PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Talad on July 28, 2005, 12:57:19 pm
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[Taken from main web site]
Hi Planeshifters,
we worked hard in the past month to provide an update to the current PS release. The update will be ready in the next few days, and while you?re waiting we?ll give you a little insight into what it contains.
The most interesting feature introduced is a new module for treasure generation. Until today all monsters had scripted loot, so you basically get a named set of items from them, with a random probability for each item to appear. The new system has a more powerful loot generator that can create thousands of different items, each with its own unique bonuses and maluses. The system is not yet complete, more controls on the generation are needed to avoid spawning too powerful items on low level monsters. This means that in the first run, you will get quite powerful items. Those will most probably be removed with a wipe of objects a few weeks after the first, when all controls will be present.
We fine tuned the progression rules, so your characters will evolve in a more consistent way. This change really requires that we proceed with the famous WIPE of characters, so everyone will start from the beginning with the new rules. We are aware that a wipe is not a popular action, but you should consider that PS is still in tech demo stages, so we have to reset characters when the updates requires it. We will restart from the MB->CB migration, so everyone that had an MB character can still migrate it to the new database with the same procedure used last time. More details on this when the update is ready.
A less visible feature, is the new quest system, that has been re-engineered server side, allowing us to define quests better and more easily. Until today, the number of quests was not great, due to the complexity in creating new ones. The new system will speed up the addition of new quests, simplifying the work of our setting team, with the result of more quests in game. Client side nothing changes, so you will interact with NPCs in the same way as today.
There are no level changes in this update.
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A bit of clarification. There will probably be two wipes. The first big wipe will occur at the same time as the update. Everything will be wiped then (characters, items, everything).
In a few weeks (i.e. the traditional PlaneShift \'soon\' :-) there will \'probably\' be another smaller wipe where all items will be removed. This is only needed if the generated items turn out to be too powerful and we need balancing there.
Greetings,
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Regarding the second wipe: do you mean only the items which can be looted from the new system (probably thanks to a flag?), or everyone of them, including those we can get in a \'legit\' way, for instance by buying them or the famous inherited Ring of the past?
I see a little inconsistency compared to the migration step. Now, as you say, it\'s a tech demo stage.
In any case, we\'re surely looking forward to the dreadful database wipe, and even more to the new features!
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Originally posted by CadRipper
Regarding the second wipe: do you mean only the items which can be looted from the new system (probably thanks to a flag?), or everyone of them, including those we can get in a \'legit\' way, for instance by buying them or the famous inherited Ring of the past?
I think that it will be all items except for the trias you get after migration and the ring of the past. We can\'t otherwise recognize those generated objects.
Greetings,
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Better to increase our Appraise skill as much as possible and sell back everything just before this second wipe, then ;)
*nods* I suppose it makes sense to tweak and run the migration script again for the items only (i.e. not the skills) on the existing characters. If their names haven\'t changed.
Thanks for the information.
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Awesome, just got the email an hour ago...best news for months :D
I dont care if my chars are going to be wiped, just make us start off with a weapon other then our hands!
Thanks Devs, keep it up
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Heh, after two months of not playing expecting the wipe, I come back this week and start levelling up...
Oh well, regardless, its very good news. Onwards!
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Originally posted by jorrit
I think that it will be all items except for the trias you get after migration and the ring of the past. We can\'t otherwise recognize those generated objects.
Greetings,
Oh, great, can I actually *get* my trias and the ring this time?!?
Last time, I was left with completely nothing (no points, no trias, no ring, etc.) after a \"successful\" migration from MB. :(
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So finally the curios planeshifters get to know when the wipe is, no more \"Wipe? When?\" threads. :)
Wipe brings with it the joys of update and sorrows of starting from all over. I hope it doesn\'t happen again.
And the re-engineered progression system will ensure that we can level up in fun and have less progression points than before.
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It\'s good to hear that the mighty wipe, is coming.
That way we\'ll see if, after it, things change or remain the same.
I\'ll welcome the chat scrolling bug fix.
The new additions are expected to for further analysis.
Indeed there has been lots of activity in the cvs lately, that\'s good to see.
But now, there\'s a thing that worries me. Lots of people are complaining, having difficulties during the char creation process, some of them even with their accounts to be activated.
After that wipe, a huge amount of new char creations and registrations are submited, I\'d like to know if the process has been rechecked or fixed in some way, because at that point it can be crucial.
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That is a good point, we will have to do something there to make sure that is corrected. I cannot always be hand-activating accounts.
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So the wipe will be in a few days, at most weeks. Fine with me, though I fear there will be a lot more powerlevelling and spawn camping than ever before.
Anyway, the most crucial thing is that everything that deals with chars and items is working properly. As has been pointed out, some people have trouble creating chars or activating accounts. While this is something that may cause hassle, there is something else that I see as way more problematic: the char creation itself.
Since there won\'t be another char wipe, everyone will be stuck with what they get after that one. Since I know from personal experience, albeit several months back, that the char creation has several major problems, it must be assured that these are corrected by now.
I\'m specifically referring to
1) the buggy CP calculation: options that are added and then removed did not give back the CP in all cases, which means that you can easily lose a lot of CP.
I have seen recently generated chars that seem to be affected by that: The description had the same events several times in them, leading to the conclusion that, while the event is seemingly removed from the list of selected ones, it is in fact not, and only removed from the clientside visible list. This affects things like \"siblings\" as well as the events and such.
2) the incorrectly computed CP on each page, that can leave you with -11 CP on one page and with +50 CP on another.
3) the paths that basically waste all your CP and give you nothing
Neither of these have been fixed yet AFAIK, which is why I am very surprised to see the wipe come already.
Furthermore, if the item wipe will erase all items, it must also restore the money to whatever one had after the creation, and also the stats, because otherwise people will simply convert all items into money and train it away to store it. This means that the state a char is in right after the creation must be stored so that it can be copied back without requiring another char creation. However, this means that all problems and issues created by the unsuccessfull / buggy char creations will have to be corrected twice.
Seriously, I feel that the big wipe is not justified just yet. In fact, I\'m nearly certain that another big wipe will be required if it is done now, and a lot of GM action will be required to correct for bugs in both char creation as well as ingame.
Well, at least that will give GMs a justification to exist, since enforcement of the naming rules have been removed, which was the worst move in PS yet. The wipe would be a very good point to correct this mistake, and also for all oldbies and GMs who don\'t have suitable names yet. If we fail to wipe this hypocrisy, then we may just as well allow cheating.
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I hope there will be a healthy supply of rats, especially in the first few weeks. You know everyone is going to go after them to build up their skills. Lately the rat population has seemed to thin a bit. You think there are a lot of people camped around rat spawns now?
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The Wipe!
Well, they told us it would happen, gave us ample if not obscure (i.e. \"soon\" ) warning.
Hmmm. Overall, it is a very good event to be happening, but it is honestly a shock it\'s happening now, not after this new client has been tested and made sure that character creation works. I hope it does.
My biggest concern is the mac client development lag (as well as linux for that matter), as it takes a couple weeks to rebuild it for those systems. Is it not possible to release the new client to Daniel Fryer and (sorry, whomever the linux main dev is) a few weeks before the server is updated so they can have it mostly ready by that time? Is there not (or is it not possible to have) a second test server for devs to test new clients on that they could have access to?
Hmm, once again, being a Mac user has caused me to lose out for a while.
On a much lighter note, this really is great news devs, well done, thank you so much for all your hard and excellent work!
Xirius
/me heads over to the mac client thread to bother dfryer and ChaOs
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first of all, i would like to thank you for the steady development of this great game.
Originally posted by provisionist1
My biggest concern is the mac client development lag (as well as linux for that matter), as it takes a couple weeks to rebuild it for those systems. Is it not possible to release the new client to Daniel Fryer and (sorry, whomever the linux main dev is) a few weeks before the server is updated so they can have it mostly ready by that time? Is there not (or is it not possible to have) a second test server for devs to test new clients on that they could have access to?
i am new to the game and was hoping that mac/lin/win-development are synced, so noone has to wait.
well, how shall i cure my PS-addiction now?! ;)
of course it is great that the game is open-source and runs on other platforms than m$ at all, but once again, it shows that gaming under linux is still a bit misstreated :(
please don\'t start a flame on this, as it is not ment to be provocating anyone.
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actually you can build the linux client yourself and not have to wait for the binary to come out. I think it\'s also possible on the mac, but probably much harder. For linux, check the build guides at laanx.fragnetics.com, and make sure you follow the instructions to the letter. (and no sense doing it now, wait until they update the build guide with a new CVS date)
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The wipe is coming!!! Finally... I heard people saying it wouldn\'t happen until December. But the random item generation makes me wonder, what types of items will be randomly generated? Monster parts? Weapons? Crafting materials?
And yes, ensure a good supply of rats and other small creatures for all of us who shall soon become newbies again.
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Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, if the item wipe will erase all items, it must also restore the money to whatever one had after the creation, and also the stats, because otherwise people will simply convert all items into money and train it away to store it. This means that the state a char is in right after the creation must be stored so that it can be copied back without requiring another char creation. However, this means that all problems and issues created by the unsuccessfull / buggy char creations will have to be corrected twice.
That\'s what Jorrit and I have been discussing earlier. There is no perfect solution to this problem unless if the character names are not changed. So either our inventories are reset and we lose a few items, which is really not a big issue, or they try to apply a partial migration step but that sounds a bit doubtful to me.
The best would be a set of flags to mark object as looted, handcrafted and so on, but I\'m sure this is part of the long-term planning.
Originally posted by Seytra
Seriously, I feel that the big wipe is not justified just yet. In fact, I\'m nearly certain that another big wipe will be required if it is done now, and a lot of GM action will be required to correct for bugs in both char creation as well as ingame.
Well, at least that will give GMs a justification to exist, since enforcement of the naming rules have been removed, which was the worst move in PS yet. The wipe would be a very good point to correct this mistake, and also for all oldbies and GMs who don\'t have suitable names yet. If we fail to wipe this hypocrisy, then we may just as well allow cheating.
GMs don\'t have the power to touch others\' statistics and inventories whatsoever. Please don\'t hassle them with that ;)
What was the worst move, enforcing RP names, or relaxing this rule? I fail to see your argument with the oldbie names.
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Finally!!! some news on the update that ive been checking the webpage constantly for over the last few weeks!
Anyway i dont understand these randomly generated items. Do you mean weapons with random stats or what? I dont understand.
Also THANK YOU SO MUCH for the wipe and the update, being an artistically minded person, however, i look forward more to the level changes and new visual changes, but for the average player this update sounds great.
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[SIZE=8]~YAY!~[/SIZE]
:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
A few comments though...:
1) I have to agree with Seytra 90% on this one. The character creation problems need to be fixed. They\'ll just cause more problems if they aren\'t. Though, with a double wipe scenario, theoretically they could fix it for the second (permanent) wipe.
2) MB migration... Many a MBer has said they received a psychotic amount of money in the migration. (I tried PS back in AB, then MB, but didn\'t have a decent enough computer till CB came around.) If there is to be a wipe, are these people going to start rich again?
3) Please tell me the dark red potions have been fixed and/or destroyed! Not to mention the rest of the potions. They last till logout, instead of for time limits. Thus, some people can stay on indefinitely and keep the effects, and others (like me) crash too often to use them at all.
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I have one big concern after reading Seytra post.
From this what i have understod, there is one wipe coming soon ofter this update and another, items wipe planned in case of random looting system not working right.
I say, deleting only items won\'t solve the problem.
Let\'s say a player will loot over 100.000 tria in 1 hour because of a bug. He will go sell his items and start training. I don\'t know how the progression system has been changed, but with current rules, without any bug, it wouldnt last long before all those trias would be spent.
That\'s why items wipe won\'t solve problem of looting bugged amount of exensive items.
With my state of informations, I propose to merge both of those wipes into one which would happen then when the items wipe would be expected to happen.
As for random looting feature.
I think it will be like there will be defined types of items for each killable NPC and some system will decide how many of those items and which will be available to loot from killed NPC.
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
I propose to merge both of those wipes into one which would happen then when the items wipe would be expected to happen.
The first wipe is necessary to enact the updates. The second is necessary to correct the flaws in the updates. Both will be needed for their plan.
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You\'re perfectly right, Nikodemus. We have to assume those looted items won\'t be accepted by the NPCs.
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Im excited. Ahh, finally doomsday is here!! This is going to be great.
(Sorry to excited to post anything helpful :D )
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Originally posted by CadRipper
You\'re perfectly right, Nikodemus. We have to assume those looted items won\'t be accepted by the NPCs.
If we assume that we can\'t sell looted items, then there is almost no point in killing NPC\'s. And the only source of income for training skills is mining. That wouldn\'t make people happy =D
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*pouncehugs Talad*
THANK YOU!
I have been waiting for a new update for so long =(
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So do we retransfer before or after? ?(
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wish it\'d take the last feww weeks away aswell
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PLEASE LET US KEEP OUR MUGS!!!!!!!!!!
(I got 2 mugs from people who where in MB and I want to keep them)
Anyway, I cant wait til the update. It seems awesome. I am also wondering what kind of new item drops there are?
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I can remember my account for MB but not my password...what could it have been. :(
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I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that helped. I know you guys put a lot of hard work into this and it really is appreciated among the community.
I was also extremely happy to see that people were actually GLAD about the wipe! That is truely a sign of an excellent community among players. It\'s nice to see players that accept Planeshift for what it is; a work in development and thus a tech demo. I\'ve seen games where even a 24 hour wipe due to a small bug or something would cause total chaos and where players would do nothing but whine about the wipe and other times where they would complain if an update was even a day late from the promised date.
It brings a tear to my eye to be among all your kind souls. Let\'s just hope we don\'t get slashdotted!!!
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yes all is well now, until the wipe happens and the flaming minions of trolgarth coming running into the forums opinions ablazed with no sense or standards, no abiding by rules, and chicken soup.
what im getting at is, when the big man pushes the button, the forums will turn into a battlefield of screams and annoyances. hold your breath ^^
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With regards to Balance:
Quests will never be as much fun as a player interacting with another player.
For there to be a true world-balance then, there must be a number of unbalanced Evil paths, very difficult, many puzzles to solve, but very powerful.
Without powerful Evil Players, and the ability for them to actually do something Evil, the horde of would-be heroes will have no real purpose.
No matter how many quests you add.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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Complex and Twisted are two of my favorite toys. I look forward to the day when it is possible to play with them in PS.
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Wait! Where are the Lemurs!!! You can\'t wipe PS without giving us lemurs!!! Us lemurs are being robbed of play time!!!:evil:
/me is very angry
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YYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS! i\'ve been waiting for months for the whipe!
i don\'t know why but my 2 accounts are both bugged. and the random item generator must be cooool!
i guess other people share my thoughts.
i want to go create quests!
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
If we assume that we can\'t sell looted items, then there is almost no point in killing NPC\'s. And the only source of income for training skills is mining. That wouldn\'t make people happy =D
D\'oh, err... 8o
*reads again and shakes his head* That\'s what you get when you don\'t sleep enough.
If only the new system is responsible for giving the loot away, then of course it could be awkward to, let\'s say, only be able to sell low-valued items. Simple is beautiful, how about \"let\'s just see what happens\"? :D It will surely end up in another return to the post-migration step, but it would be bad to tell that to everyone since it seems to render a whole part of the community inactive (a concept I\'ll never entirely grasp).
Originally posted by Snobaste
PLEASE LET US KEEP OUR MUGS!!!!!!!!!!
(I got 2 mugs from people who where in MB and I want to keep them)
Haha, right, the mugs. Well it happened once, and believe me you can survive - even if it\'s hard at first ;)
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/me has some questions about the new looting system
1: Will all monsters be lootable? (i mean clackers, ulbernauts...) because it is fun to kill an ulbernaut (or get killed by it :p) but it is weird that you can skin and blind a rat but you are not able to skin an ulber.
2: What items will monsters drop? It will be really fun to get swords or tef teeth from rats (unless the rats ate some tefs or players :p )
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Oh, and one more question about the progression system, will we still be able to gather tons of PP and not be able to spend them on training because of the lack of money?
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Erm, but serious.
I\'m realyl curious what went wrong with my migration from MB to CB and if the problem will repeat itself.
Who do I contact about it? I think it\'d be the best to solve it before the actual migration. If it happened to me, it\'s quite likely to happen to others too.
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Originally posted by Eolius
Oh, and one more question about the progression system, will we still be able to gather tons of PP and not be able to spend them on training because of the lack of money?
You can sell loot and get money.
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i know i can sell the loot and get money but curently i have 16828 pp and 0 trias that is a bit disbalanced i think ;)
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if you are interested in more details on development you can visit the cvs section on sf.net and read all the descriptions of changes on planeshift server and client.
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1: Will all monsters be lootable? (i mean clackers, ulbernauts...) because it is fun to kill an ulbernaut (or get killed by it :p) but it is weird that you can skin and blind a rat but you are not able to skin an ulber.
No, actually I think not being able to skin an ulber is pretty realistic. Think about it.
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Wait! Where are the Lemurs!!! You can\'t wipe PS without giving us lemurs!!! Us lemurs are being robbed of play time!!!:evil:
/me is very angry
Just re-stating my statement. :)
Lemurs stand up and fight against this injustice!
This wipe will put lemurs at a HUGE disadvatage because by the time Lemurs come out players like Eolius will have 16828 pp again.
We have been waiting patiently for 6 months for this wipe, I think we could wait a couple more weeks and let lemurs get done before we wipe ps.
I think Phinehas would agree with me. :)
And anyone else who\'s going to play a lemur for that matter.
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
No, actually I think not being able to skin an ulber is pretty realistic. Think about it.
Yeah but at least we can take they\'re ears, nails or eyes (or teeth if they have any).
Or at least we can get some weappons from them, weappons that came from the ppl killed (and perhaps eaten) by the ulber.
And killing an ulber with a sword (look at they\'re size) is preety unrealistic too ;)
I came up with the question because i think having more lootable monsters may prevent the \"10 ppl camped on a poor rat\" problem... Especialy after the whipe when everybody will be searching for ways to make some trias.
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
This wipe will put lemurs at a HUGE disadvatage because by the time Lemurs come out players like Eolius will have 16828 pp again.
LooooL if the PPs are the problem, believe me i would give them all to you if I could :)
Having many pp realy doesn\'t give you any advantage. (and you know that ;) )
I hope Lemurs will come out in a short time :).
(I was about to say \"I hope Lemurs come out soon\" but that can mean ages :p)
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i always found that lack of PP was the main problem for me...
really annoyed me when i had to go kill a few ulbernauts just to train a few agility or strength levels.
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PP isn\'t the only problem. Money, training etc. I\'m tired of waiting for lemurs and the wipe so I can have my final char and begic to play and now they are wiping it without giving us lemurs which totally sucks for lemur players. While everyone is out there fighting and getting stronger we are still waiting for our race to arrive. I mean cmon, it\'s the only race left that isn\'t out yet and the dev\'s don\'t have it ready yet. I don\'t even care if it\'s skinned. I just want my race to say \"lemur\" so I can play ps thinking there\'s actually a point of my wasting my time.
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\"That\'s what Jorrit and I have been discussing earlier. There is no perfect solution to this problem unless if the character names are not changed...\"
Please excuse me for such a post-MB-migration Noob question (I asked a Game Master last night and couldn\'t get an answer--poor fellow was inundated and then crashed). So will character names be retained then? If all we have left is the RP relationships out of the game it would be much easier to get started back up if we can easily find our friends to band with and go monster-hunting. Both greater strength in numbers and jolly good company, I must say. :)
Also--will the client retain my password after it\'s updated? Yes I\'m another silly soul that\'s forgotten it already!
Thanks!
-----Danok
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As a GM told me the characters will be wiped entirely so we will have to rebuild them from scratch.
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If I may make a suggestion?
Slaying random beasts should not be a profession unless you\'re in some sort of legion. When crafting arrives these people should have to get day jobs.
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Is smeltering and weapon making going to be activated in the next update or anytime soon?
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I\'m going to be reworking the interface for the crafting stuff to make it easier to use. So it won\'t be ready for this release BUT I will try very hard to get something in there.
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Originally posted by CadRipper
GMs don\'t have the power to touch others\' statistics and inventories whatsoever. Please don\'t hassle them with that ;)
So whom do all the people turn to when they discover that all the quick path creation did was to discard their CP?
Originally posted by CadRipper
What was the worst move, enforcing RP names, or relaxing this rule? I fail to see your argument with the oldbie names.
Relaxing the rule, obviously. Since this fatal decision was made, I rarely see a GM > L1 on, and even if, the only thing they actually change are offensive and ridiculously obvious copy-cats. Even people like \"Superboi\" or \"Gigabit\" are left alone. :rolleyes:
As for the oldbie argument: it is a fact that there are several oldbies, including GMs, who have characters with names that don\'t (or barely) fit the naming rules. However, they are left alone because they\'re oldbies or GMs. Newbies, OTOH, with these names would have to be changed. This is hypocrisy.
Well, obviously the relaxation of the naming rule was a good idea since it got rid of the hypocrisy
Anyway, I don\'t see why the devs want to
1) wipe the chars with the update, thereby allowing the final chars to be created by an utterly untested system; it would be better to test and tweak the new item generation before doing the wipe
2) wipe the items after the char wipe, thereby allowing possible exploits by stat conversion; it would make a lot more sense to me to do no item wipe but instead postpone the big wipe until the time the item wipe would occur;
3) wipe the items only in the second wipe; it would be easier and cleaner to just re-wipe completely again.
As for the lemurs: I, too, think that all races should be be available. They don\'t need models, but they should be selectable. Gender and appearance can be changed later on, but the race cannot be as easily.
About the name stealing problem: For people who had chars with these names in MB, there won\'t be danger, because the migration reserves the name. For all chars that were created in CB, there is no such protection, and thus people will have to turn to GMs to get their names back if they were stolen.
@ Danok: the password doesn\'t matter, because it will be wiped as well. You will have to create an entirely new account, thus giving you the opportunity to enter a new password if you don\'t remember the current one.
@ Darkhack: What you are seeing is a small fraction of the community. Also, the wipe has been announced for months. People aren\'t happy about the fact that there will be a wipe. At least most aren\'t. What people are happy about is that the wipe will finally come and that they think that afterwards they can start grinding for \"a purpose\".
If another wipe will be announced say, a month after the first, then you will see that this community is not at all different from the others. There will be some who accept it without complaining too loudly, sure. However, just look at what the recent server outages, which lasted only for a comparatively short time, did. People were already asking that a backup server be brought up. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by CadRipper
It will surely end up in another return to the post-migration step,
Indeed this is more likely than anything else.
Originally posted by CadRipper
but it would be bad to tell that to everyone since it seems to render a whole part of the community inactive (a concept I\'ll never entirely grasp).
The only reason I can see for this is that these people aren\'t mainly roleplaying but mostly powerlevelling, which is why I am all for scheduling a complete wipe every three months.
Edit: Just look at this very thread. People wishing for more lootable MOBs, even wishing for monsters to have weapons to be looted. This means that their main focus is PL, not RP. While it is indeed necessary for RP to level a bit, this can easily be done during these times when there is no RP opportunity. It worked for me pretty well, though recently the bugged spawns indeed removed this option since every MOB was indeed heavily camped most of the time.
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i don\'t know. every three months. feels a bit harsh. though it is probably just a semi-random number. ... i hope.
though i agree. the paired wipes rather then one big wipe, is a bit odd in my book as well. though this may have been explained else well in the thread. i\'ll have to run off and check.
while i\'m not a big fan of a wipe. the fewer the better. but, i\'m rolling with this one for one big reason. there is absolutely js that i can do about it.
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Originally posted by Seytra
3) wipe the items only in the second wipe; it would be easier and cleaner to just re-wipe completely again.
Agreed. The second time should clear everything. If the characters are to remain \"permanent\" all should start off exactly equal. Though during the pre-release stages, I think Seytra\'s estimate of every 3 months might not be that far off... New things can\'t be implemented properly without the wipes. It\'s not evil, it just has to be done. Deal with it.
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Seeln: That\'s true, I\'ve seen many petitions and posts about this problem. If it didn\'t work in your case, maybe you should give the information to the devs so that they can check if they can reproduce the bug and hopefuly fix it.
Originally posted by Seytra
So whom do all the people turn to when they discover that all the quick path creation did was to discard their CP?
The developers are currently the only ones who can help them in that case.
Has this problem been reported? I see two closed issues in the bugtracker about CP but I know other tools were used. Did anyone got a feedback on this?
Originally posted by Seytra
Relaxing the rule, obviously. Since this fatal decision was made, I rarely see a GM > L1 on, and even if, the only thing they actually change are offensive and ridiculously obvious copy-cats. Even people like \"Superboi\" or \"Gigabit\" are left alone. :rolleyes:
As for the oldbie argument: it is a fact that there are several oldbies, including GMs, who have characters with names that don\'t (or barely) fit the naming rules. However, they are left alone because they\'re oldbies or GMs. Newbies, OTOH, with these names would have to be changed. This is hypocrisy.
That\'s what I thought, the question came from the fact that most people felt the other way round about the naming rules. But I\'m sure you saw the endless discussions about that in the forums: GMs are now seen as people sitting and unfairly renaming people when they\'re too bored to ban or kick. Maybe by the trolls themselves though, which is why I wouldn\'t care much ;)
Name issues have always been a pain, since day 1. Personally I\'d go on enforcing them as before, but on a practical level it\'s very awkward. Firstly because the name space is too small (maybe other characters could help a little bit), secondly because of the success of Planeshift. You simply have too many trolls to handle, and come to think of it, it\'s not different in commercial games where you regularly find silly names too.
After months of experience and ungratifying struggle, we all came to the same conclusion, relaxing is the only way.
What confused me in your argument is that the database wipe will reintroduce the names of MB, which are not RPG compliant for the most part. A lot of them have been changed, we\'ll see if they\'ll be changed this time with the new rules.
Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by CadRipper
but it would be bad to tell that to everyone since it seems to render a whole part of the community inactive (a concept I\'ll never entirely grasp).
The only reason I can see for this is that these people aren\'t mainly roleplaying but mostly powerlevelling, which is why I am all for scheduling a complete wipe every three months.
I\'m not a fan of PL, but I do think that a balanced experience is more enjoyable than pure RP, or pure crafting, or only fighting and so on. And I\'m convinced this view is shared by quite a few others. Except for pure RP, you need to progress to certain skill levels to enjoy it, so that\'s probably another reason that could explain this reaction.
I think there\'s more to it. When you are in a guild and want to try out a few ideas (e.g. teamwork, progression steps, ...), but that you are told the database will be reset soon, it tends to demotivate most of your members. They won\'t start something that can take a while if they see a big \"DB wipeout soon\" warning.
At least for those two reasons I wouldn\'t schedule a regular wipeout over a too short span of time. It\'s also worth pointing out that a part of the test is about the evolution of characters, the developers probably won\'t have a significant feedback on short periods.
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Originally posted by Seytra
As for the lemurs: I, too, think that all races should be be available. They don\'t need models, but they should be selectable. Gender and appearance can be changed later on, but the race cannot be as easily.
Exactly. Could you guys do this before you wipe? :) *puppy dog eye*
Pweeeezy :)
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Originally posted by CadRipper
Has this problem been reported? I see two closed issues in the bugtracker about CP but I know other tools were used. Did anyone got a feedback on this?
Originally posted by CadRipper
That\'s what I thought, the question came from the fact that most people felt the other way round about the naming rules. But I\'m sure you saw the endless discussions about that in the forums:
I have seen the countless threads of people who wanted to keep names that are unsuitable, yes. However, this does not mean that everyone feels that way, or even that most do. In fact, the (now locked) \"names\" thread proves that I am by far not the only one who is utterly unsatisfied with the current developments. In fact, there has been more people supporting a return to the previous standards ,and within a shorter time, than I have ever seen on one of the \"I want a dumb name\" threads. The reason why these usually aren\'t as vocal about it is because contrary to the 1337ers they have posted these arguments countless times before, whereas every 1337er thinks they are the first and also otherwise special.
Originally posted by CadRipper
Name issues have always been a pain, since day 1. Personally I\'d go on enforcing them as before, but on a practical level it\'s very awkward. Firstly because the name space is too small (maybe other characters could help a little bit),
In one of the naming threads, I calculated how many names were available, and IIRC with 10 letters I arrived at an astronomically high number that would allow to even not use 9 out of ten names and still be higher than the numbers of chars that were ever created in PS AB, MB and CB together. The name generator has no trouble coming up with new names. It\'s just the players whjo don\'t bother to use it / want to stand out for \"1337ness\" by having an improper name.
Originally posted by CadRipper
secondly because of the success of Planeshift. You simply have too many trolls to handle, and come to think of it, it\'s not different in commercial games where you regularly find silly names too.
Indeed, but in commercial games noone cares, because every troll is another paying custome. Therefore, allowing every possible name will yield higher income than would properly enforcing the rules, which is why obviously no company is going to do it.
Nevertheless, what we do now shapes what the community will become. We see this from AB and MB -> CB: the longer an improper name has been allowed to exist, the harder it will be to change it. Even GMs, who must be absolutely pristine since they are supposed to enforce the rules, have chars with improper names (this bigotry is probably one of the reasons for the relaxation of the rules!).
The more popular PS becomes, the more important is consistent enforcement of the rules, because word of mouth will influence whom people introduce to PS.
Therefore, if the enforcement is strict, the number of trolls will rise, but the number of people for whom PS isn\'t the right game will dwindle if even MMORPG websites say something like \"WARNING: very strict naming rules\", greatly reducing the amount of renaming and also sharpening the distinction between trolls and RPers.
Originally posted by CadRipper
After months of experience and ungratifying struggle, we all came to the same conclusion, relaxing is the only way.
Tell this to the police IRL...
Originally posted by CadRipper
What confused me in your argument is that the database wipe will reintroduce the names of MB, which are not RPG compliant for the most part. A lot of them have been changed, we\'ll see if they\'ll be changed this time with the new rules.
Indeed it will, but I expect the bearers of these names to /petition for a namechange immediately. Also, the char creation should automatically assign a preliminary random name upon upload if the previous name already is in the bad name database, which can easily be checked. But with the current \"enforcement\", I have no hopes of names like \"Waterforbody\" ever being changed.
Originally posted by CadRipper
I\'m not a fan of PL, but I do think that a balanced experience is more enjoyable than pure RP, or pure crafting, or only fighting and so on. And I\'m convinced this view is shared by quite a few others.
It is shared by me, to the point where RP ceases to be prime priority.
Originally posted by CadRipper
Except for pure RP, you need to progress to certain skill levels to enjoy it, so that\'s probably another reason that could explain this reaction.
Point taken.
Originally posted by CadRipper
I think there\'s more to it. When you are in a guild and want to try out a few ideas (e.g. teamwork, progression steps, ...), but that you are told the database will be reset soon, it tends to demotivate most of your members. They won\'t start something that can take a while if they see a big \"DB wipeout soon\" warning.
This I do not understand. If you are in a guild, then obviously you will expect the guild to be refounded and the members to return after the wipe, no? Therefore, if you progress through the ranks in the guild, you can reasonably assume that you will get promoted to your former rank immediately after the wipe? Also, teamwork is immediate, and it doesn\'t depend on your chars stats, so this can be done up until the second before the wipe and continued right after the wipe.
Originally posted by CadRipper
At least for those two reasons I wouldn\'t schedule a regular wipeout over a too short span of time. It\'s also worth pointing out that a part of the test is about the evolution of characters, the developers probably won\'t have a significant feedback on short periods.
Indeed I assumed that part of the reason for the wipe is feedback on char progression. Yet, the whining will be even louder if after, say, 12 months of grinding \"for a purpose\" another wipe will be announced, than after three months. In fact, I don\'t dislike \"building my char\" as people call it. It just is 1) only tertiary priority, the others being RP and exploration, and 2) something I do strictly within the confines of what my char realistically would learn. The only reason why I actually trained several things was to be able to find bugs in them. In fact, I regard the so called \"hunting\" (read: grinding) as 95% OOC activity.
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Originally posted by Seytra
In one of the naming threads, I calculated how many names were available, and IIRC with 10 letters I arrived at an astronomically high number [...]
Most people don\'t like to have the name of their character handed to them, they like to choose it and it\'s quite natural. And their imagination has nothing to do with astronomy ;)
In any case, unless the use of the random generator is enforced, the classical scenario that you can observe after a while is a newcomer trying one name, then another, yet another... and ultimately comes up with something either stupid or just provocative because they\'re upset. That was typical in the last months of MB, but hopefully the random generator will help in the case of CB - provided that people decide to use it after a few failures.
Originally posted by Seytra
Even GMs, who must be absolutely pristine since they are supposed to enforce the rules, have chars with improper names (this bigotry is probably one of the reasons for the relaxation of the rules!).
The reason is not there. But you\'re right about the names, this has to be tackled soon.
Originally posted by Seytra
Tell this to the police IRL...
Police? GMs are not paid, and they care, that\'s already two big differences. On the similarity side, I\'ll grant you that there are probably not enough of them to get the job done ;)
Seriously, it\'s quite straining to spend one\'s time checking the names, explaining to a troll why their name is wrong (most of the time not getting any form of response, the rest of the time being forced to argue for tens of minutes), trying to find a better name. It often ends up in IRC with a complaint against the GM who then has to justify everything a second time. Or it happens in the forums, which forces a moderator to lock the thread...
And then everyone suddenly wonders why some GMs are not as kind as before. Or not so available for more important issues.
All this pushed towards the \"relaxation\" of the rule, and it doesn\'t mean not renaming bad names, but limiting the action to annoying ones. This rule is still enforced.
But sorry, it\'s getting a bit off-topic...
Originally posted by Seytra
Indeed it will, but I expect the bearers of these names to /petition for a namechange immediately. [...]
Hopefully some will ask for a name change. The name refusal at character creation can\'t be applied because of the migration, and it certainly couldn\'t give a random name without the user\'s approval, it would be harsh to say the least.
Originally posted by Seytra
This I do not understand. If you are in a guild, then obviously you will expect the guild to be refounded and the members to return after the wipe, no? [...]
*nods* The guild structure shouldn\'t be affected. The problem arises when you want to set up a strategy to increase the wealth of the guild, training everyone, buying weapons, ... in summary making it work like a guild, and not individuals.
If a DB reset is planned soon, possibly with a change of the system, most will just think it\'s better to wait until everything is settled. That doesn\'t stop anyone from coming in the game, but that\'s one less possibility.
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Originally posted by Seytra
The only reason I can see for this is that these people aren\'t mainly roleplaying but mostly powerlevelling, which is why I am all for scheduling a complete wipe every three months.
I think that wiping characters more often will make powerlevelling a bigger problem because ppl will try to get stronger all the time and having to start over every 3 months will make them camp monsters more.
Anyway, what has powerlevelling to do with RP? The ones who focus on that only will dissapear anyway in a short time as soon as they reach max skills and stats and get bored having nothing else to do.
One can powerlevel and roleplay at the same time.
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Originally posted by Seytra
The only reason I can see for this is that these people aren\'t mainly roleplaying but mostly powerlevelling, which is why I am all for scheduling a complete wipe every three months.
Edit: Just look at this very thread. People wishing for more lootable MOBs, even wishing for monsters to have weapons to be looted. This means that their main focus is PL, not RP. While it is indeed necessary for RP to level a bit, this can easily be done during these times when there is no RP opportunity. It worked for me pretty well, though recently the bugged spawns indeed removed this option since every MOB was indeed heavily camped most of the time.
What\'s wrong with power leveling? As long as it is done in an RP way I see no problems with it. I\'d like to combine RP with PL as I feel that gives me most experience and fun out of the game.
Greetings,
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Ah the Wipe. All my PL stats are belong to them! Run for the hills! Ah! The hills have been wiped! Run for the background!
If you don\'t hang out in the IRC channel #planeshift on irc://irc.freenode.net, you should try it sometime. I\'ve done it enough that while not truly accepted as more than a sometimes amusing most times annoying P.I.T.A, I\'ve gotten to where I can recognize most of the less than 10 full time Developers, a handful of the dedicated and much maligned GM\'s, and a few of the oldbies. Did I say less than 10? Yep, actually it\'s much less than 10.
One of the big differences between chat and message boards is that MB\'s give you a chance to think out yer logic and arguments and responses. Guess what? The all powerful, all knowing, hardworking and dedicated Devs are just people! Imagine that! They\'ve done an incredible job creating a very unique and free virtual world MMORPG that is NEVER going to turn into P2P. So they are NEVER gonna get paid for all this hard work. So they have to hold real jobs and or go to classes at school, deal with their families, do other things than program PS nonstop! OMG! How dare they!
If you don\'t like something about the game, the dreaded WIPE, the fact that it\'s a Tech Demo (OMG I\'ve been playing a Tech Demo!) then do what I did! Demand yer money back! LOL
I\'ve got 2 questions. 1. Are the placeholder graphics gonna get replaced with better graphics? Cause that would be cool! 2. Since this is a tech demo, is it possible you might have to do another wipe at some time in the future? Cause, that seems possible to me...(/me hides behind BeerMugODeath)
To all the Devs, great work! I can\'t wait to continue TESTING this tech demo after the dreaded WIPE!
I\'ll have to stop PL\'ing and use my time in game to RP, because I\'m trying to learn to program using Python for Windows because I\'m scared of Linux. What can I say? Hey, the fact that I PL should say it all! What? Knoppix? (/me sighs) Fine! (/me grumbles about OS elitists and ignores them smirking about python wuss who can\'t hang with a Real high level Language like C++)
I\'ve never had the time or opportunity to test a tech demo before! As we can all see from the game, the IRC channel and the message boards, an open to the public testing policy brings it own headaches as well as rewards. But since I\'m not a Dev, GM or even an MB oldbie, I\'ve had as much fun watching people actually gripe about having the privilege of playing the game, as actually playing the game!
You know what we should all really be happy about? The fact that despite this being a free, not sponsored, never gonna be P2P game, we can usually log on and RPG or PL to our greedy lil hearts content.
Thanks for all the fishes. You know the movie\'s out. Nobody should have an excuse for not getting this reference!
/me Drinks some Ale and spellchecks another pointlessly long post...
WAIT! Is there gonna be drinking after the WIPE? No, I meant IN the game! LOL
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(/me grumbles about OS elitists and ignores them smirking about python wuss who can\'t hang with a Real high level Language like C++)
Thats the only part of that incoherent rant I understood. C++ rocks. Python sucks.
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I, for one, will be very glad when the UPDATE arrives, no matter what the cost to my poor character\'s persona, wealth and skill levels. And don\'t let me forget to add my congratulations to the designers, programmers and artists who have all done such a fine job on this on-going project.
My feeling about Role-Playing versus Power-Leveling is that the very act of Role-Playing at this time is very limited.
I could role-play very happily if by means of that role-playing I could derive a continuing satisfaction and feeling of ACCOMPLISHMENT. But this is not possible at this time.
Our characters are so very limited in what they can actually do. As I have often said, \"My character can\'t even sit down when he is tired.\" I cannot \"create\" any new gestures, motions or dances or what have you. The best I can attempt at this time is to paint a \"word picture\" of my feelings... via an extremely small, single-line chat box that makes this forum window seem an absolute luxury in comparison.
But to continue...
I can mine and mine and mine, but can do little with the ore at this time, except to sell it. A long, slow and tedious operation that has made the killing of rats seem a blessing... most especially when comparing the relative rewards.
It has not been possible for me to complete any of the quests (the NPC\'s took things from me, but rewarded me with nothing... and I was left with dangling, quests that could not be completed)...
There is, as yet, nothing in the way of a crafting system that would allow me to get a \"day job\" in the game... creating something or selling something or providing a service to others...
It is not yet possible to construct anything within the environment. No houses, no sculptures, no road blocks... I wouldn\'t even be able to post some artwork or what have you...
It is not possible to \"customize\" one\'s character. No head dress, no variation in coloring. Not even simple shirt or banner designs...
The environment, itself, is also fixed. Doors cannot open, the scenary is mostly static. There are no \"puzzles\" to be tackled at this time. No secret compartments or traps or boxes. There isn\'t so much there to challenge the player\'s cleverness. Mostly, the player only has the opportunity to walk or run through the environment... or by a mis-step to occasionally fall to his death or such.
Power Leveling ends up as the only currently viable goal for the player. And it is then so that Power leveling becomes the daily foundation upon which we characters build our personalities.
Now I do not think that this is completely a bad thing. And certainly, many of us have had a fine time within this somewhat limited framework. We have had lots of fun and have made some good \"virtual\" acquaintances and associations along the way.
If there is any criticism at all, it would be that the game has so many \"unexplored ideas\", so many \"unfinished bits\", so many \"raw edges\".... or should we just look (with a kinder eye) upon this as an \"infinity of future possibilites\"? One could defininitely make all sorts of suggestions as to how the game could be improved, but it is certainly not bad given its current state of development.
I do not yet know what pleasures (or unexpected BUG\'s) the UPDATE will bring, but I shall look forward to experiencing it and trying (in some way) to develop my persona within the game. If Power-Leveling is the only viable mode - relative to the limitations imposed by the game\'s structure and environment - then that is the one I shall follow. But be assured... as other interesting possibilities are made available I shall be more than just a little interested and curious to experiment with them. They will lead to the future... and very possibly to that RP environment of which people speak so lovingly. ;-)
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I tip my hat to you Kelden. An awesome outlook towards the update! I share the same feelings, even though I have an assortment of glyphs, mugs and the like. In the end, the game will only get better and I\'m all for a wipe or two.
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Originally posted by jorrit
What\'s wrong with power leveling? As long as it is done in an RP way I see no problems with it. I\'d like to combine RP with PL as I feel that gives me most experience and fun out of the game.
Thank you for putting it like this. Too often I either hear RPers ranting about how one should ignore the actual game and only RP, and PLers ranting about how limited the game is and refusing to RP. It\'s all about creating a level of immersion into a world. No one wants to need to mindlessly kill things forever (I hope), but getting rid of actual combat all together defeats the purpose of making the game in the first place. Insane PLing needs to die as a viable option (simply \"training\" is realistic and IC), and RPing needs to become natural. It\'s all about balance folks. :)
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Nods at the last remark
Originally posted by jorrit
What\'s wrong with power leveling? As long as it is done in an RP way I see no problems with it. I\'d like to combine RP with PL as I feel that gives me most experience and fun out of the game.
... then maybe it\'s not really powerlevelling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerlevelling), but the normal levelling that occurs naturally as you enjoy a more balanced gaming experience :)
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Originally posted by CadRipper
Nods at the last remark
Originally posted by jorrit
What\'s wrong with power leveling? As long as it is done in an RP way I see no problems with it. I\'d like to combine RP with PL as I feel that gives me most experience and fun out of the game.
... then maybe it\'s not really powerlevelling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerlevelling), but the normal levelling that occurs naturally as you enjoy a more balanced gaming experience :)
Perhaps but Seytra seemed to suggest that gaining power is inherently bad. No matter how it was done. i.e. the suggestion was even to do a full wipe very three months or so.
Greetings,
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So the shadows are gathering yet again...The Great Wipe, that is waited by some, even by me in a way, (maybe this time I will actually be able to use MY NAME, and not some stupid mutation that I had to use just because someone created same first name as me, grrr) is coming soon. Although I am sceptical about this \"soon\".
It\'s nice to see some news released, although when there\'s no news there\'s always cvs which is fun enough. :)
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Here is an example of powerleveling being necesary for roleplay.
As the quest system was down many players started they\'re own quests (including myself and i plan to do that more often).
So, let\'s say that my father wich was killed by an evil wizard lost his sword somewhere and that thing is verry precious to me.
I give directions and clues to others, based on an old document i found when i avenged my father, and they go searching for my father\'s sword.
They find it but as i\'m weak and canot kill some monsters in order to give them a reward i say \"Thank you my friend.\"
I wonder now if i will get so many ppl doing my quests and search for weeks maby to get a simple \"Thank you\".
I\'m shure some would do it for the adventure and for fun but some would do it for adventure, fun and money.
Plus i would feel verry bad for not rewarding them.
So i still stick to my oppinion that PL and RP can exist in the same place.
To improve roleplaying i think we should have more public activityes although some may wonder how will those help.
Those will help because in fact roleplaying has to do with ppl and if we have activityes where everyone can participate some can meet new friends, can hear they\'re bacground storryes and perhaps they may even have fun.
Edited:
Thank you Cad for the deffinition :)
Quote from Wikipedia :
Powerleveling is most frequently used in multiplayer games, where it usually refers to a player that is of much greater power assisting a player of much lower power in defeating monsters that are far too powerful for the low level player, but are easily and quickly killed by the more powerful player. Defeating high level challenges rewards the lower level player with experience points more rapidly than normal.
End Quote.
I\'ve rarely seen that happening in Planeshift so i think we are safe ;)
So we are talking about leveling...
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Originally posted by jorrit
Perhaps but Seytra seemed to suggest that gaining power is inherently bad. No matter how it was done. i.e. the suggestion was even to do a full wipe very three months or so.
Probably I have failed to express myself clearly, then. I did not intent to suggest that gaining power is always bad. I was saying that it most often is done without RP reason, RP background, RP justification; in summary: more often than not, levelling and RP are two completely separate things.
Yes, people will argue that they \"RP someone who only wants to gain power, by whatever means\", or that they \"PL in an RP way\". Sadly, this way to paper over their uncaringness for RP becomes obvious when you try to actually RP with them, and also when you witness that the non stat-driven factors that usually are involved in gaining power, namely social interaction, are completely absent from their so called \"RP\".
So what makes that so bad, as RPers can simply ignore them, then?
1) RPers cannot simply ignore them. They are obviously the ones who camp all MOBs, so that when an RPer needs to level they will have to put up with greedy PLers and beg them to let them have a kill or two.
2) How do PLers show off? Exactly, by using their pretty stats. Even if they don\'t start griefing, they will and do battle among themselves or walk around challenging everything that moves or talks or somewhat remotely looks like a player. Therefore, they disrupt the RP by challenge spam and / or by cluttering up the scenery and chat window with their battling.
3) A PL is never going to talk appropriately. They can\'t be bothered to designate their OOC talk. They don\'t even understand nor care what that means.
So yes, PLs do detract from the RP experience. While there may, in some limited cases, be some faint justification of PL in the sense of the third paragraph of the wikipedia entry, i.e., in guilds, there is no justification for it in the sense of the first and second paragraphs.
And yes, I suggested a regular wipe, because it
1) would still allow testing
2) would make all non RP levelling pointless and thus hopefully discourage it completely
I don\'t think it\'d make PL worse, because AFAICS, people who only want to max out their stats will not bother if they know it\'ll all be gone after 3 months at most.
However, as I said, since some levelling is required to be able to believably RP, this would also negatively affect RP. I\'m not sure how much, though.
As for the limited options that supposedly hinder RP: this is the usual constructed argument PLs use to justify their unwillingness to RP, as DaveG pointed out correctly. There is absolutely no way to ever have the amount of gestures and expressions that would be required to actually RP without any text besides what is spoken by a char. Not as long as full fledged VR is there. While the presence of a lot of animations would certainly help RP, the myriads of variations and ad-hoc gestures cannot be captured by it. /me-ing even is easier to use than animations, because selecting the correct animation will take longer since you need to dig through menus and subsubsubmenus, and also you need to grab the mouse first.
However, jorrits emphasis on PL AFAICS proves that the main focus of the dev team is not RP, but grinding. It is no coincidence that theDuelling Points, that have absolutely no relevance to RP, are present in the stats window. Even worse, the one most important and most complete feature for RP, the char description, has been essentially removed with the introduction of the DP display. This is a sure sign of utter disrespect for RP by whoever did it. As my patch in the tech help section proves, it was quite easy to make the editor usable again, and therefore there is no excuse for this not having been done by the devs before the update was distributed!
There is no way a RP oriented dev could have missed this, so it\'s obvious that it wasn\'t considered important, which is a very very bad sign.
I therefore stand by that while PS claims to be about RP, it in fact is not, and instead is becoming more and more like any other MMO\"RP\"G out there by it\'s implementation, which is the only thing that matters.
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Originally posted by Eolius
Here is an example of powerleveling being necesary for roleplay.
As the quest system was down many players started they\'re own quests (including myself and i plan to do that more often).
So, let\'s say that my father wich was killed by an evil wizard lost his sword somewhere and that thing is verry precious to me.
I give directions and clues to others, based on an old document i found when i avenged my father, and they go searching for my father\'s sword.
They find it but as i\'m weak and canot kill some monsters in order to give them a reward i say \"Thank you my friend.\"
I wonder now if i will get so many ppl doing my quests and search for weeks maby to get a simple \"Thank you\".
I\'m shure some would do it for the adventure and for fun but some would do it for adventure, fun and money.
Plus i would feel verry bad for not rewarding them.
So i still stick to my oppinion that PL and RP can exist in the same place.
To improve roleplaying i think we should have more public activityes although some may wonder how will those help.
Those will help because in fact roleplaying has to do with ppl and if we have activityes where everyone can participate some can meet new friends, can hear they\'re bacground storryes and perhaps they may even have fun.
If you can\'t figure out a creative alternative to powerlevelling to be able to provide rewards to quests, then I just want to know where you copied the name Eolius from, because you obviously don\'t have enough of an imagination to come up with it on your own...
That is either a lousy excuse, or just plain sad.
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Originally posted by Phinehas
If you can\'t figure out a creative alternative to powerlevelling to be able to provide rewards to quests, then I just want to know where you copied the name Eolius from, because you obviously don\'t have enough of an imagination to come up with it on your own...
That is either a lousy excuse, or just plain sad.
Hmm, actually what Eolius seems to say would be acceptable, because it would
1) while being OOC, have RP as reason,
2) would be going on for a very limited time only and
3) would be done in a nondisruptive as possible way.
Obviously you can team up with someone who has a lot of money to give out the rewards, but they need to get that money first, too. A quest doesn not need a big reward, but it does need some reward. If the reward is big, PLs will do the quest to more easily gain money, so it\'s even a bad thing. Still, it is nice to get something in return, especially to be able to tie in the participation of your char in the quest in your RP.
If that was what he intended to say, that is. Grinding sword, armor and HP up to max in order to be able to provide quest rewards is, obviosuly, pure nonsense. By the time you reach these stats, you could have rewarded hundreds of quests.
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If you can\'t figure out a creative alternative to powerlevelling to be able to provide rewards to quests, then I just want to know where you copied the name Eolius from, because you obviously don\'t have enough of an imagination to come up with it on your own... That is either a lousy excuse, or just plain sad.
Well, comming up with some quests and not saying \"go look for a sword near the third tree in the woods\" i think it requires a bit of imagination...
I was not trying to start a flame or anything i was just pointing out that one can roleplay and levell up at the same time.
As rewards for the completition of quests please make a sugestion...
The name is not copied neither ;)
I really consider Planeshift GREAT because of the comunity there and not because of the fact that i kill 30 rougues and get a sword and lots of pp.
I also think that ppl should roleplay more but i don\'t think that levelling is stopping ppl from roleplaying.
Who wants only levelling will soon get bored and leave but perhaps menwhile he/she will tell some friends that are not aiming to levell only about Planeshift and the role playing comunity will gain more members :)
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Personally my belief is that levelling should be done in cooperation with RP. Take my character for instance. Phinehas has a lot of inner power, but not that much knowledge of magic (per se). Therefore I would level my mental stats, namely will, intelligence, and charisma fairly high. However, I wouldn\'t level my skill in each way unless consistent with the advancement of my character RP-wise...
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I really agree with you but i\'m online almost all day and there are lots of times when i have no friend online or i have nothing to do since there are so few public activities so the only thing left for me to do is camp a monster and hope somebody will show up to chat a while and maby meet new ppl.
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Or you could just get a life... :P (That was meant as a joke, not to be personally insulting. *sigh* Apologizing again, I\'m such a softy...)
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No offense taken ;) i have a life too :p
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Then how are you online almost all day?
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almost... and not every day... ;)
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Originally posted by Seytra
However, jorrits emphasis on PL AFAICS proves that the main focus of the dev team is not RP, but grinding.\\
I was stating my opinion there. My opinion has nothing to do with what the rest of the dev team thinks about this issue. Also I wasn\'t placing emphasis on PL. I was placing emphasis on the good balance between PL and RP.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by Seytra
However, jorrits emphasis on PL AFAICS proves that the main focus of the dev team is not RP, but grinding.\\
I was stating my opinion there. My opinion has nothing to do with what the rest of the dev team thinks about this issue. Also I wasn\'t placing emphasis on PL. I was placing emphasis on the good balance between PL and RP.
Greetings,
Why did you end your post with \"Greetings,\"? It was just to get to me, wasn\'t it? It was so I would sit there and wonder why, wasn\'t it? You did it with the express purpose of wasting my time and energy... You are an evil person, Jorrit, verrrry evil...
It can\'t be a signature, can it, my precioussss... No, for it shows up when I quote him, doesn\'t it, my preciousss? Yess, yess, he\'s a nasty mansss, isn\'t he?
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Sounds like the PLs want a hack n slash game while the RPers want some sort of drama school play without fighting. The obvious solution is of course to cater them both and try to balance both roleplaying and.. ahem, action. What I think is really ridiculous is how the RPers tend to flame the PLs, and vice versa. There\'s no need to fight like that, one type of gameplay doesn\'t naturally exclude the other.
If you want to stand at the plaza for hours at a time, telling ever so boring tales about your childhood and how you are \"the chosen one\", then go right ahead. Noone is stopping you. And if you want to advance through the game at your own pace, killing 1000 rats without uttering a single word then that\'s also fine by me.
What I don\'t think is \"fine\" though, are the many trolls and newbies who go by names like \"DarkAssazin\" etc and ask the roleplayers for \"phat lewt\". But keep in mind that most power levelers are nothing like this, I consider myself more a powerleveler than a roleplayer, though I certainly don\'t mind having a friendly chat, or helping new players to the game.
So you see, there\'s not much point in flaming people what style/way they play this game in, as long as it is not directly disturbing or offending other players.
And good job on the update you guys, can\'t wait until the big wipe happens!
Hello,
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oooough is he gonna get it from Phinehas for ending the post with \"Hello,\" :p (a joke, no harm intended ;) )
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by Seytra
However, jorrits emphasis on PL AFAICS proves that the main focus of the dev team is not RP, but grinding.\\
I was stating my opinion there. My opinion has nothing to do with what the rest of the dev team thinks about this issue. Also I wasn\'t placing emphasis on PL. I was placing emphasis on the good balance between PL and RP.
While I agree that there needs to be a balance between RP and levelling, I maintain that powerlevelling has, or rather should have, no place in PS, and most definitely PL must not be catered to!
Also, as for the general way PS development is headed in, what about this (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=17993&boardid=13&styleid=4#4) and the DP display vs. history editor?
Edit: I do know that crafting is in the works and that an animation editor is being worked on as well. Still, there is considerably more being done in the PL department than in the RP one. Not to mention that the completely code-independant history and settings part, which is one of the pillars of RP, has seen absolutely no update whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Seytra
...
Edit: I do know that crafting is in the works and that an animation editor is being worked on as well. Still, there is considerably more being done in the PL department than in the RP one. Not to mention that the completely code-independant history and settings part, which is one of the pillars of RP, has seen absolutely no update whatsoever.
So why don\'t you jump into the mix and help update it?
/me Drinks some Ale and cranks up Idle
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
(/me grumbles about OS elitists and ignores them smirking about python wuss who can\'t hang with a Real high level Language like C++)
Thats the only part of that incoherent rant I understood. C++ rocks. Python sucks.
Nuh uh! C++ sucks cause that much backwards compatibility sucks! And so there! Besides, Pylon is a much \"higher level\" language! Neener neener! It could be worse, I could be learning to program with Ruby. What\'s a function? lol
Um, the main part of that incoherent rant that I cared about was the statement about the Wipe. Unless it was planned when they first stated it, it was meant as a bug fix. Which means that it could happen again at a later point. Can you say Tech Demo? Also I wanted to know if the better graphics were gonna be implemented instead of the placeholders like the trees. Cause even PL\'ers like prettier colors. My life depends on these answers. No it really does! Ooh pretty colors...
/me wonders how that slime got in his beer mug...
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Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by jorrit
Perhaps but Seytra seemed to suggest that gaining power is inherently bad. No matter how it was done. i.e. the suggestion was even to do a full wipe very three months or so.
Probably I have failed to express myself clearly, then. I did not intent to suggest that gaining power is always bad. I was saying that it most often is done without RP reason, RP background, RP justification; in summary: more often than not, levelling and RP are two completely separate things.
Yes, people will argue that they \"RP someone who only wants to gain power, by whatever means\", or that they \"PL in an RP way\". Sadly, this way to paper over their uncaringness for RP becomes obvious when you try to actually RP with them, and also when you witness that the non stat-driven factors that usually are involved in gaining power, namely social interaction, are completely absent from their so called \"RP\".
I agree that there are those that don\'t care about actually interacting with people, and resort to mindless PLing only. By and large, these people don\'t stay around forever, so they\'re only a minor annoyance. The problem is not that these people exist, that they are here, but that PS has a system that encourages them. The lack of quests and the braindead NPC AI makes PLing too tempting.
Originally posted by Seytra
So what makes that so bad, as RPers can simply ignore them, then?
1) RPers cannot simply ignore them. They are obviously the ones who camp all MOBs, so that when an RPer needs to level they will have to put up with greedy PLers and beg them to let them have a kill or two.
As far as I\'m concerned, the bulk of the solution to this problem is answered in this thread here. (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=17646&boardid=11)
Originally posted by Seytra
2) How do PLers show off? Exactly, by using their pretty stats. Even if they don\'t start griefing, they will and do battle among themselves or walk around challenging everything that moves or talks or somewhat remotely looks like a player. Therefore, they disrupt the RP by challenge spam and / or by cluttering up the scenery and chat window with their battling.
You think that those with high stats automatically evil or something? Stats and skills are part of the game. Granted, they don\'t work as well as one would like yet. The solution to this has been suggested many times, and is to simply ban dueling in the plaza and make a special place for it in the arena.
Originally posted by Seytra
3) A PL is never going to talk appropriately. They can\'t be bothered to designate their OOC talk. They don\'t even understand nor care what that means.
So yes, PLs do detract from the RP experience.
First of all, the whole (OOC)-ness is not that obvious to someone new. Secondly, while I do use the parens for quick OOC chat and I agree that in RP situations it is needed, it quickly gets excessive. Often a group of people hovering near Harquist is having one massive OOC conversation, and parening everything just gets stupid. Obsessively parening everything is overkill; just talk.
About the systematic wipe idea: I agree that occasional wipes are needed to implement features. Not to intentionally kill levels. You should not be trying to cancel out the game itself. Make the game work idealy, don\'t hack it by frying things.
Originally posted by Seytra
Grinding sword, armor and HP up to max in order to be able to provide quest rewards is, obviosuly, pure nonsense. By the time you reach these stats, you could have rewarded hundreds of quests.
No. First of all, maxing out sword and armor takes almost no time. PS, as it is before the wipe, has logarithmic skill progression. You advance relatively fast, then after a certain point it gets insanely harder to progress (stats are more expensive). Secondly, have you ever tried to attack a monster with crap stats?... Doesn\'t work does it? If you want to actually use the game at all, like say, going on a quest in monster infested areas, you need to be able to actually kill them without dying. To play PS you need to gain these stats. And ONLY someone who has high stats can afford to sponsor quests, because it is the only way to get money.
Originally posted by Seytra
While I agree that there needs to be a balance between RP and levelling, I maintain that powerlevelling has, or rather should have, no place in PS, and most definitely PL must not be catered to!
I think a missunderstanding is in place, here. I and the devs want a noticable skill/stat system, and to have it progress naturally as you play the game. Some training can be IC and is fine. We, however, don\'t want levels to be the only part of the game.
Originally posted by Phinehas
Personally my belief is that levelling should be done in cooperation with RP.
Yes. BALANCE.
@Seytra: Your stance on these issues suggests that you don\'t believe the game should even have stats/skills in it. The solution to these issues is to fix the problems, not throw half the game. The game is intended to be a cohesive RP world, which requires skills/stats to allow the characters to progress and interact in an immersive way. This is what the devs are making. (having nothing to do with jorrit\'s comments; just look at the game itself) While there are admittedly some abuses, the solution is to fix them, and not just fry things.
There are 2 poles to this issue: to full RP with no levels, and to full PL with no interaction. Both sides are crap. Please people, meet me in the middle here... :P
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I\'m probably in the extreme minority here, and I\'ll probably get chased out with pitchforks and torches, but I\'m the sort who plays MMORPGs to gain levels and skills and such, sure, but I understand rather well what RP is. I just usually choose to avoid RP in MMORPGs, though I try to avoid disrupting it if I see it going on. Granted, most MMORPGs don\'t exactly have environments that encourage RP, though... I suppose it\'s just unfair to label all of those who are there simply for the mechanics of the game as ignorant of RP.
(Though I still think that serious RP should be left to MU*s and tabletops and such, but that\'s just my misguided opinion. And this didn\'t really add anything to this discussion, nor is it the middle ground that was being sought.)
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I tottally agree with DaveG.
I am afraid that with the switch to CB problems have arisen that were not present before.
1. In MB there was only roleplaying. I mean hunting crystals got boring fast so everyone who stayed roleplayed atleast a little. I think many of these roleplayers forgot that PS is a game in making. It means your roleplay while playing. But also in most RPGs there simply aren\'t many people who exually roleplay with eachother. Most roleplay with the NPCs. It doesn\'t say anywhere at the PS site it is mandatory to RP so how can you expect people to act different then in any other multi player RPG.
2. The new players tend to go the other way. The game is now interesting enough to keep people somewhat interesting, but there is no story, there are no quests and frankly most RP people in my opinion aren\'t very forgiving to RP mistakes. This means those people who stay don\'t RP and try to level and the only way they can is to camp at mobs as pointed out.
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@ DaveG: My experience was quite the opposite. Levelling up becomes increasingly easier while you advance. Even the increased distance you have to run between some trainers and MOBs to practice on didn\'t make up for the time it took at low levels to get one single kill. In fact, since the costs for training do not go up as you progress, there is no trace of logarithmic. It\'s 42 T for the first training bit at level zero, and it\'s still 42T for the last training bit at level 80. Likewise, for all I have experienced, the stats are not handled differently.
As for the lack of quests: I agree that this reduces the options to PL and RP, aye.
I don\'t consider high stats inherently evil. I, too, have, over the months, maxed some skills. Nevertheless, their use in RP is limited due to the differences in player online / grind time. Thus, they are only really useful in the interaction with the environment (quests), not in the actual RP part of the game. However, obviously, you cannot RP an experienced crystal way mage if you have zero levels in the crystal way, which is why I say limited[//i] use to RP. IIRC, I have managed to actually use, or witnessed actual use, of stats three or four times. Everything else was either plain or mostly OOC. It\'s basically the same problem that PnP RPGers face when forming a new party. Usually it is taken care of by artificially averaging the chars to about the same level, so that they and the NPCs can meaningfully use their stats.
Obviously this is not possible in a MMORPG, but still one must be careful to avoid RP vs. level conflicts.
As for me not wishing to have levels of any sort: this is partially true, yes. I think that due to the problems I lined out, stats don\'t really benefit RP. However, there is use for them ingame: as some way to keep one busy when there is no RP going on. It definitely is not the other way around.
Anyway, the designation of OOC is still mandatory IMO, even in the plaza. It is, after all, endured, not wanted in PS. Not designating it is acceptable only
- in group- and guildchat and tells or
- if you are in a place where you can reasonably assume that noone else will see your conversation.
@ Pestilence: Indeed some RPers tend to overdo things. I, too, prefer a clear OOC statement of \"(Please clearly designate OOC talk)\" to the NPC-like behaviour of \"What is that computer you speak of?\".
@ Malicus: why would MU*s be better suited for decent RP than a MMORPG? MUDs have levelling and stats and everything else it takes to PL, too? Conversely, PL is not an online gaming phenomenon, it is present in PnP RPGs just as well. The only difference there is that you can select whom you want to have in your party, whereas in online games, you need to make special rules and mechanics to reduce it\'s impact.
However, I accept your point of saying that not every PL is ignorant of RP.
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Originally posted by Seytra
@ Malicus: why would MU*s be better suited for decent RP than a MMORPG? MUDs have levelling and stats and everything else it takes to PL, too? Conversely, PL is not an online gaming phenomenon, it is present in PnP RPGs just as well. The only difference there is that you can select whom you want to have in your party, whereas in online games, you need to make special rules and mechanics to reduce it\'s impact.
It doesn\'t have to do with the existance or non-existance of PL in the environment. Quite simply, MMORPGs won\'t be as immersive as a non-graphical environment because there will probably never feasibly be a way to easily graphically represent everything that a character could want to do in an RP session, whereas with the latter, the things your character does are already in words, so it\'s easier to apply some imagination to it. It\'s almost kind of corny to see someone emote doing some intricate action while their character just stands there like a lump. Then again, I suppose this particular argument has been drilled into the ground here and elsewhere. It\'s the first time I\'ve bothered to use it, though. And I suppose it really doesn\'t belong in this thread. I\'ll leave it now...
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strayed off topic there a bit ^^
*points at the wipe speeding down a hill on a trebuchet*
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Originally posted by Seytra
@ DaveG: My experience was quite the opposite. Levelling up becomes increasingly easier while you advance. Even the increased distance you have to run between some trainers and MOBs to practice on didn\'t make up for the time it took at low levels to get one single kill. In fact, since the costs for training do not go up as you progress, there is no trace of logarithmic.
Yes, but I\'m talking about overall strength. Training itself is easier, but the bulk of fighting strength (sword and light armor) is fairly easy. After that, stat training is a slow process, even if you can get money easier. Maxing out sword brings your attack damage up into the 40\'s, and after that you can reach the 50\'s by maxing out strength and agility. The first is fairly cheap, the second is extremely expensive. What I was referring to is the effects of the training. But, this is even more off topic...
Originally posted by Demarthl
strayed off topic there a bit ^^
*points at the wipe speeding down a hill on a trebuchet*
Wow... Demarthl double-posted! :P
(EDIT: That was deleted fast. :) )
Topic?... What\'s a topic?... :rolleyes:
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*attaches DaveG to the trebuchet and launches him back to atomic blue*
thats a topic xD
i deleted that post myself, if you didnt notice when you go to edit theres a lil box thats tick-able callete \'delete post\', comes in handy for double posting :p
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Originally posted by Demarthl
*attaches DaveG to the trebuchet and launches him back to atomic blue*
thats a topic xD
i deleted that post myself, if you didnt notice when you go to edit theres a lil box thats tick-able callete \'delete post\', comes in handy for double posting :p
Ahhh!! Noooo I had 1/2 a frame a second... flee!!
(stupid 3dFX Voodoo card............. :P )
You can delete posts?... Because, I don\'t have that... ?( Sounds like it\'s a GM feature.
EDIT:
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2729/editpic7hc.th.png) (http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2729/editpic7hc.png)
Nope... delete-less... :(
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its usually under deactivate smilies, of where the picture cuts off :p
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Originally posted by Demarthl
its usually under deactivate smilies, of where the picture cuts off :p
That\'s the end of my options... just the buttons after that. I don\'t have one.
See:
(http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/8236/editpic28pc.th.png) (http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/8236/editpic28pc.png)
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*shrug* guess your not special then :p.
anyway back on topic
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i deleted one of my posts once i think? but i dont have any button to do it here. i went to edit and then pasted some stuff in clicked the accept button think the BOOM the post was gone and i was all like \"cool..\"
but now i do have a delete post button when i go into edit, and this is way off topic so if you like shout at me and i will delete it :D
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heres my view on the subject of powerlevelling:
I agree that it should not happen here, at least not in this ever-so-spawncamping way.
the solution howerver would be complex: the whole enemy system would have to be changed from point spawns to large spawn areas, where the players actually have to hunt for a kill.
for example: the entire entrance area of the sewers should feature the ever so present rats in completely random places, whilst the deeper areas feature tefusangs etc.
this way we get rid of the spawncamping (which I find to be horribly boring, but rather the only way to obtain PP/Trias) and force players to move while hunting.
we also get a great deal more realism.
in some of the outside areas, the paths should be clear of spawns, except maybe if you want some dangerous roads or something on these lines. just that there is some kind of safe zone outside the town, especially for lower chars.
about the wipe:
I agree that the char creation problems should be adressed first, I wouldnt mind waiting until then.
maybe even fix the point spawn problem (so that there are more monsters for everyone), OR increase the number of spawn points so that they dont get too crowded (imo, the number of rat spawns is ridiculously low, right now there are like 3 spawns I know of, 1 tefu spawn and 2-3 gobble spawns.) - of course, Id rather prefer spawn areas ;)
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Originally posted by Demarthl
*shrug* guess your not special then :p.
anyway back on topic
I am so special!... ;(
Ok... waaaaaay back...
People will be re-importing their MB characters. Will we start post-wipe with some super rich people from crystal -> tria conversions?
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theres about 50 rats in the sewers, about 47 of them have a spawn problem which will be fixed with this update afaik.
I\'m going to the arena and playing tag with the trepors if i actually bother levelling anything, i can handle them from the start :p
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Heh. And it looks like the thread fell off topic again, this time without my help!
Ooh. There are actually supposed to be that many rats? That makes me happy... At least, it will once the update comes and I start playing again. (I haven\'t played for a month or two or so, and it wasn\'t under this name, either, so...)
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Originally posted by DaveG
People will be re-importing their MB characters. Will we start post-wipe with some super rich people from crystal -> tria conversions?
Indeed we will. And I maintain that the crystal transfer was a bad idea. Not because I didn\'t get to hunt > 2 rubies due to crappiness of my computer, but because the crystal hunt was the worst form of grind ever, has been cheated, hacked and bugged beyond all recognition, and also because it was not intended to be kept, just the continous whining made the devs transfer the crystals. Granted, the transfer isn\'t linear, but still.
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turn that frown upside down!
your negativity is dampening my groove man! come one seytra, there must be something your positive about
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Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by DaveG
People will be re-importing their MB characters. Will we start post-wipe with some super rich people from crystal -> tria conversions?
Indeed we will. And I maintain that the crystal transfer was a bad idea.
Ok, then it\'s not just me. I don\'t think a \"wipe\" should allow something to be imported. I\'d suggest some sort of total game-play-time based time award, but then again CB had a few people who just never logged out. (to exploit potions) At this point I say: just wipe everything.
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Ok, then it\'s not just me. I don\'t think a \"wipe\" should allow something to be imported. I\'d suggest some sort of total game-play-time based time award, but then again CB had a few people who just never logged out. (to exploit potions) At this point I say: just wipe everything.
Its easy for you to say just wipe everything, if you dont have a char from MB. Everything is getting wiped, and going back to the way it was at the start of CB / end of MB.
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Its easy for you to say just wipe everything, if you dont have a char from MB.
I did... he just doesn\'t have anything to import, because MB ran like molasses running on a Voodoo graphics card... :P
Besides, as Seytra said, crystals were bugged and exploited just as much as the stuff in CB. It doesn\'t make sense to wipe to fix CB\'s \"exploits, cheaters, and bugged accounts\" yet not MB\'s.
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If I had any good charecters I\'d hate you for this wipe.
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Characters starting off with anything more than the rest will incourage PL. Nutshell.
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I totaly agree with DaveG.
Congratulations for the post!
I also think duelling in plaza should be banned (well if not banned, at least greatly discouraged having guards or something).
And about PL this is my ideea:
You only want to PL without interacting with other ppl? Fine, knock yourself out and play a RPG.
Shurely you won\'t be able to sell your char here for 5000$ ^^
You want to have a balanced experience between RP and levelling? Then play a MMORPG.
I mean why would someone be involved in a game that has ppl in it just to max all stats?
To brag to others how strong he/she is? Well, ad this thread (initialy a wipe thread and now a RP vs PL thread) clearly sugested nobody cares how strong you are.
Or will you progress in order to kill others in duels so you can say \"i showed them\". Then if that is the reason, don\'t forget that here a duel has to be accepted by the chalanged person so your plans might not work.
Besides this i really think there should be more monsters arround (that\'s why i previously asked about if clackers, gobles, grendols etc will be lootable) because that might prevent seiing 10 ppl camping a rat.
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Originally posted by Phobia
If I had any good charecters I\'d hate you for this wipe.
I have a good character (lawfull good :p ) and it is a leveled one too (although i\'m not a powerleveler) and i don\'t hate anybody for the wipe. (ic) The gods got angry with us or had other reasons and made us all week again. There is nothing wrong with that. You will still have the most important thing left (and no god can take that away from you)... friends. And knoledge of the world. Oh and almost forgot, and free drinks at Kada El\'s. So after the wipe get a drink there and i bet the hate will go away ;)
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Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Its easy for you to say just wipe everything, if you dont have a char from MB.
Besides, as Seytra said, crystals were bugged and exploited just as much as the stuff in CB. It doesn\'t make sense to wipe to fix CB\'s \"exploits, cheaters, and bugged accounts\" yet not MB\'s.
If you spent as much time collecting crytals as some people did *cough* fireofsoul *cough*
You would want something out of it. I spent quite a while collecting too. Its just not fair for all those people who played mb to not get anything. CB players knew they would lose everything at the wipe. On the flip side, mb players were told that they would get at least somthing transferred from mb to cb.
Also, there were 2 cheaters in MB, psybur and somone else. Both were banned. There were bugs in mb but nothing to do with crystals.
@Sikarda, we try to stay away from flaming here. You could have easly said the same thing without calling whoever a nutshell. Be nice.
And your statement is totally wrong by the way. The people who played MB only rp\'ed in game, the mb players arn\'t power levelers, period.
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Apologies, I wasn\'t flaming/calling anyone a \'Nutshell , by \'Nutshell\' I meant \'In a Nutshell\' :)
That is great that there are no PLR\'s in MB. But, and yes I am speculating, if there are character/s in the next update with loads of Tria or what-have-you i\'m sure we\'ll hear about it. Hence, I reckon this will induce PL even more.
If \'they\' are as serious about RP as has been discussed, why do they need anything? Lead by example?.
(For arguements sake, I RP, and am, albeit slowly :), creating my own character history and identity).
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
@Sikarda, we try to stay away from flaming here. You could have easly said the same thing without calling whoever a nutshell. Be nice.
I believe he was trying to sum things up \"in a nutshell\". I don\'t think that was intended to be an insult of any kind.
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
CB players knew they would lose everything at the wipe. On the flip side, mb players were told that they would get at least somthing transferred from mb to cb.
MBers became CBers the second CB came out. They knew the wipe was coming just as much as I did.
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Its just not fair for all those people who played mb to not get anything.
Why?... This is a pre-alpha test, and if you\'re not a PLer, why do you need something tangeble? :D
Now, I do agree that some level of seniority-based awards may be a good idea. If you\'ve managed to stick around a while playing AB/MB/CB for a long amount of time, thus contributing to the testing (I hope) and proving your usefulness, you should be rewarded for your efforts by being allowed to skip the menial steps towards advancing to the actual stuff that needs to be tested. (wow... that was a run-on sentace if I ever saw one :P ) I already suggested a game-play time based award of tria, but also noted the flaw with it.
Originally posted by DaveG
I\'d suggest some sort of total game-play time based time award, but then again CB had a few people who just never logged out. (to exploit potions)
However, I wouldn\'t go against this idea, in spite of the small number of (now inactive) people who would accidentally exploit it.
EDIT:
It seems that while I was typing this mess of a reply... Sikarda beat me to half the stuff... :P
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Just before CB, I gave away all my stuff! I do not have any problem with people having played CB not being treated \"fairly\".
On the \"dev\" point of view, I\'d rather make sure that some people test my new features (those that require stats or things therefore money) as soon as possible to get rid of the bugs. (I agree with DaveG on that) If you or me are not part of those poeple, who cares?
We will have fun, get beers at the tavern and if we have to pay for those we will either find a way to get some money or RP for some free one. :D
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I just came back from my holidays and find this news interesting
but...
I hope everything will be done without any problem. I hope for example that there will be enough of time for the migration this time... because one week wasnt enough in my mind... especially during the holiday time
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Originally posted by Malicus
I\'m probably in the extreme minority here, and I\'ll probably get chased out with pitchforks and torches, but I\'m the sort who plays MMORPGs to gain levels and skills and such, sure, but I understand rather well what RP is. I just usually choose to avoid RP in MMORPGs, though I try to avoid disrupting it if I see it going on. Granted, most MMORPGs don\'t exactly have environments that encourage RP, though... I suppose it\'s just unfair to label all of those who are there simply for the mechanics of the game as ignorant of RP...
Actually what should get you run out with a pitchfork is admitting that you aren\'t ignorant of RP and are simply in it for the mechanics of the game. Hey! Where\'s the \"the game is for RP and if you aren\'t one get out\" response?? Oh well, probably further on. You should see the pitchfork holes in my rear! Actually avoiding RP in this game so far has been rather easy. I rarely see it going on, and then usually only by newbies. I\'m attributing that to the Wipe that seems to have been pending since the CB upgrade. We\'ll see what happens after it. I don\'t think of people standing around the Plaza near the GM\'s ignoring the Newbies as they pop into the game and griping about the duels that happen almost nonstop on the Plaza as Role Playing. Then again, I won\'t say it\'s totally nonexistent. If you look in the Guild and Role Playing sections of these forums, they\'re quite active. That\'s not in the game though is it? It\'ll be interesting to see if the Role Players of this RPG MMORPG actually come out after the Wipe, or if they\'re once again only seen in the forums.
The nature of the capabilities and limitations of MMORPGs up to this point have limited RPG play so far IMHO. The advantage that non-computer Role Playing and MUD\'s have over MMORPGs is that the lack of graphics and sophisticated AI\'s force the interaction of human imagination and creativity. Until the technology of MMORPGs reaches the point that allows something to equal this, all P2P MMORPGs eventually dumb down to PL\'ing by most players.
Having said that, this NON-P2P has the best chance of turning into a more MUD-like MMORPG than any P2P, IMHO. Eventually it will reach the point where the Devs bring it out of testing. Since it\'s not ever going P2P, the drive to add content geared solely at adding and/or keeping customers won\'t be the be all and end all of content creation that it is in P2P\'s. Nor will they have to fear losing their \"customer\" base because they decide that something isn\'t working with their goal and they make a massive change to the game to come closer to achieving it.
Elaborate RPG actually does occur in the P2P MMORPGs, and usually done by and creates the most loyal customers. But the appeal of a growing first time user base that at least stays long enough to PL to the limit of the game has driven most of them to add \"expansions\" as fast as possible to access the most profit possible. The tide seems to be turning back with the addition and expansion of quest systems, housing and crafting. We\'ll see. In P2P\'s profit is the bottom line. PS could add all of this and still see the same thing the P2P\'s see; PL\'ers massively outnumber RPG\'ers. It may depend more on the RPG community\'s ability to create content that encourages more newbies to RP than PL. It may take some form of GM that\'s really a Game Master instead of a Rules Moderator. It may be beyond the limitations and nature of MMORPGs at present. At least with PS, there is a very capable testing ground for all theories.
/me Drinks an Ale and rubs his aching head
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Originally posted by Malicus
I\'m probably in the extreme minority here, and I\'ll probably get chased out with pitchforks and torches, but I\'m the sort who plays MMORPGs to gain levels and skills and such, sure, but I understand rather well what RP is. I just usually choose to avoid RP in MMORPGs, though I try to avoid disrupting it if I see it going on. Granted, most MMORPGs don\'t exactly have environments that encourage RP, though... I suppose it\'s just unfair to label all of those who are there simply for the mechanics of the game as ignorant of RP...
Well, since you don\'t try to disrupt RP, then you\'re better in a lot of ways than most. However, the problem I still have with this is that a massive multi-player role-playing game, is a role-playing game, meaning you\'re supposed to, y\'know, role-play...
The other thing that bothers me is, if you\'re not interested in RP, what are you doing in PS? Aren\'t there games that have much more for a leveller to do than PS? PS is like a couple skills and some graphics held together by a setting... Why would anyone who wants to PL even come to PS?
Last on my list of things that bother me is... what\'s the fun in PLing? Is point-and-click really enjoyable for you, or do you just lack the skills to play an FPS or RTS?
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo ...
Its easy for you to say just wipe everything, if you dont have a char from MB. Everything is getting wiped, and going back to the way it was at the start of CB / end of MB.
It is not! I spent hours and hours over days and days PL\'ing a lot of my CB stats to a max of 150! And hunting for the nonexistent 150+ Strength trainer wasn\'t easy either!
oopsie..did I just compare my PL\'ing to MB Crystal hunting and/or Post CB-former MB player Crystal to Trias conversion bug whining?
My bad. :)
/me tries to not spill Ale while ducking and running
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Also, there were 2 cheaters in MB, psybur and somone else. Both were banned. There were bugs in mb but nothing to do with crystals.
There were two who actually got caught. There is absolutely no way to tell how many went uncaught. Furthermore, due to the massive crystal drops, crystal giveaways there is no way to tell how many of the crystals that people have were the results of abusive behaviour.
As for the few who never log out: If online time will ever mean anything, then the amount of these will dramatically rise, and we would need to implement inactivity kicking, which will trigger botting.
Furthermore: there is RP being conducted by non-newbies. It just tends to be in places that are not swamped by newbies who didn\'t bother to even read the website. In fact, I spend most of my time ingame RPing if possible, and I know for a fact that there are others who do the same.
Comparing the MB->CB transition to the wipe isn\'t entirely accurate, though. The transition was more like a massive update than a wipe. And had the crystal hunt had proper security and swift countermeasures, I would have been fine with it even though it was known that it was just implemented to give people something to do, not as part of the game. Therefore, even though it was completely and utterly OOC, had no integration with the setting whatsoever (besides a rather thin statement on the MB website) I would not have opposed it.
@ Demarthl: Well, indeed there are some things that I have positive feelings towards. They just tend to not be implemented yet. *shrugs*
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Originally posted by Seytra
As for the few who never log out: If online time will ever mean anything, then the amount of these will dramatically rise, and we would need to implement inactivity kicking, which will trigger botting.
I agree entirely. I heard much talk about an AFK-booter before, and I think it\'s planned, but I\'m not sure.
@Arkumin Delvrim: You just like to try to spark flame wars, don\'t you? :P And, btw, it took me a sec to realize when you were saying \"P2P\" you meant \"pay-to-play\" and not \"peer-to-peer\"... I just kept thinking, \"PS is most certainly centralized.... WTF?..\"..... :rolleyes: I use only 2 or 3 abbreviations on the forums. Please, just type things... it takes and extra half of a second...
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The server is down...is something up...or is it my terrible computer;)
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http://laanx.fragnetics.com/
Use that page to check the statistics on the left. The report time vs. the actual time. If they are more than a minute apart odds are the server is infact down.
Looks like that happens to be the case. Looks like good news! That may mean that the update is coming!!!
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This is weird....
Players Online
Crystai, Jjairr, Bodacher, Neave, Seavrean, Hivel, Kreggor, Sarelo, Pochier, Klanked, Ayinow, Mudd, Doralla, Ogu, Verrliit, Kasisuki, Cyberlink, Ishmael, Darkind, Frac, Carad, Danok, Platyna, Elzap, Gregore, Coal, Panax,
And the progrm says server fail...
No news on Fragnetics or on the mainserver.
Good thing that there are 2 similar posts, or I would start to hammer my ISP :P
Well, I really hope this is the wipe and I wish the devs good luck in making the transition as fast as possible :)
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As I posted in another thread:
Current Time - Mon Aug 1 15:40:17 SGT 2005
Report Time - Mon Aug 1 13:38:35 2005
No one is in-game at the moment ;)
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\"Players Online
Crystai, Jjairr, Bodacher, Neave, Seavrean, Hivel, Kreggor, Sarelo, Pochier, Klanked, Ayinow, Mudd, Doralla, Ogu, Verrliit, Kasisuki, Cyberlink, Ishmael, Darkind, Frac, Carad, Danok, Platyna, Elzap, Gregore, Coal, Panax...\"
Well, I\'m certainly not online--unless I have a split personality! :)
Pretty sure this is it--though I suppose it could be some routine server maintenance? Seems like they do that pretty consistantly each weekend (right around this time if memory serves correct)--at least the 3 or so weekends this Noob has been on.
Here\'s hoping the \"Catyclism\" is upon us! :)
-----Danok
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/me hides the hammer away and goes to see a movie
Yaaaaay finaly the wipe is here! :D .
Oh, btw, after a chat in plaza we finaly came up with a IC explanation of the wipe. It seems that the Azure Sun Had started emitting Dark Way energy and the first symptoms of being exposed to that are some weird behaviours and increased agresivity ((ooc)ppl had nothing better, or at least found nothing better, to do and there was alot of duelling in plaza lately). Then as the final burst released a big wave of energy we got all killed. But we have good gods in Yliakum and Laanx made us reborn. ((ooc)Also some ppl wanted to change race and there is another explanation for this too). It seems that the tremendous energy released caused some mutations and some reincarnated in another body.
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If it is true then I would like to tell the Devs how much I love them :P . If not disregard the last statement.
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Let\'s hope so. :))
I just noticed something else the wipe will fix:
# of characters: 86498
# or accounts: 111723
This seems a bit off to me... :P I guess these are some of the \"bugged accounts\" they speak of...
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Originally posted by DaveG
Let\'s hope so. :))
I just noticed something else the wipe will fix:
# of characters: 86498
# or accounts: 111723
This seems a bit off to me... :P I guess these are some of the \"bugged accounts\" they speak of...
You would be surprised how many people make an account and then (for some technical or other reason) never succeed in making a character.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Danok
\"Players Online
Crystai, Jjairr, Bodacher, Neave, Seavrean, Hivel, Kreggor, Sarelo, Pochier, Klanked, Ayinow, Mudd, Doralla, Ogu, Verrliit, Kasisuki, Cyberlink, Ishmael, Darkind, Frac, Carad, Danok, Platyna, Elzap, Gregore, Coal, Panax...\"
Been like that for a while now, and server is down. Gonna wait till it\'s up, even if it\'s not the great day. Last time I missed the release of CB by half an hour, plus whatever time I needed to download it, that costed me my name. This time I won\'t miss it.
*Starts repeativly clicking Update and Ping Server buttons*
EDIT: When trying to access the PS main page it says \"Service Unavailable\". They are up to something!!!
EDIT 2: It\'s gone now, no changes...
EDIT 3: Argh, gotta leave my PC for a while, if this is the day then Wipe wait till I am back...if not... Tmed SAVE MY NAME!!!
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if anyone steals any of my names KILL!
better be up before 6 or ill miss it :(
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What nutjob would steal someone\'s name?... I could understand accidental taking of non-unique names, but taking a full unique name? I think it\'s safe to say that if you\'re well known-ish, you could get a GM to whack the moron and take it back.
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yup im all for moron whacking
and john i dont think you can ask to have a name reserved :/
but if it helps you i havent seen any johns in game in ages... but then again it is a very common/popular name so yeah.
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Who\'s going to pick \"John Thazer\" by accident though?...
Origionally posted by John_Thazer
Last time I missed the release of CB by half an hour, plus whatever time I needed to download it, that costed me my name.
You lost John Thazer, or is that what you switched to?
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he lost the john...
but he said hes away so i shall hang in suspense for his reply
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Yes, some ...(won\'t use any bad words here) took John something and then never ever played, well at least he didn\'t when I was online, I had to create Thazer Vice (Thazer being my MB name since you couldn\'t have John Thazer, I thought calling myself just John would be too plain).
I RPed as that character for far too long, I can\'t bear being called something else...Now I won\'t miss it...goes back to clicking \"Update\" \"Ping Server\" buttons.
*Slightly paranoic* It will be mine...yes precious, my precious...it will be ours...yes...
:P
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/me try to hide all his trias hardly earnt...
/me has been seen by Talad (normal : its a god and then he see everything)
/me smile dumbly... whistle... and run away losting everything he had...
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggghhhh!!!
8o
sky is falling down on my head !!!
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Still nothing, argh! Yes, we can wait. (manic laughter) We been waiting for far too long.
The server been off line for too long! This must be the day! Oh devs why do you torture us!? Will be your yet another dark joke!
If today is the day and if I get my name (Drey if you see some non Thazer John, pulvarise him, I\'ll get Tmed on this too :D) then expect me to see me more here. (Yes name thing REALLY matters to me that much :P)
Continues to clicking \"Update\" & \"Ping Server\" buttons!!!
EDIT 1: Some typos corrected.
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/me tryes to remember how long it took for the last big update to be installed.
On the mainsite it said (checking...) \"News! During the weekend we will perform some mainteinance on the PlaneShift server, so you will NOT be able to connect to it during the weekend.\".
Well, the server was down for 2 weeks then.
I guess this time MAY be the same and you will destroy your mouse by clicking update and ping :P
Let\'s be patient and let the devs keep up the GREAT work they\'ve done so far :)
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yeah :D
or we\'re pinging the server to death :))
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Originally posted by Madouc
yeah :D
or we\'re pinging the server to death :))
You will not beat me! I am the master of Update/Ping! I got 600 skills points on it...(another dose of fiendish laughter, I\'m going mad!! Need to calm down)
:D
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........Waiting for Delivery.........
The cardboard box in which I play,
now worn and tattered, tossed away.
A chapter closed, the sun has set.
I write, that I may not forget,
the Wonders found within the walls,
colored with crayon...
Darkness falls.
-----------------------------
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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/me stands in silent appreciation of the Lady Verrliit
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Originally posted by Verrliit
The cardboard box in which I play,
now worn and tattered, tossed away.
A chapter closed, the sun has set.
I write, that I may not forget,
the Wonders found within the walls,
colored with crayon...
Darkness falls.
-----------------------------
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
Great words!
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The Dark Lady never ceases to amaze me. Great words indeed, you have lightened this thread with your darkness :)
PS: update clicking seems contagious. I\'m clicking like mad too now :P
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Something to look at while waiting for update............ lets you see what they have been working on. (for those of you that dont already know this) :)
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=2836&max_rows=25&style=flat&viewmonth=200508&viewday=1
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If you\'re going to look at the mail then http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=2836
is better. Not as easy to read as the history.txt though.
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Or that http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/planeshift/planeshift/docs/history.txt?view=auto
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thanks john that is very easy to read! :)
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No problem, I\'m here to help.
EDIT 1: I\'m off for a food break...:P Update don\'t start without me! (if it ever starts)
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COME ON!!!!!!
I Can\'t wait!!!! This is gonna rule!
I will give them some leeway cause it must take a lot of time to delete all the chars and accounts. ;)
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on http://laanx.fragnetics.com it now says that there is total of 0 Players Online. It is a progress!
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yaay, that means the server has been wiped i guess and now they are installing things so next we will see a dev online testing the server and we are back online :D
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Let\'s hope this is the case. But it still shows all best characters, ie Strength of Gods, Thinkers of the World.
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That thing is being updated more rarely so it will be there for a while (it still showed me as active player on the third place with 8 hours / day even though i was on vacation and didn\'t connect :P )
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Originally posted by John_Thazer with Updates by acraig in The Official: Can\'t log on/Server is Down Topic (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18038&boardid=17)
Q: Oh! I just noticed on http://laanx.fragnetics.com/ it says that 27 players are online! But I still says that server is down! Help!
A: Ah, this is common mistake, the server is not actually up, if you look at the time report has been created you will notice that quite some time passed since. Geberaly if the report time is behind current time by several minutes it means that server is down.
A: I just fixed this. It now returns 0 if the report is more than an hour old.
Yay!... Nice to see this was fixed so fast.
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I\'ve the pleasure to warn you that...
I\'ll be able to play ps with my new computer (AMD 64 s939 3200+ geforce 6600 256Mb pci express SLI RAID SATA 200 Gb + UDMA 133 80Gb Creative SB 24bits 7.1 2x512mb dual RAM DVD RW+ 16x/48x Windows XP familial edition ... hum hum... and Linux debian multiboot (!!!) ANTEC Sonata box and so ones... )
:D
but for now I cant play while Im not at home...
:(
I hope I will see you soon online !
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I hope I will see you soon online !
I will be here.. whenever you get home :D
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How dare you Fken!
Wind0ze on a nice rig like that :evil:
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Windoze family edition? o.O Does it have censored the nude buttons? Or the violence of the Explorer? Maybe it doesn\'t allow murdering (deleting) files, only imprisoning them (recycle.bin)?
Ehehm, it sounds even crappier than the \"home\" edition...
Anyway, as jam says... patience... patience... :D
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my windows release has been bought with my laptop... and of course now Ive only linux under my laptop since 2 or 3 monthes...
I hope MS wont annoy me with the activation or I will be very very angry !
The family edition is a legal release I\'ve... so I wont use a professional one. I need the updates to secure Windows ( :D lol secure windows :D hum hum...) and a cracked release wont be a good thing.
-------------
@Valbrandr:
Believe in me: the sword of MornGlawar will be there too :evil:
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@Dragon: dont worry Debian will be my main os... and qemu my second lol
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@Seytra:
Wont you be able to wait the binary release like each others!!! lol :D
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Well Cherrpow is the only one on the server right now. Is he a dev or GM?
If he is hes obviously testing the new version. So it will be up soon!!11
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no one is on now... we can only wait...
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Windows XP familial edition
........or OSX Tiger!
I just can\'t decide ;)
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By the way they (devs) has been testing server a while ago, cos on http://laanx.fragnetics.com it said that Talad and Xordana (yes Xordana, did I miss something, ie sex change? :P) and another dev team were online.
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Sometimes Xordan forget he is a male...
But thanks to the community he remember quick enough...
MornGlawar: Xordan ?
Xordan: huh?
MornGlawar: you\'re a male do you remember?
Xordan: huh?
MornGlawar: yes... a male...
a dwarf I wont give the name put a rats\' trap on the two... little balls of Xordan
Xordan: Aaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwww
and since that moment Xordan became Xordana
MornGlawar: Xordana ?
Xordana: huh?
MornGlawar: you\'re a female do you remember?
Xordana: huh?
(...)
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Uh... dont forget to erase the sticky or to unstick the thread:
Important: Important: All Characters Will Be Wiped in the Near Future
It would be usefull
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Originally posted by fken
Uh... dont forget to erase the sticky or to unstick the thread:
Important: Important: All Characters Will Be Wiped in the Near Future
It would be usefull
Who said there isn\'t going to be more wipes after these?? :D ;)
Xordan is a male klyros, Xordana is the (sister) klyros, and Xordain is the half brother Klyros :) (Father was a soldier. Probably have other half siblings :P)
And that\'s my happy family ;) (Don\'t ask about the parents. :P)
fken: I can\'t believe you\'re not using a 64-bit OS on that 64-bit PC :P Only using half the CPU tssss.... what a waste :)
Edit: Seems I\'m a bit smiley mad with this post so I\'ll add a few more for luck :D :P :D :P :D (It\'s 2:20 am :P)
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Originally posted by Xordan
Xordan is a male klyros, Xordana is the (sister) klyros, and Xordain is the half brother Klyros :) (Father was a soldier. Probably have other half siblings :P)
Oh my god! what an original family... wit original names...:P
Originally posted by Xordan
fken: I can\'t believe you\'re not using a 64-bit OS on that 64-bit PC :P Only using half the CPU tssss.... what a waste :)
Hey! I dont understand! Debian 64bits will be my main os of course! Windows isnt a real os for me... :P
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off topic: I have a 64bit system too. Only reason I got it is so I would be ready for future upgrades and such. As of right now trying to get anything to work with 64 bit windows or linux is the biggest pain in the @$$. I\'ll stick with my 32 bit OS for just a bit longer.
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Wow this thread is so off topic..
Just like the old days... I love it! :D
*does a little dance*
And I still want my lemurs...
>=(
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Originally posted by John_Thazer
By the way they (devs) has been testing server a while ago, cos on http://laanx.fragnetics.com it said that Talad and Xordana (yes Xordana, did I miss something, ie sex change? :P) and another dev team were online.
Where does it say that?
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http://laanx.fragnetics.com
then click on the character stats button in the box on the left.
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nothing will happen until, im guessing, late tuesday evening now, as most dev\'s are in us time zones, and then have normal jobs too, think its safe to say go to bed, if you just woke up, go to school
:P
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Originally posted by Demarthl
nothing will happen until, im guessing, late tuesday evening now, as most dev\'s are in us time zones, and then have normal jobs too, think its safe to say go to bed, if you just woke up, go to school
:P
I believe that it is Summer Break. No one goes to school unless they:
1. Are Mentally Retarted
2. Summer School
3. Colledge/University
Note: We the community of PlaneShift do not promote put-down against Mentally Retarted. We respect ALL people either normal, or with disabilities. ... Unless if you are a terrorist.
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highlight to me where in any sentence in that post i have descriminated anyone :|
and for oyur information not everywhere mya have broken up for summer holidays yet, yes there are some unfortunate souls
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I\'ve just noticed this:
Time: Tue Aug 2 15:31:27 SGT 2005
Report Time Tue Aug 2 15:31:26 2005
:D this is a good thing, server IS up :D
Edit: No updates though, so i guess we have to wait a bit.
/me goes back to his movie
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i just noticed that too,
do you like my siggie, should i resize it
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do you like my siggie, should i resize it
Ermm...yes? It is a bit TOO big ;)
Edit: and it scares me... But... nice purse :D
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okay, like the sig........ but ummmmm. the server isn\'t up, what do you mean by what you just noticed?
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Yeah if not a Mod will chase you down and take your sig down. So you might as well. They cannot be too big.
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Signature Rules (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8016&boardid=13&styleid=4) - Up to 140 pixels in height, max.
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Originally posted by pigottsm
okay, like the sig........ but ummmmm. the server isn\'t up, what do you mean by what you just noticed?
If ServerTime=ServerReport then ServerISUp
Else ServerISDown
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the server has been active for several hours so far, devs have been going on and off, but it remains \'locked\' as they check what went wrong fix it and run over a few final tests, what for? i dont know, so, behave! or you get no dessert!
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Originally posted by DaveG ...
@Arkumin Delvrim: You just like to try to spark flame wars, don\'t you? :P And, btw, it took me a sec to realize when you were saying \"P2P\" you meant \"pay-to-play\" and not \"peer-to-peer\"... I just kept thinking, \"PS is most certainly centralized.... WTF?..\"..... :rolleyes: I use only 2 or 3 abbreviations on the forums. Please, just type things... it takes and extra half of a second...
Nah if that\'s all I wanted to do I\'d just target individuals and flame them. I like to target whole groups at a time or whole topics..yeah topics get the most ticked off at me for that...I\'m not doing very well tho. DarthPVader had a go at me once but that\'s all...but he was too good for me. I know when to give up a spawn site...
Mostly I\'ve just gotten people who ignore everything else I say and comment on the comment I make about programming or give me a hard time about the acronyms I use. LOL Hey! Those extra half of a seconds add up! Yer lack of specific & subjective syntax knowledge is not my problem. :)
I dunno. \"We\'ll see what happens after the wipe\" is my attitude, and it\'s not a good one for what is trying to be achieved. If I really believe that the game should be more about community than playability, why haven\'t I been involved in the community? Why have I used the wipe as an excuse to PL? And here\'s where I betray the whole PL\'ing \"community\", god does PLing get boring! Problem is, the game doesn\'t seem to be pulling me to the \"good side\" of the force either.
Expecting \"activism\" in a game is a bit much even for me. But I doubt the Devs can program it in either. Maybe a more stable and playable environment will stimulate community growth. Maybe not. But hoping that the game mechanics will get boring to the PL\'ers until they go away leaving just the worthy and elite RPG\'ers is simply another way of hoping that the fall of Rome sweeps out the bad elements there. I don\'t think it worked out that way.
I know. More incomprehensible babbling. Here, talk about this instead: Power Leveling is neither powerful nor leveling but is simply a sign of a desperate geek needing a life. RPG\'ing on the other hand is a sign of one\'s virility. Discuss amongst yourselves.
/me Drinks some more Ale and yawns...
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You guys have no patience!
...
(I can wait as long as I\'m not back at home... :P
...
OMG I just realize I need linux release to be up !!!
8o
...
Quick quick quick!!! The new release need to be up soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
X(
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has anyone else noticed they have gone up by nearly 300
# of characters: 86498
# or accounts: 111723
01.08.2005, 03:50
Report Time Tue Aug 2 22:17:12 2005
Accounts 111988
Characters 86498
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Originally posted by r.guppy
has anyone else noticed they have gone up by nearly 300
# of characters: 86498
# or accounts: 111723
01.08.2005, 03:50
Report Time Tue Aug 2 22:17:12 2005
Accounts 111988
Characters 86498
Ye I noticed that too, some have not yet realised that the Great Wipe is upon us!
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i wonder if the forum will get a new most users online thing after the update is finnished... 758 is a pretty high number to beat though.
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okay, this is gonna sound like a really stupid question, and i think i know the answer to it, but i\'m not sure...........feel free to flame /bash / do whatever to me, i don\'t care
is the wipe going to delete our accounts?
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Originally posted by pigottsm
okay, this is gonna sound like a really stupid question, and i think i know the answer to it, but i\'m not sure...........feel free to flame /bash / do whatever to me, i don\'t care
is the wipe going to delete our accounts?
Actually, now that I think about it, this isn\'t a dumb question. (was going into sarcastic mode :P ) I believe the accounts are being deleted, and not just cleared. I would think they\'d need to, due to all the abandoned accounts lying around anyway.
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How come it is still possible to register a new account when they are all going to be wiped anyway?
I think perhaps it would be a good idea to post a message on the site and cancel account creation until the wipe is complete and the update ready to go.
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Originally posted by Pip
How come it is still possible to register a new account when they are all going to be wiped anyway?
I think perhaps it would be a good idea to post a message on the site and cancel account creation until the wipe is complete and the update ready to go.
Well devs are probably had other things on their mind, and didn\'t think of this. They probably thought, ah it will take only few hours...:D
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Originally posted by pigottsm
okay, this is gonna sound like a really stupid question, and i think i know the answer to it, but i\'m not sure...........feel free to flame /bash / do whatever to me, i don\'t care
is the wipe going to delete our accounts?
The curent characters are incompatible with the new progression system so this is one more reason for them to be deleted entirely.
PS. Read the player\'s guide before creating your new account because it will really help ;)
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oay thanx guys, and one more thing, some people are saying they will start with tria, how is this possiable if they delete the accounts?
edit, hey,
Time: Wed Aug 3 1:03:36 SGT 2005
Report Time Wed Aug 3 01:03:32 2005
Total Online: 2
Accounts 112052
Characters 86500
Net Version 0x0034
Source Date:
someones online, but the server si still down, possiably an dev?
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Originally posted by pigottsm
oay thanx guys, and one more thing, some people are saying they will start with tria, how is this possiable if they delete the accounts?
Ya know... I have no idea... :P The MB to CB import actually had a physical move from one server to another, and migrants brought their characters over, manually. Unless they kept a backup of the MB database... um... good question... :D
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Originally posted by pigottsm
oay thanx guys, and one more thing, some people are saying they will start with tria, how is this possiable if they delete the accounts?
This have been covered in this thread before but here it goes again:
Before the Chrystal Blue release there was the Molecular Blue release.
The migration from MB to CB alowed the players to keep they\'re money. The same migration step will alow characters from MB to start with money.
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Originally posted by Eolius
Originally posted by pigottsm
oay thanx guys, and one more thing, some people are saying they will start with tria, how is this possiable if they delete the accounts?
This have been covered in this thread before but here it goes again:
Before the Chrystal Blue release there was the Molecular Blue release.
The migration from MB to CB alowed the players to keep they\'re money. The same migration step will alow characters from MB to start with money.
Yes, the point is, they\'d need to have the old db lying around somewhere.
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Originally posted by Eolius
The curent characters are incompatible with the new progression system so this is one more reason for them to be deleted entirely.
If the current characters are incompatible, how come the old MB characters can still be \"migrated\"?
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Originally posted by Pip
Originally posted by Eolius
The curent characters are incompatible with the new progression system so this is one more reason for them to be deleted entirely.
If the current characters are incompatible, how come the old MB characters can still be \"migrated\"?
Just the names and the tria they get are stored for migration. You get your money when you register your new account with your old name.
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If the current characters are incompatible, how come the old MB characters can still be \"migrated\"?
I guess it is only an inventory migration, that was the answer i got from a GM when asking this question.
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Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Eolius
Originally posted by pigottsm
oay thanx guys, and one more thing, some people are saying they will start with tria, how is this possiable if they delete the accounts?
This have been covered in this thread before but here it goes again:
Before the Chrystal Blue release there was the Molecular Blue release.
The migration from MB to CB alowed the players to keep they\'re money. The same migration step will alow characters from MB to start with money.
Yes, the point is, they\'d need to have the old db lying around somewhere.
By the sound of it het propably do have it lying around there somewhere in the backseat.
And i also do hope they keep the migration process open for a longer time than a week this time around.
Originally posted by Eolius
If the current characters are incompatible, how come the old MB characters can still be \"migrated\"?
I guess it is only an inventory migration, that was the answer i got from a GM when asking this question.
Well last time it was only an account migration. Only the character name was tansferred.
And a conciderable amount of tria\'s :D and \"the ring of the past \" (or whatever they called it)
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so we will only be able to get tria if we had some from mb?
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Thanks for clearing that up guys.
Now I understand.
I wish us poor CB account holders could migrate too:)
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Originally posted by Eolius
If the current characters are incompatible, how come the old MB characters can still be \"migrated\"?
I guess it is only an inventory migration, that was the answer i got from a GM when asking this question.
During the good MB old time, people used to hunt crystals.
Then when CB came, Crystals were transformed into trias and \"ring of the past\".
The migration will certainly be the same kind of migration.
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well i think its quite wrong myself, allowing people to transfer tria from a game that nobody can play anymore (giving them an advantage) in the game ,since mb was shut down before 2005. a migration of characters sure (but tria?) that just seems a little wrong for everyone else who was not able to play in 04.
Was the same migration done for Atomic Blue to Molecular Blue?
but anyways i just think its wrong to give them tria :).items they can not sell wouldn\'t be so bad.
Ofcourse i doubt any character who played on the mb server would be happy. but its fair isn\'t it? After all i have seen potions,rings and swords migrated along with tria, why can they just (migrate) the account with nothing in it? Us non mb players who have been playing for months may feel cheated or left out :)
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Us MB\'ers were allowed to migrate our players and any crystals or itmes we owned was converted to tria. It was to reward us for all the time we had spent crystal hunting. People didn\'t want all that time to be a waste. So was it fair? Yes it was.
Now that CB is being wiped we are being allowed to start again with what we were given from the MB migration because we had recieved that fairly.
Nothing gained in CB is being migrated because the point of the migration is to fix the unfair advatnages some bugs etc. caused in CB. To migrate those things would give no point to the wipe.
If you werent here in MB then tough luck. You should have found Planeshift sooner like the rest of us.
So fair? Yes I think it is.
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Would dropping weapons be a good idea for some monsters? A newbie would spend less time getting resources and would have a weapon at the start of hte game if lucky. Would that take away from the game though for some people? I like the idea of more stuff dropping since money was hard to come by, but it would be wise to give the weapon dropping to only the stronger monsters would\'nt it? Of course then you would have thousands of newbies following someone asking for them to kill creatures they are too small for or a bunch of handouts. I like the idea of the game easier, but I would not like it handed to me on a silver platter. Half the fun is getting to your goal on whatever you are working on. I also like the idea of starting over. That is what games are all about when you have done most of everything. Accept the fact I do not have any MMORPG knowledge whatsoever before you comment on that.
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Well, it isn\'t fair but it has some fairness :)
It is good to reward oold faithfull players someway.
And...MB was bugged aswell ;) .
And about the tria advantage...
Is it THAT big? I din\'t think so. Actualy you should RP and level along the way. Do you care if a MB char starts with 15k trias more than you? Level a bit and you can balance that advantage in one day. I actualy made 20k in one day because there wasn\'t much going on (that day) and i got stucked killing a rougue ;)
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Originally posted by Shadowfax
If you werent here in MB then tough luck. You should have found Planeshift sooner like the rest of us.
That was very rude.
First of all, I found PS back in AB. My computer just sucked till CB came around.
Secondly, it was pointed out earlier that unfair advantages were around in the crystal hunt, as well.
Thirdly, there are plenty of people that \"didn\'t want all that time to be a waste\" in CB, some of which (like me) don\'t care and agree that it should all be wiped. I don\'t care that MBers will have a few extra thousand tria at start. As Eolius pointed out, that\'s really not that much. What annoys me, is that the re-migration re-rewards MBers while ignoring everyone else. It\'s the principle of the thing.
Fourthly, what\'s the point of doing a wipe, but not wiping everything? How can you claim to be getting rid of unfair advantages, when you intentionally start out with one? Granted, it\'s a pre-alpha test, but it\'s still annoying. Again, it\'s the principle of the thing.
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as anybody noticed someone is online or is that just a dev testing something out
Total Online: 1
ill just try to go online... i cant get online but the person online is talad who i believe is a moderator
more info needed
....sorry bout that ive just come on the forums lately
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Originally posted by Eolius
And...MB was bugged aswell ;) .
Yes that is true but the bugs in MB would let you walk through or climb walls and stuff like that which aren\'t really things that would give people unfair advantages. And there was no skills to earn so you there wasn\'t any bugs that could give you an advantage with those, like a quest you could do over and over. And in CB I think there was also a problem that allowed people to spawn items. So MB\'s wipe was only because of the server change and the new version. CB\'s wipe is because of cheating and unfair advantage caused to bugs etc.
I\'m sure there will be more wipe in the future that will allow migrations. It all depends on the reason for the wipe.
And yea its not that big of an advantage so people not around in MB don\'t have to worry. They can catch up. It is just a reward for those who have been around since MB and had to spend countless hours looking for crystals.
Edit:
Rude? It\'s just the truth.
And the point is it isn\'t really unfair. We worked for those few thousand tria. And yea it sucks that all the time in CB is lost but we are loosing the time we spent in CB too.
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Originally posted by brenard
as anybody noticed someone is online or is that just a dev testing something out
Total Online: 1
ill just try to go online
For the billionth time: Yes, that\'s a dev.
Originally posted by Demarthl
the server has been active for several hours so far, devs have been going on and off, but it remains \'locked\' as they check what went wrong fix it and run over a few final tests, what for? i dont know, so, behave! or you get no dessert!
EDIT:
@Shadowfax: You didn\'t read the rest of the thread... and frankly, I don\'t blame you... :P
Originally posted by Seytra
Originally posted by DaveG
People will be re-importing their MB characters. Will we start post-wipe with some super rich people from crystal -> tria conversions?
Indeed we will. And I maintain that the crystal transfer was a bad idea. Not because I didn\'t get to hunt > 2 rubies due to crappiness of my computer, but because the crystal hunt was the worst form of grind ever, has been cheated, hacked and bugged beyond all recognition, and also because it was not intended to be kept, just the continous whining made the devs transfer the crystals. Granted, the transfer isn\'t linear, but still.
Ya know... this thread is going in circles now... :rolleyes:
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Lol yea I think the Devs should just put their foot down and wipe the whole thing and just let the oldbies have their rings of the past so their can prove they were there way back when as they like to do. This community is so divided on every issue. I kinda feel bad for the Devs they ca\'t do anything with out a fight. People should respect the Devs decisions since they are the ones making the game and not fight them on everything they do.
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Originally posted by Shadowfax
Lol yea I think the Devs should just put their foot down and wipe the whole thing and just let the oldbies have their rings of the past so their can prove they were there way back when as they like to do. This community is so divided on every issue. I kinda feel bad for the Devs they ca\'t do anything with out a fight. People should respect the Devs decisions since they are the ones making the game and not fight them on everything they do.
I agree entirely.
PS has a community that wants to contribute to it, more or less. There\'s nothing wrong with a little constructive debate, now and again. But yeah, after decisions are made people just need to accept it and move on... probably to the next debate... :P
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I (as being an \'oldbie\' or whatever) don\'t care for christal->tria conversion, but i would like to continue to play my character and a rememberance would be nice (aka \'the ring of the past\').
So that\'s why i think the migration should happen.
By the way, why shouldn\'t they let people migrate manually from the current CB database?
This would also get rid of non-used accounts.
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Originally posted by Madouc
By the way, why shouldn\'t they let people migrate manually from the current CB database?
Too much stuff is FUBARed... to many people with money/items from exploits... people with level 200 in Red Way from dark red potions... glitched characters from the broken character creation stuff... etc... etc... etc...
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Originally posted by Sindar
well i think its quite wrong myself, allowing people to transfer tria from a game that nobody can play anymore (giving them an advantage) in the game ,since mb was shut down before 2005. a migration of characters sure (but tria?) that just seems a little wrong for everyone else who was not able to play in 04.
Was the same migration done for Atomic Blue to Molecular Blue?
but anyways i just think its wrong to give them tria :).items they can not sell wouldn\'t be so bad.
Ofcourse i doubt any character who played on the mb server would be happy. but its fair isn\'t it? After all i have seen potions,rings and swords migrated along with tria, why can they just (migrate) the account with nothing in it? Us non mb players who have been playing for months may feel cheated or left out :)
a lot of people from MB are those who gave weapons to newbees in Hyddla... I dont think it would be unfair to give to the old member of the ps commubity something for their patience...
I dont think you have a clue of how much time MB\'s players had to wait to see CB... And it depends on the amount of crystals you fund...
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a lot of people from MB are those who gave weapons to newbees in Hyddla... I dont think it would be unfair to give to the old member of the ps commubity something for their patience... I dont think you have a clue of how much time MB\'s players had to wait to see CB... And it depends on the amount of crystals you fund...
Not only them gave weappons to newbies, i gave some too but i found out eventualy that it isn\'t such a great ideea since 60% of those newbies didn\'t returned. :(
Edit : For those who think that having some trias will put some people in front of others let me tell you this thing:
Are money the most important advantage? Think about knoledge of the world... That is a big advantage. And no wipe can take that away.
So old players always start with an advantage.
That is not bad, it is only normal.
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My first day in game i was given a sword & shield and showed the ropes. It was very helpfull and the other 40% who stayed appreciated and prob returned the favor.
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okay, i hate to argue with you on this point, but on my first day, i killed over a hundred rats. i never got a sword/axe.
i had to work for every tria.
i have trained many noobs, only two have stayed. it kinda makes me think it\'s not worth it when i put a thound tria into three guys and only one stays, what do you guys thing=k
(yes i realixe this probably makes no sense)
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Well Piggy, Sometimes \"noobs\" aren\'t very appreciative but chances are, if they attmpt to roleplay, they\'ll be okay. And you shouldn\'t take it as \"training\" but as sharing your knowledge. And there\'s no need to give them lots of money if you aren\'t exceedingly rich yourself;)
Plus, if they leave....we don\'t want them!
Anyway, still try, even if it isn\'t rewarding.
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The thing is like this:
Newbie says: How do i get a sword?
Eolius says: Oh, easy, have this one :)
Newbie says: Oh, cool, ty :)
Eolius says: Yw my frend.
Newbie says: Now what?
Eolius says: Well, you have to train sword in order to get the best out of this weappon.
Newbie says: Oh?
Eolius says: Follow me to the sewers and we can kill some rats there.
Newbie says: Oh, ok, how many do i have to kill?
Eolius says: Arround 100 for one point of training, you see, not the money will be the problem but the pp
Newbie says: 100 rats? woow, that will be loong and getting a sword was so easy.
........................1 hour passes...........................
Newbie thinks: dang! i\'m bored, i get a weappon and i have to kill 100 rats to train it
*Newbie logs out*
I really think that one can help somebody better with advices and guidance than with a weappon that is useless anyway because you do low damage without training. (that doesn\'t mean that i changed my habit of giving stuff away :P)
Edit: 60% of the people i gave a weappon left.
NONE of those i took on a tour of the world (took them to Ojaveda, ruins, hills, etc..) left.
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Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Madouc
By the way, why shouldn\'t they let people migrate manually from the current CB database?
Too much stuff is FUBARed... to many people with money/items from exploits... people with level 200 in Red Way from dark red potions... glitched characters from the broken character creation stuff... etc... etc... etc...
don\'t get me wrong, i mean just the basic character, not the stats, items or money.
or just character names.. that should get rid of bugged characters
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Can one of the devs please post to tell how the update is going. Are there any problems or is it going smoothly?
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They probably won\'t post anything...:P The only official word from devs came in form of acraig editing my thread (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18038&boardid=17&sid=da1b743296628257ef403ea51494b303&page=1)
The blue bit in first post is by acraig.
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Originally posted by Madouc
Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Madouc
By the way, why shouldn\'t they let people migrate manually from the current CB database?
Too much stuff is FUBARed... to many people with money/items from exploits... people with level 200 in Red Way from dark red potions... glitched characters from the broken character creation stuff... etc... etc... etc...
don\'t get me wrong, i mean just the basic character, not the stats, items or money.
or just character names.. that should get rid of bugged characters
You can just re-register your name. It\'s not likely to go anywhere... I hope...
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Originally posted by Eolius
I really think that one can help somebody better with advices and guidance than with a weappon that is useless anyway because you do low damage without training. (that doesn\'t mean that i changed my habit of giving stuff away :P)
Edit: 60% of the people i gave a weappon left.
NONE of those i took on a tour of the world (took them to Ojaveda, ruins, hills, etc..) left.
Eolius: even though it brings me great joy to see people helping out newbies, i belive that giving anything away other than knowledge is not a good thing in the long run. even giving away too much knowledge is something that may ultimately work against a newcomer.
its kinda similar to why you can\'t feed a baby tiger by a bottle, and then let it out in the wild.. it won\'t survive.. so when you give the sword away to a newbie and then explain the training situation.. they feel they have nothing to work towards.. whereas, if you tell the newbie to head to the sewers, and point them in the right direction, they will kill rats, and work their way to earning a weapon.. this provides them with a much more gratifying feeling rather than if you gave them the weapon right off the bat..
and anyways... if anyone comes to this game, realizes it takes hard work to train, and leaves.. well i say good riddance.. they probably wouldn\'t contribute much to Planeshift anyway.
i don\'t know.. just wanted to put my two cents in. what you do is a good thing. and id rather you give away a weapon, than spam duel/invite the newbie as soon as they arrive...
-Easton
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He\'s (Eolius) right. Ogu filled in and gave me a tour, and I was so impressed I invited a new friend into the game so he could see it too.
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i had to work for every tria.
I salute you...You are a true player of PS...Now only if you stopped whining and came over on IRC :D
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and then if you would like to belong to the real community start to laugh at the newbees...
You\'ll see it\'s easy to do :]
Im kidding Im kidding !!! dont hit ! :))
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YAY!!!! WIPE HAPPENED!!!
Only 5 chars registered!!!!!!!
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MAYBE THIS MEANS THE SERVER WILL BECOME UNLOCKED SOON, I SURE HOPE IT DOES, NO MORE CHARACTERS
EDIT: sorry, didn\'t realixe caps where on :P
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Originally posted by Snobaste
Only 5 chars registered!!!!!!!
but all the accounts are still there :(
/me holding on to yay!!!! very tightly just in case it escapes and devours the world in mad orgy of destruction....
sorry getting a little punch drunk
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Yes... odd... they DIDN\'T delete the accounts... Maybe they will, or it\'s a glitch?... ?(
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well, they said they where wiping to get rid of bugged accounts, didin\'t they??
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Originally posted by fken and then if you would like to belong to the real community start to laugh at the newbees... You\'ll see it\'s easy to do :] Im kidding Im kidding !!! dont hit ! :))
Talamir whacks fken with a huge wooden sword [size=20] *SPLAT* [/size]
Oops...
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^^ this post confuses me, please explain^^
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See he told someone to make fun of noobs..and then said he was kidding and told us not to hit him..so I hit him. And accidentally mashed him in 100000 trillion liquidy peices.
Sorry Fken, I forgot I had a good arm :(
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oh, thanks for clearing that up.
anyway back on target it said in the stickied post (don\'t know how to link so leave me alone) at the beging of this forum that they are trying to keep guilds.
just thought i\'d bring that up
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Originally posted by fken and then if you would like to belong to the real community start to laugh at the newbees... You\'ll see it\'s easy to do Im kidding Im kidding !!! dont hit !
/me was about to take 2 carp fishes out of the bag and hit fken but changes his mind
Umm... i hit deadly with those :)
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So the servers are currently down atm, can you guys give us date for when the game will be up and all clean and brand spanking new :D?
(btw i\'m a fooking newby- so glad i\'m in tiem for a major wipe XD)
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Originally posted by Ochimu
So the servers are currently down atm, can you guys give us date for when the game will be up and all clean and brand spanking new :D?
(btw i\'m a fooking newby- so glad i\'m in tiem for a major wipe XD)
If you are asking for a date when things are ready then surely you are a newby :-)
It is ready when it is ready. You will know it.
Greetings,
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hmmm the databases are sweeped but no update for us so would look for it tomorrow or later today ;)
Would guess tomorrow or the day after that we can get back on. Don\'t believe guilds can be kept seeing it doesn\'t look like characters are kept. Can hardly keep a guild if there are no people to be in it ;)
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/me equip his two long sword and cut Talamir and Eolius\'s arms...
now they will be calmer...
I\'m wondering if... no... I must be sure !
/me cut their legs too
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Let\'s keep the spam down here, please. Talad made this thread after all, so it\'s not very smart. :) Use this thread for discussion on the Update and related matters only.
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so I learnt there will still be a guild wipe with guildcreation fees after...
is it true? if yes: why? if because of the number of the guildcreations: why does it annoy you?
And do you think it\'s realistic to pay a big fee for the creation of a guild?
AND
subsidiary question: How many others wipes will comes?
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Originally posted by fken
so I learnt there will still be a guild wipe with guildcreation fees after...
is it true? if yes: why? if because of the number of the guildcreations: why does it annoy you?
PS will always be free in ALL respects. That includes guild creation.
Greetings,
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Quote:Originally posted by fken
so I learnt there will still be a guild wipe with guildcreation fees after...
is it true? if yes: why? if because of the number of the guildcreations: why does it annoy you?
PS will always be free in ALL respects. That includes guild creation.
Greetings,
Maybe he meant fee as in a fee in tria.
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hum yeah jorrit, I was saying trias fees... :D lol
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fken: 8o Debian
*hisssssss* *booooooooo*
Gentoo is much better for 64-bit PC\'s :)
And everyone is welcome to donate real money to me for guilds if they wish :P
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Originally posted by jorrit
Originally posted by fken
so I learnt there will still be a guild wipe with guildcreation fees after...
is it true? if yes: why? if because of the number of the guildcreations: why does it annoy you?
PS will always be free in ALL respects. That includes guild creation.
Greetings,
LOL to that :D
I\'m sure jorrit\'s just jokeing around, he made it sound as if he thought you were talking about real money...smart one jorrit ;)
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@xordan : never tried, never had time, I am satisfied by debian for now and like the debian community !
be careful... your cpu could find the atmosphere too hot if you try to make money with ps... :rolleyes: :)) :rolleyes:
but you can answer to the questions I asked too...
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Xordan said in a previous thread that guild creation fee will cost 20000 multiplied by a number 5 through 10. I dunno if he was kidding...but thats a hell of a lot of trias...
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game master guild better get hella discount on that, otherwise we will have to be freelance adminers or somthing :/
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Originally posted by Drey
game master guild better get hella discount on that, otherwise we will have to be freelance adminers or somthing :/
Nah, it\'s 50 through to 100 times for game masters ;) :P
Xordan said in a previous thread that guild creation fee will cost 20000 multiplied by a number 5 through 10. I dunno if he was kidding...but thats a hell of a lot of trias...
It\'s only a lot for one person. And that\'s a guess. I haven\'t decided what fees or other requirements will be. :) And they won\'t be introduced for a few months I guess.
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doooeeeet nooooow XD
Game masters dont care what the price is to make the game master guild, we\'ll just magically make some circles ;)
of course we wont be doing the same for our IC guilds, thats just pathetic cheating
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if their is a guild creation fee, well start seeing guilds that charge money to enter. i really don\'t like that idea
example ( you are really good, whould you like to join -------?
\"yay, i\'d love to.\" that\'ll be 5 circles)lol, kinda stupid don\'t you think?
EDIT: i\'ve also seen some people talking about houses. maybe the fee gives the guild a house, and maybe is payable over time
example: the guild must pay 1000 a week for 4 months or their house gets foreclosed and resold
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Could lead to another ingame job...repo man. :P
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if a guild charges money for membership, then i would guess that that specific guild would not last too long..
maybe a suggested donation now and then, but anything completely required seems.. i don\'t know the word.. useless, stupid, lame, worthless, idiotic- take your pick...
-Easton
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my point exactly easton, although i whould not mind helpign pay for my guild\'s house, i whould nto want them to require it
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indeed.. a guild is something that all members should feel apart of, and therefore, wish to help. because they should know that if they help the guild, they are indirectly helping themselves and all other people associated with that guild..
some guilds have a problem with this..
-Easton
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I never liked the idea of mandatory Guild dues. In some games, guilds are charged for things like housing, furniture,etc., and I never minded pitching in voluntarily for things like that. Hey that\'s a fun way to compete with your Guild mates in fact! Braggin rights and all that. But mandatory fee guilds never appealed to me. Personal choice tho.
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Originally posted by fken
so I learnt there will still be a guild wipe with guildcreation fees after...
is it true? if yes: why? if because of the number of the guildcreations: why does it annoy you?
It is obaviously annoying for several reasons:
1) Thge large number of guilds created by completely uninformed people. These are most often completely OOC and don\'t even fit the setting.
2) The large number of guilds that die within a few days. These mostly are like the above, but also can be founded by people who got informed on the game but not on what it takes (and means) to have a guild. The fee would serve a sintroductionary example. If they manage to get the money, this means that they at least have some dedication.
3) It\'s not realistic that almost everyone is in a guild AFAIK. Also, the high number of guilds is not really realistic.
Originally posted by fken
And do you think it\'s realistic to pay a big fee for the creation of a guild?
Yes. You don\'t just found some big organization IRL, too. It does take money, administrative work (possibly inclusing fees), a base of operation, etc.. This all costs money and work, something that isn\'t reflected in the simply way to create a guild in PS.
So the way it IMO should go is that a would-be guild forms informally due to whatever reasons, and eventually decide to pony up the necessary fee. Once they officially founded the guild by paing the fee, they can obviously set the policy for joining. Some may require a mandatory fee, some ask for something based on the chars possessions, some may ask for donations, some not at all or non-monetary things.
When someone wants to join a guild, they usually should have good reasons to do so, and these would usually provide sufficient incentive to help out. If not, the potential member would not really be of benefit to the guild, anyway.
I, too, don\'t like recurring fees, but it would be at the guilds discretion IMO.
As for how many wipes there will be... several, I\'d say, but they probably will be years apart AFAICS.
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yes, but their is no central government in planeshift to pay the fees to??????????? where do they go, the church?
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Firstly: Get yourself informed. There is government. :tdown:
Secondly: one question mark would have sufficed quite nicely.
Thirdly, even without a government, you woulkd obviously still have to pay for other people\'s services and for items and ground.
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I agree with Seytra completly, there are probably alot of guilds that don\'t even last a couple of days, and if you cough up the thria then that shows dedication to keeping it and striving to make it better.Not just some guild that has like 2 people and breaks apart after like 2 days.
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i\'m completly lost. what is this central government, i\'ve played for quite a while and never heard of them. please fill me in
Note, one questionmark whould have worked, my key was jammed and i didn\'t notice it till you said some thing :P
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Originally posted by pigottsm
i\'m completly lost. what is this central government, i\'ve played for quite a while and never heard of them. please fill me in
I\'m inclined to believe that this encompasses only a few days, but whatever. There is a website to PS, and at this website is a background section, labelled \"Story\", within which you find this: Government (http://www.planeshift.it/setting_government.html).
So you are saying you played for more than one day without reading about where you are?
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My ideas are not to just have \"Pay X tria and get a guild\". Imo that really sucks. The system will be good, fun, (original :) ) and will fit in with the PS setting very nicely. I have already solved all the questions/problems in this thread in a way which everbody except a powergamer will like. I hope that it will get some large \'core\' guilds running, instead of having 100000 small guilds running around everywhere. :)
You\'ll find out more about it when it\'s approved and implemented. You don\'t have to worry about it for now anyway. Just make your guilds as normal, the changes won\'t make you have to remake the guilds again (I hope) when they\'re done. One suggestion I will make is that you try and form up into more organized, structured guilds with good rp backgrounds, or things will become not so easy in the future. Oh, and mass recruiting isn\'t a good thing to do :) It will be to a guilds advantage to have less good members rather than hundreds of non-active, or bad members.
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1) @Xordan: I hope you will find something cool and fun enough that wont bore me...
but
1.1) you will annoy every little guild like mine or like explorers guild
1.2) like pigottsm said you will another time heard people speaking about money and please please please Im listening this peanut word everytime IRL please let this peanut word outside my hobby!!!
2) @pigottsm: it is incredibly hard to understand you...
You said you didnt want to see people saying \"if you wanna belong to our guild you will have to pay\" but there is no problem if there were fees to pay each 4 monthes... Im lost... What\'s the difference? Are you thinking that there wont be any problem for the guildmaster to pay instead of every inactive members???
Anyway, if the price of pterosaur or houses are too high there will be money required by every members...
3) (the most interesting!) @Seytra: another extremist point of view: you are forcig people to think like you.
THE ONLY Interesting argument would be to say something like too many guild is polluting server memory... but it\'s the only argument you didnt wrote.
If I read what you said I am wondering if you arent simply jealous of others way of life because they are able to do what they wanna do and you not.
What\'s the problem when you see people creating a future dead guild? This guild will stop alone.
But in fact you wanna show newbees that you are someone important and they arent... it\'s the only reason I am understanding in your argumentation.
By the way I must admit I thought like you that it was a problem all these guys who create guilds without following the rules but... I understood there are things more important than this fact and really... it was stupid...
You said it was realistic to pay a fees for belonging to a guild...
First it\'s wrong because in middleage people groups them only in regards with their ideas
Then, I belong to the Debian community and I never paid fees for it... so it\'s still possible today...
4) @Xordan: I think you dont need to force people to pay for creating a guild because thanks to the future possibility to buy a guildhouse everyone will be able to understand wich guild is good and which one isnt: Only active guilds with acitve players will be able to buy a house... so where is the problem?
However if you earn a house when you create a guild I cant be against...
Dont forget some people like me worked hard to build their own guild. Adding fees could ruin my works... It wont be fair.
And... it would be nice if there were some collect box in guildhouse that only the guildmaster or some important members can open... dont you think?
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It will be to a guilds advantage to have less good members rather than hundreds of non-active, or bad members.
We\'re saved I say!! Saved!
(We plan to have no more than 15-17 elite members at full capacity)
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fken: Don\'t worry, I\'ve already thought about all that. :)
You people think too much about tria and don\'t read what I say. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by fken
3) (the most interesting!) @Seytra: another extremist point of view: you are forcig people to think like you.
First of all this is the second tiome you speak of my views as being \"extremist\" while they in fact are moderate. I see nothing extremist with what I posted on this topic, so I must assume that since you dislike what I said you try to label it \"extremist\" in order to discourage people to agree with it.
Originally posted by fken
THE ONLY Interesting argument would be to say something like too many guild is polluting server memory... but it\'s the only argument you didnt wrote.
Because it has been stated several times that memory isn\'t an issue ATM.
Originally posted by fken
If I read what you said I am wondering if you arent simply jealous of others way of life because they are able to do what they wanna do and you not.
I can only laugh at that.
Originally posted by fken
What\'s the problem when you see people creating a future dead guild? This guild will stop alone.
Well, the problem is (or should be) obvious: they make guilds look like a matter of having an additional line of text under the chars name. A guild is serious business, and they are diluting it\'s importance. A guild is more than a random bunch of people. Just like IRL, you don\'t just meet a few friends and call yourself a guild, or anything beyond friends.
Originally posted by fken
But in fact you wanna show newbees that you are someone important and they arent... it\'s the only reason I am understanding in your argumentation.
Well, it is quite obvious that you have no idea what I am talking about.
Originally posted by fken
By the way I must admit I thought like you that it was a problem all these guys who create guilds without following the rules but... I understood there are things more important than this fact and really... it was stupid...
Did I ever say that it is the most important thing? No, because it isn\'t. However, you cannot only care about the most important things, because otherwise the less important things become hell eventually.
Originally posted by fken
You said it was realistic to pay a fees for belonging to a guild...
First it\'s wrong because in middleage people groups them only in regards with their ideas
Were these guilds? No, they were not. A guild is an organization that aims to protect and dominate a sector of economy. They also provide financial and other services, so they require money or other fees from their members.
Originally posted by fken
Then, I belong to the Debian community and I never paid fees for it... so it\'s still possible today...
And that proves exactly what? Debian is a nonprofit organization, so they are not required to pay taxes and such. Also, they do still need donations. I honestly don\'t think Debian compares to a guild.
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YOU GOT TOLDDDDDDD! No offense to any of you, im not taking anyones side just thought i would say that ;).
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This is really going to be an very interesting Thread.
Should something that people can do or join on their own free will cost money?
Why not, because you receive something for it! The Game offers special functionalities to Guilds.
If it\'s just about a bunch of Friends, meeting here and there, standing for something, the buddy-list do as well.
I\'m really not sure where i\'m standing here, but i really think, that we all should google the terms \"Guild\" and \"Community\".
I like the second one more, but we\'re all Individuals, so.....
..., all i can say is : \" Even if you\'re not in a Guild, you\'re part of the Community....if you want!\"
regards, peace, love and one more ale for me , please......
backeroo
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Make that 2 ;)
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Seytra : I called extremist point of view the fact you want rules which will decrease freedom of players just because you dont like somethinng which only concern other people (not you)
You say people create guilds ... guild are serious business ... the must pay fees...
but
if someone create a guild it dont interfers with your life (irl or ic !)
so
In my mind, this way of thinking is like the way of thinking of some american who think some s e x position must be forbidden or the fact that there is no more TV direct because some guys were shocked to see Janet\'s tits...
When I said extremist point of view... first it was the third time I told that to you (not the second time) and moreover it was because you know what\'s good for us etter than us (like a big superior mind) and wanna interfer in my freedom (not especially me but I am individual like eah other :D ). I despise this kind of reaction
Were Robin\'s hood friends forced to pay a fees? it\'s just an example... I m not sure it is the best... if you wanna say it\'s not a guild I would like to know its name and then ask to xordan to implement it into the game...
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@Xordan: thats absolutly not what annoy me, you are wrong, I dont think only about trias! I just think I dislike the idea of beeing forced to come and play: then it would not be nice game for me but something I would be forced to do. no more enjoying...
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I have talked to people wanting to start a guild, and they had no clue when I asked what kind of people that they would like to bring together.
In my mind, beyond that aspect. A guild should have some direction they want to take the community in. Am I wrong? (note: this is my first MMORPG)
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Fees, fees, fess, stop thinking about trias, there other, more important things to think and take care of.
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freedom for example !!!
ie: freedom to not pay any fees :P
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For real just stop argueing about this, just let it go.;)
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how did i miss the government? thanks for filling me in
what i was saying is the guild should pay for the house, not the members, they can hold fundraising hunts and stuff, where all proceeds go to the guild, or offer their services for people in exchange for tria, such as their smithing skills. etc, they don\'t have to charge their members
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Thats an excellent idea, but donations are always welcome ;).
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@ fken: I am perfectly aware that you called me extremist three times. :rolleyes: However I was saying that it was unjustified in two cases, thereby implying that the third case might be justified.
As for your interpretation of what \"extremist\" means: this is obviously flawed, to put it mildly. An extremist has extreme views (edit: like \"black and white with no shades inbetween\" /edit), not views on things that don\'t concern them which, on top of it, is something you cannot even know of me.
Also, what makes you think that the mere fact that you are leading a guild makes you any more qualified to comment on it than anyone else? How dare you assume that I necessarily have no idea about it or that it does not concern me for the mere fact that you know of no guild I am in or leading?
In fact, what you are saying is that you don\'t want any restriction for guilds because you fear that your guild might not be feasible anymore. In order to reach that goal, you completely and utterly ignore the negative consequences that not having restrictions has. This is quite irresponsible of you, and this is despisable IMNSHO. :tdown:
Yes, I am proposing to take some freedoms away: the freedom to abuse the game by making pointless guilds. Guess what? The game already has rules, like any other game, yet you don\'t oppose these, while they surely also take freedoms away! And why is that? Because without rules, it would be impossible to actually define what the game is! And another thing that might not have crossed your mind yet: the fact that there are myriads of pointless, soon dead or otherwise unacceptible guilds proves that there needs to be some rule to reduce that, because obviously self-management doesn\'t work (duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!).
To say that everything must be allowed just because then everyone has absolute \"freedom\" is idiocy IMO. Edit: Oh, and it is an extremist view. /Edit
Not to mention that guilds naturally affect everyone, not just people in other guilds. They affect me by appearing in RP, and by appearing on the screen, so don\'t tell me they don\'t affect me.
Edit: As for Robin Hood: This hardly is a guild. But yes, they were forced to pay. Not by money, but by service. They provided the ganag with supplies, for example, and manpower, and those were even recurring fees, contrary to the one-time registration fee!
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let it go, let\'s discuss something else
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@pigottsm: i dont want to change the subject now
@Seytra:
As for your interpretation of what \"extremist\" means: this is obviously flawed, to put it mildly. An extremist has extreme views (edit: like \"black and white with no shades inbetween\" /edit), not views on things that don\'t concern them which, on top of it, is something you cannot even know of me.
I dont said it was my definition of extremism: I just said I find your behaviour extremist
Also, what makes you think that the mere fact that you are leading a guild makes you any more qualified to comment on it than anyone else? How dare you assume that I necessarily have no idea about it or that it does not concern me for the mere fact that you know of no guild I am in or leading?
I never said that / never even thought that
Ive no clue of your guildss name and it\'s not concerning the subject. I spoke about my guild to Xordan because, my guild is a little old guild (in 2-3 monthes we will have our birthday!).
Anyway, guild leader or not, if playing ps interfers with my irl life too much I\'ll have to disband or let ps down.
So dont interprete my arguments in the wrong way...
In fact, what you are saying is that you don\'t want any restriction for guilds because you fear that your guild might not be feasible anymore. In order to reach that goal, you completely and utterly ignore the negative consequences that not having restrictions has. This is quite irresponsible of you, and this is despisable
I never said that / never even thought that
And if it\'s impossible to keep my guild I would disband (after some monthes of work like website programmation and so one...)
IMNSHO
Translation required!
Yes, I am proposing to take some freedoms away: the freedom to abuse the game by making pointless guilds. Guess what? The game already has rules, like any other game, yet you don\'t oppose these, while they surely also take freedoms away! And why is that? Because without rules, it would be impossible to actually define what the game is! And another thing that might not have crossed your mind yet: the fact that there are myriads of pointless, soon dead or otherwise unacceptible guilds proves that there needs to be some rule to reduce that, because obviously self-management doesn\'t work.
I know the rules. I already had that kind of discussion and even I will tell you a secret I was defending your point of view... but really now Im really wondering why people would have to wage a war to that pointless guild creations. Do you think a pointless guild will have a chance in comparaison with a guild which has a house and 3pterausors ??? off course its a kind of fee which allow people to show to the others they have a guild! but it\'s not a real restriction! like yours...
One question: how about others languages guilds? The main problem I meet on internet with american or english people is that they often forget their language isnt the only one of the Earth. if a serbian come to Yliakum and try to create a real guild under ps but only have 6 members for now... if there were a retrictions like having 10members minimum, it would be impossible to create the guild even if the serbian guild leader would find the 4 other members in the next 2 or 3 monthes... and 2 or 3 mothes after... where are the first 6 others members?
I know that especially because my guild is a french guild of 14members. I dont want to accept everyone without knowing them because I personaly respect the ps rules and I know I must represent my members and be responsible of them... Now you are right I quote my guildleading experience in example
(duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!)
is it the explorers guild which said there were only 9 places max in their guild-like groups? (not sure... but it was an old guild for sure)
To say that everything must be allowed just because then everyone has absolute \"freedom\" is idiocy IMO. Edit: Oh, and it is an extremist view. /Edit
That idea is an anarchical idea... not mine sorry. Dont go to the ... extrem :D
Not to mention that guilds naturally affect everyone, not just people in other guilds. They affect me by appearing in RP, and by appearing on the screen, so don\'t tell me they don\'t affect me.
wahou !!! but why are you affected??? eh! if you look a guy who love another guy, would you feel affected?? if you look a guy who buy a better computer than yours, would you feel affected?? if your neighbourg fu ck with another girl than his wife, would you feel affected? if your neighbourg choose to live during the night without annoying you, would you feel affected? If you are affected by things that dont concern you it\'s maybe the day to look for a psy...
Edit: As for Robin Hood: This hardly is a guild. But yes, they were forced to pay. Not by money, but by service.
With that, Im ok! And it\'s normal. In a group if someone dont work the others would let him down.
But retrning to the case of Robin Hood, if someone e\'xternal would have been there to say \"eh! Brother Tuck isnt prductive enough he must be banned!\" Im sure the entire guild would have find another guy to steal :D
So I think everythings will be more realistic thanks to the guildhouses... and if you are annoyed to rping my advice is the following : option -> dont display guildname... because Im sorry but even if MornGlawar is the guildleader of Edhelgarth, It\'s not written on his face so if you wanna be rp, be rp entirely and dont display the guildname : simply ask it like a good roleplayer !
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If so then let\'s keep it in the game. No more web page/ outside rule impacting formation?
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thank you neme5i5! I forgot one point, the one which is the biggest problem of the psointless guild: they have no website or useless one : the new members understand easily that their guild isnt very very good and lt it to go in the more official ones... so it\'s something important irl. And with the houses it will be more important because houses are irl.
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/me just realized that I\'m the only one who has something to do during the day... :rolleyes:
I agree with Seytra on the subject of guild fees. There are too many idiot guilds, and too many guilds, period. A creation fee is desperately needed. Just 1000 tria or so would be fine. Additional, there should be a member minimum of 5 to 10 people. Any fewer for more than a week, and the guild is automatically disbanded. After that, I think there should be a game-play time requirement. If too many of the members go inactive, the guild is automatically disbanded. Manual disbanding would refund the fee, but not imploding due to members quiting PS. (just kick inactive out of the guild)
Dues should be an option to build up guild funds, but not to pay to the government.
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Originally posted by fken
I dont said it was my definition of extremism: I just said I find your behaviour extremist
I see.
Originally posted by fken
Anyway, guild leader or not, if playing ps interfers with my irl life too much I\'ll have to disband or let ps down.
So dont interprete my arguments in the wrong way...
So you were saying that maintaining a guild must not require a tremendous lot of work besides the actual guild matters? Geez, I obviously completely misunderstood your intentions, then, sorry! Obviously I agree in this case. A one-time effort would be bearable IMO, though.
Originally posted by fken
IMNSHO
Translation required!
It\'s a common internet acronym and stands for \"In My Not So Humble Opinion\".
Originally posted by fken
One question: how about others languages guilds? The main problem I meet on internet with american or english people is that they often forget their language isnt the only one of the Earth. if a serbian come to Yliakum and try to create a real guild under ps but only have 6 members for now... if there were a retrictions like having 10members minimum, it would be impossible to create the guild even if the serbian guild leader would find the 4 other members in the next 2 or 3 monthes... and 2 or 3 mothes after... where are the first 6 others members?
I know that especially because my guild is a french guild of 14members. I dont want to accept everyone without knowing them because I personaly respect the ps rules and I know I must represent my members and be responsible of them...
My opinion on language-specific guilds is that they should not exist, because if they are based on language they are OOC. If they are not based on language, then there is no reason to have a non-english guild at all. The official language of PS is english, and thus every guild must be accessible for someone who speaks english. Otherwise it would encourage separation and thus fragmentation of the community, which is opposed to the concept of having one single PS universe.
However, I agree that if you don\'t speak english well it is very demanding and therefore a guild in your native language can be helpful, which probably is why it has been said that guild internal chat, etc. may be non-english.
I agree that there would be not too much of an incentive for players who don\'t speak that non-english language to join the guild, so it\'s a double-edged sword.
Originally posted by fken
Now you are right I quote my guildleading experience in example
Which is quite acceptable in this case.
Originally posted by fken
(duh, we have more than 10 people, of course it doesn\'t work!)
is it the explorers guild which said there were only 9 places max in their guild-like groups? (not sure... but it was an old guild for sure)
I don\'t know, but if, it seems outdated, seeing that some of their folds have way more members.
Originally posted by fken
wahou !!! but why are you affected??? eh! if you look a guy who love another guy, would you feel affected?? if you look a guy who buy a better computer than yours, would you feel affected?? if your neighbourg fu ck with another girl than his wife, would you feel affected? if your neighbourg choose to live during the night without annoying you, would you feel affected? If you are affected by things that dont concern you it\'s maybe the day to look for a psy...
It affects me by
- pointless guildnames that I see. Turning them off would solve that, yes.
- invite spam I receive.
- less than pristine newbies being accepted and instantly equipped with weapons and whatnot, then proceeding to create challenge spam and fight clutter or other annoying behaviour (like overrunning spawn places and trying to KS everyone away, though this was an extreme incident).
- RP, though by far less often. Basically if some newbie guild decides to brag about their guild in something that could be regarded as RP.
Yes, it is not the worst problem, but it still is one. And if it can be solved, than this is good, no?
Originally posted by fken
So I think everythings will be more realistic thanks to the guildhouses... and if you are annoyed to rping my advice is the following : option -> dont display guildname... because Im sorry but even if MornGlawar is the guildleader of Edhelgarth, It\'s not written on his face so if you wanna be rp, be rp entirely and dont display the guildname : simply ask it like a good roleplayer !
As I have acknowledged above this is possible but doesn\'t solve all problems. Also, I have gotten accustomed to the idea of \"guild markings\". Basically I RP that I don\'t know the guild name, but I recognise markings people wear. I\'m not sure if that was done in medieval times, too, but it sounds reasonable, especially considering that secret guilds don\'t show, which resembles the lack of markings quite nicely.
I don\'t RP everyone wearing name badges, though. That is used to distinguish the yliaki since fine-grained customisation isn\'t feasible yet.
@ DaveG: I don\'t really like the automatism you propose. Too many things may happen IRL that can take a great number of players offline for quite some time, like exam time, etc.. And if a decent guild dies, then this is not a problem since until that time it has been decent and afterwards it just doesn\'t show anymore. The problem is the number of pointless guilds, not the number of dying decent ones. After a pointless guild has died, it isn\'t a problem anymore.
Edit: After, say, 6 months of no member activity of a guild it may of course be automatically deleted. /Edit
This is why I am more in favor of a high startup fee than of recurring fees or other automation.
Yet, kicking inactive members is obviously something a decent guild will need to do, but this is something that should not be automated.
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I don\'t like auto booting either, and I won\'t do it to others. If a big job comes up at work, or finals I could be out for a month or more. I suspect others will agree. Membership is a matter for it\'s members, and not you. If it\'s your guild great, then that\'s YOUR policy. Don\'t force everyone into your managment style.
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okay, maybe i\'m not the first to notice this, but, here goes
at http://laanx.fragnetics.com/ it says the server is backonline underneath the graphs, and that we nead to run teh updater, but this doesn\'t work
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check the date.. thats all i will say...
-Easton
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pigottsm, look at the date. That was May 18th. That was a totally different update.
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*slaps himself*
okay sorry for that
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We\'re so addicted we\'re seeing mirages.
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Originally posted by Seytra
@ DaveG: I don\'t really like the automatism you propose. Too many things may happen IRL that can take a great number of players offline for quite some time, like exam time, etc.. And if a decent guild dies, then this is not a problem since until that time it has been decent and afterwards it just doesn\'t show anymore. The problem is the number of pointless guilds, not the number of dying decent ones. After a pointless guild has died, it isn\'t a problem anymore.
Edit: After, say, 6 months of no member activity of a guild it may of course be automatically deleted. /Edit
Yeah, that\'s what I was going for. Delete the guilds that have a hand full of game-play hours over a whole month. If the guild isn\'t online anymore, then in all reality is already disbanded. (What usually happens if someone eventually comes back on, is they quit the guild to move to an active one. There\'s no reason to stay in an abandoned guild.) Besides, if everyone does eventually come back on, they can just re-form the guild, if they want.
Another reason to get rid of inactive guilds: Inactive alliances. My guild, Twin Blades of Arete, is the only active guild in the \"Circle of Wrath\" alliance. This is dumb. In fact, the remaining active members of the other guilds in the alliance just migrated into us. These cannon-fodder empty guilds just need to be deleted.
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Oh, you mean guild and not members of a guild be auto deleted? I thought you meant we should sit by, and watch as one person after the next is auto deleted until the guild is nothing.
I do think at all times you should meet the min requirements for the formation of guild in the first place, else give up offical status. I still think who is removed from a guild should be up to the membership. I also think a month is too short.
PS. What is a mana rat?
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*Looks in the Kenti Dictionary* A rat with a maxed out mana, watch out for the sacred dance of the one-eyed rat, it can take out 200 health O.O
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Another reason to get rid of inactive guilds: Inactive alliances. My guild, Twin Blades of Arete, is the only active guild in the \"Circle of Wrath\" alliance. This is dumb. In fact, the remaining active members of the other guilds in the alliance just migrated into us. These cannon-fodder empty guilds just need to be deleted.
About that...Karsier has agreed apon a new alliance with AI called the Black Order...We\'ll be starting that after the wipe which is an active alliance.
Also I think 6 months is a bit long...maybe 3 months. Thats if Xordan still wants \"core\" guilds. Core is code for active...I think...
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uhm. This is like WAY of topic :P
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uhm. This is like WAY of topic
Yeah, and that made it a whole lot better..
Back on topic, I guess the devs are just doing final testing now, It should be up any mintue now...should...
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gets down and prays, please allow me to play whe ni get up
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Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Seytra
@ DaveG: I don\'t really like the automatism you propose. Too many things may happen IRL that can take a great number of players offline for quite some time, like exam time, etc.. And if a decent guild dies, then this is not a problem since until that time it has been decent and afterwards it just doesn\'t show anymore. The problem is the number of pointless guilds, not the number of dying decent ones. After a pointless guild has died, it isn\'t a problem anymore.
Edit: After, say, 6 months of no member activity of a guild it may of course be automatically deleted. /Edit
Yeah, that\'s what I was going for. Delete the guilds that have a hand full of game-play hours over a whole month. If the guild isn\'t online anymore, then in all reality is already disbanded. (What usually happens if someone eventually comes back on, is they quit the guild to move to an active one. There\'s no reason to stay in an abandoned guild.) Besides, if everyone does eventually come back on, they can just re-form the guild, if they want.
Another reason to get rid of inactive guilds: Inactive alliances. My guild, Twin Blades of Arete, is the only active guild in the \"Circle of Wrath\" alliance. This is dumb. In fact, the remaining active members of the other guilds in the alliance just migrated into us. These cannon-fodder empty guilds just need to be deleted.
The alliance is dead, so leave it. Hey, maybe the rest of you guys can join with the Minions and the Ghosts.... if they let you of course. :-D
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by DaveG
Originally posted by Seytra
@ DaveG: I don\'t really like the automatism you propose. Too many things may happen IRL that can take a great number of players offline for quite some time, like exam time, etc.. And if a decent guild dies, then this is not a problem since until that time it has been decent and afterwards it just doesn\'t show anymore. The problem is the number of pointless guilds, not the number of dying decent ones. After a pointless guild has died, it isn\'t a problem anymore.
Edit: After, say, 6 months of no member activity of a guild it may of course be automatically deleted. /Edit
Yeah, that\'s what I was going for. Delete the guilds that have a hand full of game-play hours over a whole month. If the guild isn\'t online anymore, then in all reality is already disbanded. (What usually happens if someone eventually comes back on, is they quit the guild to move to an active one. There\'s no reason to stay in an abandoned guild.) Besides, if everyone does eventually come back on, they can just re-form the guild, if they want.
Another reason to get rid of inactive guilds: Inactive alliances. My guild, Twin Blades of Arete, is the only active guild in the \"Circle of Wrath\" alliance. This is dumb. In fact, the remaining active members of the other guilds in the alliance just migrated into us. These cannon-fodder empty guilds just need to be deleted.
The alliance is dead, so leave it.
Theoretically, people would come back on... eventually. We wouldn\'t have to deal with these things if they were automatic. But yeah, we left it... and the wipe kinda deleted it as well... :P
Yes though... very off topic.
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Like seytra, Im absolutly against the idea of seeing monthly fees or something like that: it would be the worse it could be!
I play ps since one year and I am sure of one thing: people cant automatically delete a guild every x monthes of non use simply because some players dont come anymore when they heard there will be a wipe or something like that...
Like Seytra I dont like the one who dont follow the rules
but
I know there are GM and I know that GM can do their job...
I simply think it would be a possibility (and even a possibility for today) to allow people to create only one guild per month max...
but
the GM must have the right to rename a guild (especially if the creating character has done a mistake in his guildname