PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: hook on June 01, 2005, 11:16:02 am
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I was wondering how to address a Kran that\'s not present, since they don\'t have a sex/gender.
Too bad the english language doesn\'t have a neutral grammatic gender. :/ And using \"it\" would appear a bit disrespectful towards the Kran person (being usually used for things).
I\'m thinking we should invent a new word for it for the use in english and other similar languages. In the languages which do have a neutral gender we could just use that one, I guess...
Any suggestions?
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You could always ask them whether they are inclined to be personified as either male or female and then talk accordingly
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Originally posted by hook
Too bad the english language doesn\'t have a neutral grammatic gender.
Technically \"one\" is the word you\'re looking for but no one uses it like that and it really sounds stupid. In French (if I remember correctly) they use their work for one in cases where gender isn\'t known or doesn\'t matter.
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According to my memory (and the dictionarys I\'ve checked) \"he\" can/should be
used in a generic sense or when the sex of the person is unspecified
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Das, es, etc all mean the same as \"the\" or \"it\" auf Deutsch. I don\'t see why \"it\" is unacceptable. I think it might be due to the fact that a living \"it\" is rarely encountered in nature whereas in Germany various words like Maedchen or uh....*can\'t remember any other neuter words for living beings* Anyway, the word \"it\" simply isn\'t used the same way, but that is what \"it\" means ;)
I think \"it\" is perfectly fine because it goes with the character. I mean, you call amoebae \"it\"s, do you not? You\'d call bacterium \"it\" or a multitude of them \"they.\" Sure, they are lower organisms on the scale of complixity, but they are still asexual. I\'m sure if foxes were asexual, they\'d be called \"it,\" too. You just don\'t see very many complex organisms with asexual reproductive habits on this Earth.
You could also be inventive and use phrases such as \"My friend Beeblebrox, the finest example of Kranfolk I know...\" Have a bit of fun with it. If you know the player\'s true gender, try not to let it slip unless you\'re OOC.
We could go the Japanese route and forego articles altogether? XD \"Hello, sir.\" = \"Hello, Kran.\" \"This Kran is my friend. (he/she/it [not needed]) Always keeps me laughing!\" \"Well, well, you look rather tired, my friend!\"
You could always replace \"sir\" or \"madame\" with \"my friend,\" \"Kran,\" or something just as appropriate, yet still neutral.
~Indi
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In english, according to the dictionary, \"it\" refers to \"a nonhuman entity; an animate being whose sex is unspecified, unknown, or irrelevant; a group of objects or individuals; an action; or an abstraction\". So, yes, a Kran is an \"it\". Except that it is normally used for animals, and can therefore be considered insulting by some. For a person whose gender is unknown, \"he\" is normally used. This usage already has problems without any Kran around.
Basicly, whatever you are going to use, someone is going to be insulted.
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Originally posted by Manar
Basicly, whatever you are going to use, someone is going to be insulted.
Welcome to the wonderful world of political correctness. Please check your sanity by the door. :P
~Indi
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it is for a person when you dunno his gender... It\'s the explanation an american gave to me lol. But I think you are not ok with his mind...
What about french word? I dont get it? It\'s interressing me. :D
So I thinkif someone want to speak about a kran someone could use \"the kran\" or what\'s better in my mind... his name. When you are in front of him you could use \"you\" and stay polite :D and... that\'s all lol
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I don\'t see a problem here, did any kran voice it\'s opinion yet? :D And consider the fact that kran are pretty much cold dead boulders, magically animated.
You just don\'t see very many complex organisms with asexual reproductive habits on this Earth.
A forest of poplar isn\'t big or complex enough? :P
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Originally posted by lynx_lupo
A forest of poplar isn\'t big or complex enough? :P
I don\'t know about you, but I don\'t talk baby-talk to a tree or view it as a conscious being aware of its surroundings.
Tree-huggers, on the other hand... :P
~Indi
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As a kran i can say i don\'t really care what someone calls me. When i speak to someone who knows me, that someone knows how to adress the other side.
I can understand the point of discussion, but language doesn\'t make it a problem when in a normal conversation.
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Sorry, didn\'t want to start a flame-war.
Why I think \"it\" is not good:
I have a dog, and probably some of you guys also have a pet. I don\'t call my dog \"it\" and I\'m pretty sure very few call their pets \"it\" ...and Kran being more then just pets ...well, put two and two together.
On the matter of political correctness, I\'m not really into all that stuff. Some might remember that thread about Krans being similar to KKK in appearance (yadda yadaa...) ...well, I don\'t want this to go ANYWHERE near that extreme.
Actually I really was just curious what the community thinks how a Kran should be addressed...
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Oh, just remembered this:
\"one\" is used for a undefined person disregarding the gender, but also disregarding the person. More exactly it\'s used for an unknown person or the general public.
example: \"One should tie one\'s shoes\".
What I\'m looking for is a gender-neutral (or a neutral gender) word for a known person.
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\"one\" is used for a undefined person disregarding the gender, but also disregarding the person. More exactly it\'s used for an unknown person or the general public.
example: \"One should tie one\'s shoes\".
Should be more like \"One should tie their shoes\", however back in the medieval days, people didn\'t have shoelaces. They just took a long string of animal intestines and tied it around the leather on their feet (all the way around it). So I\'m pretty sure they would\'ve noticed if they had forgotten it. Nonetheless, since we can all agree Kran\'s have a pretty masculine figure, they most likely have a male person controlling them IRL, and that they are of a non-gender race, we\'ll just call them \"he\", unless we\'re insulting them on purpose. Then we would call them \"it\".
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Originally posted by Kiva
Should be more like \"One should tie their shoes\"...
Actually, I believe this would be incorrect since \"their\" is the plural form of \"your\" (You should tie your shoes vs. They should tie their shoes), so \"one\" would make more sense in that context since you would be speaking about an individual in that case.....
It would be the same as saying \"It should tie their shoes,\" which would sound to me like something should be tieing the shoes of a bunch of people. >.>;
Anyway, I suppose more folks think \'he\' is appropriate. Personally, if I don\'t know the gender of an infant, I\'ll ask the mother \"Is it a boy or a girl?\" and I\'ve never had a lady recoil in horror telling me I\'ve insulted their child. I sort of figured the same thing would work in the Kran situation, but I suppose Kran characters are more often played by males than females who would have definite gender roles both in and out of character.
/me shrugs
~Indi
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Well, you asked for suggestions. I propose \"ka\" as third person singular pronom for genderless persons. Deklination is \"kir\". AFAIK those words have no meaning in englisch or any other language. But my knowledge on language is very limited.
Another could be iit, ait, ayt or something similar close to \"it\".
Regardless of your choice (it, he, a made up word) i suggest campaigning for it with stories in the roleplay forum. Beside the ingame use.
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As a Kran I don\'t really care of how anybody could call me, but as a french guy i don\'t really know how to say it in another way, actually we\'re used to say \"lui\" and \"elle\" for \"him\" and \"her\",\"il\" and \"elle\" for \"he\" and \"she\", and we do not have any neutral gender even to talk about object (for example a bottle is told like a \"femalle\" object -> une bouteille and a knife will be a \"male\" one-> un couteau). But in french scool we\'re used to learn that \"it\" is reseved for animals too, and i think that french peopple playing as Kran won\'t understand why they\'re qualified as animals.
So I think the cretion af a new word is the solution, I agree with Zinder in the choive of \"ka\" for the singulars and kir for the plural of it ( \"it\" meaning the word not the Kran ;) ).
why do not ask this as a survey?
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Why is there all this confusion? Just call the person his/her username. (uh oh I just used \"he/she\") But still, just say,\" and whatever you want to say.\"
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In roleplay, generally you do not know a person\'s name until they give it to you.
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* MornGlawar looks at the people who are chatting. His eyes look like insomniac\'s eyes who doesnt sleep since 5 days. He feels bad and very tired... suddently he says:
boring
* and falls down on the pavement
* his left arm raises
Why not calling them with their rl gender?
* and the arm falls down too
ronffffllllll zzzzZZZZzzzZZzZZZzzZZZZZzZZZzZZZZZzzzZzZZZzzZZZ
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Originally posted by fken
Why not calling them with their rl gender?
And you would know what it is... how?
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Just do what I do when I don\'t know someone\'s gender.
Behold:
I just saw a Kran, I don\'t know what gender it is. So I refer to it simply as \"That idiot\". For aren\'t we all idiots?
Especially those who play Krans, those who\'d prefer not to have a gender? :)
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Diclaimer: all posts made by Ajdaha are jokes and are written in good humour, don\'t take anything he says seriously. I will not be blaimed for broken hearts and/or, dreams.
I suggest you write your signature on capital letters, or colorful ones. Add lights around so you\'re sure that anybody actually misses it before replying :D