PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bnm85 on September 04, 2005, 11:53:57 pm
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EDIT: ugh, that\'s comparison
I was just checking out various new upcoming MMORPGs at mmorpg.com and one of them really grabbed my attention. It\'s called \"The Chronicles of SpellBorn\". So, I started checking out its story and the world setting, as well as developer interviews, and found some similarities with PlaneShift, as it too tries to be very different from a traditional MMORPG. Reading the interviews made me think about the direction PlaneShift is going and if it really is all that original. I want you to check out this link with the interview for yourselves first:
http://www.spellborn.com/News/?id=42
A large quote of note from it:
\"?in order to create a world that would fit in with our unique vision of a fresh approach to the Fantasy MMORPG genre, I had to think hard on what that would mean for the setting we needed. It definitely couldn?t be the typical vanilla fantasy world people have become accustomed to in this genre: the one with elves, dwarves, unicorns and evil rings of power.
On the other hand, radical experiments with the Fantasy genre rarely work out. Substituting pointy eared humanoids with a weird name for Elves (thereby remaining what they obviously are), or freakish creations that no one warms to, wouldn?t be the answer.\" says Jesse. ?Ultimately I was inspired by something I read about fairy tales with happy endings: that they are just stories that haven?t been finished yet.\"
Where do you see PlaneShift stand if you apply this dev\'s views? Do you agree with his views at all and think he has a point there? Note what he says about the same races with different names or \"freakish creations\". Do you see any races in PS as such or not? I would like to hear some thoughts.
And please, don\'t let it turn into a spam (Drey, be nice! :P).
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I don\'t think there\'s much of a comparison to make there, at least nothing to profound.
Now, if you compare Planeshift to Daggerfall, then we can get talking! :-D
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All right, if you feel that way, that\'s fine. It\'s your opinion. :)
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Originally posted by Bnm85
\"?in order to create a world that would fit in with our unique vision of a fresh approach to the Fantasy MMORPG genre, I had to think hard on what that would mean for the setting we needed. It definitely couldn?t be the typical vanilla fantasy world people have become accustomed to in this genre: the one with elves, dwarves, unicorns and evil rings of power.
On the other hand, radical experiments with the Fantasy genre rarely work out. Substituting pointy eared humanoids with a weird name for Elves (thereby remaining what they obviously are), or freakish creations that no one warms to, wouldn?t be the answer.\" says Jesse. ?Ultimately I was inspired by something I read about fairy tales with happy endings: that they are just stories that haven?t been finished yet.\"
I agree to 100% with this quote. In fact, it is what I feel is why PS does have elves and dwarves and humans, and I have explained this with the same reasoning in the debates about PS not being unique and also about having more but less unique races because there are elves and dwarves and humans: you need to have some \"classics\" in order to offer something people can relate to easily. It is no coincidence that, traditionally, elves and dwarves share a great many properties with humans. Also, though to a lesser extent, similarities do exist with all PS races: they are, basically, humanoid, including to a great extent the main visual properties (humanoid face). This is for the exact same reasoning. In a way we are seeing maybe an \"evolution\" in the \"fantasy\" concept, in which, as a next stept, less humanoid races are being adapted. Maybe once this has gone mainstream, the mentioned \"freakish creations\" will be added as third step.
Total uniqueness cannot gather a substantial amount of followers. And, while the PS team does this not for the number of users, it would likely not manage to attract the required number of devs as well. So PS is a compromise between what would be truly unique (if such thing exists) and what is possible to wrap one\'s mind around as things currently stand.
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That\'s much better. More thoughts from others please. :)
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My opinion is that PlaneShift used to be unique when it was first conceived 10 or so years ago. But since Talad isn\'t prepared to make any changes whatsoever to his original vision, the promise of being \'completely unique\' should no longer be made.
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Two problems to the total unique thing
One is ofcourse though people want something different they just don\'t normally like it to different. Things like the midevilsetting are just so standard that going of to some kind of alternate techonological setting just doesn\'t go wel and people hardly ever like playing a race that has no huminoid characteristics. You do want to talk with people ingame and interact.
Two is that Planeshift is being finished pretty slowly. It\'s graphics are ofcourse outstanding for the free game it is but you can see if you look around that it is being overtaken by other games. It\'s originality looses as those games copy things that people like in PS.
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True origionality is all but dead - it comes about rarely these days. Einstein was origional when he conceived a new idea to the univers - that there was no backdrop. None at all - nothingness existed, and our universe was space/time which were inseperable. Isiaac Newton was origional when he single handedly invented calculus. There are others, but true origionality is rare, based on or built on things already passed. Its hard to wrap ones mind around things we\'ve never expirenced, around a completely new idea. Imagine a creature living in space feeding on nebula gasses, whose makeup was very much like a nebula itself. Imagine that its time frame of refernce was slowed down - like one second to him/her/it/thing took 1,000,000,000 years to us. We couldn\'t ever even know its alive because it doesn\'t fit into our worldview and life defination, and because we lack observance capicity. We couldn\'t hear a record played at 1 rpm per thousand years either, but that doesn\'t mean the record isn\'t playing. Hjmans lack the intellectual capicity to be truely imaginitive, and the capicity to see things beyone our own narrow perspectives. Origionality is dead. Or rather, it is dead until we evolve to be much smarter, and then perhaps a birth of origionality can occur.
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the website you linked looks reaaaaaaally nice and the pics look tasty.
i wont discuss originality.
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Great responses so far. Keep\'em coming!
And Havox, that\'s fine. And yes, it does look good. :)
EDIT: Hmm, I figured since I started the topic, I should contribute some more to it. So, here\'s another quote from the same site that I found interesting and should be applied to PlaneShift:
\"Of course we are not re-inventing the wheel entirely and many things found will be familiar, but we do approach this so that even the familiar has a fresh feel to it. It is our goal to trigger the imagination of players, rather than just their senses\"
That makes a great point that complete originality isn\'t always possible but a fresh feel on familiar is very possible and should be strived for.
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I think there\'s a balance needed for the average player in games such of these. Too cliche becomes boring and too original can leave nothing familiar for him to mentally hold on to.
I haven\'t read everything on this site, which will limit my thoughts, but what seems freshest is not its graphics or races, but story. I get the feeling of an enormously developed history and setting for this game. With this much information given to the player, it\'s very easy to get caught up and create characters since you have so much to work with. With the roots set down already for story, there\'s something for you to build upon.
In PS most of the history involves Talad, Laanx and religion, but there\'s very little involvement of these themes in game. From what I read, most players are not even interested in the religions. I get the feeling it\'s suppossed to be important, but then there\'s no effect on me in game. Shouldn\'t it effect my every day life if our history focuses on it?
If that\'s not the most important theme driving the game, then we need more backstory on what does. What\'s the culture, race relations, government, arts, and laws? What\'s currently going on in this world and why? It\'s left up to players to create this, but everyone has their own ideas and as a result there is no common underlying structure to this world. There is no story we can all hold on to and use as our starting point. Our player freedom is good, but I think there needs to be a societal base to give us direction.
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I agree with Kim and i will say more, explaining few matters from my point of viev.
The PS history is indeed very much based on religion, but fact is there are almost no player characters who would worship Laanx or Talad. It is because from the history we know who they are. They do the same mistakes as we, but they are even worse in their actions than many of us. They are like small children with too much power. Who wan\'t to worship gods like these? Even if I would ignore all the facts, one person would tell me about that and both my faith and will to worship eighter Laanx or Taland would break into pieces.
Gods should be examle for their worshippers. Otherwise why to worship?
Look at Aliathi or Zelphir (correct me if it isn\'t god invented by Zelphirien guild) We don\'t know anything bad about them, all they do is good. If one will decide to worhip one of them then he can keep thinking he is doing somethink great, give some sense to their lives.
What about evil characters? Any gods wich they would want to worship?
The setting is really nice in my opinion, somethink where I don\'t see holes which breaks the imagination of this world.
It is well thought and things are logically connected.
But I don\'t see the same after i join PS ingame. I know PS is being tested and developed, but there are loads of things which are in other MMORPGs and which lack of logical connection with the rest. I don\'t even try to think a story from this what are doing everybody, or some adventure. It is because i would have to change so many things and add loads of events which didn\'t happen, to keep logic and realism.
The effect is the roleplayers think of stories which are far different from the real PS reality. There is no pointin doing all this what game provide, because after all, to keep it logical, we have to talk about somethink much different from this what we do.
I can\'t be really sure, but from this what i see, situation looks like this:
People want to have fun above all other things. If the realism or logic of world will suffer, that is ok, because it isn\'t number one priority.
I have been talking with person who clamed definition of roleplaying is having fun together. If someone is trying trick somebody else, steal his property thus decreasing that person fun, then it isn\'t roleplaying.
People treat PS as game, not world where life can be hard, challanging and not always funny.
How many of you think this way?
Update after update, i have a feeling that it is getting worse and worse. No logic, no realism The complaining about KS, people who don\'t know what is roleplaying and threatening with GM, kick, ban.
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
I have been talking with person who clamed definition of roleplaying is having fun together. If someone is trying trick somebody else, steal his property thus decreasing that person fun, then it isn\'t roleplaying.
People treat PS as game, not world where life can be hard, challanging and not always funny.
How many of you think this way?
Update after update, i have a feeling that it is getting worse and worse. No logic, no realism The complaining about KS, people who don\'t know what is roleplaying and threatening with GM, kick, ban.
The last paragraph didn\'t make sense gramatically so I\'m not sure exactly what you\'re trying to say. I do agree however that the idea people have of roleplaying here is weird. There\'s this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\", but interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on. A lot of people here have lost their understanding of that.
Now, maybe I\'m biased. I haven\'t played many computer-based RPGs. A lot of the old stuff which was all text, a lot of the 386 and commodore stuff where you go around clicking on everything, and of course Daggerfall which was very involved - political intrigue, a variety of magics, reputations with various social elements, a large bestiary, and a huge huge map. A main quest, infinite small ones, and complete freedom to do and go as you like. Dungeon maps were randomly generated. You could rob stores and murder people. Or you could fight evil and deffend the helpless. The big problem? It wasn\'t multiplayer.
That\'s why Planeshift interests me so much. I\'ve played a lot of the \"dice chucker\" games, basically variations of AD&D in different settings - some medival, some futuristic, some set in the 1920\'s, etc etc. But you\'re playing with real people who are adopting personalities and histories and are acting based on that. Imagination and creativity was the most important part, and yes - bad things happen. You get raided, mugged, knocked out, trapped, even killed. But it wasn\'t invasive, it was fun. It was a part of the game, it was a part of the role-playing experience.
Maybe that\'s why I feel the way I do. I\'ve spent too much time playing games and I\'ve spent too little time chatting on gaia.
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
The PS history is indeed very much based on religion, but fact is there are almost no player characters who would worship Laanx or Talad. It is because from the history we know who they are. They do the same mistakes as we, but they are even worse in their actions than many of us. They are like small children with too much power. Who wan\'t to worship gods like these? Gods should be examle for their worshippers. Otherwise why to worship?
Talad and Laanx are fallible, but I have no real problem with that. Many gods have human qualities and make mistakes, just look at the Greek or Roman dieties to start. I just feel if they are such a big part of PS\'s history, they should have more prominance in the current sphere of the Yliakum society. Worshippers follow for many different reasons, be it to live a good life, out of fear, or the promise of special benefits for believers.
Originally posted by zanzibar
There\'s this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\", but interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on.
Imagination and creativity was the most important part, and yes - bad things happen. You get raided, mugged, knocked out, trapped, even killed. But it wasn\'t invasive, it was fun. It was a part of the game, it was a part of the role-playing experience.
I have to agree with this point. There\'s an expectation that nothing bad should happen in this world, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Sure it\'s a game, but some semblance to life gives it a sense of realism and challenge.
We\'re RPing a medieval sword and sorcery world. There\'s going to be thieves, con artists, monsters and blood thirsty toughs. Stuff to fear, yet struggle against. We\'ve got twelve different races, three competing religions, plus guilds and I\'m supposed to believe everyone\'s all going to get along?
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Originally posted by Kim
Talad and Laanx are fallible, but I have no real problem with that. Many gods have human qualities and make mistakes, just look at the Greek or Roman dieties to start. I just feel if they are such a big part of PS\'s history, they should have more prominance in the current sphere of the Yliakum society. Worshippers follow for many different reasons, be it to live a good life, out of fear, or the promise of special benefits for believers.
Exactly. These gods were very much like humans, except they were comparatively powerful. And it was this power that gave thereason to worship them, nothing else. The worshipper hoped to be rewarded by the god for the worshipping being done. Also, the gods used to represent a certain set of priorities or desires, to which humans would relate in their choice of which god to give most worshipping.
Therefore, the main problem I see is that, as has been said on another thread already, noone really knows what each god actually represents. Laanx could be viewed as god of chaos and rigidness. Talad would be more flexible and more inclined towards order. However, this alone doesn\'t suffice to build a working religion from.
Originally posted by Kim
Originally posted by zanzibar
There\'s this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\", but interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on.
Imagination and creativity was the most important part, and yes - bad things happen. You get raided, mugged, knocked out, trapped, even killed. But it wasn\'t invasive, it was fun. It was a part of the game, it was a part of the role-playing experience.
I have to agree with this point. There\'s an expectation that nothing bad should happen in this world, which makes absolutely no sense to me. Sure it\'s a game, but some semblance to life gives it a sense of realism and challenge.
We\'re RPing a medieval sword and sorcery world. There\'s going to be thieves, con artists, monsters and blood thirsty toughs. Stuff to fear, yet struggle against. We\'ve got twelve different races, three competing religions, plus guilds and I\'m supposed to believe everyone\'s all going to get along?
Absolutely there will be evil. However, the major difference is that in any game it usually is controlled so that it never gets out of hand. Challenge / realism or not, there is reason why the term \"griefing\" came into existance. I never said everyone gets along with everyone else. The difference is to what extent troublemakers can be allowed to roam freely. This is why a mutual agreement of some sort must be reached, since otherwise there would be no way to differentiate between RP and OOC jerk-ness. And no, the latter must never be allowed. Duelling newbies surely is the latter, and it\'s by far out-occuring RP.
Whiule uncontrolled jerkness would surely be realistic, games can only be realistic to a certain extent until they cease being games.
RP involves being responsible in whatever you do to others, and there is no way of assuring this except mutual agreement. Zanzibar, you say that \"interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on.\" and make it seem as if this would conflict with \"this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\"\". However, actually it is an intrinsic part of it! Indeed without hinderances, etc. there would be very few RP opportunity. The major difference is what is acceptable and what is not. You want a \"free for all\" environment, where whatever you do can be claimed to be RP and thus acceptable. This concept cannot work, however. If it did, there would be no rules in any MMORPG. It is fun for those who powerlevel and then deal the \"hinderances\" to other, less experienced players.
The only way to do it right is to, in all respects, never go above what the other player can deal with while still enjoying the game. And the only way to do so is mutual agreement. It is absolutely possible to RP being surprised while you have agreed upon the ambush OOC-ly. It is one of the most important abilities of any RPer to be able to clearly differentiate IC and OOC. However, for this to work, it is necessary that one can trust the other player in that it is really is RP only and not OOC greed, carelessness or similar despisable things.
This self-moderation is in PnP RPGs done by the GM, and the players know they can trust / rely on the GM. In an MMORPG, this GM role must be assumed by each player, and thus they need to be trustworthy as well. And if I am not completely sure that I can trust another player to be responsible and moderated, I am not going to interact with that player. This is where open PvP, thieving, etc. systems fail completely, and why they are causeing so much grief: becuase untrustworthy players can force themselves upon others, thereby disrupting the RP not by the doing of evil or good, but by being irresponsible.
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It is true that the current \"gods\" leave a lot to be desired and are very unattractive to worship. I have been choosing the \"Atheist\" option so far but I\'ve also been thinking about the available options in the meantime. If you think about it, just because you choose a certain religion, does not mean that you never defy that god or question them.
For example, take the \"Conan\" movies. Conan\'s god was Crom. But yet he swore at him, challenged him, and defied him. If we were to believe that Crom really did exist for Conan, it did seem to help him in the end.
Another example is the animated series called \"Spawn\". Willingly or unwillingly he chose the devil\'s \"blessing\", so he could see his wife once more and maybe avenge his murder. What gave him powers is anything but good. However, he used the powers he had for good.
Yet another example is \"Babylon 5\" show. While not really \"gods\", they had the ancient races of Vorlons on one side, and Shadows on the other. Those races stayed behind instead of moving onto another realm, to watch over the younger races, including humans. At first glance, Vorlons were the \"good\" guys and stood for order, while Shadows were the \"bad\" guys and stood for chaos. However, that quickly changed as soon as we found out more about Vorlons and the \"evil\" Kosh came onboard to replace the \"good\" one (or even earlier from an episode with \"Sebastian\" ). Order or not, they had their own agenda, and were anything but good and kind in their ways.
We already know from several mentions from the mods and devs on these forums that Talad will not make any drastic changes to the history, no matter what. Heck, he probably won\'t make any changes at all, even minor (which isn\'t necessarily a wise thing to do). So, if we\'re \"stuck\" with the three religion choices of Laanx, Talad, and Black Flame, which will possibly play an important role and give big bonuses in your character development, we might as well find a way to deal with them somehow. We can pick one just for benefits but we can still RP our defiance towards them. That defiance can be furthered by eventually mastering all magical ways, which would almost imply a worship/defiance of all three \"gods\". And we know that they don\'t all necessarily like each other.
Besides, one could also RP a character that as a child went with a certain religion because his parents did too. But started questioning it as he was growing up. That means he doesn\'t blindly worship their \"god\" but still gets some benefits. I know it\'s a stretch, and I still wish that cetain changes can be made to history, or at least some new \"gods\" added. The biggest problem with the current gods, IMO, is not that there aren\'t any \"good\" gods to worship (I\'d gladly RP an evil god worshipping character for fun) but that they are childish, greedy and stupid. The \"stupid\" part makes it hard to pick a \"god\" to worship.
As for free PvP, I believe there should be special areas or \"zones\" where an agreement is not required to attack someone. However, they should be clearly labeled with various warning signs (ie actual road signs), NPCs that pop up on the way and warn you that you can be attacked by anyone and so on. Such zones shouldn\'t just be dry template areas but fit in with the setting and the story. Perhaps it can be \"marshes\" or \"woods\" with a specific preceeding name. The areas shouldn\'t be completely devoid of NPC or mob life either. Castles, fortresses, towers, and such could be present. Reward items from unique mobs or quests should be valuable but NOT crucial to the game and one\'s development. That way, if someone wants to avoid such areas completely, they can, without worrying that they\'ll be gimping their characters too much.
Just IMO. :)
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AFAICS there is no need to change the history of PS. Not in the way of altering what happened. It just needs more fleshing out, addition of details, especially of the sort that doesn\'t concern the gods only, but the gods\' relations to their worshippers.
Edit: these areas would be a form of mutual agreement. I\'m not sure if they would be the best possible option (since you would lose out on some sights), but they would be viable.
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Originally posted by Bnm85
We already know from several mentions from the mods and devs on these forums that Talad will not make any drastic changes to the history, no matter what.
No need to change them IMO, just add on to the existing framework as Seytra has said. Also think, how do the followers of each religion react towards one another? Is everyone accepted for their beliefs? Are there religious wars? Stuff like that. I believe there is a thread about this.
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Hmm, come to think of it, because this game lacks levels for players, it\'s impossible to limit PvP to level ranges. So, a certain \"veteran\" PvP\'er with maxed out stats could be camping such zones to gank people. Which means, PvP needs to be based not on gear or stats at all but purely on player skill. A fairly low stat player should be able to kill a maxed out stat \"veteran\" PvP\'er. A critical blow of some sort perhaps, an added randomness. Or perhaps stats ranges can somehow be implemented? That game \"The Chronicles of SpellBorn\", I mentioned, claims its PvP will not be based much on stats or gear but mostly a player skill. So, I\'d be curious to see how it\'s implemented. Of course, stats and gear will still matter in PvM and for looks.
As for sightseeing, that\'s what makes such areas attractive. You can\'t complain about dying there because you know exactly what you\'re getting into. You know the area is not crucial and there\'s plenty of sightseeing in normal areas. But the curiosity might get the best of you, and you may go there anyway. :)
No need to change them IMO, just add on to the existing framework as Seytra has said. Also think, how do the followers of each religion react towards one another? Is everyone accepted for their beliefs? Are there religious wars? Stuff like that. I believe there is a thread about this.
That is if he\'s willing to \"add\" anything to it at all. And I\'m not sure he does. But I\'d be glad if he did.
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Seytra, I\'m not sure if open PvP is the answer, but wouldn\'t it have interesting effects? That way, if someone murdered someone in the plaza, everyone could come in to take the murderer out! If someone was a theif, there might be a brief trial, and then the theif could be taken out! People could even be banished from particular cities if it came down to it. Open war would be a risk, but it wouldn\'t be in anyone\'s best interest. And of course, the GMs.... er, I mean the demi-gods among us would be in a position to strike death down upon anyone who was posing a serious threat. We could have police guilds (remember that hydlaa police guy? Didn\'t do much, did he), and the defenders and protectors would have new opportunities to role play the descriptions they made for themselves.
I\'m not saying it\'s the right way to do things, but it does have interesting consequences. Maybe it would be best to have certain areas, like the Hydlaa city maps and the Sewers, free of open PvP. No open PvP there. However, in areas where more experienced players are likely to be and where new players will NOT be unless they decide to go there, in those areas we might consider open PvP. That way, you start off new, and then you \"graduate\" into the other areas which are more dangerous.
I\'m just brainstorming here, of course.
Originally posted by Bnm85
For example, take the \"Conan\" movies.
[clip]
Another example is the animated series called \"Spawn\".
Both were comic books before they were movies.... I\'ve read the original conan series starting with #1, it\'s a good read. :-D
Originally posted by Bnm85
Yet another example is \"Babylon 5\" show. While not really \"gods\", they had the ancient races of Vorlons on one side, and Shadows on the other. Those races stayed behind instead of moving onto another realm, to watch over the younger races, including humans. At first glance, Vorlons were the \"good\" guys and stood for order, while Shadows were the \"bad\" guys and stood for chaos. However, that quickly changed as soon as we found out more about Vorlons and the \"evil\" Kosh came onboard to replace the \"good\" one (or even earlier from an episode with \"Sebastian\" ). Order or not, they had their own agenda, and were anything but good and kind in their ways.
The Greek gods are another good example.
Originally posted by Bnm85
As for free PvP, I believe there should be special areas or \"zones\" where an agreement is not required to attack someone. However, they should be clearly labeled with various warning signs (ie actual road signs), NPCs that pop up on the way and warn you that you can be attacked by anyone and so on. Such zones shouldn\'t just be dry template areas but fit in with the setting and the story. Perhaps it can be \"marshes\" or \"woods\" with a specific preceeding name. The areas shouldn\'t be completely devoid of NPC or mob life either. Castles, fortresses, towers, and such could be present. Reward items from unique mobs or quests should be valuable but NOT crucial to the game and one\'s development. That way, if someone wants to avoid such areas completely, they can, without worrying that they\'ll be gimping their characters too much.
Just IMO. :)
I think that it would be interesting if a crucial or extremely useful item WAS exclusively available in a \"danger zone\". You know the guilds \"Defenders\" and \"Protectors\"? It would be great for them, because then they\'d have a reason to exist -- defend players against raids and attacks along country roads and in the darker places of the world.
Originally posted by Bnm85
A fairly low stat player should be able to kill a maxed out stat \"veteran\" PvP\'er.
Perhaps as a very rare event, or if the low stat player has a high level in backstab, or if the low stat player is using magicks -- and even then it\'s a task. I\'m still not convinced that there\'s a reason to make things that way however.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Both were comic books before they were movies.... I\'ve read the original conan series starting with #1, it\'s a good read. :-D
Yes, they were, except I thought the \"Spawn\" movie sucked. The animated series were much better. Also, I\'m not a huge fan of comic books. I prefer regular books, animation, and movies. And \"Conan\" will always be remembered as a movie with Arnold in a main role rather than a comic book. Same with \"Spawn\" - excellent piece of animation. ;)
Originally posted by zanzibar
I think that it would be interesting if a crucial or extremely useful item WAS exclusively available in a \"danger zone\". You know the guilds \"Defenders\" and \"Protectors\"? It would be great for them, because then they\'d have a reason to exist -- defend players against raids and attacks along country roads and in the darker places of the world.
Crucial - no. Extremely useful - sure. :)
Originally posted by zanzibar
Perhaps as a very rare event, or if the low stat player has a high level in backstab, or if the low stat player is using magicks -- and even then it\'s a task. I\'m still not convinced that there\'s a reason to make things that way however.
Then how do you propose that a lower stat player has a chance against a maxed out stat PvP camper, without player level range restrictions? An extremely useful or even crucial item would be of benefit during your character progression. And if the only time you can get it is when you max your own character, it becomes not so crucial after all. Unless, it gives one an access to a new area, where the reward isn\'t stats anymore but new items and gear for PvP or just for looks. PvP needs to be very carefully thought out by the devs. I actually do want some open PvP areas, where danger is lurking everywhere. But lack of player levels makes it extremely difficult to come up with a good working system.
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Planeshift will always have the same history and stuff because if it didn\'t it wouldn\'t be planeshift! :P
Is there anything else that even needs to be said?
Well, one thing. If you find a more original free mmorpg out there, go play it and leave ps.
The only thing I can compare ps\'s originality with is dark and light.
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Planeshift will always have the same history and stuff because if it didn\'t it wouldn\'t be planeshift! :P
Is there anything else that even needs to be said?
Ok, that didn\'t make sense at all. Why wouldn\'t it be PlaneShift? If the changes and/or additions were made by the original writer of the story, it\'d still be PlaneShift. Some people are just too afraid of a change. ;)
Well, one thing. If you find a more original free mmorpg out there, go play it and leave ps.
The only thing I can compare ps\'s originality with is dark and light.
Well, for one thing, I\'m the only one who decides what MMORPGs I play or don\'t play. As for originality - \"The Chronicles of SpellBorn\". ;)
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Nods to Bmn85,
I don\'t know what the big deal is about fleshing out the PS lore. Especially the background infromation on each race. I would also put my vote in for changing the Ynnwn\'s name. Where are the vowels?
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Originally posted by Seytra
Absolutely there will be evil. However, the major difference is that in any game it usually is controlled so that it never gets out of hand. Challenge / realism or not, there is reason why the term \"griefing\" came into existance. I never said everyone gets along with everyone else. The difference is to what extent troublemakers can be allowed to roam freely. This is why a mutual agreement of some sort must be reached, since otherwise there would be no way to differentiate between RP and OOC jerk-ness. And no, the latter must never be allowed. Duelling newbies surely is the latter, and it\'s by far out-occuring RP.
Whiule uncontrolled jerkness would surely be realistic, games can only be realistic to a certain extent until they cease being games.
RP involves being responsible in whatever you do to others, and there is no way of assuring this except mutual agreement. Zanzibar, you say that \"interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on.\" and make it seem as if this would conflict with \"this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\"\". However, actually it is an intrinsic part of it! Indeed without hinderances, etc. there would be very few RP opportunity. The major difference is what is acceptable and what is not. You want a \"free for all\" environment, where whatever you do can be claimed to be RP and thus acceptable. This concept cannot work, however. If it did, there would be no rules in any MMORPG. It is fun for those who powerlevel and then deal the \"hinderances\" to other, less experienced players.
The only way to do it right is to, in all respects, never go above what the other player can deal with while still enjoying the game. And the only way to do so is mutual agreement. It is absolutely possible to RP being surprised while you have agreed upon the ambush OOC-ly. It is one of the most important abilities of any RPer to be able to clearly differentiate IC and OOC. However, for this to work, it is necessary that one can trust the other player in that it is really is RP only and not OOC greed, carelessness or similar despisable things.
This self-moderation is in PnP RPGs done by the GM, and the players know they can trust / rely on the GM. In an MMORPG, this GM role must be assumed by each player, and thus they need to be trustworthy as well. And if I am not completely sure that I can trust another player to be responsible and moderated, I am not going to interact with that player. This is where open PvP, thieving, etc. systems fail completely, and why they are causeing so much grief: becuase untrustworthy players can force themselves upon others, thereby disrupting the RP not by the doing of evil or good, but by being irresponsible.
Heh, when i reed this 10 hours ago, when i was going to sleep, there was no replies. But i wanted to answer this, so here it comes.
Everyone knows what people play PS, there are both valuable roleplayers and people who have no idea what is that, or don\'t want to know. We are all playing together, no matter what. We are supposed to interact with each other. We can ignore some of them, but can\'t deny their existance, because they are so big group of people.
From one side you say that there can\'t be free for all like in real, because of people who dont roleplay and are acting to spoil others fun from playing.
But from other side because of mutual agreement we can decide about thing which we cant in real. Then we are expecting that when interacting with others we can be sure it will be roleplaying, not ooc behaviour. Can we really do? Aren\'t those people the same people because of which there is no \"free for all\"? The same group which you wanted to forbid from doing this what harass you?
So you choose to ignore them, like they wasn\'t existing. Why to deny them? Wasn\'t there he same people in medieval times? There still all, people who try to take advantage on someone else.
Why not fight them insted of ignoring? The more we try to stop them, the more we hurt ourselves. Sure this won\'t be a problem for a person who spent his/her time on plaza or in tavern. But if you go out, seeking for adventure, there will be none.
Seytra, you say that we can rp ambush. Both sides know about the ambush as they both have to agree with possibility their characters will be killed bu the other. The true rp-er is supposed to have fun from the ambush... its suprise? What suprise? You ca try to play that, but one must have really two independent personalities, so that it will work. I will say on my example, because i don\'t fear to talk about my rp skills and i\'m aware of this what i can and what can\'t. I have to be same suprised by the ambush as my character would be. I can play that, but fun from it will be decreased to minimum as it will be as any other fight, not ambush.
Now, will you ignore me as i can\'t do the same what you? Or maybe you won\'t make ambush on group of people which i\'m part? And in other cases you will interact as normal.
If so, when you will be writing a story or talk about that, you will ignore certain facts and add those which didnt happen? And this only because otherwise story would be ooc.
\"Conan killed all my family and now came the time of revange as i\'m ready to fight with him. But Conan didn\'t agreed on that and nothing can be done about it, i can\'t revenge death of my family\"
If we won\'t try to develop a diferent system and keep thinking it is because of mutual agreement. Nothing good will happen.
Why If there are people which goal is to hurt others, there can\'t be people who protect the weak and fight with criminals?
I haven\'t seen a MMORPG where it would happen.
PS isn\'t commercial project and i\'m sure it is more likely to happen we would work out a system where the people who break the law would be proportionaly punished.
The rogues, bandits and others aren\'t only stupid NPCs, but they could be other players.
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Honestly I don\'t care about the game to be unique...I am not playing games to be 31337 but to have fun. ;)
Regards.
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Originally posted by Bnm85
Then how do you propose that a lower stat player has a chance against a maxed out stat PvP camper, without player level range restrictions? An extremely useful or even crucial item would be of benefit during your character progression. And if the only time you can get it is when you max your own character, it becomes not so crucial after all. Unless, it gives one an access to a new area, where the reward isn\'t stats anymore but new items and gear for PvP or just for looks. PvP needs to be very carefully thought out by the devs. I actually do want some open PvP areas, where danger is lurking everywhere. But lack of player levels makes it extremely difficult to come up with a good working system.
1. Perhaps a new player will have no chance against a highly experienced player in PvP. The answer: Don\'t PvP someone you know will kill you! And if someone is camping somewhere, find somewhere else!
2. If you need to enter a dangerous area, then who says you have to do it alone? Planeshift is about working together! Instead of travelling alone on a dangerous highway or in an abandonded castle, bring friends! If you don\'t have any friends, hire members of the protectors or defenders!
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
PS isn\'t commercial project and i\'m sure it is more likely to happen we would work out a system where the people who break the law would be proportionaly punished.
Careful! Theivery and murder might add colour to the game, don\'t be entirly dismissive.
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Originally posted by Platyna
Honestly I don\'t care about the game to be unique...I am not playing games to be 31337 but to have fun. ;)
Unique = 31337? MmmmK. ;)
Originally posted by zanzibar
1. Perhaps a new player will have no chance against a highly experienced player in PvP. The answer: Don\'t PvP someone you know will kill you! And if someone is camping somewhere, find somewhere else!
No, you misunderstood. If there are open PvP areas, with your proposed \"crucial\" item, which means a player MUST get it, they have to enter such an open PvP area. And there\'s nothing to stop some maxed out stat PvP\'er from camping the entrance etc. The point is that having crucial items in such areas isn\'t such a great idea. Very valuable, maybe but not crucial. Unless, a different PvP system can be implemented, where stats and gear don\'t necessarily dictate an outcome.
2. If you need to enter a dangerous area, then who says you have to do it alone? Planeshift is about working together! Instead of travelling alone on a dangerous highway or in an abandonded castle, bring friends! If you don\'t have any friends, hire members of the protectors or defenders!
That is only if you can gather enough skilled people to go there in the first place. Considering it\'s a dangerous PvP area, not many people may be willing to go in the first place. Second, depending on how PvP is implemented, a single maxed out person may be able to take out a whole group with ease. I\'ve been playing some commercial MMORPGs and in some of them, a single person with better gear and stats/level can take out several people who have average gear. Hence, why it depends on what role stats and gear will play.
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Originally posted by Bnm85
That is only if you can gather enough skilled people to go there in the first place. Considering it\'s a dangerous PvP area, not many people may be willing to go in the first place. Second, depending on how PvP is implemented, a single maxed out person may be able to take out a whole group with ease. I\'ve been playing some commercial MMORPGs and in some of them, a single person with better gear and stats/level can take out several people who have average gear. Hence, why it depends on what role stats and gear will play.
It is not commercial game and i believe devs are developing game which won\'t have all the random stuff what players want. Thus i think there wont be people who can\'t be defeated, because they have been PL for 2 months.
This fear from othr MMORPG is only another argument to keep the skills and weapons on realistic level. People got used to fact they can become semi gods which is wrong way of thinking. The real power of people should be a group, not individuals. Make it different and look how many things will change because this little change. All what is happening in a world have its consequences. It is up to devs who work so hard and up to us to make a world which can be called world, not game.
Am I thinking of utopia? There is at least one world where it works and you know about what i\'m talking
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
It is not commercial game and i believe devs are developing game which won\'t have all the random stuff what players want.
So? Does that mean a concept of PvP cannot be compared? Are commercial games made by aliens from outer space? Anyway...
Thus i think there wont be people who can\'t be defeated, because they have been PL for 2 months.
No, the only way there won\'t be people who played for 2 months and can\'t be defeated is if the PvP system is well thought out. Learning from commercial games isn\'t such a bad idea either.
This fear from othr MMORPG is only another argument to keep the skills and weapons on realistic level. People got used to fact they can become semi gods which is wrong way of thinking.
This is not a \"fear\" but a normal discussion on possibilities and outcomes.
The real power of people should be a group, not individuals.
Have you played any other MMORPGs, commercial or otherwise? You should know by now that the \"group\" idea sounds good on paper but is completely different in practice. Sure, it\'s great when it works but when it doesn\'t... You may have only an hour per day to play, and gathering a decent group can take half that time. Then someone in a group may have to suddenly leave, someone could end up arguing with another person due to some differences and leave. Getting a group, actually interested and skilled enough to go into an open PvP area could be a huge problem. And even when you get a group, there\'s no guarantee that you\'ll even succeed in getting that \"crucial\" to your progression item. And then you still have to roll for who gets that item. Some people in that group may become frustrated and leave, and so on. That is why you see so many topics on best solo character development on MMORPG forums all the time. Not because people hate groups but because it doesn\'t always work out as great as it does on paper.
Make it different and look how many things will change because this little change. All what is happening in a world have its consequences. It is up to devs who work so hard and up to us to make a world which can be called world, not game.
Isn\'t that what we\'re doing here? It\'s all nice and well to speak of it as a \"world\" and ignore the \"game\" factor when it\'s someone else who has to deal with the technical details, so it\'s enjoyable for all people. If we could just \"wish\" it and not have to worry about code, gameplay issues and other technical details, it\'d be great. But things don\'t work like that. :)
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Originally posted by Bnm85
Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Planeshift will always have the same history and stuff because if it didn\'t it wouldn\'t be planeshift! :P
Is there anything else that even needs to be said?
Ok, that didn\'t make sense at all. Why wouldn\'t it be PlaneShift? If the changes and/or additions were made by the original writer of the story, it\'d still be PlaneShift. Some people are just too afraid of a change. ;)
Well, one thing. If you find a more original free mmorpg out there, go play it and leave ps.
The only thing I can compare ps\'s originality with is dark and light.
Well, for one thing, I\'m the only one who decides what MMORPGs I play or don\'t play. As for originality - \"The Chronicles of SpellBorn\". ;)
Wow. The devs arn\'t changing planeshift to your liking, get over it and stop complaining.
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Wow. The devs arn\'t changing planeshift to your liking, get over it and stop complaining.
It\'s exclusively for me to decide whether I want to complain or not, not for you. You have absolutely no say or control in what I decide to discuss. ;)
No one\'s complaining, except you, anyway. We\'re just talking about things. And, obviously, it\'s not just my liking. As you can see, several people would like to see at least some additions and a more detailed lore. Besides, there\'s nothing wrong with suggesting things. Maybe they should remove \"Wish List\" forum altogether, since it\'s \"forbidden\" to wish certain changes? Sometimes it can make a dev more open-minded. And if not, it\'s fun to discuss it anyway. Besides, you\'re not a dev, so speak for yourself only, not for them or what you think they want or do not want to change.
So, calm down, don\'t be so bitter, and don\'t get upset. :)
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Stop being a smartass, you\'re annoying. :) ;) :] :)) 8) :D :)) :P
Ya, the smilys don\'t change anything. Imagine that...
And when talad himself has said he\'s not changing ps why even bother talking about this. I would soo close this thread if I could...
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Stop being a smartass, you\'re annoying. :) ;) :] :)) 8) :D :)) :P
Ya, the smilys don\'t change anything. Imagine that...
Apparently they get some people mad or just go plain crazy. :P
And when talad himself has said he\'s not changing ps why even bother talking about this. I would soo close this thread if I could...
Quote me where he said \"I\'m not changing PS\". As you will see in my earlier posts in this thread, we already agreed that he won\'t change some things for sure, which is why I also had a paragraph on how to deal with what we\'re \"stuck\" with. It\'s just a matter of figuring out exactly what he\'s willing or not willing to change. Besides, in the history of various game developments, devs have been known to change their minds on things they have initially said \"would never be changed\". If, as you claim, Talad said, \"I\'m not changing PS\" and not \"I\'m not changing this or that aspect of PS\", he wouldn\'t have a \"Wish List\" forum in the first place. ;)
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Then post whatever it is you want in the wish list and leave general discussion alone. -_-
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Then post whatever it is you want in the wish list and leave general discussion alone. -_-
Ah, but as you notice, the original topic of this thread wasn\'t a wish on anything but rather a discussion on PS\' originality. It only later developed into mentioning things that could be implemented into PS, which is quite normal for posts on General Forum, including those you participated in. I didn\'t see you complain then. :)
And yet again, it\'s not for you to decide which forum I post on. If a mod feels it belongs on \"Wish List\", they can move it there, and, if not, it stays perfectly fine where it is, and you have absolutely no say or control in where it is because you\'re not a mod. So, don\'t act like one. ;)
By the same \"logic\" as yours, feel free to leave this thread any time. Don\'t like it? Don\'t read it and/or don\'t reply to it. :D
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
Then we are expecting that when interacting with others we can be sure it will be roleplaying, not ooc behaviour. Can we really do? Aren\'t those people the same people because of which there is no \"free for all\"? The same group which you wanted to forbid from doing this what harass you?
Definitely they are a quite different group. While you can make arrangements with the one, you can\'t with the other. They might use pseudo-RP if they are forced to, but that will last exactly as long as they need to make you agree. Usually you can spot it.
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Why not fight them insted of ignoring? The more we try to stop them, the more we hurt ourselves. Sure this won\'t be a problem for a person who spent his/her time on plaza or in tavern. But if you go out, seeking for adventure, there will be none.
If you consider being randomly killed by people who enjoy killing other players because they can, and consider this the purpose of the game, then I can see what you mean. If not, the only possibility for \"adventure\" would be that no OOC PvPer exists, which is impossible, obviously. Your \"adventure\" (which surely is supposed to be IC) would be reduced to OOC-ly hiding and running from other OOC-ers. More like in an FPS. While this might, at the first glance, seem realistic or even enjoyable, it in fact isn\'t. (see at the end)
Originally posted by Nikodemus
\"Conan killed all my family and now came the time of revange as i\'m ready to fight with him. But Conan didn\'t agreed on that and nothing can be done about it, i can\'t revenge death of my family\"
If we won\'t try to develop a diferent system and keep thinking it is because of mutual agreement. Nothing good will happen.
A lot of good is happening by removing a lot of bad, actually. Seeing that there still are a lot of completely OOC duelling requests, even by players who have already been told to not do so, proves that there would ba an incredible mess of uncontrolled PvP if there was no mutual agreement required. And these are not only n00bs, some of them are well levelled PLs. Open PvP does not further RP, it rewards PL, which is 100% OOC.
Originally posted by Nikodemus
So you choose to ignore them, like they wasn\'t existing. Why to deny them? Wasn\'t there he same people in medieval times? There still all, people who try to take advantage on someone else.
(...)
Why If there are people which goal is to hurt others, there can\'t be people who protect the weak and fight with criminals?
I haven\'t seen a MMORPG where it would happen.
PS isn\'t commercial project and i\'m sure it is more likely to happen we would work out a system where the people who break the law would be proportionaly punished.
The rogues, bandits and others aren\'t only stupid NPCs, but they could be other players.
The reason for this never being able to work is that OOC PvP-ers will know the system and how it is best used to avoid not just being defeated, but also being caught altogether. You would need to have >50% of the playerbase be GMs to control that somehow. Obviously, you will never be able to get that many reliable, skilled and honest players. Also, the entire system relies completely on the community, and the availability of the \"good\" chars. However, these are restricted by RL things, so you can never rely on that. And even if, it may be very well likely that certain timezones have a lack of these, what would you do if you happen to be in one of them?
It is impossible to re-create medieval fee without both, good and evil sides, OOC-ly agree on rules that even out the playing field. These rules must, first and foremost, work around the fact that PS is merely a game, and thus there is no way of constantly attending it. This is essential, but an open PvP system cannot address this. The OOC PvPers will not care about their victims availability or whatever. Instead, they will quite readily seek out such times of OOC weakness.
The second most important thing is that the rules must ensure not the maximised fun of a few, but the maximised fun of every decent player. Thusly, while the fun of some individuals will indeed be lower than the maximum possible for them, the overall average enjoyment will increase. IOW, you will not have a few people having fun at the expense of everyone else, but everyone will have fun at the expense of slightly reduced enjoyment of few.
It\'s all fine and dandy to say \"Hey, the game world is dangerous, gang up to defend yourself!\". The problem is that the ganging up aspect is by far not always possible, as I have said already, and also that, even if it\'s possible, it would force players into grinding and PLing just to be able to actually play. The only way controlled and even adventure can be delivered is by way of the environment, i.e., MOBs, not players, because players are unreliable, both in terms of availability and in honesty. IC evil is good, OOC evil is bad and it\'s possible impact must be reduced to the absolute minimum possible.
As for the \"changing PS\" aspect: seriously, it is my impression that what background we currently have is by far not the end result. It merely is the rough skeleton of what it is intended to become. I would be (unpleasantly) surprised if the devs would regard this as \"mostly finished\" because, frankly, it isn\'t. We have very basic ideas on what the history, the world and the races are. Basically enough to reach a somewhat meaningful decision on what to play as. What we are lacking is what is quite common in the recent generation of PnP RPGs: a set of in depth, highly detailed books on each and every aspect of the world, dieties and races, including lore, legends, mindset, customs and environmental descriptions for everything, along with IC songs, poems and essays.
I see this happening in the library, actually. Some of the books add details that are not contained in the website, and what is written there is mostly done in a way that is usable in RP.
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Originally posted by Seytra
A lot of good is happening by removing a lot of bad, actually. Seeing that there still are a lot of completely OOC duelling requests, even by players who have already been told to not do so, proves that there would ba an incredible mess of uncontrolled PvP if there was no mutual agreement required. And these are not only n00bs, some of them are well levelled PLs. Open PvP does not further RP, it rewards PL, which is 100% OOC.
What\'s ooc to some people is completely RP-related to others.
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Seytra: Both mine and yours point viev are nothing more but theory. We can\'t be sure how players will act in different rules. It is the matter of what we are thinking and what we think we know and is right. You defend the current rules of PS basing your experience on other games. I am trying to give alternative basing on this how think and what can do people in real. Why? Because I haven\'t seen a game which was purely realistic. The games are made this way how people want them. As people don\'t like few things which we have in real, these are made different in games.
And so:
We have half-gods who gained their power on training. They may train so much that their powers could be compared to supermen. Sure it is funny, but see how many things change because of this little addition. We don\'t have one supermen, but a lot of them. Who are they? Powerlevers, often hurting other people. Now this isn\'t funny anymore. Think of other disadvantages and how change people way of thinking. How this change group behaviour. In real is obvious the more people work together the more they can do.
We have super equipment. We like to have things which are many times better than normal so that we become more powerfull. It is obvious we can\'t in real. The effect is this what was meant to be unique, is property of all players. NPC\'s will still have poor normal equipment, because they are made on the example of reality which paradoxally make the game world unrealistic. For players normal equipment will be once super equpment. Think of more consequences
We have animals and NPC\'s running and respawning all around. In effect most people are hunters. If there is not enough prey because more players started playing at the same time, then they complain they want more. And so we have more and more hunters. In real people would start doing different job, seeing the previous isn\'t that much profitable. Furher in effect we have thousads of killed animals and NPC\'s every day. Where do they come from? Who buy all the goods which hunters sell? So this is another well with no end which will never become full?
3 different changes and see how much the game world is different from real.
Why do I keep talkin about real? Because roleplaying we think and act basing on this how people behalved 600 years ago. In MMOPRGs it is also one of the reasons why most people don\'t roleplay. Few do, but they have no arguments to convince those who don\'t. The rules and additions which are supposed to give fun (in PS fun from rp) completly break the atmosphere. I don\'t know anymore what should roleplay. This what i know from reality, the common rules of how people act, think and do? Or basing on this what is in game? Only the last is completly illogical and if i try to roleplay this, when there comes about explaining, at some point it will all break because saying one i will deny this what i just said.
What\'s the point of all game features if there is no way to roleplay this what is happening?
It is this what i have said already. If we choose fun rather than realism, then roleplaying won\'t be important too.
Maximalizing fun the biggest group of people isn\'t always the best idea, because what if mayority takes the fun not from rp, but somethink else? People define fun in different ways
If the game will try to be realistic, then i\'m sure it will bring attention of roleplayers who will work together to scare off those of powerlevelers who act only to spoil fun of others. If you take away from PL this what allow him to grow stronger and in that place put somethink what need thinking and group working, then it won\'t be constant retreat from confrontation.
Also, i\'m not expecting complete freedom in this what one may do. First, somethink what will stop people from doing this must be created. You know what exactly i propose. But not somethink what will stop them completly, people must know that doing somethink may cost them a lot more and they may regret. Let people do what they want don\'t work in games, because they can stop playing. Adding invisible barriers doesnt work too, because it leads to many other consequences.
Maybe i have missed many points, maybe people don\'t want this what i propose, because they want to have their definition of \"fun\" and rp at the same time which for me isn\'t always possible.
I respect your point of viev Seytra, there is a lot of truth in what you write, there always is ;)
I think no matter what i will say PS will have the same absurds what other MMORPGs have, next updates will probably decide about this. In this case, this what you write will be fully valid.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
What\'s ooc to some people is completely RP-related to others.
Example? :)
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I have a weird feeling that my last post killed the conversation. And i really wanted to see someone commenting it.....
I don\'t think so i went much offtopic as i tried to show how PS is similiar to other MMORPGs. The only thing it is generally different is the fact people try to rp.
So anyone dare to comment my previous post? ;>
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
What\'s ooc to some people is completely RP-related to others.
Example? :)
Fighting using the PVP system instead of the /me command is considered by some to be OOC while considered by others to be entirely in character.
The topic has wandered a bit though, sorry ya\'ll.
(btw, bump)
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Heh, you made that post long time ago, so you might not notice:
The thing was about the reasons given for dueling. Like fighting someone because he offended your character vs fighting someone because you want to score few duel points.
So your example isn\'t valid.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Heh, you made that post long time ago, so you might not notice:
The thing was about the reasons given for dueling. Like fighting someone because he offended your character vs fighting someone because you want to score few duel points.
So your example isn\'t valid.
First, what I said was valid IMO. If you disagree, then we disagree and that\'s it. Read the post Karyuu was replying to if you want to understand my position, I don\'t think it\'s worth agruing over. You thought it was worthy of note though, so it must have some importance to you.
Anyway, people get up about duelling for fun and training. It\'s not just people duelling for duel points. There have been people from time to time who see ANY kind of PVP for ANY reason to be out of character. I once killed someone as part of a roleplaying thingy, and some noob reported me to a GM saying that I wasn\'t acting like a gentleman!
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Read the post Karyuu was replying to if you want to understand my position,
Read the post you were replying to and after that Karyuu\'s. You were taking things out of context.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
Read the post Karyuu was replying to if you want to understand my position,
Read the post you were replying to and after that Karyuu\'s. You were taking things out of context.
So what? Karyuu asked me for an example of what I was talking about. Maybe I was talking about the wrong thing, but I was still talking about what I was talking about, rightfully or wrongfully.
And why the heck do you care anyway? Couldn\'t you have let it fly? Was it really worth making two posts about something so stupid?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
So what? Karyuu asked me for an example of what I was talking about. Maybe I was talking about the wrong thing, but I was still talking about what I was talking about, rightfully or wrongfully.
And that is the reason you are infamous on the boards.
Really I don\'t think Karyuu or Seytra has been biting their nails for the last 3 months waiting for your reply on what role play is. I think it still would have been unanswered if I had not posted a link to it in the Dragon and Trolls thread you made.
Really with your personallity I think you should resurect your Zanzibar character and make him a Litch. Just engage in some theriputic satanic laughter every now and then to keep your sanity.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Originally posted by zanzibar
So what? Karyuu asked me for an example of what I was talking about. Maybe I was talking about the wrong thing, but I was still talking about what I was talking about, rightfully or wrongfully.
And that is the reason you are infamous on the boards.
Actually, it isn\'t. Nice try though.
Originally posted by derwoodly
Really I don\'t think Karyuu or Seytra has been biting their nails for the last 3 months waiting for your reply on what role play is. I think it still would have been unanswered if I had not posted a link to it in the Dragon and Trolls thread you made.
Really with your personallity I think you should resurect your Zanzibar character and make him a Litch. Just engage in some theriputic satanic laughter every now and then to keep your sanity.
Nice try again, but Zanzibar was never one of my main characters. Further, I revived this thread because someone else though it was good, useful, and current. Since we always have new faces around here, I thought it would be nice to get some fresh responses.
I appreciate that you\'re trying to be nasty, but you could learn to do a better job of it!
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Originally posted by zanzibar
So what? Karyuu asked me for an example of what I was talking about. Maybe I was talking about the wrong thing, but I was still talking about what I was talking about, rightfully or wrongfully.
And that is the reason you are infamous on the boards.
Really I don\'t think Karyuu or Seytra has been biting their nails for the last 3 months waiting for your reply on what role play is. I think it still would have been unanswered if I had not posted a link to it in the Dragon and Trolls thread you made.
Really with your personallity I think you should resurect your Zanzibar character and make him a Litch. Just engage in some theriputic satanic laughter every now and then to keep your sanity.
Ouch! Touche, Derwoodly. Touche.
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What is it with this hostility? Zanzibar didn\'t say anything so dreadful as to deserve such replies, so please control yourselves. Derwoodly, you haven\'t added anything to the discussion, though he attempted (rightfully) to answer a question that was asked of him before - I hate deleting posts, but please don\'t push my limits. Moreover, his reply was to me - and if I had any complaints, I would\'ve raised them..
Now if anyone has anything to say that is appropriate to the original discussion, please say it :<
*edited to add* Derwoodly, your reply following my post has been deleted. No more.