PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Krey on August 28, 2005, 05:08:06 pm
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I \'ve been trying to create a religious guild lately, the Hand of Talad (see link in sig [/end shameless advertizing]) but in doing so I noticed a disturbing lack of religion around Hydlaa. I have only found very few believers of both Talad as Laanx compared to the atheists out there.Now I \'m not sure if there really are that few religious people or most simply didn\'t want to join a religious guild.
So seperated from my guildmaking efforts I am curious how bad it really is with religion in Yliakum and I was hoping to get some responce from players with their preferred religious choice: Talad, Laanx, the Black Flame or Atheist?
I myself believe in Talad *duh*
P.S.: If any mod feels like making a poll out of this thread with the choices mentioned above that would be great :D
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There doesn\'t seem to be much information concerning religion available for the general populace. We have all read the history of Yliakum, but that doesn\'t tell me *why* I should follow any particular god. Perhaps we need a bit of evangelism in PS (only in RP terms , PLEASE!).
I, for one, was raised in a community that worshipped Laanx, so I did the same because of tradition, not for any reasons of my own. When I set out on my own, I needed to depend on my own wits and skills to survive. Laanx, or any other god, seemed quite a bit less relevant when I was dodging gobblers in the sewers of Hydlaa than back when I was tucked in my soft, warm bed at home.
I wouldn\'t consider myself an atheist; obviously Laanx and Talad exist (the Black Flame, I\'m less sure of). But I have no reason to devote myself to any one deity at this point. If you would like to convince me otherwise, drop by Kada-El\'s some time and I\'ll buy the first round.
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there actually was a guy who was trying a religion thing, but he was making my /mute itch...
with all his preeching about his god i got a bit annoyed after a while
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Laanx is the way! Shall those who belive in you be saved!
I\'m a Laanx follower, but I havent payed much attention to him/her (I\'m still not sure if it\'s a male or a female, I\'ll have to read the PS stiry once more I think) and I fell terrible because of it, have mercy of my poor soul!! I beg you! Please!!
I have an idea why gods havent much attention, thats because they havent show us their mighty power yet! If Laanx or Talad made iron fall from the sky to punish \"those who dont belive\" everybody would become more interested on Them!
you atheist scum... make me sick ( :D j/k )
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Originally posted by Ashamn
I\'m a Laanx follower, but I havent payed much attention to him/her (I\'m still not sure if it\'s a male or a female, I\'ll have to read the PS stiry once more I think) and I fell terrible because of it, have mercy of my poor soul!! I beg you! Please!!
Sounds like a good, healthy dose of \"Laanx Guilt\" to me.
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the way i see it, i dont need any rules to tell me how to behave or what to do... so i play it my way, no religion.
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
There doesn\'t seem to be much information concerning religion available for the general populace. We have all read the history of Yliakum, but that doesn\'t tell me *why* I should follow any particular god. Perhaps we need a bit of evangelism in PS (only in RP terms , PLEASE!).
I, for one, was raised in a community that worshipped Laanx, so I did the same because of tradition, not for any reasons of my own. When I set out on my own, I needed to depend on my own wits and skills to survive. Laanx, or any other god, seemed quite a bit less relevant when I was dodging gobblers in the sewers of Hydlaa than back when I was tucked in my soft, warm bed at home.
I wouldn\'t consider myself an atheist; obviously Laanx and Talad exist (the Black Flame, I\'m less sure of). But I have no reason to devote myself to any one deity at this point. If you would like to convince me otherwise, drop by Kada-El\'s some time and I\'ll buy the first round.
Well that was actually my intent with creating the guild, bringing religion more into the spotlight. I was even hoping to start up a clergy with priests, missionaries, holy writings and such.
According to the history Laanx already has it\'s Book of Names so hopefully that will become available in Jayose\'s library some time in the future. Aside from that I think it would actually be nice for the players to build up religion but apparently we \'re in a bit of a paradox. Since religion isn\'t really well developed almost nobody is interested in it. Of course there are also people who seem to detest religion of all sorts.
Originally posted by Ashamn
I have an idea why gods havent much attention, thats because they havent show us their mighty power yet! If Laanx or Talad made iron fall from the sky to punish \"those who dont belive\" everybody would become more interested on Them!
It would indeed be interesting if the Gods interfered with our lives from time to time but I wouldn\'t let them smite all disbelievers. Just show their powers in order to win over more followers. Let the powerstruggle of the gods begin!
*nudges Talad* Can always reward your loyal servant with godly powers :P
Seriously, I think religion is an area we could easily expand on in the game even without the help of the devs. Though I hope we get to enter Talad\'s temple soon.
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I\'d love to see it used in the game more, since the backstory makes it out to be a very important aspect of the game\'s setting.
I\'m up in the air about how I\'d RP it though, since I\'m not 100% sure on my character\'s religious stance yet. I may deviate from my real beliefs and make her a follower of one or the other, just to try something new.
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Originally posted by Drey
the way i see it, i dont need any rules to tell me how to behave or what to do... so i play it my way, no religion.
You.. you.. !! piece of.. atheist.. SCUM!!!
*stops to catch his breath*
I cannot belive what I\'m earing!! Laanx will punish you!!
muahahahahaha
^^
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Well, the book of names is not going into the library! It\'s not an ordinary book, is a sacred gift, written by Laanx himself!
Also, it is there, in the temple room. The floating book is the book of names, it says so on the cover. :)
I think that is the list of banned names, actually, and the arcane language is MySQL. :P
Anyway, indeed religion has almost no followers, not even respect!
Just the other day, there was a guild war in the temple of Laanx! Seriously, if that isn\'t bad RP, then what is?
Also, the temple is abused for all other sorts of mundane things. Not only is it the entrance to the mines and PL dungeon, it is also used to hang out. The latter may, however, be due to the utter lack of other places. You can\'t RP a semi-secret ritual in the tavern.
To me, it is clear that neither Laanx nor Talad will smite nonbelievers, for the simple fact that they never did in the entire history. Laanx may have killed a few thousand Klyros initially, but that\'s about it. Also, the history states that they impressed by their deeds or the deeds of their followers. Temples, mainly.
I am very unsure about the Black Flame, though. It is supposed to rule Pradesha, and arrived there after Laanx left. Therefore, the Yliaki cannot actually know of / believe in it.
The ones most prone to worshipping Laanx would, traditionlly, be the Xacha, as they actually owe him in a way. Naturally, the Lemurs would also qualify. Kran would of course be more of Talad worshippers.
Probably the lack of religion is a result of the lack of benefits that it would generate. Holy weapons and this sort of thing. There is no god-given power, not even in the history.
It says that Talad created the glyphs, but then again, the crystal way would be the raw power of the crystal, controlled directly, which is not the case. Also, magic is available to all, in principle. Thusly, religion would be a purely RP decision with the problem of a lack of immediately usable information. Being that, it obviously needs to share the already sparse popupation of RPers with the atheists. Therefore you will obviously find that all non-RPers are atheists out of convenience or ignorance / lack of care, and RPers...
Maybe the entire concept of RP religion is suffering from the RL mindset that is shifting away from the established religions. Even though the gods most definitely do exist in Yliakum, they suffer from the problem that the act of actually worshipping them is made incredibly hard by the fact that there are so many well known arguments IRL that easily counter them. What remains is not faith but a sort of deal:
I worship you and you grant me something in return. Since, however, it is very very hard to actually RP the granting of something in return, because that means taking over control of a diety, which, being part of the setting, is non player controllable, the options here are quite limited. There was / is one guild that said \"we maintained balance between the gods / their followers, and then the gods banded together to smite us\". Obviously, this is not possible. Even minor miracles aren\'t easily possible because the overall intent of the gods isn\'t really clear, i.e., you cannot easily estimate what they would do in any given situation, or if they would actually bother, given only a few individuals involved. The gods have always acted on a grand scale, which is not feasible for RP, and no examples exist for the RPable personal scope. Making things up would risk later conflicting with the setting once it is expanded, thereby possibly invalidating the entire RP. Obviously, that would be a catastrophe in the RP sense, which probably is why almost all RPers shun it.
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*nods*
All good points.
Of course the Book of Names itself wouldn\'t be in the library but a few copies of it perhaps.
With my character I own two fire swords that do serious damage. I actually recieved them from a friendly player that pitied my needing many hits to kill things. In my story I consider them to be a(n indirect) gift from Talad himself though and I only use them in certain occasions. Sure they aren\'t holy weapons but I work with what I have.
As for your last argument ... I live and rp in the present, based on the past of course but not in fear of the future. I find that if we should be careful with what we say now because it might prove to be different from what will be we \'ll miss out a whole lot of rping. The way I see it the devs give us the tools. It is our job to create the story and the world. Because for all we know we could be giving them ideas for what the future holds .. but at the same time, like you said, we could be wrong. It doesn\'t matter to me though, I don\'t tread on eggshells because of an uncertain future. I make my own future and if it is taken from me I will make a new one starting from that point.
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Actually, the guild you were refering to wasn\'t keeping the balance between the gods, but good and evil (They may be sources of good/evil but they arn\'t GOOD or EVIL, that is based purely on a personal level by actions.) The history is that everyone got pissed at us and beat the snot out of us because we stopped either side from making a strategic victory. Of course non of this is in the history, but who cares ;).
(my char is black flame, but I am unsure what that means.)
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Originally posted by Krey
Because for all we know we could be giving them ideas for what the future holds .. but at the same time, like you said, we could be wrong. It doesn\'t matter to me though, I don\'t tread on eggshells because of an uncertain future. I make my own future and if it is taken from me I will make a new one starting from that point.
Yet you should, at least to a minimum. Because if you don\'t you risk not only disrupting the setting, but also forcing things on others that cannot be justified. Yes, this will remove RP options from you, but it will ensure that others have the same set of options as you have. The swords as indirect gift from Talad doesn\'t strike me as bad, though, unless you\'d make Talad\'s main element fire, which is not justified.
I don\'t think it is our job to create the history of the world, at least not the past. What we can maybe create is the future by our present actions (thus I agree with you there), but we can not modify / make up the past.
@Arklari Rereler: I know perfectly well that neither Laanx nor Talad represent gods of evil or good, and I never said so. The example I used was indeed based on an old, preliminary version of said guilds history, and I don\'t even know if the guild I\'m referring to is actually yours. Sorry for making it sound like it was the status quo.
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i\'d say my character is agnostic. but, he isn\'t sure.
it isn\'t so much that he doesn\'t beleive in the gods. at some level he knows that they exsist. it is the only explanation for him, and why he behaves like he does. bound by the oath of a dead god (see a myth of gods and men).
i\'m really going to have to write up a fair bit on that religion. it needs to be fleshed out a bit.
the greater problem, with creating religions, is that may end up with a thousand subtlely different religions. but i guess anybody who really wants one will hopefully check to see if there is anything close to what they want. but then, it may end up like the guilds were before the guild wipe.
erm... what was the question again?
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Hmm, I have not commented on that point even though it was mentioned in this thread:
I am completely opposed to players making up their own gods / religions. This is exactly what I am referring to by \"modifying the setting\" and \"forcing things on others\". Making up a diety is even worse than acting with an existing one. Yes, the setting mentions (for Xacha)
From the History section
Some of them, circumvented extinction and went back to their ancient traditions
Still, this does not mean that one can just make up these ancient tradition, as they, obviously affect every Xacha. Even the presence of
From the History section
Other gods, older and more powerful than they,
does not allow that, because, obviously, these other gods would have to be official. Also, they obviously have no meaning within the confines of the PS world, never intervened and thus can\'t have followers. Of course, a char can preach for a god that only that char believes in and that doesn\'t really exist, so that is an option.
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Actually there is quite a lot of reference to religion in the game. Say hello to the NPCs they will normall say
\"Greetings, stranger, Talad\'s blessings upon you.\"
Ask them who talad is and they will give you a good paragraph of info. As you can tell, it is my hobby to harass the NPCs.
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But the point is religion in the game as of now is not important to the Role playing that occurs. Very few people includes it in the definition of their character and I myself put Atheist in on char select screen. It just does not seem important as of yet.
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
There doesn\'t seem to be much information concerning religion available for the general populace. We have all read the history of Yliakum, but that doesn\'t tell me *why* I should follow any particular god.
I think this is the main problem. I\'ve read the Yliakum History and know the whole story of the gods, but there\'s no mention of what either Laanx or Talad stand for. There\'s no philosophy for either religion, so what\'s the draw? The god\'s aren\'t coming down to strike us that I can see. If there was more of a belief system laid out for each religion, with canon, dogma, ceremonies (holidays), and some sort of \"payoff\" ( i.e. heaven, nirvana, etc) I think the religious setup in the game would be more believable, which may draw more people into it to RP. Right now I don\'t even know what to do with the religions in game, aside from pick a god with the flip of a coin.
Actually, how much of the Yliakum History would be known by the populance anyway? Did Talad tell them all of his past affairs when they arrived? No one actually would know what Laanx was thinking and doing alone all those years, right? All the followers of the Black Flame should still be back in Kadaikos, so why is it even an option?
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Originally posted by Kim
Actually, how much of the Yliakum History would be known by the populance anyway? Did Talad tell them all of his past affairs when they arrived? No one actually would know what Laanx was thinking and doing alone all those years, right? All the followers of the Black Flame should still be back in Kadaikos, so why is it even an option?
Well, there are many adventurers who have traveled all over Yliakum, on all seven levels, into the Stone Labyrinths, the caverns below the stalactite, and perhaps even to the surface. They would return telling all sorts of stories, myths and legends from all over the world.
Of course, we don\'t know what the literacy rate is. How would thse stories be passed from person to person, and more importantly, from generation to generation? Can most of the citizens read the books at Jayose\'s library? Does the average person go to school, or does learning take place in the home?
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
Well, there are many adventurers who have traveled all over Yliakum, on all seven levels, into the Stone Labyrinths, the caverns below the stalactite, and perhaps even to the surface. They would return telling all sorts of stories, myths and legends from all over the world.
I wonder if they found the huge dump of waste and dead bodies under the Yliakum stalactite yet.
Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
Of course, we don\'t know what the literacy rate is. How would thse stories be passed from person to person, and more importantly, from generation to generation? Can most of the citizens read the books at Jayose\'s library? Does the average person go to school, or does learning take place in the home?
I really think there should be a forum just to discuss these types of questions... culture, history, how the world works. It doesn\'t seem to fit in General Discussion (Mostly in game happenings discussed there) or Rolelaying.