PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Pheonix on October 21, 2002, 09:30:39 am
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While in a perfect world for me there would be no idiots spamming and blocking doors , its been my experience that most if not all online games attracts its share of twits.
My primary concern is for the shop, and tavern owners.
I think there should be a system where the owner of the establishment should be able to force any character he finds less than desirable outside of his/her bussiness.
There should also be a way to ban characters from your shop.
Also there should be a time limit for Players to conversate with NPC employees. In the game Tibia for example there are certain individuals who like to talk to a shop keeper, since the Npc\'s can only handle one player at a time they will sit there idling for annoyances sake. This causes aggitation as you have to wait for one idiot to sat goodbye before you can begin any interaction.
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I know. I play Tibia too, and it gets to the point where shopping is more adrenalin pumped than th battles. I liked how they did it in Ultima Online. Lots of people could use one vendor. Right click on him and a screen of items to buy or sell shows up.
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Sounds good.
Maybe there could be a marking system so you could mark the schmucks(sp). The problem is once again there\'s gonna be a handful of hidiots running around abusing it.
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I don\'t think players should be able to own shops, NPCs should, No one is going to sit around in a store waiting for people to come in there will be alot of deserted stores, The Resale system cant work in a game like it does in real life, if they do it in game, everyone will sell everything for the same exact price, unlike real life its easier to go somewhere else in game to buy something for cheaper. in real life someone isnt going to go to the next town to save a few bucks. Go ahead and reply to this saying oh yeah you would like to sit in a store and stuff, well you wont, Player Owned stores is just a stupid idea.
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I for one want to own a shop.
The point of the Employee Npc\'s
is that you would not have to sit in your shop.
Instead you pay them to look after your shop while you
go out and do what you will.
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Exactly. But Link has a point. In UO there are literally hundreds of shops sitting around in the middle of nowhere. I don\'t think players shouldn\'t own shops, but they should think if thats a good place to open a shop.
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Ok then, Maybe the shops should cost outrages ammounts, and if you dont bring in enough profit, after paying npc, resale, and everything, then you would be shut down.
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I think it\'d be better if they just had moderate operating costs, so that having a shop in the middle of nowhere would actually cost you money to keep it open, but if your shop is getting patronage, then you\'ll make money off it still.
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I agree with Link it should cost a LOT, more so than houses would, because your not even making money from houses, which you are from your shop...maybe it could be cheaper in places where there are less people..but so not every person who comes by some money can buy it, just those who are willing to put the money into it
and if they are running low on money they could always be bought out ;)
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Why can\'t we just do what people did in old days(1930s and such) with the stores on the bottom of the appartments? Think about it, if you buy a big enough house, why can\'t you take a room and turn it into a shop that is locked off from the rest of the house, that way, you can\'t \'make\' your shop wherever you want, but yet, you can...
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I like that idea, froming from the old 30\'s, and still see them around today(hardly though) I think the shopes should be like that, but also have the choice to make them normal shops.
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Sounds like a plan, man. Shop/house. I liked the ideea of expensive shops the most. I don\'t think the building should cost as much, just paying the NPCs and stocking your shoppe and what-not. What about theft? has that been facored into the game? YOu would also have to pay for stolen merchandise.
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the shop/house thing should cost al ot more than an average shop, otherwise people will just make a shop/house instead of a house (or a shop) and there will be too many little business that wont last long
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There should definetly be theft. A couple of reasons(I am thinking off the top of my head) support that.
1.There is the ability to make a theif character. What is the point of a theif character that can\'t steal?
2.It would make you stay on your toes(as the shop keeper) and buy some security stuff like cases and locks and all creating money sinks in buying those from npcs, or buying them from characters.
3.It would give rise to a bounty hunter/cop proffession. You get robbed, you call Joe Shmoe to go kill the robber and get your stuff back. You pay Joe Shmoe and you kill the robber every time he comes back. A whole new profession is born...bouncers.
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Well its a great idea and all, with one minor problem, if someone steals from you, and theres no pk so u cant attack them, theives could do whatever they want, repeatidly try to steal, and u wouldnt be able to do anything to them
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While we are at it lets make Total Chaos, every man for himself, if you cant afford food, then you die. You should have hunger! after running and stuff you have to eat and sleep. And if you dont, you die and someone can take all your stuff including your store.
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Originally posted by kyalin
and theres no pk so u cant attack them, theives could do whatever they want, repeatidly try to steal, and u wouldnt be able to do anything to them
but what if someone who steals something becomes an outlaw and becomes pervious to harm (from other players). Then you can hunt him down. (if he can get away he loses this status)
PS. Pay carefull attention Relentless and Kyalin cause i will say this only once: THIEVES! :P
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I dont like it. Ppl with really nice stats could basically do whatever they want.
THey steal they run and log out for a while then play like nothing ever happened.
If thievery is to be part of the game then there should be great risks involved. I think those risks should be equal to if not greater than the risk that the shop owners are going to have to manage.
What the risks that they should take I dont know yet but being susceptible to the chance of pking for a while doesnt seem enough for my liking.
Perhaps if you have a guard and the player is caught
he kills him automatically. No escape no chances.
Perhaps even a blackmark goes against the player making costs for items go up by double. Making him likely to want to adopt a life of crime since things our now outrageously priced.
Just a thought
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I am still thinking in terms of Neocron where you can pk anyone anytime if they enter of the pkable zones of the game which make up 99% of the game, so if it is not possible in planeshift, just smack me.
High level theives(get used to it, \'i before e\' is discrimination, especially with that whole \'after c\' thing :D ) would be able to easily steal, yes, but they would be completley and positivley inferior in every single combat type to a combat class(unless you want to do a *DAoC thing with infiltrators which is actually quite fun, I will explain at the bottom of my post.) Therefore, a bouncer tank person would easily be able to kill the theif and get the stuff back, i.e. bounty hunters.
*Said DAoC thing:
In Dark Ages of Camelot, there is a class called \"Infiltrator.\" The infiltrator sucks at combat, it will get killed in 2 seconds in a fair fight, so what does the infiltrator do? Fight unfairly. The infiltrator has a hide ability where they are invisible(what level you are to how many points in stealth determines how efficient your hide is and how close someone has to get to see you.) While hidden, they have a series of combat styles (Critical Strike) generic only to them, the most popular is different levels of a backstab. The opening backstab and following critical strike moves can easily take out half a persons life. On top of that, infiltrators can poison their blades with harming poisons, slowing poisons, poisons to prevent hp recovery, so on. With all of those skills combined, an infiltrator can take out someone of a higher level with no problem, with one catch: they must be invisible and behind the person. If they person sees them, the infiltrator is dead. If ther infiltrator isn\'t behind them, the infiltrator is dead. If one of the guys friends comes to help, the infiltrator is dead. Fun thing about infiltrators is that: if you get pretty far into your fight, even if you die, your poisons will finish the job. Basicly, when the infiltrator dosn\'t have the suprise, the infiltrator loses. If the infiltrator gets the suprise, there are 2 possible outcomes. 1.The infiltrator wins the fight. 2.The infiltrator dies, the poisons kill the other person, and the infiltrator wins the fight.
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It\'s the size of the object stolen and the person from whom it was stolen. Theft could work as long as there are limits. Master thieves shouldn\'t be concerned with the new guy in the corner hoarding his 2 gp. Those guys are small potatoes. Thus a level limit on the low end would protect newbies from master thieves.
Ok, here\'s what you need if you include pickpocketing.
#1. A Fence. Someone who buys stolen goods and sells them at a profit. He pays the theives (or the Guild Master for being able to run his business). Fences don\'t care who they sell to and usually don\'t care what the item is. Although if the item is too hard to get rid of, the fence won\'t buy it. Leaving the thief with...an item he doesn\'t want? Sure that leaves room for griefers, but what if after a certain period of time, news leaked out that you had something that was stolen? With something small like, say, an amethyst, it\'s no big deal. Probably about to be used in a tradeskill. But the sword of Uberyleetness is gonna stand out. And the item should stay in the database for a while as being stolen. The fence can\'t take an item that\'s worth more than a certain amount, because he can\'t sell it, because there aren\'t many buyers for rare items other than players. And if the rare items have a flag for stolen on them, certain authorities should find out and start asking questions. (aka possible GM intervention?)
That brings me to my second point.
#2. A rumor monger. That\'s right, this guy loves to get the dirt on everybody. Including PCs. So Mr. Thief comes in with that sword of Uberyleetness and wants to sell it to the fence. The rumor monger sees the fence turn the thief down, and rats him out for a fat tip. And possibly the gratitude/protection of the person the thief stole from.
Which brings me to number three.
#3. A code of laws that penalizes certain actions. This could include jail, possibly pillory time (getting stuck in a wooden[stone?] contraption while everyone sees who you are and knows what you did), or maybe more drastic measures. Of course when you have people carrying out those laws, you come to:
#4. A couple of corrupt people who are carrying out the law, but are also on the take. They periodically let important people out of jail, for reasons they probably better keep secret.
Still, to avoid all that time and effort being gruesomely stripped from him by a potential competitor (nobody said the rumormonger couldn\'t also be a thief), he\'s prolly not going to grab the biggest, most expensive item he can find. Probably the smallest, most expensive item he can find. It\'s a lot easier to sell something small and turn a profit than to hoard something big and hope for a buyer.
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I liked the way they did justice in Morrowind, I think it worked really well. If you perform a crime, you get a bounty on your head, and 1 of 3 things can happen.
1) You can turn yourself in and get a discount at th bounty.
2) Resist Arrest, probably get killed realy fast-like by the all mighty town guards.
3) Do hard time, and what makes this intereesting. If you can\'t pay your debt, you go to jail and your best skills deteriorate depending how much time you spent in prison, which depends on what crime you did. Sleeping in the streets or something is only about 5 gold. Murder goes at about 1000. Very Expensive. This would mean that thieves would probably have it really tough.
P.S. I like th stool pidgeon idea.
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Sounds interesting.
I missed Langwiz\'s post before I love all the ideas!
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how abotu the cities have building zones, so shops can only go one area, and houses another, and the people vote to expand it when they are overcrowded.
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The advantage of NPC shops is that they can be multitasked. There is a zone programed in the game to allow the player to open the shop screen to conduct business. That isn\'t possible with a single player to player interface.
Then there is the problem of programming this thing. Where are you going to get the product to peddle. There has to be a rather complex economic system programed into the game engine complete with warehouses bulk pricing manufacturing and alike. That may be to much detail to bother with. The game just giving the items away to shop owners to sell and make profit isn\'t good for game balance.
Then there is the problem of maintaining the shop. It\'s a full time job!
There may be a decent plan B . Have a flee market. You show up and sell what you have. You can rent out a tent and when you are don you can store the stuff in a storage unit for a fee. You can move to a deferent city in a caravan.
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Why couldn\'t you hire npcs for a salery? You could make/sell the stuff at first like a small buissness and eventually buy more people to sell and a bunch to make the actuall product. In theory, you could make a monopoly.
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Good question!
You can do what ever you like. But some pore sot has to program it in. The question isn\'t if its posable, but if it is feasible to program \"Sim economy\" into a fantasy role playing game. If the programing resources are as tight, as I hear, then expect it later. Like way later. So for the time being we want to try for something easy like a player to player transaction. Money for goods.
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Well, about the player made items against shop items, i kinda liked how they do it daoc, u could go to a shop and buy items, and theyd be ok, shop items would have a quality of 89. Player crafted items had higher qualities, therefore last longer and dont deteroriate as fast, and were more powerful because they were made better, so people sought out to buy those, and decent crafters could make money that way.
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If I could just set up a pavillion for people to shop in, I would bee happy.
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I\'d personally love \"Sim Economy\"... for one thing, it\'d make many issues deal with themselves, and for another it\'d add a whole new level of realism. Shop owners could set up inventory lists and say \"Buy n units of item x from this person for this price every week,\" and then that person would have a guarunteed sale of it, if they could make it... or they could go around hunting down bargins each week. The latter type of business owner would make more money, probably, but may be less fun to play for most people. Most serious business owners would probably have some sort of mix of the two. Then, on top of that, you\'d have to pay NPC wages and upkeep on the building (and possibly a lease, depending) and all in all it\'d take a bit to keep a business running. That way, they wouldn\'t be scattered far and wide, because they\'d lose money, and there would be (moderately) interesting things for business owners to do to improve their business. Perhaps you should also be able to open something more like a pawn shop, where people come with whatever, and you set a price and buy it from them and then sell that item. You\'d more likely find more interesting items at that type of shop, but you\'d go to the others for more standard items.
In any case, the proprietor of a store would also be able to talk to customers whenever they are there, which the more serious roleplayers would find interesting, particularly if the store was moderately busy.
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Originally posted by Relentless
What is the point of a theif character that can\'t steal?
Well, in the original Final Fantasy... oh, wait, that character WAS pretty worthless :P (\"Look at me, I can run away a little faster!\")
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A sim economy makes perfect sense, I mean, this is a role-playing-game, and economics should play just a big a role. You can saterat the market with gold from battle, just to make more money from silver. Investing. Something that isn\'t done in many RPG\'s. As for thieves, I think if you had a GOOD thief it could make the game interesting, but it takes one soo long to be mediocre, it\'s not really worth the effort.
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Ok, you people are getting a little to wanting, If you want this stuff go try to program yourself, You can\'t expect this crap any time soon, It is to complex, All anyone says is \"I want Player owned Shops\" but they dont think about how they would have to work and buy and stuff, and also about how the programmers would have to program this for a year and forget all the other stuff in game.
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Thanks Link! You are exactly right!
This is why Link doesn\'t get banned, you people. :-)
On the other hand, Link, this IS the \"Wish List\" forum here...
\"Hmm, I wish I had a solid gold toilet seat to sit on too.\"
Some of the wishes on this forum will be granted right around the time mine is too. :-)
- Vengeance
part time Moderator
full time PS programmer
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When I hire the programmers to build my mansion, And have all gold toilet seats, I will put in a good word for you.
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Expressing ideas is too wanting? I\'ll make a note of that.
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Deleted
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It is Aelya\'s castle and she invited me personally. She also informed me that you do not belong here. You are not a part of The Dark Empire guild and it is you who does not belong.
You can shout,rant,spam and play all the hypocritical games you want Link. It doesn\'t make you right. I have mostly chosen to ignore your posts because the large majority of them are nothing but negative. Not even funny, you demand banishment of random people , break the forum rules and get away with it.
You insult newbies like its a sport. I am sure many smart people with honest interest in the game have been drivin away becuase they made one mistake and you took it as your personal mission to point it out as crassly as possible.
You make a reasonable post expressing an opinion and it is vaunted and praised. Boggles my mind. But have at it Link, I tried to reason with you before only to discover that you are not a reasonable person.
I\'m sick of it and I am not the only one but apparently that doesn\'t matter. Maybe the forum rules should be declared null and void because then the mockery of the rules would be nonexistant.
Obviously your statement that the devs are your friends holds more than a grain of truth.
So I may have to have to suffer with you in these forums, I can not even use the ignore function as you have been on my list since a very short time after I registerd and I can still see your posts. But I do not have to suffer with you in Princess Aeyla\'s castle, you are not welcome there and you are king of nothing.
Get out.
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Deleted
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Man i\'m late!
I wish i would have read this befor all the good stuff was deleted! lol,
dang!
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I did not see Link\'s post\'s before they were deleted, but I back up Fiere\'s comments 100%.
I have seen many potential, genuine Planeshift fans turned away from the game, because of Links abuse on IRC. They make one little mistake, then take it personally when Link flames them and tells them to leave.
I am lucky that I got to know other people in PS before I got to know Link.
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lol, funny....is diablo still around anymore? :P
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Ah I love this. Leave it to Link to turn a neutral wish list thread into content that must be deleted.
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I should point out that Link deleted his own posts here and elsewhere. When I delete them, the posts disappear completely.
On the subject of Link \"being my friend\", I can certainly say that nothing is further from the truth. I don\'t know him at all. However, he does often say what I am thinking when he replies to posts which are not in the right forums and not indicative of a person having READ a single thing on these forums. Those people doing that are simply not following good nettiquette and should expect to be flamed by someone, Link or otherwise.
-Vengeance
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Me and Venge were never friends.. he simply tolerated my posts.
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Don\'t give up!
Sure, there are a few folks who think your idea is cracked. Heck, I think it\'s ridiculous. But you must see something I don\'t. Prove me wrong!
So, here are some cursory groundrules. Please modify them to suit your style or reject them outright.
1. Start a new thread on it. Don\'t take any negative feedback from me, Link, the Moderator, or any other person who doesn\'t like the idea in general. Get a leader and see if you can get the posts deleted that don\'t comply with the rules of your thread. If you really take off try to get a new forum.
2. You are on your own. This is not much of a problem since most groups are. PlaneShift, as a group, is on its own. You need to be self-sufficient. Get programmers, economists, and other skilled people together and organize them.
3. Keep the passion that I have been reading in this thread alive.
4. Make sure your work passes the straight face test. Don\'t make the system ridiculously complex. If it doesn\'t fit in with the standard RPG economic system it probably won\'t be accepted.
5. Keep your focus. I have seen one project die after another. Source Forage has plenty of them. If the passion I have seen here is for real then focus on the project and it will work.
Look folks, this thread is essentially dead, however, read through it again and see if you really want this. Start something fresh and make it happen.
P.S. Rule #2 is the important one.
As a side note, take the word \"Sim\" out. The fine moderator has a document that shows it\'s a prudent move.
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yea, thats great and all but i have to disagree with this:
Originally posted by Snodgrass
1. Start a new thread on it. Don\'t take any negative feedback from me, Link, the Moderator, or any other person who doesn\'t like the idea in general. Get a leader and see if you can get the posts deleted that don\'t comply with the rules of your thread. If you really take off try to get a new forum.
people need negative feedback, especially if their idea is bad....even if their idea is a good one, it might need to be fixed up some
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You are absolutely right Klern. I should have made the distinction between constructive criticism and detructive criticism. However, I didn\'t want to make this post into a big whopping one. There are all kinds of places for improvement. However, after that post I kind of figure it\'s not my job.
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Snodgrass, I have to say I think you are a very welcome addition to this board :)
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Here\'s an idea:
Instead of all this Pk\'ing and killing and so on....
if a Thief steals, and gets caught, there should be a Town Jail, where your jailed for lets say... 5 hours to a day, then when you are released you cant enter a shop for an hour or so... i dont know, thats just an idea
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To NapalmDeath
I have searched around the forum a bit. I haven\'t found any discussion of a legal system at all. That doesn\'t mean it\'s not in there. It is a lot to read.
You might want to start a new thread and title it something like what kind of legal system are we going to have and offer some suggestions. It would be interesting to see where it goes.
Have a wonderful day.
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NPC GUARDS THE ANSWER TO ALL PROBLEMS ;)
We just need guards in the town, if someone is murdered/stolen from, you call out guards and they come and kill him *or it could be automatic. depending if these guys can program it all and stuff!