PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Exaero_Fiero on January 30, 2005, 11:52:03 pm
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As many can see, every day, there are at least few guilds created. However many of them have only one member or live no longer than three days. Some \"younger\" players just create a guild to have a couple of \"l337\" words under their names. Some do it just because they want to become someone important at once. Oh, well.
I\'m not sure about opinions of other PS players, but myself I would like to see a more strict control over guilds, so that a guild is something more than just a \"l337\" words under the name.
My idea would be the invention of a large fee for the creation of a guild. The point of it is that, players will have to spend at least some time at playing PS. As well as be absolutely sure in a necessity of a new guild.
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i say nay. Also weho are you to make such decisions are you a gm, no. A programer maybe, no. THen dont take it on yourself to make such large dicisions. After all, this is a FREE fantasy mmorpg and will ALWAYS remain a FREE fantasy mmorpg
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This is the Wish List board, its where suggestions go. They aren\'t deciding for the developer, they are suggesting, so don\'t talk like they think they\'re the dev. Personally I think its a good idea. I am certain they didn\'t mean a fee in cash, but a fee in tria.
\"Why look in one other board you were talking about wanting everything to be fully pvp. I say nay. Who are you to make such decisions? A GM? No. A Programmer? No. Then don\'t take it on yourself to make such large decisions.\"
Thats how I should reply to that thread if this is how you are going to react to someone else\'s suggestions.
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Originally posted by WizardsRule
i say nay. Also weho are you to make such decisions are you a gm, no. A programer maybe, no. THen dont take it on yourself to make such large dicisions. After all, this is a FREE fantasy mmorpg and will ALWAYS remain a FREE fantasy mmorpg
idiot, yes he means in tria, and this is a wishlist thread, where things people propose maybe implemented... he doesnt have to be a GM or Dev, so be quiet...
anyway i think its a good idea, it will limit guilds to only those that are commited unlike most guilds now... so i say go for it...
just because you can spout about it being free, gives you no right to say that people cant express their ideas here...
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Implementing a fee will just make them want to powerlevel more, I think. Just one more reason to kill things nonstop... I don\'t quite see how it would help much.
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it not like you can stop power lvling.as ong as the rogue on ojaroad exists there will be power lvling.i agree with Exaero_Fiero
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Hmm, powerleveling might go up a little, but I think the amount of n00b guilds will go down alot. The pros outweigh the cons. I know of alot of games that do this, and it has been pretty successful from what I\'ve seen.
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Perhaps a different method so they dont feel they have to power level. Mabye they just need a minium number of members to start (WarCraft3), only make it so they dont all have to be online at once, and that in the origanl 5/10/Whatever, only one player per e-mail address is allowed, to stop people from logging in and out of there 3 accounts and accepting the invitation to the guild.
-Just me 2 cents, Matt
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I do like the minimum amount of members required idea. In reality, guilds don\'t really start out of nowhere, they start when an already-gathered group of people with common interests want to form a larger organization. I think that will definitely force people to either look for similar guilds or roleplay to find members.
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I could go for that instead, too. It does make sense... :)
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by DA-BOMB: Perhaps a different method so they dont feel they have to power level. Mabye they just need a minium number of members to start (WarCraft3), only make it so they dont all have to be online at once, and that in the origanl 5/10/Whatever, only one player per e-mail address is allowed, to stop people from logging in and out of there 3 accounts and accepting the invitation to the guild.
I\'m afraid, that will hurt small but elite guilds like Ashes and potentially strong powers like Helmora Velsha and Raven Guard.
It may also be as you say, however to prevent cheating using \"one-minute members\", it might be helpful to add an additional rule to that. The easiest I can think of is if the the guild has less members, than the standart for creation, it is automatically disbanded. Considering that all the characters from one account can only sustain in one guild.
By Karyuu: I think that will definitely force people to either look for similar guilds or roleplay to find members.
Why are so sure a newbie will roleplay in order to find himself member? Don\'t you think, it will be easier for them to trash the chat with \"Sup, who wantz 2 make teh guil?\" shouts?
Look at the very first post in the thread and reread the sentences 3 & 4 of the first paragraph. Do you really think there are any decents guilds to please that side of a newbie nature?
I would also not be surprised, if such implemention will trigger a wave of \"Uberguildism\"...
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Originally posted by Exaero_Fiero
As many can see, every day, there are at least few guilds created. However many of them have only one member or live no longer than three days. Some \"younger\" players just create a guild to have a couple of \"l337\" words under their names. Some do it just because they want to become someone important at once. Oh, well.
I\'m not sure about opinions of other PS players, but myself I would like to see a more strict control over guilds, so that a guild is something more than just a \"l337\" words under the name.
My idea would be the invention of a large fee for the creation of a guild. The point of it is that, players will have to spend at least some time at playing PS. As well as be absolutely sure in a necessity of a new guild.
I think to make a guild you should have about 10 people to make it. Any less and NO guild. lol.
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Originally posted by Exaero_Fiero
Why are so sure a newbie will roleplay in order to find himself member? Don\'t you think, it will be easier for them to trash the chat with \"Sup, who wantz 2 make teh guil?\" shouts?
No, because that will cause problems with GMs, and they\'ll either get a warning, or a swift kick if they persist. So yes, I am sure that it\'s going to have at least a few positive results.
This will cause them to interact more with other characters instead of running off to kill mobs or mine rocks, and if they don\'t interact in the right way, then they will face some consequences.
Not too hard.
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I think to make a guild you should have about 10 people to make it. Any less and NO guild. lol.
To a guild be oficial, needs to have a web-site and 10 members. About the rest of the guilds that you are talking about, ho cares with them?
Do u care with all the new guilds that appear in PS day after day?
Those \"guilds\" dont exist for me, unless there are good ppl and pledged ppl behind they, ho take this has he/she objective to RolePlay.
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Perhaps instead of a cost in trias, put a limit on the number of members allowed depending on how long the guild master has been on PS. That wouldn\'t really stop \"noob\" guilds, but said guilds would gradually become better over time.
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it makes ense, but then you forget that unofficial \"clans\" will replace guilds when people form them with their friends ;)
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I think both suggestions are good and I agree with the idea that there should be a bit of \"control\" (this word scares me) on the guilds.
Anyway, there are lots of ways to prevent these problems...Guild creation could be also limited to players with a certain amount of in-game time, or even to those who have completed some quests...
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I dont think its right to limit people and their guilds based on time, nor do I feel like listing the endless reasons why that wouldn\'t work :P
-Just my 2 circles, Matt
P.S. not meant to be offeneding to whoevers ideas I bashed on.
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If you\'re not explaining the reasons behind your opinions, then it\'s really a pointless post... o_O
Please don\'t do that. This isn\'t a poll, it\'s a discussion.
We might as well try out these ideas for a time to see if they produce any positive results. Right?
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Originally posted by warfo
Anyway, there are lots of ways to prevent these problems...Guild creation could be also limited to players with a certain amount of in-game time, or even to those who have completed some quests...
Both of your solutions only attempt to solve one problem - relatively young (IC) age of players creating guilds. However they do not even try to do anything else.
Originally posted by Karyuu
No, because that will cause problems with GMs, and they\'ll either get a warning, or a swift kick if they persist. So yes, I am sure that it\'s going to have at least a few positive results.
Alright... Even though GM\'s will have some extra to work to do, I guess its a solution and bugging will become more \"private\". :)
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I\'m not a big fan of guild creation fees. In a few other MMO\'s ive played (ragnarok online, ROSE online) there is a huge guild creation fee and/or you have to aquire a very rare item to make a guild and I think it\'s a bad idea because it means that people just starting out can\'t make a guild with their friends. Or maybe the fee could not be too expensive. In final fantasy 11 when I first started over a year ago, I created a guild it costed about 8,000 gil (money) and that wasn\'t that bad of a price. Now in creating this guild as a newbie (as most of the players were at the time I started) I invited strangers into my guild and we all \"grew up\" together as one and helped each other learn the game and it was a lot of fun. My guild has become a very well known guild on the server now and we are quite successful. So just becuase there are newbie guilds popping up doesn\'t mean that they won\'t become good ones in the future. Yes there are lots of guilds that will be created and die off fast, but what\'s the big deal? why does that concern you? That\'s not really anyones business in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Ashamn
To a guild be oficial, needs to have a web-site and 10 members. About the rest of the guilds that you are talking about, ho cares with them?
>.> I don\'t like you... :P ;)
Anyway, rp-wise fee is the only logical conclusion.
Didn\'t hear any good argument against it either.
You will be getting more money from various jobs, not hunting monsters, so not much of power-leveling...
By the way, I\'ve seen people freely advertising their guilds by /shout and /say.
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Originally posted by Jakob
Perhaps instead of a cost in trias, put a limit on the number of members allowed depending on how long the guild master has been on PS. That wouldn\'t really stop \"noob\" guilds, but said guilds would gradually become better over time.
WHAT did i just say! Have it that you need to have 10 people and what the other guy said aslo need a site.
So you need to have at least 10 and a webpage to make a guild. Now thats the smart way to do it.
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Originally posted by Soulless_Body
So you need to have at least 10 and a webpage to make a guild. Now thats the smart way to do it.
haha yea, very smart - get 10 members when you actually have no guild to recruit them to :P
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well if any1 can be bothered reading the website it actully sez somethingabut guild and how u need to hyave 10 members awebsite and info about ur site.
im just saying wat it sez on the site so dont crack it at me:)
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It actually says about guild becoming official
And it is Kada who makes guilds official anyway, not devs :D ;)
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Originally posted by Draklar
It actually says about guild becoming official
And it is Kada who makes guilds official anyway, not devs :D ;)
Eugghh...?
A good session on the ale at the tavern is followed by waking up with strange people standing over you that keep chanting something about the successful nude run initiation that took place in the middle of Hydlaa Plaza. Thus making you their leader.
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you lost me
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I do like the minimum amount of members required idea. In reality, guilds don\'t really start out of nowhere, they start when an already-gathered group of people with common interests want to form a larger organization. I think that will definitely force people to either look for similar guilds or roleplay to find members.
And what about small, selective guilds? They might have to relax their standards just to meet the minimum requirement to create one. There really is no good solution to stop the amount of guilds created for either having a \'c00l\' tag under their name or just to BS around with, or whatever reason.
My personal thought is an annual fee (trias), based on the amount of members in the guild. It would be paid to the government of Hydlaa (or other cities once houses are implemented and guilds can reside elsewhere), much resembling a rent or tax. It wouldn\'t be a static price though. Something like...
< 10 members: 100 trias each
< 15 members: 90 trias each
< 20 members: 75 trias each
Sort of a buying in bulk thing. That way wouldn\'t discourage small guilds or big guilds and power levelers would have to manage their guilds a little bit more. Each person would have to pull their weight. And that money could be gotten in a good day of hunting.
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I\'m in favour of some kind of limit to starting a guild, but it must be enjoyable to do. A quest, for example would be an excellent way to create a guild. It musn\'t be hard, but enough to stop newbies from starting guilds up straight away and then leaving them to rot.
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I agree with quest idea except it should be extremely difficult. Who ever heard of a weak guild leader and who in thier right minds would want one.
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Originally posted by WizardsRule
I agree with quest idea except it should be extremely difficult. Who ever heard of a weak guild leader and who in thier right minds would want one.
No, because not everyone will have the same skills. It must be as easy for a master chef to complete as a master swordsman.
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My thoughts on what I have read so far...
Fee on guild creation: Well Depending on th situation this can be a good or bad thing, with how hard it is to make money in this game a very high tria price isn\'t viable.
Minimum amount of time spent in game: I have to be against this idea, I\'ve been in other games where some of the very good people only login twice a month or less.
Minimum Members: Due to time contraints it\'s probably difficult to get the minimum members all at once at the if guild creation, perhaps it can be a simple minimum like 3 people (different e-mails) And allow a guild to exist with less then that for about a week. In this method newbie guilds will die off gradually when the game checks that their time of not having enough members has passed. Though I suppose in this situation the counter has to be reset once they do get enough members.
Website needed: No comment... I think... the game has no way of telling whether or not your guild has a website.
Paying money to the government: I do not think that till will help RPing at all, more likely to encourage people to get money like mad. There might eventually or even already exist a guild which does charitable acts to help new players, such a guild will probably have very little loose funds to pay with.
A quest to get the permission to create a guild: I like this idea, but with the current state of NPC interaction some people might go insane before suceeding in making the quest. I do not know if the game support something similar, but instead of setting a flag or getting an item which gives you the right to make a guild, maybe a \'authorization\' code can be given to you by the game to give you permission to make the guild, of course this code would probably be a simple 4 character hash of your name(so it\'s character specific (saddly this means the guild founder must be the one to do the quest)), just to make sure people can\'t just infinitely loop the quest and then giving away the quest reward for making the guild. So I am made to wonder, what type of quest will it be? Tell Harquinst that you would like to make a guild and then travel to the city at the other end of ojaveda where the weapons merchant there will give you, your name specific code?
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Nice idea Clover. Although cost for each member should grow (not decrease) when guild grows.
That would be a kick in the rear for the \"Zerg Guilds\" :rolleyes:
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I actually find myself agreeing with Kloe. Someone may create a guild, but that doesn\'t mean it will be successful. After so much time of Guild Inactivity the guildmaster will probably disband the guild if he/she can\'t get any members, or their guild isn\'t well known enough for anything to actually do anything.
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really, men you are speaking about important things and YOU LL NEVER KNOW WHAT EVERYBODY THINK cause every ps player don\'t come here !!!
So I think everytime you take decisions without knowing what everybody are thinking like if you were some kind of king...
Im totally against fees Im totally against every form of idea which means forbidden something. You are allowed to do that you arent allowed to do that Why ? because its bad ! because You arent allowed! Eh man ! you are in fight club isn\'t it and when a guy dye you call him Robert Polson? or maybe have you some counsciousness of what you do ?
Cause everytime you take a right to a human, you make he think he dont have to think about what is fair! He just do what\'s allowed and even sometime he do the contrary just because he want to flame you...
Really stop trying to give us your idea. We won\'t think like you. WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT and I dont like to see I cant write on this forum the name of a famous linux program cause the name is a word you cant listen to. I dont like to see You are telling us it must be a fee cause there are too many guilds which one player... Really if you pay 75 trias for each player you have, so a one membered guild can exist there is no problem !
In fact the problem is that you want priviledges because You have money and the others no... In fact as you cant use some word because somebody forbid it to you, you tell you dont want to see that another player can use this word...
Really if you want to live in a totally restriccted world you\'ll ruin the community of ps first, then youll kill the fun of the game and finally you\'ll kill the moral in the heart of each human...
Money isn\'t a good solution... look at the real world... Money is killing us... to have an fee is really a bad solution but to pay each year... it\'s a huge lost of mind...
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Why does it even matter??Little kids should be able to feel important wenever they want..A fee (In trias) would just attract less people because part of this game that makes it fun is finding a group of friends and go off adventuring with them or have battles with other friends you have or new friends you made while playing planeshift...Either way i rely dont care if it cost money or not :P
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fken: chill.
Little kids should be able to feel important wenever they want..
No they shouldn\'t, that just encourages them to trolling.
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Why cant you just stop being a snob for once and let the babies ave there bottles.. its not like theyr going to team up and kill us because theyr so powerful..If they were good they wouldnt have this forum....But aside from this argument i agree with clovers idea of annual fee and the more players the less money so it encourages small guilds to build and large guilds to stay together...well thats kindof taken right out of clovers text but..you get the idea
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:rolleyes: at the first part of above post.
Now for the second:
Why reduction of prices is bad idea:
1) Gameplay: Monopoly. Encouraging of mass recruiting, aka Zerg Guilds.
If you don\'t know what that is, here\'s a quote: In addition, some guilds mass recruit players to be large enough to have an advantage, nicknamed zerg guild after the Zerg race in the popular real-time strategy game Starcraft that was only effective in large numbers. These groups can use their influence to affect gameplay by, for example, \"owning\" areas of the world, controlling the economy, or using tactics like zerging. Such forces discourage casual players.
Simply, no possibility of growing for the smaller guilds.
2) Roleplay: So the tax from guilds goes to government. And government is the one setting taxes. So let\'s say, people in government actually know how to earn money. What if they let it be as you say? Only already large guilds keep growing, government gets less and less money from each new member. If they would do it the other way around, there would be some moment when guild wouldn\'t be able to grow anymore, giving the smaller ones possibility to do so.
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I think to create a guild should be as now: absolutely free because only the time will decide if that Guild have success or not. If the char move his/her ass (sorry for this word) to improve it it\'s ok if not that Guild will die with him/her... And i think to have a Guild with only one member is like to drunk alone...
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What if some Old fashion stile Role players want to come in and make a guild that has RP behind it such as they are a family or clan they get there 5 new players to come in as it and then they make there clan. I mean these \"Guilds\" if you want to get real technical you a Guild needs to do a specific job such as crafters guild or some thing like that that is what an actual guild is. In terms of gamming its just a group of friends I really don?t think there should be any restrictions on it for both RP and for the general fun of it. What?s the big deal about having free guilds of any size any way? If a guild has no reputation than there not respected.
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Guilds should stay the way they are. for people who train but don\'t have lots of money, then they cant be a part of their guild. kinda stupid to me...and before you all start to bash me or other \"leave it as it is\" people, why don\'t we ASK the guild leaders that post here if they want this to happen. We could vote on it and let it be. What do you say?
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What if 5 people fit really well together and do not fit with anyone else in the game? What if these 5 people want to make a secret guild and keep it within just those 5? Are these 5 people causing someone pain by starting a guild. Did you wake up this morning and think: \"WOW! Another guild this is annoying me so much I REALLY have to make a post about it!\" Why limit someone else\'s fun, creativity, enjoyment, and gaming experience because something bothers YOU. This is a game for everyone, not just for you.
Just my opinion.
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Originally posted by Downright
What if 5 people fit really well together and do not fit with anyone else in the game? What if these 5 people want to make a secret guild and keep it within just those 5? Are these 5 people causing someone pain by starting a guild. Did you wake up this morning and think: \"WOW! Another guild this is annoying me so much I REALLY have to make a post about it!\" Why limit someone else\'s fun, creativity, enjoyment, and gaming experience because something bothers YOU. This is a game for everyone, not just for you.
Just my opinion.
As Guild Master of Chaotic Warriors I have to say:
Hehe that what were Chaotic Warriors doing since 2003...:D Only now we came out from the shadows...
But hey, bad guilds just do not last...Another thing...I rather like paying money to the government...let\'s call it taxation...Player number requirements...errrrr nah...
Oh and nother thing (off-topic, a bit :D)
Zerg race in the popular real-time strategy game Starcraft that was only effective in large numbers.
That ONLY is a bit over the top...Zerg do not always outnumber and you dont really need large numbers to win...:D
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Originally posted by Downright
What if 5 people fit really well together and do not fit with anyone else in the game? What if these 5 people want to make a secret guild and keep it within just those 5? Are these 5 people causing someone pain by starting a guild. Did you wake up this morning and think: \"WOW! Another guild this is annoying me so much I REALLY have to make a post about it!\" Why limit someone else\'s fun, creativity, enjoyment, and gaming experience [...]
Just my opinion.
...rrrright. I agree that there shall not be an \"artificial\" limit. Quite some real guilds (from Real Life) were made out of very few people.
I think there will evolve a natural limit: Housing and its costs. Guilds will need a house, that house will cost money (if the game-designers know what a money-sink is, and what it is good for), and if the guild-members cannot pay the upkeep, then... well, then that\'s it.
Otherwise, \"guilds\" in MMORPGs are just \"clubs\", not true guilds. True guilds (from RL) had a meaning because they were able to uphold a monopoly upon some important ressource, usually by a protective law.
This is almost never true for MMORPG-guilds. So what? Let them band together, call it \"guild\", who cares?
If it is fun, I\'d say: Everything is allowed, as long as it does not hinder me.
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1) What are the benefits of a guild.
2) What would you pay for that benefit.
This is ignoring the fact that 99% of guilds aren\'t guilds, but clans or clubs.
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Originally posted by Downright
What if 5 people fit really well together and do not fit with anyone else in the game? What if these 5 people want to make a secret guild and keep it within just those 5? Are these 5 people causing someone pain by starting a guild. Did you wake up this morning and think: \"WOW! Another guild this is annoying me so much I REALLY have to make a post about it!\" Why limit someone else\'s fun, creativity, enjoyment, and gaming experience because something bothers YOU. This is a game for everyone, not just for you.
Just my opinion.
Responding to this, I think the best way to control the creation of guilds would be only with GM permission. A GM would allow you to create a guild only if you meet certain requirements and, since situations vary, could bend the rules every now and then. This would almost totally eliminate noob guilds, while still giving new roleplayers a chance.
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I still fail to understand why it hurts to have all these \"n00b guilds\" around.
Of course the temptation will always be there to be leader. The option is there, so people choose it. Just like the option to fight with two weapons is available, so everyone fights with two. Is everyone in Yliakum ambidextrous? Anyway...
What are we taking offense to here? What is the harm? Does it stop you from getting members? Probably. But do you really need warm blood so badly that these fools that probably won\'t be around longer than a few days deserve to be in your guild. (If you\'re really after blood that badly, I hear there are vampires in Hydlaa now...)
Bottom line: It\'s OUT OF CHARACTER to demand that guilds pay money to no one, have a certain amount of membership, and certainly have a website to become official. No one in Yliakum has a computer. How will you demand of them to make a website? Where does this \"fee\" go? Who decides what\'s official? During character creation, I can select to have an \"invisible friend.\" What if he and I want to make a club? Who are you to stop me? Perhaps they are massively popular in Yliakum. Perhaps people need a way of banding together. Perhaps instead of thinking so much about realism we need to immerse ourselves a little further and figure out a way to cope with this \"problem\" by finding a way for our own characters to express it?
Don\'t attack a \"problem\" if the solution can just as easily be found in yourself. Sometimes your perceptions just aren\'t what they seem.
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It has been stated that the devs intend to make guilding -beneficial-.
This is where the issue comes up. If it was just a matter of being given a chat channel, it wouldn\'t matter why anyone \'guilded\'.
I do not neccissarily advocate costs, as I have no idea what the benefits will BE, but benefits in a game tend to cost something.
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I think that aside from a fee in trias and a minimum number of people (though 10 could be too high, I would have about 20 people I know right now in a new guild but only 4 or so are unguilded and I wouldn\'t want to ask any of them to disband) there should be a required skill amount for the leader. Perhaps at least three skill up to level 10 to make it seem a little more prestigious to make a guild.
Also I think that if a guild falls below the said number of required members then the leader should be given a warning instead of automatically disbanded. \"Your guild has fallen below the required number of members, you will be disbanded in X days.\"
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/me thought it was becoming very repetitive, and didn\'t read the last posts...
My personal thought is an annual fee (trias), based on the amount of members in the guild. It would be paid to the government of Hydlaa (or other cities once houses are implemented and guilds can reside elsewhere), much resembling a rent or tax. It wouldn\'t be a static price though. Something like...
< 10 members: 100 trias each
< 15 members: 90 trias each
< 20 members: 75 trias each
That will be decided by the people that are in the governement... maybe they would want maybe not, that\'s not with the Devs...
About the rest of the guilds that you are talking about, ho cares with them?
Indeed, I do the same, unless I know the leader or see that the guild has potencial. You only care about the other guilds if you want.
I agree with Kloe, he/she invited a bunch of strangers, became friends and now are very united and help each other alot.
The minimum member thingy won\'t work, take The Ashes for example, it\'s a very good guild, very selective, members are like the best of the best, so they only have 2 or 4 members...
The fee: might work... and it might not work...
The names of the guilds: GMs already take care of that, any non-RPG name, offensive name and all that... well, the GMs are here aren\'t they (poor GMs... work, work, work)
Anyway, what\'s the matter with you people?! If the players don\'t like the guild they are in, either they end it or they leave it... it\'s upo to the people.
I don\'t mind the tria fee, but the rest may be against some guild beliafs (is it right spelled?).
Also are you afraid that this noob guilds steal precious members? If they are good members they\'ll see that the guild isn\'t that good and leave it and also if some stay it means the guild is better than you thought... it may be made by a new player, but it may be original, with good goals and might have potencial to be a good guild.
It\'s hard to put it into words...
/me sighs
well... any doubts... you know, criticize, ask... that\'s why we are here...
EDIT: YAY, I\'m a Double-As :P