PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: beekmaster on August 17, 2005, 01:59:55 am
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In the interest of societal RPing and a bit of realism. What if there were projects that would require the whole community to pitch in and help.
There could be a huge monument to build, requiring materials from the miners, craftmanship from the craftsmen, and art from the artisans.
or as a sort of \"working for your updates\" thing you could have the people build something in order to get new features.
For example, before a new area is released people would need to dig a tunnel through the mountain/build a road, clear an area of enemies, and build some watch towers (or other buildings like shops and blacksmiths).
And when player owned houses are about to be released a \"municipal center of property deveopment\" would be commissioned.
I think it would be cool to have goals to achieve and progress to be made
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Seems a bit too hard to be able to do this but if its \"do\" able then by all means... its sounds excellent. But again i repeat, this seems like overkill to me.
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I agree 100% with Externals
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I agree with the above.Sexulant idea. :P
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I like this. A lot. Very nice idea and would foster RPing and community bonding.. And it would sort of be like a group quest right?
Mabye if a guild or two did it together, they could in a way take control of the land and build member\'s houses and a guild building in it, choose a location and stuff.. Mabye.. even build their own city!! That would save the devs trouble of thinking up new cities and would just be totally awesome.
\"The Valley of the Guild Knights\".. Mmmm :D
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Sadly It has a lot of problems. ;(
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planeshift could go on a completely differient way!
the world is now being contructed by the players themselfves!
the devs just make some landscape and building patches and then you can put blocks and stuff to make houses!
approval of devs is needed of course and to make it bug free. and they need to place npc\'s and make quests in the new area...
and yet again, such a glorious, imposissible idea.....
but if this \'engine\', because thats what it is, could be realized it will be much less work for the devs to actually make a big game.
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Devs will only make the world and the cities and the stuff it has.
Everything else will be made by players.
But I like Beekmaster\'s idea.
You see, devs implement the surface (wheeee! :D), then we don\'t just get access to it, nor the devs tell us it was implemented... we\'ll just dig a tunnel when we suspect it\'s done and tada! surface! =)
Same with other stuff that get implemented but have a barrier. The barrier wouldn\'t be broke by devs but by players... using \"/dig tunnel\" would remove the earth/rock/whatever from world and put it in inventory so we had to put it elsewhere and have loads of people working.
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Hey what makes it impossible?? It would actually make it easier for the devs in the long run, they only have to make a few permanant big np-towns and lots of landscape and the rest will be built by guilds and mabye players! There are many games that let you design your own buildings and stuff (example: Simcity 3000 & 4) and it shouldn\'t be any harder to do that in an MMORPG..
I mean each building would take say, At MOST 10 or 20 Megs and even if every single guild made one it would only come to a few gigs.. And the towns wouldn\'t take any more space than if the devs made each and every one. :D
@LordBug: Yeah! Thatd be a nice way for new land.. but what happens when we dig and it\'s not done yet? Mabye we\'d fall into a bottomless chasm or something lmao :D
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*stands by a huge construction site and watches an army of dwarves dig a tunnel. Suddenly ...
they all fall of the end of the world*
Whoops :P
The idea of the players making the world themselves is very good but it requires that the world, landscapewise is completely finished and bugfree.
I do like the initial suggestions though and think they could be introduced as special quests. Say the devs are going to implement a road leading from an unopened gate of Hydlaa. Then they put an NPC overseer at that gate who accepts the building materials for said road. In the meanwhile there will be a new material to mine, stone which can be sold to that NPC overseer. That way people get the feeling they \'re helping to build the world. I think it would provide us a closer connection to the world we play in.
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they all fall of the end of the world*
Whoops :P
Roflmao :D :D
Well, the digging could just dent the polygons a bit, and a bit more, until they reach the map edge then they hope for the best lmao :D That way the bugs should be relatively low.. I think
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Actually, since the game would be changing constantly.. it would probably cause even more bugs even more frequently. But hey, its all good.. seems like a nice idea. Good luck acheiving it. :D
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Originally posted by Neryam
they all fall of the end of the world*
Whoops :P
Roflmao :D :D
Well, the digging could just dent the polygons a bit, and a bit more, until they reach the map edge then they hope for the best lmao :D That way the bugs should be relatively low.. I think
I don\'t know if you \'ve ever been to the end of the world ... Some time ago I have been, in fact I even walked across the sides of the crystal all the way underneath Hydlaa. The ground we walk on now is actually just a very thin layer, like a piece of paper .. only sturdier thank Talad :P Anyway if we should start digging a tunnel in the current planeshift world we \'d fall through the ground after one shovel of dirt.
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i dunno about building houses or citys or somthing like that. seems a bit over kill to me but the idea of clearing an erea of monsters and building small things like aa black smiths or an outpost sounds very likeable indeed. of course you would have to have any nearby monsters attack the buildings as it would make sense that they would need defending from destruction. if left un defended the monsters would destroy them and repopulate. of course each area could only have a set amount of buildings ( say 2-5 ) to stop it from growing to large. little stop off along the way maybe.
but i dunno. it might be slightly over kill.
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Originally posted by Zan
*stands by a huge construction site and watches an army of dwarves dig a tunnel. Suddenly ...
they all fall of the end of the world*
Whoops :P
The idea of the players making the world themselves is very good but it requires that the world, landscapewise is completely finished and bugfree.
I do like the initial suggestions though and think they could be introduced as special quests. Say the devs are going to implement a road leading from an unopened gate of Hydlaa. Then they put an NPC overseer at that gate who accepts the building materials for said road. In the meanwhile there will be a new material to mine, stone which can be sold to that NPC overseer. That way people get the feeling they \'re helping to build the world. I think it would provide us a closer connection to the world we play in.
oh man i could see that so very clearly :P
but anyway like above i dont think that digging tunnels is a very \"wise\" idea. too indepth if you ask me. but like zan said help get building materials or somthing to create a bit. nothing special just build slightly and thats it. then you reduce the risk of bugs and the rest. keeping things simple works. it when you try to go too indepth that things mess up.
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Originally posted by Zan
I don\'t know if you \'ve ever been to the end of the world ... Some time ago I have been, in fact I even walked across the sides of the crystal all the way underneath Hydlaa. The ground we walk on now is actually just a very thin layer, like a piece of paper .. only sturdier thank Talad :P Anyway if we should start digging a tunnel in the current planeshift world we \'d fall through the ground after one shovel of dirt.
Yes I have been too, I fell when I tried to enter the sewer. :P What I mean is.. I\'ll try and draw a crude drawing.
\\
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\\\\\\__________
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/___________
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/
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Originally posted by Lordbug
Devs will only make the world and the cities and the stuff it has.
Everything else will be made by players.
But I like Beekmaster\'s idea.
You see, devs implement the surface (wheeee! :D), then we don\'t just get access to it, nor the devs tell us it was implemented... we\'ll just dig a tunnel when we suspect it\'s done and tada! surface! =)
Same with other stuff that get implemented but have a barrier. The barrier wouldn\'t be broke by devs but by players... using \"/dig tunnel\" would remove the earth/rock/whatever from world and put it in inventory so we had to put it elsewhere and have loads of people working.
that idea is certainly the coolest-possible idea.
but then the digging must take a few days because if it takes a few minutes with 10 players they will do it at night for example(if you live on the other side of the world of course :D)
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Of course. It would be more realistic and would foster community and talking too :D
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Hey what makes it impossible?? It would actually make it easier for the devs in the long run, they only have to make a few permanant big np-towns and lots of landscape and the rest will be built by guilds and mabye players! There are many games that let you design your own buildings and stuff (example: Simcity 3000 & 4) and it shouldn\'t be any harder to do that in an MMORPG..
I mean each building would take say, At MOST 10 or 20 Megs and even if every single guild made one it would only come to a few gigs.. And the towns wouldn\'t take any more space than if the devs made each and every one.
Actually, No its alot more complicated to do in a mmorpg, since you have more than one user accessing the one map at the same time. Say one person adds a house, for example. Then everyone else has to update their clients to get the new altered map. With the current setup, its just not feasible. Maybe in the long run, with quite a few changes. It\'s a good idea, but it would need some working on.
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Not true. With proper coding only this would be needed:
- The map is updated on the server
- New players entering the map load the new map
- Players already in the map do not see it until they leave the map
Or, mabye the thing would be built over time. Which would be better, in which case the server marks the area as under construction and lists the percentage done, and people can\'t enter the under construction area. They can still enter the map however, and players already in that under construction area when initiated would be teleported to the nearest point outside of it if by chance they are in it. That would work very well, an it would not lag anything. Would be no problem at all. :D
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Originally posted by dying_inside
i dunno about building houses or citys or somthing like that. seems a bit over kill to me but the idea of clearing an erea of monsters and building small things like aa black smiths or an outpost sounds very likeable indeed. of course you would have to have any nearby monsters attack the buildings as it would make sense that they would need defending from destruction. if left un defended the monsters would destroy them and repopulate. of course each area could only have a set amount of buildings ( say 2-5 ) to stop it from growing to large. little stop off along the way maybe.
but i dunno. it might be slightly over kill.
i think this is the best idea yet.
about monsters repopulating and so, that just makes sense.
i don\'t think building blacksmiths is a great idea, but outposts would be fine, so here my explanation:
one person carries a package, and the package is basicly an animation that\'s triggered when the area is clear and nobody stands on that piece of map. so the idea is that it\'s already IN the client of everybody, it just comes out at differient places.
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I still like towns. I mean, how do you have seige wars without towns??!! ?(
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Not true. With proper coding only this would be needed:
* The map is updated on the server
* New players entering the map load the new map
* Players already in the map do not see it until they leave the map
Or, mabye the thing would be built over time. Which would be better, in which case the server marks the area as under construction and lists the percentage done, and people can\'t enter the under construction area. They can still enter the map however, and players already in that under construction area when initiated would be teleported to the nearest point outside of it if by chance they are in it. That would work very well, an it would not lag anything. Would be no problem at all.
This doesnt make any sense. At some stage, everytime the map is changed by the players, people are going to have to update it next time they go in game, which would mean a lengthy download. I dont see how this solves anything.
Maybe Im getting confused... are you talking about a system where players build a town and then only after it is completed is it shown? Or just add a house here and add a house there? If its all added at once there would be less of a problem, except if players want to add huge sections of land, they should just join the dev team and design them themselves. I thought this system was referring to a realistic situation whereby a guild could like add a house to a city or something. Which has the problems I mentioned before.
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i think it\'s best to built in all the houses that you can built. or blocks, because they take less bandwith and can be updated evey second again when one is placed.
eveybody just get\'s a patch of land and you can buy a block by a store. you can hire things to carry more than 1 at the time.
you see people walking with that block(it\'s already in game, so there shoudn\'t be problems) just as you see swords.
then you can put it on your building patch, and then some sort of finecalibration lets you fit it perfectly.
i don\'t see why this is impossible, if there is a good team working on it. and it wont take up much bandwith either, because if you place a block and confirm it, it becomes part of the map, so you can\'t delete it anymore.
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@ramlambmoo There seems to be a bit of confusion.. I take it you\'re thinking the maps are stored locally on the computer? I don\'t think so because anyone with even a slightly outdated client would cause serious mayhem with other up-to-date people.. I was under the impression that maps are are always loaded from the server when you enter a new area.. :O Can someone clarify this?
As for the town thing, I would say it would be completely laid out first and then it goes under construction.. Also I say new guild houses, player houses and guild castles will not be in existing cities as it would be obstructive and the cities/towns are full anyway. Mabye you could buy a house in hydlaa though.. :D
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@ramlambmoo There seems to be a bit of confusion.. I take it you\'re thinking the maps are stored locally on the computer? I don\'t think so because anyone with even a slightly outdated client would cause serious mayhem with other up-to-date people.. I was under the impression that maps are are always loaded from the server when you enter a new area.. Can someone clarify this?
Maps are stored locally, and only updated when you run the updater. In fact, technically, you can run a completly different map, and connect to the server, and move around it, and the server wont know a thing, except perhaps notice that you are walking in a whole lot of places you shouldnt be. The reason being the maps are very big (in the mb at least); at this stage its just not feasible to download them everytime you connect.
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
@ramlambmoo There seems to be a bit of confusion.. I take it you\'re thinking the maps are stored locally on the computer? I don\'t think so because anyone with even a slightly outdated client would cause serious mayhem with other up-to-date people.. I was under the impression that maps are are always loaded from the server when you enter a new area.. Can someone clarify this?
Maps are stored locally, and only updated when you run the updater. In fact, technically, you can run a completly different map, and connect to the server, and move around it, and the server wont know a thing, except perhaps notice that you are walking in a whole lot of places you shouldnt be. The reason being the maps are very big (in the mb at least); at this stage its just not feasible to download them everytime you connect.
Oh. In that case, I have another idea.
When one loads the map, it also retrieves all player building locations and structure which are only stored on the server. That would work perfectly no?
:D
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I think there is a game called Second Life where the devs do exactly that, but the people there use a code so they can make things from any era (I think that\'s how it is, haven\'t seen the site for a long time)
I like the idea of working for new updates, it would help us get what we wanted faster, rather than getting things we don\'t want because not many people are going to work for something they don\'t like right?
But I like the idea of building our own world/towns better. If we make our own towns and such then no one can map it out properly since it keeps changing and those who ask for maps will find that that it is near impossible to make a map and not have to keep correctng it since the world keeps changing. And we can make our own guild towns.
But then how will the wildlife survive? If we keep building then we will eventually get a huge metropolis where wildlife can\'t survive without getting hunted or killed in other situations. One solution to that would be to make more areas until the PS world is insanely large and too big for the stalactite we live in. Another would be to limit the areas where you could build.
And there is a game that updates while you play(I think that\'s what it does...) but I don\'t think that people here like that game...
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I certainly hope you aren\'t talking about spoonscape... because it almost never updates period. My friends still play... (see the help! thread in the Hydlaa Plaza)
At any rate... This idea has some merit, and it leaves a place for all types of players, even talkers, you know th people who do nothing but sit in Kada-els and chat? I like it, although at this pint implementation might be something of a nightmare... But I\'m no coder so...
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Yes and the cartography skill would be needed as the world constantly changes players would need to sell updated maps in thier guild town shops...
HEY!! THATS IT! People in a guild can stick their items in a shop in their guild town.. they can set their price too.
That way people would have a reason to go to the arge guild towns, to see it there are any rare items for sale, and it would ease the auction chat channel and would be more organized as well as being infinitely more convenient and realistic.
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setting up shops already crossed my mind a while ago(while i was downloading the game)
there are just buildings and you can make a list of stuff what you can buy, with your own prices.
some people may buy all your stuff to gain the ownership over that shopbuilding, and you can hire people to make/get stuff you sell.
the ultimate roleplaying!!
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Yep. Roleplay a corporation.
Boss:You! What do you think your trying to pull? You\'re fired!
Salesperson:But... But sir or ma\'am... I\'m just checking out a customer...
Boss:Oh... Sorry. Carry on.
Boss glances nervously around \"I know they\'re out to get me! Darn that Goog... oops wrong world...\"
Edit: Smiley problem...
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roleplaying is fine of course, but the shop needs opening times and people must be able to see whenever a shop is open or not. roleplaying is fun, but it\'s the best thing you can do when the game itself helps you.
shop for example need a clear window of prices, and what\'s in stock and whats not.
you can\'t open the trade window for 3 people at the same time you know..
there needs to be a solid base were players can play around.
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For a guild shop, there basically needs to be a display case or something that ou can look at and see what\'s there. A shopkeeper can take the item out of the case and then sell it to you. Multiple shopkeepers would be neccessary. The money would then go into a guild fund, with about 5% of the sale going to the shopkeeper who made the sale as a commision..
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The player could hire NPC\'s to run the shop while he/she is away since many things could happen to interrupt the schedule, and I think we should also get to decorate our shops and maybe do things like upgrade our display case from, say, a random stone age display case to one made from wood or some other material. And I think the guild should decide the rate at which the profits are divided between the guild and the shopkeepers. Maybe the shop could operate as a regular NPC shop except the shopkeeper could decide the final price thus allowing for a little haggling.
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Let\'s not make it too complicated.. The guild buys and mabye designs the shop, then hires an NPC or mabye even enchant some kind of magic stone to handle transactions. Anybody in the guild can put their stuff in the shop and list their own price for their own stuff, then a \"guild tax\", designated by the guild, will either be added into the cost or become part of the cost, and will go to the guild. The rest goes the the selling player.
The shop should always be open with the NPC. The player(s) should not have to be there.
Now for players, they could set up a shop anywhere, with a little mark or something saying that they are selling. They designate prices and sit down, they can go AFK and the customers can buy the items just like they would buy from an npc.
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One needent update the map all the time. Just put the tunnel in one update and stick an NPC called \'Rock wall\' in it that only takes damage from pickaxes....
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all great ideas! but i don\'t think you need a guild for that.
i think guilds play a role that is to big for the experience of the game.
you shouldn\'t need one to open a shop. just money to gain ownership (unless the building is not being used, or you need to buy it from the council)
and what to do with your shop(if you are in a guild)
if you are at war...
and there is truth in your idea about not being the seller.
and the designing idea is also great.
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Yeah mabye you can just buy a building and make it into your shop.. But then say land would be expensive inside hydlaa and real estate is not cheap at all.. so you can do everything a guild does in the respect of a shop but you either have to be rich and build a brand new shop out in the middle of nowhere or you have to be a very rich merchant and but real estate in hydlaa :D
Mabye you can live in the upper floor of your shop hehe
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most people do that :D
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about the map interaction with each player, the map could save a version and check every time a player logs
into that specific map, and from that version check it could send a small to big update depending on the time
each player last visited that map, also for new players it could be auto patched when they first would run the
update program, for this there would be a need for access from the server auto patch system to check map
versions or the server saving 2 map files, one for player interaction and another for updates?
the system for building, could be block based much like \"lego\", example: making a wall.
player xzxzx starts building!
player xzxzx puts a block of stone at x,y,z,!
player xzxzx puts a block of stone at x+10,y,z,!
player xzxzx puts a block of stone at x+10,y+10,z,!
etc...
player xzxzx ends building!
while the player would do this actions, the server would read only when the player ends the process of the
building and fusing all of blocks with the same materials into one ex: stone with stone, marble with marble
etc.., making one object insted of many.
i tink the maps should have deliniated areas for building, some with big areas others with small areas, other
maps could have several areas etc., this obvious would have to be made by the dev team, were they wanted to big
cities to erupt they would make a large area avaible for building, were they would want a small camp they would
make it small... etc..., this way the dev team would still have the power to control the settings on the world.
deconstructing buildings:
the process would be exactly the oposite of the building, blocks could only be removed from player made
buildings (we wouldnt want players stealing from hydla walls now would we..) from the main object the server would get the block size and remove it from the main object ex. (wall).
the building areas, would be managed by guilds and could be conquered. there would have to be a system to avoid monopoly of all places from one guild. altho realistic but would cut the fun of the other people.
just my 2 cent ;)
i might add more later
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Shadowbane is a MMORPG that lets players construct towns in a way that is similar to what you describe. However, you don\'t lay down a building block by block. You just choose your location and it \"grows\" in the spot where you put the \"seed\".
I think it is worth noting that Shadowbane\'s game engine is one of the buggiest (is that a word?) in the MMORPG genera. As you run you see a lot of empty space then cities pop up out of nowhere because you got close enough to have them load from the server. There is also a signifiant delay when you get close enough to a large town. The delay usually causes you to \"rubber band\" backwards as the server updates your posistion from where your computer thought you should be to the possision the server thinks you are. Sometimes even wierder things happen. You may get stuck, frozen, die, be unattackable by other players, or any of the other strange behaviors that often just refered to as \"I got SBed\".
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i found more threads on the subject: some of the stuff i mentioned were already posted tho..
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10615&boardid=11&sid=4b1f693152b7731ae6dc345a803c538a&page=1
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8296&boardid=11
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=7759&boardid=11
the skills involved:
1: Carpenter: wood works would be the outmost needed skill for building, its used to build small houses, fences, palisades, roofs, furniture and working levels for other jobs(ex. a brick wall the character would have to build a side tower in wood so it could climb to a higher working area)
2: stone handling (ex. stone walls, colums, gates, castles, etc...)
3: metal handling ( Decorative, protection purposes )
4: crystal handling (decorative, normal windows)
5: painting (decorative)
how it could work?:
using the block system (lego style).
How to get the land:
step 1: guild master wants to buy land for the guild, he goes to a NPC that is set for this (something like a comissionary that has a set of land types that are avaiable to be built, it would have a few tabs with land types ex. mining camps, farms, outposts, villages, citys, isolated places, roads, etc)
rules:
a guild could only own limited numbers of each land type ex. 1 city, 10 outposts, 2 villages, etc... if the guild would have the limit number of land type(ex. citys 1) they would have to sell it before they could buy a new one.
Starting to build:
Step 1: ok now that the guild master got some land, the workers go to the land and check the land description and rules to building, given by the land comissionary to the guild master.
(this description would be like a note book containing, the land type, rules for materials avaiable to build (ex. only wood), and what should be built there(ex. a mining camp, should have a house for miners to rest, it can have a stone or wood fence, it can have a black smith etc..))
step 2: if the terrain isnt apropriate to be built, builders would have to align the land to get a good base for building, this could be done by digging the high places and filling the lower places with sand, stones.
Building:
Step 1: builders and or guild members go buy materials or go hunt for them alternatively.
lumberjacks: get wood and cut wood.
carpenters: cut wood more eficiently (make planks in several shapes)
miners: get stone blocks.
new job* stone carving: building often need several type forms of materials, ex. 45? corner stone blocks, round
blocks for pillars etc.
note: while wood can be some what easy to transport, stone is very heavy so each person cant carry more then 2
blocks.
step 2: building, now that we have the base leveled, and the materials to start building, and the location for
our first building chosen lets start to make the floor, the builder grabs a block of stone and puts it in a
location inside the area, and from there starts building the rest...
note: only the first block of(materials used) can be put in random locations after that it will have to be put
allways near another block, that way the client can check materials and combine them to make 1 object and tile
textures.