PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eolius on August 07, 2005, 11:21:12 pm
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As many of you are aware we are releasing a new update. So this means a new build of the server and a wipe of the database for the characters. We have seen a number of crashes in the last 12 hours and are working hard on those to get the server as stable as possible. So please bear with us as those issues are worked out.
This is taken from http://laanx.fragnetics.com/index.php?page=server_news (http://laanx.fragnetics.com/index.php?page=server_news).
What i was wondering, and i guess many others, is:
What will this wipe actualy wipe?
Do we have to rebuild our characters again or we will only loose inventory items? Ty in anticipation of your answer :)
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first idea of it is all inventory, tria, loot etc
but latter thoughts have guessed we may need to restart the whole shibang again, and imho it would be better to do so
why?
because we love seeing you horrible grots in misery! >:D bwuahahahaha!
/me rides off into the night on Sally the ulbernaut
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Originally posted by Demarthl
why?
because we love seeing you horrible grots in misery! >:D bwuahahahaha!
/me rides off into the night on Sally the ulbernaut
Well, \"horrible grots\" is a bit harsh don\'t you think?
And we (at least i) are not in misery but it will be boring after a while to get wiped once every 2 weeks.
/me doesn\'t ride because it is not implemented yet :P
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horrible grots isnt harsh, its just fun naming
i could call you n00b scumbags, but your not, your grots :P
we wont have wipes every 2 weeks, it\'ll just be this last one for now, we dont know when the next will be, if ever
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...that a second full wipe is necessary. It would seem that rats are dropping regularly 200 tria weapons at a time, people are selling them and training. The second inventory wipe was to get rid of things if the mansters dropped too much loot, but since players are training, this wouldn\'t matter. If there is not a second full wipe when this new looting system is worked out then there will be a large group of power-levelers that have become uber-strong, agile, intelligent, everything. This would be very bad, for the game to be challenging (and therefore enjoyable) a second full wipe is needed.
On a second note, it would also be preferable if the second wipe occurs after an update by a week or two so people of every client can have equal access to planeshift.
I would finally like to point out that I am not complaining. I know this is a pre-alpha tech demo and things will be done that I don\'t like, things will be done that I like and others don\'t. I am merely voicing my opinion after thinking about this logically.
Thanks devs, mods, gm\'s, everyone. Planeshift is awesome and I want it to stay that way. I look forward to playing when the mac client comes out.
Xirius
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wow, someone said thanks... to the GM\'s! 8o
what\'ve you been smoking?
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what\'ve you been smoking?
my socks and of course some moshrooms.
but seriously what\'s so strange about thanking GMs, you keep the morons in their domain...
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I for one am strongly in favour of the second wipe, I believe it is needful and a great idea....as long as you don\'t break the /roll cmd again :(
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heres a thought. Since its all one big happy database, why just not search for all characters that were created during the out of whack item droppings. You use what, sequel? oracle? or a spinoff of? and wipe those characters.
I don\'t see how wiping everyone is neccessary as only those accounts that were used during that time span are the ones affected.
And before anyone goes saying that I only suggest this becuase my character was created after, well I\'ll have you know that I only have one character, and yes, he does fall in this time period.
But really folks, we\'re talking pre-alpha here. Its not like those characters are going to be around until the game is completed anyway. When I beta test, characters are deleted and created daily, mainly to test server limits and bugs. So really, everyone just chill. Enjoy the game how you want to play it and don\'t worry about the guy next to you. /end rant
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Well what\'s with those created in that span who didnt exploit it, should they be wiped to. I am for \"anyone or noone\".
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Every one or no one frankly i am getting tired of this i worked hard on my toon,Didnt cheat didnt exploit and now its all out the window again.If this is going to be the norm wipe every time the devs or programmers goof,this is all a huge waste of time.When the next wipe happens it will be 100 people in the sewers each camping a rat because there are not enough mobs,populate the outdoors at least.There is a ton of room to put rats outdoors.
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There will be wipes in the future Fattkatt whether you like it or not, at the moment those playing are only testers so don\'t expect to make a character and be able to keep him until the game is finished.
Funny how people always whine about there not being enough rats in sewers, everytime I am in the game and hunting in the sewers I have no problem finding rats!
Can\'t handle any of this? go play some finished game like WoW, Final Fantasy IX, Ragnarok Online or perhaps even RuneScape :rolleyes:
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Of course there will be wipes,but over something this trivial?Funny you should mention WoW i beated that and EQ 1 Lineage 2 and am doing 3 other beatas now.Ihave just been invited to the D and D alpha,so i know what this is all about,and in all of that i have never seen wipes for such trivial stuff.Can\'t handle my reply go play with your self and don\'t try and teach someone who spends most of his time doing betas what it is all about.
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Originally posted by tbvp
heres a thought. Since its all one big happy database, why just not search for all characters that were created during the out of whack item droppings. You use what, sequel? oracle? or a spinoff of? and wipe those characters.
That is all characters. Because the \'out of whack item droppings\' period started when there were no characters at all and will end at the time we will want to do the wipe. So that means that all characters are created in that period.
Greetings,
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Originally posted by Fattkatt
don\'t try and teach someone who spends most of his time doing betas what it is all about.
lol, then start acting as if you were one :rolleyes: and besides this isn\'t even beta but pre-alpha
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fattkatt, you may have betaed, but did you ever alpha? ps isn\'t even to beta stage yet.
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mmhmm pre alpha ^^
and no matter how many you\'ve donme of anything, you still suck.
if ignorance is bliss then that makes teamwork heavenly
thats what ps is about, not hw many bugs you find, or your level, how many rats you owned in 5 minutes, its about working together and building a dream, dont throw your weight around shouting \"i have experience make way!\"
we\'ll throw it right back at you, with a twist :)
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Originally posted by Demarthl
mmhmm pre alpha ^^
and no matter how many you\'ve donme of anything, you still suck.
if ignorance is bliss then that makes teamwork heavenly
thats what ps is about, not hw many bugs you find, or your level, how many rats you owned in 5 minutes, its about working together and building a dream, dont throw your weight around shouting \"i have experience make way!\"
we\'ll throw it right back at you, with a twist :)
I\'m glad that the people in charge of this thing have vision like you do.
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I have been talking with people... and I think there should be a second character wipe. People cheated so much in the short period of time they could. Not to mention there is a way that you can stand in front of trepors and they dont attack... I have to run around the room kiling them. (I wish I knew how to do it :)) But yes.. when Ylians have 150 str already I think everything should be wiped. No way any of us could do that without cheating :(.
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Originally posted by fattkatt
Of course there will be wipes,but over something this trivial?Funny you should mention WoW i beated that and EQ 1 Lineage 2 and am doing 3 other beatas now.Ihave just been invited to the D and D alpha,so i know what this is all about,and in all of that i have never seen wipes for such trivial stuff.Can\'t handle my reply go play with your self and don\'t try and teach someone who spends most of his time doing betas what it is all about.
*starts worshipping the ground (with excrementing on it) fattkatt walks on and kisses his butt (with the tip of his foot)*
seriously you think you are anything special?
Better a hundred wipes then a hundred cheated characters!
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Originally posted by Cyl
Better a hundred wipes then a hundred cheated characters!
Most definitly second this comment.
Aranis
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Ah and the reek of hypocricy fills the air,the reason it seems that everyone wants a wipe is because some may have a character advantage.Yet this is is only a pre beta we are here to check the game not to build characters sorry fools ya cant have it both ways.Either character development is important or its not,if it is than yes wipe if not than the wipe whiners are total hypocrites and just jealous of the cheaters.
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or fattkatt your going to stop looking down on people because we\'re all equal, and realise we are going to do what the Dev\'s want and you have no other choice but to leave if you dont like it.
:)
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Originally posted by fattkatt
Every one or no one frankly i am getting tired of this i worked hard on my toon,Didnt cheat didnt exploit and now its all out the window again.If this is going to be the norm wipe every time the devs or programmers goof,this is all a huge waste of time.When the next wipe happens it will be 100 people in the sewers each camping a rat because there are not enough mobs,populate the outdoors at least.There is a ton of room to put rats outdoors.
There are 7 rats in Ojaveda, two rats in the tefu valley, several rats in the arena, and tonnes of clackers in both the arena and the dungeon.
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Originally posted by fattkatt
Ah and the reek of hypocricy fills the air,the reason it seems that everyone wants a wipe is because some may have a character advantage.Yet this is is only a pre beta we are here to check the game not to build characters sorry fools ya cant have it both ways.Either character development is important or its not,if it is than yes wipe if not than the wipe whiners are total hypocrites and just jealous of the cheaters.
We\'re playtesting it. To get a realistic playtesting experience, we need to have a realistic version of the game.
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This game still isn\'t a race for the best stats, so what?
When people use ridiculous amounts of time (or exploiting) to make their characters \"mighty\", let them. They don\'t \"win\" this game in any way. Wiping every month could annoy a lot of players though...
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Ahh.....I\'m all for wipes...The more the better. If there\'s a reason, there should be a wipe. Better that every player is wiped than one player have a stupid advantage.
And all those that moan about the wipes are stupid, because the only ones who moan about the wipes are the ones who\'ve already exploited to make money!
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Originally posted by leuxast
And all those that moan about the wipes are stupid,
I just don\'t bother when some people have higher stats than me...
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Originally posted by provisionist1
...that a second full wipe is necessary. It would seem that rats are dropping regularly 200 tria weapons at a time, people are selling them and training. The second inventory wipe was to get rid of things if the mansters dropped too much loot, but since players are training, this wouldn\'t matter. If there is not a second full wipe when this new looting system is worked out then there will be a large group of power-levelers that have become uber-strong, agile, intelligent, everything. This would be very bad, for the game to be challenging (and therefore enjoyable) a second full wipe is needed.
On a second note, it would also be preferable if the second wipe occurs after an update by a week or two so people of every client can have equal access to planeshift.
I would finally like to point out that I am not complaining. I know this is a pre-alpha tech demo and things will be done that I don\'t like, things will be done that I like and others don\'t. I am merely voicing my opinion after thinking about this logically.
Thanks devs, mods, gm\'s, everyone. Planeshift is awesome and I want it to stay that way. I look forward to playing when the mac client comes out.
Xirius
Here\'s a fact... How much did you trained after the wipe?
It seems that you didn\'t bercause if you did you would know that the new progression system doesn\'t permit somebody to gain high levels (or just levels) in short time?
For the 10 level of sword i used 85 pp?
How many do you get from a rat? 0,2 i guess.
And you have to kill about 300-500 rats for the practical part of the training only, because now leveling isn\'t 2 hits with a sword and you are leveled.
So a full wipe isn\'t required, a inventory wipe will do just fine.
People are now exceding money (that they got from bugs) and lack pp so training is out of the question.
I don\'t bother about levels and stuff like that but i\'ll have to create my character for the 5th time...
Edit: I just don\'t bother when some people have higher stats than me...
This is not a pvp game, the fact that there are stonger ppl than you isn\'t important and has nothing to do with levels.
But the fact that you show a newcomer the world and you get killed by a clacker has alot to do with levels.
So you train to be able to kill that clacker next time but you get wiped... And a seccond thing about wipes... Has anybody noticed the behaviour of ppl just before a wipe? They seem to find nothing better to do and duel each other. Well, that isn\'t helping RP at all (that isn\'t helping anything actualy)
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Its good to know somebody gets it kudos ilbaal and Eolius.
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I don\'t really mind these wipes. I\'m fine with them but..
I did just now realize that each wipe does take precious time away from the devs. Also, If there are any high-level skills later (like in magic or smithing) wipes would prevent anyone from getting to that level and testing them.
As stated, this as pre-alpha so if there are bugged characters, exploits, and crazy rich characters, it shouldn\'t matter as long as theres nothing that makes the server crash or something. We can just have one big total wipe right before the full release and everyone will be happy! :]
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I think you guys need to understand that having people on an even playing field is needed until there are multiple, non-buggy ways of building a character. At the moment we can kill rats (and more once the loot system is sorted out) and mine... not exactly a big list, is it?
A wipe is good because:
a)It will allow the devs to correct bugs that have appeared. For those who don\'t know, fixing bugs is a major part of moving the development process to a better playing experience for all
b)Allow Mac and Linux users to have the same playing experience as Windows users.
I don\'t see why a second wipe could be bad. It\'s not like there are a lot of things to do with high stats (Most are not implemented). Also, roleplaying is a big big part of PlaneShift...doing another wipe won\'t exactly take away from roleplay, it will encourage it more.
If we can build a community of roleplayers at the start of the game\'s life, that community will grow as the game grows. If Power levelers are allowed to exploit bugs atm it may seem harmless now, but it sends the wrong idea to newbies.
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I agree, but why is a wipe needed for the devs to fix a bug? And the high level things will appear later.
Besides, right now, What exactly can you roleplay? From what I\'ve heard many of the quests are a little whack, sure you can talk, but what else to \'roleplay\' except fight? No new places to explore, no castles to build, no guild houses to buy, no guild wars to participate in, no treasure to discover, no spells to create...
And without the wipe linux and mac users would be on an even field in other areas, why would it ruin bugfixing capabilities to be on an uneven field? This is a pre-alpha, so it shouldn\'t really matter that some people have an \'unfair\' advantage because of fixed bugs. It just means that when expensive things happen like pteuesaur riding implementation, there will be more of those \'exploiters\' to buy em (because they are gonna be expensive) and ride em quickly, and find all the bugs quickly.
Wipes are fine but once you think about it, they are just a little pointless during a pre-alpha. :rolleyes:
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I don\'t see them as pointless. Lets say that we don\'t have a wipe at all (All tria, loot, etc. is kept). Some people decide they want an Uber char and level their stats a lot. Fast forward to next update with cool features and they find some bugs (ones that come out when it is released onto the actual server). Some people exploit, roleplaying isn\'t usefull when you can go club rats for an hour and raise your strength stats easily.
Sure, you can fix these bugs, but the damage will already be done. This is where the wipe comes into play. You let the PL\'s keep the massive amount of loot and stats, then it makes more PL\'s join because of the easy way of exploiting and getting off scot free. Wiping will show that exploiting bugs is pointless.
If we have a second wipe now, soon after the first wipe, then it won\'t be as bad if the wipe came a few months down the track.
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I just want us all on an equal playing field. No this game is not about the stats... its about the community as a whole.
Its late though so I will leave with one last statement:
Basically I despise cheaters.. They cause others to have to cheat to keep up with them. Its not fair.. and please no one post after me saying \"Well, life isnt fair.\" There is a difference... we cannot always control what happens in rl to make situations fair... but we can in the realm of PS :D
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Originally posted by Kias
I don\'t see them as pointless. Lets say that we don\'t have a wipe at all (All tria, loot, etc. is kept). Some people decide they want an Uber char and level their stats a lot. Fast forward to next update with cool features and they find some bugs (ones that come out when it is released onto the actual server). Some people exploit, roleplaying isn\'t usefull when you can go club rats for an hour and raise your strength stats easily.
Sure, you can fix these bugs, but the damage will already be done. This is where the wipe comes into play. You let the PL\'s keep the massive amount of loot and stats, then it makes more PL\'s join because of the easy way of exploiting and getting off scot free. Wiping will show that exploiting bugs is pointless.
If we have a second wipe now, soon after the first wipe, then it won\'t be as bad if the wipe came a few months down the track.
There are many reasons i disagree with you, Kias.
First of all if i\'ll get \"ulber stats\" as you say (although, i repeat, if you would have trained you would know that is impossible) i\'m not getting those stats to kill you, i\'m getting those stats to be able to kill a clacker or other monster. I must repeat, this is not a player versus player game. So having stats and skills brings me in the position of beiing advantaged? Nope, i don\'t think so.
Having some stats will only help me to fulfill my guild duties better and be able to help others.
PL have been discussed in other threads and it is different than leveling, see this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerlevel) Exploiting bugs isn\'t good but players that try to keep away from this will be bored of so many wipes.
To wipe us all so the mac users can be at the same level is fair but weird... Let\'s do a wipe everytime a new player joins so we can be all equal.
I really don\'t care if there are players thougher than me, i don\'t duel so it is really not that important.
I\'m not against the wipe, i\'m against a full wipe because i\'ll have to rebuild my char and my guild again waiting again for members to come online so i can invite them and so on.
I also camped a rat when the looting system was messed up so i can get 10 gold falchions as presents for my friends ingame. That is because i have nothing against a inventory wipe but i think a full wipe is a bit radical.
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i agree partially with eolius and valbrandr. yes, cheaters ruin everything but on the other hand - why care? most likely they wont be in a (to be respected) guild nor can they do any harm to me if i dont duell them. let them have as many trias as they wont, soon enough they will quit playing anyway out of boredom - or does any of you play simply to be listed on the stats page at laanx? guess not...
on the other hand, for me not being one of the lucky users that remember their character from MB, every wipe hurts much. im no PL (well, actually im polish hehe) and my main motivation is to RP with others. but i want to be able to do some magic, for thats how i play my character. i mean, what kind of a mage am i without knowing a single spell? sure i can RP to \"charm all around me with a freezy cloud\" but heck, i dont need to login to PS then and rather join a IRC RP channel. in addition it is quite hard to become a decent mage when you start from zero. sure, if you have friends like valbrandr things go a little bit faster but in anyway, you will most likely spend days killing rats and other stuff before you get enough experience in one way to no longer depend on sword skills... but from my point of view, thats a design flaw in PS anyway. it should be possible to become a mage without having first to kill monsters with the sword (or the hand for that matters).
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Oh please. I\'ve never seen anything so funny! It\'s some kind of pre-Alpha/beta test that\'s open to the public so it can be massively tested but no discussion of bugs because the PL\'ing cheaters will get more powerful than the RPG\'ers who can\'t keep their community together because the wipes have to delete their characters, stats and guilds. Big secret here folks! It\'s a bug, but it has to be kept secret! You\'d think that the NPC AI being bugged would be something they want tested to death so they can fix it. So BOO!:
If you attack and then walk past or any direction from a mob you\'ve just attacked until you are out of range, then walk back to it and attack it again before it moves, it acts like you aren\'t there while you kill it. Many variations on this, but most people can figure this one out pretty easy.
There. Now lets move on to more important things. If you are really concerned more about new people wanting to stay and play this game, the movement and sticky spot bugs need to be fixed. Getting stuck in the DR without being able to get out with /spawn has to be the most effective deterrent to a new person continuing to play this game that I\'ve seen. Much more important than your precious \"get rid of all the PL loot falchion cheaters cause they have more money than the crystal hoarders from MB\" concerns.
Yes, a wipe should be done. Hell, a wipe should probably be done before each update. I\'ll go even further. GM\'s or special testers should be given massive PP and Trias, or just maxed stats so they can test the upper end of things too.
As for Role Play, if you really want substantial RPG community continuity, persuade the Devs to figure out a way to wipe everything BUT the names and Guild memberships. That\'s really all you need to have RP continuity, right?
And any RPG\'er that exploits the knowledge that guilds keep to themselves about how to work the Quest engines, how to create and use macro\'s to equip potions, how to do magic, how to exploit terrain bugs, how to do anything without figuring it out for yourself is Power Leveling. So go cry in yer spilt milk. :)
/me Drinks some more Ale and shakes head with amusement
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Arkumin Delvrim, I think you\'re right about everything.
Sidenote - key dragon council members are definately guilty of those power-levelling strategies. I\'m not saying it\'s good or bad, I\'m just saying it is happening.
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I just realized something. IF powerleveling is so discouraged, and you are supposed to just keep the stats you started with, what the heck are Trepors made for? What are Super Tefus Made for? What is the entire arena made for? What is the ULBERNAUT made for? There is no way in yliakum a player with the basic stats would stand a chance against any of those. Heck, the only think it can take is a rat! Seems awfully pointless to me. X(
On to more important matters.
If cheaters have tons of money and hordes of PP? Why should you care? I don\'t. I hve absolutely no tria and no way to use the PP, but I don\'t really hate those crazy rich cheaters? They don\'t hurt me, I don\'t hurt them, They can have fun killing ulbernauts and using the flying bug, I\'m perfectly happy doing other things! More come, But that doesn\'t really stem the flow of noncheaters does it? When the Full version is done, they can just be banned if they still try to exploit bugs after a wipe. What\'s the big? If you don\'t powerlevel then you shouldn\'t care that half of the community in PS is stronger than you.
Actually though, I do want the wipe I noticed I kinda screwed up my character and I want to start fresh with everyone else.
But that I say is have one now and Have one total wipe right before the full release! No big bugs to exploit, and everybody starts fresh and on fair ground to enjo the complete and enoumous world of PS! :D
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/me votes for a wipe every two weeks, it will keep the PLers away, then add a few days (what about 6 ?) in each week when NPC cant be attacked, and RP will be enforced :)
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Ugh. Every two weeks? Did you not read my post? What, are we just supposed to stand around and talk or something? Is that what RP is? You can already do that in IRC thanks.. :O
RP is supposed to be roleplaying your alternate self. Going on grand quests, getting rich, famous, making lots of freinds. RP is not chat. :(
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Originally posted by leji
/me votes for a wipe every two weeks, it will keep the PLers away, then add a few days (what about 6 ?) in each week when NPC cant be attacked, and RP will be enforced :)
That would prevent me from roleplaying my character. I play a magic using person. In two weeks I barely have enough time to get sufficient skills to practice magic.
Greetings,
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every two weeks wouldn\'t work for me. even though i RP, i still like to train and collect as well to evolve my character. it would be a competition with every other player to get the rats first, as well as erase everything i\'ve worked so hard to get.
i vote: wipe only when necessary. time itself drives away the PLs anyway. although you can never really get rid of them all. there will always be PLs, no matter what we do.
they\'re kind of like cockroaches: kill one, and two more take it\'s place. and nuclear bombs don\'t work... you need Raid. lots of Raid!
*goes off to get some PL Raid*
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If you make your character right at the beggining, you can give him level 7 in swords, or level 3 axe, or crystal / dark way in the teens. If you do that, there\'s no reason for you to ever touch a rat.
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Everyone should get ready for the next wipe. Not sure when it will happen but I can almost guantee that it will. All the monsters are bugged now... and the item generator is being worked on further. Hopefully the devs will get the drop rates and whatnot correct so that the wipe will happen sooner than later.
But either way, please let this be the last wipe. I dont mind waiting awhile as long as it is the \"Last Wipe.\" I want to seriously play again. Even if something minor happened once again.. as long as the monsters are fighting back... then lets just move on.
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I for one am strongly in favour of the second wipe, I believe it is needful and a great idea....as long as you don\'t break the /roll cmd again
exactly what was expected from you :P
I say: \"Give me a W, give me an I, give me a P, give me an E. Goooooooooooooooooooooo WIIIPPPEEEE!!!!\"
1st: Didn\'t create my char like I would like;
2nd: If i deleted it I would lose my money because I trained 2 skills (yah alot)
3rd: mana formula all messed up and Lordbug has high mental stats and 18 mana. How can you be a mage like that?
4th: I\'m hoping for more skins.... I want to be blaaaaaaack
5th: It\'s good to have 13 001 tria to spend right away;
hmm... basicly I want the wipe to happen just because of me...
I\'m so selfish... erm... and I want the world to have peace and all mankind to be happy and in harmony... loads of money wasn\'t bad too... and a house with a pool... and a porche...
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I want a second wipe too.
1. Stats messed up
2. I spent like 4k trias on items and gave them away >_<
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Originally posted by zanzibar
...Sidenote - key dragon council members are definately guilty of those power-levelling strategies. I\'m not saying it\'s good or bad, I\'m just saying it is happening.
An appropriately passive-aggressive \"neutral\" comment, which we are well used to by now.
But really in all fairness, my good Shala\':
Pot?.....Kettle?....Black? ;)
/me chuckles and shakes his head.
EDIT: /me apologizes to Most Honorable Moderators for allowing myself to be baited into steering this thread off-topic. :(
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
2. I spent like 4k trias on items and gave them away >_<
That\'s a horrible reason to want a wipe.
((I\'ve given away over 16k in just the last two or three days.))
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Originally posted by Danok
Originally posted by zanzibar
...Sidenote - key dragon council members are definately guilty of those power-levelling strategies. I\'m not saying it\'s good or bad, I\'m just saying it is happening.
An appropriately passive-aggressive \"neutral\" comment, which we are well used to by now.
But really in all fairness, my good Shala\':
Pot?.....Kettle?....Black? ;)
/me chuckles and shakes his head.
EDIT: /me apologizes to Most Honorable Moderators for allowing myself to be baited into steering this thread off-topic. :(
I have level 10 in axe and level 1 in light armour, so I have no clue where you\'re getting off calling me a power leveller.
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Zanzibar could you stop flaming and double posting...
Oh btw where exactly did you get that 16k :rolleyes:
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calm down, I said every two weeks, it could be every three weeks :P
(that was some kind of joke, dont flame ... well you can but I wont care)
the fact is I\'ve been quite disappointed that so much fighting was implemented when I expected more jobs, activities etc... to be implemented first, so I\'m a bit bitter and say a lot of stupid things :)
btw, jorrit, you shouldnt play anyway, you should code :P (that was a joke too)
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meanest thread ever.. shouldn\'t well all be sharing ideas, and criticising them rather than expressing opinions and insulting anyone who feels differently?
bahh..
-Easton Ghent
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hmm a new wipe? Well have to say I am conflicted here, becuase if it\'s a GAME I see good points to a next wipe but people keep saying it\'s NOT a game. So why sweep then? If it\'s not a game YOU CAN\"T CHEAT.
I think in a tester sence it would even be great you have people all kinds of levels already testing stuff out otherwise would last much longer to find out if it works.
So get it straight people or it is a test, but then your cheating remarks are all pointless as you can\'t cheat while only testing. Or it is a game and then you can\'t nag on people not to complain becuase it\'s JUST a test.
I think some people just want it both ways but that just shows how ignorant some forumlurkers here are for needing to push other people down to feel better about themselves.
(Anyhow if it\'s prealpha why does it say beta as you download and even at every shortcut I have seen?)
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Zanzibar could you stop flaming and double posting...
Oh btw where exactly did you get that 16k :rolleyes:
1. Danok was flaming me, I was not flaming others.
2. Wow, two posts instead of one. I avoid it most of the time, but is it truly worth crying over?
3. I got the 16k from hunting during the period monsters weren\'t fighting back. Having super axes helped me get it. In total, I ended up giving 17k away during that period and spent around half that much on my character.
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PS: level 10 axe? Thats higher then me Shal. So exactly where are you getting your information I wonder?
Or am I not a keymember? hmmm well if I\'m not I don\'t think the DC has any, as Rioth is on vacation and hasn\'t even logged in after the wipe LOL
Anyhow anyone who has talken with Esserfin, Ganinos or Bodacher. Three of the most active members atm will know they are strongly opposed to cheating. Having even Dash and Bashed an Ulber (wich took over half an hour) to kill it just to kill it legit and not use the attackbug or to wall it.
As for the axes we have had a huge hand in discovering that, but that was luck and a GM told us it was fully legit and not a bug like with the rats.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
If you make your character right at the beggining, you can give him level 7 in swords, or level 3 axe, or crystal / dark way in the teens. If you do that, there\'s no reason for you to ever touch a rat.
Are you forgetting that glyphs cost 1,000 tria apiece? Saying there\'s no need to ever touch a rat is essentially saying you don\'t really need to own any magic to call yourself a magic user. That is worse than saying that you can buy swords and hold them, and that is a sufficient RP excuse to call yourself a swordsman. If that\'s your attitude, you may as well RP on an IRC channel and avoid a game designed to include those elements when you can just wing it. I don\'t believe you\'re saying you think we should all do that, so dare I say my point is made?
Originally posted by Pestilence
PS: level 10 axe? Thats higher then me Shal.
I don\'t call everyone with more than 10 ranks in sword (what I have) a power-leveler. How do you come off saying that? I actually roleplay whenever possible (although most players don\'t, so being stubborn about it just makes the whole deal less enjoyable), and I never picked up a single rank in axe when all those \"fitty\'s\" started showing up, and you just called me a power-leveler, so...where exactly do you set the bar?
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Originally posted by Pestilence
PS: level 10 axe? Thats higher then me Shal.
I don\'t call everyone with more than 10 ranks in sword (what I have) a power-leveler. How do you come off saying that? I actually roleplay whenever possible (although most players don\'t, so being stubborn about it just makes the whole deal less enjoyable), and I never picked up a single rank in axe when all those \"fitty\'s\" started showing up, and you just called me a power-leveler, so...where exactly do you set the bar?
I completely agree. I still don\'t understand why there is this black and white mantality of Power-Leveling vs. Roleplay. I do both, a lot. Gaining power and strength is a part of the goals of my character. Yes, I have a history and entire rp scheme behind it, but my character\'s goal is to become an incredibly powerful cult leader, bowman-ranger and red-blue mage. I cannot do this if there is a wipe \"every two weeks.\"
That said, I completely agree with the wipe two weeks ago and I am a proponent of a second full wipe very soon now that the looting has been stablised. But after that, I don\'t think there should be another wipe... simply an mb-cb migration when we have crystal blue to steel blue.
My opinions,
Xirius
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I agree with the first wipe and can life with the second.
Although I have to say I think it\'s kinda strange to wipe now when we didn\'t when some people got over 7 mil in tria with the MB-CB migration. Now that was an absurd amount of advantage.
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Here\'s the real question.... what are we competing against eachother for?
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A few observations:
1. The Devs have been doing this for years now. It is safe to assume that in all this time, they have learned something about the way people behave in the world they have created.
2. A game where every player stays at about the same level, is doomed to be a boring flop, and it is necessary for the world to contain those who are insanely strong, and those who are wimps.
3. Those who did not work, and those for whom trickery did not succeed, complain about those that did work.
They played in the same world that the RP players did, and had the same chance. If the way they play does not work as well, let them learn a better way.
Despite the failure of those who complain, to create for themselves an unfair advantage, nothing unfair occurred here.
4. Referring to (2.) above, many RP characters, including guild leaders, require greater skills and stats to be in character. Those players and supporting members, have worked extremely hard, with little sleep, so that they could continue their interrupted stories, and regain the positions of respected strength that they had before the Wipe.
5. So arduous and daunting was that effort, that many of those who have played the longest have told me they would not attempt it a second time, and faced with another full wipe, even the best and most dedicated might leave forever.
These storytellers are the people who transform what is basically a mere chat room with graphics, into a world. They are it\'s beating heart and it\'s soul.
They deserve to keep, as much as possible, the fruits of their labor, their creativity and their community.
Sincerely,
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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I disagree. Are you saying that those that made 10k, even 20k from the bugged rats should keep all their trias and trained stats? That\'s just ridiculous. Making 20k in an hour or less is definitely an exploit and ruins game balance. The devs want to test the normal balance of the game; exploits upset this balance. After the wipe, there will hopefully be no more exploits and then the game can proceed normally.
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Originally posted by Verrliit 3. Those who did not work, and those for whom trickery did not succeed, complain about those that did work.
They played in the same world that the RP players did, and had the same chance. If the way they play does not work as well, let them learn a better way.
Despite the failure of those who complain, to create for themselves an unfair advantage, nothing unfair occurred here.
There are those of us who \"work\", do not \"cheat\", and are still targeted for kill stealing / kill blocking. Unfair, ill-spiritted actions have indeed occurred.
Originally posted by Verrliit 4. Referring to (2.) above, many RP characters, including guild leaders, require greater skills and stats to be in character. Those players and supporting members, have worked extremely hard, with little sleep, so that they could continue their interrupted stories, and regain the positions of respected strength that they had before the Wipe.
A leader should not be respected based on strength alone, if at all.
You can make the argument that being stronger means that you can get more money for your guild, but it\'s obvious to me that when you spend 150,000 tria maxing out your stats that helping out your guild might not be your highest priority.
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Originally posted by Cha0s
I disagree. Are you saying that those that made 10k, even 20k from the bugged rats should keep all their trias and trained stats? That\'s just ridiculous. Making 20k in an hour or less is definitely an exploit and ruins game balance. The devs want to test the normal balance of the game; exploits upset this balance. After the wipe, there will hopefully be no more exploits and then the game can proceed normally.
Now that I have two nice axes, I can made 50k in an hour off of gladiators. Is that an exploit?
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Originally posted by Cha0s
I disagree. Are you saying that those that made 10k, even 20k from the bugged rats should keep all their trias and trained stats? That\'s just ridiculous. Making 20k in an hour or less is definitely an exploit and ruins game balance.
The announcement of the Devs\' plans for the wipe, states very clearly that characters will not be wiped again, and trained stats will be kept. As for balance, the Devs deliberately did this the way they saw fit, and I am too grateful for what they have given me to complain, even if I were not able to see, and did not agree as I do, with the wisdom of their actions.
The devs want to test the normal balance of the game; exploits upset this balance. After the wipe, there will hopefully be no more exploits and then the game can proceed normally.
No, they stated clearly that they are adjusting the balance of the game, including the new progression system, and the new loot.
Why on earth would you imagine that they do not see the balance that must be struck between the players as well?
Do you imagine that play would be allowed to continue for two entire days, with no monster allowed to fight back, if it did not serve the Devs\' intention to balance the game? If this were an \"exploit\" the server would have been shut down.
No, 20k from the rats was only a tiny fraction of the entirely intentional adjustments they have made.
And when it costs half a million Tria to get to level 50 in sword, there must be some way to make the income.
The current balance and distribution of income versus cost and the distribution of progression and wealth amongst the players is as the Devs intend it to be. And if there is any adjustment that it should please them to be made, you may be certain that they will make it.
Balance of the game also requires that some do much better than others. The unlucky, the foolish, the uninformed, those without friends to help them, must be surpassed by those who have these true advantages.
Those who have stories to tell, invested a great deal of time and effort in them, before the Wipe. I have seen them brought to tears by the difficulties that face them afterward.
There are only a handful of players that could possibly be considered not to deserve what they have achieved, and the structure of PS is resilient enough to withstand their actions.
I met a player yesterday who had slept less than four hours a night during an entire week.
Is it fair that his heroic effort, and that of hundreds of others, should be Wiped to appease the petty jealousy of those who have achieved less?
The Devs gave their word that they would not.
I trust they will keep to that.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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Characters probably will be wiped again. We certainally didn\'t think (for some reason) that people would exploit any combat bugs they found to get weapons which they would sell and spend on lots of training so that they didn\'t lose anything when we did wipe the items. Also, the training costs for stats are wrong, so lots of people have been able to train up to current maximum in a matter of weeks. I will want to look at char creation options as well. They don\'t seem too great atm. There are also other issues that need attention.
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If it costs half a million to get level 50 in sword, then maybe you aren\'t supposed to get level 50 in sword. :-D
Power levelling doesn\'t give you a story to tell. Being able to kill everyone else doesn\'t give you leadership qualities.
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Before you do the wipe and the big update, it would be reealy nice if some new skills were introduced so we could play with those after the wipe instead of being all bitter and training up again. :D
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Xordan, not to be rude, and I hope you do not take offense, but I feel you did not pay attention to me.
Those who leveled to a max stat in a matter of weeks, did so by playing for 60 to 100 hours a week. NOT simply exploiting a bug in targeting that is triggered half the time, whenever there is a group attack anyway.
Many can vouch for my nearly constant presence on the server, as well that of most of the more creative and dedicated RP players. We worked to stay ahead of the rest, at the edge of our endurance, because our established characters and storylines required us to do so, in order to continue.
In all the time since the wipe, I have dueled perhaps five times, and I have challenged no one.
The high level I have worked so hard to achieve is an indespensable basis upon which The Dark Lady Verrliit, Poet and Seer, Vessel for the Living Darkness, Warlord of the TBoA and Consort to the Great Ganinos, exists.
My story cannot continue unless I am deadly.
I maxed several skills and several attribs prior to the wipe, in my first four weeks. It was my first experience with an online game.
All but a few of those around me, simply did not work as hard. Then or now.
For they are not desperate, as I am, to continue the story of their heart\'s desire.
I come here to dream out loud, with others who feel the same. This is not just a game, it has become instead, a part of my life that I have always wanted, but could never live any other way....
This is the essence of RP in PS. If the characters are completely wiped again, even though we were promised that they would not be, then the players cannot help but feel betrayed, their efforts discarded as worthless, and the magic that exists here between the players, may well be destroyed entirely.
Sincerely,
The Dark Lady
verrliit
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Powerlevelling does not constitute character developement. Period.
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This is coming from a person, who often tries to dual people, and tries to flaunt his strength:P. In a way i agree with you Shal, but it does set a kind of authority and puts them in a characters appropriate stature and view from others if needed.
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hehe. second wipe eh ? dosnrt mean much. i havnt got back into the game, mac version is all bugged up etc :( so i cant get in. i have to wait until new build comes out hehe. oh well. but yeah a complete wipe will be cool. i dont mind. its only gonna happen anyway, and this is beta so it really dosnt matter all that much.
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Then tell me O fountains of selfish obtuseness, failure and blind misunderstanding, you whose souls are bereft of all Story, Poetry and Vision:
How else may I ensure that when, as has always been, some fool who wishes to test his strength, should challenge Verrliit, the Vessel of Darkness, that the Darkness shall eat him?
It is a requirement, a prerequisite for me to exist as Verrliit. My story flows from this being an assumed fact.
Since the Wipe, I have labored to the limits of my endurance, and only now do I even begin to reach that point where I can be myself again. If I am not an opponent that is truly dangerous, I cease to be Verrliit, and my story cannot be told.
It is the background, the canvas upon which I paint, a mere setting for the truly difficult task of telling my story.
From Nothingness, by force of Will,
for Beauty, Love, Dark Power\'s thrill,
with Logic twisted, odd and Fell,
a Monstrous thought I shall foretell,
That shakes the Fabric of the World,
while Heroes to their Deaths are hurled.
For I Dream Truth, and Futures Bend,
to chart a course that is Legend.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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Originally posted by oobilytoob
This is coming from a person, who often tries to dual people, and tries to flaunt his strength:P. In a way i agree with you Shal, but it does set a kind of authority and puts them in a characters appropriate stature and view from others if needed.
I flaunt nothing. I just enjoy killing people.
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Verrliit: All the stat gains you have enjoyed are a test :) Balance must continuously be adjusted until the dev team finds something what works. Currently, it does not work. The balance is off, skewed. Wipes are needed to start over and test the adjusted balance anew.
I would think this to be self-evident.
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Firstly: Please point out where we promised that chars wouldn\'t be wiped again.
Second: This is version 0.3. People should except us to have to do things like wipes at any time until we have something stable. In the future once things are more stable we would have another migration if we ever did have to wipe.
Third: Like I said, stat training is completely wrong. People have gotten too good, too fast, which upsets the balance of things. If this was version 0.6, by which point we will have a stable rules base I\'m guessing, which we don\'t at the moment, then you\'d have every right to complain.
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so what if some people made 10K or 20K, its useless unless you have PP, to train skills, to get PP you have still to kill more powerful monsters.
and anyway its paled by the sudden windfall of super swords, unless of course you want to moan about that as well.
So to summarise how is it to be tested quickly without these little hickups, or do you want us to be like this for months testing the new loot system. :)
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Firstly: Please point out where we promised that chars wouldn\'t be wiped again.
From the Offical wipe thread:
When is this going to happen? That depends. We don\'t like to do this. So we will try to do this when we are absolutely sure that we don\'t have to do it again.
Its not a promise, but I can see how people could have iterpreted it that way.. The obvious implication is that the attempt to do it when they were sure they wouldnt have to do it again has failed.
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Oh, by all means Karyuu.
Heaven forbid, that some might have been exceptional, and done much better than others. That is intolerable, and must be made impossible to achieve. Let the stories and the artistry and passion and effort of the players be damned. They have no importance or value.
If you who push for character wipe have your way, this world will become a bowl of oatmeal, bland and tasteless, unsurprising and uninspired.
The Devs have stated that the reason for wiping the characters, was because the format of the new progression framework was incompatible with the old database. They have every ability to limit progression in any way they see fit, and I have watched adjustments being made along the way.
The Devs announced that character stats and skills would be the only thing that would survive the second wipe, which would follow by a matter of weeks. Only a fool would ignore that, and fail to push their development as far as they could.
So what surprised you Wipers, about how the players responded after the Wipe? That we have so few fools?
I also point out that there are now weapons that can do over 600 hp of damage in a single strike, but players have a max hp of less than a third of that.
It is obvious that the current max for stats will not forever be the ultimate limit.
From the announcement of the wipe, I quote:
This means that in the first run, you will get quite powerful items. Those will most probably be removed with a wipe of objects a few weeks after the first, when all controls will be present.
And from the thread of that announcement, the second post is from the Dev, Jorrit:
Originally posted by jorrit
A bit of clarification. There will probably be two wipes. The first big wipe will occur at the same time as the update. Everything will be wiped then (characters, items, everything).
In a few weeks (i.e. the traditional PlaneShift \'soon\' :-) there will \'probably\' be another smaller wipe where all items will be removed. This is only needed if the generated items turn out to be too powerful and we need balancing there.
Greetings,
There is no problem here that requires a character wipe.
There are only those who wish to wipe the characters of others.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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Oh please. At first I really enjoyed your posts, Dark Lady, but you seem to use your gift of poetry in most unsavory ways sometimes. How about we all get off our high horses.
Originally posted by Verrliit
Heaven forbid, that some might have been exceptional, and done much better than others. That is intolerable, and must be made impossible to achieve. Let the stories and the artistry and passion and effort of the players be damned. They have no importance or value.
Stories? Artistry? Passion? Passion of what, exactly, gluing yourself to the computer for days and nights, clicking buttons to attain the highest possible number of some stat without which your character cannot be roleplayed? Yes, by all means Verrliit, heaven forbid that some might have been exceptionally without any other task to attend in their lives so that they would max a few skills in a pre-alpha tech demo in a matter of days and then complain about \"discovering\" that the pre-alpha tech demo is in a TESTING stage. Lordy.
Do you go around slaughtering people, Verrliit? Gather a group of other characters around yourself and butcher a few Trepors to show that your skill in weapons exceeds all? Constantly? What skill is so important that you cannot be yourself without it? I honestly and genuinely do not understand, and request an explanation. This format of RP is alien to me.
If you have your way, this world will become a bowl of oatmeal, bland and tasteless, unsurprising and uninspired.
Hi. Do you know me? Do you know my character\'s own story? Her own world and personality? Maybe find it able to rival your own? If you keep thinking that you are the only person with an \"artistic\" vision here, it\'s time to change your view.
The Devs announced that character stats and skills would be the only thing that would survive the second wipe, which would follow by a matter of weeks. Only a fool would ignore that, and fail to push their development as far as they could.
The devs are not gods, Verrliit, no matter how much they may be worshipped. They are very capable of making mistakes, and promises that may not be fulfilled. This has been proven in the past. You are not entitled to anything, by any means. The only thing you are paying with is your time, which you have voluntarily given, and are not owed for. If the dev team decides that the current balance must be adjusted and a wipe of stats is the way to do this, you have no right to argue. No one has any right. And you have no idea how many hours I myself have given to this game, so before you start with your \"You\'re-just-so-inconsiderate-of-all-those-who-dedicated-their-life-hours-to-this\" rant, remember that.
I also point out that there are now weapons that can do over 600 hp of damage in a single strike, but players have a max hp of less than a third of that.
Yes. Hi. Balance issue? Need for adjustment? Thanks.
There is no problem here that requires a character wipe.
There are only those who wish to wipe the characters of others.
I would very much like to see you drop your persecution complex. And read a few of Xordan\'s posts.
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Originally posted by Verrliit
The Devs have stated that the reason for wiping the characters, was because the format of the new progression framework was incompatible with the old database.
No, the reason isn\'t that at all. Nothing like it in fact.
Originally posted by Verrliit
It is obvious that the current max for stats will not forever be the ultimate limit.
No it won\'t be, but it\'s well on its way there.
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Its not a promise, but I can see how people could have iterpreted it that way.. The obvious implication is that the attempt to do it when they were sure they wouldnt have to do it again has failed.
Well at that time we were only going to have one wipe. Then it turned into one big one and one small one. Maybe now that small one will be another big one, I don\'t know. I do know that we expected to have to wipe again in the future anyway.
Originally posted by Verrliit
There is no problem here that requires a character wipe.
I think that the amount of people who have got 150\'s in their stats so quickly is enough reason, but it isn\'t my decision overall. I dislike any powergaming at all which might be biasing my reasoning. People should develop their character as they play, not write a history of when they were weak and want to start off powerful.
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Heaven forbid, that some might have been exceptional, and done much better than others. That is intolerable, and must be made impossible to achieve. Let the stories and the artistry and passion and effort of the players be damned. They have no importance or value.
Actually Verrliit Im not sure if you were exceptional at anything. I seen what you were doing.. before all the monsters became bugged. As myself and many others had to fight the trepor because they always attacked us.. you sat at one killing it all day and it never fought back. Everyone you killed by yourself never attacked you. and remember when we partied that one time... it did attack you and killed you if I am not mistaken. This really has no point... but people who were cheating the entire way please do not act as if you were exceptional at anything. Plainly, you cheated... but either way its not going to matter because as of now when the monsters no longer fight back against anyone I guarantee there will be a wipe.. pffft.. finally I agree with Xordan on something :D
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Stories? Artistry? Passion? Passion of what, exactly, gluing yourself to the computer for days and nights, clicking buttons to attain the highest possible number of some stat without which your character cannot be roleplayed? Yes, by all means Verrliit, heaven forbid that some might have been exceptionally without any other task to attend in their lives so that they would max a few skills in a pre-alpha tech demo in a matter of days and then complain about \"discovering\" that the pre-alpha tech demo is in a TESTING stage. Lordy.
Yes, well done Karyuu, anybody in here can play the \"You have no life because you waste so much time playing PS\" card. What have you spent your time doing? Standing around talking? Just because someone else spends their time in game actually doing something doesnt mean it\'s anymore wasted then someone who does nothing. There is very little anyone in here could attest to as being productive time spent in PS, unless you are one of the Devs and you are spending that time debugging.
And you have no idea how many hours I myself have given to this game, so before you start with your \"You\'re-just-so-inconsiderate-of-all-those-who-dedicated-their-life-hours-to-this\" rant, remember that.
And yet, she is the one \"gluing [her]yourself to the computer for days and nights\"? If you would kindly enlighten me as to how your time spent somehow elevates you above hers? I dont quite get that statement really. Not to mention the irony of telling someone to remember something which they \"have no idea\" about, is somewhat bemusing. I\'ll assume that part just came out badly.
The issue as I see it is rather delicate and balanced. On one hand, no one expects that the characters we have now will completly travel over to the eventual release. However, there is some expectation of reward for putting in effort and testing now, and not just have the devs wipe at whim. Im all for there being wipes to fix bugs etc, but I still think an effort should be made to reward players for being in game. We all saw how the number of players dropped off dramatically when the first wipe was announced. What was most ironic for me, was that in those final few weeks there were many more Power-levellers, compared to Roleplayers in game. In fact, the only people left playing were the Powerlevellers and the newbies, by and large. Why? Because everybody wants rewards for their efforts, and wants it to be carried over. While I disagree with the whole \"You\'re not allowed to take my character away\" Mentality, I think the statement \"There are those who only wish to Wipe the characters of Others\" is extremely true. When I look at some of the \"roleplayers\" complaining about powerlevellers, I think to myself, Why do you even care? They hardly bother you. Everyone (with a good amount of sense) realises by now that there will be One, if not many major wipes between now and the eventual release. And yet, does this deter powerlevellers? No. Why? Because we\'re having fun. Roleplayers enjoy chatting for hours on end, forging friendships, building character. Powerlevellers enjoy attacking things, conquering things, showing off, challenging other powerlevellers. Stats and character building are only the end product of this, and if you think thats what is enjoyable about powerlevelling, then you have no idea. Just ignore them, for christ sakes. Go out and do your roleplaying thing and forget about them. For all the things said against powerlevellers, in my mind, 80% of fights on the forums here are started by the other party. (Not nessecarily here, but in general) Given the game in its current situtation, it is possibly the most Roleplayer friendly mmorpg in existence. So utilise that, and stop complaining about everyone else.
[/hypocritical rant]
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Yes, well done Karyuu, anybody in here can play the \"You have no life because you waste so much time playing PS\" card. What have you spent your time doing? Standing around talking? Just because someone else spends their time in game actually doing something doesnt mean it\'s anymore wasted then someone who does nothing.
I never said I did nothing ;) I never said I haven\'t enjoyed increasing my skills and stats as well. I never said that I am thankful that I have lost it all and will lose it again. I just know that it is necessary, and I personally think that the argument of \"I have spent this many hours in-game, I am so dedicated, so please reward me,\" is silly. But that\'s just me.
However, there is some expectation of reward for putting in effort and testing now, and not just have the devs wipe at whim. Im all for there being wipes to fix bugs etc, but I still think an effort should be made to reward players for being in game.
I would think that the relationships and friendships and adventures forged would be reward enough? How would you go about fairly rewarding people, ramlambmoo? If you have suggestions, please share them. I certainly can\'t think of any at this time.
We all saw how the number of players dropped off dramatically when the first wipe was announced. What was most ironic for me, was that in those final few weeks there were many more Power-levellers, compared to Roleplayers in game.
Indeed, because a lot of roleplayers feared the onslaught of those powerlevelers and newbies who at last let out a joyous \"YAY! COMBAT!\" I know that I\'ve avoided the game for the first week after its release. Not knowing anyone who left because they didn\'t get a \"reward\" for their time, I cannot comment on the rest. The people who were close to me that decided to let PS go found other hobbies and jobs that kept them busy and away. I don\'t deny that many could have left because of the wipe, but I think that it is a silly reason for leaving anyway. For roleplayers especially.
When I look at some of the \"roleplayers\" complaining about powerlevellers, I think to myself, Why do you even care? They hardly bother you.
Karyuu walks through the tavern doors to the courtyard outside, stretching and yawning freely. Sleepily she makes her way to Hydlaa\'s central plaza, and is immediately faced with a Klyros and Ynnwn in a heated battle, shouting out abtuse numbers and stabbing each other whenever the chance presents itself. Distraught and confused, Karyuu slowly inches away from the pair until the Klyros has slain his opponent and turned to face her, challenging her without any offered reason or show of emotion. \"But I haven\'t done anything to you, birdman,\" she quickly retorts, ire rising, declining his offer. \"I don\'t even know who you are. What is the meaning of this?!\" The Klyros at last made an attempt at a reply: \"lol ur no fun. wuts ur sword lvl?\"
Just another day in Hydlaa, thought Karyuu.
Fun? It can be. Aggravating? Far more often. Breaking RP realism? There is only so much you can ignore. You cannot argue that powerleveling does not harm anyone.
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I never said I did nothing ;) I never said I haven\'t enjoyed increasing my skills and stats as well. I never said that I am thankful that I have lost it all and will lose it again. I just know that it is necessary, and I personally think that the argument of \"I have spent this many hours in-game, I am so dedicated, so please reward me,\" is silly. But that\'s just me.
Yes, well I differ on the point of rewarding people for being in game. If I programmed a mmorpg, and someone said \"I\'ve spent this many hours in game testing your game\", well I\'d give them something. If I had thousands of people alpha testing my game, well I\'d probablly at least give them something virtual in game to reward them, thats the least you can do. But hey, thats just me.
I would think that the relationships and friendships and adventures forged would be reward enough? How would you go about fairly rewarding people, ramlambmoo? If you have suggestions, please share them. I certainly can\'t think of any at this time.
I\'d implement a logarithmic scale of reward that transfers your skill and tria over during each wipe. The transferring would give players a reward for being in game, and the logarithmic part would prevent abuse by Powerlevellers and Bug exploiters. Actually, thats a pretty damn good idea... I\'m going to go post that in the suggestions forum.
Indeed, because a lot of roleplayers feared the onslaught of those powerlevelers and newbies who at last let out a joyous \"YAY! COMBAT!\" I know that I\'ve avoided the game for the first week after its release. Not knowing anyone who left because they didn\'t get a \"reward\" for their time, I cannot comment on the rest. The people who were close to me that decided to let PS go found other hobbies and jobs that kept them busy and away. I don\'t deny that many could have left because of the wipe, but I think that it is a silly reason for leaving anyway. For roleplayers especially.
Yes, well I can only comment on what I saw, and that was a marked decrease in the number of Roleplayers (and people in general) online in the weeks and months after the release of CB. Now, there certaintly weren\'t, as you pointed out, any reasons for roleplayers who didnt care about rewards to leave, which leaves two options: Either Roleplayers and the general Public just got bored with Planeshift, or they did in fact, at some level, care about their characters and stats being transferred. And I certaintly hope it isnt the first.
Fun? It can be. Aggravating? Far more often. Breaking RP realism? There is only so much you can ignore. You cannot argue that powerleveling does not harm anyone.
Yes, but how often does that happen? Often enough to make the jump from annoyance to harm? I think i\'ve been challenged three times since the database wipe. I wont deny theres a problem, but its a small problem, and, quite frankly, I really dont see how it could get any better- Compare it to some other online games, I think the deal roleplayers have here is pretty sweet, if the worst it comes to is the occasional /ignore and having your Challenge on autodecline.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Karyuu walks through the tavern doors to the courtyard outside, stretching and yawning freely. Sleepily she makes her way to Hydlaa\'s central plaza, and is immediately faced with a Klyros and Ynnwn in a heated battle, shouting out abtuse numbers and stabbing each other whenever the chance presents itself. Distraught and confused, Karyuu slowly inches away from the pair until the Klyros has slain his opponent and turned to face her, challenging her without any offered reason or show of emotion. \"But I haven\'t done anything to you, birdman,\" she quickly retorts, ire rising, declining his offer. \"I don\'t even know who you are. What is the meaning of this?!\" The Klyros at last made an attempt at a reply: \"lol ur no fun. wuts ur sword lvl?\"
Just another day in Hydlaa, thought Karyuu.
This has got to be the funniest thing I\'ve seen all day. Well done, and I heartily agree with the message. But by the same token, you must realize that the way PS is designed means that it incorporates actual, real game mechanics with roleplaying. When you\'re doing purely text-based roleplaying, you can get stupid things like this:
\"Darigaan slowly unsheathes his sword. Suddenly, before you can blink, he is behind you, and with a thrust of his blade, knocks you to the floor, leaving you pinned helplessly.\"
\"[Uhum...what if I have something to say about that? Kalya is faster than Darigaan could hope to be, and yet as she blinks (even though she is alert and watching him intently), he manages to move faster than she could conceive of him doing? I don\'t think so.]\"
You see, everyone has a vision for their character, and everyone wants to be the best. A person\'s imagination has no limits. But game mechanics like those of Planeshift force everyone to live within a set of defined rules. There\'s no \"I kick your sorry butt and there\'s nothing you can do about it.\" You don\'t say, you do. If you can, you can, and if you can\'t, you can\'t, case closed. If you want to be strong, get strong, don\'t just talk about it. For anyone who says that powerleveling has no place in roleplaying, nor is it excused by roleplaying, Verrliit is living proof that you are dead wrong.
What has no place in roleplaying is real-world mentalities, slang, and metagaming (which in this case means talking about \"hit points,\" \"damage points,\" \"damage rating,\" etc, as if anyone can look at a person or object and magically know these mysterious numbers that explain the universe). Carrying those things into the game with you is the very opposite of roleplaying, and the people who do this, together with being pompous and insufferable company, are the ones who have created the stereotype of \"powergaming\" that has so many people infuriated. Not those like Verrliit, who are good company as people, and pleasingly passionate about their roleplaying and their characters. However much you may think them to be \"lifeless losers,\" such people are a boon to the community (and you have no idea what their lives may consist of, anyway). What almighty, divine authority gives anyone the right to judge the way that a person lives his or her life? Clearly, if a person is well-off enough to spend a majority of their time, even in the place of sleep, playing computer games over the internet, then there\'s not much to be worried about, and it is nobody\'s place but ones own to decide what is an adequate and appropriate way of expressing one\'s passions. I think that Verrliit has taken a lot of heat and a lot of insults from many of you that she does not deserve.
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Actually, thats a pretty damn good idea... I\'m going to go post that in the suggestions forum.
Well, at least something good came from this thread ;)
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As a relative newcomer, it\'s been rather entertaining to read this thread. I think it\'s great to see so many people being so passionate about a game.
I know, it\'s not just *a game*, it\'s .
But seriously, I can see why people get emotional about their characters. I\'ve only been playing for a couple of weeks (and sporadically at that); I\'ve only just yesterday advanced from rats to fanatics. But I\'ve put a fair amount of thought into my character\'s back story and personality. I haven\'t been online enuough to make much use of it, but even so it will be a bummer to have to \"start over\". For me it would be easy to start from scratch; I don\'t have that many skills or items to begin with. But it still is a shame to have \"wasted\" that time I did put in.
I think for a lot of people it is a personal thing: they regret the loss of stats, or items, or the time spent building their character, but they also regret the *loss of the character itself*. Sure, you can recreate it, but is it the *same* character, or is it a different person with the same name? It seems like a silly question (since it\'s part of a computer program, and doesn\'t actually *exist*), but I can see where people who spend a lot of time role-playing would get a personal attachment to their characters.
There has been quite a bit of discussion about the difference between \"role players\" and \"power-levelers\", and who belongs to which group. I think that anyone who was just interested in power-leveling wouldn\'t be taking the time to post in these forums as much as they do. Sure, there are people playing PS who are \"undesirable\", but I doubt many of them would bother to take the time to come here. The one thing that everyine here seems to have in common is a genuine concern for the well being of the game; there are just different opinions on the \"correct\" way to go about it.
I really think any problems with the \"undesirable element\" really won\'t start until the game itself is quite a bit more fleshed out. Right now, there isn\'t all that much to do: relatively few weapons, no massive PvP areas, etc. If I was just into hacking and slashing and PKing, I would take one look at PS today and say \"this sux! im outta here!\"
Which, in my opinion, is a very good thing. I just hope the devs can keep the balance such that this will be a desirable place for role-players, and an undesirable one for \"them\".
That\'s the $0.02 from the n00b
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Personally I have to wonder how threads such as these are started in the first place. Why should any player have any right at all to even THINK about arguing when they are taking full advantage of someone elses work. It is completely up to the creators to make descisions and you must realize that have such a first hand experience, They are DEFINITELY going to have better decision making skills on the future of the game that any planeshifter. It is not any players game in the first place; you did not have to purchase it, or dedicate any of your time to its construction, so how could you have a right to complain? This is very comparitive to something as ridiculous as asking your neighbor to repaint his/her house becuase that color does not suit your taste. So I will ask again, why are threads such as these allowed to exist? Is it because Planeshift is so much of a democracy that negativeity should be allowed to raise so much discussion. I find this irritating that this happens so often. So I must stress, PLEASE post constructive critisism and benificial work to the forums. Your voice should be heard, but not if its blatant whining.
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There is another good thing that has come of this thread.
Ramlambmoo, your perceptivity and thoughtful consideration are appreciated.
Regardless of any difference of opinion on technical issues that we may have, I am pleased to have encountered you, and would welcome further interaction in-game.
As for Karyuu,
I am sorry to disappoint you, but I do not feel threatened by you at all.
I have no need to force my opinions and desires down the throats of all about me. I simply voice them.
I do not insist that all must agree with me, as you do.
If my poetry was able to create in you an emotional response of any kind at all, then it has performed well indeed.
It is too bad that you do not value that which moves you to feel.
If you read my posts again, you will find that I have already answered your last questions of me.
You were too busy attempting to belittle me to notice.
I am refreshed, and entertained. You inspire me.
I become Cyrano, confronted by an opponent who lacks even the skill to insult him properly.
Behold!
I poke you.
Balloon of self-importance that you are.
The tiniest of pin-pricks.
You whizz away, deflated and in disarray.
There is no rejoinder that will redeem you.
I defeat you with Art.
You are defenseless.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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The Devs have invited us to play in their sandbox.
Indeed.
Whatever floats your goat, Verrliit ;) Thanks for the fun.
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Conclusion: Everybody\'s wrong! It\'s the elitist rpers/chatters versus the elitist plers/duellers. And as for the rest of us, well... :-D
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Actually I think its more a mix of \"elitist extremist RPers\" and \"Normal RPers\" and \"PLers\" and \"Thinkers\" Hmm. :rolleyes:
As you see from this thread, this sort of community splitting is what comes from wipes. Now I know that the devs will ignore this entire topic and decide what\'s best for the community but I honestly think all of you guys should calm down and play along with the dev\'s decisions. I still think that the wipe is not of the greatest use, but I am distraught that this has turned into a \"PL versus RP\" thread.
Now I agree that people who go \"L0l n00b wuts ur swd l3v3l?\" should be pounded down, as well as those that make an ubercharacer and challenge everyone. However, I think you exteme-RPers should accept the people who just prefer the occational duel and want to be able to lead the fight to kill an ulbernaut.. Those creatures were created for something, and that something is having fun as a group fighting and killing big strong monsters, so you should accept the people who like to do that, because that\'s not really any less RP than standing around talking. Standing around and talking is chat, not RP, in my opinion.
In all those glorious fantasy epics, there are great warriors that fight dragons and that sort of thing. What sort of drag would Fantasy books be if the strongest person ever to have lived could kill a rat? Pretty dang boring I would say.
What about Gandalf? What about Aragorn? What about Allanon, Bard, Dumbledore, Voldemort, The witch kings, Walker, the Ilse Witch, Anakin, Obi-wan, The Leahs, and all the countless hundreds and mabye even thousands of those powerful warriors, mages and archers? How fun would all of those books be without those characters?
Take a look now. The dividing line between PL and RP is not very definite. There are shades of grey (As well as white and black, take a look at the post beginning)
Go take a look at the post \"RP and PL deliberation\". It explains it all.
Now enough PL vs RP, back on topic.
I don\'t exactly understand how some of you think frequent wipes enforce RP. RP and wiping are two totally diffrent things. Standing around and talking is not RPing, its chatting.
RPing is building your character up, not just in strength but more importantly within your guild, in riches, and in friends! When more things are implemented, This will be even more profound as you build your guild up with guild land, buildings and even towns, you become famous, you have seige wars and big explorer quests!
Wipes do not help RPing at all. Like Eolius said earlier, before a wipe people stand around duelling each other and getting cranky and such. They don\'t exactly do much RP.
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There is a huge misconception that RP is nothing but \"chatting.\" Please, guys, at least read the RP and PL deliberation thread to familiarize yourself what RP really is. It is simply acting in-character. It is perfectly reasonable to do nothing but slay monsters and train your skills, but a -character- needs to be doing this, not the -player-. This is the distinction that must be made. For all of you who think that roleplayers stand around all day discussing their character histories, wake up! There are so many adventures that have already taken place and are still continuing, with moving, fighting, traveling characters. Please don\'t ignore this.
As for the wipes enforcing RP, I too cannot see this. In my opinion it actually does the opposite.
Originally posted by Neryam
RPing is building your character up, not just in strength but more importantly within your guild, in riches, and in friends!
Precisely! But you cannot do this if your entire day is spent being antisocial, clicking away at the attack button the second a Tefusang spawns, for weeks and weeks and weeks. The only way a wipe could approach being beneficial is that it preserves the friendships and relationships formed. Nothing can take that away.
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you have no right to argue. No one has any right.
LMAO
my god, Karyuu saying nobody has the right to argue LOL
No further comments this is abviously someone to involved to even see what one is writing LMAO
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I meant argue with the devs, Pestilence. Thanks. I\'ll try to be clearer next time.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I meant argue with the devs, Pestilence. Thanks. I\'ll try to be clearer next time.
We can argue, suggest, and comment as much as we like since we\'re playtesters. :-D
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I stand corrected :>
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Hehe :P Though, I still think the devs are pretty much gonna ignore this thread now.. :rolleyes:
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Hehe Though, I still think the devs are pretty much gonna ignore this thread now..
now?
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wow... you people scare me... but then I scare me to so...
Anyway... I don\'t like wipes. On the other hand, I don\'t dislike wipes. Where does that leave me? Floating in a big gray bubble? The way a lot of you people talk there is no gray area here, so do I then not exist, and if I\'m not mistaken there was at least one other person who was relatively neutral on this issue. As for people who\'s character is, in the spirit of the character stronger than all else, there would be no change. Would your habits in RL change any? Would you spend any more or less time in Yliakum if you had to recreate your stats? I doubt it. On the other hand, people who think that combat is not in the spirit of RP (ever played a pen and paper RPG where you didn\'t fight something? Me neither) stand to lose much more than people who would lose stats. Think about it, we all know we lost people around the first wipe. These characters who spend their entire existence doing no crafts (which sort of require at least a little combat to start) have nothing but others. Those others could easily disapeer or change their names, then where are they? On the other hand, warriors, miners, ect. know so many more people and are already familiar with the lay of the land. I am, in game, Arew Silverwing of VanGuard. I was once third in command of a guild of roughly 30 people. Now I can only find 3 members of old VanGuard whose names even still exist. If I didn\'t know anything about Yliakum, and spent all my time living in Kada-els (something I did on occasion) just being Lieutenant Arew, where would I be as the current leader of VanGuard? I haven\'t seen a lot of people in Kada-els recently, so who I try to recruit to the VanGuard? It\'s easier to bounce back having done a little of everything. The other big problem that people have with wipes seems to be the character themselves... If you don\'t want your character to change, use the exact same choices. Write down your parents name, and you can see character creation choices, if I recall correctly, simply by looking at your characters description. I know it\'s hard to lose, what is, let\'s face it, someone who you know and who ultimately knows you better than any one else, but think about the alternatives. Has any one here ever created a character in SpoonScape(thx for the name Moogie)? It consists of picking a name(usually a random assortment of letters and numbers, back when I played I saw someone whos username looked like they smacked the keyboard in frustration) and picking from a couple of different shirts and hair styles, which no one allows to be seen anyway and wear armor all the time. Given that, I would rather create Arew Silverwing, and even the VanGuard, 1000 times than force him to live in a world like that.
Ok... I\'m done rambling now...;P
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Originally posted by Pestilence
I agree with the first wipe and can life with the second.
Although I have to say I think it\'s kinda strange to wipe now when we didn\'t when some people got over 7 mil in tria with the MB-CB migration. Now that was an absurd amount of advantage.
It was actually back then when we decided we needed a wipe. This wipe has been in planning for a LOONG time already. It is just that we delayed it until we were relatively sure that things were stable enough.
Greetings,
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LOL planning for over half a year. ;)
I know that was when. Just think it should have done then righ away and same now.
I mean sure we are only testers and all that, but just seems so pointless to earn money and stuff is nothing stays. My characters development is something I am proud of. I like making him a good swordsmen
And although the stories still remain. The fact he is made a newb sword fighter again is going to devalue those aswell as the stories no longer fit what he can actually do ingame.
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I rose through the ranks of my first guild to be 2nd in command of a guild of 15-20 people. Then in my second guild I rose through the ranks to be a second in command of a guild of a little over 20 people. Now in my third guild I\'ve risen to be a second in command of a guild with over 50 people.
What does it mean? You tell me. Does a wipe erase my history? Not at all! After the wipe I\'ll have the same devious but charming reputation, the same misguided enemies, and the same true of heart friends. A simple wipe can\'t take that away.
But run off with one damned axe.... :-D
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Hehe Though, I still think the devs are pretty much gonna ignore this thread now..
now?
Good point :P
Originally posted by zanzibar
I rose through the ranks of my first guild to be 2nd in command of a guild of 15-20 people. Then in my second guild I rose through the ranks to be a second in command of a guild of a little over 20 people. Now in my third guild I\'ve risen to be a second in command of a guild with over 50 people.
What does it mean? You tell me. Does a wipe erase my history? Not at all! After the wipe I\'ll have the same devious but charming reputation, the same misguided enemies, and the same true of heart friends. A simple wipe can\'t take that away.
But run off with one damned axe.... :-D
Hey wait a minute.. I\'m 2nd-in command.. check the Permissions/member\'s list X( :P
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Originally posted by Neryam
Originally posted by ramlambmoo
Hehe Though, I still think the devs are pretty much gonna ignore this thread now..
now?
Good point :P
Originally posted by zanzibar
I rose through the ranks of my first guild to be 2nd in command of a guild of 15-20 people. Then in my second guild I rose through the ranks to be a second in command of a guild of a little over 20 people. Now in my third guild I\'ve risen to be a second in command of a guild with over 50 people.
What does it mean? You tell me. Does a wipe erase my history? Not at all! After the wipe I\'ll have the same devious but charming reputation, the same misguided enemies, and the same true of heart friends. A simple wipe can\'t take that away.
But run off with one damned axe.... :-D
Hey wait a minute.. I\'m 2nd-in command.. check the Permissions/member\'s list X( :P
I\'m ~a~ second in command, at least as far as the ranks go. As far as I\'m concerned, my official rank is still \"Shalmaneser\".
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Recently the NPC AI has gone braindead, which means that no monsters are attacking back. Everyone is camping looting and selling and training, some of the most vocal people in this thread included. Whether they did this just for fun or to test their character, does not matter at this point. I do not think that anyone can disagree that a wipe of skills and stats is necessary. People are gaining things they should not be gaining with this.
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The evilness has reached the official forums...
The first version was that npcclient.exe didn\'t load quickly enough so all monsters were impervous to attack, but, after a while, the normal state was achieved...
But now, what\'s the reality? /puts some dramatic background music
You simply erased the monsters hability to defend themselves to provide a consistent argument for a complete second wipe!
/me gets cold due to the scary of the thought
-Comment about the whole thread:
It started as a sharing of opinions, if a second complete wipe should be done, or only an inventory one. It ended into another discussion between rp and pl...
-Topic Related and yes, some off topic too:
I shared the thought, prior the first wipe, that the second planed one would be another complete one. IMO the error was in the first one, it was predictable that many bugs would arise, as many things had been changed.
Ideally, the game should have selective updating; at the moment, whenever an update comes, i think all the advances made at the cvs are implemented till a defined date, that makes the risk of bugs to appear rise. But, honestly, having an updating tool is more than we could expect at this point of the developement, at least we don\'t have to redownload the whole package again.
Now I don\'t recall the exact reason, but, as Verrliit I think said, I too remember that the first wipe was argued because it was imperative in order to work with the new things that were going to be implemented.
Also, wiping should be always considered as a last chance; also we should prevent spreading the thought of \"the wipe will end with this situation\" I\'ve heared many people expecting the wipe, like if the wipe was going to be the solution to everything. A wipe isn\'t a solution to nothing, the solution to game related problems it\'s called debugging; the solution to lack of roleplaying experience \"due to those pl\" (sic) is give everyone a chance to roleplay.
There have been some things bad focused, specially with that pl vs rp thing; I really wouldn\'t like to arise the discussion again but, most commonly the argument is:
- Don\'t pl because we\'ll wipe you, and all you\'d have gained will be lost. You can try to rp or leave the game.
This isn\'t a way of driving things I can agree on. It\'s like teaching someone with: \"don\'t go there, or i\'ll hit you\". Instead, make the \"pupil\" choose to rp, not because it\'s his/her only chance, but because it\'s the better and funniest option of them all. In other words, rp has to be _necessarily_ more attractive than clicking the mouse to kill a monster that doesn\'t require anything else, really no challenging.
But then again, there are some players that _need_ their stats to _fit_ what they\'re roleplaying, and although it isn\'t necessary, it can be perfectly understood. Just imagine someone that claims to be a strong warrior, another one lends him/her a Claymore but the first one is unable to handle it because of the weight...
The best way to distinguish between those that camp a monster because they \"enjoy\" the fighting challenge and those others that do the same, to achieve what they think their characters needs to be properly played is simply a conversation with the specified person _in game_, really it doesn\'t take that much time.
To whoever has reached the ending, I\'ll add a Post Scriptum with a little funny ironic things, look I almost ended the post the way I started it ;)
PS: When asked about a player about why attacking if the monster wasn\'t able to defend, he answered me a big truth, even if the monster could, would have died anyway; as that char was by far more powerful than the monster he/she was killing.
Also, about Ulbernauts, the same one told me that saw people trying to kill them but, well, the Ulbernaut hp regeneration speed was faster than the hability of the little hunters to infringe it damage.
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Im totally powerleveling on this!
Stay away from my camping spot!
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What?! Have you even read anything? :<
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I am new and feel discouraged from playing because of the server-down. Does this happen often? Is there lag on it?
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no lag, the jumpingness, if any is due to your sucky hardware, if any.
server goes down once in a while, its a GOOD thing, means we found something bad and fixing it, or its gone deaded and we havent noticed :)
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Originally posted by Nilrem
...
- Don\'t pl because we\'ll wipe you, and all you\'d have gained will be lost. You can try to rp or leave the game.
This isn\'t a way of driving things I can agree on. It\'s like teaching someone with: \"don\'t go there, or i\'ll hit you\". Instead, make the \"pupil\" choose to rp, not because it\'s his/her only chance, but because it\'s the better and funniest option of them all. In other words, rp has to be _necessarily_ more attractive than clicking the mouse to kill a monster that doesn\'t require anything else, really no challenging.
...
True. Devs/GMs are using baculine arguments, but give too few carrots ;). I see big discordance between their aims and methods...
Arrghh... Why am I writing here ? I promised to myself not to do it! It is unnecessary IMO. I really belive, that Devs/GMs/Mods are doing everything to make all good players happy :)
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I am new here but I must say I think a second wipe would not be wrong.
The only question I have is \"Can someone say me when the wipe will be?\". I know this can not be said exactly but I just want to know will it in a week in a month or will it take more than a month.
When someone asked the same question in this thread then I must say sorry for asking again. But I would be happy when someone can say it again.
Thanks
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Originally posted by Neryam
What?! Have you even read anything? :<
Not really, i just find it funny when people freak out on a non issue such as this one. I mean i thought it was funny to see a bunch of guys all alone attacking trepors with their fists at 2.56 damage at a time taking them about half an hour to kill them. Hell even i went out to kill some consumers, just for kicks (oh and the trias muahahaha).
So they get 10pp ... it\'s not reallly a big deal, not with this badass lvling system. The problem here i think is some people\'s egos.
Levels are not important for the general gameplay at this stage of development.
A wipe would just piss off people.
My 0.02?
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Havox,
The problem is that if people become too attached to their stat and skill gains at this point in time, it will be even harder to convince them to let go in future, more serious wipes. The more they gain, the more reluctant they are to lose. Not only that, but this -is- a place where people play as well as test, and some sort of game goes on. If we have people running around with bugged, exploited accounts, it upsets the balance and upsets the testing process. With every couple of adjustments, new fair tests must be run to see how the normal character progression is supposed to run, as well as let people enjoy a cheater-free environment. What kind of playerbase will PlaneShift attract if people notice that exploits are not taken care of and players can take advantage of bugs without consequences?
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But it was taken care of as far as i know.
It only lasted a few hours yesterday, haven\'t logged in today. Not enough in my opinion to damage the \"balance\". And besides people need to get over the fact that this is not yet a game, like many have pointed out this is more of a techdemo than anything else at this point. If things get wiped again it\'l be bad because people will loose all the shinny things that make being in planeshift less ... what\'s the word? ... vanilla. I mean, everyone looks the same, everyone has the same items (they all look the same), that\'s a major hint as this is yet very experimental and unfinished (it\'s been like this for years now). If they are too attached to their skills or envolved in a sort of \"game\" to see who has the biggest \"level\" too bad for\'em.
I think it\'s great that these exploits/bugs show up in this early stage.
I bet there will be more bugs/exploits showing up in the future.
Even commercial games have\'em from time to time.
Im not saying you should neglect dealing with cheaters/exploits user, im saying that in this case it\'s not worth the hassle.
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It\'s not a hassle at all. The players make the hassle when they try to cling to the goods the exploits have given them. You haven\'t addressed my point about the playerbase such things may be attracting, however. Either way, I think this is a silly argument that I lose the energy for quickly, so I\'m going to end it unless something else catches my eye :) Maybe someone else will say what I want to say at 5:30 in the morning.
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Yep the player make the hassle. This \"game\" is made of players more than anything else.
I dont think this sort of thing will attract any hardcore powerlvler from other game(s) ... they would login and then logout. This game aint got a use for highlvl players.
I agree that this discussion is silly but it\'s lunch hour here and im bored. :P
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Originally posted by Havox
This game aint got a use for highlvl players.
So the great majority of everyone is striving to max out their skills because... ;)
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sheer stupidity imho.
that and the whole \"my internet penis is this big\" complex.
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Originally posted by Havox
that and the whole \"my internet penis is this big\" complex.
Mine is this big:
<-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> x10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
:P
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Originally posted by Havox
that and the whole \"my internet penis is this big\" complex.
Mmmhmm...and what do you say about the female players doing this? (Don\'t answer that, for your own safety.)
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If you don\'t want him to answer, then why ask? 8)
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*boobies*
Just a wild guess.
HOw should i know? I dont get women; do you?
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I\'m not entirely certain, but I think that maybe, they don\'t understand themselves or us. That puts us ahead because at least we understand one gender...
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Right...
Someone close this... just let the devs do things the way they see fit. :rolleyes:
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Hear hear. If the devs did things as we see fit, boy would we be in trouble...
/me points at above comments... :D
Edit: Bizaar spelling errors.
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Originally posted by Havox
HOw should i know? I dont get women; do you?
Yes. Ask me to explain if you must, but I\'m not sure it\'s important. Or just ask Noxide about Uthavar (my IG name).
@Jakob: You just answered your own question by asking it. Don\'t you feel special? :P
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I wont ask you to explain.
But let me tell you, you should write a book or something.
Yes im pretty special, mommy used to tell me that all the time.