PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Kixie on March 28, 2005, 12:13:30 am
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I don\'t feel especially big of a person to post this here. But frankly after viewing a certain video that a close friend informed me of, I didn\'t think it possible to not inform people on the subject. I don\'t know much about it, persay, but I can tell you after viewing this I must know something that others do not. If everyone knew what happened in this video, it would cease to exist quite frankly. I don\'t think you can really watch it and not react the way I am right now, or as many other people have now.
I have to ask the moderators do not take this down. I can see their reasons too, but I have to argue in defense that everyone needs to either see this, or be told about what exactly is done in this video. The acts you will see are brutal. Frightening. Extremely graphic, even those people I know to have very, very tough stomach\'s have seen this and informed me they needed to go puke. I really don\'t WANT to show this. But like I said, unless everyone knows what happens, it isn\'t going to get done.
The acts are amazingly cruel, and although it has brought many people to tears, or extreme vomitting, it doesn\'t have a human being as a victim. The subject is as you may have already picked up, animal cruelty. Fur farms in particular. This video just. I don\'t ever know how to put it into words. It is frankly the most horrifying thing I have ever viewed, and is 100% real. The things you will see cannot be faked with any sort of CG effect, or physical prop.
I ask you to only view this if your 18 or older. I am not older than 18 and have viewed this, but I don\'t feel very good knowing that those who are not ready to see this are viewing this, not ready for the images they are about to view. Like I said before, this is extremely graphic. Please do not complain to my inbox, and private messages if you find this revolting. Simply do what I am going to do, and try and help peta, or find another way of stoping this insanity.
The Video (http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm)
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Well being a green that eats me up.. *hands out AK\'s for everybody* lets kick some ass :tdown: :evil:
Am i a borderline eco-terrorist?.. why yes thanks for asking :P
did it make me sick or sad? nope just angry i ever find onna those places i am so handing out tickets to the Pain* Train X(
*ful death
See how they like getting skinned *humph*
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Those poor animals... Thats horrable!
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I had to stop watching half-way through. Poor creatures, it wouldnt be so bad if they actually killed them first.
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Yea, I didn\'t watch it, and i won\'t
I have a soft spot for animals, Could someone just describe wat goes on in that vid? lol..
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they are beating i think racoons, to an almost paraletic state, yet still consccious and skinning the alive, starting at the back with a knife, then just ripping it off with force and leaving the animal to die on other bodies of skinned creatures :|
very wrong indeed
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holy cow thats just sick ...
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sorry to break your pro peta bubble, but that movie was arranged by peta, therefore you can\'t trust it. Should I try and obtain videos of the bombings peta has funded of scientists that where gentically modifying animals and plants to live better in poor/drought-famine stricken countries? Things like that could save thousands of human lives each year, yet peta and other green groups try to ruin the work. Your friend\'s a moron if he believed that. See the camera work? What farm goes around professionally filming everything they do? \"and this is how we clean up the cow manure...\"
btw Foresteer: people like you are part of the problem, gullible to the point of violence, man\'s greatest piece of literature , the bible, says what? for man to be masters of the earth. No animals life is worth that of a humans, they don\'t have souls, nor a conciense(sp) They may feel pain, but the feel it stupidly, e.g.: \"ow, this thing is hurting me!\", not \"why are the people persecuting me?\" Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.
Edit: Kixie, after viewing it, I can tell you that cg is advanced enough to recreate that, give a modler a copy of maya and some plugins and a year or so, and they could have made that.
Edit2: Demarthl: the animals are unconcious, they can\'t feel anything, it just makes it easier to get the fur off the body because it is still warm.
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Although I completely disagree with JellyWerker in that animals are below humans (in some philosophical ways, I think they are superior) I must agree that PETA is not to be trusted. I like green groups, but PETA is a disgrace to the cause - their use of violence and terrorism is unacceptable.
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Originally posted by JellyWerker
sorry to break your pro peta bubble, but that movie was arranged by peta, therefore you can\'t trust it. Should I try and obtain videos of the bombings peta has funded of scientists that where gentically modifying animals and plants to live better in poor/drought-famine stricken countries? Things like that could save thousands of human lives each year, yet peta and other green groups try to ruin the work. Your friend\'s a moron if he believed that. See the camera work? What farm goes around professionally filming everything they do? \"and this is how we clean up the cow manure...\"
btw Foresteer: people like you are part of the problem, gullible to the point of violence, man\'s greatest piece of literature , the bible, says what? for man to be masters of the earth. No animals life is worth that of a humans, they don\'t have souls, nor a conciense(sp) They may feel pain, but the feel it stupidly, e.g.: \"ow, this thing is hurting me!\", not \"why are the people persecuting me?\" Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.
Edit: Kixie, after viewing it, I can tell you that cg is advanced enough to recreate that, give a modler a copy of maya and some plugins and a year or so, and they could have made that.
Edit2: Demarthl: the animals are unconcious, they can\'t feel anything, it just makes it easier to get the fur off the body because it is still warm.
aye true, at some points they are, then at some points they\'re in so much pain they just kinda switch off
im going to sound completely ignorant now, but i honestly don\'t care whats happening there, they aren\'t trying to take my skin, not my problem.
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Is this the one with the raccoon? My friends tell me about it. I dont like to watch cruel stuff where things get hurt, and my brother would kick my arse if he found out i was, so i wont bother. i know what its about, but im not gonna watch it, just thinking about it gives me the creeps. ive seen like the first 4 seconds or less, and it shows the raccoons face.
Anyway, like JellyWerker said, its just how you look at it. I support \"greens\" and al that stuff, but im not a vegetarian or anything.
No animals life is worth that of a humans, they don\'t have souls, nor a conciense(sp) They may feel pain, but the feel it stupidly, e.g.: \"ow, this thing is hurting me!\", not \"why are the people persecuting me?\"
You dont know what the animal is thinking, so how do you know they dont have feelings? And, who said they have no soul or concsience? is there really a way to prove an existance of a \"soul\"? touchy subject.
*runs away and goes to do something worth while, like NOT watching cruel videos*
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What jackass would do such a thing. I mean if. Don\'t those bastards have the morals to atleast KILL the poor basterds before they skin em? Those guys will burn in hell. Poor animals man. What sick people there are in this world...
Im not an animal rights guy or anything but thats just f***ed up.
Oh my god, I feel so sick watching this... Then again it might be from some personal problems going on...
And yes I stopped it after about 30 seconds. Oh my god my I think I\'m going to cry.
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What really got me was that they did this when the animal was ALIVE. Its bad enough that you dont just kill the animal with something quick but doing it slowly and to the point where you already skinnned the animal and you left it to stay living is just pointless.
Things like this make me wish we never came into being :\\ Humans suck and the whole world knows it.
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I think eflixxi aduro summed it up quite well.
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Although I have no love for peta and their ways, this video and these people piss me off. The problem though, is that unless this will be outlawed under pentalty of some sort, this WILL go on because there will always be people with less emotions for animals and there will always be violence like this. Now, peta is only giving us stress by showing this. YOU KNOW we cannot do anything because this is different country, differnt values. What we gonna do? Invade their country like Iraq and start demand they stop cruelty to animals??? heh
Kids, don\'t become green, don\'t become blue. just understand that this stuff is unavoidable. There\'s always going to be violence of this sort, and even worse in some cases. If you don\'t like this, don\'t participate, don\'t think bout it. IF you will think about it more and more, you will become one of Peta and they are in fact radicals (even if it\'s for good cause)
DON\'T watch this stuff, this will only make you stressed and saddenned.
PS. please delete link. Really not appropriate (worse than pron)
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sashok there is a warning and it is a persons choice if they wish to see it or not so just leave it
And even if people can\'t do anything I feel they have the right to be informed, i sure would want to be
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Originally posted by JellyWerker
btw Foresteer: people like you are part of the problem, gullible to the point of violence, man\'s greatest piece of literature , the bible, says what? for man to be masters of the earth. No animals life is worth that of a humans, they don\'t have souls, nor a conciense(sp) They may feel pain, but the feel it stupidly, e.g.: \"ow, this thing is hurting me!\", not \"why are the people persecuting me?\" Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.
Oh ho ho.. oh man.. i havent laughed that hard in a LONGGGGG time.. oh hehehahahi XD
Mans GREATEST peice of literature? oh man.. you must have only read the the first four books of the new testiment.. and didnt read the rest.. Joshua was ordered by god to do some \"Ethnic Cleansing\" of the palestinians in the book of exodus something we consider a war crime to day.. \"god\" has ordered stuff just as hanous as \"allah\" the bible is the qouran (spelling?) just another flavor.. Best peice of.. *giggles* oh man *wipes tear*
\"Think about it, if you are an evolutionist, this is actually a good thing, it is survival of the fittest, the humans, dominating other species that aren\'t \"fit.\" You need to look at a thing from all viewpoints before you can give it a true judgment. And if you start handing out \"tickets,\" you\'ll be arrested, because there are still sane people on the earth that think humans are better than animals.\"
Actualy i mean that retoricaly but if i thought i could get away with it i would.. My killing them would just be me \"evolving\" past my other men.. besides with your logic if they cant defend themselves from me.. \"Goodbye... you are the weakest link\"
also if it was a third world country like most fur farms are thier governments wouldnt do shit to stop me anyway so :P
That stuff actualy happens and if you support it then you my friend and others like you are the \"viral\" strain of humans Agent Smith spoke of in the matrix**
I prefer being a mammal who lives in equalibrium with nature... not using it.. if you listen to that \"masters of all the beasts\" then you are a sad sad induvidual who takes a 2000 year old work of literature (not a religious text) wayyy to seriously
** The quote
originally said by Agent Smith
Agent Smith: I\'d like to share a revelation that I\'ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you\'re not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.
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Foresteer you are forgetting one thing, THESE ANIMALS ARE ALIVE!!!! Tell me somthing is it \"survival of the fittest\" to take 5 seconds of you life to kill a poor animal with a knife before you skin the poor thing then leave it alive? How bout I get a bear to eat a couple people alive and call it \"survival of the fittest\", I will be charged for murdur and thrown into jail or put to death.
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XD i knew i forgot to address something... i never said it was ok or good.. (im the fanatic green remember? :P )
Fur is completly wrong in my opinion.. USLESS the fur is off a animal that you are going to eat or use as much as possible ANYWAY that is natural balance... its not wrong to kill and meat ISNT murder.. excessive meat and fur harvesting IS
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There are alot of different view points posted about this subject but being from a mixture of farm and city life I can understand both sides of the issue here. However there are some very important points about this subject I would like to make.
(1) PETA is a dangerous extremist group not to be trusted or belived.
(2) Real animal fur is a necesity in much of the world as the synthetic freezes and breaks at the the colder temperatures even as far south as the US Canada border.
(3) Much of the way these animals were treated is illegal in most of the world. THIS INCLUDES LIVE SKINNING!
(4) These animals were bread and raised for their fur.
(5) This video was more than likely staged for several obvious reasons (point number three amoung them).
(6) I may have raised and slaughtered animals for meat and hide but if these animals are actualy being treated the way they are in the video (which is just wrong; no animal even those being killed for meat and hide should have to endure that kind of torture) tell me where so I can go \"collect a few scalps\"
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Good points Hatchnet. Another thing I would like you to see is that under the video, Peta has a link \"donate now\" so that if you are on top of your emotional climax sorta speak you will not miss the button to give them money.
I can\'t stand any organization , whether it\'s help children, help poor, help victims of tsunami or animals that do that.. particularly show some sad pictures/video and ask you to donate. Sure, they need money, but the way they collect it pisses me off. PISS off PETA and take your cruel videos with you and beat off to them yourself. damn video ruined my night time sleep. eeeh should have read the warning...
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Interesting points, and I agree it is definately good to take videos by an organization with an objective, with a grain of salt. But the fact of the matter remains. This does happen. It happens alot. I for one am not going to sit around with my fingers up my you-know-what and trick myself into forgetting this happens. It\'s wrong by my beliefs, and I\'m not the kind of person who can ignore such an unbelievable lack of humanity.
You can make your own decisions after you watch this. It\'s your life to live, not mine. However, all I ask is you actually watch this for as long as you can, and tell me that something doesn\'t need to be done about this.
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Just my two cents
I must agree that this video is disturbing... but I don\'t believe it... It just dosen\'t make sense why would anyone make more work for themselves by trying this while the animal is still alive?
I would also agree with Jellywalker that tis video was probably staged by PETA.
I cannot belive that they are still in existance. The leaders at PETA are... well... Insane. I have been personaly threatoned with my life by a member of PETA. Because I hunt and fish. I tried to explain to them that as a hunter and by following the laws put down by the department of wildlive I am helping the deer and elk population. We have taken away much of their habaitat and natural preditors.
I consider myself a good stuart of the land. I will not kill something I do not inted to eat. It sadens me to see \"Trolphy Hunters\" I remeber one time I was hunting and found a carcas of an els with only the head removed and I felt verry angry at whoever did that.
Sorry about the rant... I just get verry upset when I see PETA I agree that what was in that video is verry disturbing. But I don\'t feel that it is something that happens everyday. It is much easier to skin an animal when it is not alive. PETA loves to make people feel bad by showing things like this.
Just look at the messages posted so far about this. Thiese reactions are the natural reaction to something like this. It might be different if people (as a whole) didn\'t feel that this is worng... but they do. It is not normal for a person to do what is dipicted in this video. It just dosen\'t make sense. This was either staged or at the least it is a rare occurance. It\'s just to unnatural.
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yeah im not as extreme as PETA.. more along the lines of greenpeace.. anyway Hatchnet made a good point.. most of all if you are going to raise a animal to kill at least USE ALL OF IT just raising a life to use one part is just the same as the argument over stem cells so there :P
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That is well, simply put, horrible and inhumane. The skinning part doesn\'t bother me if they did it right after they killed the animal. Or, at least kill the animal after you skin it to put it out of its misery. I, like some others, think that humans and animals should be considered equal, or at least humans just a little above in the chain. Like the famous quote, \"Treat others as you would want to be treated.\" I think the same should apply to animals.
Also, like others, the people at PETA are pretty well, crazed and obsessive. All living beings should have the right to not be tortured, and when they die, hopefully it will end quick.
That\'s about all I have to say on the subject. Just about everything has been said, and I didn\'t want to repeat too much.
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Originally posted by Foresteer
yeah im not as extreme as PETA.. more along the lines of greenpeace.. anyway Hatchnet made a good point.. most of all if you are going to raise a animal to kill at least USE ALL OF IT just raising a life to use one part is just the same as the argument over stem cells so there :P
Damb can\'t prove me wrongs takeing things out of context.
Forester are you going to eat a racoon, or an ermine, or a fox, or a badger? About the only edible animal I saw in the video was a small bear. Use what can be used of the animal but don\'t gripe about the discarding of what can\'t be used.
Also you aparently missed one of the other points. These animals were raised for the purpose of being skined for their hides. And while this does not make the way they were kept or skined right; it does mean that there is nothing wrong with the fact that they were skined.
And one more thing this and stem cells realy don\'t compare well as an argument. Now on the other hand if we were talking about simply cloneing the animal hides from animal stem cells then it would, but that is a comepletely different topic and of topic for this thread so we won\'t go there.
Edit: And by the way Kixie this isn\'t all that graphic just disturbing to \"human\" sensibilitys of how something like an animal should be treated. I would suggest you never watch a how to video were they actualy show the complete process of skining and/or butchering an animal; now that\'s graphic.
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you could eat all of those.. in fact i dont know of a mammal that CANT be eaten (even small squirles can be eaten) bones can be used for crafting Skin for the obvious and the rest can be used as animal feed
I wasnt griping O.o last i recall (and these being MY words i should know :P ) i said used all that is possible i mean all of it could be used but some just isnt practical (like tendons)
And yeah they are the same.. raising an animal just for its fur is the same as raising a fetus just for its stem cells
i agreed with you (or at least what i gathered from your wording.. it was a little ambigous though) and i get snapped at XD
(man the normal Ps forum high Intelligence has taken a downward spiral in the area of comprehention in this thread it seems.. maybe we\'re all tired :/ and just not getting what each other is saying)
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In response to your last post Forester I can think of only one thing to say and unfortunatly it is a flame.....
CITYSLICKER
You can not eat predaters, and the majority of the time it is not wise to eat scavangers. You show how truly little you know by claming that we could eat animals like mink, fox, and ermine. And while in some circles coon is considered quite tasty; I would suggest that if you try it you carefully moniter what it eats before you slaughter it.
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Hatchnet
You can eat all of those... they just arn\'t the most nutricious or delicious things to eat because they are on the second tier of the animal food chain and humans are not equiped to live on a strictly carniviorus dies none the less on a strictly carnivourous diet if carnivours.
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Originally posted by Socrates Demise
Hatchnet
You can eat all of those... they just arn\'t the most nutricious or delicious things to eat because they are on the second tier of the animal food chain and humans are not equiped to live on a strictly carniviorus dies none the less on a strictly carnivourous diet if carnivours.
Your right we are not equiped to deal with meat because it does not provide any of the necesary protiens that come from the herbivors and omnivors consumtion of plants. You can eat predaters but if you do unfortunatly YOU WILL GET SICK. Only certain types of animals are equiped to eat the meat of carniverous animals and you will notice that the predaters that are not will leave the carcase of another predater alone.
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I have just veiwed this and i am furious!!!!!!!!!!
I luv animals and i hate ppl like this, it is just \"survival of the fitest\" right. wrong! it is animal cruelty and i think it is really sickening. anyone who wants to do this is ok if the animal is already dead, but doing this while they are alive......... damn it! i cou not bear it but i still hold on because alot of ppl hav to kno about it at some point of their life!!! i just cant bear to watch it again for that is when i will vomit!!! and im one of the strong stomach type. if anyone is reduced to this level of human nature i say that they are just messed up and have real big problems. ESPECIALLY IF THEY LIKE IT!!!! i think that u should not hav posted this but i am gald that i now kno about some human nature that is just pure evil.
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I have decided, that because of his moronic and immature behavior, I will be finished discussing this topic or any topic with foresteer. He uses no true logic, does not look at any other views besided his own skewed ones, and has bad spelling. Conficio!
Edit: I actually will discuss one thing with him if he wished, his behavior. Pm me if you wish to do so, don\'t do it in a thread.
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
CITYSLICKER
Yup born 10 miles in the country from a \"city\" of 18,000 people in the middle of texas... your right my \"cityslicking\" doesnt let me know ANYTHING about these things :rolleyes: (i know more about survivalism and what can be eaten on a hunt then many hunters) you just basicaly flamed yourself :P
i never said they are cavier and crackers i said they CAN be eaten.. you can eat preditors.. and scavengers? catfish anyone? methinks you be the city-slicker ;)
EDIT: hehehe think what you want of me i could care less :) im the kinda peson you love or hate and oh boohoo jellyworker and monketh seem to hate me.. oh my 2 out of 6,000,000,000,000 people hate me ohh boohoo whatever will i do 8o [/sarcasm]
yeah way to tell me flat out refusing to address me soo 2nd grade :D we can discuss my behaviour but IN a thread i know the type \"OMG FORESTEER SAID OLOLOLL111!!eleven i am right and he is wrong!1\" you might not be it but i err on the side of syniscism and so what of my spelling? this is a casual forum... grammer whore.. i could spell all prim and proper but i frankly have better things to do then making sure small online forums reads what i say in oxford english
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Originally posted by Foresteer
Originally posted by Hatchnet
CITYSLICKER
Yup born 10 miles in the country from a \"city\" of 18,000 people in the middle of texas... your right my \"cityslicking\" doesnt let me know ANYTHING about these things :rolleyes: (i know more about survivalism and what can be eaten on a hunt then many hunters) you just basicaly flamed yourself :P
i never said they are cavier and crackers i said they CAN be eaten.. you can eat preditors.. and scavengers? catfish anyone? methinks you be the city-slicker ;)
EDIT: hehehe think what you want of me i could care less :) im the kinda peson you love or hate and oh boohoo jellyworker and monketh seem to hate me.. oh my 2 out of 6,000,000,000,000 people hate me ohh boohoo whatever will i do 8o [/sarcasm]
yeah way to tell me flat out refusing to address me soo 2nd grade :D we can discuss my behaviour but IN a thread i know the type \"OMG FORESTEER SAID OLOLOLL111!!eleven i am right and he is wrong!1\" you might not be it but i err on the side of syniscism and so what of my spelling? this is a casual forum... grammer whore.. i could spell all prim and proper but i frankly have better things to do then making sure small online forums reads what i say in oxford english
Well seeing as your the one who seems to think you can survive by eating predaters; I am going to seriously doubt your tracking skills (something I grew up doing by the way). And I seriously doubt you know more about what is edible and what is not than someone who has taken more than one survival course. Not to mention that your behavior matches that of every cityslicker I know and someone from the country esspecialy someone familiar with farm life would not find that video very graghic or disturbing at all just abusive of the featured animals. Such a person would also be familiar with with the international laws and regulations concerning the treatment of stock animals (this means enforced by all UN nations), would be aware of the fact that orginizatins like PETA are way off the mark in what they think they are trying to do, And would not make coments about not useing all of the animal seeing as they realize that they have very little use for things like bones, teeth, brains, claws, hoofs, stomachs, horns, extra, extra in todays society. Yet they would also understand that we have need of high nutrient protien balanced meat (even though they would most likely not put it that way), real fur and hide, and yes we still use the intestines in most cases to make sausage.
O and nice reference to the catfish by theway; do you like turning your own guns upon yourself? I know what catfish eat and it is far less diturbing and likely to cary dangerous parasites that the things racoons tend to eat but the point I am going to make is never in history has the entire fish of any fish been used which seems to blow your entire argument out of the water.
Edit forgot something: Born 10 whole miles out of a city of 18,000, tell me were you born at a hospital? O and by the way only twice in my life have I lived within 30 miles of a city that size and yet I have still made regular trips to them. I repeat this time with a snear CITYSLICKER
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i never said i was an expert i just have more then a laymans knowledge.. who said i was born i a hospital?
You can sneer away like a dumbass see what i care :P i have visited most of the major cities in texas.. doesnt make me a cityslicker even though i travel as i always return home and resume my regular life
you cant say jack shit what i can and cant do ive been tracking since i could see you can eat just about anything and i dont care who taught you otherwise
I said it made me angry.. i lived with many animals so i have grown close to animals (thats something somebody from the country SHOULD know.. be careful when you point a finger as 4 more are pointing back at you friend)
Never said we raised cattle
you can use all of a fish (or anything else for that matter) with the exeption of a few parts.. goes to show what you know also ya\'ll must have some \"stupid shield\" that blocks certian words i said use AS MUCH AS F***ING POSSIBLE not all there is in the animal... if i have to say that one more time im handing a dunce cap to everybody in this thread
anyway this thread is going nowhere good for any of the parties involved... i knew it was gonna get outta hand the moment i watched the video.. and for the sake of not having to don my flaming gear i\'ll politely just let you bounce absurdity off each other
(wow PS community has gone downhill fast.. maybe my original assesment of this place was wrong? never shoulda tried being social its ALWAYS bitten me in the foot due to the simple fact people suck, will always suck and will keep increasing that level of suck)
well thanks for reminding me why i like to let the cattle bleat at each other while i silently watch.. for that i honestly thank ya\'ll :rolleyes:
mayhap a close would be in order before we all hate each other forever XD (dont hate you guys just think ya\'ll are having some moments of \"less then average intellegence and maturity\" thats all :D spring break does that to people i guess)
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Since when did this thread have to do about which one of you is the most experienced tracker or \"Cityslicker\"? Converting one another won\'t make a great change to the situation so I don\'t see the point in going on, especially not when there are really only 2 people involved who could easily take it to PM\'s.
What you can see on the video does happen, but it seems to be more common in asia than in for example Europe or the US. Now I\'m not trying to defend this, but we do have to take into consideration the fact that this happens in a different culture than our own. This really does not make it right, but it might explain why there is such a strong reaction to the clip.
Hatchnet, one of your points was that we need fur, but I couldn\'t really understand why. (this is not a flame) Do we really need it or is it just a little bonus in our materialistic lives where we want only the best?
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Yup redmonk your right.. boiled down to it since neither of us is changing our minds i decided to quit speaking in this thread (this post is to just explain why.. then im done) Maybe there should be a rule on \"extreme\" thread like this.. they seem to bring out the worst in us XD
And i agree fur really is just materistic.. i only tracked animals to befriend them.. and if i was lucky they would let me teach them things, thats where i get my high from :D what makes me extatic is when the animals ive taught teach thier children the things i taught them.. that makes me feel really good knowing i made a lasting impact on a whole family line =)
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That was the most SICKINING THING I HAVE EVER SEEN!!
I didnt know who PETA was before but now i do see that they are \'radical\' in what they do.
BUT, the the footage its self is worse then my worst NIGHTMARE and i dont spose they made it on the comp or some bs like that.
Very distressed...
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Urm while I agree with most points about this being PETA and thus not to be trusted I just have one quote to draw on
im going to sound completely ignorant now, but i honestly don\'t care whats happening there, they aren\'t trying to take my skin, not my problem.
Haven\'t you heard the words
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Think about it.
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This is sad :(
Exactly one of those things that make me not care about all the people who die in cataclysms...
When human stands against nature it\'s called \"survival of the fittest\", but when nature stands against human it\'s called a \"disaster\".
I don\'t even mean the cruelty, but skinning in general. If someone wants an animal fur for himself, he should go and hunt it down. Then pay at least a bit of respect to the killed creature. Buying the fur in order to look more fashionable just isn\'t normal...
It\'s not the \"survival of the fittest\", it\'s \"survival of the sickest\"...
As always, I blame the source which started spreading the word that animals were created just to serve the human...
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If I ever met those guys I would reinact the first 20 secs of what I watched upon them. You deserve it especially if you torture.
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ok alot of these arguments have gone stupid and inmature.
i watched the video, i didnt find it disturbing or anything but it is really bad.
what it comes down to is they should put the animals down first (lethal painless injection).
and it doesent matter weather you can eat the animals or not.
aww yea mate im gonna eat a nice can of racoon meat. well you can eat all the racoon meat you want my friend.
im sure it is a standard in most countries to kill the animals properly weather its for meat like cows and lambs or for skins like racoons.
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I think Foreseter needs to go back to school or atleast try some of the things he\'s claiming and suggesting. As for the fur and hide issue leather is one of the best light protective materials there is. And fur is needed in the areas were the temerature has a tendancey to drop well below zero as the synthetic fur freezes and breaks.
Fact: Carnivorous animals do not produce many of the protiens and vitamins that herbivorous or omnivorous animals produce as a result of the consumption of plant matter as a result the human body and digestive system are not equiped to properly digest and use the meat from carnivors.
Fact: While scavangers due consume enough plants to produce these protiens and vitamins they often consume other materials that carry parasites and can also spoil the meat.
Fact: Wild animals will not alow humans to aproach them.
Fact: Animals in general do not have the ability to retain learned behaviors if the behavior is not reinforced.
Fact: PETA is know to exagerate and stage so called acts of animal cruelty to arouse public anger as well as support for their \"cause\".
Fact: Respectable animal rights groups often stage counter protests against PETA\'s protests.
Fact: The way in which thses animals (in the video) were kept, killed, and skinned is damaging to the hides reduceing their useability and value.
Opinion: If the opperation shown in the video was real it is most likely an underground opperation for blackmarket furs.
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Originally posted by davo
ok alot of these arguments have gone stupid and inmature.
i watched the video, i didnt find it disturbing or anything but it is really bad.
what it comes down to is they should put the animals down first (lethal painless injection).
and it doesent matter weather you can eat the animals or not.
aww yea mate im gonna eat a nice can of racoon meat. well you can eat all the racoon meat you want my friend.
im sure it is a standard in most countries to kill the animals properly weather its for meat like cows and lambs or for skins like racoons.
They probably dont use lethal injections because they cost money and these people dont have much money, remember that.simply slit the troat if you ask me.
But, the fact that this doesn\'t disturb you is disturbing :P
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Originally posted by davo
ok alot of these arguments have gone stupid and inmature.
i watched the video, i didnt find it disturbing or anything but it is really bad.
what it comes down to is they should put the animals down first (lethal painless injection).
and it doesent matter weather you can eat the animals or not.
aww yea mate im gonna eat a nice can of racoon meat. well you can eat all the racoon meat you want my friend.
im sure it is a standard in most countries to kill the animals properly weather its for meat like cows and lambs or for skins like racoons.
No you know what it doesn\'t come down to any of that it comes down to a video of a bunch of freaks torturing animals to their death. Our comments aren\'t immature they are real emotions to what we have witnessed..and anyone with a heart wouldn\'t say otherwise.
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
Fact: The way in which thses animals (in the video) were kept, killed, and skinned is damaging to the hides reduceing their useability and value.
And where did you get that fact? Are you a taxidermist, or a skinner? Do you even know one? Stop walking around like you own the place. None of those \"facts\" are even relevant. I could care less if PETA was run by satan himself, this whole thread has NOTHING to do with peta. Regardless who made this video, who promotes this video, or who even gives a hell about this video, this HAPPENS. This indeed does happen!
Sometimes I even doubt the validity of your claims that some of have even watched the movie! This is happening somewhere, right now! I don\'t know about any of you, but I\'m going to do my best to find the right path and try and stop these people, instead of making boasts in a forum board about how much I know about the subject.
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I do skin and tan my own hides Kixie, and while yes there are places where this klind of thing does happen there is very little you or anybody else can do about which is a vey unfortunate occurance. Also while many of you find the scenes of the film brutal and graphic they are no less so than much of what is shown on national geograpic and animal planet. In fact the only thing disturbing to me about the video is that human beings can treat another liveing thing in such a maner.
O and one more thing your poorly thought out emotional reaction is exactly the kind of response PETA is trying to elicit with the video witch is exactly why the video MUST be called into question.
In the words of the great Sherlock Holms \"Elementry my dear Watson\". And just so you people realize what I am saying here is the meaning of the line that has so eluded much of Sir Connan Dole readers: The evidence comes not just from the crime itself but the way in which the crime is comited and presented; observation is the key and not even the slightest detail must be omited.
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
O and one more thing your poorly thought out emotional reaction is exactly the kind of response PETA is trying to elicit with the video witch is exactly why the video MUST be called into question.
You mean \"doing the right thing\" is just a response from PETA, to join their secret organization to destroy the world? You\'re delusional. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Kixie
Originally posted by Hatchnet
O and one more thing your poorly thought out emotional reaction is exactly the kind of response PETA is trying to elicit with the video witch is exactly why the video MUST be called into question.
You mean \"doing the right thing\" is just a response from PETA, to join their secret organization to destroy the world? You\'re delusional. :rolleyes:
You misinterpet. The emotional \"this is wrong response\" is what PETA wants out of people. They want people to react with emotions because it causes people to not think and make poor decisions. You may not have had cause to have the experiance to realize this yet but that is how such terrosit groups operate; they controll people through emotion. Anger, fear, hate, pity, horror, these are the true tools of the terrorist; and I hate to point it out to you Kixie but your blind desire to \"do the right thing\" though noble had they been showing this video to you at a stand on the steet would have caused you to fall right into their trap.
The desire to do good is a great and powerful weapon and the most powerful in our arsenel to be used both against the fur traders in the film and against groups like PETA, however this weapon must be tempered by knowledge and wisdom or it can and will be turned against you. Remember my old sig \"The good and just must use the light to battle the darkness, but they must beware for if the light becomes to powerful it will burn those it is meant to protect\". The next time you see something that cause you to react this way take the time even if it is only a few seconds to think about just what is going on and the preasenters reasons for showing it to you.
O and if you realy do whant to do what little you can to help I suggest you contact your local humane society, or arbour day foundation. As they would be your best bet for being sure that the right thing gets done.
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how about this conversation is over! i believe it should be deleted! some ppl arent ready to experience this kind of stuff u kno!!!
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Originally posted by Elemental Guardian
how about this conversation is over! i believe it should be deleted! some ppl arent ready to experience this kind of stuff u kno!!!
Thats whythere was a warning kixie posted. This conversation shouldn\'t be stopped just because it\'s contriversial (sp).
I think all of you guys agree that this is wrong, but why is the arguing still going on?
I understand the horror of skinning an animal alive but simply skinning an animal when it\'s dead isn\'t bad. Remember that these people are just trying to make a living. Though they do need a ittle \"moral injection\"
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I do not support Peta, they would take a human life to upset medical research that could cure diseases that are life threatening. I don\'t like what I have seen of them.
I also do not feel that ALL animals should be left alone always. I feel that consuming animal products that were hunted or \"farmed\" ethically is a reasonable thing to do. My spiritual path has ALOT of vegitarians, and quite a few that are not. We have debated the topic of Veganism or not to death.
For me it comes down to the fact that even Vegans KILL to eat...for harvesting vegitables KILLS the plant (there are a few exceptions like beans and cucumbers where harvesting the fruit of the vine actually keeps it alive, but to try to survive for any length of time on JUST these would do permanent HARM).
I do however feel that torturing or tormenting an animal before you eat it is CRUEL and there is a special kinda Karma for those idiots.
For instance, my mother is a deer hunter. And I have gone with her, that is why I am willing to eat the venison she has given me. I saw her bring down a rather LARGE buck (IE he had lived a LONG time, fathered MANY young), it took her ONE shot. By the time we got there, his heart had stopped. I left before she dressed him.
She collects the hides, horns, hooves, and meat. EVERY bit of the animal is used that can be. And she takes feed out to them ALL winter long, but only hunts during season.
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i am wondering where this is filmed. if it is filmed in a third world country sometimes humans get beaten and burnt alive. otherwise if its in america its an illegal and doesent seem like a proper skinning practice cause the thing isnt dead yet. but i wouldent know im just me.
also hunting isnt that bad a thing. in australia they kill many kangaroos in the outback. mainly because they are running out of controll and trying to take over the country mainly because of the amount of drinking water now because of irigation in the desserts and country, where usually it would be dust dry. and you cant always eat a kangaroo well you can but not that many.
you arnt aloud to hunt any animals in australia unless its something ferral like cats lol or the good ole canetoad.
and hunting isnt bad just the same as eating a steak from a cow (just as long as the cow died quikly and married ect...)
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I think we should go and find people who do this, beat them with sticks and then start skinning them >:|
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Originally posted by Xordan
I think we should go and find people who do this, beat them with sticks and then start skinning them >:|
X( I\'m in... :rolleyes: