PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lyrah on April 06, 2005, 09:36:28 am
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Could older players/posters try to be a tad nicer to newer players/posters in the forums as well in game. It is REALLY hard to take testing seriously when either in forums or in game you get insulted, slammed, flammed or your thoughts rejected outright before you open your mouth just because your post count is not in the millions.
Guys, I am not sure you are this way ALL the time, but the tone of the game and forums against new players is starting to HURT. I come to the forums, read stickies, read other posts and reply and end up more often than not getting FLAMED to bits by old schoolers or even a moderator. That tends to KILL incoming creativity and suggestions when EVERYONE posted ends up something like \"SHUT UP...THIS IS A ROLE PLAY GAME...NOT A HACK AND SLASH\" (tone IS coming across that harsh and hateful...intended or not.)
Try and read the posts and remember when YOU were new, and try to have a heart. For a community of a ROLE playing game, the forums are harshing than that of a PVP ONLY game.
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We arn\'t mean to new people, infact, we welcome them with open arms.
Now, if you mean STUPID people, thats a different stroy. :D
Edit: And most of the older people here have been (in some cases still are) stupid too. Heck, I was probably the biggest dumbass this forum has ever seen back in July.
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All I ask is that older posters reply with their hearts and NOT their poison daggers.
It is EASY to forget that their is a PERSON attatched to every post, every account, and that that person has feelings, emotions and when insulted, ignored or if they extend themselves by offering suggestions or input/replies to threads or stickies and they basically get replies that ammount to a Slap in the face...it does HURT.
It might do us ALL some good to read aloud your posts before you hit reply button. If you hear your tone sounding like an attack, might not want to send it.
Some of us don\'t use search for a SIMPLE reason, search RARELY works as intended. You put in Spells and get back ten threads on combat, two on bugs(not spell related in any way), and ONE...maybe on spells, but not the topic you had in mind.
So then you post your idea/suggestion/wish list/whateva the heck and then some odd school snipes you. It is like yall have your venom canned in a Notebook cut and paste!
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
We arn\'t mean to new people, infact, we welcome them with open arms.
Now, if you mean STUPID people, thats a different stroy. :D
Edit: And most of the older people here have been (in some cases still are) stupid too. Heck, I was probably the biggest dumbass this forum has ever seen back in July.
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Well I told you that it was a RPG and not a H&S but I never told you to shut up :)
As for the rest, most people here are very welcoming to new people who use the wonderful search button, of course there still is a few dumbass *looks down at his feet* but dont take it as a general rule.
But as a general rule, if you get flamed for no reason, PM the flamer to calm things down, dont start a fight in a post as many people do :)
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My feelings on search features of MOST forums is that they are worthless or worse than worthless. When I put in...as I have said before...the word...ONE word, wouldn\'t want to challenge it with two, three or parish the THOUGHT four words...the word \"spell\" (minus the quotes) I get varing degrees of threads that have nothing to do with spell/s or magic, but rather bugs(not about spells), stats(again not stats that relate to spells, just stats or skills), combat, or various stuff, and if I DIG through who knows how many threads...I MIGHT find ONE on the subject.
And should I care to REPLY to this searched post...I then get flamed about \"digging up a dead post\". SO...searching for the post that fits your desired discussion CAN shoot you in the foot. OH and some of the posts that I got flamed on where IN A STICKIy.
The tone I get, not from you, but MANY various old schoolers is that of a tired, worn out, menopausal NUN with PMS and a rather long yard stick.
\"Hush you fool\" *smack with the yard stick*
\"Use search\" *two or three smacks with yard stick
\"don\'t dig up dead posts that clearly should have died/been closed LONG ago\" (forget the fact that someone thought them as important enough to include them in a STICKY thread) *prolonged beating with yard stick* *yard stick breaks*
As I have said, I have a mostly tough skin. I am rather used to people either misunderstanding me or getting WAY angry with me. I don\'t understand WHY this happens, since my reading and writing skills (other than spelling) is rather high. But, it might be that I tend to stand my ground when right (in my opinion) and tend to speak my mind and the truth as I perceive it, asked for or NOT.
As to the role play or hack and slash...like it or NOT, once the word gets out about a FREE game and players decide to try it...you are going to get ANY and ALL kinds of players. And like it or NOT...there are more hack and slash, more UBBER Leet dood speakers and more powergamers than role players. You can either cut them out or get used to them. (I won\'t mention mosh pit PVPers, they will find out PVP is duel only and cry GIMP, WEAK COWARDS and log out, delete game and not bother us too much)
I tend to be an explorer, but I find the tools for such are SEVERELY lacking. No mapping skill, no compass and landscape that has neither mob spawns or distinctive characteristics so that one screen looks like a carbon copy of the last. All of this leads to getting LOST.
Originally posted by leji
Well I told you that it was a RPG and not a H&S but I never told you to shut up :)
As for the rest, most people here are very welcoming to new people who use the wonderful search button, of course there still is a few dumbass *looks down at his feet* but dont take it as a general rule.
But as a general rule, if you get flamed for no reason, PM the flamer to calm things down, dont start a fight in a post as many people do :)
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A few things I think on this issue:
First: There will always be jerks and bullies, life is full of them, and so, an mmorpg will be full of them too. Gotta just ignore them in game and on the forums.
Right, that said... the devs/gm\'s/mods do not mean to be coarse in their posts but they do get very stressed out so lets try not to add to their stress levels by whining/complaining (I am talking about ps in general, not specifically about this thread-please see my third point below). Constructive Criticism however is welcomed as we are testers of this game. The devs/mods/gm\'s probably read almost every post on every thread so please be considerate...they do all of this out of the goodness of their hearts and the creativity of their intellects, lets thank them more often for a job well done.
You guys do a great job!!! Keep up the excellent work!
Second: Relating to searching on the forums, every time I have seen somebody post on a topic that has been said a thousand times, but also said they searched and thought they should begin a new thread or resurrect an old one on the topic is not generally flamed for it. You can generally tell the difference between a caring considerate newbie asking about or for something and a noob who likes to complain.
Finally: People are emotional creatures...we\'re not vulcan... cough ahem cough. Um, so essentially people will post things on the forums that seem rude but aren\'t meant to be, or are misunderstood to mean something else. I have done this myself unfortunately. So reading the threads, what is being said \"must be taken with a grain of salt\" so to say.
Just my thoughts, off to watch the last Prime Minister\'s Questions of Tony Blair\'s regime...
Xirius
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I agree that people can get rather unfriendly on these forums here at times.
The thing is there are many members with questions here and only a very few people that have the answers. This results in those few that do know the answers getting fed up with answerring the same question over and over.
I agree on what you said about the search option .. it is good in theory but far from practical. There are too many posts and most of them have pretty random titles or names which makes the search rather fruitless.
Either way .. though the tolerance limits on this forum may be a bit on the low side it isn\'t all that bad.
As for ingame unpoliteness etc. there I would have to disagree. I think that the ingame planeshift community is one of the better ones out there. I am sure that will change as soon as the game gets more like an actual game. But for now because there isn\'t much gaming to do on PS most of the players are there for fun and I know many people who love to help out new players. If you are looking for players who will tell you secrets and show you all the little tricks then you won\'t find them no. But that is because most of us have had to find and discover everything ourselves. So we will let new people do the same .. it \'s much more rewarding ;)$
All in all the ingame players are rather friendly though .. of course there are always those exceptions.
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Really nothing more annoying than having huge long posts full of complaining against the old folks.
What you need to understand is that yes, we could be nicer, but after the 600th newbie starting a post on something that\'s already been discussed, well it gets annoying. Yes, perhaps each newbie does it only a couple of times, but the end result is that there are hundreds of them.
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Sorry, but just as the new people are prone to asking stupid questions...the older people are prone to being asses. We\'re human, we get pissed off just like everyone else does and no amount of asking people to \"play nice\" is really going to change that.
Sure all this stuff about constructive criticism, etc. etc. is nice and all. But be real, it is not going to happen and then sooner people realize that the better off they are.
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From my side the problem looks like this, a lot of new players comes from other MMORPG to Planeshift and try to add their thoughts from these other games, which are more or less RPG\'s, but have loads of elements which shouldn\'t be there. Because of that people tend to think in the way that they learned playing these games, which is wrong.
Like someone is asking for compas, when there is none because because people of Yliakulm havent invented one, or it is hard to construct it so it is very rare and not many can afford it.
Or people tend to give ideas when there is no way these would work correctly with everythink else. They are solving the problems not thinking that this will create another few.
From my point of viev it is why older players who know that, gets upset on ps newbies.
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*takes a deep breath and tries to be nice* Yes, it is OLD to you, you played...too long it would appear, some of the old school seem TIRED and ANGRY...if you HATE answering questions...then don\'t. Don\'t open the forums and don\'t READ the threads that are \"newb question 32, version 510\".
If helping others taxes you...then DON\'T, let others step up to the plate, those NOT tired and worn out. Let newer \"old schoolers\" like only played 1 year, not 5 or something.
To YOU it is worn out beaten dead horse, to us it is NEW...emergent and game altering. We haven\'t grown used to the thorn in our side.
And learn to do what I try to do, if I don\'t find the topic interesting...I skip it. Took reading forums from FIVE hours a day to five or ten minutes, up to an hour...on a really busy new thread day.
In other words, if it is old, don\'t read it. You KNOW what it is going to say...why test your patience...just IGNORE IT.
Don\'t race into the thread, poison bow and arrows at the ready, straffe the newbies, leave them cowering and scared to BOTHER posting in the corner.
NO ONE...no matter HOW long they have tested, has the right to flame ANYONE. No one, no matter WHAT possition has a right to insult, intimidate or demean another.
Originally posted by Phinehas
Really nothing more annoying than having huge long posts full of complaining against the old folks.
What you need to understand is that yes, we could be nicer, but after the 600th newbie starting a post on something that\'s already been discussed, well it gets annoying. Yes, perhaps each newbie does it only a couple of times, but the end result is that there are hundreds of them.
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i agree the best way to make a boring thread sink to the bottom is not to reply to it. Replying to an annoying thread will just push it to the top and more people will read it and subsequently answer to it.
So if you find a thread annoying, my advice don\'t reply to it....this is the first and only time i am breaking this rule.
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I don\'t answer annoying threads for the most part. In fact, I don\'t even visit the boards where those annoying threads are. However, I\'ll do as I please in the Guilds Forum, and you\'re not going to stop me.
And Lyrah, your holier than thou attitude along with all those cute little ideas are really annoying.
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I have played other games. And my suggestions are not trying to relive my glory days in *insert random game here*.
I guess I have compiled in my head what I would make if I were to create a game. And yes...some of it is straight out of another game. Why? simple...it worked. Nothing else may have...but THAT element did. (chat system in Horizons and crafting...combat stunk on ice, but crafting...worked, and chat was inspired. Quest initiation in EQ, it worked, didn\'t like other parts, but getting a player to figure out how to start a quest by target and hail...it worked.) If it works...why NOT use it. Like the wheel, it works...why reinvent the danged thing.
My \"holier than thou\" is rather adopted. Others are talking down to me in ways I don\'t even speak to my DOG. So I get insulting when insulted, and react elitist when others behave that way. Strange thing is, this is not my first beta. I tend to come in, look around, ask any questions, make a few comments and play a while, post a few bug reports. In Ryzom I got one person that logged on an ill played alt to help me. Same questions, same comments...different responce, both ways.
In Horizons...same thing. I asked a question, helped a guy finish a quest (mob was too hard, it ended up being reported and the mob tweeked down a hair), and ended up in a guild. Same questions, same comments, different responce...on both sides.
My point is all I did, and a few other newbies, was look around, make a few comments, ask a few questions and when slapped around in forum respond \"WHOA there Nelly! what was THAT about?!\" and then get slapped around even MORE.
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I don\'t even know why I\'m in this conversation, as the only people I put down are those trying to start guilds.
Personally, I am annoyed by A. People who ask things they could read in the manual.(which isn\'t that big) B. People who ask things they could find out easily by themselves, and are too lazy to. This equates with begging in my mind and has to do with exploring, RP, etc. etc.
As for the Wish List, I agree that the Search button isn\'t that great, but the fact is, people should be responsible for what they post, and they should THINK before they post. Consider the game\'s uniqueness before saying that we should have horses or something. That kind of thing.
However, since I rarely visit any of the forums where newbies roam, I\'m fairly safe.
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to what Lyrah is saying. Then I thought, hold on, forum member? He/she\'s new to like three days ago...what the hell? Looked at the forums and woah, like twenty resurrected old threads with comments by Lyrah. There were some thought out suggestions in them, but a lot of it had already been said many times. There is no need to post on a topic that has been covered. If you think a thread is particularly good, use the rate thread thing at the bottom. Don\'t resurrect it, just gives the devs/mods/gm\'s more work.
Lyrah; 71 posts in a few days is quite amazing, seems you don\'t like the single or double star with the word newbie. Not sure what to make of this. Either you are concerned (in a good way) with the game and very outspoken or you are a noob. I think the former is probably true, but I think some others find you the opposite. A suggestion; don\'t try to act like someone with a lot of experience when you haven\'t been around that long. Planeshift is filled with many experienced people (myself not included); molecular bluers and even atomic bluers who have been around since forever basically. Be humble, slowly earn the respect of others.
Now, I am not saying you\'re ideal forum/ps world is wrong, yes, they\'re well noted and everyone is entitled to their opinion (postmodern idealism and all that) but ideally... communism should work (and if anyone begins argueing about communism I will scream... just an analogy people). Simply put, Planeshift is what it is, like it or leave it and if you want people to respect you, please only comment with productive suggestions... i.e. new well thought out ideas.
Right, sorry Lyrah. This is the last I\'ll say in this rediculous thread and hopefully one of the Planeshift goddesses will cast a rain of padlocks upon this sillyness. I think now I will take Kaseijin\'s suggestion and not post in annoying threads from now on.
Xirius
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Lyrah, man, come on you can do it! Do a topic like this in each section of these forums!
Dude, it\'s even worse what\'s happening here! Why don\'t you call the FBI? Or, you can also involve the CIA ... :rolleyes:
My god, the horrors that are happening in here ... :rolleyes:
PS - You have my answer in your other similar thread kiddo ;)
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
We arn\'t mean to new people, infact, we welcome them with open arms.
Now, if you mean STUPID people, thats a different stroy. :D
Edit: And most of the older people here have been (in some cases still are) stupid too. Heck, I was probably the biggest dumbass this forum has ever seen back in July.
well you said it right there FESFES ^^ As for your request Lyrah, keep dreaming it will never happen ok? Even if you could get a few people to be nice not everyone will be because lets face it not everyone on here is nice. Also if a new person needs to be taught the right way of doing things we find our current ways perfectly fine look how Efflixi turned out a fine gentlemen still alittle crazy but better then his past alias FESFES.
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In short, being nicer does nothing better for the development of Planeshift. Therefore I award it the honor of being completely irrelevant. If you think people are mean to you, ignore them. If you think the devs are doing something wrong with the game, leave your imput in a correct fasion and if you don\'t like the way they handle it, leave. You don\'t have to be here, therefore I find your arguments completely absurd.
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to the point Kixie i like it.
further more when getting across your POINT you DONT need to use CAPS to SHOW KEY WORDS :|
that is what bold and italic are implemented for.
now please, we\'ve all heard your \'i\'ve tested many other games\' story, that doesnt get you a paper hat, when you start in a game where you know no one you satrt fresh, wether you were the strongest smartest warrior in some other damned game or just an ordinary cult member it doesn\'t count, you have to build yourself from scratch, its called life, live it
happy birthday :|
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Originally posted by Monketh
NO! BAH! GO AWAY!
Seriously, if people say something stupid or ask for something obvious, it will be attacked. Why? Because A.It\'s stupid; or B.It\'s dangerously obvious.
I read the entire user guide and several threads before I downloaded the game, and played the game for several weeks before joining the forums. I always attempt my best grammar and spelling. I respected the oldbies. I expect others to have the same courtesy, and if they don\'t why do they deserve better than to be told to sit on their ass and do three minutes of browsing the forums? Or three minutes of reading the guide? Why are they entitled to not move their fingers a few minutes more or *gasp!* strain their holy eyes reading a few pages of information? Why are they entitled to be ignorant of basic courtesies afforded on an internet forum? Finally, why are they entitled to have us do their work for them, and why do they expect us to? Care to explain to me why our current n00bs have these entitlements when I didn\'t?
B.This is stupid.
Clarifications:
n00b==Common new idiot, not because he\'s new but because he\'s an idiot who just happens to be new.
Newbie==New guy, we don\'t know much about him, but you know what? He\'s OK!
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i help :)
when im in the mood once i gave away like 50 tria and thats alot of money to me
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As to the manual, read it, twice, many parts of it are outdated...or parts of it are bugged...meaning that the feature mentioned is bugged. So reading the manual gave information that didn\'t work.
(my opinion is if the manual is out of date, while not game breaking, it will discourage people from reading it, word will get out eventually that the manual is worthless, even if the manual was at one point perfect.)
I would have read players guides, but the rules against those are *harsh*.
(and I can\'t do coding and my forum does not show the icons to click for bold or italics.)
And I tend to get to a beta and set to work, testing, reporting, and giving opinion. Seems *this* one, those are not welcome. I will remember this and not report. When I get tired of either bugs or lack of content...I will leave, and not be missed.
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Please, grow up Lyrah. It\'s my job to read every new post that pops up. It\'s my job to close old threads that people resurrect and add absolutely nothing useful to, like you did. I didn\'t use any insults to you when I closed that compass thread of yours, but I am entitled to show my utter frustration at yet another duplicate topic when there are TWO OTHERS on the same/next page of the forum!
You are free and encouraged to give your opinion wherever you want to. But as a rule of thumb here, we do not want:
* Duplicate threads adding nothing new to a heavily discussed topic,
* Resurrected threads again adding absolutely nothing useful to the topic,
* Threads to whine and complain in public about matters you should take up in a mature manner through private chat if it bothers you as much as it apparently does.
Now, the Search button WORKS. Use the \"Keyword\" search always. And the more words you use, the better. No wonder you think it\'s broken... how do you expect it to mindread you when you simply type \"spells\"? It\'s going to pull up every spell wishlist, every spell bug report, every spell discussion, screenshot, every single vague mention of the word \"spells\". Something\'s broken here, but it\'s not the search feature- it\'s your logic.
As a final note:
[b]bold[/b]
[i]italic[/i]
[u]underline[/u]
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Didnt even read the thread. Not everyone is mean. Do not direct it on older players. There are newer players that are mean too..and older ones yes.
And efflixi is right. when someone doesnt read anything and comes in askin for money, it kinda ticks you off.