PlaneShift
Gameplay => Newbie Help (Start Here) => Topic started by: 1Samildanach on May 16, 2005, 01:28:05 am
-
I haven\'t played PlaneShift yet but it looks very interesting and fits my requerments (runs on linux, works with dial-up, free) so hopefully I will soon.
Anyway, I like the name 1Samildanach and would like to use it, but I\'m not sure that it would be acceptable.
I\'ll go through the rules about naming that can be found in the \"General Discusion\" section:
1. Names of popular book/film/game characters, widely known politicians, countries, movements and their leaders, religion, religion leaders or religious figures, actors, artists and trademarks.
Samildanach is a epithet of the Gaelic Celtic god Lugh, but other than that I don\'t think it comes any where near violating it
2. Parts of the name that have a cultural connotation incompatible with the RPG style as defined in the Planeshift Fantasy/Medieval setting should be avoided. Included, but not exhaustive, are: references to the cyber-culture, existing religions, politics, history, slang, ... The fact that the name part is in another language than English doesn\'t exclude it from this rule.
I don\'t see how 1Samildanach would be against this rule.
3. Stupid names, like \"Spawnman\", \"Mrpussycat\", \"Evil\" and names that create a sentence with firstname + lastname, i.e. \"Leet Dude\", \"ImA God\", etc.
Character names composed of common nouns, verbs and adjectives, or titles should be avoided as much as possible.
I don\'t think 1Samildanach is nonsensical, it even makes a sentence if you know what samildanach means:)
4. Words percieved as insults to any race, gender, ethnic origin, nationality, religion, politicians, actors, artists. This includes backwards and misspelled words that deliberately resemble a insult.
I don\'t see how 1Samildanach would be against this rule.
5. Names that contain swears and are obviously made to provoke.
Impersonations, especially of members of PS team or PS community, and names percieved as insults to members of PS team or PS community.
once again: I don\'t see how 1Samildanach would be against this rule.
If it is unsatisfatory, would something like Ein Samildanach be okay?
-
If that\'s a \"1\" in the name, it\'ll be unacceptable just for that reason. I\'d also suggest not using actual words of other languages, such as \"ein\", because we do have a nice amount of German (-speaking or learning) players who would immediately recognize that - and personally, I\'m of the opinion that it would ruin the atmosphere a bit. Last names are not required, however, so simply entering \'Samildanach\' would work, unless you insist on having two names. Either way, numbers in names have to go :)
-
Thanks. Just in case your curious (and even if you aren\'t) samildanach means (or at least I think it means) \"of many skills\".
Can you see why I want \"one\" at the start? :)
p.s. \"Ein\" was just a quick example. How many gaelic speaking people do you think you have?
-
Karyuu already won. Now submit to your destiny and make something original like Nam-Eh or Nairabrab Eht Nanoc.
-
Originally posted by 1Samildanach
Can you see why I want \"one\" at the start? :)
Very much so, but what we want often conflicts with that should really be... :)
How many gaelic speaking people do you think you have?
At least three ;)
-
Originally posted by NewPie
Now submit to your destiny and make something original like Nam-Eh or Nairabrab Eht Nanoc.
What if I\'m not imaginative enough? :)
I\'ll have a think, but it would be nice if I could just use a modifide version of 1Samildanach (like using the gaelic word for one, which, by the way, I would post here but I haven\'t found it yet).
-
I believe \'one\' in Gaelic is \'amh?in\', but it could also translate to \'alone\' or \'only\'. *nodnod*
-
At least three ;)
oh-well I suppose that means I\'ll have to resort to imagination.
-
amh?in only, one, exclusively: ach amah?in = except: n? hamh?in = not only
from http://www.funet.fi/~magi/opinnot/gaelic/irish-dic.html
any advice on thinking up a name?
-
I can\'t suggest anything, except that almost any common Gaelic given name should be acceptable (Disclaimer: I am not a GM and have no authority to approve or reject names :) ). It seems to me, though, that Samildanach should be quite acceptable as a second name, in keeping with traditional medieval usage.
Memo to self:
To-do item #4339 - learn Gaelic
-
There are quite a few name generators out there on the internet, if anyone\'s having a hard time :] Sometimes they can be surprising with a really pleasant name.
Couple good links:
http://www.seventhsanctum.com/gens/namer.html
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/names/generators.htm
-
Another good name generator is http://www.rinkworks.com/namegen/ :)
-
I think I might just use Conchobar, but I\'ve got some time before I\'ll have to make a decision. (I haven\'t got PlanShift yet and I won\'t be at my home till tomorrow)
-
How about using \"Amh?in Samildanach\" .. it keeps the same meaning more or less and gets rid of that annoying number.
Because I have to agree with Karyuu, numbers shouldn\'t be in any names. Ever seen a real name with a number in? Don\'t think so .. it just doesn\'t work even though many people online use it. I personally can\'t stand it and will be hesitant to talk to anyone who isn\'t original enough to create a name without actual numbers in it.
The other part of your name seems fine to me though.
-
Maybe I\'ll change my name in real life to \'20394612\'. I think it\'ll sound more realistic don\'t you think?
But personally, I wouldn\'t even know Zan\'s idea would even be Gaelic (without theis thread anyway). I think it should be fine.
-
I\'ll see if I can find the gaelic equvilent of \"one\" (the meaning similair to \"a person\" ).
the (main) reason I have a numeral in my (internet) name is to make it shorter (theres one or two other reasons as well).
Thank you all for your help.
-
Originally posted by Zan
Ever seen a real name with a number in? Don\'t think so ..
a short example. Edward Jason Jones VI
numbers are included in names but they\'re not that common and the numbers are in roman numerals. so some names have numbers.
just my 1/2 a cent.
-
Originally posted by Zeful
Originally posted by Zan
Ever seen a real name with a number in? Don\'t think so ..
a short example. Edward Jason Jones VI
numbers are included in names but they\'re not that common and the numbers are in roman numerals. so some names have numbers.
This is not part of the name. It is an automatically applied distinguishing counter, nothing more. If it were part of the name, it could be chosen as freely as the rest, but it cannot.
Anyway, I am against names that mean anything. Most often they mean something (IMO lame) like \"the best / superior\" (in it\'s many variations) or an insult. Constructing in a different language doesn\'t change that. It simply speaks of lack of imagination, and if I happen to like someones name because I don\'t speak the language, it is still disappointing to get to know the meaning eventually.
However, it seems not to be against the rules, so I can\'t oppose it on that grounds, though it still feels like having \"one\", regardless of how it\'s written / translated to another language, as firstname should be against the rules, and I feel it is against their spirit anyway. :(
Oh, BTW, there even is a name generator included in the client: the starlike thing near the name field. ;)
The general rule of thumb is that \"if you have doubts about it being OK, don\'t do it\". :)
Thanks for at least asking, though. :)
-
Just to throw some other ideas into the mix:
1)
Most names mean something. Hasn\'t anyone else here ever read one of those horrid baby naming books?
2)
I agree that you shouldn\'t have numeric characters in your name - this could probably be said to violate rule 2 as this practice came into existance as a direct result of the existance of computers, or possibly licence plates, neither of which would exist in a fantasy/medieval setting- , but you might actually be able to justify having a character named \'one\' if you assume your character\'s parents are either severly organized or severly unimaginative. You might even want to back this idea up with siblings named \'two\' and \'three\'. I\'m not neccessarily saying that this is a good idea. The point here is that it\'s conceivable that someone existing within the confines of the PlaneShift universe might actually decide to name their child \'one\'. I haven\'t actually played this game yet, but from what I\'ve read on the users guide, it looks like you not only create your character, but you create his or her parents and siblings and backstories for the lot of them. My recommendation is to put some thought into your character\'s history first. Think about the world he\'s going to be living in and what his parents might be inclined to name him and base your decision on whether everything seems to fit. That should do a pretty good job of keeping you within the rules, in spirit. Or you can just use a naming program, like others are suggesting.
\"My name is Malaki, oh Metal Lord. It means, \'he who really loves the Metal Lord\'\".
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by 1Samildanach
How many gaelic speaking people do you think you have?
At least three ;)
Make that at least four now, with my addition. ;)
Great name too, loved the games he did in honor of his mother as well, in August (for those of you who actually get that, major kudos ;)). The only thing would be losing that \'1\' at the beginning.
-
I say, latin translator all the way. You can find nmaes like : Validius, and Eximius, and Atrox Interfecio. Yeah, those are all in use, but hey, they\'re latin.
-
I wonder how many (non-gaelic speaking) people would be willing to name there child \"Ainimh\" ? it\'s meaning (according to [URL]http://www.wordgumbo.com/ie/cel/iri/irish.htm[/URL>) is \"blemish\":)
aon=1, but I want a gaelic word that means \"a person\":(
-
Just a note about numbers in names..
My firend\'s parents lived in africa for a while, and there they met someone called \"eleventh\", because that persons parents hadn\'t bothered in finding a name for him/her
(Not because I think it\'s good, but is DOES exist people with numbers in their names..)
/Mwaza
-
Per has a point, up to a point. Anyone who knows the Richard Sharpe stories might remember an Exploring Officer named Maj. Septimus (ie. \"seventh\" ) Pyecroft. (Good stories, those, if you like that sort of thing...) Mostly, though, they\'ll be ordinal numbers spelled out (fifth, sixth, seventh etc.) rather than cardinal numbers or digits.
Most importantly IMHO is that, as Roander points out, every name means something, and ordinal names like Septimus or Eleventh really mean \"My parents had too many children and not enough imagination. :P \"
I still think that an adjective surname like Samildanach would best be balanced by a common, maybe even boring, given name like, I don\'t know, Fingal, perhaps? (You don\'t suppose Fingal might be derived from the phrase \"fionn Gael\", do you?)
That\'s my 2 tria, so I\'ll shut up now. 8)
-
I think the word I\'m after is \"duine\" . :) :) :)
-
lol, any of you ever heard of Septimus Severus? I guess no... well, as long as you don\'t run around with a name such as \"Troll Wannabe\" I couldn\'t care less...
and about the number in names, don\'t have actual numbers in it 1,2,3 etc. Septimus, latin names etc. is good enough IMHO
-
In regards to using numbers in names... Actually, in at least one language I\'m aware of, it does happen... Japanese.
Several japanese names use \"one\" in them, in various ways - the best example being \"Ichi\", which is simply the number one.
Using the arabic numerals in names is admitadly quite wierd.
some other name related points...
A great many names started off as descriptive terms or job listings - I mean, think about the english family names Smith, Cartwright, Cooper, Mason, Miller, Baker, Farmer, etc.
Most names used in english are actually just words or phrases in other languages (or even just old or middle english), that may have been corrupted somewhat heavily by their use as names in places that don\'t use those languages. The name \"Kelly\" for example, derrives, I believe, from a gaelic word for warrior. In most of the world, I believe that name meanings are generally well known and immediately recognizable. If you name your daughter \"Ai\" in Japan, there isn\'t a person who speaks the language who won\'t know that her name is, litterally, Love.
Certain name elements refer to social status. The name \"Fitz\" actually means bastard (ie. illegitimate child), for example, and would be given to an acknowledged bastard child of an aristocrat.
Then of course, you have surnames like \"Leifsdottir\" or \"Erikson\" which basicly just say who your father was.
Really, when people say \"pick something that doesn\'t mean anything\" - they are going completely against how people have been traditionally named.
-
Just for the record, the name Ichi (??) does not really exist. Sure you can name your child that, but people would look at you quite odd. The male name Kazuki (???P) has been popular for children as of late. This site (http://www.yoshihama.co.jp/namecon99.html) gives you a list of top-ten recently popular children\'s names both by full name and kanji used. The ?? character is seventh on the list of boys\' names, meaning is is the seventh most frequently used in names, not a populat name itself.
Search for anyone named \"Ichi\" in a Japanese periodical and I guarantee you\'ll find the name as frequently as the English name \"Moon Unit.\" Just because you see a silly name in a fictional ???? or ?h???} doesn\'t mean it is truly commonplace. :)
Names like ?L?? or ?u???}?[ are not exactly normal in the land of the rising sun. ;)
The argument posed in this thread was that only alphabetical characters are used in an individual\'s name, not numbers. Even if the name Kazuki literally meant \"one-\"something, it would still be spelled out using that language\'s alphabet. Thus far, the argument still stands.
As for a random collection of syllables, most \"Fantasy\" names are thought to stem from some long-forgotten or perhaps not-yet-invented lingual roots that might seem strange to non-native speakers. Hence the names don\'t entirely make sense to anyone but the creator (or those weird people who can speak Tolkienian elvish o.0)
I don\'t see a problem with Amhain Samildanach, but I suppose if that name isn\'t okay with you then that\'s that. :(
~Indi
-
I know most uses of Ichi as names are actually nicknames, or shortened forms. I have met one person who\'s name was Ichi, and he said he used 一 for the kanji - though I didn\'t exactly check his ID.
Hmm. Looking at that list... I feel sad for girls named もえ given it\'s current connotations in a certain segment of japanese society.
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
How many gaelic speaking people do you think you have?
At least three ;)
Karyuu, if you\'re going to tell me that you in addition of being creative you also can speak Gaellic, then I have to force you to marry me.
-
without the one your name sems fine as a surname, It\'ll only get pulled up if someone knows what it means and feels it spoils the game, of which is unlikely.
if oyu have trouble thinking of a name, theres the name generator in the character creation section, handy that, no one sees it though.
also you could ask many of the people who have unique names, or maybe someone who has been renamed already, i can think of plenty of names :)
personally i prefer a name that has no meaning to it at all, and if it does i dont know about it :)
Demarthl for instance, just slapped a few letters together, same with Za\'ek, Pirakika, Kronxek, Solthor... many many names :)
-
Originally posted by Demarthl
without the one your name sems fine as a surname, It\'ll only get pulled up if someone knows what it means and feels it spoils the game, of which is unlikely.
No disrespect intended. Spoils the game? How are we to determine that? And frankly it should not matter if someone knows what it means.
I had my in game character name changed because someone thought they knew what it meant. Though they got the meaning and cultural refference wrong. I didn\'t argue the case much as I am just a visitor anyway. Frankly as an international community such as most internet based communities are I would think it would be advisable to accept multilingual names even those containing a \"meaning\". I can\'t even begin to remember my characters new name. And probably never will. I have to have it written down as it is more or less gibberish and means nothing to me.
I moderate at a few international communities. Our policy on names or Nicks etc is nothing offensive etc. And I will conceed in this case that numbers in names are undesirable.
My big problem is that because the system works the way it does name possibilities are severely restricted. And to then go and restrict it further because someone \"thinks\" it means something it does not. Well it just seems foolish.
I may try an in game petition after I deliberate on a name that might be acceptable and even memorable. Bob the Destroyer perhaps. No that won\'t do because of the way user IDs are generated and the tell system works. As surely someone has Bob already. If not IT IS MINE! :P
Originally posted by Demarthl
if oyu have trouble thinking of a name, theres the name generator in the character creation section, handy that, no one sees it though.
I see it. But the names it generates are hard to remember etc. :P It really messes up gameplay etc when I have to look up via menus a characters name just so I can get it right for a /tell command etc. I like cli better as I can go faster and more efficient than with GUIs.
Originally posted by Demarthl
personally i prefer a name that has no meaning to it at all, and if it does i dont know about it :)
Demarthl for instance, just slapped a few letters together, same with Za\'ek, Pirakika, Kronxek, Solthor... many many names :)
As I said already I disagree with the meaning issue. And for almost every one of your examples you posted below I can think of several possible cultural refferences for. Kronxek is rather close to Kronos. Solthor, are we talking about sun\'s or stars by sol or the viking mithos by thor. Even gibberish won\'t keep you safe. Perhaps I should petition the GMs for their cultural experience so I can choose something outside the scope of their cultural knowledge so it will not get misconstrued as having a meaning it does not.
Again I don\'t intend to offend anyone. I am just getting very frustrated with the way things are going. I am rather easy going and am not going to give up yet though. But this will turn alot of people off. I just hope the collective response isn\'t \"Then go somewhere else and do your own thing.\". I would like to contribute to the project what some of my many tallents might be able to provide in time.
-
I know that I am not exactly in the position to give an opinion (my download of the game is at 53%), but I think that naming restrictions should not be incredibly strict.
In my humble opinion, references to obscure texts or people who fit in with the era should be perfectly acceptable.
Names which are modern or silly (such as Krad the Axe Murderer) should ofcourse be unacceptable, but names such as Shem Shinar (Shem is the son of Noah, Shinar is the location of the Tower of Babel, according to the Bible) are far out there.
Just my little thoughts, feel free to disregard it.
-
Big big no to common names.
Bob? Never.
Biblical references? Come on, at least choose something slightly more obscure ;)
I guarantee that there are names out there that -do- fit in a fantasy setting that are not hard to remember. Nor are names in general hard to think of. Are you starved for meaning? Make up your own! No need to use something that already exists, in one culture or another. Granted there are words and names that will fit seamlessly into the Planeshift world, but not all of them do, and it is up to the GMs (who are wonderful, trusted people) to decide when someone needs a renaming. I trust their judgment, as do many others.
The point is, try not to use it if it\'s a \"plain Earth-name,\" un-fantasy, or belongs to a famous individual or thing or place (whether actual or fictional).
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
Big big no to common names.
Bob? Never.
Biblical references? Come on, at least choose something slightly more obscure ;)
But the point is no matter what you choose there is a high probablility that what you choose will be the equivalent or similar to bob in another culture. Perhaps sans palindrome nature. And frankly I had something obscure. But because people could read different meanings into it. Well it was not acceptable.
Originally posted by Karyuu
I guarantee that there are names out there that -do- fit in a fantasy setting that are not hard to remember. Nor are names in general hard to think of.
I love the work of Tolkien and Lewis. And yes there are some original names in their work that I think would fit with the Planeshift GM ideals very well. But even the more memorable ones are hard to remember and would be unnacceptable due to the fact they are remotely recognisable. Ideals are excelent. But don\'t let them obscure a greater vision when building a community. Which is what I suspect planeshift is rather about.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Are you starved for meaning? Make up your own! No need to use something that already exists, in one culture or another. Granted there are words and names that will fit seamlessly into the Planeshift world, but not all of them do, and it is up to the GMs (who are wonderful, trusted people) to decide when someone needs a renaming. I trust their judgment, as do many others.
I am not accusing the GMs of being bad people. They are doing what they see as their job. And that is fine. I just think that the restrictions should be loosed a bit. I am a very creative person. But names etc are perhaps not my strong suit. So sue me if I like to construct names etc from cultural influences, or that have double meanings/entandre. I really like Planeshif and some of the ideas behind it. But I think being to strict with stuff like this could be the death of it. I have followed the project for some years now. And it has recently gotten to a point where I have been letting all my friends and aquaintances know it is getting rather playable. In the past there was either little to do or I was getting some 5 fps at best on my Athlon XP 2500+ Barton and Radeon 8500SE 256Mb with 512MB of ram.
Originally posted by Karyuu
The point is, try not to use it if it\'s a \"plain Earth-name,\" un-fantasy, or belongs to a famous individual or thing or place (whether actual or fictional).
The point is by what measure do we decide that? Some people have strange notions of what \"plain earth names\" are. Moonunit anyone? Dweezel? And it\'s not just the Zappa family. Some of my black friends and aquaintances have a real penache for whipping up some of the strangest unpronouncable names for no reason. Hell if I decided to use Hung Lo someone would probably still find issue with it. :p And where fame is concerned it is all a matter of cultural proximity. What are the guidelines if any on the subject? Is it just up to the individual GM. Or is their some sort of peer review? If we are going to be this strict with the names there needs to be a name faq on the main site that must be viewed before registering. Stating something like \"no common names. no famous names. no names constructed from real words of any culture anywhere at any time.\" etc. It\'s not a case of false advertisement but it is quite a downer none the less....... If this is \"how things are\" lets be up front with it from the get go.
Heck I bet right now there are all sorts of people who think they know what my nick means and are totally wrong. No I am not a big fan of the matrix. And I have never owned or are very fond of cats. To be quite sure the meaning is rather deep and obscure. But somehow unnacceptable none the less. :(
-
And frankly I had something obscure. But because people could read different meanings into it. Well it was not acceptable.
If you think your name fits, you could always present an argument to the GMs. You have the right to at least explain the motives behind choosing whatever name you chose, and they listen to such explanations. If your reasons have true (roleplay!) significance, they may allow it. Otherwise, tough luck.
Ideals are excelent. But don\'t let them obscure a greater vision when building a community. Which is what I suspect planeshift is rather about.
I don\'t think these naming rules are obscuring anything, frankly. It\'s my belief that they are perfect for building just the right, creative, unique, roleplay environment. I also don\'t think that the argument of \"It\'s hard to remember\" works in the slightest - there are plenty, pleeenty of names that seem to \"flow\" and are short of length.
But names etc are perhaps not my strong suit. So sue me if I like to construct names etc from cultural influences, or that have double meanings/entandre.
Those cultural influences do not exist in the Planeshift world, so there would be no reason whatsoever for you to use them. I don\'t really understand why this point would be such a difficulty for many people - Planeshift is its own realm, with its own history, and its own cultures. Whatever OOC cultural references you bring in will be rendered useless IC, and thus they will serve you only in an OOC fashion, which yes ruins the IC atmosphere.
I really like Planeshif and some of the ideas behind it. But I think being to strict with stuff like this could be the death of it.
Naming rules being the death of Planeshift? I highly doubt that ;) The greatly vast majority of players don\'t seem to have any problems with the current rules, and thus it doesn\'t seem as though they will turn people -away- from the game completely.
Some people have strange notions of what \"plain earth names\" are. Moonunit anyone? Dweezel? And it\'s not just the Zappa family. Some of my black friends and aquaintances have a real penache for whipping up some of the strangest unpronouncable names for no reason.
Then they are clearly not \"plain earth names,\" are they? (Moonunit would never work in PS anyway :P)
It is up to the individual GMs to decide if a name is suitable. I cannot recall if the naming rules are posted somewhere, but I do remember seeing something of the sort around. I will check, unless someone else can bring it up quicker.
If we are going to be this strict with the names there needs to be a name faq on the main site that must be viewed before registering. Stating something like \"no common names. no famous names. no names constructed from real words of any culture anywhere at any time.\" etc.
I agree wholeheartedly on this. I think such rules should be in big bold text within the character creation process itself, in the client. It would prevent a lot of tooth grinding ;)
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
Big big no to common names.
Bob? Never.
Biblical references? Come on, at least choose something slightly more obscure ;)
I guarantee that there are names out there that -do- fit in a fantasy setting that are not hard to remember. Nor are names in general hard to think of. Are you starved for meaning? Make up your own! No need to use something that already exists, in one culture or another. Granted there are words and names that will fit seamlessly into the Planeshift world, but not all of them do, and it is up to the GMs (who are wonderful, trusted people) to decide when someone needs a renaming. I trust their judgment, as do many others.
The point is, try not to use it if it\'s a \"plain Earth-name,\" un-fantasy, or belongs to a famous individual or thing or place (whether actual or fictional).
And what is exactly wrong with common names...Some of the names do not fit fantasy settings right...but not all...take my name John...nice and simply name...which unfortunatly I cannot use...due..it being taken. I still think it\'s silly to have First names unique. It kinda...makes me feel bad, when I use some other name...Even though my character\'s name in his youth was Jonneth a\'Thazeer, athough that\'s a long story.
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
I don\'t think these naming rules are obscuring anything, frankly. It\'s my belief that they are perfect for building just the right, creative, unique, roleplay environment. I also don\'t think that the argument of \"It\'s hard to remember\" works in the slightest - there are plenty, pleeenty of names that seem to \"flow\" and are short of length.
I didn\'t say they were in particular. But that being to strict with \"such\" things in general would be a big turn off. And possibly drive many people away. Obscuring the game from a bigger audience that could provide alot more interaction, gameplay etc.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Those cultural influences do not exist in the Planeshift world, so there would be no reason whatsoever for you to use them. I don\'t really understand why this point would be such a difficulty for many people - Planeshift is its own realm, with its own history, and its own cultures. Whatever OOC cultural references you bring in will be rendered useless IC, and thus they will serve you only in an OOC fashion, which yes ruins the IC atmosphere.
Maybe I haven\'t played enough MMORPGs or any others at all. Maybe I didn\'t play enough D&D as a child or at all. Maybe I am off base with thinking what you said is a bit obsessive and quirky. ;) Yeah I definatly think there could be some obtuseness issues where regular people are concerned. :P
Originally posted by Karyuu
Naming rules being the death of Planeshift? I highly doubt that ;) The greatly vast majority of players don\'t seem to have any problems with the current rules, and thus it doesn\'t seem as though they will turn people -away- from the game completely.
The name thing just happened to be on topic to the thread. There is more than just that. But I am convinced it can/will eventually be taken care of for most things. And BTW it is often very hard to determine if something would drive people away. Generally once they are away they don\'t bother to tell you about it. ;) They just go.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Then they are clearly not \"plain earth names,\" are they? (Moonunit would never work in PS anyway :P)
Like I said. Where is the ruler to measure this. If I were a Zappa etc such names might seem plain indeed. Plain just like famous etc is a matter of cultural proximity.
And remember. In order to build a unique culture/world you don\'t have to abandon your native culture/world. Just expand it to encompase others.
-
Yeah this name thing has got the mods uptight.
Don\'t worry, my post here will probably lock this thread too, if they don\'t delete my post.
You can:
a) make a name of just consonants that make no sense and is hard for your friends to remember, much less spell.
b) stay within the rules and choose a name, and 3 weeks later a GM in a bad mood will change it for you.
c) get lucky, and pick a name that only has inuendos in Swahili.
d) just let the game pick your name for you.
Same thing applies for guild names too. Just be sure you approach ALL GM\'s and get their approval before you try to recruit anyone.
Rule #1: Moderators are always right.
Rule #2: When in doubt, refer to rule #1.
-
Teegress I understand you have issues and if you\'ve sent me any information on it I will answer that and hopefully will have it resolved for you. In the mean time please do not add fuel to the fire, we are simply trying to do the best we can.
-
Just to play devil\'s advocate a little, though I definitely agree that many phrases, obsenities, and other names just don\'t belong. But who\'s to say that some sect of the many Yaklium (sp?) cultures would not have similar to the ones we have today. Also who is to say a word with one meaning in the languages of today could not have another meaning in Yaklium, or be a name of no meaning at all. If you really want to be so picky as to prevent all names that might have some remote similarity to words with cultural meaning today, then why not force everyone to learn a language that is only spoken in game. English or any other language for that matter brings a bit of current culture into the game with it just by being spoken or typed.
Of course, one might say that talking to the NPCs, using \"tell me about\" followed by single key words is a different language other than English ;-)
-
Jacob Blarney 3rd, Steven White 4th etc would be acceptable in my book, but I would hope you would have the colorful history that made the 1st and 2nd SO noteworthy to make a 3rd or 4th worth the bother.
BUT...other than that tiny tiney exception, I agree, numbers and names don\'t go well together in the extremely vast majority of cases.
Originally posted by Zan
How about using \"Amh?in Samildanach\" .. it keeps the same meaning more or less and gets rid of that annoying number.
Because I have to agree with Karyuu, numbers shouldn\'t be in any names. Ever seen a real name with a number in? Don\'t think so .. it just doesn\'t work even though many people online use it. I personally can\'t stand it and will be hesitant to talk to anyone who isn\'t original enough to create a name without actual numbers in it.
The other part of your name seems fine to me though.
-
One name I know of that uses the descriptor rules is Bohan, OR Bohand (as it was several hundred years ago), OR Bowman (which gives the whole meaning away). Archer, Taylor, etc.
There is also a LONG line of names that use descriptions of either the baby in question OR where that family lived in naming the child, using older English than we use...of course. But I have to say that they are lovely names how ever they came up with them.
I still like how the Native Americans came up with names. Many tribes had naming rules where you had TWO names in one life time, your born name and your earned name. The born name could be what your mother saw either shortly after she knew she was pregnant or what she saw shortly after birth or shortly before (Two elks, running bear, little foot for a breech baby that lived). And earned name was a title you EARNED, Eagles Cry (your war cry sounds like an eagle\'s cry, OR you just happen to call out your war cry exactly when an eagle crys on too many occassions to discount it), Silver wolf (the creature you met on your spirit journey), Little calling dove (more than likely the name of a rather soft spoken female of less than remarkable looks, but nice dispossion).
With Native American type naming, numbers written out might ALSO come into play, IE nine toes, eleven fingers (Ugh, not a nice story, but more than likely if your tribe was warlike...you would NOT be messed with often!), or Two Hawks (I actually met a guy by this name, his pet name was Hawks, this was his born name, but when he went on his spirit journey...guess who he met...yep, same two hawks...so some born names just might stick).
I would not be TOO disrupted RP wise with a name of an ancient (or recently revived) cultures god/dess, but a name like Billbo, or Lllegoless or fill in the plagerized rarely lived up to book/movie/other games NPC lore character would most likely make me...and many others GAG.
Originally posted by Nekomusume
In regards to using numbers in names... Actually, in at least one language I\'m aware of, it does happen... Japanese.
Several japanese names use \"one\" in them, in various ways - the best example being \"Ichi\", which is simply the number one.
Using the arabic numerals in names is admitadly quite wierd.
some other name related points...
A great many names started off as descriptive terms or job listings - I mean, think about the english family names Smith, Cartwright, Cooper, Mason, Miller, Baker, Farmer, etc.
Most names used in english are actually just words or phrases in other languages (or even just old or middle english), that may have been corrupted somewhat heavily by their use as names in places that don\'t use those languages. The name \"Kelly\" for example, derrives, I believe, from a gaelic word for warrior. In most of the world, I believe that name meanings are generally well known and immediately recognizable. If you name your daughter \"Ai\" in Japan, there isn\'t a person who speaks the language who won\'t know that her name is, litterally, Love.
Certain name elements refer to social status. The name \"Fitz\" actually means bastard (ie. illegitimate child), for example, and would be given to an acknowledged bastard child of an aristocrat.
Then of course, you have surnames like \"Leifsdottir\" or \"Erikson\" which basicly just say who your father was.
Really, when people say \"pick something that doesn\'t mean anything\" - they are going completely against how people have been traditionally named.
-
Solthor= Sol(sun) Thor(Norse god of thunder). And I didn\'t even have to google that one up.
There are reasons to have a name that has a meaning, and I had felt that having a name that means the direct opposite of what you currently are or are like in personality, appearance or dispossion was ironic, but I now understand the \"magic\" behind it. If you claim something often enough, slowly you become it. Sometimes it works, but I have met a few Melody\'s that could NOT hold a tune in a hermetically(air tight) sealed golden bucket, not sure magic would have helped either.
And I have met a Raven or two that was a blue eyed blonde that wore alot of grey...*shrug* or a Jade with blue eyes from England. *shrug* but oddly both names moods fit them(Raven was very Edgar Allen Poe ish, and Jade was serene and tranquil). *shrugs again*
Originally posted by Demarthl
without the one your name sems fine as a surname, It\'ll only get pulled up if someone knows what it means and feels it spoils the game, of which is unlikely.
if oyu have trouble thinking of a name, theres the name generator in the character creation section, handy that, no one sees it though.
also you could ask many of the people who have unique names, or maybe someone who has been renamed already, i can think of plenty of names :)
personally i prefer a name that has no meaning to it at all, and if it does i dont know about it :)
Demarthl for instance, just slapped a few letters together, same with Za\'ek, Pirakika, Kronxek, Solthor... many many names :)
-
I think Lyrah makes some excellent points in the posts. I also think a lot of people put some serious thought into their name before assuming the character. As you brought out in your posts, they have valid reasons (at least to them) for taking on their moniker.
Some people think they are phonetic geniuses and come up with \"cutesie\" type names that really don\'t fit in role play. They might be fine for the irc but \"bigstud,\" \"ipfreely,\" and the likes do not fit in PS, or any role playing game IMHO.
If you stick around PS a bit you will notice that even the \"cutesies\" that do not get noticed by GM\'s, usually do not stay very long, or if they do, they voluntarily change their name because they see they what fits into the community.
I think I would like to see the born/earned name idea used in PS. Come in as either an assigned name or \"Newbie#854\", then after an orientation period, go before their \"tribe\" and negotiate a name they can live with.
-
Originally posted by Lyrah
I still like how the Native Americans came up with names. Many tribes had naming rules where you had TWO names in one life time, your born name and your earned name. The born name could be what your mother saw either shortly after she knew she was pregnant or what she saw shortly after birth or shortly before (Two elks, running bear, little foot for a breech baby that lived). And earned name was a title you EARNED, Eagles Cry (your war cry sounds like an eagle\'s cry, OR you just happen to call out your war cry exactly when an eagle crys on too many occassions to discount it), Silver wolf (the creature you met on your spirit journey), Little calling dove (more than likely the name of a rather soft spoken female of less than remarkable looks, but nice dispossion).
:D Funny you should mention that. I have an an \"earned\" indian name myself from the tribe I am recognised as being a decendant of. The ottowae. (Though to be honest I have alot of lost indian ancestry from several other tribes as well.) I even thought of using it. But I don\'t identify with it much and didn\'t think it would make a good game name. :p I have an ottowae english dictionary handy though. Perhaps I could find something there I can use and overcome the \"rules\" via cultural obscurity. But then that would not be fair to others. :p
-
Err...my charecter\'s name is Caelum Proeliatus, which is latin for, depending on how you translate it, sky warrior or soldier of heaven. Seeing as latin is technically a dead language, would this still count as having real words, or do i have to change it?
-
Originally posted by Nightrogue
Err...my charecter\'s name is Caelum Proeliatus, which is latin for, depending on how you translate it, sky warrior or soldier of heaven. Seeing as latin is technically a dead language, would this still count as having real words, or do i have to change it?
You only have to change it if
1. A GM catches the meaning and thinks it is innapropriate.
2. A GM thinks he knows what it means while getting it completely wrong but still thinks it is somehow inapropriate.
3. A GM thinks it is in refference to a famous work/author/character whether or not it is.
4. A GM feels it simply does not fit in with the rather strict ideals of what a planeshift name should be.(There is no public list of said ideals ATM. But boy do they exist.)
-
I have been up and down and all around with folks on this name thing, and here is the concensus to which I have arrived;
You can NOT use the name at all if it meets the following conditions:
It has reference directly or phonetically to any famous person or event, whether living or dead.
It can not be a description of, nor an assignment of or to, any known person, place or event, whether real or fictitious.
It phonetically makes an understood sentence or phrase in English or a translation thereof, no matter what its meaning.
It sounds or infers any materials or concepts of any modern or space oriented themes.
It can not mock, imitate or ridicule any other character, model or subject used in Plane Shift.
These terms are easily understood by most.
The real hard-liners in this game want you to throw a bunch of consonants together and use that kind of name.
Krywrts Zbynvs is not my idea of a name.
The mavericks in the game want to use names either similiar or exactly like are used on irc\'s.
Whorer Whouser is a creative and to some a humorous name.
Again, not my idea of a name.
What is left is subject to a GM\'s opinion and how he/she feels that day. They started out with guidelines like the above, but to some, God-mode has kicked in and they change whatever they like, for their own reasons, instead of the terms laid out in the original guidelines.
Some recent events may enlighten a few and they may go back to following the original guides. I have a \"wait and see,\" attitude on that.
-
I think it takes a lot of arrogance to mock GMs like that. Let\'s not forget that they not only try to look for inappropriate names themselves, but have other players point out such names to them. I myself submit several petitions daily because of the idiocy I find. I don\'t understand why people just cannot get off their high horses on this naming business, stick to a name the higher ups deem appropriate, and move on. Honestly folks, enough is enough. Frankly, I haven\'t seen anyone doing any renaming except for Cad and Zayek lately, and they are far from the amount we really need in-game.
Guys, a name is only a name. It is your character that matters. So can we please be mature about this and accept the decisions of others?
-
I\'d like to get off the naming business too, but we can not until there is an understanding of the issues and a solution is reached. I am not mocking a GM. I tell the truth. If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.
The only rule about names is: \"Give yourself a name (first name, then a space, then a last name), keeping in mind that it must be a fantasy or medieval style name.\"
No other help or information is given.
Medieval style name? Then it should include Latin names as it was the predominant written language of that time. Animal types, people types and even imagined things of that era should also be included.
And fantasy? No limit in this category. This opens a pandora\'s box. And that is what we have.
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice? Why not just assign the name and be done with it?
-
The name rules are stickied in the General forum. All you need do is read them, Teegress. It\'s so simple, it hurts.
-
Originally posted by Teegress
If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.
I hope that \"young\" was written to state the -experience- level of the GM, not his or her -age-. And even if you were talking about the experience, then you are far, far mistaken about many of them. So why don\'t you stop jumping to conclusions.
The only real suggestion that has been formulated out of this thread is that the Name Rules should be up for review during the Character Selection process. Nothing else is innovating, nor useful.
Medieval style does not necessarily mean that all actual medieval names (Latin included) will be acceptable. It just means the style may be similar. This is not a medieval world, Teegress, and thus \"animals\" of the medieval world do not belong in Planeshift. Planeshift, I repeat, is its own realm.
This is not hard to grasp. I don\'t even know why you\'re still arguing here. Have you been forced to rename your character? Hasn\'t that occured a while ago? Why is this issue still bothering you? It\'s a name. It\'s not as if the GM made you redo your entire character\'s personality :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Teegress
I\'d like to get off the naming business too, but we can not until there is an understanding of the issues and a solution is reached. I am not mocking a GM. I tell the truth. If there are to be rules about names (and I agree in principle) then they should be stated up front for everyone to understand instead of leaving it to the whim of a young GM.
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.
Originally posted by Teegress
The only rule about names is: \"Give yourself a name (first name, then a space, then a last name), keeping in mind that it must be a fantasy or medieval style name.\"
No other help or information is given.
Medieval style name? Then it should include Latin names as it was the predominant written language of that time.
But almost noone was able to write, let alone write latin, so almost noone would have ahd a latin name, save the ones that were used by the romans themselves.
Originally posted by Teegress
Animal types, people types and even imagined things of that era should also be included.
Realistically, who would have named their children \"cow\" or \"donkey\"?
Originally posted by Teegress
And fantasy? No limit in this category. This opens a pandora\'s box. And that is what we have.
What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means. At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.
\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".
Originally posted by Teegress
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice? Why not just assign the name and be done with it?
A while ago I posted a feature request that is somewhat similar to this on the BT.
@Karyuu: well said!
-
Originally posted by Teegress
And as a last resort:
Why even give people a choice? Why not just assign the name and be done with it?
Personally, I\'d prefer to make my own name, as the character is all the more close and special to me.
You see, there are many people who would love to give themselves a personal name which fits within the context of the world, and are willing to do so.
Removing that choice would make the realm... different.
Afterall, when we chose the name, it could be part of the character\'s history, like Darkshade\'s history.
Futhermore, well, I\'d say the character name could fit the personality as well, but the guildelines have been set.
-
Originally posted by Darkblade
Afterall, when we chose the name, it could be part of the character\'s history, like Darkshade\'s history.
Yes, it might. However, it is my impression that in almost all cases, the backstory is made up solely to justify the name that was chosen for OOC reasons (like having a \"cool\" sounding name or whatever), not the other way around. Hence, I think these should be avoided at all costs, because it instantly makes you look bad.
But yes, the guidelines have been set, and they give everyone an easy cop-out to go ahead with names like that. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Seytra
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.
Well said.
But almost noone was able to write, let alone write latin, so almost noone would have ahd a latin name, save the ones that were used by the romans themselves.
I can tell reality history was not your strong point.
Realistically, who would have named their children \"cow\" or \"donkey\"?
Believe it or not, people did.
What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means.
Rolling out the red carpet, I see.
At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.
That may be true, but not \"at best.\"
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.
And how many people read instruction manuals nowadays, anyway. The stickies should be posted in the players guide. A lot of people do not use the forum at all. Not everybody comes in here an RP genius.
\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".
You put so much spin on that, I wonder if even you understood what you meant. But it is your interpretation.
-
Teegress, if all you\'re going to do is make smart comments at people\'s points, you should stop posting. You make yourself sound so immature here. You agree with Seytra with that first quote in your post, so what else is your point? Why are you continuing the snidey remarks when you seem to have nothing more to discuss on the matter?
Regarding \"Not everyone who comes here is an RP genius.\" Of course not. That\'s why we explain to them; point them in the right direction. And if they are decent, calm, friendly people, they will be grateful for the help and move on, learning the rules so they might abide by them in the future. There\'s nothing wrong with breaking an RP rule if you had no idea it existed but then accept that it exists and abide by it without any fuss. Unfortunately, many people refuse to do this, for reasons I\'ll never fully understand. It is those who come causing trouble and play the \"GMs are so unfair omg!\" card, because they just refuse to learn and accept a rule that they were not aware of when they began playing. But that\'s their problem, and their \'rebellious\' attitudes will get them in more trouble.
-
Originally posted by Seytra
The problem are the border cases, which will always be there, no matter what the rules are, because rules can never be precise enough to prevent tricks and stupidity. The only thing that is needed is (un)common sense. If you have any doubts whether what you are about to do is acceptable, then simply don\'t do it.
So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together. Kinda short sighted or myopic isn\'t it?
Originally posted by Seytra
What we have is a bunch of clueless n00bs who don\'t know what RP stands for and what \"roleplay\" means. At best, we have people who have been deranged by other MMO\"RP\"Gs.
No. What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong? Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?
Originally posted by Seytra
Any decent RPer would not need any naming rules, because they would be able to choose a fitting name based on the setting and background. If need be, they would use the name generator without having been told to do so.
Decent? Decent? I pitty the foo that thinks that is decent! When in reality it is only an obtuse overly idealized design for some sort of perfect personal community. One that will always be far from the reality.
Originally posted by Seytra
\"Medieval Fantasy\" must be interpreted as a whole, not the parts. It is not an \"or\", not even and \"and\". It is a classification which is well-known in RP circles. It is a definition of a genre, like \"science fiction\". Medieval fantasy means that it is not our medieval, but simply a state of scientific development that is similar to what was there in our mediieval times. It also means that there are elements that were not present in our medieval, or at least not exactly as they were (like magic).
Again overly simplistic. And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members. Frankly majic in all the varrious forms it has appeared in human history easily covers parallels to those in Planeshift and alot more. Hell advanced technology is magic to someone who does not understand it. Personally I have always been a fan of archaeic universes. And medieval? Medieval what? Brittan? Europe? Asia? Medieval covers alot of ground that would not I suspect be tollerated in the game ATM. In fact my primary character had a name that was basically derived from medieval japan. But I was told it didn\'t fit because it was from some anime. :P
Originally posted by Seytra
Thus, it is a very precise formulation, especially if you look at all the other medieval fantasy RPGs (pen and paper ones, that is). They all show quite clearly what this genre is, and it is nothing like a combination of \"medieval\" and \"fantasy\".
O lawdy! Where to begin....... D&Ders can be quite obtuse. Probably the reason I never fell in with those circles back when I was in public schools. :P Seriously for everyones sake stop thinking you are better than everyone else. Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.
The rest of us? The rest of who, people who can\'t seem to understand rules and keep arguing for something they are not going to win anyway? What are we arguing for, again? I\'ve lost all track of this discussion. Are you arguing against the rules themselves, which have already been posted and are final, or arguing for their fine-tuning, or what?
So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together.
I have very strong doubts that anyone here has such a giant colossal lack of creativity that they cannot think up a name suitable to Planeshift. They can look around the forums, they could peek inside the RP section, they can join IRC channels and ask the opinions of others (GMs included) - there is no such thing as an inability to think of a name. You can even get ideas from the generator, if you don\'t want to use it. I don\'t think there is any excuse whatsoever.
In fact my primary character had a name that was basically derived from medieval japan. But I was told it didn\'t fit because it was from some anime.
If it was derived from medieval japan alone, I don\'t think it would\'ve been a problem. However, the anime really pushed it. I hope you don\'t think the decision to change it was unwarranted :)
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
The rest of us? The rest of who, people who can\'t seem to understand rules and keep arguing for something they are not going to win anyway?
I understand the rules just fine. That is not the issue. The issue is about their aplication and better clarity for those starting out. IE the rest of us or those not to caught up in RP circles. I would think that is something that is very do-able and rather quick and easy.
Originally posted by Karyuu
What are we arguing for, again? I\'ve lost all track of this discussion. Are you arguing against the rules themselves, which have already been posted and are final, or arguing for their fine-tuning, or what?
No not against them. Perhaps a little fine tuning. But most definatly that they should be displayed somewhere a bit more prominently with clear explanation. Perhaps even in client at strategic areas.
Originally posted by Karyuu
I have very strong doubts that anyone here has such a giant colossal lack of creativity that they cannot think up a name suitable to Planeshift. They can look around the forums, they could peek inside the RP section, they can join IRC channels and ask the opinions of others (GMs included) - there is no such thing as an inability to think of a name. You can even get ideas from the generator, if you don\'t want to use it. I don\'t think there is any excuse whatsoever.
I don\'t think it is about a lack of creativity. Just about how that creativity will be interprited. And the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete.
Originally posted by Karyuu
If it was derived from medieval japan alone, I don\'t think it would\'ve been a problem. However, the anime really pushed it. I hope you don\'t think the decision to change it was unwarranted :)
The fact was that anime nowhere entered into the name. It was a romanji combination of two words not specific to any anime either popular or obscure. It was simply felt that it had something to do with some anime somewhere and thus was inapropriate. Honestly one of the words used is not refferenced much in japanese culture today outside of historical refferences or yes perhaps in a general refference in a manga or anime on the period as it is not actually a proper name in it\'s own right. I still question the decision to change it but I am adjusting otherwise.
-
But Ms. Moderator you condone the ones who defend your position with their \"snidey\" remarks. I do not think your action is fair.
I think this thread has gotten off track. It started out about names, but our hard-liners get involved and start explaining what their idea of a perfect RP game is and how Plane Shift will be that game, and how n00bs will make their efforts to spoil the game and so forth.
Whether you want to admit it or not, things are and should be based on some realities.
What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong? Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?
\'nuff said
-
Originally posted by Teegress
But Ms. Moderator you condone the ones who defend your position with their \"snidey\" remarks. I do not think your action is fair.
Who has done that? On this thread? I don\'t see that, but obviously, judging from your other post in another thread, you are implying that I suck up or something, anyway, so whatever I say will not be good.
Originally posted by Teegress
I think this thread has gotten off track. It started out about names, but our hard-liners get involved and start explaining what their idea of a perfect RP game is and how Plane Shift will be that game, and how n00bs will make their efforts to spoil the game and so forth.
Whether you want to admit it or not, things are and should be based on some realities.
Not to mention the hard-liners of the \"Anything goes!\" side explaining why they think RP is basically a definitionless thing and names are not important at all, and that naming rules in general are lame.
Originally posted by Teegress
What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong?
That is the problem, aye. It is accessible to people who don\'t know about RP, and who don\'t give a carp about RP. If you are not willing to roleplay, then get the heck off any roleplaying game!
Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?
I doubt anyone here dresses up as their chars IRL at all... I don\'t do it, anyway. I also don\'t confuse my RL with that VL of my char. However, creating a char as personification of aspects of yourself is not a good thing, either, but do whatever you like as long as you roleplay well and consistently.
By the way, if your name was \"Neo Neko\", then it is not just a little anime. It smells quite a lot of a cross between \"The Matrix\" and the anime genre.
The \"the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete\" itranslates to
\"something that doesn\'t fit within the general context and basically is an expression of personal, completely OOC, likings\". Not at all acceptable.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together. Kinda short sighted or myopic isn\'t it?
Precisely. If you are unwilling to have a name that will fit into the setting, then you obviously are not interested in good roleplay at all. Therefore, yes, you should steer clear of any roleplaying game, because they are not what you want.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Seriously for everyones sake stop thinking you are better than everyone else. Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.
I am already doing that by trying to explain what a good MMORPG is.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Again overly simplistic. And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members. Frankly majic in all the varrious forms it has appeared in human history easily covers parallels to those in Planeshift and alot more. Hell advanced technology is magic to someone who does not understand it. Personally I have always been a fan of archaeic universes.
So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?
Originally posted by Neo Neko
And medieval? Medieval what? Brittan? Europe? Asia? Medieval covers alot of ground that would not I suspect be tollerated in the game ATM.
If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
But most definatly that they should be displayed somewhere a bit more prominently with clear explanation. Perhaps even in client at strategic areas.
I totally agree, and I already have submitted a feature request.
-
Originally posted by Seytra
I doubt anyone here dresses up as their chars IRL at all... I don\'t do it, anyway. I also don\'t confuse my RL with that VL of my char. However, creating a char as personification of aspects of yourself is not a good thing, either, but do whatever you like as long as you roleplay well and consistently.
I think you might be surprised. But the fact you don\'t is a good sign in my book. ;) And what exactly is wrong with creating a character that personifies aspects of a person that for whatever reason may be downplayed or even repressed in day to day life?
Originally posted by Seytra
By the way, if your name was \"Neo Neko\", then it is not just a little anime. It smells quite a lot of a cross between \"The Matrix\" and the anime genre.
No that was not the character name. It appears as if someone is already using neo in game anyway. :P And perhaps this quote from earlier in the thread would be of interest to you.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Heck I bet right now there are all sorts of people who think they know what my nick means and are totally wrong. No I am not a big fan of the matrix. And I have never owned or are very fond of cats. To be quite sure the meaning is rather deep and obscure. But somehow unnacceptable none the less.
It has nothing to do with either one. But due to being tainted by a mediocre cultural icon an otherwise acceptable submission becomes unacceptable because people automatically assume the wrong meaning. Neo\'s name in the movie had a hidden meaning I doubt most people got. Still it does not make it much more than a half arsed attempt at a name. Since Neo is the new incarnation of \"the one\" his name is simply is \"new\". Original eh? Only to be cutsy they put it in a different language. Now that was creative. :P
Originally posted by Seytra
The \"the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete\" itranslates to
\"something that doesn\'t fit within the general context and basically is an expression of personal, completely OOC, likings\". Not at all acceptable
Only because some people deem it so. Not because it is.
Originally posted by Seytra
Precisely. If you are unwilling to have a name that will fit into the setting, then you obviously are not interested in good roleplay at all. Therefore, yes, you should steer clear of any roleplaying game, because they are not what you want.
What will fit is not totally clear. And again you are being quite short sighted and elitist here.
Originally posted by Seytra
I am already doing that by trying to explain what a good MMORPG is.
With an elitist I am better than you somehow attuitude? Indeed. Seems rather unconstructive or perhaps even destructive.
Originally posted by Seytra
So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?
Really? There was not anything that insulting there at all. And if it was somehow insulting perhaps it is because you identify with it in a bad or painfull way. Anyhow I am not going to deconstruct your psyche to try and understand you on this. Whatever hidden issues you have they are yours on that point and not really fodder for the thread.
Originally posted by Seytra
If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.
No not really. Some of the houses on the square have a medeval england look. But then again there are buildings there that don\'t fit that theme at all. And in the next town over it looks like some sort of native american settlement. And what medival lore was heavy with humanoid cats, rock people, and what look like gargoyls that can wander around in daylight? To me the games setting seems alot more diverse than you are implying. But perhaps you are just putting your construction on it. Seeing it as what you preffer to see it as. When clearly to alot of us it is not as black and white as it is to you.
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
It has nothing to do with either one. But due to being tainted by a mediocre cultural icon an otherwise acceptable submission becomes unacceptable because people automatically assume the wrong meaning.
Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.
What happens if you have a name that was constructed from a language you have invented, to mean \"smith\", when suddenly someone slaps together some letters, arriving at the same name and happens to include it in some movie that becomes famous? Exactly, the name is associated with the char in that movie, which makes it unusable, literally overnight.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?
Really? There was not anything that insulting there at all. And if it was somehow insulting perhaps it is because you identify with it in a bad or painfull way. Anyhow I am not going to deconstruct your psyche to try and understand you on this. Whatever hidden issues you have they are yours on that point and not really fodder for the thread.
Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on
And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.
, which would have been the second sentence.
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.
No not really. Some of the houses on the square have a medeval england look. But then again there are buildings there that don\'t fit that theme at all. And in the next town over it looks like some sort of native american settlement. And what medival lore was heavy with humanoid cats, rock people, and what look like gargoyls that can wander around in daylight? To me the games setting seems alot more diverse than you are implying. But perhaps you are just putting your construction on it. Seeing it as what you preffer to see it as. When clearly to alot of us it is not as black and white as it is to you.
This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.
-
Originally posted by Seytra
Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.
An association from the real world that does not exist in the virtual world matters because? Seriously I doubt that anyone in the planeshift world has seen the matrix. I have not seen any theaters around. I concede that someone walking around using \"luke skywalker\" or \"ranma sautome\" is a bit blatant and not acceptable. But I would not see a problem with a mixture of the two. Ranma Skywalker or Luke Sautome anyone? I don\'t see a real problem. I have already discussed the problem inherant with trying to avoid constructing a name that could be construed as having some sort of unintended meaning. It\'s just not possible to do often or with any real consistancy. And on the off chance you suceed it is often not very interesting.
I think if you are spending time trying to construe a specific meaning to a name which has no real relation to said meaning. Well then to craft a response one might expect from you. You are wasting time that would be better spent roleplaying. And are therefore the type of people we don\'t want in game. No not really. Because honestly it takes all types. And more people of all types using planeshift will make it that much more interesting and compelling. Running off those you feel are not worthy etc will only ultimatly hurt you in some way. Not them.
Originally posted by Seytra
What happens if you have a name that was constructed from a language you have invented, to mean \"smith\", when suddenly someone slaps together some letters, arriving at the same name and happens to include it in some movie that becomes famous? Exactly, the name is associated with the char in that movie, which makes it unusable, literally overnight.
No not at all. What if I had it first? I am supposed to change it because someone somewhere else at some other time may have used it in a different context long after I came up with it? That is BS. But it would be a fun way to get revenge on you if I were a vengefull person. Simply take your in game name and create a character or persona that while being totally unrelated becomes famous/infamous. Either one will do. And it would not be especially hard. You would then be \"FORCED\" to change it. Then I would just wait till I found out your next one and cybersquat again adnauseum.
Originally posted by Seytra
Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on
And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.
, which would have been the second sentence.
In what way is that offensive? I was only using your words for the most part. Oh wait....... I get it. You are reading more into it than is really there. Much like names. If that is all you have to be offended at in life count yourself lucky and admit to yourself you may have been sheltered. ;)
Originally posted by Seytra
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.
When you get a point I\'ll let you know. Till then feel free to bable on and wax quixotic. You only make my part that much easier.
Originally posted by Seytra
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?
No. To be brutally honest I am a highly self/college educated, computer skilled, fishmonger. ;) Funny how life works out. I work with a psychology major. :D Some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet. :) I really don\'t care for politics that much. As both republicans and democrats are both delusional and full of themselves. The only difference being that republicans are currently much more dangerous than democrats. :P
Originally posted by Seytra
This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.
Ummmmmmmmmm incorect. It does nothing to prove your statement. At best all that goes to show is what it isn\'t. Not what it is. If we were to get deep into psycho-political babble what you have attempted is basically an example of circular reasoning IIRC. At any rate it is fun to watch you try and imply that because something is \"fantasy\" it must be limited. I think the general consensus of the concept of fantasy is that it is rather limitless or unlimited. Not as you imply.
Strict genera-ism is so passe and booring. Especially when you have the ability to draw inspiration from a community as wide as the internet. Fantasy is what you make of it. Leave yourself open and your fantasy will flourish and grow. Shut yourself off and it will wither and die.
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.
An association from the real world that does not exist in the virtual world matters because? Seriously I doubt that anyone in the planeshift world has seen the matrix. I have not seen any theaters around. I concede that someone walking around using \"luke skywalker\" or \"ranma sautome\" is a bit blatant and not acceptable. But I would not see a problem with a mixture of the two. Ranma Skywalker or Luke Sautome anyone? I don\'t see a real problem.
I seriously hope you are joking! Because if not, you obviously have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes? And as such, the player will have a hard time ignoring the dumb name. Thus, it makes the player lose immersion, the feeling of baing inside a real, consistent world (the game world), by being reminded of things outside that world. Thus, it does matter a whole lot. The sole presence of \"Skywalker\" in the name will surely trigger an association with a large percentage of PS players.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
I have already discussed the problem inherant with trying to avoid constructing a name that could be construed as having some sort of unintended meaning. It\'s just not possible to do often or with any real consistancy. And on the off chance you suceed it is often not very interesting.
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages. Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else. Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway? Why would a PS name have to be interesting, or even be allowed to be interesting? Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS, your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
I think if you are spending time trying to construe a specific meaning to a name which has no real relation to said meaning. Well then to craft a response one might expect from you. You are wasting time that would be better spent roleplaying. And are therefore the type of people we don\'t want in game.
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing. The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
No not really. Because honestly it takes all types. And more people of all types using planeshift will make it that much more interesting and compelling. Running off those you feel are not worthy etc will only ultimatly hurt you in some way. Not them.
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
No not at all. What if I had it first? I am supposed to change it because someone somewhere else at some other time may have used it in a different context long after I came up with it? That is BS. But it would be a fun way to get revenge on you if I were a vengefull person. Simply take your in game name and create a character or persona that while being totally unrelated becomes famous/infamous. Either one will do. And it would not be especially hard. You would then be \"FORCED\" to change it. Then I would just wait till I found out your next one and cybersquat again adnauseum.
No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known. But should you manage, I indeed would change my name, because I do not want to be associated with anything besides the char I have created. I do expect the same off any RPer, yes.
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on
And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.
, which would have been the second sentence.
In what way is that offensive? I was only using your words for the most part. Oh wait....... I get it. You are reading more into it than is really there. Much like names. If that is all you have to be offended at in life count yourself lucky and admit to yourself you may have been sheltered. ;)
You might have used my words, but you most definitely have not used my meaning. The way you put it is meant to imply a negative meaning, and I am 100% sure you knew and intended that. It is common knowledge that people read more into words than is actually written. The text is always read within a context, and this context was highly negative regarding me and the \"ideal RP-circle\", thus it can safely be concluded that you are using it in a disrespectful way.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.
When you get a point I\'ll let you know. Till then feel free to bable on and wax quixotic. You only make my part that much easier.
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?
No. To be brutally honest I am a highly self/college educated, computer skilled, fishmonger. ;) Funny how life works out. I work with a psychology major. :D Some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet. :) I really don\'t care for politics that much.
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL. After all, you could be telling anything here, without risking to be found out. No use in bragging. But you might well wish to consult your \"psychology major, some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet\" on the names and immersion thing, I am sure that he / she will be able to tell you how association works and how it can break immersion. If he / she decides to do a scientific research paper on that subject I will gladly read it.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
As both republicans and democrats are both delusional and full of themselves. The only difference being that republicans are currently much more dangerous than democrats. :P
This applies to almost all politicians in any and all countries in the world.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.
Ummmmmmmmmm incorect. It does nothing to prove your statement. At best all that goes to show is what it isn\'t. Not what it is. If we were to get deep into psycho-political babble
Are we? I didn\'t notice that, but whatever.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
what you have attempted is basically an example of circular reasoning IIRC. At any rate it is fun to watch you try and imply that because something is \"fantasy\" it must be limited. I think the general consensus of the concept of fantasy is that it is rather limitless or unlimited. Not as you imply.
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Strict genera-ism is so passe and booring. Especially when you have the ability to draw inspiration from a community as wide as the internet. Fantasy is what you make of it. Leave yourself open and your fantasy will flourish and grow. Shut yourself off and it will wither and die.
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem. If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up. The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS. Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one. Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.
as I said, the \"fantasy\" argument becomes useless the very instant the background and settings have been defined, because from that point onwards anyone who connects to the created reality will have to accept it\'s limitations. Not doing so is not creativity or fantasy, it is simply unwillingness to adhere to given rules and inability to act within a defined context, proving the person not a brilliant artist, but an utter fool.
-
Originally posted by Seytra
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.
And you are going to be happy about it? I do not believe you would do it as easy as you make out here.
Originally posted by Seytra
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.
You mean, the limitations set by the PS team as seen by you.
Which is back to the root of the name problem. Perceptions. And some of these perceptions are people the \"PS team\" has picked up along the way. I\'m sure the original people did not have everything etched in stone when they started. They should have known things have to adjust. Just look at the original drawings of the characters; very different in the current build.
If this game is going to be open to the people of the world, and the artists and developers are doing this, \"in the name of heaven,\" then RPers should not have to conform to a rigid set of rules developed by a few self-glorified, and calling themselves ideal. If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so. Kick us all out. But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.
-
Originally posted by Teegress
If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so. Kick us all out.
:rolleyes: Will do.
Originally posted by Teegress
But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.
I don\'t see how the term \"open source\" has anything to do with naming rules. I was under the impression that it referred to any program whose source code is made available for use or modification as developers see fit? Maybe you and your cronies can explain this to me?
To state that fantasy should not have any limits is hogwash, frankly. There will always be limits, because a limitless world will not make sense. Names must fit the setting, as Seytra pointed out too many times to count, and names must not have too many obvious OOC connotations. How is this even a problem?
I\'m also rather amused at how only two players are complaining at the moment. Two players, and my my, these strict rules will be the death of Planeshift completely.
-
Originally posted by Teegress
You mean, the limitations set by the PS team as seen by you.
Which is back to the root of the name problem. Perceptions. And some of these perceptions are people the \"PS team\" has picked up along the way. I\'m sure the original people did not have everything etched in stone when they started. They should have known things have to adjust. Just look at the original drawings of the characters; very different in the current build.
If this game is going to be open to the people of the world, and the artists and developers are doing this, \"in the name of heaven,\" then RPers should not have to conform to a rigid set of rules developed by a few self-glorified, and calling themselves ideal. If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so. Kick us all out. But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.
*Ahem*
Guildeline: a line by which one is guided : as
A: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a course
B : an indication or outline of policy or conduct
I\'m not sure where you got the idea that the rules about names are set in stone, but I\'m sure that is not the case.
Planeshift is comprised of Roleplaying as that is the main part of the game, which I believe we agree on.
As for conforming to this environment, yes, you\'ll have to accept that.
As for this little part here: \"If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so. Kick us all out.\"
I\'m in disagreement.
Planeshift was not created by the Rpers, yet, when we decide to play by it, we play by the context of the world set by the developers, because we chose to, by going into this world.
That applies to names too.
If you\'re disappointed about this context, nothing is keeping you here, surely?
The PS team, have only given guildlines towards names. Now, I know there is a fine line between \"acceptable\" and \"non-acceptable\" but we\'re all human beings IRL aren\'t we?
And, I\'d say that is part of the problem in general, except we can\'t help about being who we are.
To state that fantasy should not have any limits is hogwash, frankly. There will always be limits, because a limitless world will not make sense. Names must fit the setting, as Seytra pointed out too many times to count, and names must not have too many obvious OOC connotations. How is this even a problem?
Agreed.
-
Originally posted by Teegress
Originally posted by Seytra
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.
And you are going to be happy about it? I do not believe you would do it as easy as you make out here.
Did I say I would be happy about it? No, I didn\'t, because I wouldn\'t. However, yes, I would change my name. The fact that some people know I had the name before doesn\'t mean that others know. Even if, everyone would still be reminded of the other association, thus the name must be changed.
Apart from that, I do not want to look like a cheap rip-off or imaginationless fool who uses a name from somewhere else. Because this is the way one looks to people.
-
Originally posted by Seytra
I seriously hope you are joking! Because if not, you obviously have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.
No I am seriously not joking. And yet I fully understand what you are talking about. I think the lack of understanding does not originate on my end.
Originally posted by Seytra
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes?
No. Not strictly. The association to the chosen name I had was not implied or intended by me. Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed that it must have a simple/popular meaning. When it didn\'t. It was a concatonation of two non english words which even in their english forms would not be strictly unnacceptable in game.
Originally posted by Seytra
And as such, the player will have a hard time ignoring the dumb name. Thus, it makes the player lose immersion, the feeling of baing inside a real, consistent world (the game world), by being reminded of things outside that world. Thus, it does matter a whole lot. The sole presence of \"Skywalker\" in the name will surely trigger an association with a large percentage of PS players.
If they are that boored that they have ample time to not only make up non-existant external associations to names, but also get miffed about it. Something tells me they are not all that serious about roleplaying. :P Seriously. I am with you when someone uses a non-abstract famous name verbatum. Where you loose me and others is with this obsession of finding non-existant inapropriate external name associations. I think you are trying to hard to be offended.
Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages.
So you mean we have to put in some serious linguistic R&D before we join to play? Wait are we getting paid for this? Major languages? Which ones? What about most of the world who does well to know one? There are people who live not that far from myself who butcher the english language awfully. And they don\'t know any other language. I mean it is one thing for an immigrant to butcher it after speaking another language all their lives. Seriously how many languages do you think most people know? I am fairly educated and I really only considder myself to know one. Outside of programming languages. The sum of all my other spoken language knowledge could barely form a few cogent pharases outside of hello. Though many times I can pick up the general meaning of a few phrases in german, japanese, spanish, french, and even icelandic that isn\'t the same thing as really speaking/knowing them.
Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else.
I am willing to aknowledge that. Here is the issue you are missing. It is going to be \"my\" name. \"Not\" theirs.
Originally posted by Seytra
Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway?
Actually to me it is very. At the basic level it \"is\" me. On a deper one it speaks to part of my history and heritige. And frankly if I had real issues with my name I could change it to anything I want.
Originally posted by Seytra
Why would a PS name have to be interesting, or even be allowed to be interesting?
Why should it not be interesting? Seriously. What rule is there that says it can\'t/shouldn\'t be? Honestly if you were right and we really wanted to solve this issue we would create a language composed of unique unpronounceable ideograps. And then limit people to composing their names from that. Simple. Easy. Fair. No fuss no muss. No one can get offended in uncalled for manners.
Originally posted by Seytra
Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS,
ichi: Not all of us are blessed with multiple personalities. There is generally bound to be some overlap.
ni: There is no rule that says \"OOC\" things have no place in PS. Simply that \"some\" things don\'t.
san: It is people like you who behave like rule nazis that are really the problem. No that is not sufficient to invoke Goodwin\'s law.
Originally posted by Seytra
your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.
That\'s the real problem. You are not humble in any way. Your holier than thou attitude gets in the way of any possible point that you might someday hope to make. It\'s your way or the highway. And what\'s really sad about all of this is that you\'ve no reason to be that way. You are clearly taking major liberties with your interpritation of the rules. And you are not in any real position to \"set\" the rules. No more so than any of the rest of us.
Originally posted by Seytra
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing.
That is the whole point. There is nothing \"bad\" about the names in question. Other than you \"feel\" they were bad. Which is funny considdering you don\'t even know what they were.
Originally posted by Seytra
The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.
I agree. Which is why it is a problem when those like yourself act as you do after someone spends all that time. Just because you \"feel\" it means something it does not.
Originally posted by Seytra
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.
And it\'s just those kind of hurtfull words I am talking about. You act as if you are some sort of authority. You are not. Then to add insult to injury you insist on name calling in conjunction with blanket accusations/assumptions. In using the word \"fool\" did you even bother to evaluate your position? Quite frankly if you have this same attitude in game I think you are far more responsible for ruining the game than any of your so called fools. The difference being that you not only ruin it for real RPers but for everyone in general.
No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known.[/QUOTE]
There are different degrees of fame you gloss over. Anything is equally bad to you. You seriously missunderestimate my abilities legal and illegal. ;) And all the creative ways a creative person like myself could use them. I am rather internet adept.
Originally posted by Seytra
But should you manage, I indeed would change my name, because I do not want to be associated with anything besides the char I have created. I do expect the same off any RPer, yes.
Good for you. You have at least the integrity and courage to stand against a non-threat. And thank your lucky stars that you will not have to worry as far as I am concerned about prooving you a hypocrit.
Originally posted by Seytra
You might have used my words, but you most definitely have not used my meaning. The way you put it is meant to imply a negative meaning, and I am 100% sure you knew and intended that.
Negative? There is nothing there that couldn\'t have been said in a neautral way as it was intended.
Originally posted by Seytra
It is common knowledge that people read more into words than is actually written. The text is always read within a context, and this context was highly negative regarding me and the \"ideal RP-circle\", thus it can safely be concluded that you are using it in a disrespectful way.
No it was a hypothetical way. Because your RP circle is not my circle it is safe to say that one or both of us has idyllic visions of what such a circle should be. I can\'t use those words in a negative fashion which would totally exclude myself. Now can I?
Originally posted by Seytra
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.
The point on your head does not count. \"YOU MAY NOW BE MILDLY OFFENDED\"
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL.
Why ask then? Someone might think you were being disingenuous.
Originally posted by Seytra
After all, you could be telling anything here, without risking to be found out. No use in bragging. But you might well wish to consult your \"psychology major, some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet\" on the names and immersion thing, I am sure that he / she will be able to tell you how association works and how it can break immersion. If he / she decides to do a scientific research paper on that subject I will gladly read it.
First I was not aware that being a fishmonger was something to brag about. Because seriously you have to be college educated to work at mcdonalds these days. ;) Second we did actually discuss this. He was rather of the oppinion that you might be the problem. Take it for whatever it is worth.
Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".
No the meaning was clearly intended by your statements. You imply that the content of limited screenshots limit the scope of the setting and background of an \"incomplete\" game.
Originally posted by Seytra
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.
You are not the PS team. Neither are the GMs. They are appointed representatives. I could someday even become a GM. And I am more than willing to accept the limitations set by the PS devs etc. I accepted a false assumption about my chosen moniker on the part of a GM rather than argue about it at that point. I felt it would be far more constructive to debate the topic somewhere else. Somewhere more apropriate. And here we are. But why are you here?
Originally posted by Seytra
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem.
Excuse me? When was PS ever a PnP RPG? Ok I admit I did toy with using my wacom pad and stylus with the game but it is hardly a pen and paper.
Originally posted by Seytra
If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up.
Untill I see official corroberation of that I am sorry I can\'t accept it.
Originally posted by Seytra
The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS.
A believable fantasy? Almost an oxymoron. Yet it is what you imply. And consistant? I believe that is up to the official team to decide. Not you. You are as ill equiped to decide that as the rest of us are seing the incomplete nature of things.
Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one.
LOL. I have seen similar and stranger things in sci-fi settings. For peets sake the transformers had vehicle and animal forms. It is not out of the question to consider that there were some with household appliance forms.
Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.
First no one was advocating either. Second it is a \"deathstar\" (TM) .
-
Originally posted by Seytra
Did I say I would be happy about it? No, I didn\'t, because I wouldn\'t. However, yes, I would change my name. The fact that some people know I had the name before doesn\'t mean that others know. Even if, everyone would still be reminded of the other association, thus the name must be changed.
Apart from that, I do not want to look like a cheap rip-off or imaginationless fool who uses a name from somewhere else. Because this is the way one looks to people.
People being you and not any general representation of a grouping of reasonable people.
1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop
2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.
3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this. If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides. And you can indeed phrase it in a non-childish etc way you are more than welcome to present your point of view. Otherwise I fail to see what you have constructive to offer.
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop
The naming rules will not change, that I can say with near certainty. There will be no Ranma Skywalkers in Planeshift. They may be fine-tuned and added to so that problems like these will not arise (i.e., the rules will be more detailed with time), but your proposal of an \"open\" fantasy will not take place, because that is not what Planeshift is. Your immediate response, of course: Who the hell am I to stay what Planeshift is or isn\'t. Yet some have been here a \"little\" longer and have become aware of the way Planeshift works. And this is how it works. As it has been stated before - uncomfortable with the rules? Feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This has been told many times to many different people, and all without any problems or regret.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.
This does not mean that it is in the interest of the devs (and the Planeshift world) to attract all types of users. Hack\'n\'slash users will not be welcome, nonRP users will not be welcome, etc., etc.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this. If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides.
Pre-alpha, actually. There will indeed be a character wipe \"soon,\" and by that time hopefully the rules will be made clearer within the client itself. I, personally, don\'t see the point of you arguing in all this :)
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes?
No. Not strictly. The association to the chosen name I had was not implied or intended by me. Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed that it must have a simple/popular meaning. When it didn\'t. It was a concatonation of two non english words which even in their english forms would not be strictly unnacceptable in game.
You are deliberately misunderstanding everything I say. Isn\'t it obvious that I did not refer to the player who chose the unfitting name? Instead I obviously referred to the player seeing the name. Furthermore, your wording of these things
Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed
makes it painfully obvious that you don\'t even grasp the conceptual distinction between \"player\" and \"character\". With that established, there is absolutely no point in arguing any further, because this understanding you have proven yourself to be lacking is fundamental for RP.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages.
So you mean we have to put in some serious linguistic R&D before we join to play? Wait are we getting paid for this? Major languages? Which ones? (...)
Well, isn\'t it funny that you actually put in linguistic knowledge to arrive at the name? Isn\'t it true that you made the name up of words you knew the meaning of in another language, and that you chose them for that exact reason?
All I am asking is that you do exactly the opposite: avoid the words you know that have a meaning in the languages you know. Simple, no?
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else.
I am willing to aknowledge that. Here is the issue you are missing. It is going to be \"my\" name. \"Not\" theirs.
The point you are missing is that everyone will have to see your name, a lot more often than you. Therefore, your name affects everyone else more than it does you.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway?
Actually to me it is very. At the basic level it \"is\" me. On a deper one it speaks to part of my history and heritige.
Hmm, I am actually a but surprised by that. I consider RL names to be random at best. Sure, some name might sound more pleasant to me than others, but frankly, I don\'t give a carp about heritage. After all, it isn\'t as if you or me had ever done anything to make our heritage the way it is. We weren\'t even there, so how can we identify with any of it, or even be proud / ashamed of it?
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS,
ichi: Not all of us are blessed with multiple personalities. There is generally bound to be some overlap.
It desn\'t take multiple personalities to be able to abstract and differentiate character and player. Yes, there will be overlap, but not in having OOC things in names.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
ni: There is no rule that says \"OOC\" things have no place in PS. Simply that \"some\" things don\'t.
And conveniently the things that you want just happen to not be the \"some\", yes? Frankly, you\'re on thin ice there.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
san: It is people like you who behave like rule nazis that are really the problem. No that is not sufficient to invoke Goodwin\'s law.
Yeah, I have been called that before. You might even do a search for \"name nazi\", I\'m sure you will dig up my response to that.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.
That\'s the real problem. You are not humble in any way.
No, I am not, and have clearly said so. IMNSHO stands for \"In My Not So Humble Opinion\". :P
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Your holier than thou attitude gets in the way of any possible point that you might someday hope to make. It\'s your way or the highway. And what\'s really sad about all of this is that you\'ve no reason to be that way. You are clearly taking major liberties with your interpritation of the rules.
Indeed I am. I am taking away the liberties that are meant to be taken away. Rules are there for nothing other than taking away liberties.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
And you are not in any real position to \"set\" the rules. No more so than any of the rest of us.
Indeed I am not, and you can consider yourself lucky about that. Because if I were, the rules would be way more strict. It is no secret that I consider the rules, and especially the level of enforcement to be far too lax.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing.
That is the whole point. There is nothing \"bad\" about the names in question. Other than you \"feel\" they were bad. Which is funny considdering you don\'t even know what they were.
What the original name was is of no importance. We are discussing not a particular name, but improper names in general. Otherwise, you would have had to state what your name was in the beginning.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.
I agree. Which is why it is a problem when those like yourself act as you do after someone spends all that time. Just because you \"feel\" it means something it does not.
How much time did you spend, anyway? I find it rather easy to copy a name off somewhere, or concatenate some words.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.
And it\'s just those kind of hurtfull words I am talking about. You act as if you are some sort of authority. You are not.
Well observed. I am not, nor do I think / claim I am. Still, I do think that I have a lot more base than you. If anything, the fact that your original name has been changed, even by the lax rules and enforecemnt we are having here, shows that my interpretation of the rules is a lot closer to the intended one than is yours.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Then to add insult to injury you insist on name calling in conjunction with blanket accusations/assumptions. In using the word \"fool\" did you even bother to evaluate your position? Quite frankly if you have this same attitude in game I think you are far more responsible for ruining the game than any of your so called fools.
No, in PS, I prefer to roleplay, which is what PS is about, actually.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Neo Seytra
No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known.
There are different degrees of fame you gloss over. Anything is equally bad to you. You seriously missunderestimate my abilities legal and illegal. ;)
Hmm, maybe I do, but it doesn\'t seem like it, actually.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
And all the creative ways a creative person like myself could use them. I am rather internet adept.
If \"Neo Neko\" is your level of creativity, I think noone has anything to fear off you.
As for you being internet adept... well, let\'s just say you might not be the only one, considering that this is the BBS of a game in very early development.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.
The point on your head does not count. \"YOU MAY NOW BE MILDLY OFFENDED\"
:D
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL.
Why ask then? Someone might think you were being disingenuous.
It was a rhetorical question, obviously. :rolleyes: I was trying to imply that your way of arguing had a lot of similarity with the mud-slinging politicians tend to do in order to denounce their opponent without having to argue on the basis of their points, for the simple reason that they don\'t have anything to counter them in the first place, thus resorting to making them unpopular.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".
No the meaning was clearly intended by your statements. You imply that the content of limited screenshots limit the scope of the setting and background of an \"incomplete\" game.
Absolutely they do, but, as I said, in conjunction with the background and setting. They limit the scope of the subset of \"fantasy\" that is applicable to the game, not the scope of \"fantasy\" in general. To be as clear as it gets: they limit the scope of what you are allowed to create within the game.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
You are not the PS team. Neither are the GMs. They are appointed representatives.
Did I say anthing else? No, I didn\'t. Yet, the PS team has set the rules which the GMs are enforcing.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
I accepted a false assumption about my chosen moniker on the part of a GM rather than argue about it at that point. I felt it would be far more constructive to debate the topic somewhere else. Somewhere more apropriate. And here we are. But why are you here?
I am here to explain to you why it does not matter if the assumption of the GM was true or false.
(I am using \"Bill Gates\" as example to make things more clear)
Your argument is this:
\"I never heard of Bill Gates, or maybe I have, but I simply like the names \"Bill\" and \"Gates\", so that\'s my name ingame. Therefore, since I did not chose it due to that Microsoft guy, my name is acceptable.\"
My argument is this:
\"Even if you and maybe a select few other players know that you did not chose the name due to the Microsoft guy, everyone else will not be able to know that, and thus will assume that you did, and even if not, be reminded of him. This being reminded means that they are dragged out of the PS world, if even ever so slightly. Therefore, it hurts other people\'s immersion and thus is an unacceptable name.\"
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem.
Excuse me? When was PS ever a PnP RPG? Ok I admit I did toy with using my wacom pad and stylus with the game but it is hardly a pen and paper.
Another attempt to detract from the argument by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of my words. :rolleyes:
Obviously, PS never was a PnP RPG. However, PnP RPGs are the only ones that have relatively good roleplaying standards. No computer game, be it MUDs or MMORPGs, has ever had these, save PS. Hence, had you been playing a good PnP RPG for some time, experience would have shown to you what I am trying to explain.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up.
Untill I see official corroberation of that I am sorry I can\'t accept it.
You might want to look at the rules section on the main page for once. :rolleyes: That is an official document, and it even explicitely mentions names.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS.
A believable fantasy? Almost an oxymoron. Yet it is what you imply. And consistant? I believe that is up to the official team to decide. Not you.
Yes, and therefore it is also not up to you to decide if your name is proper or not. And AMOF, they have decided, long before you or I ever heard of PS.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
You are as ill equiped to decide that as the rest of us are seing the incomplete nature of things.
No, the incomplete nature does not mean that there can be any big changes without rewriting what is there. In fact, the outlines of what is intended to be in PS are very clear already, and leave very little room for doubt. At best, they leave room for the interpretation of minor details.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one.
LOL. I have seen similar and stranger things in sci-fi settings. For peets sake the transformers had vehicle and animal forms. It is not out of the question to consider that there were some with household appliance forms.
Oh, sorry, I was talking about serious roleplay settings, not about movies for children.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.
First no one was advocating either. Second it is a \"deathstar\" (TM) .
:rolleyes: It is obvious that it was an example. Take dragons and vampires, then, if you must.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop
Well, while it might change, this possibility is vague at best. It is absolutely no basis for you to argue in favor of silly names. Should PS become a SCI-FI FPS one day, I will accept your reasoning, but I would be extremely surprised if I ever had to.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.
The fact is that the devs have repeatedly stated that they do PS because they like to do it, not because of us. They also have stated that they would continue with it even if they were the only ones ever playing it. This basically means they don\'t need any of us, and they will shed not a single tear for any of us leaving. And they most definitely want to attract decent roleplayers, and by far not annyone.
Thus, their and my interst is a roleplaying game that is as good as it can become. Therefore, it is in my and their best interest to keep non-RPers of any kind out of the game.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this.
My reason is simple: the characters will be wiped, but not the playerbase. Thus, what we are doing in PS affects what PS will be like after the wipe, not only by (mis)shaping our characters, but also by attracting the wrong kind of player, or getting the wrong impression into the minds of new players. Therefore, it is mandatory to treat PS and anything that goes with it as if there would be no wipe, ever.
Originally posted by Neo Neko
If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides.
Why would something that doesn\'t align with my beliefs have to be added to official documents in order to make the points I have stated valid in your opinion?
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Otherwise I fail to see what you have constructive to offer.
Indeed. You fail to see it because you are unable and unwilling to accept that your idea of PS is not only not mine, but also not the one of the PS team, which can be concluded from what they state on the mainsite.
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
The naming rules will not change, that I can say with near certainty. There will be no Ranma Skywalkers in Planeshift. They may be fine-tuned and added to so that problems like these will not arise (i.e., the rules will be more detailed with time), but your proposal of an \"open\" fantasy will not take place, because that is not what Planeshift is.
Honestly I think the rules are probably fine. So changing is not strictly necessary. But clarrification etc is all I have ever really been after. But it is still kind of odd you claim to know what planeshift is/will be when you yourself admit that it is incomplete. Calling it \"pre-alpha\" in a later portion of your post.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Your immediate response, of course: Who the hell am I to stay what Planeshift is or isn\'t. Yet some have been here a \"little\" longer and have become aware of the way Planeshift works.
Time can obscure things as well as give insight. Don\'t use the \"we have been here longer so we know how things are.\" argument. It is a double egded sword. I have been in many communities a very long time. Yet I am still learning from them. And I have seen fellow long time members really go awry after they get some skewed vision of how things are. The old expression you can\'t see the forrest for the trees can easily become aplicable in these cases.
At any rate I have followed planeshift for 4 or 5 years now IIRC. I may have not been the most active person and I may have only just registered for the forrum. Don\'t go thinking I am a total newb.
Originally posted by Karyuu
As it has been stated before - uncomfortable with the rules? Feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This has been told many times to many different people, and all without any problems or regret.
Untill I see it official I can\'t accept the claims of the few that think they know better than everyone else. No matter how bad their intentions are.
Originally posted by Karyuu
This does not mean that it is in the interest of the devs (and the Planeshift world) to attract all types of users. Hack\'n\'slash users will not be welcome, nonRP users will not be welcome, etc., etc.
I\'m sorry again I can\'t take the words of biggots as the official stand of the devs. Untill words of equal or similarly bigotry appear on the front/register pages of the official project site I can\'t accept your claims as anything more than you bigoted views. And before you get all upset at my heavy use of the word biggot here it is very aplicable. Others and now your very own words have show classic signs of biggotry, If that disturbs you then change your ways. But don\'t hate the messenger. Becuase there will be others. Honestly up till now I had a bit of respect for you. Elsewhere you seem a bit of a nice person who is willing to help. But that image is now beyond tarnished.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Pre-alpha, actually. There will indeed be a character wipe \"soon,\" and by that time hopefully the rules will be made clearer within the client itself. I, personally, don\'t see the point of you arguing in all this :)
I argue the point because seytra felt the need to argue it. Honestly had it not been for seytra I was more or less done with the thread long ago. And at this time since I think we have deviated from the original thread enough I would like to ask a mod to split and or lock the thread. My point is out there. I am satisfied with that. I think leaving this open will only continue to tarnish the reputation of some of the forrums more visible and possibly respected members. Whether or not I respect them.
Don\'t get me wrong I will still debate this if someone is really interested in such debate. But I feel some are to close to the issue and it could well deteriorate into a flame fest quite easily.
-
I trust the development team is reading this thread with keen interest. This is definitely a discussion between autocrats and people with more liberal ideas.
I truly believe the developers are doing this \"labor of love\" for the enjoyment of others, and not for their own selfish interests. As I would think, the greatest reward for their work would be for more and more people to appreciate and benefit from it. If this were not the case, this would be a closed game and joining would be by invite only, and maybe Seytra, you would have you own little retreat for you and your friends to role play in your own way.
I also think that unless the naming rules are kept reasonable as originally intended, (not a GM\'s interpretation) this game will never grow. But I think that is what you are really trying to achieve, Seytra.
This weekend, i noticed the max on line was approximately 60 people. 60 People in the whole world! I will not mention other game names, but the ones I checked had a lot more people online. Why is that?
Maybe they like the game conditions better than PS and are willing to pay to get the name that suits them or the more common interpretation of role play. Most of us \"fools\" play the games because they are fun, not because we have to listen to a bunch of dominating GM\'s telling us what we can and can not do. A GM even threatened me in a thread. If the developers do not want something to exist; put it in the code. Do not leave it up to hit and miss attitudes in game play.
Originally posted by Seytra
No, in PS, I prefer to roleplay, which is what PS is about, actually.
You keep using the term \"role play.\" You do not need skill attributes, or a graphical setting. Why do you not make yourself an irc channel, dress up in your dominatrix outfit and just sit there and role play with any one who is meek enough to join you?
Originally posted by Seytra
Did I say anthing else? No, I didn\'t. Yet, the PS team has set the rules which the GMs are enforcing.
The GM\'s are enforcing their interpretations, and they sometimes make mistakes they do not want to admit. Like getting \"trigger happy\" with names. I still see nothing wrong with \"Gunrod.\"
Indeed. You fail to see it because you are unable and unwilling to accept that your idea of PS is not only not mine, but also not the one of the PS team, which can be concluded from what they state on the mainsite.
More properly stated:
Indeed. You fail to see it because you are unable and unwilling to accept that your idea of PS is not only not mine, but also not the one of the PS team, which can be concluded from what {you understand}[/b]they state on the mainsite.
-
Originally posted by Neo Neko
Originally posted by Karyuu
This does not mean that it is in the interest of the devs (and the Planeshift world) to attract all types of users. Hack\'n\'slash users will not be welcome, nonRP users will not be welcome, etc., etc.
I\'m sorry again I can\'t take the words of biggots as the official stand of the devs. Untill words of equal or similarly bigotry appear on the front/register pages of the official project site I can\'t accept your claims as anything more than you bigoted views.
Hahah! Honestly, you\'ve been following PS for 4-5 years now and you are still not aware of the fact that hack\'n\'slash and nonRP users are not the target audience? My god. Are you sure you were in the right IRC channel? :rolleyes:
I\'m definitely through with this discussion. Thanks for the entertainment :)
-
I must say that this is rather rediculous, everythiung that needed to be said has been said, yet you still argue.. ah well, can\'t be helped until this is deemed for closure
-
See, here is the perfect example.
This \"person\" has the title of Game Master, yet says foolish things.
You had nothing to offer to this thread, except criticism and ridicule. At least I tried to offer examples and opinions of the thread in my posts. And the other people with dissenting opinions had the courage to state them as such.
I do not know whose ass you kissed to get your position, but you are one of the most ignorant people I have ever met.
-
\"The GM\'s are enforcing their interpretations, and they sometimes make mistakes they do not want to admit. Like getting \"trigger happy\" with names.\"
That is why you take those matters privately to the admins. Because this is exactly how GMs are supposed to function- using their own judgement. If you don\'t like it, you take it higher, in a mature way (which I have yet to see happen, unfortunately).
\"You keep using the term \"role play.\" You do not need skill attributes, or a graphical setting. Why do you not make yourself an irc channel, dress up in your dominatrix outfit and just sit there and role play with any one who is meek enough to join you?\"
Ooooor he could roleplay in PS. PS is geared towards being RP-enforced; it may not be strict right now, but just you wait. Back in MB, there was absolutely no excuse for OOC talk whenever Talad was online, he just wouldn\'t have it, unless you used parenthesis or brackets. And what Talad says, goes- whether some people like it or not. It\'s his game, his dream, his creation. It\'ll be played how he wants. This might make it sound restrictive, but it\'s not. There will be things for hack\'n\'slashers to do. There will be crafting for people who would rather craft. There will be merchants and traders and animal trainers, and they will all be able to play PS and achieve the same levels of success as their peers, just in different ways. But there will NOT be any support for people who want to spend their time shouting about last night\'s football matches, running around with their \"Morpheus Matrix\" characters like they have nothing to do with Yliakum. Hack\'n\'slash is just the profession of a soldier- OOC powergamers are not welcome and never will be.
\"If the developers do not want something to exist; put it in the code. Do not leave it up to hit and miss attitudes in game play.\"
That\'s impossible. Let me grab an explainatory quote for you: \"Only morons could uncover some of this crap because right thinking people don\'t dismount their swoop while trying to call a pet going into a Krayt spawn with orange hotpants AND trying to compose a new email at the same time.\" As this hopefully highlights, we can\'t possibly think of EVERYTHING the general public might come up with that could be unsuitable. The rules are guidelines, and then GMs enforce them on a case-by-case basis. As Karyuu says, this has+will NEVER change.
\"As it has been stated before - uncomfortable with the rules? Feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This has been told many times to many different people, and all without any problems or regret.\"
Neko wanted to hear this stated officially, so here you are. Karyuu is completely right. If you don\'t like it, go. We get to keep the pick of the crop; the mature, intelligent people who can see why rules are needed and how RP must be enforced just like anything else. The bad apples who can\'t stand this won\'t be missed, and we don\'t need to beg them to stay or make compromises to accomodate them.
\"This weekend, i noticed the max on line was approximately 60 people. 60 People in the whole world! I will not mention other game names, but the ones I checked had a lot more people online. Why is that?\"
Well its certaintly not because of naming rules. We may rename tens of people every day, but we get hundreds of visitors in that time. And then, only a couple of the people we rename have any problem with it at all. No, the reason we don\'t have many people online at a time is because there is nothing to keep them ingame. Quests broken, monster spawns disappearing, awkward movement, etc. It\'s not fun as a game. But again, those who see past it, stay. Those who understand and accept the naming policy, stay. Those are the people we want here, and those are the people that have stayed in the past, that are here with us now.
Anyway, I totally agree with Zayek, this needs to be closed. And Teegress: cut the personal insults, will you? Zayek is hardly the most mature person here, but his maturity has by far been proven above yours in recent events.