PlaneShift
Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: r.guppy on August 20, 2005, 06:09:49 am
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after this update i noticed my guild name was gone, on clicking guild i was asked to type in guild name.
spotted GM asked why my guild was no more, told how meny members you got, i said four, was told need five, was then told need five members and 20k to start guild.
i new nothing of this. so whent strait to forum to see if i could find out in guild forum nothing,
loged on asked anuther GM were i might find post, ans new rule was not posted yet.
my fith member ( hew edits my spelling) cannot get on line yet as new update for mac does not work on here computer.
so help please.
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Greetings,
There is a new rule that all guilds are going to have to adapt to. Acraig posted an explanation here (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=18676&boardid=33&styleid=4).
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thank you for your promt reply.
but why as it involves guilds was it not put in here.
and i would have been 5 if all macs were able to play.
thank you :)
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I knew about this plan for a while, mainly from hanging around on IRC and learning from various dev and WTB members, so it wasn\'t a surprise. I am surprised, however, that this was put in motion without any real warning on the main website, as this is a big change in the guild system. So on that I agree with all the angry commotion ;)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I knew about this plan for a while, mainly from hanging around on IRC and learning from various dev and WTB members, so it wasn\'t a surprise. I am surprised, however, that this was put in motion without any real warning on the main website, as this is a big change in the guild system. So on that I agree with all the angry commotion ;)
5 min was all they got? And to think there was nothing I could even do to save mine seing as this occured while I was at work. I realy have to say that this was very poorly done.
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I think for general purposes, five minutes is enough time once the rules are truly made publicly known and spread to everyone. Members should be ready at guild creation and check that they have everything necessary before proceeding. This is addressing the future, of course, not the current frustration people are experiencing. I think it\'s widely agreed at this point that the order of things in this guild change wasn\'t organized well enough to help the player base adjust smoothly, but bumps in the road happen in the testing process, and after some frustration, the road becomes smooth again.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I think for general purposes, five minutes is enough time once the rules are truly made publicly known and spread to everyone. Members should be ready at guild creation and check that they have everything necessary before proceeding. This is addressing the future, of course, not the current frustration people are experiencing. I think it\'s widely agreed at this point that the order of things in this guild change wasn\'t organized well enough to help the player base adjust smoothly, but bumps in the road happen in the testing process, and after some frustration, the road becomes smooth again.
The problem is Karyuu that this was not made publicly known and spread to every one. I was on before leaving for work today and no warning had yet been given. This whole fiasco happen WHILE I WAS AT WORK.
And I am willing to bet that I was far from the only one.
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At least it might get rid of someof the absolutely pointless guilds (Like, \"GameProz\"... Tell me they arn\'t PGs!!!)
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Originally posted by Hatchnet
The problem is Karyuu that this was not made publicly known and spread to every one.
You know, Hatchnet, for all your speak of \"if you would\'ve read those threads\" and \"if you would\'ve read those posts,\" you seem to do very little reading of your own. I myself have stated that this was badly planned and badly put in motion, in this very thread. I am well aware of the problems this gave birth to.
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I think that what everyone here is saying is that the ends do not justify the means, but the ends justify the means... Make sense? Not to me either, but that\'s what it sounds like to me... What\'s done is done. Just get your recruitment threads up and recruiting and start saving Tria like there\'s no tommorow. Sure this was badly timed, poorly executed, and if there is another wipe coming soon, utterly pointless, but we can\'t change that now. In order to recreate everything that was lost in the wipe, the information would take so long to resurect on the server that it would push back more important things. You try to figure that out. Coherency has never been my strongpoint, but what have you? The only thing left to do is to get on with our lives, fight monsters and mine ore, ect. and make the cash we need. I\'d be working right now, but I have to leave for a Tang Soo Do demonstration (soon? :P)
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Please, everyone take a cue from Jakob/Arew, and do what he is doing.
The VanGuard web site is up; it\'s not terribly complete at the moment, but there\'s more to it today than there was yesterday. He has created forums for anyone who wishes to join. He has posted on the Guilds Forum with the Guild history and structure, and he\'s saving up his money.
Is VanGuards a \"Guild\"? No. Does that mean it doesn\'t exist? NO!
It is a new Guild (in terms of the current game; I do understand there is a history), and needs to go through a growth process. This will take some time, as it should. In what should be a fairly short period of time, it will grow and prosper, or it will die. Or it will continue on indefinitely as a pseudo-Guild, until one day it (hopefully) awakens and prospers.
The point is that the Guild will live or die based on its merits as a Guild, in the context of the game, not based on the fact that a few people want to get together and form a club.
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If you have less than four members in your guild, and it was deleted, now is the time to start organising your guild structure better so that you attract more willing members. This change will help encourage all guilds to think carefully about their structure and their name (because if your guild is deleted for having an unsuitable name, there will be no refunds). I was thoroughly against having just 5 minutes warning, and I knew everyone would be angry, but what could I do? :( If there was anything more I could have said to influence what was decided, I would have bugged people to *hell* untill they listened to me. But, sorry... I was ignored. ._.
The official opinion on small guilds is now apparently \"they can just use /group, that\'s what it\'s there for\".
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I respectful ask you to read my thread Janners way.
I would also like to point out if all platforms were online i would have been five.
also if there were a post warning of this happening i would have got my 5 th member on a pc to join the guild , but as no warning was to be seen in guilds part of forum i did not no, so thought no hurry. :)
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We\'ll just be a step ahead of the bigger guilds, who will never have had to do this type of thing before after the next wipe... We\'ll get a faster start because we\'ll already know how to go about setting things up.
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I assure you, Jakob, larger guilds have already caught wind of this, and having more members, will find the task of gathering the sufficient funds much easier.
There is no being a step ahead of other guilds, when all you are doing is setting them up in-game.
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Sure... Prevent me from trying to make the people who are feeling upset and sad feel better. I know that, but was hoping to stop people fighting over it. Apparently that has happened anyway so whatever...
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I was only stating things as they are. There are no fights in any of the Guild Wipe threads, only frustration and a slow understanding and acceptance. I don\'t think there is any particular reason to kill the discussions if they are held in a mature manner, too. So far so good, no flames.
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I must thank you all for your comments and input. thank you.
just so you all no i was four at wipe of guild, but now i am a guild( non guild) of six. yes five minutes is tight but i managed it just pew :)
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Originally posted by Moogie
If you have less than four members in your guild, and it was deleted, now is the time to start organising your guild structure better so that you attract more willing members.
Is it your way to write : \"no national guild allowed?\" or no \"non english speaker guild allowed\"?
Because if mine was international Im sure I could find 10 members in less than 4hours (but 5french members... when your active members are away for holidays... its pretty hard)
Nice rules! nice organization once again...
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Originally posted by fken
Originally posted by Moogie
If you have less than four members in your guild, and it was deleted, now is the time to start organising your guild structure better so that you attract more willing members.
Is it your way to write : \"no national guild allowed?\" or no \"non english speaker guild allowed\"?
It could be just me, but I see none of that in Moogie\'s post...
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He\'s trying to say that it\'s unrealistic to expect an American, a European, and an Asian to be around at the same time, within 5 minutes is just not reasonable under those circumstances. I personally don\'t think it\'s an issue, but whatever. 8)
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a couple of questions. first is this 5 minutes automatic?
or does it go through gm approval.
second is there like a little toggle that will hold off that kill guild command for 12 hours. a petition to a gm saying i\'m creating guild xyz with members foo, bar, baz, wabble, wibble, and wobble. and the gm then sets the clock. after it runs out then the (maybe a good thing for the next server update) or am i writing a design document at this point. given that i haven\'t seen that in the update info, i\'m guessing i\'m writing a bit of a wish list item.
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Why? If you have all that information and know what you\'re doing, I don\'t see what difference it would make for you to just wait untill you have 5 minutes spare time.
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1) I wasnt aware developpers wanted to implement this new rule. Please dont tell me I am an exception!
2) Having a non english speakers guild mean you have to be sure that all your members are ready to be invited to the guild because then you\'ll have to invite everybody just to keep your guild. (having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)
3) If you wanna save your guild you just need two player : one for creating and recruiting the other to create rogue account just to add members
4) I hope there will never have a server crash or you could pay 20000trias for nothing
5) as long as the dev dont let users to participate to the project by really speaking about their project, I cant see what forbid the possibility to see other wipes and other \"changes\"like that!
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Originally posted by fken
1) I wasnt aware developpers wanted to implement this new rule. Please dont tell me I am an exception!
It was indeed better if they had announced it earlier, Acraig has already stated they will do so if they have more \"changes of this nature\". So, better luck next time, nobody is perfect.
2) Having a non english speakers guild mean you have to be sure that all your members are ready to be invited to the guild because then you\'ll have to invite everybody just to keep your guild. (having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)
All this has nothing to do with having a non English speakers guild or not. Everybody is supposed to find potential members on beforehand. (Nobody can recrute 4 members in 5 minutes, that\'s why they chose such a short time span I suppose). It\'s only an advantage if all your members come from the same geographical region, since that makes it easier to scedule a meeting. I understand your point that it\'s harder for a french guild to find suitable people, since people who speak french are a minority in PS, but then again, an RP based guild has the same problems. (Think of how much time it would take to find 4 other bards, monks or thieves who are willing to start a guild with you.)
3) If you wanna save your guild you just need two player : one for creating and recruiting the other to create rogue account just to add members
That\'s plain cheating. Besides I think it\'s quite challaging to do that all in 5 minutes.
4) I hope there will never have a server crash or you could pay 20000trias for nothing
I hope so too, or I hope they implement a system that makes you pay after you created the guild or that gives your back your money if the guild creation fails.
5) as long as the dev dont let users to participate to the project by really speaking about their project, I cant see what forbid the possibility to see other wipes and other \"changes\"like that!
What do you think the forums and the IRC channels are for? Besides that, PS is in the first place about developers making a game because they like to do so. We should be a bit more grateful and whine a bit less. What ever they do or change, there\'ll always be people complaining about it. Of course: game play is far from perfect yet, but they do the best they can.
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(having a national guild for a too little game means you wont find a lot of candidates)
Good. Guilds restricted by OOC factors such as a player\'s nationality or mother tongue deserve as little support as possible, IMO.
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Yes the devs & co. do a great job and yes it is a great game but I would like to point out that to change the rules (in this case guild rules) without proper warning, in guild channels, is asking for this kind of angry and frustrated response. Especially since the new rules have still not been officially posted in the guilds forum.
I would also like to point out that we are also doing them a favour by testing the game, and where possible finding bugs and reporting them, leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.
I for one would like to thank everybody for their involvement in the game whether players, devs or gms etc. :)
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Originally posted by r.guppy
Yes the devs & co. do a great job and yes it is a great game but I would like to point out that to change the rules (in this case guild rules) without proper warning, in guild channels, is asking for this kind of angry and frustrated response.
Some kind of prior proper announcement would be nice yes, but remember, Devs are Devs, not PR experts.
You must not forget that it was your own choice to take your chance at trying out this project, still at pre-beta stage.
I\'m quite happy for that privilege alone. Instead of having to follow it\'s progress by reading some logs and screenshots on some website, waiting for the final beta version.
So, keep in mind that things will keep happening, some suddenly, some not, some nice, some not that nice, some planned, some just unfortunate accidents, etc...
Originally posted by r.guppy
I would also like to point out that we are also doing them a favour by testing the game, and where possible finding bugs and reporting them, leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.
It\'s mutual. You think we\'re doing them a favour by testing it but you should know the amount of work involved in simply understanding (pseudo) bug reports, some with not enough data to be useful, some others simply not bugs or misleading, etc...
So, as you can see, we may complain about some things not being done properly from a user point of view (and rightly so) but remember that you usually don\'t see the same kind of rants from devs complaining about duplicate, confusing and misleading bug reports, isn\'t it so ? :)
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you miss the point.
all i was saying was that although the brilliant work of the devs is much appreciated and and the problems they face understood, they must expect some criticism when they make changes without warning when a warning would have been feasible.
\"leaving them free to do the all important development and programming.\"
meaning I acknowledge the fact that their work is far more important than merely testing.
As for bug reports; when I submitted one I first read the guide and to my utter confusion found the report form totally different to that described in the guide. It\'s no wonder they get misleading and incomplete reports.
I see this as a two way street (information is meant to flow both ways, like all major roadways throughout the world they are all governed by rules without which the flow would cease). :)
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hmm have to say five minutes seems to be to little time. Specially in guilds hanging around that number. How can you check in every five minutes to check if noone left?
I also asume this means you need to have five members online at the same time when making a new guild. Think five are a lot of people to get online at the same time if you are starting a new guild.
Good. Guilds restricted by OOC factors such as a player\'s nationality or mother tongue deserve as little support as possible, IMO.
Agree moogie but this time limitation seems to encourage guilds started by people from the same timezone not discourage it. Don\'t really call it a guild below 4 persons ;)
PS: seems to encourage massrecruiting of newbies to start a guild aswell. That way you would be safe from falling below the dreaded 5 members ;)
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I don\'t see how it encourages massrecruiting, myself. I mean people aren\'t likely to agree to \"Hey, I\'m just starting a guild and I really need members, badly. Want to join?\" without any other information. And if other information is there, to be shared, then it\'s not mass recruiting, it\'s the beginning of what is hopefully a roleplay session and the explanation of the soon-to-be-created guild. And if some newbies do agree to that former statement with no other input, how long will such a guild survive? I\'ll give them a week, tops.
Seems like a fine system to me.
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pffff I hate the peanut guys who thought it was interesting to apply shortcut with backspace button... I just lost everything i wrote...
So to sum up :
I already saw a lot of mass recruiting issues since MB So it wont change anything just accelerate the thing.
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@Moogie : the game isnt big enough to apply this kind of rules... it seems to be bad pride in my mind... The game isnt big enough to interest a normal newbee more than 1week so it\'s really not the time to invent this kind of rules : there are a lot of more useful things to do before.
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@hitancrias : i said I aggree with you but I must precise one thing : if finding a good member is hard finding a good french (or german or dutch or indian or russian and so one) members is harder.
French isnt the good example to explain what you wanna say : french timezones are very dispatched : Canada, Belgium/France/etc, African countries, pacific and atlantic islands are french speakers places.
Moreover I liked others players. Speaking with players from France isnt very interesting for my culture but playing with people with other culture or language interest me. That\'s why I cant play very longer to a french mmorpg... it become annoying : nothing to learn. But I respect the rules of the developpers and then creating a guild require my entire control over the guild because I was responsible of my members... I thought its dangerous to create an international guild because I wouldnt be able to control everything especially in the forum...
-> Edhelgarth was designed for french speakers.
NB : I was happy to see one day an australian who spoke a very good french and wanted to recruit him. I had a Canadien member and I was proud of it.
EDIT : I only had the feeling that developpers listened to players once: with the mushroom spawn for the old mb players. I am very respectful of their job and dont want to be too rude: it was just my feeling.
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Well before this thread is closed.. even though it has stayed on topic about Janner\'s guild being disband because of the new rules and a discussion of the new rules... I would like to say my peace.
I have never spoke out against any Dev... and I highly respect them for what they do. But I do not agree with what happened this time around. I believe that the new rules are unfair, and decriminate against small, effeiceint guilds (wish I could spell). 5 is such an arbitrary number... and not to mention the 20k you would have to come up with. I understand it is easy to get now... but what about later? And who can raise the 20k easier a guild of 5 or a guild of 50? This does encourage mass recruiting. It seems most MMORPGs start out with good intentions focusing on role playing... but as more people flock to the game it gets diluted.. and becomes something that is unrecognizable to someone who was an original member. This just seems like the first step of that process.
But that to me is not the biggest issue here. I wish there would have been a sticky made by Talad or Acraig posting these new changes and seeing how people felt about it. I know Karyuu said it was discussed in the IRC channel.. but I get bored of sitting around there when people are either not talking or are just BSing with one another. Im sure after this is posted someone will say \"This is the Devs game and they will do what they want.\" And to an extent that is true. But dont forget about the people you are so kindly making it for. We are here to be apart of the process of making PS a successful MMORPG. We are a Community.... which seems to be a word long forgotten by too many around here.
This is the reason I stay. I feel as if I am apart of something special here.. I assume most people who decide to stay feel the same. I will see PS through until it is finished atleast... most likely I will never leave as long as my good friends stay as well. But I hate to say this believe me I do, dont take us for granted... We would never do that to you and sorry if you feel that way at times. We are all in this together unless it is me that is misinformed. I want to help... any way that I can... and I know many others willing but we dont have those certain talents to be a Dev ourselves. So we try to help by giving feedback and anything else that we can. Obviously many of us care enough to be here and to return after times of absence. Im going to stop there for now... I hope as many people as possible get to view this and post their thoughts... thx
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A very nice post, Valbrandr :) Except I would like to commend on one thing:
Originally posted by Valbrandr
And who can raise the 20k easier a guild of 5 or a guild of 50? This does encourage mass recruiting.
But there is an element of required conversation that was missing earlier with free guild-invites. Now people have to talk to one another to share guild ideas and search for potential members. It is no longer \"Woah! Random guild invite... What is this about? Hm, no idea. Let\'s click Accept!\" If someone manages to recruit fifty members with this new guild system without having a pretty organized guild, without a decent story and overall description, I am going to be mightily surprised. If this occurs, I would really like to be informed of it.
All this means is that people will no longer create guilds on the spot, and if they do, they will either fail right there and then or within a few days. A week will have to be spent creating a guild, or a few weeks, or an entire month, as it should be. It is no longer a matter to be taken lightly.
Also, to those that believe the Devs do not listen to the playerbase: there are many players who agree with these rules, wholeheartedly. So certainly the dev team isn\'t out on a let\'s-make-everyone-unhappy rampage. I think it is now widely known that the five-minute time period isn\'t enough, and this may be adjusted. The price isn\'t likely to fall, since the original suggestion has actually been 100k. Let\'s consider ourselves lucky ;) The playerbase isn\'t ignored if the arguments made are solid, and some of them are. But if you do not get your way, if something changes for what you think is the worse, I think it\'s folly to believe that you are being ignored by the dev team.
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I seen you posted Karyuu and I thought that I was done for :(, hehe..
I dont believe that the Devs ignore us or dont listen in one way or another. However, at times, it seems that they go to far to change the system. For instance, when we were discussing names being changed... and it became a heated arguement then it came out that the rules had changed and had become more lax. But that is not what many of us wanted... well let me speak for myself I guess.. It is not what I wanted. Just to know that the current rules were not abused by a GMs personnal preferences.
And at first, I thought \"You know, these rules are okay and they can help.\" But that soon changed... I kept thinking about it and I started to dislike it more and more, and I was talking with my friends who did not agree either and then fken disbands his guild... in which the main reason he stated was because of this incident. Yes this new system means that people cant just create a guild because they just feel the need or think of a cool name which is a very good thing. But with those type of requirements, not that they are extremely harsh, and coupled with the way it was integrated... In my mind it was good intentions but wrong implementation.
Not sure about the mass recruiting tactic of invite on site... but I do know of other ways that guilds can become quite large just so that they have the largest guild... Like each member creating 4 alts so instead of having 70 members they have close to 280. But truthfully I have noticed in game that many people dont care. Cool guild name, maybe, if you get to that part, they just like the alignment, or whatever and they join to be apart of something. It does happen... it is very tough to rack up guild members if some do not join for those reasons. But there are legitimate larger guilds out there.
Edit: You seem to change your siggy as much as your hair :D
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@edit: I can\'t stick to the same graphic for too long :D
About the name change: It appeared that even though many people were arguing for the strict rules, there were too many complaints to ignore. Frankly I disagree with Vengeance on his decision to loosen the rules up, and I will continue to argue for the previous rules, so that names such as \"Goblin\" do not go unchanged, as they have been left alone now. But it just goes to show that no one\'s opinion or argument is being left unheard. It is very hard to please all sides at once, so I hope that constant adjustments will be made until all the many parties of an argument will reach a compromise.
But with those type of requirements, not that they are extremely harsh, and coupled with the way it was integrated... In my mind it was good intentions but wrong implementation.
Acraig posted that they will try to give better warnings when something this drastic is going to be changed to the system :) I think that is the only thing people really disliked, and of course the five-minute rule. It really does make it hard for players from different time zones to get together, that much is definite. I think twenty-four hours is insane, one hour maybe enough, but nowhere more than six.
Other than that, I think I\'m done with the argument ;)
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24 hours crazy? Why? I mean we are talking different timezones and people sleep for 8 hours. I agree perhaps 10 hours is enough but I don\'t think people are going to create the guild over and over again each day for 20,000. I mean I haven\'t seen any loot you can sell for that much in one time and I have been told the loot will be made less extravagant before the wipe and without uberweapons there will be many very hard to kill that give high loot aswell.
The prize of creating the guild should get rid of the newbie guild not the time.
Anyhow how do you need to have a story now? You create the guild with a friend and you massinvite hoping 3 will say yes before your time is up and after that one continues to get as far away from the border as possible to lets say 20 so you don\'t have to worry about a few leaving when they don\'t like the guild afterall.
Many beginning guilds would be inviting for reasons involving the border at first not roleplaying
Now not saying I am against the rules exept I would like the five minutes changed. I do think they are an improvement as I really are annoyed sometimes by newbies just getting a guildname, but it also does encourage things like massrecruiting
Every good point has a bad side. Acknowledging that is the way of damagecontrol ;)
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I think Karyuu did a very good job explaining the other side and I feel much better and more positive then I did before. Of course the 5 minute rule would need to go... but Looking at it from one more angle... you would get people who will start saying \"Hey will you join my guild until I get a few more members, you dont have to stay or anything just if you could please help me out.\" Same basic thing that goes on in WoW getting 10 people to sign the charter.. I did it for a few people just so they could have their guild. Its tough to say what would be more effective... But I remember someone saying something about not being able to start a guild unless you have x amount of posts at the forum.. or maybe that was to make a thread but either way sounds good to me :D.
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Ahh, Pestilence. My favorite debater :3
Originally posted by Pestilence
24 hours crazy? Why? I mean we are talking different timezones and people sleep for 8 hours.
Because that gives people more time to spam with invites. Five minutes was good in that you\'ll be lucky if you manage to get ONE random member you never knew into your guild before the time is up, but we are all aware of the downfall of this, too. I think six hours is fine. People will just have to compromise one or two hours of sleep - it\'s nowhere near as bad as having to wake up around 4am for a few minutes of being present at guild creation.
Right now, for example, a player from Hawaii is up and awake at 1pm. A player from Japan, 8am. A player from New York, 7pm. 1am by Norway, 3am by Moscow. Adjust these by just 2-3 hours (weekend?) and people should survive.
I\'m willing to say that eight hours is okay, but 24? There is only a 12-hour difference between timezones at most. And that is still too much.
[...] I don\'t think people are going to create the guild over and over again each day for 20,000. I mean I haven\'t seen any loot you can sell for that much in one time and I have been told the loot will be made less extravagant before the wipe and without uberweapons there will be many very hard to kill that give high loot aswell.
Pestilence, this has been said so many times that I\'m getting a little tired, you\'ll have to excuse me. Creating a guild is not meant to be easy. YES you might have to spend weeks, YES you might have to spend months, getting everything ready. This includes the cost. I doubt it would take more a single month for five players to reach 20k for a guild. And if they don\'t have the time for this, they\'re not going to be a very active guild, something we do not need.
Anyhow how do you need to have a story now? You create the guild with a friend and you massinvite hoping 3 will say yes before your time is up and after that one continues to get as far away from the border as possible to lets say 20 so you don\'t have to worry about a few leaving when they don\'t like the guild afterall.
I am hoping that any guildleader/member that spams others with \"Please join my guild before the time is up, I\'ll explain everything to you later\" will get a very strict warning from GMs. This is harassment, and abuse of the system.
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Karyuu you wouldn\'t be smart to waste time actually talking with people. You just picka time when many newbies are around use /who to get all unguilded and speed type them all in the invitebox.
How could a GM ban this? A GM wouldn\'t even notice it as far as I know unless they record all invites made and go check it.
Anyhow the point is I think it should be 24 hours becuase if you have like 7 people who want to be in your guild you shouldn\'t be held up becuase you can\'t be online at the same time becuase people have jobs and such that makes their PS time pretty fixed.
I don\'t think PS should have a system that makes it hard to make a guild without people having to get up at 4am if you aren\'t all in the same timezone becuase you met on the forums for example.
Timezones aren\'t just hinderness becuase of people sleeping (BTW you need to add it up 8+8 is 16 hours of the 24 hours unless their sleeps overlap and then it\'s not like 8+8-3(overlapping)=13 hours) there is also things like work and school during the week and sports and activities during the weekend.
Anyhow seems it has already been changed anyhow. Almost wish it was 5 minutes now seeing shout recruiting gets on my nerves ;), but with a timelimit and playernumber demand I guess it will happen more often :(
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Originally posted by Pestilence
Anyhow seems it has already been changed anyhow. Almost wish it was 5 minutes now seeing shout recruiting gets on my nerves ;), but with a timelimit and playernumber demand I guess it will happen more often :(
Has it been changed? What are the new rules? Once again, I can\'t seem to find any information in the \"official\" channels.
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No idea but saw someone create a guild and it wasn\'t gone in five minutes eventhough he said he didn\'t have five members yet and was recruiting.
Can\'t remember the name I am afraid.