PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Seytra on April 21, 2005, 12:52:25 am
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While there is an /away command, and the auto-reply indicates this status in it\'s reply, there currently is no way of telling whether a player is /away except by sending a /tell.
This isn\'t very convenient, because in most cases sending a /tell isn\'t appropriate or wanted.
Therefore, I propose to include
1) a different color (yellow) for entries on the buddy list while the player is /away. It may or may not warrant a system message like when a player joins or quits, but this might be personal taste and thus configurable.
2) a visual indication of the model ingame. This is especially important for random encounters which you wish to talk to in normal chat, which sould be the prefered way anyway.
This couls be done by simply having the player go translucent like the inactive windows, but should in the end be designated by the player model doing something special, like sitting down with eyes closed or something like this.
This has been somewhat discussed on a thread asking for AFK shops, but IMO there should be such an indication without setting up a shop, and the two should be different so that shops, should they ever be implemented, don\'t visually conflict with general AFK-ness.
Edit: I know that such an indication might be seen as an invitation to indirect PK, i.e., if you see an AFK player, you can try to get a nonster close to them and hope it will turn on them, but OTOH, this can be prevented by the engine (i.e., a player who is AFK and doesn\'t perform any actions (to prevent abuse of AFK) won\'t be attacked by new monsters (attacks that have been going on before would continue just normally, also to prevent AFK abuse)), and abusive players are able to find out anyway.
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Or people could just be let to die if they\'re silly enough to afk near monster spawns. :) It\'s so very weird to see players ingame who are \"away\", anyway. Like their spirit has mysteriously left them or something. I don\'t believe we should have any visual indication of this at all- if you talk to someone and they don\'t respond, you can think of them as arrogant or simply too stupid to communicate. If they cared about their RP image, they would idle somewhere that makes sense (i.e. a tavern room where they could be sleeping) or simply log off untill they return.
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Ah, but very often the situation arises that you are somewhere on a path, say to Ojaveda, and you need to be AFK for a while. Usually, it is this time when someone tries to chat with you who just happens to come to that place by that time - Murphy\'s Law. :)
In these cases a logoff isn\'t warranted since it\'ll not be long. However, we also know that the AFK will occasionally be extended unexpectedly while AFK, and then you\'re not there to log off.
Even if people are standing in the OOC / n00b zone (Hydlaa Plaza), it would be useful to know their AFK status without having to /tell.
The argument of arrogance / stupidity doesn\'t hold if they\'re friends you meet on a road. :P
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Well I think the most \'natural\' and easiest way to see if someone is afk is when they \'re taking a nap. So I \'d like to see your character lay or sit down and get some shuteye .. possibly with some \"ZzZzZ\" text over their heads for making it obvious.
This could be a clear sign that person is AFK and wouldn\'t come over as that odd in the game .. everyone gets tired once in a while.
I think people should be able to die just like if they weren\'t gone though. If you \'re foolish enough to rest near a monster spawn you better pray for a lot of luck. Perhaps monsters could have a harder time seeing you though, since you \'d be sleeping on the ground. And as for luring monsters close to a person hoping it gets killed. Well if I put myself in a beast\'s mind I \'ll go after the guy harassing me and not the one sleeping.
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In another thread (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=11&threadid=15880&page=1#2), acraig mentioned that he\'s working (slowly) on a players\' character-animation tool. (I say \"slowly\" \'cause he has lots of more-urgent stuff to do as well.) Perhaps you could use that to have your character \"Curl Up For a Nap\" or perhaps \"Stand In Profound Contemplation\". :P
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putting a character in \"away\" mode would be a great idea. While in this state, he/she could not do any actions or anything until he is \"back\" and can\'t be attacked, or later, pickpocketed or backstabbed.
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Originally posted by shorty13
putting a character in \"away\" mode would be a great idea. While in this state, he/she could not do any actions or anything until he is \"back\" and can\'t be attacked, or later, pickpocketed or backstabbed.
Yeah, that\'s a bad idea, you\'re right, because that would let people go away whenever they\'re in trouble, so that\'s a really bad idea, yes it is. :)
Personally, I\'d go with Zan\'s idea though. Just a few flying Z\'s above the head to show you\'re somewhat asleep or just really, really bored. Then again, if the server would just kick out people who\'re idle for more than 5 minutes, that would be more beneficial, as there is not unlimited resources on the server, and every single client raises the requirement.
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Originally posted by Kiva
Then again, if the server would just kick out people who\'re idle for more than 5 minutes, that would be more beneficial, as there is not unlimited resources on the server, and every single client raises the requirement.
I really don\'t think this makes a big difference. After all, if AFK shops will ever be implemented, these would be more of an incentive to \"unnecessarily\" keep idling. Pure awayness doesn\'t benefit except for a higher spot on the wall of shame, which IMNSHO should be removed anyway.
People are away just as much now as they\'ll be if away indication is implemented, thus resource drain won\'t change. Also, considering server usage, forced logoff should be used only when server resources actually run low, and in that case, idle times should be used: the ones who\'ve been idle for the longest time should be kicked first. However, I don\'t see any serious trouble with resources anytime soon.
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didn\'t think of that, Kiva. It would be good though if you could do it and have the effect I stated earlier if you went to the tavern or temple first (peaceful areas --and one somewhere in Ojaveda--) and did this. Then it would be good.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Or people could just be let to die if they\'re silly enough to afk near monster spawns. :) It\'s so very weird to see players ingame who are \"away\", anyway. Like their spirit has mysteriously left them or something. I don\'t believe we should have any visual indication of this at all- if you talk to someone and they don\'t respond, you can think of them as arrogant or simply too stupid to communicate. If they cared about their RP image, they would idle somewhere that makes sense (i.e. a tavern room where they could be sleeping) or simply log off untill they return.
I don\'t agree with that. From time to time when I play PS I get a phone call or one of my children starts crying and I have no time to go to a suitable place to be afk. Sometimes that can result in me being afk for a long time.
Personally I would like an /away option that temporarily suspends you from the game so that nothing can attack you (and possibly you are no longer visible either). i.e. this is also realistic. You are no longer in the PS world as you are tending to Real Life things. So a temporary suspend would work nicely here.
Greetings,
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Personally I would like an /away option that temporarily suspends you from the game so that nothing can attack you (and possibly you are no longer visible either). i.e. this is also realistic. You are no longer in the PS world as you are tending to Real Life things. So a temporary suspend would work nicely here.
I thought that was what Alt+F4 was for, but then again, I could be mistaken. After all, I\'m not a dev, so my Alt+F4 might work in a diffrent way than your Alt+F4 does. :)
After all, if AFK shops will ever be implemented, these would be more of an incentive to \"unnecessarily\" keep idling.
Not trying to get way off-topic here, I\'ll just tell of what I\'ve heard. Plans might have changed since back then (after all, it\'s quite a while ago), but initially, AFK shops might be there, but eventually people will have to rent a booth or get a shop somewhere if they wish to sell their stuff without doing anything. If not, they\'ll have to sell it on their own, with the whole \"Come see this great sword blablabla\" deal. And besides, going AFK in a game shouldn\'t be encouraged, as noone really benefits from it. If you\'re not around, you can close your client, or just be there, open to monster attacks and whatnot, just like if you were there, and don\'t give me that \"It takes so long to log in again\", because it doesn\'t. Surely you can waste that one minute of your life on logging in. After all, you just left the game for something which was obviously a lot more important than your character since you didn\'t log out. :)
(I\'m not sure that last bit made any sense... Oh well)
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I thought that was what Alt+F4 was for, but then again, I could be mistaken. After all, I\'m not a dev, so my Alt+F4 might work in a diffrent way than your Alt+F4 does. :)
I don\'t want to exit game just to be brb.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
Personally I would like an /away option that temporarily suspends you from the game so that nothing can attack you (and possibly you are no longer visible either). i.e. this is also realistic. You are no longer in the PS world as you are tending to Real Life things. So a temporary suspend would work nicely here.
That\'d be alright, too. However, I\'d still wish for the buddy list color becoming yellow in that case to indicate that. After all, the PS world itself doesn\'t have your presence, and the information of your presence isn\'t important to most people (since it only indicates your position, anyway), but the buddy list is totally OOC and thus the information is important (because it indicates if you\'re ingame or brb, instead of being gone for potentially years).
Originally posted by Kiva
I thought that was what Alt+F4 was for, but then again, I could be mistaken. After all, I\'m not a dev, so my Alt+F4 might work in a diffrent way than your Alt+F4 does. :)
As Jorrit said, I\'m not going to /quit and relogin to get a drink or other necessary things, but I also don\'t want people to in vain stand before my idling char trying to interact with me.
If I know I\'ll be offline for 30 minutes or more, /quit is appropriate, but not for things that take half as long as quitting and relogging.
Originally posted by Kiva
And besides, going AFK in a game shouldn\'t be encouraged, as noone really benefits from it.
The problem is that it still stays a game, and there are a load of RL things that simply happen which are a whole lot more important than the game, we cannot ignore that. Unnecessary AFK shouldn\'t be encouraged, but going AFK must also be easily and freely doable, because otherwise people would be AFK without any indication, which will be more disruptive.
If you\'re playing a game of chess or whatnot, you\'re going to tend to important RL things if they come up, no? You\'re not stuffing away the board (noting positions of pieces), which would equal /quit if you\'re just going to fetch some food.
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Originally posted by Seytra
If you\'re playing a game of chess or whatnot, you\'re going to tend to important RL things if they come up, no? You\'re not stuffing away the board (noting positions of pieces), which would equal /quit if you\'re just going to fetch some food.
When playing chess, you don\'t have a server that requires to keep track of lots of clients at the same time, and you can agree with your opponent to take a small break. In a MMOG you can\'t agree with the world that you should all just take a small break to go get food, you just do it anyway.
Seriously, how could you ever compare chess to PS? On the other hand, let\'s try this as an example. Pretend you are a server, and you watch two friends play a game of chess, and suddenly you all decide to get some food. Now you have two options:
1) Write down where all the pieces are, and put the game away or
2) Put all the information into your head and keep remembering where all the pieces are, and put the game away for an undefined amount of time.
#1 is called /quit, and #2 is called /away. Which would you rather do? :)
The more you want the server to keep remembering, the more stressed it\'ll be.
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Kiva, that illustration with a server and chess really made no sense whatsoever. lol
You don\'t seriously expect people to log out to go the bathroom when it takes forever to log back in, do you?
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again such an one way discussion.
Personally I dont think that logging out is that bad, but maybe it depends on the fact that I am sitting behind ADSL, and just have to wait a minute while logging in.
@ Grono, erm Kiva: 3.You probably just could let the Chessboard where it is
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Well I personally think your name changing colour would be a great way.. because lets face it, RL you are called off to do something that may only take a minute and it is rediculous to sign out just for that. Of course laying down or sitting is a great way to compliment this, what about lets say blue name for OOC? Then you can differ those who are there to RP and those who are there to powerlevel.
wait okay going a little off topic.. but I think that RP should be taken to a new level, it is not required but maybe it should be.
We need to set some rules for RP and OOC.. wait I will post a topic in general to go into full detail.. check there.
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What about X\'s guide to RPing here in Hydlaa?
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Or people could just be let to die if they\'re silly enough to afk near monster spawns.
OMG!!! My kitchen is one fire!!! Oh wait I need to put my char away from this Ulber... :P
a visual indication of the model ingame. This is especially important for random encounters which you wish to talk to in normal chat, which sould be the prefered way anyway.
This couls be done by simply having the player go translucent like the inactive windows, but should in the end be designated by the player model doing something special, like sitting down with eyes closed or something like this.
Or simply a diferent label color like er... purple
Anyway I think it\'s a good idea Seytra
EDIT: This away thingy (you know not be attacked, pickpocked, blablabla) shouldn\'t let us move too or some people would exploit it.
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Originally posted by Lordbug
Or simply a diferent label color like er... purple
I fear this would too easily be confused with GM colors, especially since there already is some reddish colur.
Originally posted by Lordbug
Anyway I think it\'s a good idea Seytra
EDIT: This away thingy (you know not be attacked, pickpocked, blablabla) shouldn\'t let us move too or some people would exploit it.
Yep. Either you\'re protected and can\'t do anything, or you\'re able to do things, but no protection. I, however, still think that a mixed approach would work best:
Originally posted by Seytra
a player who is AFK and doesn\'t perform any actions (to prevent abuse of AFK) won\'t be attacked by new monsters (attacks that have been going on before would continue just normally, also to prevent AFK abuse)
Clarification of my indeed cryptic sentence:
This would give the decision to the player: if you set /away, but move or do anything afterwards, your protection is voided until you revoke and reenable /away.
Also, if you are being chased by a MOB, setting /away won\'t stop it. This is necessary because otherwise people would /away heal. MOBs that weren\'t attacking you when you set /away wouldn\'t do so until you remove /away or perform any action.
If someone manages to get loads of MOBs to surround you while /away, that\'d still not be a real problem since you\'ll see it before removing /away and then can run, :) as long as MOBs aren\'t running themselves (which I think they should).
@ SeiferRune: This might work if the system would default to OOC, because it\'ll be the people who RP who will turn on RP mode, while the clueless / OOC chatters won\'t bother just as they don\'t bother prefixing their talk with OOC: or any other indication now.
Sadly, such a default would be misleading in it\'s percieved message: it looks like encouraging OOC talk while in fact it\'s supposed to do the opposite.
Edit: speaking of encouraging unnecessary idling: the wall of shame does just that by ranking the top five longest logged in players. Well, mostly an invitation to log in before going to bed. :\\
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There should be two levels of away from keyboard...
first would be for cases when you are at the computer but doing something else, you\'re on the phone or something. This would be solved perfectly by Zan\'s suggestion with zzzZZZz\'s
The second would be more long term thing for periods going over 5 minutes. Now in this case shutting down the game would be perfectly legal solution but it would be great if you could diconnect from the server without shutting down the whole game. Ideally it would be great if you could disconnect from server but keep the game running with your location and map cached locally... so you when you come back you just click on the back button and you recconnect to the server wihtout having to reload the map or whatever. This is i imagine very hard to implement, so i suggest another simpler solution. Having a choice of quitting the game or going back to the character selection menu, it saves time. Often i want to switch characters, i have to quit the game(unloading of the game takes about 2-3 mins on my comp) and then load the game again (from icon click to character selection another 2-3 mins).
I don\'t think you should be immune while afk...you would have people using this as turtling technique... a mage casts heal on the party, uses up all his mana goes into afk mode until the battle\'s over....a big no-no
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Originally posted by Kaseijin
I don\'t think you should be immune while afk...you would have people using this as turtling technique... a mage casts heal on the party, uses up all his mana goes into afk mode until the battle\'s over....a big no-no
On the other hand one can also misuse that right now by simply quitting and entering the game again later.
Greetings,
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true but as i said quitting and reloggin takes time, 4 minutes min on my comp...that does not make a valid strategy and with immutinty you would have this
cast heal
/afk
*wait for someone in you party to get damaged critcally*
/back
cast heal
/afk
rinse and repeat
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i still have trouble making a diffence between tactic and strategy...the above might be a battle tactic not a strategy...
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Originally posted by Kaseijin
true but as i said quitting and reloggin takes time, 4 minutes min on my comp...that does not make a valid strategy and with immutinty you would have this
cast heal
/afk
*wait for someone in you party to get damaged critcally*
/back
cast heal
/afk
rinse and repeat
You could slightly avoid this kind of misuse by making the afk have some small penalty. Like a delay after coming back before you can do something.
Greetings,
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that would solve the above tactic but here is another exaple of passive afk-ing
in guild wars
you could have afk look outs. you strategically locate a couple of you low level guild member around your base/meeting place these afk lookouts could see the enemy approaching... warn their base, however the enemy could not eliminate them as they are immune. I am sure there are couple of more abuses of immune afk that I can\'t think of.
i say this...in afk you shouldn\'t be immune but you should be able to heal. As afk should be masked as sleeping from rp perspective. What if you get attacked while in afk mode...well you could set it that your character defends itself by going into full defensive pose.
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Originally posted by Kaseijin
that would solve the above tactic but here is another exaple of passive afk-ing
in guild wars
you could have afk look outs. you strategically locate a couple of you low level guild member around your base/meeting place these afk lookouts could see the enemy approaching... warn their base, however the enemy could not eliminate them as they are immune. I am sure there are couple of more abuses of immune afk that I can\'t think of.
That\'s easy to solve. While you are afk you can of course not see what is happening either. i.e. your client would go to a kind of \'pause\' screen. So there is no way to see who is coming or not.
Greetings,
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ok then you should implement the following as well...the creatures should diffrentiate between afk players and non-afk players....to prevent any baiting techniques...where you would send a player into a horde of monsters...when attacked the player goes in afk...other members of the group attack the monster which are now conctrated on killing an immune afk player. If monster focus on the other player that player goes into a afk, send PM to the previously afk bait that he is no logger the focus of their attention, he goes out afk (delay or no delay he will be back in time, unless the delay is something like 1 minute which would make the afk command useless)
My point is....when implementing an immune afk-ing there are too many things to consider.
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Good idea but it requires good amount of code, i implemented a back button in Char Selection menu but it didn\'t get implemented.
Better try posting it in bugtracker.
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Implementing an immune AFK isn\'t quite that hard to create I don\'t think.
Jorrit put it perfectly .. going on AFK should just lift your character out of the game for that period. That means it can\'t do anything anymore .. it can\'t move, can\'t look around, can\'t regenerate, can\'t attack or be attacked .. it would be a NPC basically.
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Originally posted by Zan
Implementing an immune AFK isn\'t quite that hard to create I don\'t think.
Jorrit put it perfectly .. going on AFK should just lift your character out of the game for that period. That means it can\'t do anything anymore .. it can\'t move, can\'t look around, can\'t regenerate, can\'t attack or be attacked .. it would be a NPC basically.
However that would encourage /away fleeing. Now you\'d have to log out for this, but most MMORPGs have a forced waiting period of 20 seconds to prevent this. So this could be used for /away immunity kicking in: you\'d basicly give up control of the char immediately, but the immunity won\'t kick in for 20 seconds. That should be enough to prevent afk fleeing.
However, I stuill think any attack that a MOB started on a player before going AFK should not be subject to AFK immunity at all; only MOBs that didn\'t attack the player before AFK would not attack while tha player is AFK.
If the player is lifted out of the game, it must of course be invisible ingame as well, because otherwise you\'d be in for unpleasant surprises if people drag MOBs to your position while you are AFK and unable to notice it.
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Originally posted by Seytra
However, I stuill think any attack that a MOB started on a player before going AFK should not be subject to AFK immunity at all; only MOBs that didn\'t attack the player before AFK would not attack while tha player is AFK.
That\'s perhaps the best solution. If you are in attack with someone (NPC or not) then you will not be immune from them.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
That\'s perhaps the best solution. If you are in attack with someone (NPC or not) then you will not be immune from them.
You have the skills: Make that afk-char transparent. That tells something... :)
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Seytra has provided probably a near flawless solution. Oh yeah and just before i wasn\'t trying to be an a**hole. I was just playing the devils advocate, so i could stimulate a better solution, or whatever.
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Originally posted by Kiva
< snip >
... and don\'t give me that \"It takes so long to log in again\", because it doesn\'t. Surely you can waste that one minute of your life on logging in...
< snip >
one minute?? please, give me your computer so i can log on in one minute!.
normally takes me 5-10 minutes to log on. seriously, i start the log on, get some snacks and drink handy, hit the bathroom, and sit down and wait for the log on to finish.
--- keder maloy
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Eh?? 5-10 mins? i login under 5 mins. What are the specs of your computer?
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Originally posted by DivineLight
Eh?? 5-10 mins? i login under 5 mins. What are the specs of your computer?
honestly, i think it is my internet link. the map is downloaded from the server on each connection, correct?
P4HT 3.06GHz/533MHz 1024MB RAM 100 GB HD is the one i have the painfully slow login time on. also note that i am loading all maps.
--- keder maloy
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No, the maps are 100s of MBs, they can\'t be downloaded each time you connect. They are stored locally.
You\'r computer is very good and you are loading all maps, that\'s about 100 MB, 5-10 mins are good for such huge loadin. If you don\'t wander much and go from zone to zone in Yliakum, turn of load all maps option and you\'ll load under 1 min. :)
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Originally posted by DivineLight
No, the maps are 100s of MBs, they can\'t be downloaded each time you connect. They are stored locally.
You\'r computer is very good and you are loading all maps, that\'s about 100 MB, 5-10 mins are good for such huge loadin. If you don\'t wander much and go from zone to zone in Yliakum, turn of load all maps option and you\'ll load under 1 min. :)
i roam about constantly, that is why i turned on the load all maps feature... right now i can\'t remember what i was doing, but i got out a pair of stopwatches and timed loading time and everything else seperately. loading time accounted for about a third of my total time. that is when i decided to load all maps. (shrugs) oh well.
--- keder maloy
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Originally posted by Kaseijin
Seytra has provided probably a near flawless solution. Oh yeah and just before i wasn\'t trying to be an a**hole. I was just playing the devils advocate, so i could stimulate a better solution, or whatever.
i agree, Seytra\'s solution is nearly flawless. one other thing i would like to add to it is that HP/mana/stamina/etc. do *not* regenerate while afk. with the way the hostile npc\'s focus, getting rid of the one focused on you while the swarm is focused on other members of your group and going afk to recover should not work.
if you go afk with 1%HP and 1%mana left, you should have 1%HP and 1%mana left when you return.
--- keder maloy
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Id like to add that you SHOULD be immune to player attacks while afk. I think it would lead to \"afk farming\", where thief character(usually) or some other says to themselves, \"AFK! That means an easy target!\" You come back from whatever to find your character dead, and with no items, basically, just like when character was started, except for skills/lvl. Not that people would JUST look for afks, but if they saw them, its \"got killed/looted\" message for the afk player...
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Here\'s for backing up Seytra\'s points 1) and 2).
I really think away characters should be tagged in both the buddy list and in sight. And since you have to challenge a player in order to fight with him/her, then there\'s nothing to worry about people getting killed in their sleep. Unless you\'re dumb enough to go AFK near a monster ^^. That is deserving of death.
Cadoras, back me up here! *notices he is offline* Doh.
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I agree, we really need a better way than the auto reply on tell and such for showing we are away
*backs up Sangwa*
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Surely the easiest long term away indicator is to log out?
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Long term, yes, but if you are only going for about ten minutes then the indicator would be best.
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I think with the already implemented functions it is not really difficult to realise the ideas in this thread.
/away forces the char to sit down (with full position-lock) at first.
A 20 second timer starts.
After the 20 seconds -> /set invisible and invincible (if it isnt that easy to implement /set seperately for player level a /deputize to tester lvl should do the trick) and with the invisibility there comes a PAUSE screen showing a nice pic of hydlaa or alike. I don't know how the colors in the buddylist are managed, though. One could make them dependant on the access group you are in (then a new "away-er" group instead of tester would be appropriate) or dependant on a flag variable.
By hitting a predefined key (P as pause would be fine) you exit the pause-mode, setting invisible off.
After another 10 sec your char /sits up and invincible is set off. (edit: and if your sec lvl was changed now it also it gets switched back to player)
While the 20 sec entering the pause-mode, you can disrupt the sequence by hitting P. This is needed as you may see a mob running towards you just the moment you start the sequence.
It is necessary that invincible is off only when you can move again as people may have seen you getting afk and lurked some mobs to your position in order to give you a "nice surprise" when you come back.
The only issue I can think of in this is whether to stop mana/HP/stamina regeneration or not while being afk. And if yes, how to do it.