PlaneShift
Support => Technical Help: IN GAME bugs (after loading world) => Topic started by: gupgohanss5 on August 20, 2005, 03:30:45 am
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Ok, i am quite frankly infuriated!!
Let me explain why.
My Guild is destroyed now....
Why, becuase the devs decided to destroy all guilds with less than 5 members.
Guess how long they gave me to get 5...
5 min.
guess how many i needed, 1!!!
Guess what, it was less than 5 min. first of all, secondly, i had not seen that post on laanx.fragnetics until it happened,
Also, now i have to pay 20,000 to get it back.
you have to pay through the \"im not going to say the word\" to get a swording level,
And i am unable to use both my old char name, and guild name since the wipe.
This is absolutely wrong,
You first of all, dont do this right after the wipe, while people are still trying to recover,
Secondly, you give more time to let the Guild masters get everything in place,
Thirdly, Guilds should not have to pay to be made, especially that much, guilds are what add a flare to PS, and if you want me to pay through the nose, than very well, just be aware that i may be considering another game.
Also, when you dont give proper warning, then people are liable to become angry.
The money isnt the problem, it\'s the point that i have to take MY TIME, to recreate this guild, and get donations from my fellow guild members to recreate it.
I have been playing since MB, and quite frankly, this is the worst thing i have seen happen.
Just be aware that i am not the only one conscerned and very much PO\'d.
You minus well have made this game Pay to play, and advertised Free....
Sorry for the flame, but i really feel that that was wrong.
If this is posted in the wrong section, please move it to the correct one...
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We did this for a couple of reasons.
1) Assume that the \'established\' guilds will have more than 5 members.
2) Prevent people from just creating guilds without first planning them out a bit.
3) People were already abusing the guild system by putting entire sentences in their guild name.
This may have hurt a few of the smaller guilds but it may help them focus on their structure a bit.
We are only trying to make the game better and there are bound to be changes. I am sure that this will not be last change that will cause some big effects.
I am sorry if your guild was affected badly. Next time I will try to provide more advance notice of changes of this nature.
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I can understand putting this into effect but 20000 trias is way too much. Even splitting it up between 5 members can be really hard on them. Another thing is trying to recrute 4 other members when you dont have a guild yet will be very hard.
Let me make a few things clear. Im part of gupgohanss5\'s guild, Radiant Fate (which because of someone stealing his name and our guild name, we are now called Real Radiant Fate), and our guild is definatly NOT small. We were recently having trouble with our server and having trouble communicating with our guild. This made it hard for our members to find us or even know about our stolen guild name. The four who were in it were able to communticate through other sorces. Now because of this we have to regroup AGAIN and basically pay a fine for not regrouping fast enough.
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Guild websites and forums really come in handy in such times, but you should still have a collection of people\'s email addresses so as to send them an update of the situation.
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I say this was a pretty good decision.. If you don\'t have enough money and/or close friends who aren\'t in a guild, just join one of the larger ones! There were too many real tiny guilds anyway.. Guilds with like 1 person :P
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I think it was a good change. I\'ve met a couple of people who basically walked up to me and asked \"want to start a guild?\" That is contrary to the entire idea of Guilds, in my opinion.
I think that 20,000 trias sounds reasonable for founding a Guild. It will definitly keep people from founding Guilds \"just for fun\", and those that do get founded should have a good grounding. I can understand the feelings of people whose Guilds were disbanded, but I think this is a good move for the community.
I wonder if it might be a good idea to have a yearly fee for Guilds; like a licensing fee for the Guild to register with the government for official status. Any group who was not able or willing to pay the fee would still be able to form a group, but they could not form an official \"Guild\". Guilds could be eligible to build headquarters, take part in official events, etc. Unofficial groups would not have these perks, as they would have no official status within PlaneShift. This would help ensure that Guilds continue to retain the structure and purpose for which they were originally formed.
Actually, except for the money angle, this is pretty much the situation now; for example, the difference between the Guild Knights and the YLF.
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i understand your reasons for doing this but your timing could not have been better for me as i am a Mac player and so is one of my guild, how dew to Mac problems with this game update 3.0.11, still is not able to log in game yet so my guild instead of 5 was 4 at server update, and as i new nothing of this new rule as there was nothing in guilds about it, my guild is no more :(
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From the PlaneShift main sit (http://www.planeshift.it/community_guilds.html)
All Guilds must respect these rules to be elegible to become official:
* The Guild must have an unique named leader.
* The leader must send to PlaneShift Team his real name, country and a valid e-mail. If he wants, his identity can remain unknown to other players.
* The guild must have at least 10 members, including leader.
* The leader is responsible for the actions of the members of his guild; if one of them goes against the rules of PlaneShift, the leader must immediately remove him from the guild.
* The leader cannot be a member of the PlaneShift Development Team. This will prevent unfair advantages between guilds.
* The Guild must have a web page that states scope, beliefs, members, etc...
So according to the \"Official\" rules, and Guild with only 5 members should not have been official in the first place. I do agree though that 5 minutes was a bit of a short notice, especially since it wasn\'t posted anywhere other than on the laanx server.
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with all respect my guild was the only way a group of people could join together, i clearly stated in my post: (So in short I have created a guild for like minded souls, who don\'t wish to belong to this or that alignment, but band together and still be master of their own fate.)
in other words not a guild but a group, and as it is at moment guild is only way to group. :)
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I too think that the current cost is suitable, and I personally like the idea of an annual fee. This is a way of weeding out inactive guilds and cleaning the system.
As for the timing of this: updates mean changes, and changes must be adapted to until everyone has the same access on all platforms. As I stated before, having a guild website, forums, or mailing list, becomes really useful. You can either try to recruit another member before your Mac user becomes available, or wait. Four people can keep in touch almost without effort, without a guild. Definitely until the Mac release is present, anyway. It will give you time to amass the needed fee, too :)
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* The Guild must have an unique named leader.
* The leader must send to PlaneShift Team his real name, country and a valid e-mail. If he wants, his identity can remain unknown to other players.
* The guild must have at least 10 members, including leader.
* The Guild must have a web page that states scope, beliefs, members, etc...
Our guild does have a unigue named leader, ME
I neglected to read this forum, so i didnt know i was supposed to send my info to the planeshift team... even a month before the wipe this was not mentioned to me.
We did have 10 members, actually, 200, and 50 active on the forums, we still have 50 on the forums too, and we were trying to be able to re-recruit them
We do have a wep page, or better yet a site, http://www.radiantfate.tk
Guild websites and forums really come in handy in such times, but you should still have a collection of people\'s email addresses so as to send them an update of the situation.
We do have forums, and we also have all the emails of our registered users on the forums, and i am able to mass email them, which i do often, especially lately, telling them when they can meet me online.
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The guild requirements as stated on the main website have always been \"ignored.\" They are not the current rules, nor have they been the rules of the past. I presume, as others have, that it has been a sort of placeholder for future guild systems (such as the recent change).
No one was made to follow these past rules.
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well been in game 10 mins and maid 138258 tria,that was essay.
hard part going against my reason for forming group.
(is a safe haven for the good people of this land who wish to keep control of their own fate, instead of being put under great pressure at times to conform to the will of one guild or another. )
I hope you see my problem :(
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Indeed, Janner, it seems that the real purpose of your guild has been taken care of by the higher ups. The good news, of course, is that newcomers to Hydlaa will no longer be plagued by random, rude invitations to organizations they know nothing about. The bad, is that you will have to adjust your guild a bit. But this has been discussed earlier in your thread, too ;)
There is nothing stopping you from keeping it a group for friends, but as always, an RP reason must exist for a guild to really survive. Good luck with this all!
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Originally posted by acraig
We did this for a couple of reasons.
1) Assume that the \'established\' guilds will have more than 5 members.
Not to flame or cry but your assumption here was a little wrong, I have old,
well developed guild, but now there is hollidays period, people went away - it
is like that every year. I will never get 20k unless someone gives me. :P
So in my opinion old guilds should be kept and only new one should be paid.
Regards.
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Old, established guilds should have no problem finding the required amount of tria and members, once everyone comes back. I don\'t think this is that big of a setback, since guilds usually have another place outside of the game to discuss issues in. And it is of course assumed that everyone will try to help out with the fee. A few days or weeks without being in a guild should not be so bad.
I disagree about having new guilds pay only. This isn\'t fair - they should not be penalized simply for being new.
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i will log on and give you the tria req milady, meet me in plaza normal place :)
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Just for explanation we were not a guild or power levelers, most of us had all
tria that you could get in quests. I remember the richest guild member was me
and I had like 8k tria I won in event quest. :P
Also usually guilds of friends are not so great, many guilds do not aim for
great members count. Anyway restoring wipe guild would be too much work
so this discussion has no point. EOT by my side. ;)
Regards.
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sorry milady very thoughtless of me, Janner hangs head in shame.
but if the powers that be are within ear shot deduct the req amount from my packet to reinstate milady\'s guild .
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I only have one question ... will new guilds with under five members be deleted after a certain time period as well? Or was this a one time occurance?
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Originally posted by Platyna
Also usually guilds of friends are not so great, many guilds do not aim for great members count.
That\'s the thing, however. Guilds are not meant to be a simple gathering of friends. That is not how guilds have functioned in the world - they had a greater purpose for existing. This new rule will make sure that guilds with no other reason for being than a collection of seemingly random people pop up. Which I personally agree to.
Originally posted by Acraig
2) Prevent people from just creating guilds without first planning them out a bit.
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Yes, after 5 mins, and better be faster than me while accepting your members or you will loose alot of money. :(
Regards.
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Originally posted by Platyna
Yes, after 5 mins, and better be faster than me while accepting your members or you will loose alot of money. :(
Regards.
If that is the case I honestly think these rules are over the top, rather anti-rp and encouraging cheating.
They are anti-rp since they practically make it so you \'ll need external organisation and tools because you simply do not get the time to build up your guild unless you actually have four people you can depend on. The only way to be sure of that is having some off-game friends helping you out.
Cheating is encouraged because of the rather high creation fee, it will either take ages to create a guild .. which would be alright on its own. However the cheaters and powerlevelers can gather the needed funds far faster and thus this rule will actually benefit those I always assumed Planeshift wasn\'t going to benefit.
Personally I find these changes to be damaging though I do understand why they were put in place. I \'d suggest a much simpler system though, just have guild ideas be approved by GM\'s before they can be created.
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Anti RP because only those who slay alot of monsters can get such cash, but
cash is not what bothers me much. But that you have to accept five members
during 5 mins or your guild is gone and you remain stripped out of money is
really painful...my suggestion would be so if you buy a guild it last forever no
matter how many members you got, if someone will spam we may always ban him.
Regards.
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I can understand your frustrations, but when I read the news on the laanx website, I was like \"finally!!\".
I was getting sick of all the guild invites and people saying in chat \"you wanna join me guild\" constantly.
Also, you had people who were stealing members. In my own guild, there were people who joined and after a while said in guild chat: Leave this guild and we\'ll create a new one, I will give everyone 1k if they join. That was really irritating. I do think the fee is high for 1 person, but not for a group of people. If you share the cost, it is not that expensive. And 5 minutes might be a little short, but it is possible. Just walk with 5 friends to a quiet place, they give you the money, you create the guild and then you invite them all, 5 minutes should be enough to click on \"/invite\" 5 times.
edit:
I agree with Platyna that guilds should be indefinately, because if you have 5 members and 1 suddenly quits (on purpose or by accident) and within 5 minutes your guild is gone, that\'s not very nice. So maybe initial requirements should be 5 members and 20k and after that indefinately, or maybe minimum of 3 members.
And this is really not anti-RP. It even improves RP. Because instead of lots and lots of small and unknown guilds, you\'ll now have less but better known guilds. That improves RP, and there will be more guild alliances, guild enemies, guildwars, etc.
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and say 1 member english Australian, american, and so on all diff time zones how do you get them to join in five mins ?
or put anther way when i sleep other-side of world play but still have friends day or night
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Then you have bad luck I guess. But what has that to do with the new guild system? Guild creation will be harder yes, but who cares? Because if your friends live in a totally other time zone, then you would never be able to play with them, because you would be sleeping when they are awake, so it doesn\'t bother that much that they wouldn\'t be able to join your guild. And with the old system, didn\'t you have the same problem? You still had to be awake to be able to invite them.
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you miss the point,lets call them zones, 1 overlaps 2 2 overlaps 3.
1 and 3 never meet butt 2 can enjoy the company of both 1 or 3.
and if 2 is guild master and only one in time zone. then i say in plane how do they join in five mins.
I care and shore others do to or why am i here, and i do not men that in the rude sense :)
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There\'s one simple sollution to that:
simply say that they must be at the plaza at a specific hour and if they won\'t be there, they have bad luck.
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Originally posted by ThomPhoenix
And this is really not anti-RP. It even improves RP. Because instead of lots and lots of small and unknown guilds, you\'ll now have less but better known guilds. That improves RP, and there will be more guild alliances, guild enemies, guildwars, etc.
The end result will definitely improve RPing. I think all those random guilds which served no real purpose were quite annoying ... but what I mean by harming roleplaying is the way a guild is created now. It is far too restricted to create a guild in a decent roleplaying manner with these new rules. There should be no time pressure ... or at least give a guild a week to get some members.
I understand that they deleted all guilds with less than 5 members once, even though some good new guilds never got a chance but to repeat that action every 5 minutes is beyond my comprehension.
If I were to create a guild now I would have to resort to recruiting manners that aren\'t very RP-like and I would be afraid to risk my 20.000 trias ... since even if I managed to get 4 possible members lined up and waiting, only one of them has to crash or want to screw me over for me to lose my hardearned money.
Originally posted by ThomPhoenix
There\'s one simple sollution to that:
simply say that they must be at the plaza at a specific hour and if they won\'t be there, they have bad luck.
Or you, who can\'t create your guild or even lose 20.000 trias have bad luck ;)
I do hope this change gets reviewed and softened up a bit ... but I definitely like that there is a limitation on guild creation.
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i\'m not requesting my guild back, i\'m just saying, these rules are WAY TOO strict. Maybe you would be better off either making it 20,000, or 5min. either one. And i understand if you choose the second that you can keep recreating a guild withouth purpose, so limit guild creations to 1 by each character every day/week.
Instead of spending hard earned money that could serve a better purpose.
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What can i say.... at morning i was really pissed off, i have calmed down and so i will post my thougts.
First such things like sudden guild deletion, comming with no warning arent really good. But looks like that is know already.
Second i think 5 minutes to invite 4 members is too extreme.
As has been mentioned, members may live in very different time zones, someone may crash durring the process and people not always have time to come at the same time.
In my opinion it is too short period of time.
And last, the issue with 20,000 tria.
For me it isn\'t problem, but it may be a problem for a guild of people who dont hunt things. A guild of bards.
Also what happens with the money if leader dont invite 4 people in time? they disappear? I hope not, though i\'m not going to try
This gives a big advantage to PL guilds and disadvantages RP guilds.
But i will agree with explanation like: The Octarhs have decided that to register a guild, it has to pay a sume of money. That would be realistic.
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I can understand the desire of the devs in changing the rules with regard to the guilds in the Planeshift game.
A five-member minimum ? Well, OK, if that is the way it has to be. (That rule trashed the guild that I was a member of, but, well, if it has to be that way... OK)
A 20,000 tria start-up fee ? Perhaps a bit pricey, but, OK, it isn\'t real money is it ? And, yes, maybe scraping it together is a bit of a hardship, but would maybe cause some light-headed people to think twice before just declaring for a guild.
But FIVE (5) whole minutes to recruit a replacement member if the membership drops below the magic level of 5 members ??? ... Let me make an analogy: A car has four tires and a spare in the trunk. One of the tires goes flat and you have... (you guessed it)... FIVE (5) minutes to fix it or else your car is hauled off to the junk yard and thrown into the crusher.
A day or two would be fair, six hours would be tight, but FIVE minutes ??? Who are you trying to kid !? Maybe the guild master isn\'t even on line within those five minutes to respond to this. And even if he/she is, what will it come down to... ???
AUCTION! AUCTION! Guild member(s) required. Good prices paid ! ...(I shudder)...
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A long long time ago in a forum far away... Wait wrong setting...
Anywaaay... A while ago I was part of a thread in the wishlist forum about guild restrictions, so before y\'all get too bent out of shape, just remember that restrictions like a cost to the guild leader to make the guild was something that many people were in favor of.
That being said... I was leader of VanGuard. The only other three people, out of roughly 32, counting Remvak, Ganga and myself, who even kept their names, Ralas, Thelos, and Kjurg, all seem to be from Europe, as that is where the old Lord of VanGuard was from. With all the bugs, within 5 minutes time, starting from the Death Realm, I am capable of getting back to the Death Realm because of bugs that don\'t allow me to fall down anything but some stairs... I can\'t even realistically make into the plaza in 5 minutes time, to even look for potential new VanGuards. Forget the Sewers and temple underground. I can\'t even get close to those.
Keep in mind I\'m not complaining, although it certaintly sounds like it. I am definately in favor of this, I just don\'t think the timing was really thought out. If I ever manage to get into the sewers or the mines, I\'ll eventually make 20,000 Tria, but then comes another problem. The VanGuard used to be somewhat active, although I\'m afraid a lot of our members may have been PLers, as they kinda disapeered off the face of Yliakum just before the wipe... For this reason, medium small guilds like us could be really damaged by this. But you\'ll notice, that despite my poor financial state and that fact that I\'m having trouble finding members due to bugs that limit my movement, I still carry the banner of the VanGuard in my sig. It isn\'t going anywhere.
That also being said... i would rather lose the VanGuard for a while while I try to make 20,000 Tria, as the government of the VanGuard doesn\'t really allow for me to ask any one but the other top two members for Tria to build the guild. And as I can\'t reach any old members, that leaves it to me... than to have to put up with some of the stuff I\'ve seen in our beautiful land of Yliakum... ex I actually saw a guy yesterday create a guild called ****suckers. Yeah, it doesn\'t take a lot of thought to figure out that kind of crap had to go.
I\'ve done my usual stupid gray bubble stuff once again, arguing for both sides... i really got to cut that out... anywaaayy... I\'ll leave my current comments at that, and say only this before I go to find something else to talk about for a while...
Thanks Devs, GMs, ect, for all you\'ve done for our fair land of Yliakum. The Yliaki should really be more thankfull... But people aren\'t good at that are they?
Wait... no I have 1 more question... Why isn\'t this in the General Discussion or Guilds forum?
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I believe i speak for all of us thast something needed to be done to stop all the inactive, spamming/etc. guilds.
But i believe it was gone about the wrong way.
But when i see it from your point of view, i see why you did it the way you did.
I am willing to lay down my argument, as long as you increase the guild time to at least 1 hour.
I am not sure what everyone else thinks about this, but i think it is at least a little better.
I am sorry that i only seem to participate in these forums whenever there is anything that i feel is wrong...
I will work on that...
Maybe next time you could also give a week\'s notice or something, becuase i was the first one on the server after reboot, and i didnt even see the post after my client crashed \"Server not responding, it has most liekly crashed\" even though everyone else was still online, i logged back in, and my guild was gone...
Please forgive me for all the complaining, i will become more active in these forums.
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Ok I\'m sure no one will really read my post because I didn\'t post much.
Oki that\'s good to make stupid and usless guild to appear but they are old guilds that are there since looong time! Dark Empire is one of them. I talk in the place of Sangwa because he is in the imposibility to talk for the moment.
Indirectly you penalize some people, people that are under Linux (Natrina and Sangwa is an example) can\'t join. Distro problem that they are fixing and all. So 2 members can\'t be there. You will say well it\'s not our problem! Well seriously I think yes : what do you want, people have fun ? Well u\'r cutting it off!
I don\'t know how some people do to have 100 000 trias in a day but in the beginning must I remember you how it\'s hard ? Anyway I\'m very disapointed about what you did.
Old guilds that have thread here, serious thread! Shouldn\'t be threat like that.
MY post will surly be highly critize but I don\'t care becaue I wanted to express my opinion since we leave in a free world. But Yliakum world, maybe not.
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That\'s kinda harsh DeathsAngel... Yliakum has more freedom than the USA... But otherwise you\'re exactly right. I certainly hope that no one seriously criticizes your beliefs, especially not when all you\'re doing is posting your opinion, but your prolly right. We aren\'t good at respecting other people\'s opinions here, are we?
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Good sacarsm, it\'s only that I know many community that when someone post his opinion the other members make bullshit of it. Maybe this community is different, let see.
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That\'s exactly what has happened in this community, on many occasions... Don\'t get me wrong, I like the community, and a lot of the belittling does come from people\'s personalities, not just an I\'m right and that\'s it kind of thing, but none the less, let\'s hope it doesn\'t happen here, but I\'m getting off topic again... I seem to be good at that...
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You know, it\'s not actually necessary to have an in-game Guild in order to RP or to participate in the PS community. In understand everyone\'s frustration about how this rule change was implemented (the lack of proper notification), but I can\'t see where anyone has a legitimate complaint about the new rules themselves.
If you don\'t have 20,000 trias, or you don\'t have four other people who want to join you, then you have a simple solution: DON\'T FORM A GUILD!
That doesn\'t mean you can\'t log on and group with your friends, or that you can\'t RP that you are in an organized group. It doesn\'t prevent you from giving yourselves titles and ranks. The only thing you can\'t do is have a label beneath your character name in-game telling everybody else what Guild you are a member of.
Create a website. Put up a forum. Develop the history and structure of your \"Guild\". Post to the Guilds Forum here announcing yourself, and state that you are looking for members. If your Guild is well thought out, people will want to join, and they will be willing to pay a few K for the opportunity.
If you are commited to playing the game and having a proper Guild, it won\'t take long to gather the required funds and members, and then you can become \"official\".
Basically, the only people these rules hurt are those who want to start a Guild just so they and their friends can have a place to hang out and show the rest of the world who they are. Anyone willing to commit the time and effort to make a proper Guild and keep it running will have no problems meeting the requirements.
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Yeah. makes perfect sense to me. I\'m not really even bothered that much by the lack of notice, just the timing. Right after the wipe really isn\'t a good time to pull a stunt like this. Even if it is the most constructive change to the Guild System since it\'s implementation.
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
Basically, the only people these rules hurt are those who want to start a Guild just so they and their friends can have a place to hang out and show the rest of the world who they are. Anyone willing to commit the time and effort to make a proper Guild and keep it running will have no problems meeting the requirements.
Exactly. :)
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The timing does seem to be a bit odd. Especially if they are planning another wipe soon. In that case, this change was pointless, because everything will have to start over anyway.
I don\'t remember which of the three current \"Guild-WIpe\" threads this was mentoined in earlier, but I agree with whomever it was that perhaps Guilds should not get created without the involvement of a GM. If you want to create a guild, you petition a GM, and direct them to the Guild\'s web site. The site lists the Guild history, structure, and membership. The GM can then create the Guild on your behalf and add all of the initial members for you, so you don\'t need to worry about the \"5-minute rule\". So it might take a few hours, or even a couple of days, for your Guild to be created. At least we can all be assured that Guilds are properly designed and well named.
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Nice to see reason in a thread that came so close to being a flaming thread eh? Incidentaly... It\'s things like this that keep life from being boring. It\'s like I said on the VanGuard website about us, although it applys to Yliakum itself quite well... \"The second we become predictable we cease to be VanGuard.\"
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SuburbanPlankton u\'r idea is nice. So the GM will see that the guild isnt a poor one.
The 5 min timing is real bad! Coz think of the GMT time! Someone may live in America and all the other members in Eastern Europe so the difference between their timing zone is too big!
Come on change that rules, I know you (GM and Dev)want to make the game more serious but there is a serious limit.
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When I first read this thread, I thought this new rule was a bad joke of someone, but it wasn\'t. Well, I do understand that you want to get rid of those \"just-for-fun guilds\". That\'s right, and there\'s nothing wrong with it.
But the way you enforce this is inacceptable. Just five minutes to gather five members is really too short. What happens if for example the client of the guild master crashes during the five minutes (something that is quite likely to happen, because PS is still a tech-demo)? The guild will be disbanded, I guess, because the GM has not recruited enough members.
And don\'t forget that PS is a MMORPG. This means that the guild members can be spread all around the world. The different time zones make it difficult (if not impossible) to gather most of the members within this five minutes. Someone here made the proposal that all members of a guild have to be online at a certain time, but hey, you can\'t force somebody on the other half of the globe to get up at (let\'s say) 3:25 in the morning just to be online in order to make it possible to create a guild.
Another point is the fee of 20,000 tria to start a guild. Let\'s assume ten new players gathered to form a guild. They will never be able to raise 20,000 trias within the five minutes.
Some say this rule will encourage RP. I think they are wrong.
What would you do, if you had five minutes to get five members and 20k tria into your recently created guild? Everything, but surely no RP. You would start sending guild invitations to randomly chosen players one after another (some would call it a attempt to do mass recruiting), hoping they have enough trias to contribute to the needed amount. Because I can\'t imagine another way for a young guild to collect so much money (except cheating).
Frankly, the rule is the best way to cause frustration among many guilds and guild members (or should I say former guild members?).
You should change the rule, the timing should be better, maybe the fee should be reduced, too. At least a guild master should have 24 hours before the guild is disbanded, if the requirements are not met.
I know some will criticize what I wrote. But try to see it not only from the view of the older and established guilds (which should have no problems with this rule), but also from the view of the new and small guilds.
Greets
Thoronador
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I would still like to no why it was not mentioned in guilds part of forum as this directly affects guilds.
Then we would have had a bit more time to arrange things , or in my case even no it was about to happen.
Also no thought seams to have been put into fact there are a lot of people still of-line waiting for there OS to bet updated so they can play, o and by the way in those five mins there was two sever crashes. :)
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lol. 2 crashes in 5 min??? sometimes it takes me 5 min just to finish loading. Seriously, the other rules aren\'t too bad. But 5 min just isnt realistic... Unless you have been drinking way too much red bull...
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Meh, I don\'t see that there\'s much of a problem anyway. You know who all your members are (if you don\'t, you should), so that\'s not a problem. And 20k is nothing with the current loot generator. Sell 1 item and you\'re good to go. Crisis over. :)
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Originally posted by Thoronador
What would you do, if you had five minutes to get five members and 20k tria into your recently created guild? Everything, but surely no RP. You would start sending guild invitations to randomly chosen players one after another (some would call it a attempt to do mass recruiting), hoping they have enough trias to contribute to the needed amount.
This is where you are rather mistaken. Guilds should never be created on-the-spot, randomly, with no other current members except the guildleader. This system prevents -just that-. An individual who will want to start a guild will first have to find a way of promoting the idea for it, meeting with people THROUGH RP to see if they will be fit for potential membership, and when and only when five truly interested and dedicated members with the funds needed are gathered, the guild can be created. But -never- spontaneously and with more invite spam.
Though I do agree on the five-minute issue. I think an hour would be enough time.
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Well, I must say I was surprised/shocked/initially angry about this, but as I think about it, it does make a lot of sense. I have a point/request to make.
The five members rule makes sense to me. Yes, a \"guild\" should have more than five members. However, (and please correct me if I am wrong about this piece of info) the \"five minutes\" in which to recruit another four members is very irritating and even daunting; I see easily that 20,000 tria could disappear easily if even someone found four people willing to join, he/she forms the guild, then one of them has a computer crash. ....Whiffffp.... 20,000 gone. I ask that it be please be increased to 24 hours which I don\'t think is asking too much.
Also, slightly of topic, I was under the impression the random loot generator didn\'t drop weapons worth 20,000 tria?
Well, I\'m off to earn 20,000 in teffie loot and collect my members.
Xirius
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Originally posted by provisionist1
[...] the \"five minutes\" in which to recruit another four members is very irritating and even daunting [...]
Xirius, guilds are meant to be ready -with- five members at the time of creation :) A guildleader should not go on a random search for members after creating a guild, but before it. Guild promotion threads on the forum and roleplay within the game itself will help future guildleaders immensly.
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No I did\'nt see any weapon that was worth 20 000 trias or I was\'nt able to get the 20 000 trias in a day, except if you\'re uber strong and you go kill Trempor or Ulber all day (12 hours) then yes you will have your money. But I don\'t think anyone is so much addicted to that game hehe :D
For the \"5 minutes delay\" and even an hour is too short. If we could say like 4-5 hours it would be perfect. And when people join a guild why not making them pay like 0.5K or 1 k ? They do not pay it to the guild but to the \"government of Yliakum\". This would prevent mass recruiting in the plaza during the 4-5 hours delay.
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Is everyone missing the point, or am I just being weird here? ;) Guilds are supposed to have those 5 members ready already before going off to create the guild in-game. There will be no spamming of invites of any kind. And I certainly hope that if some guild attempts this, they will be reported and reprimanded by GMs immediately.
A guildleader is not supposed to search for members after creating the guild in-game, but before creating it in-game.
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I know Karyuu but I mean that it\'s not every member that can be there at the same time! Different reasons : job, GMT time etc etc...
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I understand where you are coming from karyuu, but many people sleep while i am online, i cant expect any of my members to be up at 3:00 AM just to join my guild, and not everyone has the flexibility of schedule that you may have.
That\'s why it should be an extended time, 20,000 may be a bit much, but i\'m willing to pay it, as long as i get my guild back.
But i\'m not going to pay it if there is a possibility that it is a waste of money.
Tell me, what if other members of the game wish to spite our guild, by pretending to be a member, since the wipe, then leaving the guild as soon as it forms, or as soon as i get offline, so that my guild will be wiped again.
We need to address these problems, they don\'t jsut go away. i would be confident with an hour or 2, others would rather a day, whatever time is decided, it definitely needs to be lenghthened.
I don\'t understand why there is still an argument about this, when it is clear that there is just not enough time. And form what iv\'e read, this seems to most people\'s opinions. I love PS, and i want my guild back. It\'s jsut that simple, but why not make it a little more RP.
I dont know about you, but form what iv\'e seen in game, cheating has already begun to create a guild...
TTYL,
Charims/Gebir, Guild master of Radiant Fate/ Those of Radiant Fate
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Charims, I agree that five minutes is definitely not enough. Personally I think twenty-four hours is too long, however. And I have suggested in the beginning of another thread of a similar topic that guilds be kept permanently once they are paid for, to prevent the \"members-leave-and-now-we\'re-gone\" scenario. Everyone knows that guilds can become inactive or fade away only to come back with a punch later. I am only arguing that currently, this is the way things are going to have to be. I don\'t think that asking for five members in the same time zone is too outrageous of a request.
As for cheating already to create a guild.. The system is rudimentary. Xordan has stated that as it improves, many cheats such as using alts as members, will be made impossible. But there are several exploits already, too, that ruin the atmosphere. Trapping creatures in elements of the landscape so that they cannot hit back is one of them, and the devs are aware. Something will be done :)
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Originally posted by Moogie
And 20k is nothing with the current loot generator. Sell 1 item and you\'re good to go. Crisis over. :)
Haha, good joke! Really. :P
Name one such item that can be sold for 20k or more. I guess you won\'t find that much. And please take into consideration that there are guilds who don\'t do PL. ;)
Originally posted by Karyuu
I agree that five minutes is definitely not enough.
That\'s absolutely right.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Personally I think twenty-four hours is too long, however.
I think 24 hours is not too long. Many players will need even more than 24 hours to get 20k. (One should not forget that there are people with real-life who are possibly not addicted to PS and who can\'t manage to spend 8-10 hours (or even more) per day playing PS.)
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That\'s the point. We are supposed to have 20,000 Tria and 5 other members set up and on line at the time we create the guild. But please, please, please people... Let the thread die! This thread is doing nothing but complaining...
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Let it die ? Well yes if the Dev will do something for the time...
Many players will need even more than 24 hours to get 20k.
... It have been said one hundread time that you need to have your 6 members and 20 k when you create your guild...
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This (http://\"http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18683&boardid=13&styleid=4&sid=6a75966aa20baa84bb4e06cbd69f5264\") thread, which Moogie locked, was about the guild wipe. It answers a few questions. And this (http://\"http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18680&boardid=18&styleid=4&sid=6a75966aa20baa84bb4e06cbd69f5264\") thread has some arguments going on too. Moogie didn\'t lock this one, but she did post there... hmm... whatever... But are two threads really neccessary? Is one thread really neccessary? It\'s the same people posting over and over again in all three. They serve little to no purpose with the exception of letting people vent, which i suppose isn\'t all bad but I digress... I still don\'t understand why this was here instead of Wish List, Guild, or General Chat... but, again, whatever. The point is that this thread, like the other two, has decomposed from a valid debate to where most people are just ignoring it. It was a valuable thread in the beginning, but then I think we got slightly distracted. If you\'ll notice, DeathsAngel, myself, Karyuu, Gupgohanss did most of the posting with a few others just kinda making cameos. We\'re now repeating ourselves, some of us having run out of things to say. I think we\'re all to strong and intelligent to let a little thing like 20,000 tria and 5 people get in our ways, but how many times have 1 of us had to say to someone, \"The point is to have the money and people available before you start the guild\" or something like that? It\'s getting out of hand. I\'m not saying that this isn\'t a valuable topic, but I don\'t want to see it decay into a placeholder for someone who just wants to complain a lot. Too much good stuff has been said here. I\'m not flaming anyone, or blaming anyone, but the more time we spend discussing this, the more time we lose to regroup and rebuild. And rebuilding is what\'s important here, is it not?
You know what? I can\'t get the links to work. Too bad. :/ The threads are in General and Guilds...
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Here is what I see this rule ending up doing:
All the well organized guilds can recreate theyre guild easily, yes. But basically this keeps new guilds from being created. It is a lot harder to find four other people to join your guild when you dont have one yet than it sounds like most of you believe(at least thats how it sounds to me). The new guilds are needed to enhance RP. If we continue to have just old well built guilds then RP will decrease and it will cause much of the fun for guilds to decrease also. This rule also keeps small guilds from rrally being created. Small guilds are needed just as much as medium and large guilds. If a small guild loses a member then are deleted in 5 miniutes then that guild will most likely never be back again. These small guilds can add to the game, though little by each one, in the end, the added things will be great.
I agree that pointless, spam, and inactive guilds should be erased but it should be done in a different way to keep any of this from happening. Please understand what I am trying to say.
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Yes true we did all we had to say about the topic and we\'r repeating and almost quoting our selves 8o
We can lock this one ? :)
EDIT : Jakob u\'r link does\'nt work btw ;)
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Originally posted by Shadowcast
It is a lot harder to find four other people to join your guild when you dont have one yet than it sounds like most of you believe(at least thats how it sounds to me).
Can you please explain why it is harder? Under the previous system (ignoring guild-invite spams), whenever someone was curious about a guild or wanted to share his or her own guild with others, a conversation was started that explained things between parties, and information for further contact was shared. For example once the RP discussion ended, an OOC /tell would be sent with a guild website or forum address where the potentially interested individual could read more info and decide if the organization is truly interesting. I don\'t see how this new guild system changes this.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by provisionist1
[...] the \"five minutes\" in which to recruit another four members is very irritating and even daunting [...]
Xirius, guilds are meant to be ready -with- five members at the time of creation :) A guildleader should not go on a random search for members after creating a guild, but before it. Guild promotion threads on the forum and roleplay within the game itself will help future guildleaders immensly.
Ok... Though as I then said if there were the four other members (five total) ready to go, and one of them has a computer crash (not an unlikely possibility) then there would be a loss of 20,000 just like that. I\'m not complaining, this new system is much more logical to what guilds and the system should be, but I do think five minutes is far too short a time. Even one hour would be great. I agree that several members should be found before the guild is formed formally, I just question the current logistics of this system.
Thanks, I\'m gonna try not to say anything else on the subject.
Xirius
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Perhaps instead of gathering exacty 5 people and then starting a guild, it might be better to get 6 or 7, or even (gasp!) 10 people together before forming your guild. That way you could have a 50% failure rate and still be OK.
That being said, I do agree that 5 minutes is too short a time; I too think a 24-hour grace period would be appropriate. But this is in order to accommodate players in different time zones, not to guard against computer crashes.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Shadowcast
It is a lot harder to find four other people to join your guild when you dont have one yet than it sounds like most of you believe(at least thats how it sounds to me).
Can you please explain why it is harder? Under the previous system (ignoring guild-invite spams), whenever someone was curious about a guild or wanted to share his or her own guild with others, a conversation was started that explained things between parties, and information for further contact was shared. For example once the RP discussion ended, an OOC /tell would be sent with a guild website or forum address where the potentially interested individual could read more info and decide if the organization is truly interesting. I don\'t see how this new guild system changes this.
1. There are many people who want to join a guild. When they play with someone with a guild they can start the conversation, but if the dont know they have the guild they never will. Just SEEING the guild name below the players name can make it easier to have people join.
2. The people who want to make a new guild will have to go around and ask people to join their guild (which I heard eailier that it happened so much they got annoyed, and this might increase hearing that). Then people would most likely see no guild name and dont want to join or, if theyre lucky, may ask about it.
3. The guild master would also have to find 4 or more very trustworthy people to join to make the guild. This may take months or even years. Trusting someone cant be givin too lightly. Youll need to trust them to be there and to join before you create it.
This is why it will be harder for new guilds to be created than before.
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a stable guild is built on trusted friends, as you said... however, what is the problem of waiting months to find the people? is there some rush to create a guild? if you still had the option to create a guild right now, how would it be different? you would still have to find more people you trust to join, and that could also take months. the only difference is that when you found one to join, you could give them a title right then and there, but that\'s nothing special.
as for recruiting new members by asking, here\'s a couple of tips: don\'t ask the ones who are already in a guild, and don\'t bug them. if you bug someone to join your guild, you\'re completely doing away with what i said before. a simple way to ask someone if they are interested is \"I am starting a guild soon, and i am looking for new members. Would you be interesting in hearing what we believe?\" and if the person says yes or maybe or something, you can proceed to tell them about your guild and see if you will trust them. and for those who would be annoyed by the constant asking can just say \"no\". easy as 3.14
and just waiting for someone to ask about your guild wouldn\'t get many members anyway. you have to be somewhat agressive and ask if you are just starting out... the large guilds have the advantage of having more members with the title (which kind tacks that name into the guild seekers mind), but your small guild will have to do some extra work by handing out fliers and whatnot.
starting a guild shouldn\'t be so simple, it should be more complicated as it would be in real life
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Originally posted by TheMinority
however, what is the problem of waiting months to find the people? is there some rush to create a guild? if you still had the option to create a guild right now, how would it be different?
Well, there is possibly no rush to create a guild. But I think what Shadowcast means is the following: if one had a guild before the wipe and before the introduction of this new rule, most members would expect this guild to be continued/ re-founded after the wipe. But if a Guild Master can\'t re-create this guild due to the new rules, the former members (or some of them) might get the feeling their guild does not exist anymore, although the Guild Leader is willing to re-found his/her guild. The consequence is that some members change to another guild and therefore they can\'t be recruited by their original guild.
the large guilds have the advantage of having more members with the title (which kind tacks that name into the guild seekers mind), but your small guild will have to do some extra work by handing out fliers and whatnot.
That is one of the points where the new system becomes unfair. Sure the bigger guilds won\'t have much problems (if any) to establish their guild. But the smaller ones have to do much more efforts before they are even able to found a guild.
starting a guild shouldn\'t be so simple, it should be more complicated as it would be in real life
Starting a guild should not be too simple, yes. But making it too complicated to start a guild will definitely discourage players to found a new guild with its own beliefs and goals. This cannot really be what you want, can it?
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Since when is gathering 5 people together \"complicated\"? You poor, poor thing. :) *pats*
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I would guess that anyone who is having issues with gathering 5 people quickly are Americans. No culture in history has had the type of \"I want it and I want it now\" type of mentality that we have here in the States. I think this is actually kinda funny seeing that we Americans aren\'t the only impatient ones, but also seeing what happens when people are forced to actually take time to do something... :O
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Maybe we Americans are a bit impatient, but seriously would you want to wait months to start your guild. Yes the most focused people would be able to do this but not every guild should be well organized. It could be the goal of one guild to help smaller newer less organized guilds (who knows there are many different goals out there).
To tell the truth Id much rather see no minum member rule and have the paying rule be changed to a monthy/yearly payment (which could be payed just by the guild master or split between members automaticaly. This would solve the problem and still make it a bit easier for newer guilds to be formed
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do you see my point
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No, I personally don\'t.
[...]but seriously would you want to wait months to start your guild.
I don\'t see why not? Many people already do. They spend weeks trying to come up with all the necessary organization, roleplaying story, goals, and policies. And these are the guilds that become successful and respected, no matter their alignment - because they spent something called effort. If this is too much for some people, they aren\'t worthy of being guildleaders, in my opinion. Guilds aren\'t a little collective of friends. They can become a collection of close friends, but that will never be and should never be their sole purpose. A guild to help out newbies is all nice and well, but if they lack structure, they won\'t help anyone.
It could be the goal of one guild to help smaller newer less organized guilds (who knows there are many different goals out there).
Yes, I was pondering this earlier, when someone mentioned that the current demanded price of 20k would be too much for a guild of bards, for example, who do not do battle. Well what do bards do? Entertain! Bards may want to look for a patron of their art, a sponsor. Isn\'t that a great beginning for roleplay? But for someone to help and sponsor something, they have to have the ability to help. What kind of guild of five members (or less) has the ability to help anyone?
It is still -very- easy for guilds to form. It just requires a little more of something that has always been required - roleplay. Interaction. Conversation. Organization.
Guilds will finally have to be formed properly.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Guilds will finally have to be formed properly.
Here is another point:
I know you want all guilds to be well organized and all that, but tell me, how are these so-called \"well organized\" guilds ever going to learn from mistakes that a less organized guild can learn from. When you try to organize your guild from the beginning, you are baseing it off of what you have seen before. In turn, you never get to witness the mistakes that SHOULD have been made when they were able to be less organized. These mistakes could eventually happen in the future. One who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it. If one was never able to learn from it then its more likely to happen.
Here is an example of this in real life. When US finally became free, they wanted to set up a government and country. The based some of theyre ideas off of another nation (an ancient one), which should be done but doesnt have to be. They quickly ran into problems. They fixed some of them and learned from them. All good for the Americans. Lets jump ahead a couple hundred years: people were complaining about alcohol and wanted it to be made illeagal. Later they banned it and in turn that was a mistake. Crime and illeagal activity went up because of it. They finally fixed and learned from it (I think they did it again before they finally learned from it but Im not to sure). They wont repeat that mistake again. Now a contry who tries to be well organized like the Americans are now from the beginning, if they hear such complaints they might ban alcohol there and inturn have to fix that mistake, but before they can they are taken over easily due to the turmoil in the country or too many people moved from the country. If a bad mistake happens to a guild too many members might leave or, they cant really do anything because of the turmoil.
In the story the Americans had an advantage over the other county because they were able to learn from mistake when they were less organized.
Dont think Im saying all this because my guild is new or something. We arnt and already have learned from mistakes. I just see that now, while at first they will be fine, the new guilds may eventually fall from the mistakes they should have, but could never learn from.
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They can still make mistakes with five members. More than that, they can learn from the already-established guilds. Potential guild leaders, if they are truly dedicated to their ideas, may want to talk to leaders of currently successful guilds, to learn from them. They can browse through the many many threads in the Guild Forum to read introductory posts, constructive criticism, and note the progress guilds have gone through.
It is all very, very easy. I don\'t think arguments that this is difficult have any foundation whatsoever.
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They can learn from other guilds but most guilds dont like to give away information to just anyone. So many times you have to get lucky and be good friends to get that information.
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Why, it is a highly-guarded secret on what makes a guild successful? The guild system is still in fetus stage in this game, Shadowcast ;) Moreover, there are still the guild forums to browse through, and they are full of wonderful information. There is Kada\'s Tavern (http://tavern.blueglyph.net/), with its own forum and friendly people willing to help. And you know what? If finding five people of similar mind is so unbelievably hard without a little label beneath someone\'s name that is completely OOC and should be ignored by all real roleplayers, maybe the guildleader should be someone else.
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I think it was a good idea.
When I first saw a post on this I ran online to see if my guild was still their, and gladly with 60 members, it is still their :).
(I am so glad I had soo much money at the time)
Hopefully this will stop the impedeing threat of, not over population, but too many guilds lol. I salute you Acraig.
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I dont want it removed I just want it changed. As I posted earlier I think it should be an annual fee. So anyone can star a guild but if its not good enough to pay at the end of the month then it would be deleted. And you can ass a rule to keep them from just making another guild right after that.
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And you can ass a rule to keep them from just making another guild right after that.
Why? Now that will definitely keep people from progressing. Many people here have made a guild, had it fail, learned from mistakes, and started another brilliant one. What\'s the problem with that? Guilds can become inactive, and guild leaders can plan entire news one while still being leaders of inactive guilds. I really don\'t see the point of this \"rule.\"
What you are suggesting, with an annual fee, does not take away the problem of guild-invite spam, nor does it require people to hold decent conversations about guilds before recruiting, nor does it force people to be -ready- when creating instead of creating on the spot. It doesn\'t actually help anything.
Why is it a better system, again?
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Wow you and I have very two different views on this subject. Well I guess it would be pretty boring here if we didnt.
First I didnt mean that person can never create a guild again just not right after his guild got deleted. This would keep them from getting around it. Second, although you believe in every guild being well organized, I dont. Some guilds, such ad a small guild of swordmakers, doesnt need to have organization. Every guild, organized or unorganized, can add a lot to the game. Also as you said if a guild fail the guild leader might create a new brilliant one, under my way resetting up such a guild would be easier. Third, I dont believe either way can help stop invite spam and non rp conversations to join. Recently my friend found a guy shouting to recruite members even though he never really had a guild yet. Even if what you want to happen actually happens before a guild is created, once it is they may just go back to invite spam and shouting for people to join and stuff. Forth, one flaw in the current way is that once a guild is created it stays created as long as it has five members, even if its members are inactive they still count, so if they whole guild is inactive you cant RIGHTFULLY remove them.
Well thats my opinion. This may be one of my lasts messages in this topic unless we spark something else.
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Originally posted by Shadowcast
Wow you and I have very two different views on this subject. Well I guess it would be pretty boring here if we didnt.
I agree, this keeps discussions interesting :)
First I didnt mean that person can never create a guild again just not right after his guild got deleted.
I understood that part - I just mean that it is entirely possible for someone in an inactive guild to start planning a new guild, then want to quit the inactive guild and immediately create the new one. Certainly that person can wait a few days or weeks if need be before creating, so I don\'t see the problem with your first point. However, there is a way of getting around it - have a friend create another guild, then transfer leadership. Problem solved.
Second, although you believe in every guild being well organized, I dont. Some guilds, such ad a small guild of swordmakers, doesnt need to have organization.
Pure chaos doesn\'t work well in guilds either, but I do understand that not everyone desires folds or ranks or whatnot. Still, this new guildsystem does not -force- people to be organized. It just makes it easier if they -are- organized. You can still have a guild of five people with absolutely no goals, no ideas, and no structure.
Also as you said if a guild fail the guild leader might create a new brilliant one, under my way resetting up such a guild would be easier.
Don\'t quite see that. Maybe I\'m just losing track of what was said in previous posts, though. Would help to explain your points to the fullest in each post :)
Third, I dont believe either way can help stop invite spam and non rp conversations to join. Recently my friend found a guy shouting to recruite members even though he never really had a guild yet.
I was on IRC when a GM mentioned that someone was using /shout for guild recruitment, and this was looked down upon quite quickly. I think the player got a warning.
Even if what you want to happen actually happens before a guild is created, once it is they may just go back to invite spam and shouting for people to join and stuff.
That is actually a very valid point. Maybe one solution to this could be made with a tweak in the invite system: instead of members of a guild giving out invites, interested individuals outside of the guild could make a sort of \"petition\" to guildleaders/overseers to get in. A separate tab for this in the Guild window in-game would suffice, with a listing of all \"petitioned\" names and reasons for wanting to join. Guildleaders could quickly weed out reasons that do not suit them (or delete entries that stated no reason at all), then add members they think would suit them. If a player sent out a petition to a certain guild, they cannot do it again until that petition is taken care of (so no applying to two guilds at once), and if the petition is rejected, they cannot reapply for a certain period of time. I would say three weeks.
I think this would take care of it.
Forth, one flaw in the current way is that once a guild is created it stays created as long as it has five members, even if its members are inactive they still count, so if they whole guild is inactive you cant RIGHTFULLY remove them.
I don\'t really see how this is a flaw? Inactive guilds occur. It\'s just something to deal with, just like inactive characters. There is always a possibility they may come back, so nothing is ever wiped permanently from the system unless the players choose to do so themselves.
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but not every guild should be well organized
Second, although you believe in every guild being well organized, I dont. Some guilds, such ad a small guild of swordmakers, doesnt need to have organization.
To me the whole point of a guild is to be organised, for example with swordsmakers they could have one person making all the hilts and another making all the blades making it a faster process.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Shadowcast
Even if what you want to happen actually happens before a guild is created, once it is they may just go back to invite spam and shouting for people to join and stuff.
That is actually a very valid point. Maybe one solution to this could be made with a tweak in the invite system: instead of members of a guild giving out invites, interested individuals outside of the guild could make a sort of \"petition\" to guildleaders/overseers to get in. A separate tab for this in the Guild window in-game would suffice, with a listing of all \"petitioned\" names and reasons for wanting to join. Guildleaders could quickly weed out reasons that do not suit them (or delete entries that stated no reason at all), then add members they think would suit them. If a player sent out a petition to a certain guild, they cannot do it again until that petition is taken care of (so no applying to two guilds at once), and if the petition is rejected, they cannot reapply for a certain period of time. I would say three weeks.
This is a good idea. Although I sometimes get suspicious when someone really wants to join our guild, exspecially when we have major enemies, this still would solve guild invites problem. Maybe you could also add a limit the number of invites a person/guild can send out in a week/month.
Really no matter which one they choose, both are going to have downsides. I guess it would be impossoble to make a perfect system for it.
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Maybe you could discourage guilds from inviting players randomly and lower the amount of invite spam:
Instead of paying a fee at the creation of a guild, one could change this rule so that every player has to pay a fee (lets say 500-1000 tria) when he/she joins. As a result they would think twice before they join a guild and pay the fee; and the perspective guild members would try to get more information about the guild and its aims before joining. So guilds won\'t spam invites, because they know most of the invited players won\'t join until they have the required fee.
And if you change the system of invites, too, as it already was suggested before
Maybe one solution to this could be made with a tweak in the invite system: instead of members of a guild giving out invites, interested individuals outside of the guild could make a sort of \"petition\" to guildleaders/overseers to get in.
it would be even better, because there would be no possibility for guilds to spam invites AND the perspective guild members will (hopefully) try to get more informed about the guild they want to join. (Maybe even through RP.) Nice, isn\'t it? ;)
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Well this topic I can understand and respect. I had ask a GM if there was conditions for making a guild he said no! Now I see all what I did was for nothing till i have 5 people with me within 5 min. I will slowly recruit players if I feel they can contribute to my guild as well be loyal. There need to be more time for recruiting so others can learn to respect the guild name and personelles operating it. So the Grandmaster of the guild needs weeks to prove to others the guilds strengths. Otherwise guilds can\'t be stable, with a short future. When I played Everquest I made a guild that had peaked over 700 players. Took 2 years. to develope and many quit there well established guilds to join mine. At least i had some time to develope members at the beginning.
I never asked for those to join. They must want to join. Then they must prove they\'re value/loyalty to a guild.
So what am I suppost to do now?
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You start building your guild outside of the game, with written documents stating your intentions and planning out the strucutre, or a website, then TALK to people in-game to find who would make a good member. How does this new system change ANY of that? If you find someone who is interested in your guild, \"claim\" them! That person isn\'t going to go away randomly if he or she is truly appropriate for your organization, right? Have them sign up on your guild forums, add them to the member list on your guild site. And keep doing this until you hit five members, then gather them all together at one time in-game, and create the guild. You\'re going to need the funds for guild creation anyway, so you\'ll have time for this.
Not a big deal. Repeat after me: Not a big deal :)
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Perhaps this is an old topic, but as a new user, I have one comment to make on this. I game with a select few people. When forming a guild in anygame we have played we are very paticular about it. The price is not the issue here, the size requirement could be a problem in the future final release.
We very often have only 4 memebers which are our core gamers. We are not closed to more than that, just very paticular about who we bring in. You speak of orginazation of the guild, and order.. just having to pick up random people to fill in spots to make the required 10 member min is the cause for many a downfall of a guild.
In a guild, personalities have to mesh, ideals and belifes need to be in sync other wise you will have broken guilds all over the place.
Perhaps as a new player to this game, my opinion on this will matter little. But as a player of many games, to include guildwars, Final Fantasy xi, Kal online, knight online, and many more, and with experiance being both a leader of a guild and a member. These are things that would indeed trouble me.
I can not see our branch of players starting a guild here for the simple fact of forced requirements of 10 members. It is a shame for this game looks like it has great promise, I hope that perhaps this would become a little more lax in the future.
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...Ten? I thought the minimum was five. Has this been changed recently?
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I believe the minimum is still 5, although the Guilds page on the PS website still says 10.
Originally posted by Velaria
We very often have only 4 members which are our core gamers. We are not closed to more than that, just very particular about who we bring in. You speak of organization of the guild, and order.. just having to pick up random people to fill in spots to make the required 10 member min is the cause for many a downfall of a guild.
In a guild, personalities have to mesh, ideals and beliefs need to be in sync other wise you will have broken guilds all over the place.
Velaria, these are the very reasons that the current rules were instated. Although the \"official\" rules state a minimum guild size of 10, that had never been enforced. The minimum is now 5 members, and it is enforced by the game code. Hopefully you can find a fifth who shares your values.
With PlaneShift currently in alpha (or pre-alpha, depending on who you ask) stage, it is almost guaranteed that the current rules will be revised, if not totally thrown out and rewritten, several more times before the game is \"finished\".
Karyuu--I have determined that you must actually live within the PlaneShift forums. Is there a single thread on this site that you haven\'t responded to?
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Nice to know that another drastic change hasn\'t occured without warning ;) I think the point stands, however, that in reality ~4 people alone can work as a group without creating a guild, and keep in touch with each other on various mediums both within the client, and outside of it. Dictionary.com defines \"guild\" as: an association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards. It\'s a very official sort of organization, and while requiring a minimum of ten members is iffy for a pre-alpha, five is not outrageous by any means.
Karyuu--I have determined that you must actually live within the PlaneShift forums. Is there a single thread on this site that you haven\'t responded to?
Plenty, and I plan on keeping it that way ;)