PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Bnm85 on July 18, 2005, 04:04:50 am
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I would like to strongly suggest wings for the Diaboli. Something like this maybe:
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/4417/characterwhirlingdeath032cx.jpg
Or at the very least, maybe a cross between Diaboli and Klyros (should make wing and anti-wing people happy). Here are some reasons and suggestions:
- Diaboli are obviously modeled after diablo/demons or hell angels. And those almost always have wings.
- There should be more than a single race with wings, so if people choose it for that purpose alone, they won\'t all be Klyros.
- I would like to play a non-all-goody race with wings but also with a humanoid looking face (not a huge fan of animal faces on humanoid bodies).
- Klyros sound cool with being able to fly and swim but no humanoid-looking faces. Plus, they already have a ton of other advantages over other races, and their average stats are still trainable to the max, even if it takes longer. They\'re not really an evil race. Plus, it would be boring to see everyone else be a Klyros just because of being able to fly/glide (and swim).
- Diaboli already have a huge disadvantage against blessed weapons and special magical items. Will there be anything to counter or deal double-damage on others? With extra difficulties, there have to be rewards that make it worth playing a more difficult race.
- Diaboli\'s Intelligence could also be better, since they seem to be geared for a ranged combat and some form of magic (because of blessed weapons, unless they\'ll have their own unholy weapons that deal double-damage against others).
Thanks. :)
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Saddly posted by Bnm85
http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/4417/...gdeath032cx.jpg
Errrr...Your kidding...right?
Well anyway, I dont think that wings would be practical, given the history of the race on the site.
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thats a nice pic of wings. did you do that yourself?
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Indeed, the races and their descriptions are rather set in stone. They\'re the children of the Dev Gods ;)
Interesting reasons, but this is one suggestion that is impossible to accomodate.
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Originally posted by Frank
thats a nice pic of wings. did you do that yourself?
The pic in my opinion, looks like its from a really bad version of morrowind :/
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Originally posted by Frank
thats a nice pic of wings. did you do that yourself?
Oh, no, I wish. :) It\'s a character from Neverwinter Nights. It\'s a bit blocky but I liked its wings. ;)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Indeed, the races and their descriptions are rather set in stone. They\'re the children of the Dev Gods ;)
Interesting reasons, but this is one suggestion that is impossible to accomodate.
All right, no problem. But what about an additional race, such as a cross between Diaboli and Klyros? Or has it been stated that there will be no more additional races? If not, oh well. :)
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The no-additional-races (http://www.planeshift.it/community_faq.html#npcraces) statement is found within the FAQ on the main site ;)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
The no-additional-races (http://www.planeshift.it/community_faq.html#npcraces) statement is found within the FAQ on the main site ;)
Well, who reads FAQs anyway! :P Besides, I defy them! :D Anyway, that\'s a bummer... Now I\'m trying to decide between Diaboli and Klyros... How about a humanoid face option for Klyros then? ;)
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*grins* Through the powers of player-skinning! Wooo! Though their facial structures differ greatly, and then if you add an option for one anatomical difference, you come to a slippery slope with everything else.
We\'ll just have to deal with what we\'re offered :) Le sigh.
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Damnit, I refuse to look like a reptile or a fish! :P The only saving grace then seems that the races other than Klyros can still fly with the use of Pterosaurs and Megaras (and probably faster too). Though it seems that will only be affordable at either high levels or with quite a bit of money.
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Keep in mind that the Klyros will never fully fly. They will only glide a certain distance, and only down - meaning they\'ll have to be up a certain amount to do it successfully. So there aren\'t too many benefits at all.
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Hmm, I\'ve been reading through several posts concerning Klyros before posting this thread and have found discussions about limited but high jumps for Klyros. Yes, I\'m aware they can\'t fully fly but rather glide. But what about the jumps (upwards) that are higher than any other character? If they can\'t do that, then it\'s a bit more comforting. :)
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I lack information on that specific, but it wouldn\'t really make sense to have greater jumping height because of wings. If anything, their weight would initially pull you down more. I can\'t think of a single, anatomically correct winged creature (that exists outside of PlaneShift, of course) that jumps higher because of its wing appendages. So if the Klyros will jump higher, I\'m going to protest as well :P
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Well, unless I misunderstood, I think the idea came from (and I don\'t necessarily support it) a Klyros flapping its wings, as it jumps, to gain extra height. It may have been just someone\'s theory, doesn\'t mean that the devs agree.
Ok, I found one of the posts here:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=14621&boardid=13&sid=6413802f7e97bfb186dab3d1dc53710a
And Xordan\'s quote from it:
\"...but I see klyros as being able to fly quite high if they arn\'t carrying anything. Now you won\'t be able to really travel using this, unless you practised flying to perfection (would take a long time to do), but it will be useful for going up cliffs where other races would have to climb.\"
So, unless he meant something else by \"flying high\" and \"going up cliffs\"...
Anyway, I\'m sure it was just one peron\'s view, and not set in stone. :)
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I personally thought Klyros wouldn\'t fly due to the desciption about them in the player guide which states that the wings don\'t seem to be functional. Sure, Klyro\'s would be able to glide short distances, but flying from a stand still position or flapping the wings in mid air shouldn\'t be possible.
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Hopefully, it\'s not or it will be a huge advantage. :) However, with all the talk of them gliding instead of flying, this is a quote from their description:
\"implemented in future releases: Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.\"
Unless that\'s what gliding means in their view.
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I take that as a glide...personally, with the Klyros being as big as they are and able to handle stuff like swords, I doubt that their bone structure is light enough to be carried by their wings at their current size.
But hey, we live under a crystal in a huge stalactite. Anythings possible ;)
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Originally posted by Bnm85 Hopefully, it\'s not or it will be a huge advantage. :) However, with all the talk of them gliding instead of flying, this is a quote from their description: \"implemented in future releases: Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.\" Unless that\'s what gliding means in their view.
Meh. might mean anything. but as you said, you could buy yourself a pterosaur. And that qoute pointed something else out. They cant wear heavy armor. So that might have locked your decision, if you were planning on wearing the stuff.
EDIT: *wipes a tear* I love your sig Karyuu. Made me laugh this whole thread.
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You want to fly with other char than the Klyros right?
There\'s a \"Fly\" Glyph if you check your art folder :P Maybe it makes you grow wings and fly! :D
I still want my feline abilities!!!
Oh and... you never know a new race may come up from a portal!!! :D
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Originally posted by Talamir
And that qoute pointed something else out. They cant wear heavy armor. So that might have locked your decision, if you were planning on wearing the stuff.
Well, I\'m not quite sure yet whether that would be a huge disadvantage or not. From playing other MMORPGs, it\'s not always a big minus when you have something else to compensate with (ie spells). So, who knows...
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Originally posted by Lordbug
You want to fly with other char than the Klyros right?
There\'s a \"Fly\" Glyph if you check your art folder :P Maybe it makes you grow wings and fly! :D
I still want my feline abilities!!!
Oh and... you never know a new race may come up from a portal!!! :D
Hehe, well, whether it\'s fly or glide, depending on what Klyros will turn out like. And where did you get the idea about a new race from a portal? :)
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New race from a portal. PS history. All races except the kran and lemur came through a portal. Krans and lemurs were made by laanx and talad.
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Well, 1st, the Diaboli are maybe a bit like demons, but certainly not intended to be an exact copy.
2nd,
From Diaboli description
Starting stats: STR 40, END 40, AGI 58, INT 48, WIL 68, CHA 96
Nightvision. Bonus saving throw vs. elemental spells. Suffer double damage from blessed weapons and blessed magical items.
From Klyros description
Starting stats: STR 55, END 55, AGI 55, INT 55, WIL 65, CHA 65
Nightvision. Fly for short time. Breath underwater. Due to they nature they can\'t wear any kind of Heavy Armor.
As we can see, the stats add up to the exact same figure, which is 350 for all races. Don\'t miss / underestimate the high CHA. This will surely have a big effect on NPCs, as it has in other PC-RPGs.
As you can see, you get the double damage for diaboil but compensation in the extra saving throw vs. elelental spells which will be the most common types, like freeze and flame burst. I\'m not sure how summon missile will fit in, though.
Klyros get to \"fly for short time\" and breath underwater in compensation for being unable to wear havy armor. Given that
1) both flight / gliding and underwater breathing (which, BTW, is also possessed by several other races) are of only limited use in most professions, and
2) the presence of both flight and swim glyphs makes this available to everyone
, this isn\'t that much of an advantage. It is quite clear to me that Klyros are comparatively unsuited for some professions, like any sort of close combat. They aren\'t terrbbly good as mages, either. That leaves crafters, merchants, scouts, explorers and maybe rogues.
As for you not liking their reptilian appearance: do you want the Enkis to have human faces, too, because they have this catlike appearance? Seriously, this is one of the things that differentiate the races from each other. They are not humans with fur or humans with wings, they are cats and lizards that walk upright and talk.
I am not going to re-hash the flight discussion again. All I\'m saying is that I think they can fly but, without serious training, only for a short time and glide a bit. Just look at the effect stamina is having on running!
Therefore, it seems to me that a lot of Klyros will not actually use their wings, but instead a fly glyph, because this requires less training for more gain. Especially if they are already using magic, it\'s just another spell which is easier to learn than a whole new skill. Thus, I think flight is over-hyped. It will (and should) take very serious effort to get it to real usefulness, thereby obviously taking away resources for training the more commonly used skills.
Add to that the effect of weight in the inventory, the weight of the light armor that is available, and it looks like a flight glyph is even more effective for almost all purposes that would make flight interesting for the broad population.
@ Bnm85: As for the portal / race thing: did you read the setting?
Edit: Also, in almost all cases, the char will eventually end up wearing heavy armor, even in the more mage-like professions. Thus, this is quite a limitation in the high area of things, whereas a mage will easily use the flight glyph. Obviously a Klyros mage can use armor spells to compensate. As usual, some races are more suited for some things than others. There is no reason to put all advantages into one race, which looks like you are trying to get the Diaboli to be.
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Originally posted by Talamir
New race from a portal. PS history. All races except the kran and lemur came through a portal. Krans and lemurs were made by laanx and talad.
No, you misunderstand. Yes, the races except Kran and Lemurs came from portals or became cross-breeds. My question was where you got that idea considering that the FAQ states there will be no more additional player races in the game.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Well, 1st, the Diaboli are maybe a bit like demons, but certainly not intended to be an exact copy.
Well, giving them wings would not make them an exact copy. That\'s what stats are for. :)
As we can see, the stats add up to the exact same figure, which is 350 for all races. Don\'t miss / underestimate the high CHA. This will surely have a big effect on NPCs, as it has in other PC-RPGs.
Not underestimating CHA at all. Also, I did not mean that the INT stat should be increased, while keeping CHA as high but rather slightly higher by default, taking a bit away from CHA (but not too much).
As you can see, you get the double damage for diaboil but compensation in the extra saving throw vs. elelental spells which will be the most common types, like freeze and flame burst. I\'m not sure how summon missile will fit in, though.
I\'m not so sure it\'s such a compensation. For example, if I\'m fighting a Diaboli in PvP, I simply won\'t set myself up as an elemental spell fighter/mage whatever. I\'ll make sure I get blessed and/or magical items to fight against them. What will a Diaboli do against Klyros with blessed/magical items/weapons/spells etc? Klyros\' light armor may not be such a huge deal if they\'re dealing double-damage on Diaboli. Just IMO. :)
the presence of both flight and swim glyphs makes this available to everyone
Yes, I\'m hoping that will be a compensation. :)
They aren\'t terrbbly good as mages, either. That leaves crafters, merchants, scouts, explorers and maybe rogues.
How so? It doesn\'t state that they have any limitations on training every skill to the max. And they\'re good in elemental ways. So, what\'s stopping them from developing everything a mage can have to the max, even if it does take longer than for some other race? I mean, in the end, it\'s archievable.
As for you not liking their reptilian appearance: do you want the Enkis to have human faces, too, because they have this catlike appearance? Seriously, this is one of the things that differentiate the races from each other. They are not humans with fur or humans with wings, they are cats and lizards that walk upright and talk.
Yes, I do. :P:D But that\'s just personal preference. I\'m all for difference appearances and such but it\'s hard for me to take a walking humanoid animal seriously in games. I\'d prefer variations in body type, facial expressions, age, height, skin color, ears (pointy and such). The whole Enki thing reminds me too much of an adult furry fantasy thing, which I never found particulary appealing. But I know that others like it, and I don\'t want to step on their toes because of it, so I have no problem with them running around. I just wouldn\'t use one for myself. :)
I am not going to re-hash the flight discussion again. All I\'m saying is that I think they can fly but, without serious training, only for a short time and glide a bit. Just look at the effect stamina is having on running!
Therefore, it seems to me that a lot of Klyros will not actually use their wings, but instead a fly glyph, because this requires less training for more gain. Especially if they are already using magic, it\'s just another spell which is easier to learn than a whole new skill. Thus, I think flight is over-hyped. It will (and should) take very serious effort to get it to real usefulness, thereby obviously taking away resources for training the more commonly used skills.
Add to that the effect of weight in the inventory, the weight of the light armor that is available, and it looks like a flight glyph is even more effective for almost all purposes that would make flight interesting for the broad population.
I feel the same way and hope it\'ll all be balanced in the end.
@ Bnm85: As for the portal / race thing: did you read the setting?
Yes but as I stated in my previous reply, you misunderstand. I meant, why is that idea still alive considering the FAQ\'s statement about no additional player races?
There is no reason to put all advantages into one race, which looks like you are trying to get the Diaboli to be.
Well, your conclusion is wrong. I was not trying to give Diaboli more advantages over other races. I wanted to see more than a single race having wings, especially because it suits Diaboli a lot. If that somehow gives them a huge advantage then that\'s what discussions are for, where a compromise can be found on what else to change to keep them in balance. At the moment though, I see Diaboli as having slightly more disadvantages than others, simply because one can make a special setup in PvP against Diaboli, since they\'re always vulnerable to blessed/magical weapons. Whereas some other races can be more unpredictable and more of a guess on how to set yourself up when fighting them. And before anyone says, \"well, now you want them to not suffer double-damage and still keep all the advantages\", no, it\'s not what I\'m saying at all. I\'m saying that because, obviously, that disadvantage is here to stay, it might be ok to add something a little extra as a counter. Such as devestating unholy weapons/spells, or some sort of blessed damage reducer.
As always, just IMO, so if you disagree, that\'s fine. :)
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Errr..double posting is a bad thing right? You evil evil man :P
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Originally posted by Robinmagus
Errr..double posting is a bad thing right? You evil evil man :P
What do you mean? Those are two seperate replies to different people. :P
EDIT to the original topic: Ok, I\'ve been doing a lot of reading of the older forums topics and different magic ways, and it seems that INT isn\'t necessarily required for all magic. It seems, for example, Crystal and Dark ways only need CHA, which means INT can be ignored completely if one sticks only to those ways. In that case, maybe current CHA for Diaboli is all right. But we will only know for sure once the magic system if finalized.
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..none of it is \'reqired\', all the stats help together, some just help more so.
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Oh, ok, so, how does STR help with Azure, Blue, Red, Brown, Crystal, and Dark ways of magic? Stats like INT, CHA, WIL are \'required\' if you want to be good at certain ways of magic. ;)
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..none of it is \'reqired\', all the stats help together, some just help more so.
The mental stat of a way is required for high realm spells.
Realm 1 spells are very weak and basicly don\'t need many requirements but avaliable mana and Skill of that way above 0 (full theoretical train when in 0)
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Originally posted by Bnm85
Originally posted by Seytra
Well, 1st, the Diaboli are maybe a bit like demons, but certainly not intended to be an exact copy.
Well, giving them wings would not make them an exact copy. That\'s what stats are for. :)
Obviously I failed to bring accross the intended meaning: I wasn\'t talking about it making them a copy of the Klyros, but a copy of the demons in terran mythology.
Originally posted by Bnm85
As you can see, you get the double damage for diaboil but compensation in the extra saving throw vs. elelental spells which will be the most common types, like freeze and flame burst. I\'m not sure how summon missile will fit in, though.
I\'m not so sure it\'s such a compensation. For example, if I\'m fighting a Diaboli in PvP, I simply won\'t set myself up as an elemental spell fighter/mage whatever. I\'ll make sure I get blessed and/or magical items to fight against them. What will a Diaboli do against Klyros with blessed/magical items/weapons/spells etc? Klyros\' light armor may not be such a huge deal if they\'re dealing double-damage on Diaboli. Just IMO. :)
I\'m so not talking about PvP. IMNSHO, PvP is no way near importance. At best, it is supplemental to roleplay. Therefore, combat will happen as PvE mostly, and thus there won\'t be anything gearing up for them specifically.
Originally posted by Bnm85
They aren\'t terrbbly good as mages, either. That leaves crafters, merchants, scouts, explorers and maybe rogues.
How so? It doesn\'t state that they have any limitations on training every skill to the max. And they\'re good in elemental ways. So, what\'s stopping them from developing everything a mage can have to the max, even if it does take longer than for some other race? I mean, in the end, it\'s archievable.
This is true, but it can easily be that there will, while not set limits, be higher learning costs, like for example in ROE. Even without, a mage of a set power will be a lot more readily attainable by use of a better suited race.
Originally posted by Bnm85
Yes, I do. :P:D But that\'s just personal preference. I\'m all for difference appearances and such but it\'s hard for me to take a walking humanoid animal seriously in games. I\'d prefer variations in body type, facial expressions, age, height, skin color, ears (pointy and such). The whole Enki thing reminds me too much of an adult furry fantasy thing, which I never found particulary appealing. But I know that others like it, and I don\'t want to step on their toes because of it, so I have no problem with them running around. I just wouldn\'t use one for myself. :)
However, we cannot have such radically different faces on one race. It\'s either all human-like, or all non-human-like. Maybe a little more to the extremes, but you don\'t get humans who look perfectly like apes IRL, too. :) Though the restrictions can be a little less strict dur to the fantasy-ish setting and maybe, just maybe, the races have higher face variation by nature than humans IRL.
However, I cannot see why there would be any problem taking non-humans seriously.
Originally posted by Bnm85
@ Bnm85: As for the portal / race thing: did you read the setting?
Yes but as I stated in my previous reply, you misunderstand. I meant, why is that idea still alive considering the FAQ\'s statement about no additional player races?
It\'s a zombie, by far not alive. :P It\'s the only concievable way any additional race might ever get into PS, provided that somehow / some day Talad will change his mind.
Originally posted by Bnm85
There is no reason to put all advantages into one race, which looks like you are trying to get the Diaboli to be.
Well, your conclusion is wrong. I was not trying to give Diaboli more advantages over other races. I wanted to see more than a single race having wings, especially because it suits Diaboli a lot.
As I said, they already are rather similar to conventional demons so making them even more similar would be bad, both due to reduced originalily and because it would immediately trigger the \"We already have demons from earth-hell, so why can\'t we have angels from earth-heaven, too?\" argument. I want neither demons nor angels in PS, they\'re incredibly stale.
Originally posted by Bnm85
At the moment though, I see Diaboli as having slightly more disadvantages than others, simply because one can make a special setup in PvP against Diaboli, since they\'re always vulnerable to blessed/magical weapons. Whereas some other races can be more unpredictable and more of a guess on how to set yourself up when fighting them. And before anyone says, \"well, now you want them to not suffer double-damage and still keep all the advantages\", no, it\'s not what I\'m saying at all. I\'m saying that because, obviously, that disadvantage is here to stay, it might be ok to add something a little extra as a counter. Such as devestating unholy weapons/spells, or some sort of blessed damage reducer.
I am perfectly sure there will be both. There surely will be unholy weapons, since there alwways are \"blessings\" of the good and the evil side. Also, there will be spells geared towards reducing effects of \"blessed\" weapons, for both sides. It\'s standard, because ont implies the other, really.
And, as I said, there is no importance to PvP, so there\'s no real problem IMO.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Obviously I failed to bring accross the intended meaning: I wasn\'t talking about it making them a copy of the Klyros, but a copy of the demons in terran mythology.
No, I know exactly what you meant. And giving them wings would not make them a copy. Take a winged demon type of race in various games and see if they behave and perform in an exact same way, or even if they look exactly the same. Stats are also what would distinguish them from your \"typical\" winged demon race. We already have Humans and Dwarfs in the game. I don\'t see you complaining about them being an \"exact copy\", which would definitely qualify. Besides, why are we still talking about wings? I think it\'s been made pretty clear that the races are staying the same as devs already made them to be. ;)
I\'m so not talking about PvP. IMNSHO, PvP is no way near importance. At best, it is supplemental to roleplay. Therefore, combat will happen as PvE mostly, and thus there won\'t be anything gearing up for them specifically.
It is important for those who do PvP. Otherwise, it would not have been included in this game at all. Besides, even if we\'re not talking about PvP, coming against holy mobs of some sort would guarantee a double-damage against Diaboli, while many other races can change their setup around to compensate, IMO.
This is true, but it can easily be that there will, while not set limits, be higher learning costs, like for example in ROE. Even without, a mage of a set power will be a lot more readily attainable by use of a better suited race.
Yes but the point is \"impossible vs archievable\". Although after reading many older posts, some people suggested that Klyros don\'t have bonuses in elemental ways in a magic sense but rather they\'re good in those environments. Meaning that it simply shows that they can walk, swim, and \"fly\" (glide). Still, they don\'t have any disadvantages in them either when it comes to magic.
However, we cannot have such radically different faces on one race. It\'s either all human-like, or all non-human-like. Maybe a little more to the extremes, but you don\'t get humans who look perfectly like apes IRL, too. :) Though the restrictions can be a little less strict dur to the fantasy-ish setting and maybe, just maybe, the races have higher face variation by nature than humans IRL.However, I cannot see why there would be any problem taking non-humans seriously.
To clarify, I\'d rather they didn\'t look like cats at all. I\'d rather it was more of a humanoid race but with the same or similar stats as Enkis. But to set the differences, I\'d rather see big variations in height, age, size, skin color, facial expressions, hair styles etc. As for taking them seriously, it\'s like talking to a real cat. Just my personal preference. I realize that some people have no problem with it. However, even in a lot of fan art drawings, you see people draw Enkis more like humans - longer hair for females, lipstick, highlights, more human female like bodies etc. Perhaps it will change in the future where you can select such an appearance for Enkis, since right now their faces simply look like real cats. Still, even with the variations, they\'re not terribly appealing to me. Same with Klyros.
It\'s a zombie, by far not alive. :P It\'s the only concievable way any additional race might ever get into PS, provided that somehow / some day Talad will change his mind.
Well, by the same token, Kran might start wearing pink bikinis, if Talad changes his mind. :P There\'s very little hope, basically, considering it\'s actually been addressed in the FAQ. Also, new races can be created by mixing two or more of the existing races.
As I said, they already are rather similar to conventional demons so making them even more similar would be bad, both due to reduced originalily and because it would immediately trigger the \"We already have demons from earth-hell, so why can\'t we have angels from earth-heaven, too?\" argument. I want neither demons nor angels in PS, they\'re incredibly stale.
And having typical humans is not conventional? How many MMORPGs have a human race? How many have a red demon like race with wings that is actually a playable race? So what if someone asks for angels? A dev can either include them or say no. The difference is that Diaboli are already in the game. :)
I am perfectly sure there will be both. There surely will be unholy weapons, since there alwways are \"blessings\" of the good and the evil side. Also, there will be spells geared towards reducing effects of \"blessed\" weapons, for both sides. It\'s standard, because ont implies the other, really.
And, as I said, there is no importance to PvP, so there\'s no real problem IMO.
I wouldn\'t be so sure about \"standards\" in this game, since it\'s supposedly trying to move away from them. But we will see. Also, PvP may not be important to you personally but it may be important to those who like it. It may not be a priority initially but eventually it\'s unavoidable. Don\'t think that everyone has the same interests as you. ;)
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To clarify, I\'d rather they didn\'t look like cats at all. I\'d rather it was more of a humanoid race but with the same or similar stats as Enkis. But to set the differences, I\'d rather see big variations in height, age, size, skin color, facial expressions, hair styles etc. As for taking them seriously, it\'s like talking to a real cat. Just my personal preference. I realize that some people have no problem with it. However, even in a lot of fan art drawings, you see people draw Enkis more like humans - longer hair for females, lipstick, highlights, more human female like bodies etc. Perhaps it will change in the future where you can select such an appearance for Enkis, since right now their faces simply look like real cats. Still, even with the variations, they\'re not terribly appealing to me. Same with Klyros.
Shapist! :evil: Shapist! ;)
Well, I like cats as they are IRL and I do like Enkis in PS.
And although IRL talking to things that officially do not exist or that are unlikely to be intelligent enough to understand is frowned upon we shouldn\'t limit ourselves in PS. And Enkis in PS are intelligent.
:))
P.S. we already do that anyway when trying to talk to NPCs :D
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Originally posted by Bnm85
However, even in a lot of fan art drawings, you see people draw Enkis more like humans - longer hair for females, lipstick, highlights, more human female like bodies etc. Perhaps it will change in the future where you can select such an appearance for Enkis, since right now their faces simply look like real cats.
It won\'t change, actually. This has been stated by Acraig :) We can pout and wish it were otherwise, but again, a final word is a final word. Artistic liberty, however, has nothing to do with how players want the Enki models to appear. Fan art pictures are drawn with weapons that will never be in PS, costumes, settings, accessories, etc. Hair length and style is just another artistic trait that is recognized as such. And frankly I have never liked the drawings that portrayed Enki females with human faces - to me, the images were \"off.\" Eh :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
The no-additional-races (http://www.planeshift.it/community_faq.html#npcraces) statement is found within the FAQ on the main site ;)
Im not sure the devs wont add others races... I think the FAQ are saying they dont want to add more races but as long as it will be possible to create another race there is a possibility... but it will be a secondary objective... so its true : the chance to see a 13th race is very very small...
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a diaboli with wings lol what an odd idea !
Its already strange to see the dermorian and the diaboli can reproduce themselves together...
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if you still want a diaboli with wings you can try a putch of Talad and acraig ... :D
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Originally posted by hramrach
Shapist! :evil: Shapist! ;)
Well, I like cats as they are IRL and I do like Enkis in PS.
And although IRL talking to things that officially do not exist or that are unlikely to be intelligent enough to understand is frowned upon we shouldn\'t limit ourselves in PS. And Enkis in PS are intelligent.
:))
P.S. we already do that anyway when trying to talk to NPCs :D
I like cats IRL too but it\'s still hard to take them seriously in game, even with humanoid bodies. Besides, PS is trying to be original with the races, is it not? Well, Enkidukai are nothing new. Just look at the \"Kerra\" race of Everquest 2:
http://everquest2.station.sony.com/en/main.vm#racesKerra
Not a huge difference, IMO. Sure, they\'re based on a different type of felines but felines nonetheless. :)
Originally posted by Karyuu
It won\'t change, actually. This has been stated by Acraig :) We can pout and wish it were otherwise, but again, a final word is a final word. Artistic liberty, however, has nothing to do with how players want the Enki models to appear. Fan art pictures are drawn with weapons that will never be in PS, costumes, settings, accessories, etc. Hair length and style is just another artistic trait that is recognized as such. And frankly I have never liked the drawings that portrayed Enki females with human faces - to me, the images were \"off.\" Eh :)
Well, I have never come across such statement. But if that is so, then it makes Enkis even less attractive to me. As for your artistic libery explanation, that didn\'t make sense to me. If anything, such freedom allows people to create their own unique vision of this race. Given the opportunity, I\'m sure everyone would make their Enkidukai char as unique as possible. I doubt, for example, that Moogie will ever look as cute in the game as on one of the drawings with long white hair/fur, pink lipstick etc. Unless the devs make a custom model/skin just for her. Also, there\'s a HUGE difference between a face and a sword when it comes to artistic liberty. ;)
Originally posted by fken
a diaboli with wings lol what an odd idea !
Its already strange to see the dermorian and the diaboli can reproduce themselves together...
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if you still want a diaboli with wings you can try a putch of Talad and acraig ...
With all the oddities in this game/world already, I\'d say this would qualify as the least of the odd things. :) Anyway, as I already said, it seems unlikely that the devs will change it, so I won\'t persue that suggestion.
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Well, if you take Moogie as an example she is very cat-like on the drawings, at least on the ones I saw. Though she does have something like long hair or mane. But I do not like how hair looks in PS so it is only good Enki do not have it :)
Anyway that\'s not the point. Although different poeple may have different ideas how Enki could look there must be one model in the game. And it should be more cat-like rather than less as it gives you the choive to play a differently looing character. If they were just people with a different name they could as well not exist at all.
I do not understand how you cannot take Enki seriously. Do you mean you cannot take seriously any being that does not have a human face?
For one, if ETs landed in front of you, you would not take them seriously if they did not have human faces?
(you know, the fact we are here pretty much proves there can be ETs, and it is not yet proven that it is impossible or at least very unlikely to meet them, and there is no reason they should look like we do)
And you know that Enki are played by humans, just like any other character. You can even look at them as humans wearing a mask if you wish. Though IRL wearing a mask would be considered silly (or takling to cats, or thinking that cats talk to you), does that mean you cannot ever take seroisly anybody wearing a mask, even in a fantasy game?
I just do not get this. It sounds crazy ..err.. normal..
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Originally posted by hramrach
Well, if you take Moogie as an example she is very cat-like on the drawings, at least on the ones I saw. Though she does have something like long hair or mane. But I do not like how hair looks in PS so it is only good Enki do not have it :)
Just because the \"hair\" currently doesn\'t look great in PS, doesn\'t mean it can\'t. ;) I surely hope that in time all the player models will be redone because right now they leave quite a lot to be desired.
Anyway that\'s not the point. Although different poeple may have different ideas how Enki could look there must be one model in the game. And it should be more cat-like rather than less as it gives you the choive to play a differently looing character. If they were just people with a different name they could as well not exist at all.
It doesn\'t have to look like a cat to look different. Besides, those who pick Enki model will still look like every other Enki, so a lot of variation (including hair) is the answer to looking relatively unique.
I do not understand how you cannot take Enki seriously. Do you mean you cannot take seriously any being that does not have a human face?
No, I mean I cannot take a being that looks like a cat in real life seriously. Cats aren\'t some imagined creatures (or ETs), they do exist. And unless you got serious mental problems, you won\'t exactly be having a serious conversation with a cat IRL, lol. The exception being, \"Who\'s a pretty cat, who\'s a pretty cat!\" *pet pet* :D
For one, if ETs landed in front of you, you would not take them seriously if they did not have human faces?
(you know, the fact we are here pretty much proves there can be ETs, and it is not yet proven that it is impossible or at least very unlikely to meet them, and there is no reason they should look like we do)
LoL, if ETs landed in front of me, taking them seriously and holding a conversation would be the last thing on my mind. :D But if it eventually came to it, and by some amazing coincidence they\'d happen to look like Enkis, I might take them seriously. The point is that we already have cats in reality, so psychologically a human mind associates anything cat-like with cats, as opposed to a billion of \"what ifs\" on what aliens might look like. For all I know they could look like nothing we\'ve ever seen before or just like us.
And you know that Enki are played by humans, just like any other character. You can even look at them as humans wearing a mask if you wish. Though IRL wearing a mask would be considered silly (or takling to cats, or thinking that cats talk to you), does that mean you cannot ever take seroisly anybody wearing a mask, even in a fantasy game?
It\'s not exactly a \"mask\". They\'re represented as a race in the game. So, if I am to roleplay, they\'re supposed to be viewed as a race and not \"masked people\", are they not? Otherwise, if I always have to remind myself that they\'re \"not really cats\", it\'s not exactly roleplaying, is it? Just IMO. :)
I just do not get this. It sounds crazy ..err.. normal..
And talking to cats seriously isn\'t crazy? lol
Anyway, I found this thread with similar requests for human-like hair for Enkis, and posters like Moogie, Cyl, Dragonfire999 and several others want it. Take a look at it here to see my point better:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=16420&boardid=13&sid=8bc0c24750c8dfa6fbe02d1c35d94340
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Enkidukai will never have human-like hair, according to Talad. It remains to be seen whether we\'ll have tufts or manes or anything like that to fill the void of baldness. :/
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Originally posted by Bnm85
And you know that Enki are played by humans, just like any other character. You can even look at them as humans wearing a mask if you wish. Though IRL wearing a mask would be considered silly (or takling to cats, or thinking that cats talk to you), does that mean you cannot ever take seroisly anybody wearing a mask, even in a fantasy game?
It\'s not exactly a \"mask\". They\'re represented as a race in the game. So, if I am to roleplay, they\'re supposed to be viewed as a race and not \"masked people\", are they not? Otherwise, if I always have to remind myself that they\'re \"not really cats\", it\'s not exactly roleplaying, is it? Just IMO. :)
Sure, but they aren\'t cats either. The fact they look similar to how cats look IRL does not mean they are cats. And even if they looked exactly like cats why they can\'t be intelligent in PS?
That\'s a fantasy game. Intelligent and talking cats are possible. You could learn a spell that turns you into something that looks just like a normal cat. Or whatever else. Yliakum is a different place than Earth.
And after all people also look similar to apes. That does not mean you think of them as apes, does it?
Edit: as for roleplaying: if you do not take Enkis seroiusly it is also not a good roleplaying in a world where Enkis do exist. Unless you want to play a lunatic/shapist/racist character.
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Originally posted by hramrach
Sure, but they aren\'t cats either. The fact they look similar to how cats look IRL does not mean they are cats. And even if they looked exactly like cats why they can\'t be intelligent in PS?
That\'s a fantasy game. Intelligent and talking cats are possible. You could learn a spell that turns you into something that looks just like a normal cat. Or whatever else. Yliakum is a different place than Earth.
And after all people also look similar to apes. That does not mean you think of them as apes, does it?
People don\'t look that similar to apes. People are also capable of holding an intelligent conversation about various topics, such as art or politics. Cats are not. Besides, there\'s a difference between looking similar to something and having an exact cat\'s head \"glued\" to a modified cat\'s body. Being a fantasy, does not mean that cats are part of everyone\'s fantasy. Speaking of fantasy, a human-like hair shouldn\'t be classified as \"odd\". After all, it\'s a fantasy, right? ;)
As far as a spell that turns you into a cat goes, that\'s completely different. That\'s actually cool and I would like that. If you study ancient history, you\'ll find that many warriors liked to depict various animals on their armor and clothing. Many of those were felines, such as leopards, lions, panthers, tigers and so on. Now, imagine that if you had a power to permanently turn those warriors into an Enki-like race. Do you think they\'d wholeheartedly agree? What would happen when they came home to make love to their wives? Ewww... I don\'t think that would fly very well. On the other hand, if you told them you could make them temporary turn into felines just for the battle and back into humans when it was over, I\'m sure they would be extremely excited. Point is - just because animals are often represented as powerful warriors in human fantasy, doesn\'t mean that people would permanently like to become such creatures. Turning into them for a limited time, on the other hand, would be extremely cool. :)
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I realy dont like the idea for deiboli to have wings. i mean the lizard thing has wings and it just seems it could be over doing it.
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But I do not understand what is the difference between turning a warrior into feline creature temporarily, permanently, or being one from the very birth - viewing it from the point of being able to talk to them and expect sensible reaction.
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Originally posted by wolfrunner
I realy dont like the idea for deiboli to have wings. i mean the lizard thing has wings and it just seems it could be over doing it.
I really do like the idea. But if you actually read the following replies, the issue has been closed by me and others in agreement that it doesn\'t matter what we want, since devs have a clear position on not modifying or adding any additional races. If Enkis can\'t even get a simple head hair, you can forget about the wings for Diaboli. :)
Originally posted by hramrach
But I do not understand what is the difference between turning a warrior into feline creature temporarily, permanently, or being one from the very birth - viewing it from the point of being able to talk to them and expect sensible reaction.
To me it\'s the difference between a human (or human-ish) being with extremely cool ability to turn into various forms and a bipedal cat, with the latter being taken less seriously because it has a strong resemblance to a real cat or as someone put it in another thread - a house cat. Rather than convincing me that it\'s an evolved cat-people race, it simply feels like a regular feline walking on two legs. Even the concept art drawing on the official Races page shows Enkidukai\'s legs more like human legs, and yet in the game they\'re just like real cat\'s. Even those fan art drawings that show long claws on Enki\'s feet, still draw their feet more human-like than cat-like. You\'ll notice that I\'ve used \"IMO\" quite a few times in my replies regarding this, so the fact that you disagree is perfectly fine. We don\'t have to convince one another. Knowing devs\' position on the races, it would probably be a waste of time to try anyway. ;)