PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crunk on April 05, 2005, 01:01:55 pm
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rats give salvagable items
but when you are stronger
and can kill bigger things..
clackers, gobbles...
you get nothing?
what is the point of risking your life to kill harder things if you get no drops/money. the progression points are useless without money.
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This caused this player to go BACK to rats and harass my character for TWO HOURS. Point is PLEASE put loot on monsters. and triple the number of monsters and put them in MANY different, rather OBVIOUS locations...if you please.
I would think BOTH gates should open, and have newb fodder type mobs. And yes, anything bigger than a rat SHOULD drop something (Rogues dropping nothing? Umm not much of a theif now is he!)
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The point of putting monsters in the game is allowing combat and spells testing, as well as a small income to get started, but PS is a RPG = Role Play Game, not a hack and slash, the point is to create a living world with a lot of features, not to queue to kill a rat... You should concentrate on quests to make money.
If you dont find any quest, search more, and talk to people, this game is about multi player experience, NPCs are not the only source of income, PC can help too... I sometimes give quests to newbies who try to RP, and maybe I\'m not the only one....
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Right now...the quests are BROKEN...and you do not spawn with a pick and enough skill to mine. So what do we do...sit around town and tell tales about our past? (in other words...not test a blooming thing!!!)
If we are not down there we don\'t notice the 50 bugged rats eyes that sat there all night, or the 10 rats corpses that never despawned (four hours later, when I went to check, same rat corpses and same people farming them).
If there were more monsters...then we wouldn\'t SIT and camp those that there ARE that drop loot.
How can I test something...when I can afford to buy it to try to TEST wearing it??? Can\'t do it if you can\'t afford it, and thus far, only monsters brand new characters can kill...that are within a ten minute run of spawn in point are RATS...in the sewers. And only THREE spawns that are easily found. The rest are too well hidden.
It is not like this is the first beta I have done, more like high teens at this point. So I am NOT a newb to testing.
Originally posted by leji
The point of putting monsters in the game is allowing combat and spells testing, as well as a small income to get started, but PS is a RPG = Role Play Game, not a hack and slash, the point is to create a living world with a lot of features, not to queue to kill a rat... You should concentrate on quests to make money.
If you dont find any quest, search more, and talk to people, this game is about multi player experience, NPCs are not the only source of income, PC can help too... I sometimes give quests to newbies who try to RP, and maybe I\'m not the only one....
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Dont worry that much about testing, a lot of people are able to test all the features, the biggest problem right now (to me at least) is that the implementation of fighting as brought countless power levelers, and RPers are leaving the scene... We need newbies to RP, not to slaughter themselves on the plaza
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They give a lot more valuable loot than rats. Apparently their teeth are used in fine weapons production, magic, and probably in alchemy when that is implemented.
I understand Tefusangs are difficult to beat, so get a group together and hunt them.
Good alternative to rats.
Xirius
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or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
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Like I said in another thread...
...given that there is an impending wipe, if there were more ways to earn tria, more players would have more to lose with a wipe. Then there will be more complaints or pleas to keep their money.
Hopefully once the wipe happens and all these bugs are worked out THEN monsters can drop more and there will be more quests with higher payouts so we can earn money faster.
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First of all, why people are talking so often that the monsters arent giving them this what they want? (it is - fortune so that they will be able to buy everythink and bost every skill in one day)
Why won\'t they ask for the so buggy quest to be fixed and made in better and more player friendly way?
And if they have to ask about the monsters, why I don\'t I see questions that the monsters always spawn in the same place and not moving around so that you will find them always in the same exact place.
Why don\'t they ask that the monsteras are so slow and even if all of the monsters shouldn\'t be faster then them, why some (like rat) aren\'t?
Why won\'t the rat run away when it see some few times bigger creature attacking them?
Finally, how people can ask to have more monsters to kill? Did they even ask themselves where do these creatures are coming from? Wouldn\'t it be logical that when some kind of animal is constantly killed, it will extinct?
When some people already see that there is not enough animals for them, maybe these are close to extinction?
I ask all to ask to themselves these questions before they will ask the devs for more monsters or more valuable loots.
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im posting to show how me and nikodemus arrived with the same sig completly by accident, and also to say that PS isnt a hack and slash :P id say more, but i think that sumerises the whole thing in one short sentance
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Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?
The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.
In a response about the \"RPG\" answer: different people play RPGs for different reasons. If this was ONLY a social RP-type RPG I dont think there would be a very big user base. Just my opinion.
Nikodemus: your response is somewhat hard to follow. Alot of the points you raised dont seem consistent with RPG play. Extinction of monsters? WTF - I can see that having some run away or not always spawn in the same place would be a good feature though.
I am not trying to whine, I am trying to play a game. I have questions and came to a forum that was setup to facilitate communications. I guess I hit a sore spot and for that I am sorry.
Crunk
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Originally posted by Crunk
Nikodemus: your response is somewhat hard to follow. Alot of the points you raised dont seem consistent with RPG play. Extinction of monsters? WTF - I can see that having some run away or not always spawn in the same place would be a good feature though.
Might be, because when i think about playing roleplaying game, I base things on real life where these are put in logical order. When roleplaying, we shouldn\'t think about how things are programmed and done, but how truly they look like. If monsters would appear without a reason from thin air, (how it was programmed) then there is no way they will extinct. But if we think about this as we should, it is imagine all the process the animals born, grow, feed, then we will see that if will be hunted in to big number, they will extinct.
Of course nobody is thinking about this, because the game economy would crash instantly....
maybe we should?
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Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?
The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.
Demarthl isn\'t a dev, so don\'t take his harsh attitude as that of the development team. :)
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I would be FIRST in line to do ANY working quest, but I have yet to find one that worked. I agree, quests should have a rather high priority.
I do have to \"change\" my thinking so to speak, I am SO used to testing a game that WILL be charging...usually 30 to 60 dollars for the game and from 5 to 25 dollars a month for monthly fee. SO when I test...I normally base my opinions on this fact. It is HARD to switch the mental gears to think about a game as FREE (Heck even \"The Realm charges a monthly, and their players online NEVER breaks 1200.)
Plus, from what more than one person, on the forum and in game have said, this game is more like a LATE Alpha/early beta...and truly I normally test the bugs out, not testing the EARLY stuff...SO...this is a valuable learning experience.
One thing that the devs, and most of the \"old school\" PS testers need to realize is that ALOT of the people that frequent \"open betas\" see them as a \"free trial\" of a mostly finished game. SO...you are going to get ALOT of kids (some as young as 11) and alot of people that wouldn\'t know role play if it were a truck and ran them over. These people are the reason that I NEVER mind having to go through a beta selection process. In the process, the selectors weed out the \"Players\" and find the \"testers\".
I honestly LOVE the concept of having a say in the developement, and regret the fact that my artwork looks too much like my sons (five years old, LOL) to be able to contribute much. BUT I will help with ideas, and cheer on those that DO have the tallent (seems from the Fan art section of the forum that there are quite a few around here with Significant tallent).
I try to not monopolize spawns, only there as long as I need them for one purpose. And for the person that said I was power leveling...Hmm sorry, two levels in sword, half a level in axe and a quarter of an inch into the starting levels of strength and endurance does NOT qualify for power leveling, that would be a \"so-so\" start. And I try to get high enough level before the end of a beta that I can test and bug report on as MUCH of the game as I possibly can. I take testing SERIOUSLY.
Much of tonight I am devoting to exploring, the sewers, the dungeon, and maybe find the arena (nope...haven\'t found it yet), and possibly get to the next city. I think having a simple N S E W compass would work for me, I don\'t NEED a player/mob finder type compass, it would help if I knew which way I was facing.
It seems to me that the old schoolers are tired of listening to newbies, I would sugest that they take a vacation from the forums to allow new players/testers freedom of speach. What you see as WHINING...is another players method of trying to get through their point, if you don\'t like it...please try out the ignore poster feature (most forums have it).
Originally posted by Nikodemus
First of all, why people are talking so often that the monsters arent giving them this what they want? (it is - fortune so that they will be able to buy everythink and bost every skill in one day)
Why won\'t they ask for the so buggy quest to be fixed and made in better and more player friendly way?
And if they have to ask about the monsters, why I don\'t I see questions that the monsters always spawn in the same place and not moving around so that you will find them always in the same exact place.
Why don\'t they ask that the monsteras are so slow and even if all of the monsters shouldn\'t be faster then them, why some (like rat) aren\'t?
Why won\'t the rat run away when it see some few times bigger creature attacking them?
Finally, how people can ask to have more monsters to kill? Did they even ask themselves where do these creatures are coming from? Wouldn\'t it be logical that when some kind of animal is constantly killed, it will extinct?
When some people already see that there is not enough animals for them, maybe these are close to extinction?
I ask all to ask to themselves these questions before they will ask the devs for more monsters or more valuable loots.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?
The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.
Demarthl isn\'t a dev, so don\'t take his harsh attitude as that of the development team. :)
Oh... i saw Game Master and assumed he had something to do with dev. My bad.
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I would LOVE to see the sewers spawn in a more natural way. Rats wondering around looking for food would be INCREDIBLY immersive, and through a quest that rewards for a certain number of dead rats, maybe with a quest ONLY item that does NOT drop but goes to the quest givers \"quest journal\" to keep from having group conflicts (who gets the ONE quest item that dropped...this would discourage grouping if it was ONLY one item, but if five people grouped killed the rat and FIVE people ALL got the item...grouping would be HIGHLY encouraged), would also add ALOT to immersiveness.
I personally think that if quests are done well, they will HIGHLY ease the LOW monster spawn issue. Think about it, if a quest gave cash, maybe a Newbie (read as LOW quality, but it is better than punching the mob...a little better) weapon, some XP and maybe fame (the city you are in would be GLAD you are lowering the number of disease causing VERMIN, and would appreciate this, possibly eventually lowering you buy prices and SLIGHTLY...eventually raising your sell prices...a tiny bit.
And maybe if another NPC gave a quest to do something else...they could reward with some xp, a little bit of cash and maybe a lowest end healing potion (less than lowest store sold, but ok for a newbie).
I think the KEY is fixing quests and ballancing rewards to encourage players to focus on THEM and not mobs. Heck if quests were good enough, ALL of the rat farmers could group, get their training, some xp, a few eyes or pelts AND finish a few quests(which would reward with MORE xp, MORE cash and possible potions)...ALL in a FULL group (which would mean THREE spawns and 15 people would NOT be a tragedy, but would actually WORK).
I would say IF extinction starts to set in, even on vermin, the devs should have another mob with similar stats, difficulty, rewards etc to step in. Think about ecosystems for a second. Take for instance the Black Death and how it started, and eventually ended.
First off, fear of cats since they were RUMORED to be demonic familiars of DARK and EVIL witches *rolls eyes* the cats were rounded up in HUGE numbers in parts of Europe. The areas were more cats were killed were hardest hit by the Black death due to MUCH higer rat populations (rat fleas were the carries of the disease). Let\'s think about WHY this happened. Cats kill rats, rats carry fleas, fleas carry the plague. Kill fewer cats, cats kill more rats, fewer rats, fewer fleas, the outbreak dwindles.
Same thought can be carried to snakes, mice, and owls. If you kill off MOST of one, the population of one of the others spikes. For instance, kill all of the snakes, the Mice population spikes, and then...due to more food, so does the Owl population.
SO...I would say the Immersive thing to do on extinctions is have the mob that is related to that mob (is the food of that mob) increase in population. For instance, LARGE rats eat insects, SO...when there are fewer rats, the insects could mutate and grow, leaving a LARGE mutant bug to kill. Kill off TOO many of those, then the rats start having trouble getting enough food, and maybe even leave the sewers.
I think if the spawns are done logically instead of staticly that immersion factor would go THROUGH THE ROOF! As it stands, same mob, EXACT same spot, once every 15 to 20 seconds...that is NOT immersive in the least. Hard to role play that one, except MAYBE that there is a hole in the ground and the other rat can get through it until you kill the first one and strip the body (loot it).
I agree, if the extinction thing is NOT thought out and CAREFULLY planned/coded, then the economy can and WILL tank, which needless to say WILL hurt the game.
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Originally posted by Crunk
Nikodemus: your response is somewhat hard to follow. Alot of the points you raised dont seem consistent with RPG play. Extinction of monsters? WTF - I can see that having some run away or not always spawn in the same place would be a good feature though.
Might be, because when i think about playing roleplaying game, I base things on real life where these are put in logical order. When roleplaying, we shouldn\'t think about how things are programmed and done, but how truly they look like. If monsters would appear without a reason from thin air, (how it was programmed) then there is no way they will extinct. But if we think about this as we should, it is imagine all the process the animals born, grow, feed, then we will see that if will be hunted in to big number, they will extinct.
Of course nobody is thinking about this, because the game economy would crash instantly....
maybe we should?
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Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Moogie
Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?
The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.
Demarthl isn\'t a dev, so don\'t take his harsh attitude as that of the development team. :)
Oh... i saw Game Master and assumed he had something to do with dev. My bad.
Anyone with the rank \"Game Master\" on these forums has no influence with the dev team whatsoever, so no need to start thinking such things. :)
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Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.
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There are a few old schoolers that are determined to push role play. Those of us that are new can either bang our head against a brick wall and scream in forums or just go ahead and play our style.
I would like to see the older school posters/testers/whatever the heck be a tad more understanding and less harsh to newer posters. It is a tad tough to read the forums knowing that older schoolers have very likely taken your well thought out and phrased posts and ripped you a new one OR just closed the thread and screamed \"use search\" or something of the sort...when the thread that I replied to was in a sticky *groans*
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Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.
Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.
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Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
Okay, I\'m really sick of these oldbies telling people how they should be playing PlaneShift. It\'s none of your buisness whether people are pwoer-levelers or not! Stoping telling people how to think. Anyway, haven\'t the devs said they will add more loot items? I pretty sure they did.
have you considered the possibility that some oldbies and devs are sick of hearing complaints about not having tougher monsters and more spawn points.
And you are not told how to think, but you are advised(i admit sometimes quite harshly) on how to look at this game. You can play it as action oriented game but you won\'t have fun, cause it considered and designed to be a Role Playing Game.
I always thought that the main advantage of MMORPG over a Pen and Paper adventure is that when playing MMORPG you don\'t have to play a hero. I have never seen a PnP game where player charcters play blacksmiths and bartenders. That\'s why I am so excited about MMORPG i can play rpg without the need to save the world without the need to be a hero.
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In my AD&D days, I played...a brothel owner (well what else would a half elf, half siren play? Don\'t ask, the bouncer was half ogre half owlbear! The stage act was half bird, half something else. you could have called us a motley bunch).
I also played a ten year old halfing thief, a farmer npc (now THAT was fun, how to get them going in the right direction without giving away too much), a horse, a familar \"ice tiger\", an owl and a half dark elf half human. Most of my characters spent as much time in town as out. See the STORY is in town...can\'t find it in the woods, nope...you find it in town, over ale...ya sometimes. But I found as much over turnips and carrots as ale and mead. And the Juicy stuff, that was over hair cuts, or washing laundry. You want to know what the KING is doing...ask his maid...he doesn\'t even see her.
My Halfling thief grew up, found a halfing wife, found a Nice house in a calm settlement and opened up \"Ole Bill\'s sundries-everything the traveler needs for adventuring\" and turned into the DM\'s npc that opened up adventures...he let me play him.
Actually I found if you adjusted the math of PnP...then you didn\'t have to WORK so hard. Plus I tended to fudge and work with Dm\'s that did, we worked with a mana system NOT Gygax\'s magic (too weak). And yes, Sirens and owlbears were not in the player races, but sure was FUN.
OH and the Ogreowlbear...he was a mage. Knock and fly, you figure it out. (dm allowed it on strength, and yes, with fly...you took falling damage). He tried invizability(*Juhm places feathered hands over his eyes and mutters* you no see Juhm), but ended up going for sleep (*Juhm konks you on the head for five points blunt damage* Roll d4 *dm does not even look at rolled dice* you fail, you are asleep).
We also had a halfling thief with a tendancy to give back everything he took. LOL. \"Is this your dagger...you dropped it...thought you would want it back.\"
And we had a WELL played (very beat up) cavalier.
His catch phrase \"Ah HA...now I got you\" *painful sounding fight* \"Medic\" *cavlier falls unconcious* *Cleric runs forward*\"that\'s my cue\" *Mage casts a few spells as the druid, bard and theif distract the attacker. Attacker eventually dies, a few others in group are seriously injured...near death. Mage binds wounds, cleric and druid heals while the bard and thief make camp. Warrior being fast behind the cavalier lays unconcious as well while the thief browses his gear*.
The thing about PnP that many that didn\'t play it don\'t know is you got to know the PLAYER and the Character, and could love one and hate the other. Like the Cleric, sad little fella as a player, but MAN he shown in character. And the Warrior...well his character was important to the campaign, but the player was hateful and angry. He tended to sit in the room during game times, and run out and smoke during bathroom breaks, which ended up social times. I enjoyed the soda, pizza and bathroom breaks as much as the singing swords...vorpal bunnies (yes...the DM brought those in *rolls eyes* you killed it with a primative home made bomb the cleric found *groans*)
But admittedly this group was a \"Monty Hall\" group, all nearly gods, got their way alot, but DM was hard as nails, nearly killing us each battle. And we had as many puzzles as monsters. \"Ok, the hall LOOKS nice and clear,\" says the Mage. \"Let\'s send the Warrior in,\" says the thief. *mixed laughter and warrior grumbles* \"Ok ok, I know, figure it out fur foot.\" says the thief. That hall took longer than getting to the dungeon did, and thief tripped all of the magic traps, nearly died four times.
The difference between computer online and face to face is day and night. The familiarity, the warmth and true friendship is not online, sadly, as warm as it gets...it is over as soon as \"real life\" steps in...as it should be with any inanimate object (the computer). But with PnP, real life needs often were met by the play group as much as in game. I remember the thief got assigned to a ship in mid campaign (what a SAD day that was, well sad and HAPPY...he wanted that assignment, but how often do you get a thief that could almost pick pockets or locks in his sleep with cute furry feet and could COOK in real life and game, plus he was the bouncer in our afternoon game, I lost my Owlbear friend *cries*), the group helped him pack up and move to the ship. Well I cheered them on from the parking lot, NO girls in the rooms. (the group was in the Navy, except me, I am the bard\'s wife, and the Mage in the game. I learned two VERY important lessons. If it looks like a dragon and man mated...do NOT kill it, push it off the spelljammer. And a fireball on a wooden vessel is NOT a good idea. Thank goodness for call rain...and the druid), but I helped carry boxed from the door to the truck.
The PnP was CHEEP, and rather continual entertainment. Once you bought the books, the dice and a few reams of paper (ream is I think 500 sheets...maybe, I forget) and a large sheet of octagangal grid plastic and a dry erase marker and a few figures (not all the lead minis, best purple worm we EVER killed was a green ceramic worm from a gift box I got in high school and kept around, my ice tiger familar was a plastic cat I found in a gum ball machine), you were good to go. For around 200 bucks (spread over a group of six to ten, so NOT much each), you could have fun for years...literally.
Only thing I regret from those days was getting rid of all of it, if I only had my first edition monster manual and players manual *cries*.
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Meh, as i\'ve said in other posts I\'m working on it. If any of you would like to pay me ?50,000 a year to work on PS I\'ll drop out of school and you\'ll get your wishes granted quicker :P
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I\'ll say it again... There\'s no reason for rain in planeshift, the crying does well enough to keep the crops growing!
Look, a big problem is the newbies begging. Had one come up to me the other night. I told him to meet me in the tavren in a 30 min. I announced a concert, and a two nice people showed up to watch. I made the newbie \"sing for his supper\", feeding him lines to a drinking song, and he repeating it as if he was singing. I paid him 500 tria for his performance! Why do I bring this up? Look at what happened...
What was I doing for that 30 min I asked him to wait? Why, spawn killing tefs for money so I could help him! How did I get so strong to kill for money that fast? Powerleveling! And how did I give a newbie a welcome start to our world? Roleplaying!
Now, I\'m not tooting my own horn... but if I can make money, powerlevel, and roleplay all at the same time, then the only reason anyone else can\'t do it is becouse of choice! That means powerlevelers, stop and have a conversation! And roleplayers, go have an adventure, even if for only telling your friends at the tavren of a stupid move that got you bit by a rat and almost ended you up in the deathrealm!
Powerlevelers and roleplayers need to take a cue from each other. In the imortal words of Rodney King, can\'t we all just get along =).
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I don\'t have a problem with people powerleveling as long as they aren\'t spoiling the rp atmosphere in the process. You can powerlevel and roleplay at the same time with little effort. If people can powerlevel and only /say or /shout things which are in a rp context then great.
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Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.
As much as I understand where your coming from, please understand a few things.........You might have a strong point if the game was finished and didnt push players into things they might not otherwise do.....
Power leveling rats does not hurt rpg\'ers
One must obtain levels and items, by any means, in this case the ONLY means.
If anything the lack of depth in the game forcing players to camp certain spots ruins the gaming experience for some,
players are only playing with what they are presented, if that causes problems, then add more content,
Im almost 100% sure that once more things are added, power levelers wont be camping \"rats\" and causing problems for others to do the same type of leveling.
Its the lack of things to do causing the problems, not the players
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*hugs Dregan*
Yes, there has to be a way to get money into the game and encourage the young and way ward youth into a life of nights in the pub, and the joys of a nice bar wench.
But how can people reward role play...if they don\'t go out and *gasp* earn the money somehow.
*wonders if asking the devs for tria trees would even be entertained* Nah, I don\'t think they would buy into that.
Originally posted by Dregan Tepis
I\'ll say it again... There\'s no reason for rain in planeshift, the crying does well enough to keep the crops growing!
Look, a big problem is the newbies begging. Had one come up to me the other night. I told him to meet me in the tavren in a 30 min. I announced a concert, and a two nice people showed up to watch. I made the newbie \"sing for his supper\", feeding him lines to a drinking song, and he repeating it as if he was singing. I paid him 500 tria for his performance! Why do I bring this up? Look at what happened...
What was I doing for that 30 min I asked him to wait? Why, spawn killing tefs for money so I could help him! How did I get so strong to kill for money that fast? Powerleveling! And how did I give a newbie a welcome start to our world? Roleplaying!
Now, I\'m not tooting my own horn... but if I can make money, powerlevel, and roleplay all at the same time, then the only reason anyone else can\'t do it is becouse of choice! That means powerlevelers, stop and have a conversation! And roleplayers, go have an adventure, even if for only telling your friends at the tavren of a stupid move that got you bit by a rat and almost ended you up in the deathrealm!
Powerlevelers and roleplayers need to take a cue from each other. In the imortal words of Rodney King, can\'t we all just get along =).
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If there was some way of earning skills and cash for instance a mob a bit harder than a rat, with a little bit better xp/pp and loot. I am sure the rats would be last years news...LONG forgotten.
And the true role players, once they had a nice padded coin purse, would head to the plaza to tell their tales of a rat ten...no 20 meters tall ifin it was an inch. Or in the pub bounching a bar main on his knee (once the Sit function or bounce function gets in game), or watching the lady on the stage dance (again...another animation that wouldn\'t hurt the RPers). Or maybe he/she has a religous bend to them, they could preach in the square and try to \"convert\" the lost souls of *insert either atheist OR opposite faith here*. If they were convincing enough...they might earn a few trias \"for the cause\".
OR maybe a good game of tag could insue, you run around and call out \"your it\" then run away from your friend, when they catch you it is your turn to case them.
Originally posted by waa
Actually it is \"our\" business. PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game, meaning that you should play a role. I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.
As much as I understand where your coming from, please understand a few things.........You might have a strong point if the game was finished and didnt push players into things they might not otherwise do.....
Power leveling rats does not hurt rpg\'ers
One must obtain levels and items, by any means, in this case the ONLY means.
If anything the lack of depth in the game forcing players to camp certain spots ruins the gaming experience for some,
players are only playing with what they are presented, if that causes problems, then add more content,
Im almost 100% sure that once more things are added, power levelers wont be camping \"rats\" and causing problems for others to do the same type of leveling.
Its the lack of things to do causing the problems, not the players
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*blushes* Awe, shucks, Lyrah!
Well, in leu of the devs hard work on everything already, mabey the thing to do is to start playing our own financial system, and base the newbies in it. Mabey we could start making quests of our own. granted they wouldn\'t go in the quest log, but there are things like, oh, say imagination that don\'t require programing.
Try this. how about a scavenger hunt in words. Several people from a guild hide around the world, each having part of a message that someone in the plaza needs. Mabey like information for a guild war, so the powerlevelers are intrested too. First one back with the whole message wins!
This is just one idea, what we realy need is the old time roleplayers back. You know, the ones who say they have left because of the powerlevelers. If they are as good at roleplaying as they say they are, then there should be a ton of creative ideas on how to fix this. It should be easy for them to turn some of the new people into RP\'ers, just from thier enthusiam alone! Now if only someone could say something in the forums to goat them into coming back and trying again....
Hmmm, my work is done.
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some people aren\'t ready to come back yet, some are unwilling to ever come back and some refuse to until this wipe is past, they all have their reasons but don\'t judge them because they\'re not here to change things, whining on the forums isnt so goo d either im afraid, you want the community again? come on in the game and be part of it :D
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Oh, no judging meant at all, Demarthl. Sorry if it came accross like that. I know people have there reasons for what they choose to do in life, and I will not be one to step on that! I\'m just trying a little sarcastic fun to see if I can\'t give people reason to come back. If it was taken as anything more severe or hurtful, then I\'m sorry.
And yes, I do want the comunity of old I hear so much about when people start longing for the glory days. But I also welcome the new. And I want to help find ways to make the game better for us now. So much scorn between RP and PL (roleplayers and Powerlevelers) that just seems senseless. We are all here, lets all have fun. So if I came across as whining, I\'m once again sorry. I\'m just trying to through out new ideas, and see if they have any merit/support in the grand scheme of things. But you sound like you still have some enthusiasm. So if you like anything I ever suggest, come see me in game. Names the same. I\'ll be more than willing to try to make this a better experience for us all.
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Originally posted by Lyrah
Same thought can be carried to snakes, mice, and owls. If you kill off MOST of one, the population of one of the others spikes. For instance, kill all of the snakes, the Mice population spikes, and then...due to more food, so does the Owl population.
Would you describe here is described by the Lotka-Volterra equasion which models predator-prey relations.
I tried to set up a predator-prey relation system containing three species where population A was a small herbivor, B a small predator and C a large predator.
A was hunted by B and C, B was hunting A and hunted by C and C hunted both A and B. So the populations\' development was depended on a lot of dynamic factors... and I didn\'t manage to find a setting which tended towards a stable state. Most of the times the populations got extinct.
My point in telling you this is: It is very hard to model such a thing by hand. And it\'s getting tougher with more species.
BUT you can simply try to model you mobs in dynamic populations with some safe spawn places. That way the species can slowly return after a near extinction and reenter the eco system.
The good side for this approach is, that you can model a quite realistic eco system.
The down side is that you wont be able to fully control the system. You can twiddle with the rule sets for the populations until you get an eco system you like but you will probably never get the exact system you want.
I wrote some more detailed things down about creating an online world based on populations but its all in german.
If some of you are interested and able to read german I\'ll make those texts available again. They a written in a private wiki on a friends home server that is not running at the moment.
Maybe the devs like to browse trough it for them inspiration...
MC.
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MC the main reason that your calculations had troubles was chaos. Nature appears to have \"rules\" but when humans, with our mathematics tries to find a formula for these \"natural rules\" sometimes Nature throws a monkey wrench called Chaos into our system and *sound of machinery exploding and gears grinding and popping* things don\'t work mathematically like we see them working in reality.
For instance, with rabbits, owls, and eagle...to use your system rules (small herbie, small pred, large pred). The rabbits have a HUGE reproductive rate to support the other two species, plus the other two species DO eat other prey than just within the three species (owls eat rabbits, but are ten to 12: 1 better mouser/rat hunters than ferile cats, and eagles eat owls and fish and.... long list).
I understand the trouble with programming exinctions or near extinctions (thunder bird/pheonix for example), it is mathematical. The systems are TOO complex for even the STRONGEST Pay to Play games...not to mention PS. Some come reasonably close, but not quite (the one game I am thinking of the GM\'s program in the replacement of one mob type with its preditor type. it is hardly automatic).
And the error in your math is NOT in your logic, it was not in your intellegence level either...it is simply that trying to force nature into systems smaller than 100 species misses a few key elements. And I doubt that this game could handle the coding needed for such a complex preditor/prey system...heck I doubt EQ coding could take it!
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Originally posted by Kiva
Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Moogie
Originally posted by Crunk
Originally posted by Demarthl
or.
quit whining and be grateful you get to be part of this pre beta :| your power levelling is undergoing for nothing as there is a wipe due, it also says that in the server MOTD
Dev\'s are working on balancing issues and things will change, your constant whining about it does NOT speed this process, NOR does making yet another useless thread. good day to you
Way to completely blow off a legitimate question. Is this the attitude of all the devs or do some people actually want people to play their game?
The first few responses addressed my question quite nicely. To hear from you in this way is a big turnoff for me personaly.
Demarthl isn\'t a dev, so don\'t take his harsh attitude as that of the development team. :)
Oh... i saw Game Master and assumed he had something to do with dev. My bad.
Anyone with the rank \"Game Master\" on these forums has no influence with the dev team whatsoever, so no need to start thinking such things. :)
I just thought I might quote this for the sake of continuing to quote this :P
Anyway...
I don\'t feel the \"older\" people are necessarily telling the \"younger\" people what to do. They\'re simply trying to keep the game running as it was meant to be played. This means role-playing being at the top of the list.
From what I understand, there have always been a problem with newbies who are used to games like Diablo and RS, with fighting and leveling up and gaining wealth being the main focus of the game. They don\'t understand that this game is not about that. This problem was happening even in MB, I remember during the 1 or 2 weeks I played (before the game crashed completely on me), many newbs would join the game expecting combat. They were the ones who left right away...sometimes in anger even (unneeded anger at that). Things are still the same except we now have combat to offer them so they stay.
And as far as I\'m concerned, the newbies can whine as much as they want. They\'ll be the ones making fools of themselves acting like 2-year olds. (Btw, I\'m a newb for the record...really :P)
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I should point out that the devs work hard all the time to fix critical stuff.
The guy who does the quest engine is currently busy with a new job and has not had time to fix the quests.
The lack of loot is mostly due to the lack of a tool for content people to create loot. That should be addressed shortly.
As for the rest of us, we\'ve been closing many horrible bugs, just follow the tracker. eg. stamina running exploits have been closed.
Unfortunately development has been slow the last week or two for some reason - not so many devs are active at the moment.
I\'m fully with you guys on the need for fixed spawns and loot as the first priority, and I personally will be working on making that happen.
As for quests - it\'s a big task, and only one person can really do it, so don\'t hold your breath at the moment.
Chris
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I\'m tired of seeing these arguments about what RolePlaying is and how people should play a RolePlaying game.
When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.
It doesn\'t make any difference if you chose to stand around and emote and tell stories or if you explore dungeons and slay monsters, it\'s all RolePlaying.
I\'ve been popping in and out of PlaneShift for about a week. It doesn\'t strike me as the type of game where hardcore Roleplaying is going to be mainstay. First off, there is a complex system of skills and spells to be learned. This requires experience and money. Now, if you\'re somehow averted to killing monsters for experience and money (too hack \'n slash for you? I don\'t know) then you can quest for yours. Just don\'t state falsehoods like \"This is a RolePlaying game! Not a place to level up killing monsters\". I\'m pretty sure what you\'re thinking of is a chat room, because RPG\'s rely heavily on combat and leveling to establish your character. If it were a Social RPG as I\'ve heard suggested with no focus on combat then why implement a combat system or a training system?
I think everyone is confusing an Alpha release game with only half a handful of features implemented with a Social RPG.
Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.
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Originally posted by idorut
When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.
Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.
Long time RPer? of what, diablo? A real roleplaying game is about adventure, not just the killing of things to magically get better in aspects. Further more this is a MMO-RPG, that first part means it has to be a social RPG. if you want to jsut kill things there are plenty of other games out there.
Planeshift is not about killing things. Yes, this is an alpha- combat was impliment too early and will loose much of it\'s focus. You will not be able to train cooking after killing, as that makes no sense.
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Originally posted by chriskl
The lack of loot is mostly due to the lack of a tool for content people to create loot. That should be addressed shortly.
Actually, that tool is being activly developed (more than the client :P) and should hopefully be online pretty soon.
For the RP thing.
My personal wish would be if this game turned out RP friendly AND powerleveling-\"unhostil\"
I mean, you could RP an teffu slaughter right? :)
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Originally posted by Nikech
I guess power-leveling is understandable as long as it fits your char\'s RP background, but if you\'re an extreme power-leveler that camps the same rat spawn for hours, you might ruin the RP athmosphere for the other players too.
I never understood why it is less possible to roleplay just because you find a guy who is determined to kill any rat he finds, or why it\'s so hard to roleplay because you\'ve seen someone kill monsters. You guys make it sound as if seeing some guy who is killing stuff is going to traumatise you for life and make you unable to roleplay ever again. Get over it guys.
Long time RPer? of what, diablo? A real roleplaying game is about adventure, not just the killing of things to magically get better in aspects. Further more this is a MMO-RPG, that first part means it has to be a social RPG. if you want to jsut kill things there are plenty of other games out there.
Planeshift is not about killing things. Yes, this is an alpha- combat was impliment too early and will loose much of it\'s focus. You will not be able to train cooking after killing, as that makes no sense.
If I\'m not mistaken, a roleplaying game where you seek adventure is also about killing the monster that guards the treasure, and finding the big score. Is it not? What you\'re making an RPG out to be is some kind of kumbaya hippie game, and I can assure you that is definitely not what roleplaying is all about. The problem with want-to-be hardcore roleplayers (those who think we all need to sit around and sing campfire songs to be good roleplayers) is that they\'re not capable of accepting anyone else but themselves. Seeing someone who wants some action and some thrill in their online life doesn\'t end the world. It doesn\'t ruin any atmosphere unless you bring it up and start bitching about it. There is nothing in this world that ruins atmosphere more, than seeing a bunch of sad roleplayers bitching about how unfair the world is and how stupid powergamers are. Well boohoo, you\'re powergamers too, you just powergame roleplaying, whereas the others powergame the thrilling aspect of the game. Suck it up, stop whining about it and try learning to live with it because no matter how long, how much or how hard you cry about this, you\'ll never get it your way.
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Well personally, I understand that there will always be roleplayers and powerlevelers, I\'m not necessarily complaining about that.
Here\'s what I truely think have been giving powerlevers a bad name:
1. The constant challenging to duel in the plaza etc. This is like saying \"Look what I\'ve developed from powerleveling. Look at how much better I am than you.\" It\'s simply rather annoying. I don\'t really like dueling myself. I\'ve dueled twice since mid-March.
2. When your average person is fighting say...teffys. Sometimes a hardcore powerleveler will come in and literally steal the teffy. I mean....that\'s rather disturbing. At least have some respect lol.
I\'m sure there\'s other reasons too.
To be honest, I consider myself really to be 50/50 with rp and pl, I need the variety. I think that once other concepts are implemented into the game, such as crafting, alchemy, etc, we\'ll see a few less powerlevers, since some of them will move into new professions. Just right now, fighting and mining are the only two ways you can make money (well, there are possibly one of two others through roleplaying you could do such as bartending but still), so if you want to make money it\'s really one or the other, roleplaying or not.
Edit: Just for the record, my first post in this thread is based more towards those who keep wanting to see more trias in the game through combat, which I am againt quite frankly. Realistically speaking, as if monsters are going to drop trias in the first place. What are they doing with the trias? Drinking at the Kada-El behind our backs?
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One of the most frustrating things about powerlevellers is that they then like to pretend that they are RPing, but don\'t take into account that RP-wise they shouldn\'t be able to defeat the people they can skill-wise. Of course, I\'m not going to name names... *coughtasercough* :D :D :D
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My experience has been that the players are moving more towards RP lately. I think this is because pl-ing is sort of a waste of time right now. This could be a good chance for us to define the culture around here as a strong rp one.
After the wipe, it will likely only be rp-ers at first. We could use this time to establish some basic context, like no dueling in the plaza. I find that incredibly annoying.
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How do you enforce that, though?
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Well, enforcement is the tough bit. There are two options that I can think of.
1. Make the culture overwhelmingly against fighting in the plaza. Those of us who care could stand around and talk cordially to them and ask them to stop doing it. Using /tell you could GET RIGHT INSIDE THEIR HEADS. Of course, this takes work and is not fun.
2. (My way) I like to ridicule people. I set accept duel > never and simply berate the duelers with insults. This just makes it un-fun for them.
Other than that, I don\'t know.
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The Powerlevelers aren\'t the real problems, it\'s the roleplayer idiots who are, I won\'t mention any names *coughsarrowcough*, but the following episode once took place in the tavern (it may not be exact, since this happened some time ago).
An enkidukai once \"woke up\" after saying he had slept on top of the barrels behind the bar, he talked about how he must\'ve killed a kran since his swords were all dented and bent, but couldn\'t remember anything. I soon said something about him having had too much to drink, and he began speaking to me with my name.
when I asked him how he knew it he told me \"it was above my head\" so i kept telling him that he must be drunk, in the end he said that he would kill me for saying he was drunk (of course in a tavern full of witnessess and the hydlaa guard just outside), his description is something along the lines of \"a well known murderer\" if he was well known, wouldn\'t he get imprisoned then?
my point is, the powerlevelers only mind their own business, not disturbing rp, the rping idiots (a roleplaying idiot can always be recognized if he/she/it greets a person with his name, despite never having met him/her/it) and the weirdos (bouncers and people who run around with weapons in tavern despite being told not to as well as people walking around saying things like \"where can i get tria/xp/quests/equipment?\") are the real problem, it is them that are the real threat to rping while pl:ers only mind their own levels.
Edit: deactivated smilies
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i admit, im kinda powerlevelerish
only when more sword skill comes out
but i mainly RP with firends
*coughwenelaircough*
wow, there is a virus today -.-
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I sort of take the name-over-the-head thing as Rping, though. We are confined to the physics of PlaneShift. That means (a) there are no vampires and (b) everyone wears nametags. Maybe it\'s custom, like wearing a family crest.
So he knows your name and that\'s not your idea of a fantasy setting. Okay, but then where are the dragons? (Oooh! I\'ll get banned!). The point is, that is the world we inhabit. The whole \"known murderer\" thing is kind of silly, since there are no murderers, only duelists. He might have a rep for being kind of mean, but you can\'t kill anyone that doesn\'t want to be killed.
That\'s why the Beggars aren\'t really pickpockets right now, because you can\'t steal. All we can do is tell jokes and entertain, then hopefully get you to spend some tria on us.
The p-l bring you out of the experience, and that\'s annoying. Also, it does ruin the atmosphere when everyone is duelling in the plaza. But there is NO city guard, so noone will get arrested. Again, that\'s the physics of the world we inhabit.
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Originally posted by zabeal
Originally posted by idorut
When you assume the identity of a character in a game you are automatically Role Playing.
Just a thought from a long time RPG\'er who\'d rather kill and loot monsters than stand around and sing campfire songs.
Long time RPer? of what, diablo? A real roleplaying game is about adventure, not just the killing of things to magically get better in aspects. Further more this is a MMO-RPG, that first part means it has to be a social RPG. if you want to jsut kill things there are plenty of other games out there.
Planeshift is not about killing things. Yes, this is an alpha- combat was impliment too early and will loose much of it\'s focus. You will not be able to train cooking after killing, as that makes no sense.
Never played Diablo in my life. Not because I think I\'m \"too good for it\" like you obviously do. I\'ve been playing MUDs for around 15 years now. (that\'s a multi-user dungeon in case you didn\'t know). You can\'t honestly believe that the \"MM\" in \"MM\"ORPG means that you\'re supposed to stand around emoting all day and snub anyone who raises their sword in battle? The MM stands for Massive Multi Player. That means you\'ll be playing with a large amount of people Online. It doesn\'t mean it\'s purely Social. You can play an MMORPG alongside thousands of other people, but it doesn\'t mean you have to socialize with them.
PlaneShift is supposed to be about having the OPTION to become a famous hero, known for slaying monsters and whatnot. You also have the option of become a merchant, a smith, specializing in armorcraft, weaponcraft or what have you.
RIGHT NOW there is not much to do in the game besides kill monsters, mine, or stand around emoting. I understand those of you who are not so new to the game have probably grown tired of killing rat upon rat upon rat or chipping away mindlessly at a hunk of rock and would rather socialize with people whom you\'ve connected with in the game.
That\'s fine!! Just don\'t look down your noses at those of us who have just arrived and would like to experience what THE GAME, not the community, has to offer.
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\"MUD\" doesn\'t even have any reference to \"RP\" in it\'s name! In fact, MUDs are textual Diabolo-like games. That doesn\'t make you any more of a roleplayer than playing an FPS does!
As for the \"socialising\" aspect... you are aware that the socialising is to be done as your char, not yourself? Also, if you\'re slaying rats, it\'s supposed to be your char, not yourself controlling a virtual model?
You are right, when playing a game that involves a virtual reality, even a business sim, you assume the role of a char, but most people don\'t see the implication that has on the way way you should behave ingame.
Therefore, when you are in PS, you are living in the world of Yliakum, and therefore supposed to act appropriately. I don\'t think there ever was any famous anything who killed for hours on end without speaking a word, then sleeping, eating, and killing more things...
Anyway, it is perfectly fine with me if you explore the game. After all, we\'re still testing it. However, also don\'t forget that you\'re supposed to be in-character, since while the fighting in PS is optional, the RP is not, OK?
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The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games. They are. The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.
Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics. Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers. Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.
A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.
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Originally posted by idorut
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.
Was I doing that? *re-reads post* No, I wasn\'t, just as I expected. I was comparing MUDs to Diabolo, which is a difference unless you are saying that Diabolo is an FPS...
Originally posted by idorut
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games. They are. The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.
Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.
Well, to be fair, it must be said that the first PnP RPGs weren\'t so much about RP, either. I even feel that the actual RP genre emerged after the first RPGs, which IMO were more H&S than anything else.
Originally posted by idorut
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics. Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers. Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.
A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.
Hmm, I never said that PS is purely social, and also noone else did AFAICS. Furthermore, noone said that there is no H&S aspect in PS, I honestly don\'t see where you get that from. I think that combat has been implemented way too early, though. Also, there are no classes in PS.
PS tries to balance social RPG with skill-basedness. Therefore, it is expected that players do both, at least to some extent and as good as the implementation allows. Someone who always RPs to be a famous and unbeaten swordsman must be at least average skill-wise, at least if the skill is functional.
Likewise, someone who grinds for hours on end is supposed to RP good reasons to do so, and, most importantly, interact with others in the way the character realistically would, and to also give the character a life. As I said, the char will do things besides fighting. And when you ask another player, ask as your char, not as the player. That\'s a big difference.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by idorut
The fact that you compare a MUD to a first person shooter only makes me aware that you have never played a MUD and therefore have no knowledge of the genre.
Was I doing that? *re-reads post* No, I wasn\'t, just as I expected. I was comparing MUDs to Diabolo, which is a difference unless you are saying that Diabolo is an FPS...
Originally posted by idorut
While it\'s true that there is no \"RP\" in the genre name MUD, doesn\'t mean they aren\'t essentially roleplaying games. They are. The first MUDs were modeled closely after Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper RPGs.
Not all MUDs enforce RolePlaying, but it is always encouraged.
Well, to be fair, it must be said that the first PnP RPGs weren\'t so much about RP, either. I even feel that the actual RP genre emerged after the first RPGs, which IMO were more H&S than anything else.
Originally posted by idorut
Try as you may to convince me otherwise, but PlaneShift does exhibit some hack n slash characteristics. Judging from the \"About Planeshift\" section of the website, the developers are trying to cater to both types of RPGers. Those who want to focus on combat and those who don\'t.
A purely social RPG wouldn\'t implement experience, skills, classes, or combat since they are not meant to be part of the gameplay in the first place.
Hmm, I never said that PS is purely social, and also noone else did AFAICS. Furthermore, noone said that there is no H&S aspect in PS, I honestly don\'t see where you get that from. I think that combat has been implemented way too early, though. Also, there are no classes in PS.
PS tries to balance social RPG with skill-basedness. Therefore, it is expected that players do both, at least to some extent and as good as the implementation allows. Someone who always RPs to be a famous and unbeaten swordsman must be at least average skill-wise, at least if the skill is functional.
Likewise, someone who grinds for hours on end is supposed to RP good reasons to do so, and, most importantly, interact with others in the way the character realistically would, and to also give the character a life. As I said, the char will do things besides fighting. And when you ask another player, ask as your char, not as the player. That\'s a big difference.
Kind of interesting that you say there are no classes in PlaneShift. Knights, Thieves, Mages, Craftsmen? Are those not classes? Perhaps they haven\'t been fully implemented yet but that doesn\'t mean they aren\'t part of the game.
Go back and read through this thread again, you\'ll see plenty of people saying \"the point of the game is not to kill monsters, yadda yadda, stop complaining about not having any money and just play the game, etc\" Well, as far as I\'ve seen, there is no way to train your skills without money, and no way to get money other than killing monsters.
I suppose you could try mining, but first you have to kill some monsters to train your mining skill so that it actually works.
For the record... I\'d say that whoever developed the first RPGs probably knows a lot more about the way they\'re supposed to be played than you do. So you claim the pen and paper style RPGs were more hack and slash than storytelling. Maybe that says something about the real focus of a Role Playing game, eh?
I never said that building your character\'s story life in the game isn\'t a major aspect of a roleplaying game. I was simply defending those who prefer combat over emoting and chatting. After all, what can you RP if all your character does is sit around all day? You\'d be the most boring character in the world, that\'s for sure.
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Originally posted by idorut
Kind of interesting that you say there are no classes in PlaneShift. Knights, Thieves, Mages, Craftsmen? Are those not classes? Perhaps they haven\'t been fully implemented yet but that doesn\'t mean they aren\'t part of the game.
Have you seen any hint of a class in PS? I haven\'t. A class basically limits your char to a profession by penalising some things (to the point of not being available at all) and easing others. This very clearly is not part of PS, and also never will be. So no, there are no classes in PS. There are \"paths\", but these are nowhere near classes. They\'re just a quick way of doing the char creation to end up with results that will do for most people.
Originally posted by idorut
Go back and read through this thread again, you\'ll see plenty of people saying \"the point of the game is not to kill monsters, yadda yadda, stop complaining about not having any money and just play the game, etc\" Well, as far as I\'ve seen, there is no way to train your skills without money, and no way to get money other than killing monsters.
I suppose you could try mining, but first you have to kill some monsters to train your mining skill so that it actually works.
I noticed. Yet they\'re right. The point of PS is not killing things. And they\'re also right in asking you to stop complaining about not having money, because what would you do with money, anyway? Exactly, buy a weapon.
Yes, there is mining, and you can start with a skill in it right from the char creation.
You\'d simply need the 100 tria for a pick, which can be gotten from quests.
Speaking of quests: they don\'t work ATM. Bugs. As you hopefully know, PS is alpha software, and thus there are bugs and most things are missing.
What you are doing is to judge the envisioned product by what is in the alpha version, which is like judging a finished house by it\'s carcass, or a person by their skills when they were 5 years of age. :rolleyes:
There is a huge difference between what PS is envisioned and trying to become, and what\'s already implemented.
Originally posted by idorut
For the record... I\'d say that whoever developed the first RPGs probably knows a lot more about the way they\'re supposed to be played than you do. So you claim the pen and paper style RPGs were more hack and slash than storytelling. Maybe that says something about the real focus of a Role Playing game, eh?
No, because if this was true, they wouldn\'t have changed, eh? However, they have, and some quite remarkably. You can see this by the way the plots of the campaigns have evolved. While in the first campaigns there were plenty of encounters that simply didn\'t make any sense at all (like you tear down a wall and find two orcs in a room that was sealed for centuries, alive and eager to attack you (not dead and eager to get out!)), while today cities have an economy, politics and relations to each other, and the entire world / overall plot is coherent and consistent with the campaigns.
Summarising, I think they were simply lacking experience and a base to build from - both had to be created first.
Originally posted by idorut
I never said that building your character\'s story life in the game isn\'t a major aspect of a roleplaying game. I was simply defending those who prefer combat over emoting and chatting. After all, what can you RP if all your character does is sit around all day? You\'d be the most boring character in the world, that\'s for sure.
In that case we seem to be in agreement.
However, the char could still be a politician or priest. After all, what else do their RL counterparts ever do besides emoting and chatting? Same for bards, fortune-tellers and others, so there\'s a number of possibilities there which cannot satisfactorily be covered by a skill system.
Edit: As for inhibiting duelling in the plaza: until the NPC guard AI is smart enough to take that job, IMNSHO the job falls to either the GMs or the engine. The GMs could freeze / ban offending players for some RL minutes, or the engine could simply turn on auto decline / disable the challenge command for the hydlaa zone, though the latter would remove the option to have legitimate (i.e. RP) duels in back-alleys.
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Originally posted by Niavard
The Powerlevelers aren\'t the real problems, it\'s the roleplayer idiots who are, I won\'t mention any names *coughsarrowcough*, but the following episode once took place in the tavern (it may not be exact, since this happened some time ago).....
Yes, I agree that Sarrow\'s character is not a very believable character. I\'ve seen him do a fair number of...odd things myself, but at least he\'s doing something towards roleplaying.
It\'s a lot better in my opinion than the dark side of powerleveling where you\'ll be killing rats or teffys and then someone comes in and attempts to steal your killing spot, especially in the arena.
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I noticed. Yet they\'re right. The point of PS is not killing things. And they\'re also right in asking you to stop complaining about not having money, because what would you do with money, anyway? Exactly, buy a weapon.
I have never complained about not having money, thanks very much. I was referring to what the post is originally about (someone asking where/how to get more money, since it\'s needed to TRAIN YOUR SKILLS)
And if you want your character to be a warrior of sorts then YES IT IS about killing things. The whole point I\'m trying to argue is that ROLEPLAYING is NOT LIMITED TO STANDING AROUND TALKING. It\'s about doing whatever the hell you want to.
Yes, there is mining, and you can start with a skill in it right from the char creation.
You\'d simply need the 100 tria for a pick, which can be gotten from quests.
Speaking of quests: they don\'t work ATM. Bugs. As you hopefully know, PS is alpha software, and thus there are bugs and most things are missing.
What you are doing is to judge the envisioned product by what is in the alpha version, which is like judging a finished house by it\'s carcass, or a person by their skills when they were 5 years of age. :rolleyes:
There is a huge difference between what PS is envisioned and trying to become, and what\'s already implemented.
Wow thanks for repeating what I said in a previous post. I\'m fully aware that most of the features of the game haven\'t been implemented yet. Why don\'t you tell that to whoever posted previously that if monsters were meant to be dropping more loot then they would be already.
And as far as quests.. How can you even put that on the table as a viable option if they aren\'t working at the moment? Seems kind of impossible to me to complete a quest that\'s broken or missing entirely.
Why can\'t the players who are for whatever reason \"against\" combat just leave the players who aren\'t alone? Nobody is better than anyone else based on their style of playing. If you chose to create a character that\'s unskilled in everything but vocal arts then so be it! But don\'t bash the people who enjoy a good adventure and making their character stronger.
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Originally posted by idorut
Never played Diablo in my life. Not because I think I\'m \"too good for it\" like you obviously do. I\'ve been playing MUDs for around 15 years now. (that\'s a multi-user dungeon in case you didn\'t know). You can\'t honestly believe that the \"MM\" in \"MM\"ORPG means that you\'re supposed to stand around emoting all day and snub anyone who raises their sword in battle? The MM stands for Massive Multi Player. That means you\'ll be playing with a large amount of people Online. It doesn\'t mean it\'s purely Social. You can play an MMORPG alongside thousands of other people, but it doesn\'t mean you have to socialize with them.
You couldn\'t have been further from what I was saying. I\'ve played diablo, and liked it. You should play it to- and recognize that it is a single player game, where you are largely rewarded for going around killing things. Of course, you can play it online of course, but that\'s another story. Good that you\'ve plaid muds, but they are as diverse as any other context of a game- the majority of MUDs are sadly as Seytra put them. However, then you find the rare games like Lambda Moo which are not about meeting new people and killing them.
What I don\'t understand is you ignoring other players. If you don\'t even have the pretenses of playing with others, then why play an online game? You seem to have some odd expectations of others here.
And if you want your character to be a warrior of sorts then YES IT IS about killing things. The whole point I\'m trying to argue is that ROLEPLAYING is NOT LIMITED TO STANDING AROUND TALKING. It\'s about doing whatever the hell you want to.
You seem to be the one insisting that people are standing around... where did you see this, anyways? Anyways, a warrior is not someone who kills things on a daily basia- a warrior is someone who prepares their whole life for war on the off chance they might live to see it. Professional soldiors rarely ever kill anything, and the fact that things come back to life in a gmae don\'t mean you have to kill them.
Wow thanks for repeating what I said in a previous post. I\'m fully aware that most of the features of the game haven\'t been implemented yet. Why don\'t you tell that to whoever posted previously that if monsters were meant to be dropping more loot then they would be already.
And as far as quests.. How can you even put that on the table as a viable option if they aren\'t working at the moment? Seems kind of impossible to me to complete a quest that\'s broken or missing entirely.
Again, you seem to have odd expectaions about what is possible, and what will be possible.
Why can\'t the players who are for whatever reason \"against\" combat just leave the players who aren\'t alone? Nobody is better than anyone else based on their style of playing. If you chose to create a character that\'s unskilled in everything but vocal arts then so be it! But don\'t bash the people who enjoy a good adventure and making their character stronger.
I don\'t understand your attacks here. Who specificaly picked you out and said they were better than you? Who even said you had a different style of playing? I didn\'t see anyone saying that having a stronger charactor was a bad thing, I\'m sorry if someone was giving you taht impression.
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People generally confuse being nice and talkative with rp-ing. But that\'s a huge misunderstanding, a person can rp a silent rude character, and yes, that\'s an add-in to a community. Just play whatever character you are in real life, or power-level if thats all you want to do. Saying power-leveling-only is not rp is just a nonsense. The only criteria of rp-ing is taking up a consistent role in the given fantasy world. If you want, be rude, but dont say WTF, say: wretched heap of hovels (and not WHOH). If you dont wanna react or answer to others, then don\'t. But if you do, watch out to be consistent. And yes don\'t call characters by name, if you never met them before. It doesnt matter whether there are dragons or not, you cannot outbalance unimplemented features. There are no dragons, thats all! Sit and wait till they\'ll be implemented. Or make rumors, maybe the devs will implement something based on your rumors... And even if there are only rats who drop loot, it\'s still fun killing them. Doesnt obliege you to do something else. Whoever donot comprehend this are those who are quickly getting bored from the lack of features. But even if the devs include only 1 moster/month, that still should be a motivation for those who believe in the future of PS.
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There will be no dragons in PS, if I\'m to understand correctly. The point is: the physics of this world allow us to know each others names. Use it, it\'s part of the game. If you are referring to their real names, that\'s different.
I like to work within the world I\'m given. Part of that is the name tag custom. You have the option of turning it off for yourself if you like, but if I meet you, I\'m going to use that information. Should I just rely on remembering you because you\'re th guy with the tunic and the blond hair? I don\'t think so. This is like arguing that you can\'t rp and use /tell. How do you explain that? It\'s used all the time. Accept it as part of the physics of the world. Big deal, it\'s neither Medieval Europe nor Middle Earth. Does it have to be?
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Hmm, maybe you misunderstand. What I say, is that you cant say: Hi Bitula Sonka, how do you do, without first asking my name. Sure, after you\'ve asked it, you can call me this way until you die (or the wipe). On the other hand I donot have the right to call myself on other name (if label is on), unless I\'m disguising myself within rp. Now this is a minimal requierement. If one is just lazy to ask one\'s name, he can still talk without making reference to it. /tell, /say etc are part of rp tools, these are not seen by the reciever, so nothing wrong here. These, the console window itself and other features are technikal features, they donot conflict with rp. \"Where can I buy equipment\" is rp, while \"How do I buy (technically) an equipment\" is not.
BTW: I think that rping the wipe is a nonsense. Why should a technical error be incorporated into the world. Why just not forget it, and start from beginning. Soooooooo nonsense. It\'s like because of the quests don\'t work, we would make up that the Gods sent a \"Ray of Forgetting Quests\" onto those who have one. LOL.
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There will be no dragons in PS, if I\'m to understand correctly
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Lol, how do you know that Dragons won\'t be implemented in for example 10 years. Is it a rule or what? Or part of the story: like gods forbid Dragons to exist? Or maybe a philosophy: Dragons cannot exists, like lightspeed can never be exceeded.
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I agree with bitula on this one. We don\'t know what\'s going to happen in even 1 year from now. All you can do is speculate.
The way I see the name tags...they are their because without them everyone will look the same making it hard to tell who is who. This doesn\'t mean you cannot pretend they\'re not there when you first meet a person. If I see you on the street in real life I don\'t know your name until I ask. Why can\'t that happen in this game if you are a roleplayer?
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/me yawns and points at Seytra and Zabeal.
I\'m with them.
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Originally posted by Aiselyn
I agree with bitula on this one. We don\'t know what\'s going to happen in even 1 year from now. All you can do is speculate.
Well, the devs have said they don\'t want dragons. Now if the majority of them leaves and are replaced by some who insist on having dragons, then it might be that Talad can be convinced, but I hope this will never happen.
I like dragons, but I don\'t see why PS would need them at all. They\'re so overused, just like orcs, and IMNSHO it would be detrimental to PS to include more unoriginal and overused things than absolutely necessary.
Originally posted by Aiselyn
The way I see the name tags...they are their because without them everyone will look the same making it hard to tell who is who. This doesn\'t mean you cannot pretend they\'re not there when you first meet a person. If I see you on the street in real life I don\'t know your name until I ask. Why can\'t that happen in this game if you are a roleplayer?
Exactly. The name tag is to make up for the limitation of the system: you cannot distinguish a person by it\'s look, as is possible IRL. Therefore, you need the name tag to make up for that. It\'s not part of the world (the name is, though). If it were, then the limited models and identical looks would also be part of the world.
Also, yes, being nice and talkative isn\'t the only way to RP. However, whatever you RP, it must be consitent and believable. Being a rude person who barely talks is fine, but still they must interact with others occasionally.
And I also think the wipe, or in fact, any bugs or game features, should not be RPd at all. They are not part of the world, they\'re part of the interface to the world.
For RP, the world already is like it is envisaged to become when fully implemented. For RP, you can already travel to all eight levels and the stone labyrinhs. For RP, the unimplemented races / genders are already there, and have been for ages. The missing models / rules are, again, part of the interface, not of the world.
Oh, and RP is not about doing whatever you please. It is about picking whatever role you please from the ones that fit the setting, and then consistently play it in a believable and meaningful way, within the rules.
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Originally posted by Seytra
And I also think the wipe, or in fact, any bugs or game features, should not be RPd at all. They are not part of the world, they\'re part of the interface to the world.
For RP, the world already is like it is envisaged to become when fully implemented. For RP, you can already travel to all eight levels and the stone labyrinhs. For RP, the unimplemented races / genders are already there, and have been for ages. The missing models / rules are, again, part of the interface, not of the world.
I have to agree with that. Although I do, once in a while, stoop to discuss something about how even though I\'m a Lemur I look an awful lot like an Ylian, every time I do it seems like the RP atmosphere has been cheapened or abused somehow.
Seytra, why is it that I don\'t see you in-game?
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Originally posted by Seytra
Also, yes, being nice and talkative isn\'t the only way to RP. However, whatever you RP, it must be consitent and believable. Being a rude person who barely talks is fine, but still they must interact with others occasionally.
I might actually create a more shadow-like character at some point, just for a little fun. ;)
But I agree, and to add to that, everyone has a reason for the way they act. So if you are a rude person in the game, it helps to also know why are you as rude as you are. What kind of histroy do you have to make your character they way he is. I think it is so much easier once you have planned that part out rather than just be rude. It\'s just that much more real.
Back to Sarrow, I picture his character right now as being strong on the outside but weak on the inside. He\'s hiding something. Something that troubles him. Something he doesn\'t want anyone to know about. He\'s scared to show it. This would explain why he gets sudden mood swings (or maybe he\'s pregnant but we won\'t get into that :P).
...That\'s my take on him anyway. ;)
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I\'d say Sarrow is more like a purposely annoying non-RPer trying to relive the Cabal glory days.
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Probably, but it doesn\'t hurt to try and come up with something anyway to make sense of it, not that he really makes sense anyway.
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Originally posted by Phinehas
I have to agree with that. Although I do, once in a while, stoop to discuss something about how even though I\'m a Lemur I look an awful lot like an Ylian, every time I do it seems like the RP atmosphere has been cheapened or abused somehow.
Aye. That\'s why I take great effort to distinguish OOC from IC, by either prefixing OOC with \"OOC:\" or putting it in brackets, unless everyone has agreed on pure OOC for the time being.
Originally posted by Phinehas
Seytra, why is it that I don\'t see you in-game?
I\'m not called Seytra ingame. :)