PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: winterk on June 15, 2005, 05:21:25 pm
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Can you kill the NPCs that are standing around everywhere? Do you attack them or challenge them or what?
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double-clik on them. that will work if you\'re on default config.
If not, select them and click an instance for the attack (normal, defensive...) by clicking those round icons with axe and shield down the spell bar.
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So I can attack and kill harnquist?
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...
7 words filled with reflexive thoughts.
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It would be interesting if one could deprive other players of a merchant by killing the merchant. Or maybe we would get a new merchant who would charge lower prices...
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In the early days of CB I rember a NPC that thought that it was it\'s duty to randomly attack players, I was trieing to lure it to the plaza. Heh.
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In the future we hope there will be NPCs (such as questgivers, or just random inhabitants) that can be killed. NPCs with important functions will have their jobs replaced by newly \'born\' NPCs with randomly generated names, which allows us to have both freedom of players and realism of the world.
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You don\'t just walk into 7eleven and shoot the guy, take his stuff and leave! Why do it in gameplay? But if you could, (just out of curiousity) what would you get if you could kill him. If you get all of his stuff, you would get 1000\'s of trias and all the stuff players sell him. Then you would get all the stuff he sells. Or maybe only the stuff he sells.
But it just doesn\'t make sense to kill people like him.
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Exactly, which is why people probably/hopefully won\'t be doing it too often. ;)
No, I think it would probably be set up in a way that stops players getting rich off killing NPCs. Shop goods would be stored in an unbreakable chest, for example, rather than being kept on the body.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Exactly, which is why people probably/hopefully won\'t be doing it too often. ;)
No, I think it would probably be set up in a way that stops players getting rich off killing NPCs. Shop goods would be stored in an unbreakable chest, for example, rather than being kept on the body.
That is completely unrealistic and ruins the already weak setting even more.
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Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
That is completely unrealistic and ruins the already weak setting even more.
How is that unrealistic, is it realistic for a merchant to store all his merchandise(including swords pick axes etc) on his person? That is unless he is one of the shady types that is trying to sell people something illegal or fake.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Exactly, which is why people probably/hopefully won\'t be doing it too often. ;)
No, I think it would probably be set up in a way that stops players getting rich off killing NPCs. Shop goods would be stored in an unbreakable chest, for example, rather than being kept on the body.
It is some option, an option which isn\'t that hard to implement. But should this game be ruled by this what is more simple to implement?
The harder way would be to develop a system where murderer and thief would be punished. He would think three times before doind that, because it isnt an easy life to be chased by guards and have big problems to enter a bigger city without being caught.
Sometimes i\'m really not sure if I won\'t wake up one day to find out that everythink is messed up and even birds fly backwards because of somethink else.
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That is completely unrealistic and ruins the already weak setting even more.
I dare you to reconsider your thoughts, because how realistic is it that you can kill a merchant, who is in an open shop, in the middle of a marketplace, sorrounded by loads of people, without getting noticed and still get away with all those 1000\'s of trias and axes and swords and halberds and armor pieces and everything else that he is carrying in his non-existant backpack. When that becomes realistic, we can start talking about implementing killing and looting of friendly NPCs.
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Originally posted by Kiva
I dare you to reconsider your thoughts, because how realistic is it that you can kill a merchant, who is in an open shop, in the middle of a marketplace, sorrounded by loads of people, without getting noticed and still get away with all those 1000\'s of trias and axes and swords and halberds and armor pieces and everything else that he is carrying in his non-existant backpack. When that becomes realistic, we can start talking about implementing killing and looting of friendly NPCs.
You take good sword and chop off the mearchants head. So you should be able to kill a merchant. But all poeple around have to react in proper way to have a realistic enviroment.
As i\'m writing this post, does that mean that my previous one wasn\'t understable at all?
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Well, if the merchant gets killed, then the killer should get (I think this may be in SWG) a flag or condition of some sort where he may be attacked for the next 5-10 minutes by anyone in the vicinity. That way a skilled player, like an assassin of some type, could use a skill of some sort to escape, while people who are bullies and don\'t have that kind of skill get mobbed by angry shoppers and are killed. And I think GM\'s should be notified when these guys are killed, that way GM\'s can ban/warn/exact punishment upon/etc. people who constantly do such things. And maybe there could be a record somewhere about who killed what NPC. That way people could be hired to kill certain NPC\'s. Quest NPC\'s shouldn\'t be killable (is that a word?) in my opinion though.
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Why kill them anyway? Have you not read my post. Why let people kill them and then ban or do something else to them. Just don\'t let people kill them and we won\'t have a problem!
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People should be able to kill them. Harnquist should also hire 4 huge Kran guards to stand around his shop. :D
I also like the idea of letting the player be PvPed by everyone nearby. This should last for several in-game months (but only in cities where the guards are aware of the player\'s action), #1, and #2, whenever the player dies (within said cities for said duration), they should lose everything they have.
To those that say, \"That\'s too extreme\" I say, \"You shouldn\'t have murdered a friendly NPC and stolen all of his stuff.\" This makes crime pretty rare, I\'d say, as there is a low success rate and a high penalty. Hey, that\'s just like real life...
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I wouldn\'t make sense to let people kill harnquist and then PvP them and make them lose everything. Why let them kill harquist in the first place then! Just don\'t allow it and people won\'t. Or are you suggesting we allow people to do illegal things and punish them for it? Just don\'t let them kill harnquist and everything will be fine!
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Because in real life, I can go up to my next door neighbor with a shotgun and blow his head off. A good RPG should be as immersive as possible, and it\'s more realistic to let people kill NPCs. It\'s also very realistic to exact a harsh punishment for this sort of action. Players that do this OOC should probably receive a warning and temporary ban (of a few days) as well.
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Well letting players kill mercheants is only good if these things are implemented:
Player\'s Alignment: Good -> Neutral -> Evil.
Like our player can choose at char creation to which side he is. Say he chooses good so he is 100% aligned to Goodnes at start. Then he kills a merchean and he get some (-7%) decrease in Goodness, and some (+7%) increase in evilness. etc. So if a player is really Evil the guards aligned towards Goodness will evade him on first sigh.
On the other hand he\'ll be welcomed from Evil ones.
Pick Lock skill: Then when the mercheant has died, the player can attempt to pick lock his chest to get his wares, that\'ll require high skills even higher for good mercheants.
This will surely be a job of thieves or rouges, no paladin will risk his reputation.
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How can you know who is good and who is evil?
What is the meaning of these words btw.? You should know it is very relative thing and in eyes of different people someone will be bad and in someone else good. In each city lives this and this type of people and most of them are mixed personalities. Where somethink is a good act for one, someone else maybe see it very different.
Guards work is not to keep who is good and who is evil, but do this what people in a given city want. If they dont want to be killed, the guards will keep this from happening. And so on.....
Also i think bans and other GM punishments are highly unrealistic and thus shouldn\'t be allowed when someone is e.g. killing merchants. It is work of guards and concerned players who want to have merchants ^^.
If someone will be punished by a ban from some city, it doesn\'t mean he can\'t enter it at all. He only isn\'t supposed to do this under the penalty of death.
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Orignally posted by: Nikodemus
How can you know who is good and who is evil?
What is the meaning of these words btw.?
Well in case of NPCs, a NPC asking you to assisinate that sharven in the Laanx temple will surely be identified as evil and you\'ll know by completing this quest you\'ll get a little bit aligned towards evil.
OTOH, a guard at hydlaa north gate asking you to hunt some wolves that attack the travelers at night outside the city will surely be identified as somewhat good by you.
For more presise info we can add that the player\'s/monster\'s reputation is shown in it\'s description window.
And yeah banning from GMs would surely break the setting.
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I only suggested banning if the original action was out of character. I obviously agree that banning for IC killing of NPCs is wrong. However, I am guessing that most instances will be OOC which is why I mentioned it. Sadly, I have a feeling that making NPCs killable is more likely to be abused than used for RP, though I still think it should be done.
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Originally posted by Cha0s
I only suggested banning if the original action was out of character. I obviously agree that banning for IC killing of NPCs is wrong. However, I am guessing that most instances will be OOC which is why I mentioned it. Sadly, I have a feeling that making NPCs killable is more likely to be abused than used for RP, though I still think it should be done.
And who would you want to monitor if every NPC killing is IC or OOC? The GMs? Don\'t you think they have enough reasons to ban people as it is? :)
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A solution to this problem is simple.
If a player kills a merchant, (and that should be a feat that is by no means an easy task) just announce a reward for the player\'s head, and the other players have something new to hunt, requiring detective work with NPCs, and having a time limit, or the criminal gets away with it.
Surely in the comprehensive modeling that is planned, there are criminals?
Isn\'t that what stealth skills are for? (which for this to work properly, would have to keep system info for the fight with the NPC, private to the killer, or killers.)
A quest to locate a new merchant to replace the dead one, would also be a new diversion, even if it were not a welcome one.
The inconvenience of not having the merchant for some time, would certainly crystallize a community opinion of those who kill friendly NPCs. This would be the only penalty that would be noticed by some of our more juvenile players.
Trainer type and level for the dead NPC might change for his successor also, requiring a new trainer be found elsewhere as well, and Evil players would finally have something Evil to do, besides talk trash.
Looting the dead NPC must be possible, if you can kill them. There is a weight limit after all. And it makes no sense for everything brought to the NPC by players to still be there, either.
I can think of no action that is without potential to improve the game. It is only a matter of conceiving how to manage those actions.
In an openly developed game, anything you can think of to do, should be possible. Focus on how to handle it, not on forbidding it.
Only a player who is actually disruptive to game play should be banned.
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I agree that shop owners and quest npc should be unkillable to all.
But the other villagers that have no perpose what so ever should be killable and they should have stats like the rats and drop some money when you kill them that way we get something out of it besides exp.
That way we have something else to train on besides rats that there are to few of.
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Bad Bad bad idea.
Killable merchants serve no purpose at all. They should not attack or be attacked. To those who say it is more realistic, I say, PS is not the \"matrix\" you have to have some short cuts. NPC merchants are one of those shortcuts. Mugging a merchant does not let you loot 100,000 rat corpses and million tria. Merchants are a sink for all of the junk to go into. They are garbage disposals. When monsters spawn, items are created, when you sell them to merchants they are destroyed. If for some reason you did kill a merchant. You would find nothing but that black hole that they put items in and get items out of.
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Ban a player for killing an NPC? Who is thinking of these things?
Personally I don\'t care if you can or not. I think it\'s probably best to just keep it so you can\'t till perhaps the rest of the game is finished.
BUT if you do implement something like that you can\'t ban people from the game. You didn\'t break any gamerules seeing the game allows it so it should have ingame disadavantages. Like if you are seen you are open for everyone to kill you. To be on the guards bountylist and perhaps the other merchants wont trade with you.
Just imagine how hard the game will be if trainers and merchants stop giving you their services.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Bad Bad bad idea.
Killable merchants serve no purpose at all. They should not attack or be attacked. To those who say it is more realistic, I say, PS is not the \"matrix\" you have to have some short cuts. NPC merchants are one of those shortcuts. Mugging a merchant does not let you loot 100,000 rat corpses and million tria. Merchants are a sink for all of the junk to go into. They are garbage disposals. When monsters spawn, items are created, when you sell them to merchants they are destroyed. If for some reason you did kill a merchant. You would find nothing but that black hole that they put items in and get items out of.
With this kind of thinking same as Bad Bad bad idea is possibility to run, because it allows us to kill faster. This creates many more nonsenses.
Purposes of killing NPC:
- getting needed trias
- make people think what to do to prevent killing of merchants (in game, not at forums asking devs for invisible bariers) to whom they sell their goods
- having fun
- creating logically build world where birds don\'t fly backwards because somebody thought it would be good idea *sarcasm*
Matrix isn\'t realistic, so i really don\'t know why do you say about it as argument agains people who want PS to be realistic game.
NPC merchants aren\'t shortcuts if the system of killing them is done in the rigt way. Shortcut is forbidding to kill them as it isn\'t hard to set. What do you fear? Greater challange of setting everythink right and keeping it balanced?
About mugging merchant. it all depends what the merchang had in his shop an how much time the thief had before the guards arrived. This also make us to think if the merchant should really buy everything what people sell to him? Try to look at this from the source, study the world and try to see how it works.
Say yes to changes and don\'t deny them as you fear this what you dont know. Pick up the challenge and try to do this what other failed by learning on their mistakes.
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ban a player for killing NPC\'s for no good reason other than to annoy others, make life harder for others, or some malicious non-rp reason. not because they killed an NPC, if they were banned for killing an NPC once, then there would be a lot fewer newbies playing. I didn\'t say ban them for killing one, i said for constantly killing them... if some of you were referring to my post. and the enemy flag would allow people to mob him and kill him, unless he was trained in getting away, and then people who abuse there skills get punished, maybe not through banning but maybe through having them in jail or something like that. afterwards, they could be released. that would serve as a temporary banning. if they kill too many villager npc\'s (those that do nothing) then they could be jailed for longer periods, and if they persist, get banned from the city. unless they sneak back in with assasin or magic skills or a disguise, or they do some thing good for the town or they bribe the guards, knock the guards out, etc. or the town leader is corrupt
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hhmmm the jail thing I think would be cool. If you are killed when you have the flag by the guards or an other player you are teleported to jail instead of the DR. Spawn is going to be disabled I hear so that shouldn\'t be a problem :)
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yea, instead of killing the guy, everyone goes and beats him into submission and then the guards come along and drag him off to jail. and jail would be a good place to show newbies examples of what not to do and people who got into trouble for doing them.
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Grrr, I hate these ideas...NO going to jail, NO being hunted down for your head and defiantly NO being banned for killing an NPC!
I would really like to see the \'go to jail\' thing out of everyone’s heads. Its rubbish.
To me it makes the game stupid if you were to \'get caught\' by the SS or the Guards and what have you.
I think it should be more like....the more you kill a merchant or an independent kind of neutral NPC the less respect you get.
EG. They won’t sell you their merchandise or even attack you if you come to close.
That makes much more sense then \'going to jail for 10 REAL days\'...\"oh but its REALISTIC\" you may say, well guess what, not everything as to be REALISTIC.
Sorry, I just get really angry when this idea comes up, I’v hated this from the beginning and I’m going to hate it until it dies out. :D
(But if the majority votes on it on ruined ;( )
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hmm I am also for the fact of merchants not seling you stuff if you do it, but that would still mean that maxed out people will do it out of boredom so a dunguen where you get stuck in seems a good idea and it would also make it fun to hunt down thieves. Then you really can have a lawenforcement agency ;)
How to make it so that they can get out again without just having to keep PS running a while while they go watch TV is the next question.
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I\'m sure you will never get maxed out (unless you play 24/7...some how) or bored. Even if you might have achieved what you wanted to achieve in the game and I’m sure people can\'t kill NPC\'s while they watch T.V, Hopefully there won’t be any auto kill feature.
Maybe they can call other NPC\'s to help him out and you will get mobbed. NPC\'s are all friends :D
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I was talking about watching TV when they are in jail, not while killing the NPC. DUH
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yeh DUH...well i can tell you know not many people would just let the bandwith go to waist and wait hours just for killing an NPC :rolleyes:
Bottem line from me:
Its not going to make alot of \'crinimals\' happy if they have to wait in jail all day.