PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Efflixi Aduro on June 14, 2005, 01:11:17 am
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Michal Jackson was announced Not Guilty of all charges today if you havn\'t heard the news yet. I just fineshed watching a confrence with the jury.
So, any thoughts or oppinions about this?
I personally think he didn\'t actually molest the kid but he didn\'t have exactly normal conduct with the kid either.
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He\'ll never be guilty. He\'s got cash.
Just lock him up already, my gosh!
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Originally posted by Uloim
He\'ll never be guilty. He\'s got cash.
Are you serious? What rock have you been living under if you don\'t know that he is dangerously close to being bankrupt? :P
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bah, just wait till the ozone breaks up some more, that plastic\'ll melt :)
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Originally posted by Demarthl
bah, just wait till the ozone breaks up some more, that plastic\'ll melt :)
Why else would his nose fall off. ;)
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a) He\'s crazy, but that isn\'t breaking any laws.
b) 100 years ago, sleeping in the same bed as a child was perfectly normal. It\'s only recently that people think that sleeping in same bed = sex.
c) So yeah, not guilty sounds fine to me.
d) And yes, he might need to either make another record or sell some stuff to pay for everything.
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but it\'s not the first time a child accuse him... is it?
I dunno a lot about this issue because in fact... I dont care about Michael Jackson... He is a singer... simply a singer. He had a bad childhood (rumours said he has a bad father I think... in fact I know nothing precisely about that) and he made his skin turned white thank to amazing doctors (ready to do everything for money...). His face is now a disasters... but the doctors have their money...
So as you created this thread explain now what\'s happened! We wanna know!
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i never really watched the trial or anything about it...
i used to think he was cool... some good music... good dance moves
now, i don\'t know what to think...i want to beleive he\'s innocent... and i actually haven\'t seen any evidence or anything for the accusations (although like i said i haven\'t been paying attention that much to the trial)... but there is no way for me to know that he didn\'t commit the crimes either... people do some sick things...
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It\'s unproven whether he actually turned himself \'white\' by choice. He claims that it is a rare skin condition, which is why he can no longer go out in the sun without the protection of an umbrella. I doubt someone would do that to themselves on purpose, however crazy one may be. :P
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Originally posted by Moogie
Originally posted by Uloim
He\'ll never be guilty. He\'s got cash.
Are you serious? What rock have you been living under if you don\'t know that he is dangerously close to being bankrupt? :P
ahahahaha no really \"What rock have you been living under\" everytime you hear his music played on the radio, t.v he gets paid...this crap about him going bankrupt is a load of garbage started by the media. The amount of money the pop king brings in is unimaginable, the guy will never be broke...and if by some weird event he does all those high celebrities that took the stand on his behalf will lend him a few million.
My opinion on the verdict well its simple innocent until proven guilty and not guilty it is. So whether or not he is guilty it doesn\'t matter because he got away scott free
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Originally posted by Moogie
It\'s unproven whether he actually turned himself \'white\' by choice. He claims that it is a rare skin condition, which is why he can no longer go out in the sun without the protection of an umbrella.
This skin condition is called vitiligo and it\'s not so rare, apparently it affects about 1 to 2% of the world population. Possible treatments include depigmentation (often when more than 50% of the skin is affected). Jackson has never provided any medical evidence about that (not that he has to, albeit to quiet his detractors).
Anyway, if you want to read about vitiligo and the plight of a genuine sufferer who eventually had to undergo depigmentation, there is this BBC Radio article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/skindeep.shtml) (there\'s a link to the audio programme at the bottom of the page, it proves to be both enlightening and moving).
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has anyone sincerely followed this?
Personally, I don\'t give a damn ... the whole thing was so made up and show ...
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I\'m glad that he didn\'t go to jail, all the more peaceful this world would be. Good thing the cameras are of him, I\'m sure if he went to jail some producers would find a way to make money of it by filming him there. It would just annoy me even more, so be happy that he\'s free and noone cares about him anymore. Frankly I hate celebrities, they are scum and none of them are cool, noble or wise. Just looking at that hillbilly Tom Cruise makes me wanna commit genoside on every single person on TV. Fame is nothing to be proud of, you are lowly examples of humanity (or at the most, average (no acting talents)) and we see that you are. Too bad that you dont.
There are some actors that are exceptions but those are people that aren\'t all about the media and don\'t agree to every single film they get handed. Those that choose the image they want to portray of themselves.
*sigh...
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@ajdaha: Did you said something like :
You are happy because he isnt in jail (even if he was guilty?). And did you explain your point of view by saying you dont want someone film him in jail ?
OMG look at his face and imagine what a child could feel if he is raped by him! It\'s not because you like his movies that you can say he could be unpunished! I think you wanted to say you are happy to know he is not guilty... because you think about the child and you are happy to know he wasnt raped... isnt it true?
@nada: so it\'s not a chirurgical operation issue? grrrr now I have to find in my memory who said that (but I know a lot of people said that to me in my childhood)... I hate the liars...
/me ask to his friends : hey where is my baseball bat?
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Why do we care? It\'s embarassing that we have any concern at all for jackson\'s current state, but we do anyway, and the media covers it constantly.
Personally, I don\'t get it.
fken: I think he was saying that there would be riots/demonstrations if he had been found guilty. And more media coverage.
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I have concern as an individual, who used to absolutely worship his every move back in the 80/90\'s. His career has never been about money or fame. His music was ahead of its time in that it stirs a political message, something moving and meaningful, to millions of people in the world, which is why he became so popular. That, and his incredible dance talent.
I find it difficult to take people seriously when they scoff at his current image. Yes, I\'ll be the first to admit, he looks terrible. But I guess not all plastic surgery goes how you want it; and when you\'ve got money to burn, as he had, you\'ll probably want to keep going back, to try and get it right. Think about it... you\'re in the media constantly, always in view of the public. If you\'re shy, and have low self-esteem, you\'ll want to look appealing to these people, because you\'ll care what they think.
Unfortunately for him, it just got worse. And people pounce on him as if he\'s the only celebrity to have undergone such surgery... uh, wrong. He\'s probably had the least face work done out of all of them. The only difference is, you can see it. I can\'t imagine how the poor guy must feel.
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Originally posted by Monketh
Why do we care? It\'s embarassing that we have any concern at all for jackson\'s current state, but we do anyway, and the media covers it constantly.
Personally, I don\'t get it.
fken: I think he was saying that there would be riots/demonstrations if he had been found guilty. And more media coverage.
personaly I dont watch tv anymore... news arent objective anymore then I dont care about news. I just heard Mickael Jackson had another problem with the justice because of another child raping accusations...
So if someone speak about it here I just ask for more informations. What\'s exactly the facts ? Because when I read what\'s here... Im wondering if someone really know anything...
@Monketh: I understood what he meant but the way he said it was horrible...
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Originally posted by fken
So if someone speak about it here I just ask for more informations. What\'s exactly the facts ? Because when I read what\'s here... Im wondering if someone really know anything...
Check the BBC\'s In Depth report (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/entertainment/2005/michael_jackson_on_trial/default.stm) .
Originally posted by fken
so it\'s not a chirurgical operation issue? grrrr now I have to find in my memory who said that (but I know a lot of people said that to me in my childhood)... I hate the liars...
fken, I don\'t want to argue with you (lest I should end up in hospital). Obviously, he underwent extensive plastic surgery. However from what I know (from Google searches), you cannot change your complexion through surgery, long term depigmentation results from the application of monobenzone-containing products or laser treatment.
Originally posted by Moogie
I find it difficult to take people seriously when they scoff at his current image. Yes, I\'ll be the first to admit, he looks terrible. But I guess not all plastic surgery goes how you want it; and when you\'ve got money to burn, as he had, you\'ll probably want to keep going back, to try and get it right. Think about it... you\'re in the media constantly, always in view of the public. If you\'re shy, and have low self-esteem, you\'ll want to look appealing to these people, because you\'ll care what they think.
Unfortunately for him, it just got worse. And people pounce on him as if he\'s the only celebrity to have undergone such surgery... uh, wrong. He\'s probably had the least face work done out of all of them. The only difference is, you can see it. I can\'t imagine how the poor guy must feel.
I agree with you though not about him having the least face work.
There is this website (http://www.awfulplasticsurgery.com/archives/cat_scary_celebrities.html) (not particularly tasteful but enlightening nonetheless) which records celebrities\' botched plastic surgery. Some of them are scarier than Micheal Jackson.
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Originally posted by Nada
Originally posted by fken
so it\'s not a chirurgical operation issue? grrrr now I have to find in my memory who said that (but I know a lot of people said that to me in my childhood)... I hate the liars...
fken, I don\'t want to argue with you (lest I should end up in hospital). Obviously, he underwent extensive plastic surgery. However from what I know (from Google searches), you cannot change your complexion through surgery, long term depigmentation results from the application of monobenzone-containing products or laser treatment.
where would the argumentation be?
*fken cleans his baseball bat.
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Slightly off topic.
Moogie loves Michael, Moogies loves Michael!
Moogie and Michael sitting in a tree, K I S S I N G!
First comes love
Then comes marriages
Then comes a baby in a test tube carriage!
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I also personally don\'t care about the verdict, I just want the media attention to wane. I\'m also pretty sure he might have molested children before, I just don\'t know how badly.
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ok his complexion has changed because his pigment in his skin died off.
my friend has the same thing (to a lesser extent) where pigment turns white. which is why he wore for a while a bandana over his face whilst the pigment was changing on his face.
he had to get plastic surgery on his nose because his hair caught on fire with stage fireworks (which is re-constructive surgery)
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*sigh* Can you guys ever NOT turn somthing into an argument. I wanted a discussion on weather Michael was/is guilty or not and why you thought so. Not why his skin is pale.
Now, back on topic. I found the jusry to be very... how should I put this... lame. They where all people that you just know have no lives and were doing this to see Michael. Now, the real quesiton I\'m asking myself here is: \"If this wasn\'t about Machael Jackson but some avarage nobody. would the outsome still be the same?\" And, honestly, I would say that\'s a big fat NO.
I think they would have been better off picking out some random people in tribes in Africa who have no iidea who Michael Jackson is, teach them English, and bring them here to be the jury. Now, I\'m not saying that he\'s guilty but this thing was totally biased.
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Dude, how do you know about the jury?
I think someone (Fken?) asked me before to explain what I posted.
What I will do is say that, I really couldn\'t give a horses backside what happened tot he kid, oooo, he got a half black, half white stick stuck up his backside.
OOOOO
Is he effin\' dead? Is he missing an eye, a leg or watever. No injury right? Why do you feel sorry for him so much, with so much death in the world, why the hell would I care what kid gets what stuck up his hole? He\'s a man, and if he has any balls he\'ll get over it. If it happened to me I wouldn\'t go around sewing the dude and showing everyone how stupid I am. I wouldn\'t want anyone to know a guy\'s wang touched me anywhere. I\'d just beat the shit out of Micheal Jackson and ruin his life and threaten to black-mail him. Of course, a guy like me would never get attached to a 50 year old freak of nature like michael jackson anyway.
PS: he sings like Britney Spears.
And I stick to my previous post, I\'d rather he wouldn\'t go to jail. I\'d rather he went to the crack-house. Cause that\'s where he belongs. Him and all the other celebrities of the world.
Except Al Pacino : )
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Originally posted by ajdaha
Dude, how do you know about the jury?
I think someone (Fken?) asked me before to explain what I posted.
What I will do is say that, I really couldn\'t give a horses backside what happened tot he kid, oooo, he got a half black, half white stick stuck up his backside.
OOOOO
Is he effin\' dead? Is he missing an eye, a leg or watever. No injury right? Why do you feel sorry for him so much, with so much death in the world, why the hell would I care what kid gets what stuck up his hole? He\'s a man, and if he has any balls he\'ll get over it. If it happened to me I wouldn\'t go around sewing the dude and showing everyone how stupid I am. I wouldn\'t want anyone to know a guy\'s wang touched me anywhere. I\'d just beat the shit out of Micheal Jackson and ruin his life and threaten to black-mail him. Of course, a guy like me would never get attached to a 50 year old freak of nature like michael jackson anyway.
PS: he sings like Britney Spears.
And I stick to my previous post, I\'d rather he wouldn\'t go to jail. I\'d rather he went to the crack-house. Cause that\'s where he belongs. Him and all the other celebrities of the world.
Except Al Pacino : )
I would like to see you reply with easy words because you are using specific expressions and then I just read you think the child must shut up even if he was rapped because you find he looks stupid... Off course I think this is not your mind then I\'ll ask you to rephrase... again.
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Originally posted by fken
Originally posted by ajdaha
Dude, how do you know about the jury?
I think someone (Fken?) asked me before to explain what I posted.
What I will do is say that, I really couldn\'t give a horses backside what happened tot he kid, oooo, he got a half black, half white stick stuck up his backside.
OOOOO
Is he effin\' dead? Is he missing an eye, a leg or watever. No injury right? Why do you feel sorry for him so much, with so much death in the world, why the hell would I care what kid gets what stuck up his hole? He\'s a man, and if he has any balls he\'ll get over it. If it happened to me I wouldn\'t go around sewing the dude and showing everyone how stupid I am. I wouldn\'t want anyone to know a guy\'s wang touched me anywhere. I\'d just beat the shit out of Micheal Jackson and ruin his life and threaten to black-mail him. Of course, a guy like me would never get attached to a 50 year old freak of nature like michael jackson anyway.
PS: he sings like Britney Spears.
And I stick to my previous post, I\'d rather he wouldn\'t go to jail. I\'d rather he went to the crack-house. Cause that\'s where he belongs. Him and all the other celebrities of the world.
Except Al Pacino : )
I would like to see you reply with easy words because you are using specific expressions and then I just read you think the child must shut up even if he was rapped because you find he looks stupid... Off course I think this is not your mind then I\'ll ask you to rephrase... again.
I think he means big deal if the kid got raped. To which I would reply, you\'re a dumbass if you think that.
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FESFES now your wandering into a world you don\'t want to go back into, everyone has a right to their opinions and giving that kind of response because you don\'t like theirs is alittle uncalled for...so just settle down and go play some metallica before i come over there with the whomping stick :P
Michael Jacksons deformed ugly monkey who probally had several child encounters not brought up there you go
THE END
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Originally posted by ajdaha
What I will do is say that, I really couldn\'t give a horses backside what happened tot he kid, oooo, he got a half black, half white stick stuck up his backside.
Uh-huh... Historically pedophilia has always been very truamatizing to the victims. (Very few actually do come out about it until years later.) To have no compassion or poke fun should this have actually happened isn\'t being tough, nor is it being male, macho or masculine. It\'s simply being a jerk.
I don\'t care who or what you support, it ain\'t right, it ain\'t funny, and it ain\'t something that just goes away.
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hehehe....
I never thought he was actually guilty, not necessarily innocent, but not guilty. He has a psychological condition that forces him to want to relive childhood (and who can say they didn\'t have a sleepover with friends of the same sex when they were pre-teen?)
Yeah....
I just find it funny, he was nearly bankrupt (Moogie is correct here, he might have a massive mansion, but he\'s deeply in debt to many people) but now he\'s going to sue many people for deformation of name like ITV (over here in the UK, but the tabloids and things in the states as well).
And the funniest thing is he\'ll win these lawsuits as well.
Oh well, maybe he\'ll have the money now to get some proper plastic surgery done than the two-bit crap he\'s had done to his face.
Hehehehehehehehehe, silly world.
/me retreats into his own non-crazy world of pink elephants and fluffy periwinkle-coloured dragons
Xirius
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Well to start off with, i dont think he was guilty. If you followed the actual trial instead of the million other irrelivant bits of information the media likes to focus on (his skin, his money, etc), then i think you\'d tend to agree that he is innocent. The mother who took the action against him had a previous history of lying in lawsuits and cheating welfare, which was established without doubt, she even addmitted it. Not to mention that she claimed she was being held prisioner yet still managed to go out on the town and spend jackson\'s money. For a crinimal prosecution to succeed, they must prove beyond reasonable doubt that the alleged incident occured; once the myraid of doubts about the accuser\'s character came into play, this was never going to happen.
As for Jackson\'s financial matters, he is deeply in debt, but of course he does have alot of collateral and he does still have a decent income from royalties and other sources. He still managed to spend an estimated $5 million on legal fees during the trial.
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What I think is that our whole society looks at sex the wrong way.
If you think about it as just another starnge action that people do, it\'s not really much that happened to that boy.
Sure, the strangeness of the whole thing must have been traumatic for him, but he didn\'t suffer that deeply, not physically. And I think that the kid should get over it, so should the whole world, looking at sex in such an alien way. Its an action, just like any other action, there is no need to call it taboo or anything. Of course, anything damaging towards children is taboo, thats why there is rarely child-violence in computer-games, I\'m not gonna argue wether that should change, cause it shouldn\'t. But this outlook towards sex as something humans should be above or watever, is wrong. Its just another action, that shouldn\'t really affect anyone who thinks clearly and logically about it.
I don\'t mean to be a jerk, but its just what I think is true.
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Originally posted by ajdaha
What I think is that our whole society looks at sex the wrong way.
I realize something odd thank to 9/11: when something bad happen in USA, US citizens think everyone is touched!
I mean when the plane crashed into the WTC, CNN said \"the world has changed\" and some phrases like this one... In fact, I knew absolutly nobody in the WTC, I dont care about dow Jones or even cac 40 and almost at the same time another drama was touching a country in Asia... So... 9/11... wasnt really in my mind...
And now you are saying exactly the same as CNN. \"our whole society\" ... do you really think every countries in the world look at sex like yours? Im even not sure every american states have the same vision about sex... In France, people laught at USA because in some states some sex positions are forbidden. So every american states dont look at sex with the same mind (the law isnt the same in each states!).
Then, do you really think a child will choose to make love with an adult? The real first problem is that a child wont choose anything!
Then I think you are a male, ajdaha, because you didnt noticed the first time could not be the \"paradise\" for everyone... Moreover, dont forget it would hurt you more when you are young... And finally when someone is rapped it\'s not a nice thing done with condoms and vaseline... the rapist dont care about the victims wellness... And what I find horrible in that act is really the violence around it.
I still try to understand your point of view and even if, like you, I think sometimes people around me have a wrong way to judge sex, Im still very astonished when I read your last post... and I think there must be a misunderstanding: when someone accuse a guy of having touched a child, I understand the guy is a rapist. Maybe do you understand anything else...
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fken you come up with some crazy connections... 9-11 and jackson?
and what does sex positions have to do with it?
i\'m sure that if indeed the kid was raped (i am becoming more and more doubtful that he was...he and his mom were con-artists. oh well, i\'m not the judge!) ... the position they were in was the last thing on his mind... and why does it matter if different states have different laws on some things? they all have the same laws on rape, which is what we are actually talking about!
oh well, i\'m not really sure what the point of your post was (and no, it\'s not because of your language, it\'s just because none of your rambling ideas make any logical sense (spelling?)) oh, and btw fken, please don\'t try to explain your reasoning to me like i know you will (you always do) by just reposting everything you have already said- that is pointless and stupid. just leave it alone i guess...
@ajdaha-
i disagree, sex is alot different and alot more serious than other actions... like opening a jar of peanut butter...
even if you don\'t even talk about moral issues, there are most definitely possibilities for physical damage...
do the letters s-t-d ring a bell? (woo! go high school health class!)
also, not that i\'ve actualy experienced it myself, but i would guess being raped would be very violent (if the kid resisted him of course, which i hope he did! if he didn\'t... well then we get into a whole different matter of wether it was actually rape or not... you know... the whole kids can\'t make real choices thing, so let\'s not go there) and therefore physically harmful... unless he was drugged... which is also physically dangerous... how can you say rape is not physically harmful? that is such a stupid assumption...
but anway, even without all those issues above i disagree with you soley (spelling? sorry i can\'t spell) based on my moral beleifs.
edit: spelling again...
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I actually think anything against kids is wrong cause they haven\'t had the time to make their own judgements and everything affects them phsycologically.
But the result of the rape of this kid, physically, was nowhere near, losing a limb or watever. He\'s still alive and well (if he actually did get raped, sorry).
I would class Michael Jackson\'s actions as just assault if only it wasn\'t a kid he was raping. Because the fact that he probuably wasn\'t aware of the experience, and it was strange for him might have cause him phsycological ddrama. But if we would change our opinions of sex as a comunity and openly discuss it with children and everyone else, it would not have been more of a shockthan getting muged and being exposed to some disease at the same time.
It\'s like we\'re lying to ourselves when we don\'t speaka bout sex more widely. I hate parents that really think that sex is against nature and try to conceal it from their children for as long as possible.
We shouldn\'t lie to each other, just educate each other.
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@Taurenthefirst: you were close to understand what I\'ve written... but you forget to concentrate yourself ;-) . No, seriously I wont argue with you. If you wanna speak with me and argue with me please read my post before replying
Regards
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@ajdaha: I think it depends on the family not really on the society. I dont think sex is a real big tabou in France even if the majority of the jokes are about sex (if this kind of joke works it means speaking about sex isn\'t as easy as I believe... I recognize). But personally Ive no problem to speak about sex and our societies are pretty close...
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the problem of any trial about sex-abuse is that there are almost never any evidence, it\'ll always be based on the declaration of the victim, and we will probably never be able to tell if someone tells the truth, so these trials are a bit stupid, if you cant prove, you cant put someone in jail...
Still it\'s important to show that rapes are not things you can deal with like other crimes, the trials usually show that it\'s not normal to be attracted by a child, and this is a good thing. ajdaha, I dont know how you were educated, but in my mind, sex isnt something you do with your neighboors or your teacher just because they want to, it\'s a mutual agreement to give pleasure to the other one, and this has to be concious, or you can lose the specificity of sex. And I\'m nearly sure it\'ll be a problem in future relations, a child is an emotional sponge, he cant handle such a relation because it isnt \"normal\' it is not in the natural code of conduct.
I\'m really amazed that you can think in that way, it\'s dangerous, and I hope you\'re aware that it\'s absolutely not normal, and mentally very dangerous for anyone to be raped.
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Um yah you are all michael jackson pro\'s you guys who say he is in debt act like you have the bills for everything of his...maybe stop listening to what you hear on T.V and what your friends tell you and look at the facts \"Pop King\", makes money from his songs everytime one is played on T.V, Radio, Some internet music sites. He will never go poor just like Elvis\'s family will never go poor because the money keeps pooring in even when your dead, thats the life of a \"King of Music\" no matter the genre.
This trial and this whole matter should have been done in private like everybody elses. No reason it should be aired like this it only gives the celebrity stalking freaks more to talk about.
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Originally posted by leji
And I\'m nearly sure it\'ll be a problem in future relations, a child is an emotional sponge, he cant handle such a relation because it isnt \"normal\' it is not in the natural code of conduct.
I\'m really amazed that you can think in that way, it\'s dangerous, and I hope you\'re aware that it\'s absolutely not normal, and mentally very dangerous for anyone to be raped.
I think like you until a kind of limit: you speak about natural about normal...
Even if Im against rape, I recognize raping is natural because it\'s the way some species choose to save their specie... For us (poor little human beings, born in industrial society and educated by this society) this act is awful but ONLY FOR US.
My conclusion is simple: rape is \"normal\" because rape is natural but human beeing concept isnt \"normal\" because it isnt natural... off course there is a lot of examples which explain how human beeing isnt really outside the nature... and off course rape is one of these examples. I think people need to know the part of the nature hidden in itself to understand rapists and then to judge them. And the only way to do that is to lost pride and to stay humble.
I can tell you that even if Im a male, making love without loving... it\'s not as strong as if you love. You dont feel the same feeling and you can\'t really enjoy. So a rapist must be lost to rape someone... I dont think the rapist need the judgement of the society or anything like that (especially TV camera and so one). But I think once there is a rape, there isnt only one victim... Naturally the raped person is the victim of the act but the rapist was already a kind of victim. I simply cant think someone born criminal (and really despise the one who said the contrary). Something must happened and trouble the normal life of someone. These ones are becoming criminals because they are victims.
I dont care if Michael Jackson is or not a criminal... It\'s his life and I think it\'s a guy who already suffered a lot. Im not a judge, Im not concerned. And moreover, I have compassion for him. I learnt in my life how to see interesting elements in the news. What\'s interesting is always what\'s not on the focus. If Michael Jackson was accused it means first that he was a perfect target: he must have no love and certainly feels alone. Im sure he is sad and I hope he will feel better.
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rape is \"normal\" because rape is natural
???
Can you give me the name of an animal that rape childs ? Think about dogs, they wont do anything until they have reached a certain age when females start producing pheromons or whatever. I guess it\'s the same for most species.
@DepthBlade: Dont be so sure, some artists dont get money everytime a song is aired, it all depends on the contract. Jonhny Halliday (famous french singer) for instance, isnt owner of most of his song, and he just a trial where he wanted to get some more money from them. I dont know about M. Jackson case, but he could be as poor as me :)
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I said \"rape\" not \"child rape\"...
NB: I already saw a dog which raped another dog but it\'s not really the best example.
I dont have the time to search for examples but I remember the best example was a submarine animal (a kind of crabe).
PS: do you think a 13-aged girl doesnt produce pheromones?
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Bahh...I\'ll tell you this...leave the poor guy alone...
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Originally posted by leji
rape is \"normal\" because rape is natural
???
Can you give me the name of an animal that rape childs ? Think about dogs, they wont do anything until they have reached a certain age when females start producing pheromons or whatever. I guess it\'s the same for most species.
@DepthBlade: Dont be so sure, some artists dont get money everytime a song is aired, it all depends on the contract. Jonhny Halliday (famous french singer) for instance, isnt owner of most of his song, and he just a trial where he wanted to get some more money from them. I dont know about M. Jackson case, but he could be as poor as me :)
As far as we know, the guy hasn\'t sold off his songs yet like the beatles some others. Even with that said there is MJ Merchandise, the movie thriller is still selling to this day...basicly the chance he is broke is very low. The chance he is broke is like the chance of me being correct when saying everyone here is loaded.
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PS: do you think a 13-aged girl doesnt produce pheromones?
I really dont think so
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Originally posted by fken
Even if Im against rape, I recognize raping is natural because it\'s the way some species choose to save their specie... For us (poor little human beings, born in industrial society and educated by this society) this act is awful but ONLY FOR US.
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I think people need to know the part of the nature hidden in itself to understand rapists and then to judge them.
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I simply cant think someone born criminal
Raping as a reproductive strategy is a most disturbing and very controversial theory. While I understand your point, allow me to differ.
Concerning animal species other than humans, violent sexually-motivated assaults and penetration sometimes occur, this is true. The \"defining attribute of rape in humans is the lack of informed consent, which is difficult to determine in other animals\" (Wikipedia). Now we have two options, either it looks to us like rape but it is not (some form of anthropomorphism) or it really is rape. In this second case, I believe that such behaviour is exhibited by a minority of the given species so it is not \"normal\". Also, the fact that it is not widespread can be used to show that it is not a (suitable) reproductive strategy (if ever this is what it is).
Now concerning humans, let us assume that rape is biologically motivated or \"natural\" as you say. It is therefore part of our nature (or that of people with rapist genes, if you adhere to that idea) which makes every man a born criminal (the very idea you abhor).
Rape \"is awful but only for us\", as you say. According to Wikipedia, rape \"is considered by most societies to be among the most severe crimes.\" My opinion is that the greater the equality between genders (or the less women/children are regarded as objects/inferiors) in a society, the more likely it is that rape will be severely punished in that society.
Like you, I believe that no one is born a criminal. Human beings are capable of thought and of choice. This is precisely why rape (whether biologically motivated or not) cannot be excused.
Originally posted by DepthBlade
As far as we know, the guy hasn\'t sold off his songs yet like the beatles some others.
Actually, Jackson bought a majority of the Beatles\' titles during the 1980s (now jointly shared with Sony). However there is much speculation about whether he sold/will sell them because of financial problems. Afterall, Neverland is a money pit and he has settled a number of lawsuits for quite a large sum of money.