them. I don't know if the mage has to touch them/see/put in the right order/or somethink, but glyphs on a staff seam to be good solution. It could be as well a spellbook, where not only are the glyphs attached to it, but the formulas/rituals/descriptions for mages who still need to recall them more often than expert mages.

The fact the glyphs are in inventory doesn't spoil a bit. This what is wrong is the fact there are limited slots in inventory. It is not normal that you can have in it few stacks of different kinds of swords and still have a lot slots empty, but if you have a lot of different glyphs, you suddently have no free slots left. How is that possible when the swords take 100 times more room than the glyphs?

The inventory slots should be infinite

Its not like in diablo, we have other factors here, like capacity, or weight limit.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: bilbous on October 24, 2006, 06:54:51 pm: Quote from: Nikodemus on October 24, 2006, 12:04:13 pm
The fact the glyphs are in inventory doesn't spoil a bit. This what is wrong is the fact there are limited slots in inventory. It is not normal that you can have in it few stacks of different kinds of swords and still have a lot slots empty, but if you have a lot of different glyphs, you suddently have no free slots left. How is that possible when the swords take 100 times more room than the glyphs?

But you have sacks you can put stuff in and you can put sacks in sacks. and sacks in sacks in sacks....What we really need is a way to label sacks.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Nikodemus on October 24, 2006, 07:46:47 pm: Quote from: bilbous on October 24, 2006, 06:54:51 pm
But you have sacks you can put stuff in and you can put sacks in sacks. and sacks in sacks in sacks....What we really need is a way to label sacks.
Yeah, getting a glyph which is inside a sack which is inside another sach, which for a change is in a sack hidden in a sack, is really the way how you would do it in real ;P Especially that glyphs should be easly accessible.
Inventory is for every possible item you got, so that when you are going to sell it, you can look on every item which you have and decide which of them you need.
But it is getting off topic. :-|
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 25, 2006, 02:36:33 am: I still think that the glyphs system is impractical for pure mages. Just to get back on topic.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: bilbous on October 25, 2006, 05:35:04 am: Maybe what is needed is to one or more equipped to mind, more slots could be opened for higher int, cha, and wil. For the combo spells you would need all relevant glyphs in mind. That way you could keep the actual glyphs in a bag and still cast the spells.
Title: Re: Simple Spells
Post by: Phinehas on October 25, 2006, 06:37:24 am: Eh... still awkward, but better. I was thinking of a similar concept myself, but not so sure...