PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ziljaden on August 11, 2005, 04:12:31 pm
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I\'ve been doing a bit of mining recently and I\'ve become rather curious. What is really the benefit of selling ore? (So far I\'ve only been lucky enough to find gold, but I\'ll just have to look harder in other areas.) I\'ve been pondering something about the price of gold ore. 6 tria a pop? That\'s kinda low if you ask me. I mean, it\'s GOLD for crying out loud!
What are the going rates on ores these days? Iron, Gold, Plat., etc, etc, etc.
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Ore rates need to be increased tenfold, then mining might actually be worth something.
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In the (near ?) future we will be able to smelt the ores into bars with the furnace installed in Ojaveda. Gold bars will be worth much more.
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For the ores on non-precious metals six-twelve isn\'t too bad to ask for. But for precious metals such as gold and plat. they should be worth a crapload more! It would make mining worth it for a change! Besides the fact that you get enough XP to get by on from mining, it kinda stinks. Sadly I don\'t think that the smelting process will be coming around for a relatively long time - miners look to be the minority.
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What makes you say that gold and platinum are precious metals? The average market works like this: The more abundant a resource is, the less market value it has. Also, the more useful it is for potential buyers, the more market value it has. And vice versa. I don\'t think anyone knows what the market value for these ores are, as we have no clue how the PS economical market is laid out.
However. Let\'s not forget these are raw materials, and not finished products. Therefore they should sell for ridiculously small amounts of money, just like in REAL LIFE. Because manufacturing items from the raw material costs both time and money, the finished item should have a great increase in value.
It\'s all about balance, in real life you dont just go down to the \"magic shop\" and start digging out huge pieces of gold ore. It\'s a lot easier in PS, therefore it should be worth less in PS.
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Thanks for the input mister smarty pants.
In case you haven\'t noticed, this game isn\'t based 100% on what you can and can\'t do in the real world. For instance, there are no cat-like people, or people made of stone, or people with wings. Also, magic doesn\'t exist in the real world *gasp*. As far as the market, the real world market\'s prices go up and down with supply and demand. You can\'t mine one spot eternally and continue to get resources from it.
I\'m very well aware that this game is trying to have a sense of realism to it, but if I want something so realistic and heavily based of the real world - I would have gotten off my fat ass and walked outside! It\'s call a GAME for a reason.
Raw materials may be less valuable than the finished product, but 96 units of measure worth of gold and other bits? Six bucks is really cheap.
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Six bucks? its six trias, this game has a different economy and 6 trias is alot of money in the game comparing to how much farmers get on this game.. and as you said this is a game so why should it be realistic prices they can even make it 1 tria each if they want.
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If six trias is a lot of money, then I\'m rich. But a rich man doesn\'t have enough to buy a short sword. Where exactly would you farm anyhow? If they made gold ore one tria, that would be quite odd. Having rat hides six times as valuable as gold nuggets would be kinda rediculous.
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Alot of the prices in the Yliakum econime need serious adjustment. After all gold ore would be worth alot more than a very common rat hide. Just as a massive claymore should be worth more than a simple longsword.
Edit also if npcs would hold on to what you sell them for a little while after words instead of the items simply vanishing into oblivion (and the prices self adjusted acordingly) it would make a tremendous difference as to the value of certain items.
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Rat hides are pretty large. They\'re not normal rats, they\'re nearly as big as small COWS, or at least as pigs.
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
Alot of the prices in the Yliakum econime need serious adjustment.
Yup. It\'s something that will be done soon once crafting is ingame.
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Cool, so prices will be adjusted. sweetness. Thanx Xordan. but.. iv heard those words before and they take kinda long.. Once its in game means = not so soon hehe.
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Well Externals, The PS Timeline would somewhat like this.
*Disclaimer*This is meant as a joke, nothin more, please dont take it seriously*Disclaimer*
Implemented (Still one week to go) -> About to be implemented (3 weeks to a month) ->very soon (1 to 3 months) -> soon (tm) (3 months to 3 years) -> when the game is finished (fifteen decades)
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Remember that this is gold ore. In the (somewhere around 10 pounds) chunk of ore, there is probably no more than a 100th of an ounce of pure gold. This applies to the rest of the ores as well. After all, it will take 12 ores to make a single bar, this bar would be like a small strip.
Six tria makes perfect sence to me, what we need is the crafting to be implemented so that with adequate training and smelting of the ore, 12 ores will be worth 200 tria or more.
Xirius
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Originally posted by provisionist1
Remember that this is gold ore. In the (somewhere around 10 pounds) chunk of ore, there is probably no more than a 100th of an ounce of pure gold. This applies to the rest of the ores as well. After all, it will take 12 ores to make a single bar, this bar would be like a small strip.
Six tria makes perfect sence to me, what we need is the crafting to be implemented so that with adequate training and smelting of the ore, 12 ores will be worth 200 tria or more.
Xirius
Uhh the last time I checked most gold ore was mined from viens which are for the most part fairly pure. Talus however (large quantities of rick containing gold or other minerals) can contain anywheres from about 50% to 10% percentmineral content.
Besides just think about what your saying to take 100th of an ounce of gold out of a 10 pound rock would not even begine to cover the cost of mineing the gold much less the even more expensive process of extracing it.
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So, only 1 out of 1600 ounces of this gold ore is pure gold? Not likely. Also, a 12/100th pound ingot of gold? Really unlikely. Hatchnet is absolutely right, it wouldn\'t be anywhere near cost effective for that much work to produce that little.
The main point is, ore is underpriced.
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So I exaggerated on the amount of gold found in gold ore. However, I still maintain it is a fair price. Essentially from a game design standpoint, mining simple gold ore is stage one of crafting out of several (increasingly difficult) stages. The devs must make it cost effective for people to learn how to smelt ore into ingots, and they must make it cost effective to craft ingots into tools or weapons. Now, a load of 12 gold ore will get you 72 tria in the current system. Since a meal at Kada\'s is about 6 tria, this is a decent daily wage for an unskilled miner (apologies to all dwarves, I know how proud you are of your skills), also assuming you don\'t complete maybe three \"ore runs\" in a planeshift day.
For a skilled craftsman who has trained how to smelt and bought the book? I would say the 140 tria for a gold ingot is a decent price (I think it is about 140, I am not sure though). However, this is still just a blob of metal. For it to be even more valuable, it must be crafted. For this, the player must have trained in crafting respective weapon types, and as such, the amount they recieve on payment of a completed weapon must eventually be worth the training (after selling several weapons).
Remember as well that when all this is implemented there will exist a complete player-driven crafting economy. Newbies will not have had the money to train in smelting or crafting, so they will be doing the digging for ore. They will also be auctioning their ore for the best price to smelters and/or crafters, making money so that they can eventually rise in the ranks to be a blacksmith.
I am not sure which dev is designing this system... but I think they have done a very good job so far. When all the crafting is implemented, six tria for a gold ore will be a decent price (and respective prices with the other ores). The complaint then is that because the rest of the crafting system is not implemented, ore seems cheap and pointless. Finally rmember that this is a pre-alpha tech demo, they cannot raise the ore prices for now, then lower them later, it doesn\'t make sense.
Xirius
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Provisionist it aparently needs to be pointed out to you that with gold, unlike with other fineshed products such as steel, there is very little difference between the raw product and the finished product.
Here is the basics of gold ore extraction: The raw product is crushed and then washed to remove the excess rock. The crushed gold is then smelted to remove any remaining large imputrities and cast into bar.
Now I would like to point out that in RL raw gold is almost as valuble as processed gold and that the only value gold products such as jewlry have over processed gold is the quality of workmanship (which if poor enough can actualy lessen the value of the gold).
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Originally posted by provisionist1
Finally rmember that this is a pre-alpha tech demo,
If you ask me pre-alpha would be the basic programing stages and wouldn\'t be open for public testing yet. In my opinion it\'s more pre-beta if anything, because it isn\'t completely finished yet but is out for the public testing. That\'s just me though...
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Maybe they shouldn\'t have named it \"gold\", but given it a fantasy name without connection to the real world...
About the price: the price of an item or stuff is usually determined either by the rules of \"supply and demand\" (which don\'t yet apply in PS, because only NPCs want gold) or by the amount of money you needed to produce the stuff. And in PS, you don\'t need to invest much time or money to mine gold ore (it\'s as easy as searching mushrooms in the real world), so it\'s quite fair that the NPCs don\'t pay much.
When crafting is implemented, the gold price will be determined by supply and demand. Until then, a price of six trias just means that you can go digging instead of fighting rats.
Oliver