PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Tasuja on February 22, 2005, 05:13:56 pm
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Hi people i had this idea sorry if it sounds stupid.Well here goes.on my trip to ojaveda i had this weird idea we could farm in the game like grow fruit veg maybe falka.Since i hear devs saying sumthing about puting houses in the game for us to buy then couldnt we also buy are own land to grow food plants if they put that family development in who\'s idea was from pariah88 we would have to feed are familys we could also have skill bar at lets say lvl 1 you can grow simple things like carrots,turnips so on then lvl 3 we can start to grow bigger things like trees like apple trees i know cherppows apples would come in handy or orange trees bananas trees grape trees so on maybe lvl 5 would be the highest lvl and you could maybe turn the grapes into home made wine and sell it on.I know sum people arent into fighting or mining maybe there a growing type of people who like the farming life.Maybe there would be a shop to get your seeds and you could buy a book on how to grow things in the game like step bye step.And in the shop you would have all the equipment to start growing things like a watering can shovel sickle and trimmers. I know this is asking alot put it was just an idea if you dont like it i understand just my idea. please post your ideas on this forum if u like my idea please tell me if u dont please tell me .thanks tasuja
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Have you seen the amount of money a farmer makes in this game?
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There is farming in this game? ...
/me turns into a farmer
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Well I got a similar idea and when I used the search button *three cheers for me :P * I found this thread so here goes ...
I think farming could be implemented relatively easy. It would be similar to mining at first. There would be patches of fertile land around Yliakum where farmers could farm. Just like mining areas for the miners.
Farmers would need some farming skill of course. This skill lets you extract seeds from various things like apples, mushrooms, ... Then you can go plant those seeds at the fertile spots and they will spawn plants that can be harvested. Now the ammount of farming skill determines how many seeds you can extract. With a skill of 1 you would be very unsuccesful and maybe get one seed out of 10 apples. With a skill of 20 you could get 3 seeds out of every apple.
Another thing influenced by your farming skill is the rate at which your plants grow, but this to a smaller extent. To a larger extent it would influence the size of the plants and how much food items you could harvest off them.
Farming on \'public land\' or in other words out in nature is of course only possible when you can find a piece of land that isn\'t being farmed on by someone else. Through a simple technique all Yliakean farmers know, namely distributing a pulverized protection glyph along with their seeds, once a patch has been sown it is marked to that farmer and no other farmers can reap the profits or use that patch until it is harvested and cleared.
Another somewhat different approach would be to let farmers acquire their own land. They could rent it or buy it from landowning NPC\'s or when housing is implemented create a farm with a patch of fertile farmland with it. The rest would stay the same only you \'d need to buy land instead of using it out in the wilds. The rest would stay the same as above. You \'d have a piece of land reserved for your use only though even when it isn\'t being cultivated.
Farming would become intensive work to be profitable but I think it shouldn\'t last as long as it does in real life to grow something. I \'d say one real life day at the most. The profit should be related to the effort put into your crops and of course your farming skill as well as simple demand and offer. If there are a lot of apple farmers it \'ll get more interesting to grow some mushrooms perhaps.
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heh, probably not profitable and you can only have a farm on the upper levels AFAIK... but of course it is always nice to have more \"jobs\" ingame :D
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Well if you can get seeds out of things you might have to pay a few trias for and can get back the same things say 5 to 50 fold I \'d say it would at least be somewhat profitable. Not much though no but it could be a nice hobby or cover for any other activities you might have planned ;)
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Originally posted by Kiramon
heh, probably not profitable and you can only have a farm on the upper levels AFAIK...
Which is exactly why it will be profitable... limited farmable land=limited resources. Limited resources=high prices. High prices=lots of profit.
The only real crisis in Yliakum was due to farming issues, and this IMO shows how important farming is. Seaweed, fish and hunting won\'t suffice to sustain the population.
There is just the problem with farming: space would be limited on the server as well, so there must be some way to free unused fields after some time, because otherwise one could sew all possible places and not harvest them, thereby preventing everyone else from ever being able to farm.
I like the idea, though.
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yes, and fishing seems a possibility to me to be something that could happen soon. I\'ll run through the logistics of it:
The devs build a little pond somewhere in the wilderness
You go to the pond, equip a pole and type the command /fish
You also need a skill of 1 to fish, more skill will increase catch frequency, just like mining
Then, when a fish is caught, a carp spawns on the shore that only that fisher can loot
Finally, you sell the fish =)
It would be just a fun roleplaying activity that doesn\'t involve lots of killing.
Xirius
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Originally posted by Seytra
There is just the problem with farming: space would be limited on the server as well, so there must be some way to free unused fields after some time, because otherwise one could sew all possible places and not harvest them, thereby preventing everyone else from ever being able to farm.
I like the idea, though.
Well that is easily fixed by adding a decay function to the crops. Once they become harvestable they \'ll remain so for a limited time and then decay, thus clearing up the land for new farmwork.
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Originally posted by Zan
Well that is easily fixed by adding a decay function to the crops. Once they become harvestable they \'ll remain so for a limited time and then decay, thus clearing up the land for new farmwork.
Aye, though this immediately poses the problem of online time. Obviously, the stuff must stay there for some RL days, especially if it takes RL days to grow (some people can be online only at weekends, possibly even one day per week only), but not for RL weeks.
However, removal of the invisible walls would yield a lot of empty space that could be put to farming use so that crops could maybe stay for an RL week, though this still seems very very long to me. (I know that there are good reasons to have these areas not causally accessible, but considering the transparency issues they\'re not terribly bad. ;) )
I think growing should at most take 1-2 RL hours, to give the option to people with limited time. That way, one can ensure that there is no real need for extreme preservation periods, so that the decay can occur within 1-2 RL days. The higher frequency of harvesting would obviously reduce the value of each harvest, which means that the loss of a decay is less severe, and also keep the farmer occupied. After all, it wouldn\'t be much fun to spend ten minutes sewing and then wait one entire day for it to grow. Real farmers are very busy people AFAIK. :)
As for the fishing, this could indeed work by this simple system. The fish coulkd even be spawned into your inventory just like the ore.
I\'d love to have swimming ingame, I\'d probably be fishing sea-weed, or rather, enjoy underwater landscapes. :D
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i think if they added \"mage stones\" and give them some unique twist to them (like increased stats in certain magics to just plain adding them to items or slots with stats on them of course, ect.)
maybe someone like an enchanter can makem, and mage wood for making staves, wands, ect. to increase magics as well
theres alot of things that could be thought up, the problem is time :( if you notice it already takes a long time to update the game, but the good thing is it\'s all worth it
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Well I did say it shouldn\'t take as long as in reality and one RL day would be the absolute maximum but you are right that one hour is probably much better. Farmers aren\'t always that busy though, except the ones with huge acres of land to grow that is. To make farming more realistic we could add some more actions besides just sowing and harvesting, like irrigation, fertilizing the soil, ... but then farming would become pretty complex. Not that I mind it.
The fishing idea is also a very good one and should indeed be easy to create. But we would need actual water first, something I haven\'t seen anywhere yet and if we do get water I have to join Seytra and insist on allowing us to swim in it. Especially since I \'m Nolthrir. :P
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*Sigh* well at least ya\'ll tried :P
Ok Farming: The Entire World Could/Would/Should have a underlying tile system (Throwback to harvest moon) and it even works in a 3D eviroment with elevation *IE there could be hills on a plot of land.. but also you could get a shovel and lower a tile.. lowering the hill one tile at a time until you get a flat field)
Now farming just being the harvesting of patches of fruit... I can only forgive that right as the farming skill is implemented and the exp system needs the be tested and all the kinks worked out... but to completely explain i\'ll need some backstory on my idea
Ok the entire world should be somewhat completely editable *somewhat* and I\'ll explain;
Land like towns and cities shouldn\'t be changed of course, but outside their city limits it should be stated tile system.. if i want to plant apple seeds outside of town on some tiles for people to use fine (tiles data goes from EMPTY_GRASS to APPLE_SEEDLING_GRASS then after a few days YOUNG_APPLE_GRASS then in a few more days APPLE_TREE and a week after that APPLE_RIPE_GRASS and can be picked going back to data APPLE_TREE_GRASS)
GRASS denotes the what terrain the plant sits on could be EMPTY_DIRT or APPLE_TREE_DIRT saying the underlying tile skin is dirt
or something*leading to the possible RP rise of a \"jonny appleseed\" or other such character*
Or cut down that blasted tree next to the path corner that blocks the view then fine... just make sure to dig up the stump so it doesnt grow back *the tree exists on a tile.. just use an axe on it... then it changes the tiles data to TREE_STUMP or whatnot*
When you think of it the tile systen answers everything from lumberjacking *cut down trees wait from them to regrow... cut to many and maybe the hydlaa ecological society will get pissed and pressure sanctions in the government to start a tree replanting or to make lumberjacks plant 1-2 trees for every one cut down like in life*
Alchemy *finding that coveted herb patch tile.. trying to get some seeds from it to plant elsewhere*
So on and so forth
It also takes some pressure off devs when you think about it *Why should devs have make forests? or towns? just make the tile data for trees and a builders skill with walls and corners at first... we can do that ourselves ;) also SOO MUCH RP!!! \"We\'re gonna start a town in the new territory!\" it may fail.. it may not.. who knows? :D\" or \"Im gonna make a trail trough such and such forest! Who wants to help?\" i shudder with excitement at all the possibilities
It would also make terrain dev much more simpler (Devs could just have a util to let them fill tiles with data and a raise lower terrain option.. they could throw together a new area in a few hours :-O )
Fishing: Fish should go straight to inventoryof course..
Now a few water tiles could form a pond *this may be stretch but why not have the fish caught as live? you could kill , skin, cook and eat them.. or drop thier \"live\" forms into a body of water you dug up to \"stock\" it if you have a few live fish and also if a pond is too fished then it will go empty and need to be restocked*
Several Water tiles would be needed but put a fish in it and i think it should act like a \"monster\" moving about in those tiles... eating *going to either player left bait near a nice hook to lure them ;) or just into the weeds* Just swimming and ever now and again if thier are a few fishes they will \"mate\" *we wouldnt see it sicko.. a new fish would just appear* and make a new fish *keeping it stocked* and after there are so many fish in so many tiles they they would stop breeding *also if not enough \"food weed\" tiles they will stop.. also allowing you to plant seaweed or something to increase the fish in a pond
If it gets near your bait it may bite.. but if it just ate then most likely not... but throw some bait out near your net hook to attract hungry fish who will eat whats in front of them.. maybe your hook even
I may have to explain more if ya\'ll dont understand and for clarities sake... but virus scan is auto-starting and i need to let it run :-/
*do devs read this stuff? this idea came about after many hours *weeks* of thinking how to have a fully moldable 3D enviroment.. i think its quite good myself and would own if implemented with more RP options then humanly forseeable.. but then of course i would :rolleyes: *
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You are talking about a completely dynamic extensive 3D world here plus giving it a dynamic flora system.
While I would love to have a game as realistic as you \'re talking about I \'m not sure if it \'s achievable.
In my eyes such a world along with the detail and ectensiveness of what they have planned for planeshift would require insane things from the game engine and servers. Especially when individuals can go change the shape of the land.
I don\'t know .. we \'ll have to get a dev in here to answer the possibility of those ideas. But I think we better hope on having some patches we can cultivate instead of an entire moldable environment.
Don\'t get me wrong though .. I would worship the realisation of what you described here but one has to stay reasonable, you know.
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EDIT: oh yes, yes i am talking about that :) as for its acheiveability shortly *about a year after i thought of it* this came out http://www.rpgwo.com though a far cray from what im talking about it kinda proves what im saying.. its totaly player editable with some of my things *not many... i had no hand in its making* and proves some of my concepts (its run totaly prively owned small servers but it can store huge worlds... so i KNOW it takes hardly anything out of a server.. client seems to work well too)
Relize it only takes a few bytes to store data for a tile (basicaly its just its elevation # and tile data and tile \"floor\" IE: GRASS or DIRT , its only about 1KB per tile).. Ive done my research.. it also makes things less cluttered by only having to make a few modles.. and once a terrain editor like in Age of Empires or whatnot is made Devs can make terrain in a snap (they have to make each model and stage of model *for instence full tree, young tree, tree with fruit as stated above*.. but once made they can be dragged and dropped into place)
As for engine its very simple... even less complex then the way things are done now i would dare say? (the tiles clean things up more then you can imagine) It just reads a tile and loads its models.. better then keeping a big file with the whole areas terrain in one file *leading to that load time in between regions* instead it could just load say.. 10-20 tiles in each direction as you move much better then the whole region at once thing (could even be no load times? depends.. it seems easy to me but loading each tile at a time could take more out of a server then i think)
That last paragraph is just my guess how things work versus the way i think tiles would work.. im no expert on programming by far
And glad you like it this game design (i took this whole tile thing from \"my own mmo\" that exists solely in my mind and on scattered paper) has been my lifes work.. im glad to lend peices of it where its applicable :D
EDIT: See? I can be smart :rolleyes: its just the more complex the mind the more simple it has to act to compensate XD
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The problem would not be server resources and also not engine complexity. The server already has to store the entire map, so it does not matter whether it is modified by players or not. The engine will be more complex, sure, but not insanely.
No, the real problem with that are the clients and the connection to them. Basically, such a tile system would require the entire map to be re-downloaded by the client, not only at every startup, but also each time the tile comes into view, because it might have changed in the meantime! So while this is only a little bit of data, perhaps only three 32 bit numbers, this will add up. Additionally, the client computer would have to recalculate the entire visible map area while moving, including elevations and textures, which will place a great load on the CPU and GPU. It\'s just like when you go to the plaza when it\'s crowded, or when a lot of items have been dropped on the ground: position and ID data has to be transferred to the client, the textures / models have to be loaded and the items have to be rendered. This creates jaggy movement and lag spikes even for broadband users with SOTA comps. Once the things have been processed, the lag vanishes, but in the case of having to reshape terrain that would be a constant problem.
This is the reason why the maps are stored on the client at all.
That said, it might be possible to have sophisticated checksumming and notification algorithms in place.
It might work if:
- the tiles are large, at least the size of four average houses
- the change of tiles, due to player interaction and plant growth, is still infrequent, like one tile per visible area every hour
- elevation changes are even less frequent, so that the only thing that changes within a week are textures
- the checksumming algorithms provide means to quickly \"spot\" all differences (every client might have a dramatically different map, depending on when they last went there!) and transfer the changed information only.
This might be augmented and the impact lessened if there was a special updater for the maps only. This updater could be run prior to entering the game, and it would update all maps to the state of the server\'s maps. This way, after having not logged on for years will make for one insanely big update, but not for continous lag during playing.
This way, the \"grass-growing server\" (autonomously changing environment, like forests growing, deserts forming, etc.) could even be implemented.
However, even with all of these optimisations in place, it seems that the only way to do it would be requiring broadband access, which is not yet standard. :(
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First off, this sort of thing is the dream massively-multilayer online environment. No doubt it would be hard to implement, but it is definitely possible.
Updating tile changes wouldn\'t be as server intensive as is seems. The server already has to update the client with item, monster, player, and NPC, locations. Terrain changes, in most areas, wouldn\'t be that frequent. The way I see it, there are two ways to handle this:
1) Simple way: There is a \"base\" terrain which is stored in the maps on the client side. All base tiles contain ground type (grass, dirt, stone, water, road, etc.) but no objects (individual trees, bushes, boulders, buildings, etc.). Thus, we would have a \"blank\" map with all the elevations, main features, and such set. Each tile would contain object info including its name, type, and age. For simplicity, only one object per tile, or one type of small object with a quantifying attribute. (ex. 6 rat eyes) The client would load all of the region\'s tiles on load, and cache them for further reference. Only tiles that change will be loaded in the future. Thus a forest will only need to be fully loaded once, and then only individual modifications would need a reload. The tile updates wouldn\'t really be more complicated than what exists for items, etc. now, just more complex and widespread.
2) Fancy way: All tiles also contain ground type and elevation. These properties could be modified by players, and as a result would add an insane level of complexity. (Would be cool though...) This scenario would require a rolling load, in that you would load visible tiles as you are coming into range of them. Obviously, this would suck up more server load, but it can be done.
A few other points:
* I would prefer hexagonal tiles, over square. Square tiles can drastically limit construction freedoms.
* The \"Nature system\" would be the one of the biggest server-side processing hits. You would need a system to monitor tiles based on type and age to grow/decompose everything. (dropped animal parts need to decompose, plants need to grow, etc.)
* The other big hit would be from checking for tile updates. (not necessarily downloading them) This wouldn\'t really be that bad. The server would just have to have a list of recently updated tiles in each region which the clients would just have to keep downloading. (Checking each tile individually would be insane.) To minimize bandwidth use on the server, each region\'s list would be broken up into 3 or so chunks. One for new changes (last hour), one for recent changes (last 3 hours), one for all changes. The client would only download the one needed. Changes to the current region would be monitored by the client continuously.
* Items should have an additional attribute to tell if it is on/in/under the tile. (surface, partially buried, underground) This would also make mining a much simpler system. The nature system would just randomly move the minerals/ores around in certain regions under the surface.
* The other big choice that affects performance would be tile size. The best size would be about a square meter, but we would probably need a slightly bigger one to make things easier.
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Yeah saving tiles isnt that hard.. in the cited source RPGWO the tiles are very \"small\" compared to what you are saying *as big as the player* and why does it have to moniter and check the tiles o.O? That confuses me.. why not when somebody does an action to a tile does it just not send a message to the server of the alteration? *IE: i use axe on tree... instead of every five minutes the server checks all tiles to see for change adn in five minutes THEN i see \"my\" tree cut down\": It just sends a message to change the model from TREE to TREE_STUMP as i cut it? the client sends the info to the server.. maybe a slight bit client intensive but saves on servers*
Hmmm i guess the \"nature system\" might be server intensive.. but maybe not.. how about this? The game no doubt will have or has a clock on it.. when a tree is planted at clock time 1:50:12AM and the tree has a data set to go from SEEDLING to YOUNG_TREE in say... 10-12 hours (dont want forests springing up over night that would be server intensive) then the tile just contains the data to change the model at internal clock time 1:50:12PM or you can make speed go at +25% by watering it hastening the time to growth and another +25% if you dump fertilizer on it (this wear off naturaly) *sends a lil ping or something maybe could work.. i\'ll keep thinking on it*
Yes i love the mining idea.. it would have to wait a long time but the data could have certian ores \"growing\" in certian areas in radomly sized \"lodes\" and also for every few tiles \"dug out\" you would need to have a carpenter or blacksmtith make a support (make a real community mining operation :D ) to hold the roof up.. lest one minute your mining and the next you are opening your eyes in the death realm ;)
And yeah i like the underground idea *Buried treasure hunts anybody? or Spy information dropoffs 0.0*
I think thier should be a \"slightly underground\" use shovel on tile to check for treasure and then a \"Underground level\" where you get a shovel and dig a big hole *Premade as per tile guidlines* and then dig in a direction (i better not go to far lest we go off course.. damn it i cant leave details out ;( ) Ok well tunnels one tile wide wouldnt need supports (reading books on tunneling 1 meter wide tunnels support themselves.. at 2+ meters you are risking it and at 4+ basicaly death without support)
Tile size is good at a meter (about 3 feet to my fellow rebelious yanks :P ) and way to \"think outside the box\" *ba-dum-dum* :rolleyes: i just said square becasue it may be easier on the devs.. if not then sweet
Building system here how it REALLY needs to work kinda like the sims... lay a wall or a corner on a tile and tada! build the house from there: ok slight alteration
Put the lumber for the wall on the ground.. then \"use\" hammer on nails then on lumber it will bring a menu of all the \"recipes\" *building syles you have learned.. if you seek training in odjeva then you would lrean the \"recipes\" of that building syle.. in hydlaa you would learn that syles instead* you can use.. build a few tiles worth of wall and you have a house.. then roof it :)
*building should take a high mason or carpentry skill.. so you have to hire a carpenter and/or mason or just live in a twigloo untill you can train it*
As for tile ownership... i think you should be able to buy a tile at a time.. price undetermined (it would need tweaking) but not need to own a tile to use it.. as long as nobody else does.. *if you dont have the money but just want to live off the land.. oh so RP :) * buy a about 20-30 tiles and you got yourself a right proper plot :D
*ahh i am soo sorry but the ideas get flowing..* Ok there needs to be some \"simsy\" bars like \"hunger\" thirst\" \"heat\" and or \"disease\" *so you need a house... if you are a low carp you are fighting for you life in the winter to stay warm in your craptastic hit oh man this would be fun* i also think there should be \"lighting\" *if underground you can see very far unless you have a lantern.. and is there night in PS? if not then i am sad.. night is so great. didnt i see night in MB?*
SideStory: If used this will raise the bar and put planeshift on the map.. the first game EVER to actualy go from \"playing\" the game to being \"In\" the game (and so RP you can smell it miels away)
Let your mind wander for a moment.. say you one day you deside to plant a tree.. you water it you keep it from being destroyed and the it goes from what seems like a stray blade of grass to a tall tree.. for the first time in gaming history you actualy REALLY changed the world.. for honest..
Not Hero #108,865,029 to save the princess [fakeenthusiasm]YAY![/fakeenthusiasm] but in fact a person whos mark could[/] be left on the world for YEARS to come
Newbie: Wow thats a great temple complex :O
Oldbie: Yes mister so-an-so designed that and the randomism guild built that about one year ago.. its still in use today
out of ideas.. resume discussion amoungst yourselves
carry on :D
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As I said: the problem is not server load, but bandwidth! What happens when you plant / chop down a tree? Yoh send a message to the server, fine. This is the easy part.
The next thing is that the server sends a message to each and every client that possibly views that place!
Now this doesn\'t seem bad but what if you have a lot of tiles, which you have with the extremely small size of 3m^2?
It\'s the exact same as putting a player per every 3m?2 in the plaza! The server will laugh at that, but the clients that look at it, and have to load the appropriate models, will experience extreme lag. Take this and make the clients MMORPG-like, i.e., 10000 clients, and you got bandwidth requirements for the server that are insane. Likewise, take about 500 tiles in the visible area, and you got a lot of information to the clients, so modem users will be out of luck.
Edit: I\'ve had a look at RPGWO and the reason why they can do this is simple: the clients have a very, very limited range of vision. Additionally, there is no requirement for realtime movement: a delay of 0.5s will most likely be tolerable, unlike in a 3d world where you move by estimating the progress you\'ll make.
Therefore, the amount of data needed to transfer is severely reduced, and also even if the amount is great, the delay is tolerable. Furthermore, the entire visuals and game are simple, which means that the CPU and GPU will have almost no work to do, so that even massive updates can easily be computed without slowing gameplay down.
By contrast, PS needs a wide field of vision to allow actual immersion and illusion of a world, and also to provide overview to the player for orientation. Therefore the amount of data to be transferreed would skyrocket and due to the realtime requirements of movement delays of > ~0.1s aren\'t tolerable (don\'t confuse this with ping times of 0.5s: they are being taken care of by the estimating client. They are known and constant, whereas render / transfer lag are not and thus cannot be adequately estimated in advance). Add to that that even high end computers have a very high CPU utilization and no doubt 100% GPU utilization for PS to run well, and you see that there is no slack left to calculate complex terrain modifications and load complex models all the time.
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As for the simsy bars... PS is not about staying alive! It is about adventuring! Therefore, adding all these tediums of thirst, hunger and disease will only serve to frustrate the player. Yes, PnP RPGs have food and hunting rules, but I know of noone who constantly uses them. The only times when these are actually put to use are in extreme situations that further the plot, i.e., if you\'re travelling through a desert! On all other occasions, food and water is some \"yeah, you have enough food\" thing, unless someone actually wants to RP hunting or cooking.
WEO is a good example for this: it is a survival game, i.e., the objective is staying alive and possibly reproduce. PS is an adventure / RP game, i.e., staying alive is taken for granted unless you get yourself killed; the objective is to interact with others, to solve quests and adventure.
Just imagine the incredible fun of walking through wilderness and getting a disease that kills you... or starve to death. Yes, they can be appealing occasionally, but most of the time, they are IMO only tediums that take away time that I\'d like to spend on the real objectives in PS.
Just as WOE doesn\'t bother with stats (except the \"fighting\" skill), PS doesn\'t need to bother with staying alive.
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Originally posted by Foresteer
Tile size is good at a meter (about 3 feet to my fellow rebelious yanks :P )
I\'m American too. I just can\'t stand the English measurement system... :P
Originally posted by Seytra
As I said: the problem is not server load, but bandwidth! What happens when you plant / chop down a tree? Yoh send a message to the server, fine. This is the easy part. The next thing is that the server sends a message to each and every client that possibly views that place!
Trees won\'t be planted/killed at too high of a rate. (Hopefully... we may need forest guardian spirits or something...) For the simple stuff like plants it wouldn\'t be too big of a deal. Remember, I suggested caching this info. So, only changes would be downloaded. It wouldn\'t be too much more than what is already done with items on the ground now.
Originally posted by Seytra
Likewise, take about 500 tiles in the visible area, and you got a lot of information to the clients, so modem users will be out of luck.
I agree that it would be a headache to update 500 tiles. But only a dozen or less would need to be updated at any one time. Most of a forest, for example, would be \"static\". The trees are adults and won\'t change, so all that info will be cached by the client. So, if I walk into this forest, I\'d only need to get the info on the one or two trees cut down since my last time here. (axes MUST be able to wear out to prevent deforestation) Sending a byte or two out to all the clients (that actually go here) would not be an issue at all.
For a simple system, we don\'t necessarily need tiles. Tiles are only really needed for constructing large things, like buildings. For just natural stuff, we could use the same system that items and whatnot use right now. We\'d just need to add seed items, and re-define trees as items that can be modified.
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Hell Id just be happy with just growing trees for a log time :) id go about planting them and having more fun then can be imagined
And yeah Disease is a little much.. but hunger, thirst and tempurature actualy add something.. Cooks benifit from hunger and thirst and builders dont just build to have a building to look and say \"aint it purdy?\" it actualy will warm/cool you from tempurature extremes...
Plus you can\'t have everybody chatting in the tavern during a blizzard to stay warm if a blizzard is just for looks now can you ;) ?
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Harvest Moon was a lot of fun. I\'d love too see something like that where you have to prepare the field (tilling the earth, getting rid of rocks and stumps, repairing fences), plant, water, weed, and finally harvest and sell your crops. The whole period would perhaps last a week or two and give the player something unusual to do. Instead of other MMORPG\'s where you log in for half an hour to complete a quest or grind a bit, you would be logging in to check out your crops and throw out any weeds. Actually, they should add a lot of Harvest Moon elements (like player owned cows). A small scale dynamic world probably wouldn\'t be too bad (I think), as it would only have to update the client whenever a player enters a farm. I\'d also like to see decorative gardens for smaller houses.
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Yeah, I love Harvest Moon too. But, we don\'t want to turn PlaneShift into an all-out farming game. We just want to add some farming elements. In my opinion, cows is going a bit too far. I think we should be aiming for a dynamic world that gives some simple farming as an option, but not the ability to set up their own full-blown livestock farm. That might be nice, but not in-line with this game.
My goals:
* Dynamic world with free growing/plantable plants/fungi of many kinds
* Plant and grow your own garden with collected seeds
* Bury/dig up items
* Free \"growing\" minerals/ores/gems underground
* Harvesting of materials from the world (wood, stone, mud, etc.)
* Free construction (signs, bridges, buildings, etc.) using various materials
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Well id like a cow (where does the cooks milk for cake comes from?) ARE YOU SAYING YOU HATE CAKE OMZTTYLBBLQ!!?
seriosuly cows would be nice as a monster to be tamed and used.. but on such a low priority that i dont expect any time in seeable on unforseeable future
Also yeah not ALL farming.. but \"in all things you do, do completely\" you would wanna cover all the bases (not right away but eventualy)
harvest moon friends of mineral town!! best portable investment since \"Pokemon Sapphire\" brining much joy on long trips and wait lines :)
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I would not want to see any cows in the game, nor do I think there will be any. It \'s similar to those people who want to see horses to ride or dragons to fight. PS should be original in my eyes so no cows :P
Though I don\'t mind the idea of having livestock if it are unique creatures. I agree with what DaveG said. We don\'t want to make this a farming game, just a roleplaying adventure game where some farming is allowed. There will be tamable creatures avaiable in the future but I hope there won\'t be any massive herds of creatures because I can see things getting a bit chaotic.
So if you want a cow, you should be able to get one cow creature as a pet but no herds of them.
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Thats what i said.. plus im sure there will be a max tamed monster limit based on tame skill.. wanna fill your \"tame slots\" with livestock go ahead :P
And as the thread is about farming though your only gonna hear farming ideas ;)
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Originally posted by Zan
I agree with what DaveG said. We don\'t want to make this a farming game, just a roleplaying adventure game where some farming is allowed.
Perhaps, I suppose it depends on what your goals are. Personally, I think that greater roleplaying would be achieved by allowing the player more options as to how they approach the game. In almost every MMORPG, it is like a level grinding treadmill where everyone has the same goal and you go out and kill or quest to attain that goal. Though there are ways to address this in terms of changing \"quest and kill\" gameplay, it would be nice if one could go through the game without having to play that way at all. I know the primary focus will be the adventuring gameplay, but other elements (farming, trading, politics, art, etc) would help flesh out the world.
Sorry for going off on a bit of a tangent, I know most of these suggestions are of the \"in the future, we may put it in, and in the far future we may fully implement it\" variety. Just think of them as possible long term goals.
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^^ 8o ZOMGing Xenophobes Batman!!! i just discovered a new form of life on planet earth!!
\"Newbien Not-Stupidous\" :D *they are very rare it seems ;) *
Yeah i hope for exactly the same thing.. just be able to play ,no goal really and no goal needed.. any goals i have i set for myself, instead of the game setting it for me
Bravo
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Originally posted by DaveG
Remember, I suggested caching this info. So, only changes would be downloaded. It wouldn\'t be too much more than what is already done with items on the ground now.
Of course only changes would be downloaded, but I see a lo of woodcutting goung on. After all, wood is one of the main materials for construction and other use, so it should be sellable.
Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Seytra
Likewise, take about 500 tiles in the visible area, and you got a lot of information to the clients, so modem users will be out of luck.
I agree that it would be a headache to update 500 tiles. But only a dozen or less would need to be updated at any one time. Most of a forest, for example, would be \"static\". The trees are adults and won\'t change, so all that info will be cached by the client. So, if I walk into this forest, I\'d only need to get the info on the one or two trees cut down since my last time here. (axes MUST be able to wear out to prevent deforestation) Sending a byte or two out to all the clients (that actually go here) would not be an issue at all.
Even if forests wouldn\'t change frequently, if tiles are used for farming, and if these tiles are the tiny size of ~3m^2, there will, unless plant growth takes RL weeks, be a lot of change and thus tiles to update. This is why I feel that tilesize must be relatively large compared to the field of vision.
Originally posted by DaveG
For a simple system, we don\'t necessarily need tiles. Tiles are only really needed for constructing large things, like buildings. For just natural stuff, we could use the same system that items and whatnot use right now. We\'d just need to add seed items, and re-define trees as items that can be modified.
Have you ever moved to a place where ~ 500 items were placed on the ground? I have, in the days of the Emissary scroll drops. The models were simple, yet the sheer number gave me jerky movement until I had all their positions (still framerate dropped). Considering that my system is towards the high end of the scale, and also that I\'m on broadband, this means that for the average system the effects will be a lot worse.
This is the reason why, even without adaptive distance, creatures and items aren\'t displayed if they are beyond a certain distance (which is rather close).
So beware of small tilesize. :)
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Originally posted by Seytra
Have you ever moved to a place where ~ 500 items were placed on the ground? I have, in the days of the Emissary scroll drops. The models were simple, yet the sheer number gave me jerky movement until I had all their positions (still framerate dropped).
Yeah I agree, a full forest might not work at this stage in the game. Theoretically, it\'s quite possible though. The program just isn\'t designed to handle that many items at once. If we automatically go for the ideal world we\'ll quickly realize that it can\'t be done, yet. Until everyone\'s computer can handle a fully detailed forest, I would agree that we should be shooting for smaller and less densely grown flora. (ex. scattered fruit trees, berry bushes, mushrooms, herbs, etc.) If we still wanted to get wood from a forest we could make a compromise. Something like having a pre-modeled forest (a little more detailed than we have now) and designated NPC lumberjacks whom we would buy materials from. Players could still cut down the occasional tree away from the forest (with the stipulation that they must replant it) but they would be forbidden to enter the lumberjack\'s territory.
Random other thought: Eventually, we need to get rid of item labels. It should be the player\'s responsibility to identify items (and not tiny things from a distance) and get labels based on skill after its picked up. The only cue its an item should be that it highlights when the mouse is waved over it. Just think of the idiocy of a few dozen labels of \"apple\" on an apple tree.
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talking about fartming and stuff there is tradskills in this game right?
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Yeah I agree, a full forest might not work at this stage in the game. Theoretically, it\'s quite possible though. The program just isn\'t designed to handle that many items at once. If we automatically go for the ideal world we\'ll quickly realize that it can\'t be done, yet. Until everyone\'s computer can handle a fully detailed forest, I would agree that we should be shooting for smaller and less densely grown flora. (ex. scattered fruit trees, berry bushes, mushrooms, herbs, etc.) If we still wanted to get wood from a forest we could make a compromise. Something like having a pre-modeled forest (a little more detailed than we have now) and designated NPC lumberjacks whom we would buy materials from. Players could still cut down the occasional tree away from the forest (with the stipulation that they must replant it) but they would be forbidden to enter the lumberjack\'s territory.
Random other thought: Eventually, we need to get rid of item labels. It should be the player\'s responsibility to identify items (and not tiny things from a distance) and get labels based on skill after its picked up. The only cue its an item should be that it highlights when the mouse is waved over it. Just think of the idiocy of a few dozen labels of \"apple\" on an apple tree.
Just wanted to say I havent played PS since back when it was basically only roof hopping and crystal collecting so I dont really have any idea what game features have been implemented.
But as far as cutting down trees goes couldn't you use a system similar to rune scape? Because in runescape when you want to get
some ore from rocks you basically go up to it and mine it and then it changes colors and it cant be mined till a few seconds pass and it
changes back to its original color. I wouldnt advise since color changing trees would look cheezy and lag alot. So instead I would just
leave ituntil the tree "respawns" which would be when the tree simply gains its life back and is able to be "cut down" again. Thiswould
eliminate the need for recreated or replanted trees. The tree could even possibly get an hp that it has before the wood can be
recieved. And a user's axe or woodcutting skill could determine how much "damage" the player does to the tree's hp along with which
trees can be cut down. This could also be applied to mining. But I would instead apply a system similar to WoW's in the case of herbs and flowers though.
But I do agree with the fact that item names should not be seen unless a mouse is scrolled over them. Sorta like in Diablo and WoW.
But as for farming who wouldn't like their own little plot for growing veggies and maybe even having a house on to resolve housing
issues some people have about the game but I don't think its too doable unless you limit the places one could build one. Either that or
you have them be able to build a farm anywhere outside any city in the forest or such. It definetly wouldnt be a big one though.
Maybe you could even attach a small shack to it that could be used for storage and a possible mailbox for offline users. To be able to
build one of course though you would need materials, money, and enough of a certain skill such as crafting or building. You could also
make the required skill lvl for it ridiculously high though not unacheivable to limit people with houses/farms. And little creatures like cows
and chickens would be good but not huge herds. Maybe a max of 3 animals or such to each farm? You could use em for leather,
meat,milk, butter, feathers or eggs etc. I think i've rambled enough.
-Trance
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1) You ressurected a 13 month old thread, lying happily in its retirement, thinking "oh, wow, I survived more useless posting". Don't do that.
2) What's with the double spacing?... Don't do that either.
3) You rambled on, adding no new information. Again, no.
4) No, we're not going to just have them respawn like in RuneScape... That's a good way to be laughed out of here, btw.
5) All this, and it's just your first post?... I suggest reading the forum rules (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=22698.0), or learn the quick summary: If you have nothing to add, then don't.
Please don't vandalize old threads like this. Lock.