PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Cha0s on June 15, 2005, 07:11:08 pm
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Please note that these suggestions apply to when Planeshift is officially released (not alpha, beta, etc.) as they are impractical at this time.
The simple method for enforcing RP in Planeshift is to make RP the only method of advancing in the game with any sort of rapidity.
\"How is this possible?\" you ask. Well, it\'s simple really. Killing things doesn\'t give you much in the way of progression points or loot. The only way to get PPs and loot is to do built-in quests and GM-run quests.
\"GM-run quests? We can\'t do that. There aren\'t enough people for that, and the GMs are just supposed to be like police anyway.\" Well, you know what? That needs to change. There need to be more GMs and they need to be given the tools and the time to run quests and events for players. This encourages RP and rewards players for RPing by allowing them to advance their characters. Remember the origin of the \"Game Master\" (or \"Dungeon Master\")... This is what my Dungeon Master friend stated it as: \"A Dungeon Master creates and runs a world for his players.\"
Game Masters should be involved in helping the players discover the world and helping them roleplay.
I have played games that use this system and it really works. There is very little OOC/Power-leveling and what little there is is easily dealt with by the DMs. Now, granted, I was involved with this on a smaller scale (20-player server), but the world was much larger than in PS and there were fewer DMs. I believe that such a system could be extended to PS and that it would be beneficial for all roleplayers if it were. Obviously there would be slight changes to incorporate the differences between these two different types of games, but the general concept should stay the same.
Anyway, sorry for the loooong post. Any comments anyone?
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Originally posted by Cha0s
The simple method for enforcing RP in Planeshift is to make RP the only method of advancing in the game with any sort of rapidity.
I think this is a great idea. I admit to spending probably too much time killing things and leveling up, even though this is not exactly in my character\'s nature. I do it because it\'s fun, and because I can\'t always find people with whom to RP. But a system like you suggested would solve this, and my character wouldn\'t have to do something with which he\'s not really comfortable just so that I can have a few hours of entertainment.
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Thanks. Also, if a system like this were implemented, there would be more RPers and therefore less boredom/urge to go kill things (which would be worthless anyway :P ). So the system not only encourages RP, but also makes it easier. :)
One other thing that I forgot to mention before is that this system will also probably make things funner for GMs as well since they would have to set up and run events where they get to RP as well (by possessing NPCs usually). This sort of interaction is beneficial to everyone in the community really, except the non-RPers, who don\'t belong anyway.
EDIT: too many smilies
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Great idea! I really like the idea of a GM quest feature, it would make it more fun for the normal players, and it would probably be a _lot_ more fun for the GM. (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/images/icons/thumb_up.gif)
I would probably suggest adding in a screen when creating a charector, that explains how to role play. I know that there are alot of such guides on the forums, but, there is probably a sizeable chunk of players who haven\'t been on the forums enough to find those posts. I know i just found them, erm, today. :\\
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Good idea. An explanation of the general rules of RP, what\'s expected on the server, etc. should be incorporated. It would probably be better in some sort of tutorial, though, as most people are likely to skip large bodies of text that stand between them and the game. :(
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Bad idea. I think there should be a ballance between the two. Quests should be a major source of advancement, but fighting monsters must also provide experience. The goal should be to find the right ballance between the two.
Also, you should be able to gain experience without spending money. With training, you just advance at a quicker rate.
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But with that setup, power-levelers could just go out and kill things for experience and completely ignore quests and GM events since they\'d be advancing at the same rate as the RPers anyway. The goal is to make players unable to advance in the game without RPing. The reason for this is that Planeshift is about roleplay, not power-leveling.
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Ok idea, GM quests and stuff like that is a good idea. But you should always be able to get experience from fighting things, it would just be much slower then quests and stuff. Like it could work like this: if someone just went down to the sewers and killed a rat then he would get 5 experience, but if someone was doing a quest to get rid of the rats in the sewers then he would get 25 experience. (obviously those aren\'t actually numbers that should be used, they were just an example) So doing quests would get you experience MUCH faster.
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Hm...nice idea...I am quite sick of GMs doing nothing but standing one one place banning random people :D Perhaps they will be actually useful now? :P
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@ wormking: Exactly. Though it works better when taken to extremes as it is on the NWN server I play on. For example, on that server, the first quest is worth 75 or 100 XP (I forget which). Killing the bats in the cave where the quest is gives you about a total of 10 XP (1 XP each). Huge discrepancy. :)
The key thing is to make it impossible for people to gain levels faster by killing things than by RPing, even if they put in more time. That way power-levelers just get sick of the game and leave while the RPers have a lot of fun and stay. :)
@ John_Thazer: Yup. The GMs probably are bored too, you know. :P
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Originally posted by Cha0s
But with that setup, power-levelers could just go out and kill things for experience and completely ignore quests and GM events since they\'d be advancing at the same rate as the RPers anyway. The goal is to make players unable to advance in the game without RPing. The reason for this is that Planeshift is about roleplay, not power-leveling.
I said ballance. I did not say they had to be equal.
Let people advance through monster killing. Just make it so that quests are more desireable.
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Here\'s the biggest single reason your idea is wrong:
It lacks realism.
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So you\'re telling me that killing the same creatures over and over again teaches you more than doing a plethora of different quests that incorporate said creature-killing in addition to other things, such as puzzle-solving, teamwork, and resource-management?
If Planeshift gets the advanced GM-event system I\'m talking about here, then these things will be parts of quests all over Yliakum. There\'ll be a default set, sure. But there\'ll also be quests created by GMs to challenge and inspire players. You\'re trying to tell me that killing monolithic hordes of creatures teaches you more?
I just don\'t buy it. You learn the most by having a variety of different experiences, not repeating the same thing over and over.
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I don\'t think it\'s a good idea. A GM is not a DM. I think it\'s better if they stay at the sideline to watch if everyone behaves okay and to monitor the help-channel. If players have to decide if people role play good enough to earn a quest reward, it\'s just a matter of time till things go wrong. By the way, it would be very boring to role play the standard quest situation over and over, that\'s better left to npcs.
I think player made quest are good as long as they are the result of a need. Not as a mean to \'enforce roleplay\'. If a warrior guild asks a couple of smiths to forge them some weapons, it\'s way better then a GM giving out \'official quests\'.
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*sigh* I need to explain this better... GMs are not currently DMs. But they could be made into DMs. I\'m sure they\'re probably bored out of their wits as it is now, and this would provide a way for them to have a little fun as well.
Also, the GMs would not \"hand out\" \"official\" quests. The GMs would possess/create an NPC and cause the quest to just happen in a normal way. There\'d be no \"You\'ve got a new quest!\" message. Players would just flow naturally right into the quest.
Example: Harnquist runs up to a bunch of players standing around in the Plaza: \"Some rascal has stolen my forging hammer! I can\'t forge anything without it and I can\'t run fast enough to catch him. Can you go get it back for me? He ran towards the sewers...\" etc.
The GMs would then award XP if the players successfully completed the quest or if they declined for RP reasons they might also get a (much smaller) reward for good RP. If they took the quest, they\'d get XP based on how well they did. Good RP during the quest would warrant a greater reward. GMs could also hand out items under RP circumstances, i.e. in the above example, Harnquist might give each PC a special sword for helping out.
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Originally posted by hitancrias
If players have to decide if people role play good enough to earn a quest reward, it\'s just a matter of time till things go wrong.
I really don\'t see how it would make much of a difference. I\'d suspect that only higher up DM\'s would get this ability, and those people already have the ability to kill/freeze/rename/kick/do-more-unhappy-things to charactors, but anarchy hasn\'t ensued yet. :)
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But will the GM\'s be overwhelmed by the large numbers of newbies mobbing them like crazy to get a quest? And how hard will it be to get these quests set up?
Also, killing hordes of creatures only makes you good at it, it doesn\'t teach you anything new. New experiences teach you things, but they don\'t make you good at it (not right away at least).
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Newbies that ask for quests won\'t get them. The idea is to create an immersive world where things happen and the players respond. Newbies asking GMs for quests are OOC and will probably get a nice warning before being sent on their way. If players have specific requests, such as \"Can you help me set up this character\'s background with an event?\" then GMs might be more willing. It\'d be up to the individual GMs, though.
Also, I\'d think killing the same creatures over and over again would stop teaching you things after a while.
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Originally posted by keifer
Originally posted by hitancrias
If players have to decide if people role play good enough to earn a quest reward, it\'s just a matter of time till things go wrong.
I really don\'t see how it would make much of a difference. I\'d suspect that only higher up DM\'s would get this ability, and those people already have the ability to kill/freeze/rename/kick/do-more-unhappy-things to charactors, but anarchy hasn\'t ensued yet. :)
Hmm... well GMs who where trying to carry out the rename policy got quite some negative response... to put it mildly. Complete guilds, established ones and new ones, have left over it and every other week someone opens a thread to debate GM decisions. Judging roleplay is even far more subjective...
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You\'d get bonuses for roleplay, not detractions. I doubt players would complain, \"How come I only got 100 tria and 5 PPs?\" If players do complain about that, they\'re just whiners and they need to learn how to accept rewards graciously. Most of the people who are currently complaining are also just whining.
About the guilds: These are Planeshift\'s rules and guidelines. If you violate them, there are penalties. Having a guild name changed is not that bad. I think that one of the biggest issues with all these complaints thus far is that many of the complaining people don\'t like RP-oriented rules or an RP-oriented setting. These people need to leave. PS is not for them.
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Originally posted by Cha0s
You\'d get bonuses for roleplay, not detractions. I doubt players would complain, \"How come I only got 100 tria and 5 PPs?\" If players do complain about that, they\'re just whiners and they need to learn how to accept rewards graciously. Most of the people who are currently complaining are also just whining.
About the guilds: These are Planeshift\'s rules and guidelines. If you violate them, there are penalties. Having a guild name changed is not that bad. I think that one of the biggest issues with all these complaints thus far is that many of the complaining people don\'t like RP-oriented rules or an RP-oriented setting. These people need to leave. PS is not for them.
100 tria is nothing. It\'s not even enough to but a sword. 500 tria is ~something~. With 500 tria, you ~might~ be able to advance a level or two in a chosen field.
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It was an example. Don\'t nitpick please. It doesn\'t really help at all. :\\
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Bonuses from RP - good idea, well now I would like to hear some concretes.
I am planning to organize quests, so if someone got some nice idea or
storyline he or she may PM me, sure, after your quest gets approval of game
admins you can\'t participiate in it, also mind if that storyline is possible-to-come-true
considering current game features. Anyway those would be only \"extra\" events
not a standard way for players to advance in game.
Regards.
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Originally posted by Cha0s
It was an example. Don\'t nitpick please. It doesn\'t really help at all. :\\
Chill.
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I used to give out quests to people... untill I ran out of money... and items... so I decided it was too expensive for me... :P
Anyway, about RP, like Hitancrias said people have to decide if they will RP or not, although we can convince them by RPing with them even if they aren\'t RPing... maybe they\'ll go with it.
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Well two days ago I walked out into the woods and bumped into an Ulber blocking the crossroads. So I tried to lure it away but it seemed that it didn\'t want to leave the area. Then I tried to kill it but of course I wasn\'t much of a challenge on my own even though I could steer clear from the slow monster it would take ages before my magics had him on his knees.
I ran back to the plaza and started calling upon all strong warriors and capable wizards to join me and defeat the Ulbernaut together to make our roads safe again. I think I stood there about 10 to 15 minutes. The GM Stfrn liked my initiative and even put a prize on the Ulber\'s head ... but my quest had little result. Aside from one fine dwarf named Stenar, who joined me immediately, the only responces I got were from people getting annoyed by my shouts. It seems nobody was interested in roleplaying.
I \'m pretty certain if I had shouted \"Come kill monster with me and earn lots of trias!\" that I probably had more candidates, 99% new people. But roleplaying was something nobody was really interested in apparently.
This isn\'t the first time I \'ve tried something like this either. Quests just aren\'t very popular unless they \'re profitable and easy. But why run around Hydlaa trying to solve a quest for a broadsword if you can just walk upto 5 people and beg for one.
Another downside in handing out quests is you need to have a lot of time and that time is spent waiting for the people to come back to you. Which is rather boring in my experience.
So hopefully the GM\'s will do a better job than me with these quests.
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I heard you, Zan, and for me time zone had something to do with it. Normally, I would have been thrilled to help out in a bit of adventuring, especially as it furthers RP in PS, but it was 2 in the morning here and I was really too sleepy to do anything but idley chat (IC, of course) with some friends. Maybe next time?
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I \'ll keep you to that ;)
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Originally posted by Zan
Another downside in handing out quests is you need to have a lot of time and that time is spent waiting for the people to come back to you. Which is rather boring in my experience.
Agreed !
I don\'t know, i think there may be GMs that will enjoy this activity (quest giving, waiting, rewarding, repeat..) but personally I would be bored after a month.
Thats is the reason for having NPCs with simple quest for all. (how soon(tm) will the quests be back in game ?!? - rethoric question heh)
I got some idea how to improve quest receiving :
NPC could have some number of random special quests (more profitable than usual quest) - lets say for after random quest requests (50-100) (with limited quest requests for one player for time period - to avoid exploitation) he could roll a special quest for player - spawned a tough monster somewhere for kill or other story.
Newbie could ignore this , but a good RP player could ask friends/guild/other people for help and complete the quest. The prize could be received at quest place (monster drop for example) or given by NPC after receiving the completing quest proof..
This way GMs would be free to organise more massive events, with many prizes for players.
(many prizes because for 50 events (lets say one event for one week) with 50 players participating average chance to get the single prize would be one for a year (!?) *edit* - alrigh alright im not talking about overbalancing in game - it can be one main prize per event - but it should be something unicate.
I think this would give that event a proper fame and there will be the motivation for others players to start roleplaying and participating more.
Hmm and how about adding a Quest channel(with the range for all zones, like /tell, for players searching the cooperands for quest) or at least some information about events beginning at All channel? I hate missing the events (I was probably happy slapping Rogue in Akkaio while you were looking for volunteers Zan - usually im doing something in game instead of running around at plazaa)
About the getting experience from killing stuff. It learns still the same thing around - how to kill faster/massively(more loot)/without being hurt much. The trias I got from loot ? Well I spend them training skills at trainer, not at monster, aren\'t I ?
(My point is : If developing your character\'s skills isn\'t roleplaying then what is ?)
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What about implementing Quest Master mode, similar to Advisor mode ? Scenario could look like the following ;) :
qm1: /questmastermode on I have five interesting jobs for new inhabitants and experienced explores.
(players see announcement in a way similar to auction)
[I have five interesting jobs for new inhabitants and experienced explores.]
newbie1: /QUESTREQUEST N00B W0NTS M0N3Y!!!!!
(qm1 accepts quest request)
qm1: /questassign newbie1 noobtutor1 Go to Planeshift forums and find information, why You should not speak like You did. Your reward will be 250 trias.
(newbie1 accepts quest and checks forums)
newbie1: /questprogress noobtutor1 Hello. I think I know the answer. I should not speak like before, because it is not good for roleplaying.
qm1: /questreply newbie1 noobtutor1 Correct! Your task is complete. Here is Your reward.
qm1: /questreward newbie1 noobtutor1 250 tria
qm1: /questcomplete newbie1 noobtutor1
So, player receives reward for completing quest, QM receives points and/or reward for \"hosting\" quests. Good QMs could be granted special privileges (like spawning monsters), allowing to give better quests (and better rewards).
QM could run both custom (like above noobtutor1;) and official quests.
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I like the idea of Quest Master Mode, this would allow players to check themselves if this role. This could also make some chaos with good and bad quests however in my opinion this would give definitley the more color into game :)
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Lol Wired ... nice scenario. A good idea though, I agree that there should be a global, or at least a larger chat tab than the shouts, for questing.
Another point about quests that I have is ...
The current quests, well those that should be operational, aren\'t bad but I don\'t believe they enhance roleplay. The only results I \'ve seen from them is people shouting \"Where can I find lamp oil?\".
What we need are team quests, like Zulus suggested. The quests should be too hard or even impossible for a single player so they have no choice but to co-operate and engage in roleplaying. This could be done in a few ways .. either create tougher monsters or make sure there are areas where you need different races for. For example you are on a quest to gather the four elemental crystals. After a while you find out where they are: the water crystal deep under the lake surface, the earth crystal in a small tunnel under the ground, the fire crystal in a volcano and the air crystal floating high up in the clouds. You alone could never get all of those so what you need is a Dwarf to delve for the earth crystal, where taller men and women can\'t venture. A Nolthrir or Kran to dive under water and retrieve the water crystal. A person with a Pterosaur to search the skies for the air crystal and a powerful mage who can protect him/herself against molten rock for the fire crystal.
Now a quest like that, just not that cheesy :P, would really enhance rping.
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Well..Really good idea Zan :) But I doubt that these \"n00bs\" as some call them, will come together and RP for the quest the first time, or first few times even. Lets see a scenerio with some greedy newcomers going for them crystals.
Dwarf: Hurry n00b! Swim!!!
Kran: STFU DIG Noob!!111oneoneone!!
Wizard: Fly Idi0t anim4l!!!
*Wizard killed by petrosaur*
Dwarf: n00bz0r pr0n!!!!111!!!
*Dwarf killed by Petrosaur*
*petrosaur killed by Kran*
Guy with Petrosaur: N00bz0rs!!! *killed by rat*
But as you said. There can be RPers mixed with these guys to help..Lets say the wizard is an rper.
Dwarf: STFU n SWin N00bZ0rr!!
Kran: Oh ******* !!11!! Noobz0r hellllppp!!
*Kran killed by goldfish*
Guy/petrosaur: Noob Dwarf SwiIm!!!
Dwarf: STFU N))B I KIll YoU!!
*Dwarf his guy/petrosaur for 0.00000001 damage.*
Dwarf: Die Noobzor!!
RPer Mage: I shall smight all you pathetic creatures! *powerful RP attack* *Mage walks off to tavern*
What I\'m sayin is..they wont get used to it..for a while. Unless talad gives us a miracle.
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ROTFL, LOL, ROFL, LOL, ROTFL
Orthallen, did You witness anything like that ?
You see, they probably haven\'t completed noobtutor1 (2,3,4...) quest :P
Zan, I like Your idea very much. I hope developers will program such cooperative quests. They WILL \"enforce\" roleplaying. But first the world must be expanded.
Cheers
@Zan (and all): Wired is a place, through which I crawl. Fell free to call me... Crawler :D
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Actually I did. I witnessed all of the \"n00b on n00b\" action before. Except for the Kran being killed by the goldfish, of cource.
Dont take it wrong, I mean, I love the idea Zan. But too many people have made team quests things like \"team quests mean bigger rewards\" It wil take some work from the RPers in this community to make the non-rpers get what these quests are actually about. Once and if that happens, your idea will be pure gold :)
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thing is, cooperation != rp, if someone got one of these quests, it doesn\'t mean that person will rp to find helpers, it is probably more likely that he/she/it goes around shouting \"needz groupz0r for quest, moeny 500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!11111\" than go to a tavern or similar and look for participants there, the point is not to force people to cooperate, for powerlevelers can cooperate (they just do it in a more braindead way, like camping a rouge/ulb/other strong creature without a reason together), the point is not making the quests hard in terms of high ranks needed, for powerlevelers tend to have those higher than normal roleplayers, the point is to reward rping while doing those quests! and not giving quests nor rewards to people who use \"cna heav eust plz? 0kthx!!!\", personally I think this could work if we increased the number of gms greatly, and the QM mode is bound to be exploited.
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Well the only way i see now for rewarding true roleplayers and (erase this from mind if you dont like it) punishing 1337ers is checking everybody spelling and behawing by bunch of volunteered GMs or donated Cray with words analizing software straight from CIA ;)
But seriously :
The quests must be constructed in a way wich \'enforce\' roleplaying - simple \"go there, do that and bring me this\" or \"kill that scary monster\" only leads to powerleveling or boring, dependent of reward.
I dont want to say that those quests are useless - they can be used by starting players for getting used to doing quests.
The Zan quest example is quite good - it requires cooperation of players wich not all of them had to be newbies of 1337ers.
RP-er: Hello GoodKiller, I managed to get you an item you requested, where can we meet ?.
GoodKiller: C00l, i\'11 w417 f0r u @ pl44z4, t0 gimm3 th4t !
RP-er: tsk, tsk, I can hardly understand what are you saying to me, behawe properly or you will have to search another person for this job.
This way the chance of succesfully doing quest not in the roleplaying spirit would be much smaller.
The quests could be also assigned by guilds. Each guild could have a job-table where available quests could be posted and other players could assign themselves for the quest(job). The idea is to lead the quest participants by guild member in order to have fun together and get the reward at end(for participans and the member of guild). If someone would behawe in bad way - fails the quest.
Quests could be assigned to guild by GMs, and GMs would have to check the results only for assigning more rewarding quests for the quild, while the members of guild would be responsible for quest leading.
(there are others ways to get the fun while doing that \'quild jobs\' but its little offtopic as i wanted to show main idea only)
I can think of guild where all members are PLevelers and/or 1337ers but simply occasionaly inspections of GMs (invisible mode) while progressing the quest would stop overusing.
Another good type of quest wich my memory brings, are epic quests from EQ - they were long, complicated, reqired help from other players (as the player couldn\'t get to all zones due to racial hostility of NPCs) and long time waiting for spawning specified monster - but the reward was uniqe and everyone was looking with envy at player who finished his epic quest.
PS. sorry for my english, if something isn\'t clear, don\'t hesitate to ask
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Posting for Cha0s, since his access privileges got screwed up.
You\'re missing the solution here, guys. The solution is to directly reward people for role-playing. In the game, GMs need to be given the power to award progression points and trias (and items). A GM sees people role-playing in the plaza, he/she awards 2 PPs and 100 tria (example). He/she can stop by every 15 minutes or so and continue to reward the people if they continue to role-play. Blatant non-RPers could be warned, and then docked trias and progression points. Again, the optimum solution is to make role-play rewards the fastest way to advance in the game. For example, a person RPing constantly and participating in GM events (discussed below) would advance twice as fast (or more) than a \"power-leveler.\"
The other part of this is the quests. Someone (Zan?) said that GM quests would be boring for both players and GMs. The way they\'ve been proposed thus far, yes, they probably would be. The solution is to allow GMs to spawn and posses NPCs. GMs could then possess an NPC, offer a quest, then go off elsewhere, spawn some baddies en route, and possess another NPC. This NPC could redirect the players elsewhere, maybe in the wrong way where the players would \"bump into\" another (GM-possessed) NPC that would set them on the right path. The GMs could work together and gather a bunch of NPCs to role-play with the players to create a truly immersive environment. That way, you not only have players role-playing with players, but players role-playing with GMs, creating a funner game-environment for all. Please don\'t criticize that exact example of a quest, by the way: I\'m in a rush and I scrambled a quick example together. ;)
Two other things that would help this system would be:
1. Global GM shout. This would allow GMs to inform players OOC that an event was planned. They could also set times, meeting places, etc.
2. Invisible GMs when not possessing NPCs. GMs could then roam the world wherever they wanted without the players noticing them. They could use player RP to start their GM events, allowing everything to flow together in a more realistic way. It also would help with the RP reward system as players would not know if they were being observed and thus would be encouraged to RP all the time.
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You are all right that quests can\'t enforce roleplaying, all it can do is create ideas and give the storyline for the players. Of course there will be noobs or whatever doing those quests as well but it is a player\'s choice with whom to co-operate. The main problem with roleplaying that I see currently is that all the roleplayers stand somewhere and talk, there is nothing to do. Give them something to do if you want roleplaying to bloom, I say.
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Directly rewarding the good roleplayers .... hmm (!idea!) - role-playing points given by GMs - similar to the PP. To rank up the skill player would need not only PP and practice, but also some RP points. this is the solution for enforcing roleplaying (and the rebelion reason for others players ;) - but its yours choice to keep the non-roleplayers away from this game, personally i would let them live around as they want to live in game, except gathering more profits than roleplayers)
Cha0s :
For the DM jobs is responsible software wich present the world as we see it and interact with us. GMs are \'above\' that software handling the situations that aren\'t predicted by software to keep the world running smoothly (occasionally organising/leading the events)
So who should encourage players to behawe in the right (roleplaying) way ? The rules build into the world or GM who is standing after me , checking all the time how do i behave ?
I would vote for the rules, as everyone must obey them with no exceptions.
Zan :
I agree fully with you, usually when i spot roleplayers standing at plazaa talking, i have to wait minimum 5 minutes to greet them and get orientation what are they talking about , next 5 minutes thinking how to match my texts to not to broke athmosphere, and usually im ending with few fun/stupid texts/emotions as i missed the part of this roleplaying event. Thats why i would like to participate in roleplaying events from start to end, not from half to middle end (Event/Quest Chat Tab).
Well im not the good storyteller and dont have silvertongue for instant reaction at others speech(no to mention that im not native speaker), but who said that i cannot be good roleplayer without it ? Who would GM reward if the reward for roleplaying would only one for group ? - the player who says the wonderfull story or the player who is silent mostly all the time.
I think if rewarding will be introduced there should be reward for participating also, not only for the most bright player(s) in group.
Another thing :
For me \"Doing something while talking about it\" is much more roleplaying than \"Talking only about doing something\"
Usually i get better fun while constantly whacking the Rogues for swords (!yes i admit im kinda PLer - because there is no other way for me to test this world to its maximums. Talking only about how good wizard/fighter I am won\'t make me that person)
And while constantly killing the rogue for loot with few others players im throwing texts about taking revenge on the poor Rogue for not dropping enough swords, i usually get \"lool\"s and \":)\" but sometimes the other players could think theirs own replies plotting with main - and there fun begins.
I know its stupid example but isn\'t that roleplaying also ?
.. instead of :
GroupChat : looted
GroupChat : looted
GroupChat : looted
GroupChat : looted
....
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Very nice Idea. Maybe make it so that you need 1 RP point every time you want to train something. I\'m using one as an example, because I dont think that you should demand too many, since GMs might not really see a person RP for a bit. So keep it low. Another idea. Every month or so, The traders can bring in special weapons, armor, and robes (I\'m getting ahead of myself) that can only be purchased by RP points. Again, good idea Zulus.
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The RP point solution could work, but you\'d need alot of gms for it to be able to check everything, a better solution would be to give ooc points, if a player speaks ooc without showing it (with brackets, ooc: or some other way) and a gm sees it, the player gets ooc points, and if you have enough ooc points, the npcs will refuse to train/sell to you saying that they don\'t understand your blabbering or similar, the ooc points can be removed by gms if the characters are found engaging in rp later.
I think this system has an advantage to rp points, in that it\'s (slightly) more realistic since the npcs would probably fear the people running around screaming \"w00t\" or knowing everyone elses names without knowing the people, and that it will probably require less gms, rather than reward everyone lest they be unable to advance, just leave the unrpers behind.
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Very nice idea Niavard! Even with this..we would need some more willing GM\'s. not as much as RP points, but some. And the not training/selling thing is great. I\'m sure it\'ll effect some of those power levelers.
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1337ers could be punished in the same way as chat flooding is - the only need is chatspeak dictionary on serwer side and the n99b would be given warning after two uses of those words , and after next three uses he would be muted.
Harder way would be make difference between IC and OOC chat in different situations, i think this would require as much GMs attention as RP points. OOC idea is also quite good , as it prevents non-roleplayers from progression as good as RP points, in fact both methods are the sides of the same medal, Lets just say for good roleplaying you will get +1 RP and for wrong use of OOC chat -1 RP (with negative RP points - the same way as duel points are)
And yes Orthallen, one RP point per skill point is the right number :)
So, after introducing this in game the most often question asked by newbies would be \"Plz tell me how can i make RP poins\" :D
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Well..I think that OOC points is the more likely concept to catch. because most \"noobs\" hang around at the plaza, and so do most GM\'s, making it easier to the GM\'s to just give em out, rather than searching for RPers all across Yliakum. I mean, not all \"n99bs\" are in the plaza, if some would be smart enough to read this, and avoid the plaza, they would be pretty safe. Then again, if they could do that, they\'d just RP :P
EDIT: Since the GM\'s are the ones who will have to enforce this, lets see what they think is better/easier. *hint* *hint* post GM\'s :P
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Excuse me while I scream at all of you.
THE GAME MASTERS ARE HERE TO BE MODERATORS, AND THEY CAN BARELY DO THAT RIGHT!! GIVING THEM MORE POWER IS POINTLESS AND SUICIDAL FOR THE COMMUNITY. PUNISHING NON-ROLEPLAYERS? WHY? BECAUSE YOU DIDN\'T \'CLICK\' WITH THEM? IF YOU WANT A WORKING COMMUNITY YOU DO NOT PISS THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS OFF, THAT\'S WHAT HAS KILLED MANY MMORPGS ALREADY.
Okay, I\'m done.
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Perhaps it \'ll be better to create another group besides the GM\'s that will handle quests and handing out rewards. I don\'t think anyone should be punished by the way since that will only drive people away and create problems. But I don\'t have anything against rewarding roleplaying, I just don\'t want to see a lot of people getting pissed and ruining gameplay for all of us.
Anyway how about a group of Quest Masters or Event Masters who will get the neccesary access to give an extra value to PS by creating story elements and quests. Off the top of my head I \'m thinking of the ability to take the shape of monsters and NPC\'s, change their stats and/or location, change NPC responces/dialogues and hand out rewards in the form of certain experience points, items or trias.
Their job would be to give some variation to the game and make for more interactive experiences. While the GM\'s stay around to do their job. Making sure people behave, nobody abuses names, etc.
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Aren\'t all the things you listed things that the Devs can do? We already have DMs, they are the admins.
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Well actually Mr. Temper, the devs cant do any of those.
Dev-short for developer. Not babysitter to all the n00bness. Admins...wait..doesnt a member/WTB member become an admin? I wanna know the answer to that before I finish my response.
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Game Masters have admin powers(i think looking at the way we get the powers we do..?), so does that make us admins?
I havent put too much effort in to giving quests, yet. When i did the response seemed to be poor, this could have been due to poor planning. I have also seen Platyna attempt to get people moving, she had a nice story line behind hers but players seem to be put off by long lists of collecting items. Currently as i see it we have little that we can use to put on quests.
also like platyna said, if you have suggestions tell us and we can try and get them going.
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Originally posted by Cyrus Arckum
Aren\'t all the things you listed things that the Devs can do? We already have DMs, they are the admins.
Of course the Devs can do all those things but do you want to wait even longer for the next update? I \'m certain the Devs have plenty of work for them already, they shouldn\'t be entertaining us and making a game at the same time. And as far as I know the GM\'s can\'t do most of these things, perhaps the higher level ones ...
I understand that the game isn\'t stable enough at the moment to allow people to mess around to that extent though but this is the wishlist forum. ;)
Drey, of course people will show little interest to finding or collecting items. Either a newbie hears you giving out a quest but since s/he is new to Yliakum they won\'t know where to start and it could take them hours or even days to figure out where that item is. So they won\'t be very interested in carrying out such a quest. Or a player who knows enough and knows where to get said item hears it and goes to get it in a few minutes, if it \'s not too far. Again not much fun or roleplaying in there.
The quests I \'m thinking of need to be well prepared and planned, they are probably more like events. I think a perfect example is Ashamn\'s idea of setting up an expedition to check on the Ulbernauts. It was a very fine roleplaying experience with people playing healers, mages, warriors, scouts, ... That was mostly improvised and worked out nicely. However if there were people with the \'powers\' I mentioned above they could create a lot more events like that and build on storylines.
The expedition to seek out the Ulbers was a nice story but I doubt it will go on simply because we have nothing to go on with. Ideally I would like Yliakum to become a dynamic world where everything changes over time. This can\'t be done with programs or code though, for such a dynamic environment to exist it needs to be under human control.
That is where the Event Masters come in, they can control the NPC\'s and the monsters ... make sure they aren\'t always in the same spot, get spawned on that same location or say the same things day in and day out. They generate a perfect environment for roleplaying, where things change and nothing gets boring. It \'s all about giving people oppertunities.
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Well Zan, if you have any plans i am willing to help out
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My concern about this scheme is how you would prevent corrupt practices by those in charge. Fir instance, suppose 2 playeds do a quest, Player A is not known to the GM/DM and recieves a reward (say 100 tria and 5pp\'s). Player B does the same quest but is well known and liked by the GM/DM, what would prevent him from awarding his friend 1000 tria and 50 pp\'s?
Like it or not, politics is in play in Yliakum...
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logging of GM actions, if we abuse our power we get in trouble.
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GM\'s aren\'t just picked out of the blue and thrown into no-mans land, they are monitored, taught, monitored again, tested and trusted, wether we like someone or not we do treat everyone equally and before people start telling me to shut up because of incidents i have been involved in I\'d say it\'s best to know absolutely everything about it before you throw the blame, impartialness and one sided opinions dont make the truth, being honest and straight forward does, that is what GM\'s do
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Originally posted by Drey
Well Zan, if you have any plans i am willing to help out
That is good to know and appreciated. I \'ve already been offered help from quite a few Game Masters with most of my projects or quests. Alden was there throughout most of the Festival of the Hunt and coughed up a very nice sum of prizemoney, a GM was always available when I performed a wedding to rename the happy bride. And recently Stfrn put a bounty on the Ulber\'s head who was making the forest road unsafe.
All this in the defence of the GM\'s ... however, and this isn\'t meant personal at all, the GM abilities to create events like the ones I \'m hoping for are very limited. Basically all they can do is cough up funds or perhaps even teleport a person on occasion. I \'d like to see them or a seperate group, doesn\'t really matter, to have more ways of altering the world in the future.
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I\'m glad, that someone shares my opinion (Zan, about Event/Quest Masters), I\'m happy that GMs are willing to help (maybe You are not so evil, Drey ;) ), and I\'m surprised, that GMs have so little powers.
Let me bring to the forum this example once again: Second Life: Features (http://secondlife.com/features). Players can alter the world in many, many ways, they can also create sub-games... I don\'t say, that PS should copy any of that features (if it is possible at all), but ... NPCs (even with excelent AI) will never substitute living man, who can react to many non-standard player actions and make improvisations. I also think, that it is not good idea to create closed group of \'gods\' controling the world. I think, that life of GMs is not easy, probably sometimes they would like to participate in events like ordinary players... And sometimes ordinary player would like to make others happy by using his invention (I wrote \"sometimes\" ).
Cheers
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Games I have played, only the first couple of quests in the game are doable in a row, but once you have completed a couple of them, you get to the point were you are not strong enough to complete the next one & you have to spend hours training just to get to the next quest, & by that time the exp/money reward for the quest is not usually even worth it.
So, I say that you should get more & more relative exp for doing quests, if you spent 2 hours on a quests, you should get more exp then if you spent 2 hours endlessly fighting monsters.
You should be able to advance just as fast or faster only doing quests (even accounting walking time from npc to quest & back). And there should be enough quests so there isn\'t a gap were you have to endlessly kill monsters. Also I\'d like randomness in quests (such as finding a certain thing, it should not be in the same place every time you do the quest so it\'s unmapable...)
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The day the GMs start messing with the settings of PS is the day the game gets entirely screwed. Don\'t get me wrong, the GMs are nice and all, but they\'re GMs. They have no clue what\'s the settings is all about. If you want these so called Event Masters, you\'re looking for a solution which includes someone from the settings development team that joins the game with a GM9 char, and plays out a plot ingame. GMs aren\'t game masters in your P&P way. All they\'re supposed to do is make sure people don\'t swear and don\'t get stuck. But sure, if you wan\'t an even worse roleplaying situation than the current one, go ahead and keep wishing for this to happen. I promise you that you\'ll regret it. :)
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But do they really have to screw with the settings that much? Just being able to move things like normal players move a sword lying on the floor is already a lot. I think the game could be made so that things like this are possible with more or less the same interface we normal players have. Of course you can\'t give them access to all the actual game settings. Right now GMs can already teleport themselves and others though so it \'s obviously not hard to build on that command to allow them to move NPC\'s and monsters. That \'s a start already but I do understand this won\'t be happening before everything gets stabilized and debugged.
I \'m just not sure if it\'s really that impossible or destructive as you make it out to be. Of course it will require a lot of work from the devs but this is only a suggestion, one which I think could be made to work greatly and it is something rather unique in the gaming world.