Post by: Foresteer on March 15, 2005, 12:42:15 pm
Read this => http://www.mufor.org/nmachine.html
though the most simple design and not the best article it still covers the main premise of Homopolar energy output. i intend to build and tinker on the concept once i can get a few more parts and a little spare money to throw about :)
So what do ya\'ll think of the whole concept of free energy?
I personaly think not only is it free (and as a american Free ALWAYS equates good :D ) but it seems practical and simple enough even a \"Backyard Engineer\" Could put most versions of them together in 1-7 days. Thoughts?
EDIT: found a little more info the topic :D (one of em seems past my feild of comprehention.. less \"how to build\" and more \"why it works\" kinda math stuff)
http://www.amasci.com/freenrg/n-mach.html
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/plasma/lectures/node70.html
http://www.tewari.org/
Post by: snow_RAveN on March 15, 2005, 01:24:53 pm
Post by: Foresteer on March 15, 2005, 01:26:33 pm
EDIT: might i add we footed the bill and still do for iraq.. cheney\'s haliburton will get the oil from it.. and WE (who paid the money so that hiliburton would get the oil in the first place) then buy that oil BACK from haliburton.. thats us getting ripped off TWICE we pay for the thing to give to them which we pay to buy back.. it costs them 0% it costs us 200% and you say republicans facists dont know thier buisnesss :)
Post by: provisionist1 on March 15, 2005, 01:31:34 pm
Free energy? Well, plants have been doing it for a billion years. My ideal world would consist of all houses having their roofs covered in solar panels and a wind turbine on top. It would cut the electrical necessity in the world by about 70%. Also, get rid of all the dam*ed SUVs!!!
Well, that\'s enough of my green party ranting.
Xirius
Post by: Foresteer on March 15, 2005, 01:36:59 pm
Well solar panels do prvide \"Free energy\" Now but they are like 10k for just one so O.o I like solar energy for water heating personaly.. you should read the government study on solar powered houses.. its really imformitive
Plus i built a almost homopolar device when i was 9 :P (it would spin for about 3 hours then die.. but it was built out of chemistry magnets and K\'nex for craps sake XD ) So they are simple and ive seen the concept work (plus i mean isn\'t that the hippy (my) dream?! freeloading with no bills raising your food and laughing at the oil tycoons who i\'m not letting freeload off me anymore :P )
EDIT: hydro-electric is the best \"free energy\" short of homopolar N devices in my opinion the water is always flow.. the wind does always blow and the sun doesnt always shine ya know :(
Post by: Xordan on March 15, 2005, 01:47:47 pm
Imo, our best shot at getting clean energy will be nuclear fusion power. Huge amounts of energy, no toxic waste products. Of course, we can\'t make it work yet :) Hydropower is clean, but very bad for the surrounding environment. It can ruin the ecosystem of the area. Solar power is 100% clean, but doesn\'t bring in enough energy. Wind power is clean, but can spoil the landscape and doesn\'t bring in much power. Nuclear Fission is just dangerous and produces as much waste as power. A nessessary evil though.
Post by: snow_RAveN on March 15, 2005, 02:09:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Foresteer
Plus i built a almost homopolar device when i was 9 :P (it would spin for about 3 hours then die.. but it was built out of chemistry magnets and K\'nex for craps sake XD ) So they are simple and ive seen the concept work (plus i mean isn\'t that the hippy (my) dream?! freeloading with no bills raising your food and laughing at the oil tycoons who i\'m not letting freeload off me anymore :P )
cool, maybe if you get your hands on thoese rare-earth magnets you could build yourself a fully-functioning one
Post by: provisionist1 on March 15, 2005, 02:59:07 pm
What can you do? Human progress and natural preservation are a precarious balance...
Just my thoughts,
Xirius
Post by: Xantam on March 15, 2005, 04:39:59 pm
Quote
I\'ve heard about point 0 energy before.That\'s \"zero point energy\" actually, not \"point zero energy.\" Referrs to the amount of energy in the vacuum of \"empty\" space. It has been tapped in minute amounts (see Casimir effect), but not enough to be useful.
Personally I\'ll have doubts about \"free energy\" being exploited until it\'s confirmed by more trustworthy sources, or until I can verify it myself (either logically or experimentally).
Post by: JellyWerker on March 15, 2005, 04:48:41 pm
One question though, why does everyone here seem to be so anti-bush? Haliburton isn\'t even over in iraq, and (really stupic uniformed thing.), so it doesn\'t matter. Plus my family pays $2.30 U.S. a gallon anyways... and if China goes the way economists are thinking it will go, we could have either $30 a barrel oil prices, or $70 8o !!
Post by: Foresteer on March 15, 2005, 08:49:05 pm
Like i said I\'LL be building one just as soon as i can so perhaps i\'ll have video or something at some point :) well i have to go for now.. once i get on for my nighttime run i\'ll post more info ;) (i get on in the middle of the day just to check on some things)
Post by: Monketh on March 15, 2005, 10:19:42 pm
Anywho, I don\'t trust it. Why? Because if it worked it would be everywhere already!
Kinda obvious. Somebody would sell it to you and get rich.
Post by: Shadowrak on March 15, 2005, 10:49:07 pm
Post by: Foresteer on March 15, 2005, 11:58:12 pm
Anyway yes its amazingly simple.. i mean i built one as a child without even having access to the \"intarweb\" or any previous knowledge of \"science\" or \"phyics\" i just though \"Magnets repulse right? what happened if both the out face of a wheel and the rim around it where the same pole?\" i tried it and it somewhat worked..
Plus i mean why not build one and see? it cant cost that much maybe 50-100$ at the most i mean if you can power your house for a one time cost of 500$ (the average monthly bill) then hells yeah i would build one! I say 500$ because a LARGE one would take more money to build.
I realise \"Physics\" says this isn\'t possible.. but wherent physics just 10 years ago BLATENTLY WRONG compared to todays \"physics\" and even 10 years before that they where wrong compared to the theorys of then... Tomorrows \"Physics\" Will call todays phyicists stupid for having completely wrong ideas.. I personaly think this whole \"Physics\" thing is a crock use to say anything that challenges the \"norm\" and what the higher ups dont want well know as \"impossible\"
At the cut rate physics is forever changing so if you are of the mind \"If physics cant right now explain it then it cant exist\" then you are quite frankly stupid (or limited mental funtion to be PC) and are going to stay 20 years behind science. There still are PROVEN things that happen every day that \"phsyics\" cant explain STILL so if you put you entire belief in phyics i shall do the monty python frenchmen taunts at you for being so closed minded :P \"Yor mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!! now leave and do not make me taunt you a second time!!\"
Magnetic force (which the whole homopolar device is based on) is still a \"physics\" anomoly nobody know how it works.. yet everybody does.. Children can grasp ot.. yet the high and mighty scientific community is still baffled by it.. most of mainstream science will stay baffled because quite frankly all of the \"scientists\" make things harder then they have to be i dont know why... maybe if they make everything sound complex then they seem smarter or something (i haven\'t met a mainstream scientist who wasn\'t full of him/herself when in fact i find them to be the most ignorant and primitive of \'em all)
Anyway try reading the links on the main post... it basicaly lays it all out.. once you read it all try doing a metacrawler search on it (you will never learn anything without a little personaly effort.. sorry XD ) there are many ways of free energy.. homopolar is only one of many
Post by: Efflixi Aduro on March 16, 2005, 12:39:38 am
Damn government will probably ban them until we run out of gas in about 45 years though :evil: Stupid government....
And yes its estimated that the world will run out of oil in about 45 years if we keep using it at this rate. I personally cant wait :) Ill have a whole screw oil party and everything readyto go.
Post by: zabeal on March 16, 2005, 04:49:55 am
Post by: Foresteer on March 16, 2005, 08:06:20 am
Quote
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
WTF!!! Everything should be equipped with those things!
Damn government will probably ban them until we run out of gas in about 45 years though :evil: Stupid government....
And yes its estimated that the world will run out of oil in about 45 years if we keep using it at this rate. I personally cant wait :) Ill have a whole screw oil party and everything readyto go.
Yes they should :/
Yes the government is stupid
And do you actualy think our enviroment will last another 45 years at this rate? O.o
And the reason theres no \"conclusive proof\" is A.) well these things are hard to say definitively as of there very nature.. i mean the \"rules\" of electricity say that 100% is the \"max\" output and that it has to decay.. so the rules are gonna have to be rewritten and moderized (electricity and the rules about how it works haven\'t been changed since the 1930\'s and if almost all science from the time is wrong then wouldn\'t this need to be looked at again as well?) and
B.) Anybody whos not \"Everybody\" Doesn\'t want this to work.. but all the best laid scemes cant stop facts :P we just frankly dont need the oil/war mongers anymore.. and there is a lotta red (*cough*oilsupportingdestroyersofthepooreventhoughtheyrepoorbuthavebeen
taught/brainwashedthatitsgodswilltovoteforthesepeople*cough*) people out there.. kinda funny that the \"Reds\" of the past used thier power to keep the people poor and to make themselves the sole rich.. and that the american reds of today do the same thing *shrugs*
Post by: Monketh on March 17, 2005, 10:18:26 pm
Post by: steuben on March 18, 2005, 01:18:06 am
and i just throught of something else... if he feeds back all the produced energy. then what you have is a rather efficent bomb.
Post by: JellyWerker on March 18, 2005, 05:28:14 am
Post by: Foresteer on March 18, 2005, 06:13:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Monketh
[edit: Never mind, there is no way Foresteer is ever going to consider the possibility that even moderates could be correct. Trying to convince someone like him to have more common sense in his politics isn\'t going to work and isn\'t worth my time. In the mean time, get your politics out of this thread!]
way to go on trying but instead insulting :P and wow your wierd O.o i just said that the proven repulican/oil link wouldn\'t like a device that makes them lose power.. if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway :/
but then again your opinion is only yours has no bearing on me.. and i could frankly care less about it since you didnt even try.. way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s :D
Post by: Uyaem on March 18, 2005, 11:28:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by zabeal
I know enough about physics to know that such a device might be possible [...]
I do not mean to be insulting, but are you sure? ;)
Quote
Originally posted by steuben
here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device [...]
This is the argument to prove that the whole article is a hoax. :)
If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.
The article is so crude it\'s not even worth discussing really. ;)
A magnetized flywheel? So, in essence, a magnet. There are lots of rotating magnets out in the universe. The Earth is (a weak) one of them. Over the billions of years of it\'s existance, it should have accumulated enough of this free energy to blow up the universe. :P
If that\'s not enough, lets see what other people on other forums wrote about it:
Quote
Let\'s see:
\"Physicist Bruce DePalma has a 100 kilowatt generator, which he invented, sitting in his garage. It could power his whole house, but if he turns it on, the government may confiscate it.\"
It can\'t be produced because of a conspiracy. Strike 1.
\"His N machine, as it is called, is said to release the \"free energy\" latent in the space all around us.\"
Reference to \"free energy\". Strike 2.
\"The DePalma generator is essentially a simple magnetized flywheel, ie a magnetized cylindrical conductor rotating at high speed with the help of a motor. His astonishing claim is that the present versions of the N machine can generate up to five times more power than it consumes.\"
It uses magnets to violate a fundamental law of physics. Strike 3. And that\'s just the first few paragraphs.
If it is in fact not a deliberate hoax, it\'s at least BS.
In the 50s, people put up long wires in their gardens and connected light bulbs to them, which started to glow. Energy out of nowhere, score!
Only the radio station next door wasn\'t so happy about this, since the wires caught the EM-waves, giving free light to the station\'s neighbours but decreasing its range to but a few kilometers... :P
Needless to say that they put a quick end to it once they found out...
Post by: Foresteer on March 18, 2005, 12:04:22 pm
Post by: leji on March 18, 2005, 02:58:51 pm
if the energy is caught by the fact the magnet is rotating, use some of the energy produced to make the motor go faster and faster, then you have theorically infinite energy which is impossible as far as we know, of course we can be wrong about that, then I\'ll wait for someone to show me that stuff working (i searched the web but couldnt find any clear experiment results)
Pogo : you can have the bulbs glow without radio stations, just put the wire vertically, there is voltage in the air, lightning come from there.
and if you\'re looking for a good way of saving energy, use heat pumps (not sure if that\'s the english word I translated it literally from french) it provides up to 7 times the power you supply, but this works only for heating.
Edit : I found something that seemed like an \'experiment result\' here : http://depalma.pair.com/ but in the conclusion they doesnt talk about reactive energy comsuption, if all the guys who studied this phenomena were as crap as this guy no wonder they find this miraculous, but then asynchronous motors are miraculous too when they work as generators :D
Post by: Monketh on March 18, 2005, 05:16:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Foresteer
way to go on trying but instead insulting :P and wow your wierd O.o i just said that the proven repulican/oil link wouldn\'t like a device that makes them lose power.. if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway :/
but then again your opinion is only yours has no bearing on me.. and i could frankly care less about it since you didnt even try.. way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s :D
What you call common sense may not be common sense. Different people see the world differently and what you call common sense might be just what you want to hear. What you call common sense is easily distorted. I can call anything common sense, and so can you.
I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.
But, I\'m going on vacation and don\'t want to have to think about what might be said in my absence. It rather nags me to leave an argument unfinished.
\"if i cant win i wont try...\" I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation.
Quote
way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s :D
Your assumptions about americans disgust me. You are guilty of intolerance and unjustified hate. In other words, you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\" that exist to match the vast population of \"Ignorant Conservatives.\" I\'ve seen them both, and both annoy me.
Don\'t expect a reply for a while.
Edit: And...
Quote
way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\"
Quote
if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway
Post by: Foresteer on March 19, 2005, 12:21:57 pm
\"old\" americanism is probably the best thing to happen to the world has a whole.. refer to FDR\'s presidency ;) (not truman though talk about riding the coat-tails of anothers sucess)
\"\"if i cant win i wont try...\" I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation. \"
\"I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.\"
wow for never saying anything to me that abouts to more then \"OMG i r0xx0rz j00 suxx0rz\" you sure are confident O.o
\"Don\'t expect a reply for a while.\"
cool then maybe i can have a good disscussion in you absence :P
also your edit must have seemed cool when you wrote it but it actualy proves what i just said.. you used your original quote in EXACTLY the context that my quote countered.. in the buisness thats what we call \"Self-Ownage\"
Also funny how you never admited there could be a flaw in YOUR common sense.. i will openly admit 8 days a week my judment, mental state/health and sense could be full of holes XD
Also \"you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\"\" i am a libertarian who sometimes goes green.... thats a moderate dumbass :/ i loathe republicans and the right wing only some (ok quite a bit more but whatever) more then i hate the far left wing.. once i see the right fascism in smolders the left commy one will be next in ye \'ol tyme crosshairs (still if i had to pick i\'d pick a stalin over a hitler any day)
Anyhowdy i lost the link but i found something about wireless transmission of electricity and how tesla found some kinda \"electric feedback\" from that form of transmission that created more energy then he sent originaly, that sounds like the most plausible form of a free energy device i\'ve found so far
Post by: Seytra on March 19, 2005, 07:48:26 pm
Claim:
1) I have this and that, and it produces free energy.
2) I am even usung it, it works flawlessly
3) There have been several people to reproduce it, it works for all
4) I\'m going to market it in one or two years
5) Sorry, I can\'t tell anyone because (govenment/patents/I died/whatever)
We see that this is just like the usual SPAM mail. I\'d be more than happy to test one of these things, under conditions that I impose, in order to exclude fraud. Obviously, I\'d be really surprised if anyone would actually allow me to do so.
Therefore, if you get this thing (or any other such machine) working, please do the following:
1) post detailed construction diagrams, assembly instructions and photos of the work in progress.
2) post them to me and others via PN, and only then on the net, just in case the conspiracy theory is true (After all, governments constantly prove that they can\'t be trusted).
3) produce a film of it working, at full load, for an extended duration, ensuring that all possible questionable circumstances are removed, though a movie can be easily manipulated.
4) produce as many copies of the device as possible, and get others to use them. That way, the worlsd would become a betterplace immediately and one will reach me eventually so thatI can see for myself.
I\'ve seen too much of this stuff on the net to be inclined to believe anything anymore without me actually using the thing for some days (not that this has ever happened. :P). We all know how very easy it is to post junk on the net that sounds somewhat reasonable.
Let\'s face it: if the government would really conficate the thing if he turned it on, why wouldn\'t they confiscate it just to make sure, as they do with everything else? Additionally, with all that censorship going on on the internet, why wouldn\'t they have taken down that website if they indeed were conspiring?
Post by: Xantam on March 19, 2005, 07:50:32 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PogopuschelQuoteOriginally posted by steuben
here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device [...]
This is the argument to prove that the whole article is a hoax. :)
Don\'t be so sure.
Quote
If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.
Not necessarily.
Quote
The article is so crude it\'s not even worth discussing really. ;)The article may not be, but the subject it brings up is.
Quote
If that\'s not enough, lets see what other people on other forums wrote about it:Appeal to authority/popular opinion: Strike 1 ;)
Quote
Let\'s see:
\"Physicist Bruce DePalma has a 100 kilowatt generator, which he invented, sitting in his garage. It could power his whole house, but if he turns it on, the government may confiscate it.\"
It can\'t be produced because of a conspiracy. Strike 1.
Haven\'t read the article yet, but the claim that it would be confiscated has nothing to do with conspiracy. It\'s what would likely happen conspiracy or not. Use of straw man: Strike 2.
Quote
\"His N machine, as it is called, is said to release the \"free energy\" latent in the space all around us.\"A reference to free energy is an alarm, but not a strike.
Reference to \"free energy\". Strike 2.
Quote
\"The DePalma generator is essentially a simple magnetized flywheel, ie a magnetized cylindrical conductor rotating at high speed with the help of a motor. His astonishing claim is that the present versions of the N machine can generate up to five times more power than it consumes.\"Which fundamental law is that? Nothing in the laws of nature precludes the creation of matter/energy so long as there is conservation.
It uses magnets to violate a fundamental law of physics. Strike 3. And that\'s just the first few paragraphs.
Quote
If it is in fact not a deliberate hoax, it\'s at least BS.
Try looking up the Casimir effect, zero point energy, and quantum foam or Hawking radiation.
Based on what we know and some of the more advanced models in theoretical physics it is entirely possible to have such \"free energy.\" The trick is exploiting this knowledge with technology.
Post by: steuben on March 19, 2005, 11:07:34 pm
Quote
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not necessarily.
yes, necessarily, simply by the definition of closed system. a closed system is zero sum in terms of mass and energy in chemical terms, and mass-energy in relativitic terms. if you have energy or mass appearing it must have a source. and that source must be included to close the system.
actually it isn\'t possible to have \"free energy\". the debt must be paid. either with matter or energy. and there is an interest cost as well. i\'ll dig up the sci-am article that explains it. i\'ve got it somewhere in my library.
Post by: Xantam on March 20, 2005, 02:04:04 am
Quote
yes, necessarily, simply by the definition of closed system. a closed system is zero sum in terms of mass and energy in chemical terms, and mass-energy in relativitic terms. if you have energy or mass appearing it must have a source. and that source must be included to close the system.Even in a closed system there is the creation of matter from nothing (see quantum foam), though it is balanced (I think gravity is what balances it, IIRC).
Quote
actually it isn\'t possible to have \"free energy\". the debt must be paid. either with matter or energy. and there is an interest cost as well. i\'ll dig up the sci-am article that explains it. i\'ve got it somewhere in my library.If it had to be repaid with matter or energy the quantum foam wouldn\'t exist, and there\'d be no Hawking radiation. Likely your Sciam article is outdated.
Post by: Icefalcon on March 20, 2005, 02:48:53 am
It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.
Post by: steuben on March 20, 2005, 02:56:29 am
which brings us to hawking radiation. occastionally such a matter/anti-matter pair will form near the event horizon of a black hole. sometimes one of the member of the pair will fall into the black hole. the other member will head off to somewhere else. the black hole becomes slightly smaller as a result of this particle heading off.
but all of this is based on the concept of a plank interval. basically a plank interval is the shortest amount of time that anything can happen. additionally between the two ends of the plank interval you can violate which ever laws of phsyics and thermo you want. just as long as you are not in violation of them at the end of the interval.
there is no such thing as free energy. it always comes at a cost.
Post by: Foresteer on March 20, 2005, 09:03:32 am
Quote
Originally posted by Icefalcon
Hmm, why don\'t we just create another planet to live on while we\'re at it.
Actualy our own government (American and the EU) is looking into terraforming mars in a few years so :P
Quote
Originally posted by Icefalcon
It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.
then how did you {any of us} come to be talking about this?
anyway.. wow that was what i was hoping for Xantam/Steuben other people with a good knowledge of the topic putting well thought out debate (not to mention putting some of the more far out physics stuff into terms i can understand.. i think mechanicaly, ethereally and in terms of multiverse.. so i find physics is be both hard and not relative most of the time ;( )
the last few posts have made this thread exactly what i hoped it would be.. by all means continue
Post by: leji on March 20, 2005, 12:13:29 pm
This concept would therefor produce a huge amount of energy per cube meter (according to the photos I\'ve seen on the Internet), this means it would be great to supply mobile units (submarines, planes...) so there :
Show me anything working like this and I\'ll find the funds and political agreement to develop it, I leave in France so dont worry they will not confiscate anything, I know that every scientist just need money and a network to have their inventions work, so here, I\'ll supply money and industrial processes, just give me something that works !
Start by this :
Quote
1) post detailed construction diagrams, assembly instructions and photos of the work in progress.
2) post them to me and others via PM, and only then on the net, just in case the conspiracy theory is true (After all, governments constantly prove that they can\'t be trusted).
3) produce a film of it working, at full load, for an extended duration, ensuring that all possible questionable circumstances are removed, though a movie can be easily manipulated.
I disagree with the \'produce lots of them\' thing cause then I could loose the market :)
Best regards
Post by: Foresteer on March 20, 2005, 01:15:11 pm
Now if only i had some spare money for building XD (That \"food\" thing doesnt buy itself.. i wish it did though :P )
Also with a forein power and EU member there is little to no chance of suppression.... as over on that side of the pond they dont listen to our government anyway :P
Quote
Originally posted by leji
I disagree with the \'produce lots of them\' thing cause then I could loose the market
hehe i like the way you think leji *
EDIT: my thought as well.. not needed to fuel planes or ships as they carry thier own electric fuel. not needing to expend so much time and manpower to getting oil and generating electricity would leave mankind to do many more things we couldn\'t previously... such i device could lead to the dawn of a new epoch
Post by: Foresteer on March 20, 2005, 01:17:39 pm
Post by: Icefalcon on March 21, 2005, 04:05:46 am
Quote
Originally posted by Foresteer
then how did you {any of us} come to be talking about this?
It certainly wasn\'t by a machine... But thats getting into religion, and religion tends to be deleted on these forums.
Post by: Foresteer on March 21, 2005, 06:43:40 am
and whats not to say it wasnt by some machine :P we dont know.. of course it wasnt by THIS machine but still begs the question O.o
Post by: XpYtZ on March 21, 2005, 11:48:47 am
A: I have had a number of friends who\'s inventions I have seen working (in one case actually tested) that have been bought by various companies and have never seen the light of day because they might bring an accepted way of buisnes to its knees.
B: \"free energy\" is a buzz word. There is no such thing as an \'infinite energy source\' that we just haven\'t tapped. All things are finite (leaving Deity out of this) and so if there is an untapped energy source it is the finite remanant of another energy source -though that cycle could go on for an incalculable finite period.
C: Magnetic propulsion works untill the magnets (either electro magnets -pointless in this particular experiment since they consume large amounts of power- or naturally occuring) reach zero so you can\'t call any magnetically driven device an infinate motion device...it will eventually need to be replaced.
D: The government would not wait for him to turn it on...they don\'t have to...they can take it at will and leave no one around who remembers it. (There, enjoy your conspiracy theory.)
E: I like bombs! I once made one out of some batteries, nails, baking soda, salt, eye drops, asprin and a grip of vinagar. I\'m sure some of those theings did not need to be in the jar but the stump I put it in sure as hell hated me...as did the neighbors cat. (good idea; making a bomb. Bad idea seting live bait in the testing zone...in a cage 8o )
Now that I\'ve said all that. There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.
PS: \"infinite improbability drive anyone?\"
Post by: Foresteer on March 21, 2005, 01:02:03 pm
A: yeah arent they fun to watch? :D
B: true... refer to top of post
C: Granted but you can quickly give a magnet back its charge by rubbing other magnets on it so its a VASTLY cleaner and more replenishing power source then oil
D: that was what monketh took all out of purportion and went on a \"holier-then-thou\" rampage about.. i just made the connection between republican oil lobby (proven to exist i will laugh you all the way back to your right wing brainwashing sunday school if you can tell me otherwise with a straight face XD )
And the fact that one of our biggest parties (and richest and not afraid to use its muscle to intimidate) would lose its funding if these things where to become mainstream.. therefore unless another nation markets it and puts out info all over so it cant be disclaimed or somebody just runs onto live news and forces them to demonstrate it.. i see no way this can happen in america at the moment O.o
and i do enjoy my conspericies.. i have since my first \"Para\" book \"Cryptozoology and the ET connection\" at age 8 :)
E: who the F*** doesnt like bombs >:D ?!
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Originally posted by XpYtZ Now that I\'ve said all that. There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.
i could grow to like you very quickly :P i tend to think mechanics is the only physics.. i mean this gear turns that Gear... it has worked and will till we all blow ourselves up :O . You know i think ive figured out why science is in a rut lately... its this damned \"this is impossible because our flawed to hell \'Physics\' says so\" mentality amoungst the scientific community oh well.. my rant is now done n_n;
Post by: Draklar on March 21, 2005, 02:20:14 pm
But when I look at the posts from most of the people with physics education here, this quote comes to my mind:
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it.
-- Stephen Vizinczey
I mean if saying that something isn\'t possible because physics (A thing that was proven wrong countless times already) says so, isn\'t sheer stupidity then what is? :P
Eh, I\'ll end with quote from someone that I truly admire:
\"Our quest of the highest theory,
Is controlled by that theory,
So the way we think
Is the closest link?
An expedition through different views
Gives us richly faceted clues,
Let us focus on some of the elements
That\'s a source for endless experiments\"
-- Vintersorg
Post by: Monketh on March 21, 2005, 05:23:02 pm
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Originally posted by Foresteer
I am american.. its not an \"assumtion\" its my day to day life throughout SEVERAL states are all americans bad? nope.. are most.. again no, they still can be intolorent, unwilling to change OR think outside the box... hence \"MODERN americanism\"
Good, you\'re willing to tone it down.
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\"old\" americanism is probably the best thing to happen to the world has a whole.. refer to FDR\'s presidency ;) (not truman though talk about riding the coat-tails of anothers sucess)
FDR was good, modern apathy is unfortunate. I recall hearing that just as many in proportion deserted WWII as Vietnam, as Iraq2. Ditto for casualty rates.
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Quote\"\"if i cant win i wont try...\" I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation. \"
\"I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.\"
wow for never saying anything to me that abouts to more then \"OMG i r0xx0rz j00 suxx0rz\" you sure are confident O.o
Yes, I am confident. I am argumentative by nature when it comes to politics, and in this case, I feel I\'m right.
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\"Don\'t expect a reply for a while.\"
cool then maybe i can have a good disscussion in you absence :P
You could have had a good discussion if you didn\'t insist on complaining uselessly about the republican party.
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also your edit must have seemed cool when you wrote it but it actualy proves what i just said.. you used your original quote in EXACTLY the context that my quote countered.. in the buisness thats what we call \"Self-Ownage\"
You said that if I didn\'t have the common sense (ie: intelligence) to see a republican oil conspiracy, you didn\'t want to deal with me. (which amounts to \"You\'re like a typical americanistic who says:\'You are dumb, I am smart, so I shouldn\'t have to bother with you.\'\") And by that you are a \'typical americanistic\'.
The qoutes may not have been used in the way you saw them, but the display of your hypocrisy stands.
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Also funny how you never admited there could be a flaw in YOUR common sense.. i will openly admit 8 days a week my judment, mental state/health and sense could be full of holes XD
I never said there couldn\'t be. Also \"I can call anything common sense\" is applied to a possibility of me calling something that isn\'t common sense common sense.
No fault here.
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Also \"you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\"\" i am a libertarian who sometimes goes green.... thats a moderate dumbass :/ i loathe republicans and the right wing only some (ok quite a bit more but whatever) more then i hate the far left wing.. once i see the right fascism in smolders the left commy one will be next in ye \'ol tyme crosshairs (still if i had to pick i\'d pick a stalin over a hitler any day)
1.\"dumbass\" You got angry that fast? I mean, calling names is so a mature thing to do.
You can be libertarian and liberal at the same time. Also, being libertarian does not necessarily make you moderate. That much is obvious.
Stalin killed more people than Hitler, but a Stalin would be easier to get rid of.
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Anyhowdy i lost the link but i found something about wireless transmission of electricity and how tesla found some kinda \"electric feedback\" from that form of transmission that created more energy then he sent originaly, that sounds like the most plausible form of a free energy device i\'ve found so far
*shrug* I don\'t keep track of these things since I\'ve yet to see one of them work.
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a later post...
Actualy our own government (American and the EU) is looking into terraforming mars in a few years so
Define \"a few years\". Bush told NASA \'Mars er\' bust!\', but not terraforming. That doesn\'t exist at a necessary level yet.
As for your reply to D:Oil connections exist but are of negligible importance, and you can\'t laugh me back to a sunday school as I\'m agnostic. Plus, what the heck makes you think most christians are republicans?
Anyway, I positively despise conspiracy theories and theorists. It\'s easy to yell that there\'s no proof because it\'s hidden by the government/big-business, but it\'s hard to convince them to go look for it. I find it funny how anti-business and others are given te benefit of the doubt nearly always, but never the government. Bleh.
Anywho, if you\'re american I can harass you about your lack of capitalization. :P
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Oooooh france :) i can think of no better nation to make sure all nations get access to it :D (i mean that non-sarcasticly just to clear up any potential confusion)
I object vigorously! Donnez-le a les Quebecois, ils parlent francais aussi.
:P (Yes, I\'m just kidding.)
Post by: steuben on March 21, 2005, 07:28:11 pm
Post by: Draklar on March 21, 2005, 07:43:58 pm
turn on can mean display to the publicity...
Post by: Hatchnet on March 21, 2005, 08:55:08 pm
If you replace the gasoline motor of an electric generator with an electric motor of the same mechanical output it (the generator) will produce far more electricity(as in a HELL of alot more) than the electricity required to run the electric motor.
In short scientists are idiots, there is a definative set of physical laws we just don\'t know them yet, and there is no such thing as common sence because just like common knowledge everybody has there own version.
P.S. Replaceing the motors on the generator actually works (I\'ve tried it), I am an American (and proud of it), and I am a republican (who belives that there is a conspiracy to support the big buissness known as the petrolium industry).
Post by: steuben on March 21, 2005, 10:18:03 pm
take a standard, heating element. hook it up to the electric motor/generator combo. put a pot of water on the element and see how long it takes to boil. repeat with the gas motor/generator, and simple mains power.
Post by: Hatchnet on March 21, 2005, 11:16:34 pm
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Originally posted by steuben
how were you measuring the output? open circuit or closed circuit with a load? i find it odd. but let\'s try a simple test.
take a standard, heating element. hook it up to the electric motor/generator combo. put a pot of water on the element and see how long it takes to boil. repeat with the gas motor/generator, and simple mains power.
steuben your an itiot.
The output of the generator will be the same with both motors because they have the same mechanical output. However because exlposive force does not equal magnetic force the electric (or electromagnetic) motor is ran of of far less energy than the gasoline (or internal combustion) motor. In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.
Post by: XpYtZ on March 21, 2005, 11:51:31 pm
Blueprints from DePalma: After scrutinizing them with my father inlaw (electrical engenier(sp)) they look like they would at least work mechanically so that\'s a point to him. Sadly the article that started this thread must be older than 1997 since that is when DePalma died. That\'s right boys and girls the inventor is dead.
The Japanieze fellow (or was it chinese? hell...) the asian fellow that was working on DePalma\'s research never was. He was in comunication with DePalma but says in a paper I found that DePalma\'s invention can\'t deliver...though he claims that with a couple of tweeks (and by tweeks he means drilling five holes down the core, in a star pattern and filling them with mercury.) he was able to boost the output to a point where it actually did carry it\'s own load and that of a telivision set. Not nearly the articles 50kW to 500kW (I know those are the wrong numbers I\'m lazy)
The papers also point out that the output is Hi amps Low volts which brings me around to Tesla.
Tesla\'s idea was that energy (much like static electricity) could be fired from one point to another without harming people as long as the draw was stronger between the two points, a theory that is sound. A falure in the system however could cause catostophic damage (not just calaterally) and so it was generally abandon. Tesla did infact descover that energy was somehow being increased between the jumps and proposed that the energy while jumping either A) drew another latent energy form from the air around it as part of an unexplained reaction or B) the collection modules themselves were so attractive that they drew (radical) energy from the air and held it untill the charge was large enough to jump to the next point.
DePalma claimed that magnets bent space and in so doing released small (radical) energy into the sorrounding space which cascaded untill meeting a collection plant (even humans can be collection plants in his scenario). He claimed that his Quadra-Homopolar generator (a homopolar generator that uses two sets of opposing magnetic fields) generated a large enough field of bent space to be mesured. The asian fellow mentioned earlier wrote DePalma shortly before his [DePalam\'s] death to inform him that he had solved a problem in the generator by which adding a load instantly instead of slowly caused a drop in the energy field which brought the generator to its knees.
Basicly DePalma\'s origional Quadra-Homopolar Generator came crashing down and needed a restart if a load greater that the origional energy imput (that going to the motor) was added.
Note also that low wats/high amps is much like the DC power shamble that happened when New York (USA) was first wired and was using DC for their power system. As I recall from history class people suffered sudden heart attacks and horses died instantly for no apparent reason untill someone figured out that the cables were not properly insulated and shut everything down.
All that to say: Sure DePalma\'s work was another step in the right direction but it needs serious research and funding to become plausable. Even if it ended up working eventually it would take a while to impliment in any culture since all appliances and wireing would have to be re-enginiered.
Post by: steuben on March 22, 2005, 01:49:01 am
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.
have you tried that? or even simply just pumping the generated power back into the motor?
Post by: Foresteer on March 22, 2005, 05:07:38 am
Yes the modern apathy and loss of nation pride is a great blow :/ FDR was the shiz.. took us from dust bowl/Great depression into the single world suerpower (till russia got back on its legs) cant forget ole Teddy roosvelt ;D
I\'m the same way :) gotta love a good debate, they are truely how the most things get learned in the least amount of time
Granted i can come off as a \"ignorant liberal\" but just because i\'m \"anti-conservitive\" doesn\'t make me liberal by default ;)
Also you need a little backstory to understand me fully... i come from Texas.. not the desert but E texas.. i come from the far right side of texas (right policaly) so i have seen Nazi right-wing hatred and ignorance in all its fruition.. needless to say i left there to get away from that and i dont want to see that spread; hence my war on the right wing
Also \"Burn on me! i g0t pwnz0rd\" yeah i guess i came off that way (as average modern american) as you said.. so i concede that point... even i cant escape my roots fully sometimes ;(
Meh i had gotten done watching \"Super Milk chan\" so dumbass was just me being a smart one :P (smartass) if you took it as an insult then my bad XD guess i didnt word it right (i am usualy sleep deprived from study)
Actualy they are very important.. Oil is the current energy baron, itdoesnt WANT to be replaced. Congrats on not getting sucked in by religion, i never said that all christians are.. thats you feeding words in my mouth
And i\'m sorry you despise my kind *shrug* most of them deserve it though so \"if it dont apply let it fly\" and i\'ll let it fly :D
And this is a casual post/forum... if youd like me to take longer to throw ideas around but have it all grammaticaly correct i can do that i guess n_n;;
Hatchnet \"I am an American (and proud of it), and I am a republican (who belives that there is a conspiracy to support the big buissness known as the petrolium industry).\"
Glad you are, Nothing wrong with that ;) (republicans have a lot of buisness sense.. it just 99% of the time seems to get the higher ups of thier party in trouble)
My only real beef with the AVERAGE republican is the \"Family Values over Personal Freedom\" you are the ying to my yang... But if \"Protecting you children\" Makes me have to join a list just to rent porn or other such nonsense i\'ve heard suggested then i\'m gonna have to drop the hammer.. i\'m sorry :P
Most of the Average Republicans are just average joes trying to get by.. and there aint nothing wrong with that.. my real beef as i stated is with the family values over all other things and the high end rich republican oil barons who keep us poor and rip us off
And glad you\'ve noticed how oil always seems to get a big peice of our tax pie O.o
EDIT: well that was long.. if i missed adressing something just bring it to my attention... i edited because i have the nagging suspision i forgot to say/reply to something XD
Post by: Hatchnet on March 22, 2005, 07:41:44 am
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Originally posted by steubenQuoteOriginally posted by Hatchnet
In fact properly looped the device is even capeable of powering itself alongside its aplicational use.
have you tried that? or even simply just pumping the generated power back into the motor?
Well considering we had in pluged into one of the 220 lines in the turkey house while the power was out I\'d say yes. And yes it was powering everything in all three turkey houses as well as the turky house well house at the time no where near the generators original capacity but just to give you an idea it was running 23 industrial fans (off of 220 lines), all the overhead lights, three feed hoppers (from the feed bins) three feed rails, and the well pump. And by the way the motor we put on there was a spare fan motor and actualy had a little more output than the gasoline motor we took off.
Post by: XpYtZ on March 22, 2005, 08:02:17 am
That said I have to point out I am not agnostic: My signature is from Luke (Hebrew names version) and I am wrather offended by the sugestion (no statements were made that I read, only sugestions) that sunday school has brainwashed many christians into being republican. Just so hapens that a recent pole found 76% of regular church atendees in my area to be Democratic so the sugestions are on shaky ground at best. MHO
Can we get back to what the thread is about?
Post by: Foresteer on March 22, 2005, 11:11:49 am
And well guess that was ya\'ll impression.. not my inferrence; cant be held for how ya\'ll take something, only how i meant it *shrug*
\'bout the last thing i can say is any offence you took was at at something you percieved.. while sorry you percieved my statement as you did i still dont take it back or apologize for it (i never apologize for what i say.. especialy if i meant it.. sorry im not a PC person so if you cant handle it then it sucks to be you).. i mearly meant \"sunday school\" as something right wing and for those who are immature and as i stated any offence you took was created by you and you alone XD would you rather i had said \"something that for children and that is right wing family value oriented that would lead you to believe the right has no flaws\"? i didnt think so.. so i shorted it to the nearest common denominator :)
Now as i seem to have taken some accute food poisioning i wont be posting for a few hours at even the best case scenario ;(
anyway yes lets get back to the original topic (man i made one off-hand remark in the beggining of this thread and it takes the whole thread of course XD)
EDIT: fixed typos that being sick and al made me miss :(
Post by: davo on March 22, 2005, 11:47:21 am
perpetual ? and it does exist. though not as big and i couldent build it :P. the hair is accurate though in my pic.
![\"Image](\"http://img213.exs.cx/img213/5818/magnet5ps.jpg\")
and there you have it
or if that doesent work
http://img213.exs.cx/img213/5818/magnet5ps.jpg
edit: no i seriously does work, just not as big. you would have seen them at science fairs ect.
it just spins constantly....because you know how magnets repel each other ? well one on the top pushing and one on the bottom pulling makes it spin constanty and it is perpetual motion
Post by: Foresteer on March 22, 2005, 12:28:13 pm
also \"PH34R M4 M4D H33L!NG SK!LLZ!!!1!!one!!11eleven\" i scoff at thee oh contaminated ham :D SCOFF AT THEE!! seriously i usualy bounce back pretty quick from sickness.. oh look a ham! mmmm ham XD (i dont place myself above it either, better throw that ham out after i post while im at it... and not forget and eat it again O.o well my tummy is all better :) yay...
A WINNER IS ME![/i]
Post by: steuben on March 22, 2005, 03:44:25 pm
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
Well considering we had in pluged into one of the 220 lines in the turkey house while the power was out I\'d say yes. And yes it was powering everything in all three turkey houses as well as the turky house well house at the time no where near the generators original capacity but just to give you an idea it was running 23 industrial fans (off of 220 lines), all the overhead lights, three feed hoppers (from the feed bins) three feed rails, and the well pump. And by the way the motor we put on there was a spare fan motor and actualy had a little more output than the gasoline motor we took off.
just so that i have things physically laid out. you have plugged all the mains power into the generator. after having thrown the appropriate switches so that you wouldn\'t be feeding back into the grid and killing some poor lineman trying to get the power back up. you then removed the gas motor from the generator. put the fan motor in its place. then plugged the fan motor into?
Post by: JellyWerker on March 22, 2005, 05:28:59 pm
Post by: Foresteer on March 23, 2005, 08:56:27 am
Post by: Xantam on March 24, 2005, 01:53:22 am
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This argument is pathetic. Do you honestly believe that a machine can create energy out of nothing? Hmm, why don\'t we just create another planet to live on while we\'re at it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect
The Casimir effect is energy from nothing (Not really \"nothing\", but rather due to quantum foam / ZPE).
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It\'s a hoax. Energy cannot simply come into being.Look up quantum foam & zero point energy. You also might want to see this (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hoax).
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even introducing the concept of quantum foam in to a closed system doesn\'t change the fact that in a closed system the amount of matter-energy doesn\'t change. in quantum foam the particles form in matter/anti-matter pairs. the change in energy from such a formation is zero. the change in energy after they mutally anhilate each other is still zero.Antimatter is not composed of negative energy. These particle pairs are supposedly cancelled out by their own gravity, IIRC. Also, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, one might argue that you cannot have a truely closed system, as the ZPE would seem to indicate, effectively restricting closed systems to gedanken (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gedanken).
The question is not whether something can come from nothing, the question is whether we can exploit it for something more than we see with the Casimir effect.
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There are devices that can be made which output a fair amount of power for verry little fuel when tweeked. GE just made a diesel turbine that works wonderfully, so I encourage anyone whith the time to go ahead and make one of these. If it works, hell we\'ve proven that all our physics knowledge is crap. If it doesen\'t we all know the article was crap. Why the endless verbal debate eh? Try it out for Gods sake.I think most of us agree the article is bunk. The topic is worth debating though.
Post by: steuben on March 24, 2005, 04:20:44 am
well yes and no. energy, for the most part, is an absolute value concept. however, anti-matter, or matter depending on which side of the mirror you live on, can have negative energy effects
>>Also, due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, one might argue that you cannot have a truely closed system
one might, but they wouldn\'t be able to get very far. even with heisenburg you can still have closed systems. hesienburg say nothing about the conservation of energies. it only says about the ability to measure the speed and location of a particle.
zpe and quantum foam don\'t invalidate the concept of a closed system. simply because of the definition of a closed system. and for that matter the definition of quantum foam. the boundries may change but the concept still remains the same. a closed system will have no change in the mass-energy of it.
and i think i found the arctile refering to negative energy, it comes from the janurary 2000 scientific american.
Post by: Foresteer on March 24, 2005, 04:44:25 am
Post by: mromu'e fanza on March 25, 2005, 03:36:28 am
I\'ve read a lot of stuff about \'free energy\' (or \'new energy\' or whatever you want to call them...) devices, but never persevered enough to seriously experiment with them.
From the stuff I\'ve read, I believe there\'s an unfortunate \'catch-22\' that arises with these machines. The people who are able to make them work are those who *don\'t* have formal education in physics / electrical engineering etc., who just tinker with things in their back yard, and trust their instincts and what they see with their own eyes. They often spend years perfecting their designs to isolate and optimise the \'free energy\' effect they\'re using, and over that time develop their own theory of what\'s actually happening. But then, having developed their own understanding, they have great difficulty explaining it to anyone else. Often they can\'t explain it at all; they have no idea *how* it works, they only know that it does.
Add to that the skepticism/cynicism of mainstream scientists (\"This is a load of rubbish because I say so and I\'ve got a PhD so I know what I\'m talking about\"... but you\'ll never hear them say it in quite those words!). Millions of dollars are poured into \'hot\' nuclear fusion research, but nobody with the money wants to fund research into known devices claimed to deliver \'free energy\' - even though it could potentially deliver much bigger results for much less money. It seems to research anything in science, one must already be able to \'prove\' it... which makes progress glacially slow.
Then the confusion of the \'free energy\' field itself, with so many different devices that may or may not actually work, and so many different theories.
Then the fact that the effects that make these machines work always(?) seem to be very elusive - the magnets have to be in exactly the right places and the right size, the voltages have to be just right, etc. Most back-yard inventors have neither the money nor the patience to do the amount of trial and error required.
Then the greed of the inventors themselves (\"I want to keep this secret and make loads of money from it\") which prevents most of them from releasing the full details needed to replicate their experiments, and the ego problems they often develop (\"I\'m going to save the world!\").
Then the large number of machines which don\'t actually work - where the inventor has measured wrong and thinks they\'re getting \'free energy\' where they\'re not, or where the machine didn\'t scale up as straightforwardly as expected - or of course, where it\'s an outright fraud.
And finally, physical suppression. Inventors of \'free energy\' devices having their houses / workshops broken into and things destroyed or stolen, or the inventors themselves being threatened, or even murdered. Go and look for information about Stanley Meyer, who was poisoned just after he\'d received a large grant for cold fusion research... (and I very much doubt it\'s \'the government\' as such is responsible... more likely rogue elements in government agencies, and criminal gangs, working in cooperation with the oil companies).
Add all that together, and it\'s pretty hard for any serious research to take place. I hope the Internet can help change that, but I won\'t hold my breath... (and that introduces another trap to fall into: it\'s much easier to talk about things on-line than to actually do experiments! And I have no room to complain here!)
Anyway... here\'s some (hopefully) interesting links: - also search for the names of the people / machines to find more.
http://www.cheniere.org - Tom Bearden has spent more than 30 years trying to fit together theory of \'vacuum energy\' and is convinced that there\'s a lot of serious flaws in existing EM theory. His articles get into heavy particle physics stuff and are too far removed from reality to build a real device from, but if you\'re interested in theory, take a look.
(also search for \"Tom Bearden\" on Google to find more - his paper \"The Final Secret of Free Energy\" is a good place to start)
http://www.geocities.com/theadamsmotor/cdmotor.html - Tim Harwood\'s replication of the Adams motor with CDs and cheap readily available parts. Apparently instead of heating up, it actually sucks in heat from its surroundings!
http://www.zpenergy.com - a \'free energy\' news portal
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=MostPopular - several papers about various \'free energy\' devices and topics
http://www.keelynet.com/tilley/tillwilson.htm - Can it really be this simple? I tried building something like this using 3 motors (2 of them in \'reverse\' as generators) and a car wheel, and it didn\'t produce any \'free energy\'. (Hatchnet - this machine sounds similar to what you described - can you tell us any more?)
http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/ - big list of motors claimed to gain power from permanent magnets.
http://jlnlabs.free.fr/ - Jean-Louis Naudin\'s energy and propulsion experiments. All of them professionally done and well documented. Most recently he claims to have achieved over-unity results from a new variety of \'cold fusion\' reactor.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page - a \'Wiki\' site about free energy systems.
http://www.remnantsaints.com/AlternativeUtilities/Transportation/Bob_Boyce/ - Bob Boyce is one of a few people claiming to have made a car run on water, by using electrolysis with resonant frequencies that produces much more hydrogen/oxygen with far less energy that normal.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/watercar - Yahoo group for discussion of water-powered vehicles. Frank Roberts from this group claimed to have a working device with electrolysis with a simple pulsed 12V, but I haven\'t checked recently to see if anything else has happened.
I experimented a little bit with pulsed electrolysis, but didn\'t notice anything interesting... but I never got as far as trying to replicate Frank Roberts\' or Bob Boyce\'s device.
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/Dragone.pdf - \"Energetics of Ferromagnetism\" by Leon Dragone. A simple and quite easily understandable of how it should be possible to extract energy from a permanent magnet, which will then replenish it from whatever source powers permanent magnets. Dragone claims at the end that he built a working motor and solid-state device from this theory - unfortunately he didn\'t give any details, and having died of a heart attack in 1988, isn\'t around to ask any more.
Did I really write that much?!!!
(I\'ll be away until Monday so can\'t reply to anything until then)
Post by: Foresteer on March 25, 2005, 05:34:55 am
I actualy read a great book when i was living in Ft Wayne (the library there r0xx0rz j00r b0xx0rz it has all manner of \"alternitive\" and \"para-\" books on alll sorta wierd stuff) \"The Free Energy Device Handbook\" it had blueprints original text and much more... i\'ll try to buy it and scan or type some exerpts or something
*checks out the new sweet links :] *
Post by: Xantam on March 26, 2005, 05:38:02 am
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one might, but they wouldn\'t be able to get very far. even with heisenburg you can still have closed systems. hesienburg say nothing about the conservation of energies. it only says about the ability to measure the speed and location of a particle.It doesn\'t say anything directly, but it is responsible for the quantum foam. And it\'s not simply a limitation on measurement, it\'s an actual \"fuzzyness\" in the nature of reality, if you will.
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zpe and quantum foam don\'t invalidate the concept of a closed system. simply because of the definition of a closed system. and for that matter the definition of quantum foam. the boundries may change but the concept still remains the same. a closed system will have no change in the mass-energy of it.That\'s the thing, due to quantum foam, the energy in \"empty\" space is constantly fluctuating, and is a definite non-zero. These particle pairs are \"borrowing\" energy from nothing to appear, and then annihilating themselves an instant later, releasing the energy back into the void. This energy from nothing is responsible for the pressure on the plates that causes the Casimir effect, though I\'m not aware of anyone having actually come up with a way to get any use out of this energy, or increase the amount of energy that can be used. This is the key point that spawns a lot of \"free energy\" theories that people make claims about. The amount of potential energy in ZPE is enormous. If it could be tapped into without limitation (except that dictated by natural law of course), then we could do virtually anything. The stars would be easily within our reach (see Miguel Alcubierre\'s warp drive). It is very compelling.
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Then the fact that the effects that make these machines work always(?) seem to be very elusiveWell, except for cold fusion. That has been reproduced numerous times, just not consistently, so there is doubt.
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who was poisoned just after he\'d received a large grant for cold fusion research... (and I very much doubt it\'s \'the government\' as such is responsible... more likely rogue elements in government agencies, and criminal gangs, working in cooperation with the oil companies).Sounds very cloak and daggery, but sadly, could very well be true.
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*checks out the new sweet links*You can find all those and more on Google, which is why I didn\'t bother to post more than a couple links, and just said to search yourself instead.