PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Efflixi Aduro on February 15, 2005, 06:07:58 am
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Now, in the world today there is much more tolerance than there was like 50 years ago. Racism, sexism etc. still exists but now as much as it did. Now why do i bring this up, because I think racist guilds will begin to pop up and there needs to be a rule about it before they begin showing up. Now, people might come out and say \"all racists must die bla bla bla....\" I would agree that no one should be racist, sexist, etc. But, we are talking about the planeshift world here. Should guild be allowed to be made that hate Enki, Lemurs, etc. Because they just do?
I think this should be allowed in some form. I think things like this will make a more realistic planeshift world. But, I dont think it should become into somthing like No-enki bars or anything, that might turn it into a big issue.
Looking for your guys thoughts toward this, please post your opinion.
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Well since I am the leader of a racist guild I have to agree with no restrictions. We only allow the elven races. Not because we hate everyone else, but because we only like ourselves. If that makes sense. I believe \"racist\" Guilds provide good rp experiences personally.
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Ya I though about your guild while thinking about this. I don\'t think you guys count as racist really just have big egos :P. And you don\'t specificly hate one race...
I agree that it adds to the rp experiance though.
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Wherever there is an environment where more than one group of people is present, some will feel that they are better than another group. From this comes tension, resentment, and sometimes violence.
Guilds, though that are composed of one race (not species because it seems they can all breed together except for the Kran) are not necessarily bad. They share a background and culture. These guilds on the other hand can be breeding grounds for distrust, anger, and hate of other races or groups.
And as Aendar has said it will, or already does, add an element of role-playing. It adds tension, conflict, and body to stories as well as races. It can also lead to stereo-typing of races that has to be gotten around to form friendships. Of course this can be taken too far. As long as races are on equal ground though, I believe it will only add to create a better setting and story.
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Yes, but what about a guild that accepts everyone except, lets say, kran. And rules include PKing krans, stealing from them, etc.
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Originally posted by Kwip (yes I am quoting myself)
As long as races are on equal ground though
I meant this as where one group was not singled out by multiple groups. In the case you state, that is what I consider getting out of hand and should be dealt with.
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But does forming a guild based upon a society of a singlerace count as racism?
i mean my guild is dwarves only were a scociety of dwarves(rp reasons)...but if any one in it were to say discriminate towards or insult sanother player based upon their \"race\" theyd be out end of story so i guess what im really trying to say is what exactly is (by your definition atleast) racism?
regards
-Tarach
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Racism means that you consider your race superior to others.
So basically what Aendar said. Altho\' I *am* surprised that racist guild accepts half-breeds ^^
But, well... there is no much place for racism around here, because \'tis obvious that Dermorians are better than everyone else...
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I think it would be interesting if you instituted a law that said that all guilds must be open to all races. You could have like a mini civil rights movement in Planeshift and have the \"racist\" guilds having controvercies over having 3 or 4 other members of a different race but keeping them very low ranks. IDK seems kind of a good idea, but then again it might strike a chord with some people as phony and a lame attempt to pay homage to the real civil rights movement.
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Someone is missing the time period that PS is in... again...
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As long as you keep it IC, I don\'t see the reason why you can\'t hate certain races, but if you start breaking laws about it, I can assure you someone will put you into a machine that\'ll cause you endless amounts of pain... So play nice. :)
But then again, I\'m not really the one who decides if people can be rasists or not. It\'s just my oppinion.
Edit: Just don\'t come to these forums and start complaining about not being able to join certain guilds, or that some poeple are mean to you, because that\'s whining. And whining doesn\'t belong here. It belongs in a /tell with the GMs. :)
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From http://www.planeshift.it/setting_races.html
The city of Yliakum is a melting pot of races with different culture and origin, mixed and integrated by living together over the centuries. Racial suspicion and hostility are completely unknown, given that the greater part of people belonging to one race is normally married to someone of another race.
Just my two tria
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Originally posted by Cyberchu
From http://www.planeshift.it/setting_races.html
The city of Yliakum is a melting pot of races with different culture and origin, mixed and integrated by living together over the centuries. Racial suspicion and hostility are completely unknown, given that the greater part of people belonging to one race is normally married to someone of another race.
Just my two tria
Exactly. For mre info, and also for my stance on this, see this thread (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=9768&boardid=11).
Furthermore, things like racism already appear in PS. When I recently was making my first 10 steps in the world, I was challenged twice (by different persons, but fromt the same guild IIRC) until I turned on auto-decline. When I (IC) asked the first challenger why he wanted to kill me, I got a very racist reply before the person just went away to challenge someone else.
This proves that racism is only used to justify PvP, and not RP, since of it weren\'t this way, he would have started arguing with me before challenging me, and not onla when prompted for an explanation.
I\'m entirely not happy with \"XYZ only\" guilds, unless it is absolutely clear that other species wouldn\'t be able to do what the guild is about, and can\'t be of any other use. Even a Kran can do something in a magic guild, so should not be excluded simply for being a Kran.
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:tup: for racism
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i am in support of fewer rules... in that i say forced policies on guild creation... if the guild decides to be a racist guild...fine....
but they will certainly face some difficulties...people willl be less cooperative... same trading guild won\'t trade with them.... people won\'t help them if they are attacked by more creatures then they can handle.
Devs or GMs should not try to make planeshift an utopia... George Orwell and many other writers showed what happens when you try to do that.
actually one of the devs...has a nice D&D quote about opprtunities.. in his sig....
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Originally posted by Kaseijin
Devs or GMs should not try to make planeshift an utopia... George Orwell and many other writers showed what happens when you try to do that.
actually one of the devs...has a nice D&D quote about opprtunities.. in his sig....
I don\'t see PS being tried to be made into an utopia. I only see that it is being tried to get rid of the most annoying and stupid things that exist in RL. If PS were meant to be an utopia, there wouldn\'t be any combat, would there?
As for the quote (I assume you are referring to the Drizzt one): I don\'t see this applying anywhere except for being against racism, because with racism, the opportunities would not be equal.
:tdown: for racism!
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you give the non racist and racist guilds the same opprotuinity.... and see which one fails and which one succeeds
i am going to kill the suspense and say that the open race guilds will be more successful....still i say let people have secular guilds...
basically i am against any affermative action in PS
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Well, racism is being used as a cheap excuse for PvP and otherwise totally unjustifiable aggression, and there are many people who are just into that. They\'re usually called \"griefers\" and, because it will help them, powerlevellers will also be joining this sort of guild, so I think there will be at least one or two very powerful racist guilds, which is something really, really bad.
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I don\'t see why you can\'t roleplay someone who dislikes a certain race, or is proud of his own race. They can suffer the consequences (or benifits). Making it a rule that \"You can\'t be mean to Krans\" doesn\'t make any sense at all to me.
Saytra, I skimmed that other thread and I never did find a strong argument why racism should not be allowed.
It encourages PKing? There is no open PKing, you still have to accept a challenge, so I don\'t see why it would increase PKing.
Furthermore, we already have an element of racism, if subtle, already implemented. Ojevada, an Enki town. If all races are to be united and treated as equals, why do we already have a town comprised mainly of Enkidukai? They obviously want to band together and live their lives somewhat united as a race. Of course, that doesn\'t mean they hate other races, but simply by wanting to live together, they are saying we are superior, or at least different, than other races.
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Originally posted by Icefalcon
It encourages PKing? There is no open PKing, you still have to accept a challenge, so I don\'t see why it would increase PKing.
It would, because if you are RPing, you would have to accept the challenge that is coming from someone who RPs to hate your race. This means that either you go OOC, or you die IC. Now you can say that this is a good thing, but to me it simply is griefing.
Originally posted by Icefalcon
Furthermore, we already have an element of racism, if subtle, already implemented. Ojevada, an Enki town.
Indeed, I\'m absolutely not fond of this.
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Originally posted by Seytra
It would, because if you are RPing, you would have to accept the challenge that is coming from someone who RPs to hate your race. This means that either you go OOC, or you die IC. Now you can say that this is a good thing, but to me it simply is griefing.
You don\'t have to accept a challenge IC. And if I did, I wouldn\'t die...
I do see what you are saying, but it could be turned around. Instead of all these PKers challenging all Yliaki, they narrow their hunt down to only one race, so they challenge only 8% of what they used to. :)
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so are you saying that it is racist for a certain group of...people?....binding together into a society with others like them is racist?
...i didnt know the entirety of the continent of africa was racist... :rolleyes:
anyways thats my two trias...
regards
-Tarach
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@ Icefalcon: You would under normal circumastances, because it\'s one of the defining properties of racists that they\'ll pick on lone people and corner them so that they can\'t get away. Therefore, declining the challenge would be bad RP. And even if you would win, how about the newbies who just started out? Or your newly created char?
I agree that they would be limiting their options this way, but they would add \"justification\" to them, and therefore would be able to do it without facing punishment.
Originally posted by Tarachnul
so are you saying that it is racist for a certain group of...people?....binding together into a society with others like them is racist?
...i didnt know the entirety of the continent of africa was racist... :rolleyes:
anyways thats my two trias...
The difference is, though, that africa was populated before travelling was as it is today, whereas Ojaveda is just a little walk from Hydlaa, which means that there is no geographical reason for separation, as everyone would have equal opportunity to get there, from the time of the first settler, at which Hydlaa would have already been populated by quite a few Yliaki.
This means that the separation cannot have any reasons other than wanting to separate themselves.
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Originally posted by Tarachnul
so are you saying that it is racist for a certain group of...people?....binding together into a society with others like them is racist?
...i didnt know the entirety of the continent of africa was racist... :rolleyes:
Technically yes. Anything that is done in specific regards to race, and solely due to race (as opposed to, say, medical factors common TO that race), is racist, whether it\'s benevolent or horrific.
Most racism is actively bigoted, but its not a required thing.
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so then since klyros can breathe underwater and ylians(for example) cant as it being a physical difference it isnt racist for them to form a society composed entirely of klyros underwater....yet if the ylians were to do so on the surface it would?
i get where your coming from but i just dont think i quite agree...
regards
-Tarach
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It would not be racist due to it being wholly on medical reasons. If they wouldn\'t let in someone who had some sort of waterbreathing magical device, however, then it becomes racist.
Think of it this way: If a hyper-tall Blue tribe would only let in hyper-tall people, and the Red tribe was all short people, it wouldn\'t be racist IF, should, on a fluke, a Red tribe member be tall enough to join, they would happily let them in, and similarly, a Blue person being less than tall enough, would be kicked out of the tribe.
If there was a purely social reason for this, it would be some other sort of bigotry, but if it was a survival thing, than it would just be incidental.
If only tall people can survive in the Blue territory, it\'s not their bloody fault (unless, of course, they moved there solely to get away from short people).
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How bout racismt is allowed if there is a good rp reason about it. And a reminder this is aboput the guilds, not seperate players.
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Originally posted by Altharion
:tup: for racism
Oh great, this is what I wana see...a bit or racism to make PS even more ?realistic?, not everything has to be realistic you know :rolleyes:
I mean common guys this can get seriously stupid in one sense as newbs wont have a clue if they are hated or not and then be pushed around and all that X(
Don?t even know why a person would bring up a topic up like this one...there?s already enough racism in the world today and I don?t wana see it in a game...in any form(apart from obviously good vs. evil ;) )
Brings bad ideas into peoples heads so...:tdown:
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there is also enough violence and animal abuse in the world but we still go around killing poor rats just to rip the skin off them ..and kill gobble just for the thrill of it (or the experience)
this thread got sidetracked...it was about racial exclusive guilds...guilds which only accept a certain race..not guilds that go around killing other races....there is a difference between those two.
elf and dwarf only guild were always a part of RPG worlds...it would be stupid to start banding them.
I say let the game develop....see how it goes...allow characters that hate other races or guild that do that....if some guild doesn\'t rp that part well... i.e they becom griefers.... guess what????? that\'s where GMs come in...they kick them out...ta dah.... problem solved....
i mean excluding all the negativity from the game and the Planeshift will become MMORPG...Merry Men On-line Role Playing Game
you know what\'s the best computer rpg ever....fallout...why? cause it was realistic in every sense(well..socially)... i really felt like i was in futuristic world.....you had the high and mighty vault dwellers, needlessly seggregated ghouls...
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Originally posted by Mondo
Originally posted by Altharion
:tup: for racism
Oh great, this is what I wana see...a bit or racism to make PS even more ?realistic?, not everything has to be realistic you know :rolleyes:
I mean common guys this can get seriously stupid in one sense as newbs wont have a clue if they are hated or not and then be pushed around and all that X(
Don?t even know why a person would bring up a topic up like this one...there?s already enough racism in the world today and I don?t wana see it in a game...in any form(apart from obviously good vs. evil ;) )
Brings bad ideas into peoples heads so...:tdown:
This is the same argument behind \"Bad music makes you a bad person\" And I have no respect for it. It makes no sense whatsoever, seeing as violence has been a part of the psyche before music was such and integral part of our society.
Anyways my point is that many people already use in game \"racism\" against other races, and it remains full hearted and almost comical. I doubt it will ever escalate to people using racism as a bitter excuse to make everyone else feel bad. I for example use many examples of discrimination already like \"Wench\" and \"Commoner\" or \"Peasant\" and sometimes \"unpure\" or make some comment about their dirty blood. I doubt it makes me a bad person, and I rarely have pangs of murder :P
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Originally posted by Cyberchu
From http://www.planeshift.it/setting_races.html
The city of Yliakum is a melting pot of races with different culture and origin, mixed and integrated by living together over the centuries. Racial suspicion and hostility are completely unknown, given that the greater part of people belonging to one race is normally married to someone of another race.
Just my two tria
Racism does not equal racial hostility:
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
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People are going to do it ANYWAY. It\'s just part of RP. Some people like to play elitist scumbags in one way or another (I do quite often, in fact). So long as the hostilities remain IC, instead of OOC, its fine.
We\'re not playing candy land, after all (not that candy land isn\'t all white... blonde... blue eyed... candy people aside... only villain is a bad French stereotype... ...).
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
People are going to do it ANYWAY. It\'s just part of RP.
If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\". Therefore, if anyone \"RP\"s a racist, they either need an extremely good reason why their char is like that, and I don\'t see a lot of options there, or, as I said already, they\'re bad RPers.
Originally posted by Incenjucar
Some people like to play elitist scumbags in one way or another (I do quite often, in fact). So long as the hostilities remain IC, instead of OOC, its fine.
As RL proves everyday, there are plenty of other ways to abuse and mistreat people. Racism is just one of them.
Originally posted by Incenjucar
We\'re not playing candy land, after all (not that candy land isn\'t all white... blonde... blue eyed... candy people aside... only villain is a bad French stereotype... ...).
Yeah, and I\'ve said already that I don\'t think we do. Channel your hate into hating Yliaki from another city or something, that\'ll be more according to the setting. One option is to be jealous because the upper two levels are the only ones that can be farmed well, so just pretend you\'re from the lower levels and want a share of that land off the \"monopolists\", even if their prices are fair (since this hardly matters in jealousy).
Originally posted by Kixie
I for example use many examples of discrimination already like \"Wench\" and \"Commoner\" or \"Peasant\" and sometimes \"unpure\" or make some comment about their dirty blood.
\"Dirty\" / \"pure\" blood? How can anyone have \"pure blood\" except for a Kran?
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Okay, so what about Felines Lair?
It\'s enki only, as the name would imply but it\'s not out of superiority or hostility.
The story goes there was an ordinary Enkidukai clan who lived a long time ago. The village was destroyed and the survivors escaped to here. Deep in the psyche of Enki is a need to be part of a clan, and the loss of cultural identity was damaging to the warriors. When the cut and dye of the fur no longer held significance, as none here had ever heard of the Black Marsh Enkidukai, depression replaced all zest for life. Many wandered off into the labyrinths and never returned, some denied their history and joined other clans, some became drunkards and wastrels. One wandered this new world and was saddened that she did not have a place, despite the friendliness of the Dermorians that had found her and her tattered clan, and taken them in.
While travelling, the loner was attacked by brigands, and was saved by another enki, similarily without clan. They became companions. From this bond of friendship came the idea that perhaps they could form a new clan, that kept the histories and traditions of ann who join. A place to remember.
So it was done. Felines Lair became one of the few Enkidukai clans in Yliakum. Not because Enkidukai were superior to any other race, nor that any other race were inferior to us. Simply a place to remember. Something that was deeply ingrained into the Enkidukai psyche; a need for a clan to belong to. The way we cut our fur, the dye and paint identify us to eachother and to the world as Enkidukai.
The concept that one would despise a race is foreign to myself and many members. But do the stonebreakers not have underground caverns, crafted with their own hands? They need hard earth above them and depths to go, to think, to be. Kran have their beautiful crystal chambers. Each have their own. We all have a need to express who we are, and Enkidukai need to have an identity. Felines Lair has become that identity to many displaced travellers, and Talad willing it will always be.
So are we a racist guild?
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On a side note fanatic religious guilds following Laanx or Talad would be a nice addition. People trying to convert others to teachings in the public square, plotting against the opposing religion, creating false wonders and texts and all that.
Racist guilds should be possible though as long as those are based on PS races and not something moronic like the Deutsch guild, European guild or whatever.
Of course members should restrain from harassing others but it all would lead to more political interesting developments where good and evil may not be to clear.
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If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\".
First, it doesn\'t say \"no racism\". Read what I posted before.
Second, my Clawhand char (enkidukai) used to be quite suspicious against Ylians. Setting might say it is bad for rp. But I could quote part of Yliakum history, which would prove it wrong.
Simple assumption would be that the \"racism\" bit in races\' setting is over-generalised.
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Originally posted by Draklar
If they do, it\'s bad RP. Good RP needs to stick to the setting, and the setting says: \"no racism\".
First, it doesn\'t say \"no racism\". Read what I posted before.
So you say that all Yliaki, or at least the vast majority, is happily married to othere who they consider inferior, or that this at least is possible?
Originally posted by Draklar
Second, my Clawhand char (enkidukai) used to be quite suspicious against Ylians. Setting might say it is bad for rp. But I could quote part of Yliakum history, which would prove it wrong.
Then by all means, please do so. I\'m forced to do some guesswork here, so I\'m guessing that you\'re referring to the farming problem.
From the history page
The first two levels of Yliakum - the only ones where it was possible to farm - were worked more intensely. On the first level, the stolid Ylians claimed the absolute ownership of the ground that they were farming, refusing to share with other races. They built fences and walls, and began to look at books about armies and armed defense. The Enkidukai that lived in the same area were driven away and this was considered an intrusion in their freedom. The tension between the two races increased, and some of them clashed, but Talad was able to control their anger and to bring back the stability.
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page. It looks to me as if it was meant to be \"ages ago\" (which is supported by the fact that by that time, not even all of Yliakum had been colonised, which means that it\'s been really, really long ago), although it comes accross as somewhat recent, especially because it is menationed so close to the end of the history.
Originally posted by Draklar
Simple assumption would be that the \"racism\" bit in races\' setting is over-generalised.
Or that the incident indeed was thousands of years ago, and that actually nobody knows about it anymore, except historians who wonder how this might have been possible. ;)
@ Ionas: Indeed I\'m missing fanatical Laanx or Talad sects as well, as the setting literally begs for them.
@ Ayshe: I don\'t know. There is a difference between clans and race, but as has been stated, it would be strange for a clan to not allow other races in if they\'d qualify except for race. I\'m quite wary of groups that are aiming to \"preserve the traditions and ways of XYZ\" by excluding all other races. Why would it be bad for other races to embrace the ways and tradition of XYZ? Exactly it wouldn\'t, unless you believe that others practicing those would be sacrilege, as they\'re not worthy of doing so, which is racism, since you thereby imply that your race is superior.
Don\'t get me wrong: you may well require that every clan member does certain things, even if these are very hard to do for members of other races, if these are part of tradition, and would be required even if there would be no other race. You may, however, not require these things to get rid of said other races.
I see nothing in the background of Felines Layer that would rule out other races. Tribes do take in members of other tribes, as long as these mambers then belong to only one tribe (except it\'s a\"honour membership\" given in response to some exceptional deed) and accept anything and everything, benefits and duties, that comes with the membership. Entering a tribe is hard, and the person must do something to prove themselves worthy, but it mustn\'t be made easier for members of race XYZ. It must, however, also not be made easier for members of other races.
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Originally posted by Seytra
I see nothing in the background of Felines Layer that would rule out other races.
Don\'t overlook the psychology issue. There are no \"half caste\" peoples in Planeshift, all children are born as either the same race as their mother or father. Racial tension is fairly uncommon as most peoples grew up with mixed parents and siblings.
But each race has their own, predetermined psyche that is as inherent as their outward appearance.
\"The Enkidukai race maintains its wild nature. They live in packs controlled by the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat. Each pack has a typical and easily recognizable look, mostly because of their habit in cutting or coloring fur in ritual or traditional ways. \"
All of the enkidukai in the Lair have a need to be part of a clan. This is not all that common in the city, but it was very common in the lands from which they all came. No other peoples that I have come across so far have expressed a desire to cut and dye their fur (or hair) and get tribal markings. This isn\'t a gang of enki, but an outlet for those who need to have a cultural identity in keeping with some traditions of Enkidukai. There are many guilds, and all serve a purpouse.
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seytra....you\'re just wrong!
and i have nothing more to say.
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Honestly, it\'ll make more sense if such happens due to -religion-.
Klyros, for instance, when met by the DEITY ITSELF, snubbed Laanx as a -race-.
(Klyros in general seem to be very race-oriented anyways...)
Other races would bend over backwards for it without so much as a please.
The racial issues will be more incidental than anything.
Now, as for the matter of breeding... that\'s wholly confusing.
How the heck an elf makes babies with a rock... brrr
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Originally posted by Incenjucar
Now, as for the matter of breeding... that\'s wholly confusing.
How the heck an elf makes babies with a rock... brrr
Kran are the exception to the rule, Kran reproduction is something of a mystery, and it is apparently not possible with other races.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?
Very good Dracklar even in a world like Planrshift where racial tension is at a minimum it would only take a few fanatics to cause major raceial problems; even turning whole famlies against each other.
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Ah, one more thing; Let\'s assume such situation:
Young dwarf loses his whole family in a diaboli rogue attack. Now once he grows up, won\'t he treat with mistrust kin of those who killed his family?
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Seems to me that he would also mistrust the Ynwnns and those who were though of diferent races related to diaboli; includeing other dwarves.
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This may not be the right place to bring this arguement but I am less worried about racist guilds and more worried about the superiority complex some of the older players have. Many are good people and will be excepting of new people but many others are overly critical to new members by flaming them out of the forum and what not. This is the form of racism I worry about.
Edit: It depends on the board I think and what you are doing.
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actually Valbrandr, i haven\'t seen that happening on this forum. Okay maybe some people get a little frustrated when new people post something that has been posted two days ago, besides that i think most people here are ok....and that\'s coming from a newbie...i\'ve been around here for about a month.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Seytra
Frankly, I think this was a stupid thing to put in the history, because it indeed dilutes the statement on the races page.
err... did it occur to you that considering history is a fact, whilst races setting just an assumption, that it might be the other way around?
Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.
As for the dwarf thing: he may, but if he doesn\'t live somewhere so secluded that there are no or almost no Diaboli, he will not actually be thinking that. Instead, he will know that there are just as evil dwarves and whatnot around, because violent crime will be rather common in Yliakum. All depends on how separated people are, and I think they shouldn\'t be very separated.
Originally posted by Kaseijin
seytra....you\'re just wrong!
and i have nothing more to say.
Thanks for your insights. :rolleyes:
@ Incenjucar: yes, that is an interesting thing, much like the Diaboli in effect, but totally different in cause.
@ Ayshe: there may be some who do, but it\'d be few, if any (quite an RP challenge). If it is what you describe, it\'s fine with me.
@ Valbrandr: it\'s basicly the reason why the acronym \"RTFM\" was invented.
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as long as you keep it IC I don?t see a problem... yet dwarves and elves have a natural problem, well that might not count here but some players might want to be like this ingame... I say why stop them? ;)
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Originally posted by Jazeera
as long as you keep it IC I don?t see a problem... yet dwarves and elves have a natural problem, well that might not count here but some players might want to be like this ingame... I say why stop them? ;)
Because it is bad RP: it doesn\'t adhere to the setting.
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it is indeed bad rp, but really what can anyone do to stop it? and if you do keep it to a certain limit... then I don?t see the problem ;)
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Originally posted by Jazeera
it is indeed bad rp, but really what can anyone do to stop it? and if you do keep it to a certain limit... then I don?t see the problem ;)
But how are you going to keep it to a certain limit without enforcing the contrary? If something is highly convenient, as is racism as \"justification\" for violence or conflict, then it will become mainstream, unless it\'s artificially made inconvenient, i.e., by enforcing the opposite. This is especially true if newbies shall be able to learn the setting while playing. They\'ll get a completely wrong impression.
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ok, so, I\'m admitting, i didn\'t read the second page...but this is the same emotion i have had on the first page and kept on the third page...RACISM IS A NO!!!!! i have NEVER luiked the idea, or even considered it, everyone is equal, accept it allready.
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Originally posted by nukemeshi
...everyone is equal, accept it allready.
Wrong. Everyone is not equal. Nilaya, for instance is well liked, well known and is the leader of one of MB\'s greatest guilds. Her prescence and opinon has far more weight than, say, a 3 day new powerleveller.
Perhaps what you meant is that everyone in Planeshift, unlike the real world, is created fairly equal. And that in the digital world we are all helping to create, everyone has equal opportunities.
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Oh come on... There is a difference between common crime and having your whole family slaughtered on your eyes. And frankly, I don\'t see how being forced to live among those who you hate is supposed to heal the damage.
Originally posted by Seytra
Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.
And you talk about bad rp? :P
If something is in Yliakum history, it means it happened.
End of story.
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I don\'t think that racism is bad RP. While the setting does say that all races live in friendship, doesn\'t that mean that racism MAY appear after some time? And your character isn\'t just \"someone\", so it doesn\'t mean he should do everything that all others do. For example, imagine a country where there is no crime. Does it mean that no person is able to commit a crime? No, it means that there is no such thing present, but it doesn\'t mean that this isn\'t possible at all.
My opinion is - as long as it is IC, it fits well. It would be far more interesting to have characters behave how you want them to behave. Of course, racism and sexism should be regulated so that it\'s reasonable - no racial wars, for example (though that would be just OK IMHO).
And I\'m not a racist in real life ;). But I think that too much regulation will make the game extremely dull, like most other MMORPGs in existence. What do you want - a realistic world or a place to slaughter mobs and get experience?
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the bit where it says it says there\'s no racism in Yliakum is generlization... it merely suggests that there is no race that is considered as supperior or inferrior by the general public, that legally every race is treated the same. It doesn\'t mean that not even one citizen of Yliakum feels any hatred towards any race.
It\'s like saying that there is no war in Yliakum it does not mean that no one ever fights, or that no ever gets attacked.
read between the lines....
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Well I would like to know how anyone would stop racism? and well if there should become a cult like KKK against let?s say Krans then it?s RP isn?t it? and isn?t planeshift about RP? racism is a part of life face it... it is everywhere :)
btw. I am not a racist and I do not have problems with any races IC or OOC!
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I find it hard to Believe That there is no racism in Yliakum I play a Kran.
Thr bar nrvrt has anything mor for me to drink than a beer with a jwel in it. There is nothing I would like to eat. And with one simple line i the race discription people feel that the kran saould not be as intelligent as them. Not to mention that we are such aforign creature compaired to the rest of the inhabatants that they could not truly empethise with one of us. Besides that Not being able to reproduce with the other races in the world would create a tight knit community among the kran one that would be tough if not impossabe for others to feel comfortable in.
Not a problem Though. I picked the Kran mainly because it seemed like it would add that exact deminsion one of not fitting in. Maby even a little bit of the underdog... always striving to prove his worth to others in the world.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Oh come on... There is a difference between common crime and having your whole family slaughtered on your eyes. And frankly, I don\'t see how being forced to live among those who you hate is supposed to heal the damage.
Right, so let\'s assume that this person, who has been living with those of the same race that killed his family all the time until the event happened, probably being friends to some of them, now actually thinks \"yeah, they must all be like that!\".
So now the question is: how many people share his fate? Is it actually possible for, say, 1000 Ylians to share that fate? How many of those marauding bands would that take, and if they indeed were that strong, wouldn\'t they be known very well, i.e., official?
This means that it cannot be a usual backstory of more than, say, 10 PCs, because otherwise it\'d need to have a resemblance ingame that is way more defined than ten players telling ghost stories.
However, this it the exact kind of makeshift backstory that is designed for the sole reason of explaining whyt the char hates race XYZ. seeing the popularity of that general idea is giving me the creeps, and, frankly, I begin to see why our world is so screwed up.
Anyway, it would mean that there would be thousands of race XYZ slaughtering hundreds of thousands of race ABC, always leaving just one infant to witness it all. This would mean that race ABC would be extinct very quickly, and it would also mean that race XYZ, or at least a major part of it, is particularly violent and only towards race ABC, which is really insane.
Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Seytra
Eh? No, it didn\'t occur to me, because basicly both are completely made up. It might just as well have been put into history that at some instance, all dwarves decided that they need to be able to swim, or that all Nolthrir colored themselves blue.
And you talk about bad rp? :P
If something is in Yliakum history, it means it happened.
End of story.
Obviously I have not expressed myself well.
From an IC perspective, the history is of course a fact. However, I was talking OOC, and therefore the history is nothing more than a text on a website, made up by some people. That means that it could contain anything. Therefore, it is exactly the same as the races setting, i.e. made up. Neither are \"facts\", and both are equally official and valid to me, because both are OOC. They are parts of the same, just like chapters of a book.
Originally posted by Abelard
And I\'m not a racist in real life ;). But I think that too much regulation will make the game extremely dull, like most other MMORPGs in existence. What do you want - a realistic world or a place to slaughter mobs and get experience?
I want neither a fully realistic world, nor the usual hack\'n slash. Agreed, racism can be used to draw good RP, but it is one of these things that require extremely experienced RPers, which are rare. The majority will be unexperienced, and most of them will not be able to handle it properly. That\'d be not a problem in SP games, or in small groups, but it is in a MMORPG.
There are other, less dangeroud things that can be added to spice up RP, and I hope that these will be there soon. People are already fighting to death for no reason at all, so what will happen if racism would be an official excuse for PK?
@ Socrates Demise: You do realise that the lack of race-specific food is due to the highly incomplete nature of PS, no?
As for the mental abilities of Kran: as has been pointed out, the Enkis are, in fact, less intelligent than the Kran. Therefore, the same sentence should be added to the Enki description page as well. Furthermore, seeing that many races are quite close to the 40 INT, it doesn\'t seem to be a big difference anyway, and the more it is cited, the more it feels way overhyped.
Edited for language.
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From an IC perspective, the history is of course a fact. However, I was talking OOC,
I am pretty sure we\'re talking about IC racism... so stick with thinking as characters would :rolleyes:
Ok, this is getting boring.They have a strong pride that sometimes develops into feuds with other clans or other races. They tend to be suspicious and quarrelsome towards other races that are taller than they are.
Happy now? Good. Let\'s get some beer.