PlaneShift
Support => Technical Help: IN GAME bugs (after loading world) => Topic started by: Vandel on March 30, 2005, 01:48:10 pm
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I was gonna keep this to myself, because it\'s really handy, and I\'m not sure if this is even fixable.
I can engage enemies, kill them, and not be attacked back.
I first encoutered this in the sewers with rat hunting.
If you can manage to them in a position where they cannot follow you, all you hav to do is approach them slowly and hit the attack button, there\'s a point where you are able to engage and attack, but the creatures do not retaliate.
second flaw. I am able to do this now without getting a creature stuck. If you approach them, engage, and step back the click engage, they stand in place. You can then approach them slowly as if they were stuck in the previous example, and attack them in the same way without having to worry about being attacked back.
on a whole... I hope this can be fixed, or since this was posted, there\'s going to be an awful lot of people who are going to still be able to cheat.
It is very effective. I can engage ubernauts with my super weak character. I can\'t do any damage, but if I was slightly better I could take them on easily with no worries. I had to develop the second exploit, as in the valley and such you can walk through trees so there\'s nothing to get creatures stuck on.
2 huge flaws, which need to be resolved in the combat system.
Also, I know there\'s an ambidextrous advantage, but with the cat race for some reason the left hand is the right hand. The animations are backwards. So it appears as though I\'m attacking with my shield. And there does not seem to be any increase in damage when using weapons on anything other than normal.
Also, it does not seem to be taking into consideration attacking with two weapons. This also goes for mining, I have to put a pick in my left hand. When it\'s in my right hand the game tells me I do not have pick in my right hand. So I put it in my left hand and it\'s fine.
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Thats the same with Klyros, we attack with our sheild, I think it also happens with other races, but so far these are the only 2 i heard of
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Yea, iv seen this happen lots of times. Not a big issue if your actually hitting with your sword and it looks like you are hitting with your shield. But if in fact, you are hitting with your shield and your shield is the one doing the dmg, well, you wont be hitting hard now will you? Should try to be fixed. Have you tried shifting your weapon and shield to the opposite hand? i think its inverted.
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Originally posted by Externals
Should try to be fixed. Have you tried shifting your weapon and shield to the opposite hand? i think its inverted.
Aye, the female Enkidukai models are left-handed, whereas their equipment menu displays the sword on the right-hand side and the sheild on the left.
It would probably be quite cumbersome to change the model animations, though, so I\'m thinking that\'s low on the priority list. I mean, there are still rather large glitches in scenery (transparency issues with the trees just outside Hydlaa Plaza), and equipment issues (armour and the like). It\'ll probably be done eventually, but there are more important things to be fixed first.
The animation doesn\'t have anything to do with damage and defense calculations (yet?). I believe damage dealt is the same whether you equip your weapon to your left or right hand, just as defensive properties are the same with your sheid on your left or right hand. I haven\'t noticed any difference, but if I\'m wrong, please correct me.
~Indi
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Well, I believe you hit with your right/left hands. So one hit you might be doing 10+ dmg, the other like 2 dmg (since its a shield). As for the bugs, iv made a thread about every single bug there is to be corrected.
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Originally posted by Externals
As for the bugs, iv made a thread about every single bug there is to be corrected.
I wouldn\'t go that far...did you even visit the bugtracker that Acraig linked in the post to which you are referring? There is even a reported bug (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/bugtracker/bug.php?op=show&bugid=479&pos=6) that sounds like the one being described in this thread.
And just try equipping a sword in your right hand (or paw), and a shield in the other. Now try the opposite. There is no difference for me (female Enkidukai with base stats). I think I recall reading about a proposal to make Right/Left hand-sensitive equipment. You know, if your character is right-handed you would do more damage when you equip a sword in that hand.
So far I don\'t think such a thing has been implemented (my search was far from exhaustive, though).
~Indi
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The major flaws I was mentioning which seems to be lost... is the ability to kill huge monsters, attack, and otherwise without having to worry about being attacked back.
I thought this would have been extremely prevelent as it\'s easy to build up characters quickly.
Later if monsters will be dropping items, and being able to attack say a Tefusang, Trepor, or otherwise with a really low character and have success with no worries of being attacked back, then you\'re going to find characters leveling quickly.
The biggest problem with super stating isn\'t the progressions points, in two days killing gobbles and rogues in the sewers I was able to accumulate 86-102 (some got used for training) progression points, or whatever. Sure...
Progression points are useless without money. However, if you can attack larger creatures which drop items of value, and give you gross amounts of experience, you\'re going to have people jumping levels and stats very quickly, legally, which will be almost impossible to check. You can start out with rats, progress to gobbles, then to rogues, trepors, and even with a weak character you can engage ubernauts in the ruins by getting them stuck on walls and fighting them in the way described in the beginning of the thread.
Even if you were tracking kills, to experience, progression points, or whatever, everything would checkout, even human intervention looking over this would technically not be able to see a problem, as the character in all fairness exploited a combat problem, which should register progression points, kills, a loot if there was an item to loot, and everything checks out.
Money is tight, why waste it on potions of healing and otherwise...
I\'ve seen posts where people are waiting to fight ubernauts until they can grab glyphs of fire and much much higher skills. Why? Fight them now... when you can fight and not get hit.
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Yes vandel this is a problem. PS has some major balance issues, like much progressoin points, less money to train etc. They\'ll be fixed after the great blade WIPE, i think.
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It doesnt have anything to do with balance.. have you not read his post? Its a glitch that lets you attack and not be attacked back. Thats a serious mistake that can be taken advantage of.
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Exactly, this has nothing to do with balance, but an exploit in the combat system.
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Sure it\'s the exploit but look on the other hand.
don\'t we have huge progression points but very less money to train. So isn\'t it a balance issus.
If NPCs give more loot and less exp, then we can use our progression poitns as we accumulate.
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If it\'s not corrected and at a later time when creatures, or during the period occuring after the wipe and things are added, start dropping things of value, it\'s going to make a mess. People can identify creatures known to drop quality, or high value items, and wait for them to spawn the same way lower level characters do for rats.
this totally defeats the need to fight in groups.
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What I would like to see would be this. More creatures... rats are fine, but 6 coin a pop is ok, but not exactly something in where you can get wealthy off of. The next level is the Fefu... which is 16...
You got mining which will give you anything from 2 to 12 per piece...
If they are going to fix the bug they have to fix the loot problem. For I can imagine a great exodus the minute this bug is fixed.
I can kill clackers, and low level rouges... but I get nothing out of them. I can kill the low level tefs as well and get 16 for each tooth... but what I\'d like to see would be something like this.
Rats = 6 per fur (as is now)
Clackers = 10 per shell piece
Tefs = 10 for each tooth (weak ones first in the coliseum) , 12 for medium, 16 for the hard, and go 4 up on each step...
The other creatures I don\'t know but more creatures should have an item they drop that should be worth an amount per their level of difficulty. Such as the rouges and others... in where starting rouges go for 10 a pop, and the hard ones go for 30.
Ubers would go for 30, starting, etc...
If you are going to fix a bug you need to allow people to buy things easier then... for there are rats, but it takes forever to get enough rats to buy anything worth buying.
Not to mention there aren\'t enough rats to keep everyone happy either.
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Mercat; I think you\'re getting issues confused. you *always* need to fix bugs. Playability issues will always suffer when bugs go unfixed and are they tend to be harder to fix than things like adding loot (done some programming elsewhere, so I\'m making assumptions here). attempts to improve the loot/progression is underway elsewhere (trust me; I\'m worried about the magic system cost/reward ratio), but not pertinent to the discussion of whether or not there is a bug, and bugs always need fixed simply because they aren\'t supposed to be there.
If it weren\'t a bug, and were an intentional balance system your discussion of loot might be in order- but I don\'t think anyone will ever intentionally institue a situation (outside of ability/spell/etc use) where monsters can get attacked without retribution.
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Originally posted by darkerdreams
Mercat; I think you\'re getting issues confused. you *always* need to fix bugs. Playability issues will always suffer when bugs go unfixed and are they tend to be harder to fix than things like adding loot (done some programming elsewhere, so I\'m making assumptions here). attempts to improve the loot/progression is underway elsewhere (trust me; I\'m worried about the magic system cost/reward ratio), but not pertinent to the discussion of whether or not there is a bug, and bugs always need fixed simply because they aren\'t supposed to be there.
If it weren\'t a bug, and were an intentional balance system your discussion of loot might be in order- but I don\'t think anyone will ever intentionally institue a situation (outside of ability/spell/etc use) where monsters can get attacked without retribution.
I\'m not saying don\'t fix bugs (trust me I\'m working on my own MMORPG) I know bugs are to be a pain, but the issue is this... if you fix bugs, you need to balance out what that bug fixes if it\'s in a situation such as this.
With the limited income the game produces such as it is, they either need to tweak the kill/reward ratio, or work on a way that will allow progression in certain levels so you won\'t need money to spend on purchasing such upgrades...
Such as if you have 10% of your body covered in light armor on, for every 10 hits you go up 2% in that skill. If you are wearing 50% you get 4% every 7 hits. If you are wearing full protection you get 6% every 5 hits. (each hit has to cause damage)
In the long run it will even itself out, for the more you fight the weaker creatures the harder it will be for them to hit you, so by that time you will be forced to go higher up in the creature ranking so you would be able to raise your skills.
In that same time as you are fighting your endurance will go up, your agility, strength, etc... all slowly, but they will go higher.
You will have the chance to use your PP to go higher faster than normal because of training in it, but you will still be able to rank faster in real combat experience.
So you will always be progressing, only if do they give you more of a chance to get more money out of each creature should that not happen... but I think if they want to make it more realistic it should.
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Originally posted by DivineLight
Yes vandel this is a problem. PS has some major balance issues, like much progressoin points, less money to train etc. They\'ll be fixed after the great blade WIPE, i think.
Before the wipe I hope.
As for the original two bugs up top. They aren\'t problems with the combat system. They\'re map and model problems, and most likely a few coding problems. They\'ll get fixed soon enough, most likely before the wipe.
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I\'ve got issues with that logic, especiall since the devs are working on a client to allow them to alter drops and items more easily. it seems like trying to fix the cash/drop problem before the actual combat system/programming whatever is putting the cart before the horse and asking for more trouble.
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Originally posted by darkerdreams
I\'ve got issues with that logic, especiall since the devs are working on a client to allow them to alter drops and items more easily. it seems like trying to fix the cash/drop problem before the actual combat system/programming whatever is putting the cart before the horse and asking for more trouble.
Not really. The order doesn\'t matter as long as it all gets done before everything is wiped. And as there isn\'t a set deadline for the wipe, it\'ll all get done. Also, loot drops etc. are done by the rules and settings departments, while fixing bugs in code is done by programming. I see no logic in a department sitting around doing nothing waiting for another to finish what it\'s doing.
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Originally posted by Xordan
Not really. The order doesn\'t matter as long as it all gets done before everything is wiped. And as there isn\'t a set deadline for the wipe, it\'ll all get done. Also, loot drops etc. are done by the rules and settings departments, while fixing bugs in code is done by programming. I see no logic in a department sitting around doing nothing waiting for another to finish what it\'s doing.
I don\'t disagree with that, I do disagree with
Originally posted by Mercat
If they are going to fix the bug they have to fix the loot problem. For I can imagine a great exodus the minute this bug is fixed.
which suggested that one should depend on the other. I absolutely think that loot is a problem (as one of the newbies who can\'t afford anything it\'s a huge problem for me) but there\'s a client being made to facilitate that- meanwhile the other bug is a bug with no redemption, not content waiting for a client to facilitate creation.
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I noticed the same thing with the left and right especially during mining. The prompt said I needed to wield the mining pick in my right hand so I put the pick in my right hand according to the view. It told me I did not have such a thing in my right hand. I switched the pick to what appeared to be my left hand and the system was happy. Being left-handed in RL, I was pleased with the perversity of the situation. However, as a bug it should be attended to lessen confusion.
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Originally posted by Mercat
What I would like to see would be this. More creatures... rats are fine, but 6 coin a pop is ok, but not exactly something in where you can get wealthy off of. The next level is the Fefu... which is 16...
You got mining which will give you anything from 2 to 12 per piece...
If they are going to fix the bug they have to fix the loot problem. For I can imagine a great exodus the minute this bug is fixed.
I can kill clackers, and low level rouges... but I get nothing out of them. I can kill the low level tefs as well and get 16 for each tooth... but what I\'d like to see would be something like this.
Rats = 6 per fur (as is now)
Clackers = 10 per shell piece
Tefs = 10 for each tooth (weak ones first in the coliseum) , 12 for medium, 16 for the hard, and go 4 up on each step...
The other creatures I don\'t know but more creatures should have an item they drop that should be worth an amount per their level of difficulty. Such as the rouges and others... in where starting rouges go for 10 a pop, and the hard ones go for 30.
Ubers would go for 30, starting, etc...
If you are going to fix a bug you need to allow people to buy things easier then... for there are rats, but it takes forever to get enough rats to buy anything worth buying.
Not to mention there aren\'t enough rats to keep everyone happy either.
I really love this post mercat, but if we get more ways to earn more money we need more ways to spend them, so we need more stuff ingame and we need more content creators for them :(
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Originally posted by DivineLight
Originally posted by Mercat
What I would like to see would be this. More creatures... rats are fine, but 6 coin a pop is ok, but not exactly something in where you can get wealthy off of. The next level is the Fefu... which is 16...
You got mining which will give you anything from 2 to 12 per piece...
If they are going to fix the bug they have to fix the loot problem. For I can imagine a great exodus the minute this bug is fixed.
I can kill clackers, and low level rouges... but I get nothing out of them. I can kill the low level tefs as well and get 16 for each tooth... but what I\'d like to see would be something like this.
Rats = 6 per fur (as is now)
Clackers = 10 per shell piece
Tefs = 10 for each tooth (weak ones first in the coliseum) , 12 for medium, 16 for the hard, and go 4 up on each step...
The other creatures I don\'t know but more creatures should have an item they drop that should be worth an amount per their level of difficulty. Such as the rouges and others... in where starting rouges go for 10 a pop, and the hard ones go for 30.
Ubers would go for 30, starting, etc...
If you are going to fix a bug you need to allow people to buy things easier then... for there are rats, but it takes forever to get enough rats to buy anything worth buying.
Not to mention there aren\'t enough rats to keep everyone happy either.
I really love this post mercat, but if we get more ways to earn more money we need more ways to spend them, so we need more stuff ingame and we need more content creators for them :(
Actually spending right now isn\'t the problem it\'s gathering the money for spending... the collecting/trade/sell or buy ratio is a tad bit off. (sort of like the Stock Market)
Right now I have 53 Progression Points. the cost of adding one progression point is roughly 24 to 60 trias (I think). To level up in light armor it will cost me almost 240 trias, and 6 pp to do so.
I run out of money before I run out of Progression Points. To collect enough tria to level once in light armor I need 15 Tefs teeth or 40 rat skins. (don\'t even go there with the eyes just yet)
There is a way out of it, allow for every \"level\" the person rises, they are allowed to spend a set amount of progression points towards their character for free...
Sort of like this:
Level 1 - 7 = 5 progression points
Level 8 - 14 = 15 progression points
Level 15 - 21 = 30 progression points
But in that case a real level system would be possible. What you could also design would be a progression tree, in where spare progression points and \"money\" could be spent on special traits, but only if you have the levels in your character to do so.
Lets take a blacksmith for example, we could create two progression trees like this: I\'m not on the team so I didn\'t finish it ;)
(http://www.cyberpawz.com/images/Planeshift/Blacksmith.jpg)
The Weapon Smith has a starting point Woodwork, that would be 5 PP, to get to Whittling Level 1 he will need to put in 10 progression points. To enter a level for Basic Design, and Wood Engraving, another 10 PP to each.
Then you get to go to level 2, Basic weapons Level 1, allows you to create clubs and wooden sword handles, this would get you ready for level 3, which then would allow you to start working on metal...
Now For Basic Weapons Level 1, we would be looking at 15 progression points, as would be Wood Clubs, and Wooden Sword Handles.
Now you ask, ok, fine what about if they want to add levels to a specific trait, they will be able to. Lets say they want a superior Wooden Sword Handle which will be able to be sold at an average of 50$ to get to that point they will have to have at least 10 levels in that skill, which with each progression will cost 5 pp more. So level 1 is 15, by the time you get to level 10, you have put in 375 progression points into the skill, which will make him a master in that trait. A person will not be able to progress past 10 points, at least for now. Since an entire tree will be well over 5,000 pp to fill on one side alone I expect if we do up to 10 smithy levels before they get to a master smithy. So by the time a person is a \"level 100\" character they will either be specialized in one trait, or diverse in many :)
For items though we would have to work on other things...
And if you are looking for a content designer tell me, I might have someone in mind for you... like I said I am working on my own MMORPG, but I am also a CEO of a fledgling game company. And one of my 3D graphic designers is of need of some work. Unless he gets off his bottom and writes me that proposal I\'ve been asking for the past two months. Trust me it\'s not laziness on his end, he is finishing up school.
In any case hope to hear what people think about that idea :)
But this would allow the ability for cost to be less of an issue for training, it would also allow more items to be made... and also it would start an economy over there in which people can buy or sell items of various quality, and craftsmanship. And it would also in the long run take care of some of the money issue... by the time this would be implemented I would expect a lot more things to be in the game by then.
And if you say this looks like a Diablo style concept, don\'t fool yourself I had the idea way before they did, the only problem is you can\'t copyright an idea ;)
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I love these suggestions Mercat, you truly put a deep insight on all those balance problems. The PP>Trias is a very old bug i dunno why it\'s being fixed??
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And for the content creators, yeah we need lots of them, as our current Programmer:Artist ratio is 6:1 (according to moogie). The more of these guys the better.
And you\'r progression tree idea is great, if it get\'s in the game we\'ll have lots of options and fun.
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Originally posted by DivineLight
I love these suggestions Mercat, you truly put a deep insight on all those balance problems. The PP>Trias is a very old bug i dunno why it\'s being fixed??
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And for the content creators, yeah we need lots of them, as our current Programmer:Artist ratio is 6:1 (according to moogie). The more of these guys the better.
And you\'r progression tree idea is great, if it get\'s in the game we\'ll have lots of options and fun.
I\'d kill for that ratio myself... Actually the issue is finding someone who has the time to design the stuff. I normally don\'t say this but your ratio is fine, there should be 6 programmers to one artist. The reason is that by the time the programmers have everything done the artist has his side done. I am not belittling the artist at all but the fact is that once an artist designs a 3D rendering of the item the programmers have a lot of work in front of them to make it animate, work etc...
Trust me I know, I am technically one of the artists as well as the CEO. I do my bit as a hobby, I\'m more of a brainstormer myself.
And thanks, I tend to look at the big picture, as well as keep an eye for detail...