PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bnm85 on July 14, 2005, 10:49:48 pm
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...no real danger.
I want to say something right away - I am looking forward to this game. I\'m not trying to find reasons not to play it or put it down. If I didn\'t have hopes that the game might become great or the best MMO, I wouldn\'t even care about posting the suggestions and impressions. Any \"complains\" or suggestions I post are not meant to put down PS devs. This is simply honest opinion of a player who tries to picture playing this game for a long time. If you play something for a long time, might as well enjoy it as much as you can. Also, I understand that this is only a tech demo, so I do have hopes that a lot of things that concern me now will be changed. So, now that this is out of the way, let\'s get on with my post.
First, the game feels very claustrophobic. I\'m all for originality and such but not when it hurts the overall atmosphere. The sky, for example, leaves a lot to be desired, whether it\'s daytime or nighttime. Now, I know that we\'re underground, with the only source of light being the crystal but the reminder of it in game is exremely painful and unenjoyable. Not just from a game point of view but from a technical point of view. Never have I been reminded so much of the dreaded \"bounding box\" in the game, as in PlanShift. The result is that suspension of disbelief is ruined. Didn\'t the story say that no one can get too close to the crystal? So, why does it feel like it and the ceiling/walls are practically pressing onto your head? For example, let\'s compare the sky in PS and WoW.
Here\'s the WoW\'s beautiful nightsky:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3155/nightsky23qg.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5797/nightsky1pe.jpg
Doesn\'t feel claustrophobic at all.
And here\'s PS\' sky (day or night, they look the same, with night being more dimmed):
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/8315/shot025xz.jpg
We can already see the \"walls\" or \"ceiling\" pressing so close. It just doesn\'t feel like freedom. It feels like being trapped in a box. This is even further illustrated by this image:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1360/shot033dv.jpg
Not only is the texture either really compressed or low resolution, it feels like being inside a can. It feels like I can just raise my arm and be able to touch it.
The next shot is actually kind of neat (taken from a place you sould not normally be able to get to):
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3766/shot048ae.jpg
I think the game is really limiting itself here. I mean, the crystal is supposed to be magical and really powerful but yet it barely lights up the top of the \"underground\". Just look at it in relation to the towers that are visible. It looks like the whole place is extremely small. There\'s no sense of the unknown that lies far ahead. You already know what lies far ahead - another darn cave wall or \"end of the world\".
Here\'s another claustrophobic shot in relation to a tower:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3310/shot058rx.jpg
Perhaps it wouldn\'t be so bad if the sky texture that shows the walls/ceiling wasn\'t so low res or compressed.
Compare it to these WoW screenshots:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1505/water7zl.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6985/water23pv.jpg
These really show a sense of unknown beyond. While in PS, we probably won\'t even see any rivers or lakes that hold a mystery beyond them, except at the bottom level maybe.
Here\'s a really great shot of WoW\'s sky and water:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7592/nightskyandwater4mk.jpg
It really gives a sense of freedom above you and the unknown that lies ahead.
I\'m asking - why limit yourself? Frankly, I wish the game would be based on a normal land/planet with the nightsky, the stars, and the moon, and clouds and sun in the daytime. I understand that this game is trying to be different and original but in this case, being trapped underground seems like its limiting itself. However, I don\'t want to disrespect someone\'s vision of such an interesting world. So, if we\'re going to stick to it, why not explore the fact that the azure crystal is extremely powerful and magical? Why always have a static weakly lit and pixelated sky? It\'s magical after all! Why not create unusual magical energies in the sky? Perhaps it can have a similar effect to falling stars (comets), various energy spikes, interesting patterns formed, some sort of ancient symbols that almost no one can read (but some interesting NPCs possibly can). At a night time, it might form its own magical constellations or just something really out of this world. Who\'s to say the crystal can\'t create its own atmosphere with magical clouds etc? Heck, even the loading screen for PS shows something that looks like clouds. Also, why not lit the whole top, so the walls/ceiling isn\'t even visible? I mean, the crystal is extremely powerful! If the walls are visible, the suspension of disbelief and the feeling that the lands inside are vast and many areas are unknown, is ruined.
Next comes the forest... Why, oh why does it have to look like a labyrynth with trees painted on walls that is so painfully obvious? Let\'s see what PS\' forest looks like:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6161/shot061jp.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/264/shot093ha.jpg
It looks more like walls than forest. Now, I understand that it might be necessary to force a certain path sometimes but why do it this way? Here\'s a great example from WoW of a forced forest path that really looks like a forest:
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/269/forest6nl.jpg
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/6753/forest25bn.jpg
Instead of making it like you\'re walking inside a canyon or a ditch, have the hills and mountains gradually elevated on the sides of a path, with lone trees set here and there. Now, if a person decides to wander off through those trees (if you decide to let them get up the smaller hills on the sides), they will eventually meet steeper and steeper mountains on the sides that they cannot cross. OR you can put these painted trees on the extreme walls. But a person wouldn\'t see them unless they wander off too far left or right from a path.
Another issue I have is the game seems to love extreme drops and elevations in anything from stairs to often-walked paths. Never have I seen such sudden drops or elevations. Sometimes I worry like I might\'ve falled into a pit when I walk in a forest and suddenly the path drops like a mutha. The example is in the first forest screenshot from PS I posted. I wish the drops and raises were much more gradual. Also, some stairs feel too big compared to a character model size. Also, why the area around the Plaza is so steep is also unclear. Why can\'t the city/village be a little more flat with only natural and slight elevations or drops? I guess it might work in a sense that cities in Lord of the Rings movies had such sudden elevations and drops but looked beautiful nontheless. Still, it doesn\'t quite seem the same. Plus, here comes claustrophobia again with everything so tightly bunched up together. Even the tavern seems claustrophobic with you getting stuck on every little chair and table. Games often exaggerate the insides of the building, so people can actually gather and walk there without getting stuck on every object.
Another unattractive thing I found were these blocky elevations on sides of the city entrances:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2167/shot100zk.jpg
Instead, this other (left) side of the same entrace is a little more attractive:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7752/shot118bm.jpg
But instead of raising it so much with a painted wall of forest behind it, raise it a little more gradually, with more of this lone trees (actual tree models) getting more and more dense as you walk further through them (if you decide to do so), eventually ending either with steep uncrossable mountains or that painted wall of forest. It\'s a lot more believable that way. Never have I seen such steep mountain raises and dense uncrossable forests so close to the outside of a city in any game. If it\'s a city, with a lot of merchants coming in and out, it\'d at least have a limited open field outside, maybe with some broken carts laying here and there, a few passages in different directions, with lone tree models getting more and more dense until finally reaching a forest.
Finally, once you get outside into a more open area, this feels a lot less claustrophobic, it finally feels like you have much more freedom and possibly something unknown that lies beyond:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9713/shot126op.jpg
However, here comes another problem... Why is the relief so extreme all over? It almost seems like randomly generated relief like in those old games where you fly a ship that shoots lasers with occasional enemy ship flying at you, and the relief below is all a solid color and very extreme. Where are the occasional flat surfaces, so people can actually see each other running from afar? Right now there are too many sudden drops and the passages are so narrow in them that it yet again manages to feel claustrophobic.
Also, when you try to follow a road/path in that area that leads to various interesting points, at first it seems like it\'s a walked path because of a different texture but occassionally the \"path\" texture will stray off onto a mountain like this:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9016/shot075qe.jpg
Unless people have learned to walk on \"walls\", it seems out of place, especially because the path texture ends on the path, like this:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3828/shot082rm.jpg
Also, notice that sudden and exaggerated elevation visible inside the \"tower\" path again.
Last but not least - where\'s the sense of danger in the game? When a new visitor comes to the site, they see a cozy tavern and a dwarf, that\'s it. Every interesting MMO out there has some kind of struggle or conflict or a sense of danger, be it different factions or some new enemy trying to conquer the innocent folk. Is the real conflict between Laanx and Talad? Or is Vodul the real villain here that will show his \"face\" eventually? I can\'t really hate Laanx or see her as evil, since from the story Talad stupidly used crytal powers without knowing how to properly use it first. But yet, he doesn\'t seem especially evil either. The only one that I see as evil is Vodul because he tried to make Laanx give him special umm \"favors\" (you know what I mean). There doesn\'t seem to be any independant conquering race. They all seem to live together fairly happily and the only goal to reach is to become a hero. But how can you become a hero without a serious danger or villain to defeat? Random ungoverned monsters or even small goverened enemies here and there, just for the sake of being in the game, doesn\'t quite pass up as \"glooming danger\" in the bigger picture/story of the game. Of course, this is only a tech demo, perhaps the real danger will come in the full game.
Also, it\'s kind of odd seeing Laanx being referred to as she in the story at first, and then as a he. Did she change into a \"he\" after the transformation? If Laanx is supposed to be evil now because of the transofrmation, it\'s extremely difficult to see her as such because Talad was dumb enough and careless enough to use the crystal with disregard for her.
I don\'t think it would be so unoriginal to have some kind of evil or a villain in this game. Make the evil and villain themselves original and it\'ll all be good.
As of now though, I can\'t help but feel the game is too claustrophobic, so I keep wishing to get out of that dreadful place as soon as possible, hoping that in the future players can finally get out to the surface and explore new lands.
I really hope I didn\'t offend anyone with these comments. It was not my intention to do so. My concerns actually come from wanting to like this game. I see so many resources being dedicated to this game, so many talented people working on it. None of it should be wasted. So, that is the only reason for my post.
Also, if you feel it belongs on a different forum than this, such as \"Wishlist\", feel free to move it there.
Excuse any typos or errors and thanks! :-)
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Thats all fine and dandy, and I agree with most. But comparing this pre alpha and WoW is like comparing WoW and the legendart \"elder scrolls Oblivion\" It just doesnt go like that :P. Compare PS with another free 3d mmorpg, and it will feel much less claustrophobic. Trust me.
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I addressed the comparrison issue in my post but it said it was too long, so I had to remove it. I will clarify it now though.
I am NOT comparing a free tech demo to a commercial game like WoW. WoW just happened to be the game I used for sky, forest and the like screenshots and approaches. There are non-MMO games that have it done nicely as well. Never would I compare PS and WoW overall as MMOs, I was strictly taking geometrical and cosmetical approaches in two games, ignoring the rest.
But if you want to compare freebies, the sky in \"Knight Online\", which is a complete free MMORPG feels less limiting, and the game feels much less claustrophobic too. Not to mention without such crazy non-stop relief changes without a \"flat\" surface \"breather\". Here are example screenshots:
http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/pianavillage.jpg
http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-1.jpg
http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-4.jpg
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I have to say I really do not get the claustrophobic aspect of Planeshift\'s sky. Maybe I have bad eyesight or something but it \'s nothing like being in a tiny cave to me.
Perhaps I could advice that you take a trip to the \'end of the world\' and see things from a whole other perspective.
Of course the quality of the sky\'s graphics aren\'t extremely well yet and neither is the lighting but that will improve after more important issues are behind us.
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Well, I did take the trip to \"the end of the world\" and even fell from it but it didn\'t quite help the matter... Perhaps the fact that the sky is used as a single texture is hurting it a lot. Meaning that a spot where you\'re supposed to see the walls/ceiling through the light \"beams\" seems to be merged into one texture. Perhaps if the ceiling and walls were extremely detailed and non-pixelated, and if the light was actually passing/falling on top of it through the lighting and not a texture, it might\'ve made a huge difference.
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sky? we have no sky
we have the cavern celing, lit by the azure crystal that pierces through the surface world into the cavern bringing with it the lkight that helps us grow.
yes its not so great right now, this is pre alpha wow is fully finished, also it was made but hundreds possibly thousands of payed developers for a multitude of years.
planeshift simply is not.
Search button comes in handy, reading the history of planeshift would help too.
:)
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reading the history of planeshift would help too
Last but not least - where\'s the sense of danger in the game? When a new visitor comes to the site, they see a cozy tavern and a dwarf, that\'s it. Every interesting MMO out there has some kind of struggle or conflict or a sense of danger, be it different factions or some new enemy trying to conquer the innocent folk. Is the real conflict between Laanx and Talad? Or is Vodul the real villain here that will show his \"face\" eventually? I can\'t really hate Laanx or see her as evil, since from the story Talad stupidly used crytal powers without knowing how to properly use it first. But yet, he doesn\'t seem especially evil either. The only one that I see as evil is Vodul because he tried to make Laanx give him special umm \"favors\" (you know what I mean). There doesn\'t seem to be any independant conquering race. They all seem to live together fairly happily and the only goal to reach is to become a hero. But how can you become a hero without a serious danger or villain to defeat? Random ungoverned monsters or even small goverened enemies here and there, just for the sake of being in the game, doesn\'t quite pass up as \"glooming danger\" in the bigger picture/story of the game. Of course, this is only a tech demo, perhaps the real danger will come in the full game.
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your \"random evil figures\" will actually be the players. Players that become corrupt Octarch\'s, players who lead evil guilds, players who reak havoc amonst cities. We dont need any NPC bad guy, since we the players will handle it ourselves
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Heh, I, for one, was pleasantly surprised to have the ceiling actually look like one. I was expecting a blueish noncommitting featureless nothingness as sky. This way, it actually feels like one is inside a cave. I agree that the ceiling looks quite close, and I think with it being so close there is no way rain can form, but it will be exactly like this, if not closer, on the other levels. The first level will AFAICS be the only one with a really big distance from the ceiling. Also, the ceiling cannot be insanely far away, anyway, since we\'re still inside a stalactite which can\'t waste a lot of space to air.
Also, the reason why the cavern walls look so close by is that the maps are so tiny. You will notice that the walls / ceiling are surrounding each map individually, not the entire world, as it theoretically would be. Thus, the arena, which is small in diameter, indeed looks like the inside of a can, even though the surrounding elevations remove a bit of that impression. :)
As for the random path texture: I ddn\'t really regard it as path texture, except in the end and the beginning. To me, it looks more like differences in composition of the floor, like it changing from rock to mud to grass, etc.. The only places that need, and indeed have, \"path\" texture are the ones where every traveller will walk, i.e., the forest entrance and the Korogan passage.
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Originally posted by Zan
Originally posted by Zan
Of course the quality of the sky\'s graphics aren\'t extremely well yet and neither is the lighting but that will improve after more important issues are behind us.
In which direction will they improve? Even when I feel certain modifications will make the sky look much better, I fear it may still project that feeling of claustrophobia. It almost seems like the whole game was designed to be claustrophobic, starting from being underground, in a limited space. Besides, I\'m commenting on how it is now and nowhere was it specifically said by the devs that the sky will look vastly different. But I do hope for the best ;)
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Originally posted by Ashamn
reading the history of planeshift would help too
Well, reading my post fully would help even more. ;)
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Originally posted by dragonfire999
your \"random evil figures\" will actually be the players. Players that become corrupt Octarch\'s, players who lead evil guilds, players who reak havoc amonst cities. We dont need any NPC bad guy, since we the players will handle it ourselves
I didn\'t mean that the villain and his minion would all be AI controlled. Perhaps an evil villain figure could exist but the players could choose to be part of his minion when creating a character. As it is right now, the \"villains\" seem rather trivial, IMO. But we will see, I guess.
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Originally posted by Demarthl
Search button comes in handy, reading the history of planeshift would help too.
From the history posted in PS page:
\"Laanx was a tall and perfectly shaped female with long, white hair as silky as the threads of a spider\'s web.\"
and...
\"Vod?l agreed their requests, but in exchange wished for Talad to become one of his servants and Laanx to become one of his lovers. Laanx and Talad accepted the exchange, because Vod?l was a kind master and a pleasant consort.\"
Yes, Vodul is real kind to Laanx there.
To surprise and amaze him, she drew the incommensurable power of the azure crystal as much as she could and, in secret, mimicked the rituals of Vod?l to give life to some creatures reproduced in her image.
So, if it was in secret. How did Talad know she used the crystal? Sure, he discovered her creations but not that she used the crystal. So, he assumed? Even if he did see her use the crystal, did it not cross his mind to ask Vodul even once about the crystal? The beginning of history said that Vodul was guiding both of them. Did he not know that Laanx was vulnerable to some things too? I mean, you don\'t try to make a remote controlled bomb in front of your friend, just because he made one that works, unless you know what you\'re doing. :)
\"She thought that Vod?l had taught Talad the secret of the energy and let him work, because she trusted him and she did not want him to be sad. But she was wrong.\"
Then it starts referring to Laanx as a \"he\":
\"Taking care not to reveal his presence to Talad, Laanx observed Yliakum and saw with disappointment that some people had arrived.\"
Sure, it earlier said that she denied her femininity but it was still a female to begin with. ;)
Yes, Laanx is pissed but does not seem like a villain at all. However, Vodul does.
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A very nice post, actually. I applaud you for taking the time to organize and write it out. I personally don\'t think any of the suggestions you made are unreasonable, and they\'re something to keep in mind as the development of the world continues. The entirety of the World-Crystal and its properties are most likely planned out, but not made public by the devs, so as far as I know there may be chances for some really interesting \"sky\"/ceiling effects. There are no major lakes/rivers, as water is plentiful only in the very lowest of the PlaneShift levels. (Which brings a question to mind: how do the inhabitants of the current two cities get their water supply? Some sort of system for storing rainwater? Or are lakes and streams indeed around?)
It will be quite a while before the forests lose their wall-ness and appear more free, and in fact it will be quite a while before many of the things you\'ve suggested are possible. But never really impossible, I think ;)
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Thanks for not flaming me, heh. And thanks for understanding what I meant. I fully understand that this is just a tech demo, and while many specifics have not been given (such as on the sky/crystal), I did see mention of the game looking much better in the future. These suggestions are only how I personally feel about things right now, and to keep in mind during the development. After all, the demo is released publically, and I\'m sure the devs want and appreciate constructive criticism. I believe my post was constructive enough. :)
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Originally posted by Bnm85 I addressed the comparrison issue in my post but it said it was too long, so I had to remove it. I will clarify it now though. I am NOT comparing a free tech demo to a commercial game like WoW. WoW just happened to be the game I used for sky, forest and the like screenshots and approaches. There are non-MMO games that have it done nicely as well. Never would I compare PS and WoW overall as MMOs, I was strictly taking geometrical and cosmetical approaches in two games, ignoring the rest. But if you want to compare freebies, the sky in \"Knight Online\", which is a complete free MMORPG feels less limiting, and the game feels much less claustrophobic too. Not to mention without such crazy non-stop relief changes without a \"flat\" surface \"breather\". Here are example screenshots: http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/pianavillage.jpg http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-1.jpg http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-4.jpg
You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?
Just to point that out. As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.
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Hey...I thought up an in-game reason for the wipe...How about this...
The sky is falling...thats why its so low. The \"Powers that be\" hold the crystal up, but all the new GM\'s are sucking power from the higher powers powers to feed their own puny powers, making the \"Powers that be\" tired....They have decided that they need a weeks rest and so they are letting it drop...Mwohahaha
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There are underground streams that come out of the cavern walls. It is said they join at the bottom, but that does not mean that none of them flow through the higher levels. Therefore, I think ther indeed are several rivers on the various levels.
Rain, OTOH, is IMO very scarce, not to say impossible given the very limited air space, the matter-dissolving properties of the crystal, etc.. Also, some NPCs mention an \"emerald lake\", which must be near Hydlaa, so there is a lot of open water.
As for Vodul: I don\'t know. They wouldn\'t have had to agree to the trade, so it\'s their fault.
Also, both of them surely are fools. Laanx wasn\'t any better than Talad in that she messed around with things she, at best, had seen from a distance. So she was building her bomb in the building nextdoors instead of right in front of her friend, and with a little more clue. Still, both were grossly negligent IMO.
Anyway, I don\'t know of any occasion Vodun would have interfered with the life in Yliakum, so he\'s not the best villain. :)
Anyway, I see the remaining issues as rather obvious. My, IIRC, I have commented on them way back when the first screenies of CB were released! :) So I obviously agree, but by that time I was told that a change would not be to be expected anytime soon... and knowing the PS \"soon\", this will be years[/] from now. Still, it\'s a lot of better suggestions than the \"Armor should be visible\" ones. :D
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Originally posted by Robinmagus
You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?
Yes but it is possible to play it completely free and people continue to do so. But as a game itself, KO is crap, you can play without money but people that get real benefits are those who pay real cash for premium accounts. However, as I stated before, I am not comparing the games as a whole, just certain design approaches. There\'s nothing in PS engine that would make it purposely hard in archieving it. Besides, PS is striving to be the \"best MMO\" out there, isn\'t it? ;)
As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.
Thanks! :D
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Originally posted by Seytra
There are underground streams that come out of the cavern walls. It is said they join at the bottom, but that does not mean that none of them flow through the higher levels. Therefore, I think ther indeed are several rivers on the various levels.
Rain, OTOH, is IMO very scarce, not to say impossible given the very limited air space, the matter-dissolving properties of the crystal, etc.. Also, some NPCs mention an \"emerald lake\", which must be near Hydlaa, so there is a lot of open water.
As for Vodul: I don\'t know. They wouldn\'t have had to agree to the trade, so it\'s their fault.
Also, both of them surely are fools. Laanx wasn\'t any better than Talad in that she messed around with things she, at best, had seen from a distance. So she was building her bomb in the building nextdoors instead of right in front of her friend, and with a little more clue. Still, both were grossly negligent IMO.
Anyway, I don\'t know of any occasion Vodun would have interfered with the life in Yliakum, so he\'s not the best villain. :)
Anyway, I see the remaining issues as rather obvious. My, IIRC, I have commented on them way back when the first screenies of CB were released! :) So I obviously agree, but by that time I was told that a change would not be to be expected anytime soon... and knowing the PS \"soon\", this will be years[/] from now. Still, it\'s a lot of better suggestions than the \"Armor should be visible\" ones. :D
Hehe, I agree with most of your points. Both Laanx and Talad don\'t seem too smart. The history even said they often disregarded the warnings of wiser gods, so I\'m not surprised Talad went ahead and made a huge mess. Yes, it is partially their fault for agreeing to Vodul\'s \"proposition\" but it also shows that Vodul is anything but nice and kind. The whole thing seems rather messy. That\'s why I didn\'t pick to worship anyone with my character. I can\'t possibly worship gods like that, no matter the rewards.
They did mention other older gods. Heck, even Vodul might become more of a villain if he isn\'t now. Maybe he gets jealous of something, who knows. Perhaps he can start sending his own monsterous creations to conquer the crystal world. Maybe Laanx and Talad or the inhabitants of the world discover something valuable that Vodul will suddenly want. Or it can be some other unnamed older god.
I believe someone mentioned making a video that clearly shows the history or at least key moments for the game, and I think it\'s a great idea. I wish someone talented with CGI skills actually made an intro for the game, and some talented musician wrote a dramatic score for it.
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Originally posted by Bnm85 Originally posted by Robinmagus You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?
Yes but it is possible to play it completely free and people continue to do so. But as a game itself, KO is crap, you can play without money but people that get real benefits are those who pay real cash for premium accounts. However, as I stated before, I am not comparing the games as a whole, just certain design approaches. There\'s nothing in PS engine that would make it purposely hard in archieving it. Besides, PS is striving to be the \"best MMO\" out there, isn\'t it? ;) As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.
Thanks! :D
\"MMORPG\" actually. forgeting the rp in PS is equivelant to first degree murder ;)
Oh and your welcome
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I get that closed in feeling too when I play ps. I don\'t feel it so much outside but in buildings I get it a LOT. I actually like to stay outside because of it. Unless im in somthing like the tempel. Oh and, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! 8o
You shouldn\'t be able to see such a curve in the sky like that. It makes it look solid.
To tell the truth actually, when I first read about ps I was hoping that when I looked up I would see the massive ceiling of the cave with a bright light in the middle, that would be ausome.
Or even better, were in a cave! Lose the crystal and make it dark 24/7! Wow that would add such a dark feeling to ps, I LOVE IT!!!!!!!
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Yay someone with clear and concise suggestions for further development. I do think it?s a little unfair to put in the WoW screenshots but as you say it\'s not a comparison but an example. The only thing is it does come across as more of a critique than suggestions that you would like to see implemented.
I may not agree with all of what you say but it\'s so nice to see someone that can articulate their grievances without resorting to three word statements and unjustified comments of \"This game is c**p\".
Some of the best input and I have seen.
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Too many posts, don\'t have time to read them all..
Anyway, I fully agree with you, the sky.. .sucks..
About the forest path, that will change, it\'s marly a transition map atm.
Everything will be improved in time, we just focus on stuff to keep the players busy for a time (quests and stuff) before we look into fixing maps. For example, we need to do the wipe before we can start fixing on more non-important things
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about the elevation inside Hydlaa; looking as the city is quite limited in space, looking at the cliffs on one side; the river on the second one and the forest on the third, and it is obviously a \"grown\" city it is somewhat logic that they used any space somewhat useable to build their city on. Just a thought.
If it comes to Odjaroad, I actually liked it there, but I would appreciate it more if it was actually some kind of mountainrange. Also all those hills somehow encourage a system of tunnels.
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Seytra\'s post a while back confused me. Hydlaa is on the First Level. So if you\'re travelling down to other levels, how is the sky possibly coming closer...? We are closest to the sky at the moment. Other levels will show a sky far higher than that seen anywhere on the First Level.
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That\'s funny. I can\'t explain why, but I always thought, that every level has its own ceiling (which acts as floor for higher level)... Moogie, are You trying to tell, that every level (but lowest) has the shape of flat donut ? Wow. First level will be big... We can\'t even see the central shaft now... Or can we ? Is the current end of the world the edge of the first level ? And this explains all confusion about directions (where is east, where north). We should rather use \"Disc World\" method of defining directions. :)
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i suppose each level is donut shaped, until the bottom one, directions though.
from what i remember the slops going up towards the windowless tower is north, laanx statue faces south south west or someting similar to that :\\
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Sorta, but only half. The roofs are sloped in order for light to reach the lower Levels, otherwise they\'d be in darkness.
http://www.albinomoogie.net/images/yliakummoogie.jpg
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Originally posted by Bnm85
Last but not least - where\'s the sense of danger in the game? When a new visitor comes to the site, they see a cozy tavern and a dwarf, that\'s it. Every interesting MMO out there has some kind of struggle or conflict or a sense of danger, be it different factions or some new enemy trying to conquer the innocent folk. Is the real conflict between Laanx and Talad? Or is Vodul the real villain here that will show his \"face\" eventually? I can\'t really hate Laanx or see her as evil, since from the story Talad stupidly used crytal powers without knowing how to properly use it first. But yet, he doesn\'t seem especially evil either. The only one that I see as evil is Vodul because he tried to make Laanx give him special umm \"favors\" (you know what I mean). There doesn\'t seem to be any independant conquering race. They all seem to live together fairly happily and the only goal to reach is to become a hero. But how can you become a hero without a serious danger or villain to defeat? Random ungoverned monsters or even small goverened enemies here and there, just for the sake of being in the game, doesn\'t quite pass up as \"glooming danger\" in the bigger picture/story of the game. Of course, this is only a tech demo, perhaps the real danger will come in the full game.
I can\'t describe how happy I em that someone wrote about it.
It makes me wonder all the time if Yliakum will be ever a bit dangerous. With all those people screaming \"he have stole my kill. Ban him, ban him!\" or \"You are being rude and selfish which is no roleplaying at all because roleplaying is only when everybody are happy\"
I don\'t know how others, but I would hate to live in world where everybody love each other and those who don\'t are banned.
Maybe it is only me, but I truly wonder what is the goal of GM\'s. Especially that any discussion about GM\'s work are closed and there is not much to learn about how problems are solved and if it is always the right way.
Just my few tria, I hope nobody will hang me for that.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Sorta, but only half. The roofs are sloped in order for light to reach the lower Levels, otherwise they\'d be in darkness.
http://www.albinomoogie.net/images/yliakummoogie.jpg
Aaaahhh...
/me slaps his forehead.
That image in player guide is so small and dark... I haven\'t noticed, that it is longitudinal section... Now I had a good look at it.
To Bnm85: I\'m sure, that You will feel better on 4th level, especially at the inner edge :]
To Moogie: Could You add a simple section of Hydlaa and large tower to your picture (if You are right person to do it of course) ? This would help to judge, if the \"sky\" is high enough.
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Forgive me being off-topic...
Originally posted by Demarthl
from what i remember the slops going up towards the windowless tower is north, laanx statue faces south south west or someting similar to that :\\
Yes, You can find out about it while speaking to NPCs, although some informations are confusing. However, in my opinion, it is not good way to name directions in this circular world. I would rather like to know, if statue \"looks\" in the direction of central axis or opposite, if the road to Oja goes clockwise or counter-clockwise or along radius etc.
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Just to mention, there is an outside world...so maybe some day we\'ll see the stars, etc...
And welcome!
EDIT: Typos has been removed...
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Originally posted by Robinmagus
\"MMORPG\" actually. forgeting the rp in PS is equivelant to first degree murder ;)
Heh, don\'t worry, I didn\'t forget. It\'s just a shortened term for MMORPG. ;)
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Also, thanks everyone for your compliments so far. And I want to stress it again that I do appreciate the devs\' work, so this was not meant to put anyone down. It\'s great to see/hear the comments and explanations so far.
One of the things that makes a game interesting for me is a sense of something unknown happening or lurking around. That something may not be right or is worth being cautious about. For example, you\'re walking down an abandoned path with your party, and finaly come to an old church of some sort. It has an old cemetery outside as well. An eerie music plays on the background. And everything about the place just feels off, so you start investigating... My oh my, that would keep me glued to my computer all night. :)
I want to feel that there\'s a lot more than meets the eye. For example, the history says:
\"They were unaware of a huge maze of tunnels present in the crust of the world, later called the Stone Labyrinths, where other creatures were already lurking in the dark. \"
So, those creatures could be anything or anyone. They could be hiding something shocking or be part of something unexpected, evil or not. Where did they come from? Do they have a leader or a home to go to? I love a good mystery! :D
And yes, I truely hope that we will be able to go to the surface and explore a whole new world there. From history:
\"Guided by an ancient and powerful god, named Vod?l, god of the future events, they discovered one quiet planet with a crystal column full of energy and mystery.\"
So, we know that a magical crystal column is visible on the surface and is full of mystery.
Also, all the talk about each race\'s origins gives me hope that we eventually get to visit their homes. Such as Diaboli\'s homeland:
\"A popular tradition tells that their homeland was a burning land that continuously erupted black smoke (this may suggest the presence of a volcano), a dark and perpetually cloudy sky and sulphuric rivers of flowing blood. Some sages believe they originated in a distant, unexplored universe, but opinions are contradictory.\"
That would be interesting to see. :)
Unfortunately, some other race\'s homeland mentions that it\'s even deeper underground... Personally, I want more open space. I need space and freedom. Let me ooooouuuuuuuuut!! :D
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I have to admit the underground setting of the game, may limit the games skies in some aspects but theres still room for improvement. theeres room for all kinds of magical light coming from the azure sun which i know you cant see at the moment. perhaps that would be a cool addition would be a visual of the crystal that radiates different types of light throughout the day.
Also i think its ludacris to even compare this game to World of Warcraft. Remeber that Blizzard is raking in 15 dollars a month from all of the hundreds of thousands of people that play it. And i dont want to dissrespect the PS Devs but i have a feeling that the experience of the blizzard team is beyond that of the PS team by a good deal. You also have to remember that this game uses crystal space, a FREE engine, and created by volunteers and not sponsored by companies like sony. So i think if youre expecting that planeshift is going to become WOW caliber anytime soon then youre dreaming.
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the things you told about the sky are totally true, but since ps world is in a cave there is no other option. still i think that you shouldnt see the ceiling, because of the crystal and because of the gigantity of the cave. it\'s a world, it has rivers, lakes and a sea at the bottom, we are only walking on 1 level! at the levels 123456 you shouldnt see the ceiling, just because its miles high. rain cannot form in a cave, but water can drip grough the ground and the ceiling, that equals rain....
nothing more to say here, i have bad english.
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Originally posted by Gentar
I have to admit the underground setting of the game, may limit the games skies in some aspects but theres still room for improvement. theeres room for all kinds of magical light coming from the azure sun which i know you cant see at the moment. perhaps that would be a cool addition would be a visual of the crystal that radiates different types of light throughout the day.
Also i think its ludacris to even compare this game to World of Warcraft. Remeber that Blizzard is raking in 15 dollars a month from all of the hundreds of thousands of people that play it. And i dont want to dissrespect the PS Devs but i have a feeling that the experience of the blizzard team is beyond that of the PS team by a good deal. You also have to remember that this game uses crystal space, a FREE engine, and created by volunteers and not sponsored by companies like sony. So i think if youre expecting that planeshift is going to become WOW caliber anytime soon then youre dreaming.
If you read additional posts after my first long post, you\'d find that I\'ve already addressed the \"WoW\" comparison. I was never comparing WoW to PS as a whole, WoW just happened to be an example I used for the sky and the forests. I never touched on depth, quests, characters, gear, stability, fun etc. Also, there\'s no reason why PS devs can\'t archieve the same quality (if we\'re going to go there), it would just take a LOT longer. ;)
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Interesting post!
About the day Sky, based in the ocurrence of rain, we can asume the fact that clouds did exist, and with the brillant cristal\'s glow in the pseudo-day, the sky maybe can be at least similar with our\'s hearth sky (ofcourse, the real sky get the current blue coloration because the huge wather mass reflected by the atmosphere, so the sky maybe can show other color in PS).
In the other hand, the pseudo-night sky can have fake stars, and even fake constelations, an ilusion created for miriads of cristal formations protruding in the giant cave\'s ceiling and walls, so wen the cristal barely irradiate light (in the pseudo-nigth period) this formations glow like stars in the sky.
My 2 cents.
Sorry my bad english.
Salu2.
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Originally posted by Aldaron
In the other hand, the pseudo-night sky can have fake stars, and even fake constelations, an ilusion created for miriads of cristal formations protruding in the giant cave\'s ceiling and walls, so wen the cristal barely irradiate light (in the pseudo-nigth period) this formations glow like stars in the sky.
That\'s an interessting idea, I never thought about that...
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hmm moogie, i though the levels were like this
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i though hydlaa was at the bottom of the 7th level, and that the whole stalactite was miles underneath the surface.
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Originally posted by Bnm85
Originally posted by Zan
Originally posted by Zan
Of course the quality of the sky\'s graphics aren\'t extremely well yet and neither is the lighting but that will improve after more important issues are behind us.
In which direction will they improve? Even when I feel certain modifications will make the sky look much better, I fear it may still project that feeling of claustrophobia. It almost seems like the whole game was designed to be claustrophobic, starting from being underground, in a limited space. Besides, I\'m commenting on how it is now and nowhere was it specifically said by the devs that the sky will look vastly different. But I do hope for the best ;)
Well don\'t forget that we ARE in a cave. We don\'t want to ruin the experience of being in the cave. Except that the graphics can be better I like the feeling just fine right now.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
Well don\'t forget that we ARE in a cave. We don\'t want to ruin the experience of being in the cave. Except that the graphics can be better I like the feeling just fine right now.
Trust me, with the current reminders, it\'s impossible to \"forget\". :P
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in a way with all the plants processing photosynthesis it is not always possible to imagine a cave around.
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Originally posted by lethe
in a way with all the plants processing photosynthesis it is not always possible to imagine a cave around.
The crystal lets through the needed energies to allow this to happen. It\'s magical remember?
Greetings,
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o no, my post messed up.
One of the things that makes a game interesting for me is a sense of something unknown happening or lurking around. That something may not be right or is worth being cautious about. For example, you\'re walking down an abandoned path with your party, and finaly come to an old church of some sort. It has an old cemetery outside as well. An eerie music plays on the background. And everything about the place just feels off, so you start investigating... My oh my, that would keep me glued to my computer all night.
thats exactly whats missing in this game! but i think thats only possible with a huge world with monsters that drop things, or else people will just stick to their rats....
now for the messed post, i thought the stalactite was miles underneat the surface, what was also been said in the players guide.
i thought the levels were like cubic, not overlapping eachother.
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Things that do give me a sense of mystery a little are questions like:
- What is Black Flame, really? Is it truely a part of Laanx or not? What abilities or bonuses will it give in the future if you pick it for your \"religion\"?
- What creatures exactly are Diaboli already familiar with in the Stone Labyrinths and why?
- Will the lost homelands of various races ever be found again?
- Will we get to visit every race\'s homeland, whether it\'s lost or not?
- What\'s Laanx\' current agenda? Has she finally settled down after attemps at controlling as many races as s/he can?
- What\'s happening to the surface? Does it support life?
- Of course, Stone Labyrinths are supposedly still holding a lot of mystery, so let\'s hope there\'s something interesting in them.
One thing I do hope is that despite the word \"labyrinths\", it won\'t feel like a maze. I absolutely despise mazes in any game. It\'s annoying and frustrating, it doesn\'t add any enjoyment to a game at all, it\'s a cop-out to increase a game\'s length instead of using creativity and enhancing a story, IMO. Whatever labyrinths will be there, I hope there\'ll be enough of markers or some sort to be able to easily identify where you are. Just IMO. :)
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by lethe
in a way with all the plants processing photosynthesis it is not always possible to imagine a cave around.
The crystal lets through the needed energies to allow this to happen. It\'s magical remember?
Greetings,
Screw magic we want a massive dark cave! Let the revolution begin! Follow me! We will destory it! *leads the angry mob towards the crystal*