PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Rage McCloud on September 05, 2005, 04:11:14 am
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Ok kind of like in Elder Scrolls... a bargaining system... were when you click an item in a store you could try to talk the store keeper down on the price... if infact your \"speechcraft\" was high enough... but if it was too low and it failed he may raise the price... and if the alignment system goes through then you might be able to have an and a button...
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Stripped right from morrowind! I love unoriginal Ideas!
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[Eh, So I was in a pissy mood....]
Anyway for \"Real\" feedback;
Speechcraft (The name) is something unique for ES and we should leave it that way :)
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... well how about some actual feed back since i said that i got it from morrowind... and anywho thats not what i was thinking of when i started the thread... but then i remembered morrowind has it so i added that part so people wouldnt flame... but again its not reliable to make people read things...
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Just because the idea isn\'t \"original\" does not necessarily mean the idea isn\'t good. Hit Points and Mana Points aren\'t original ideas either, but they seem to work OK. PS does try to be \"different\" from most other MMORPGs, but that doesn\'t mean that every game concept has to be unique.
Now, about the idea at hand...
In order for this to work, we would need some sort of \"reputation\" system. The game would have to know (based on some sort of algorithm) whether you are \"good\" or \"evil\". I have gone on record (in another thread) that I don\'t think this is a good idea. I don\'t think we can count on the AI being intelligent enough to understand our characters\' motivations.
The only other way to implement reputations would be to have a system in which players \"rated\" each others\' characters. I would reject this idea for two reasons: a) the potential for abuse, and b) a character\'s reputation would need to be made visible to all players, which would further detract from RP. In the real world, you can\'t tell whether a person is good or evil just by looking at them; they don\'t have a special color, or unique icon over their head.
Assuming the whole concept of player-based economy gets going, this should become a moot point anyway. Personally, I would much rather go to a player-owned store to buy my gear that have to get it from Harnquist. Hopefully, I will be able to obtain most items I need from other members of my guild, or from merchants with whom the guild has developed a relationship. I might even get a discount from the merchant due to a purchasing contract between the guild and the merchant. Or I might need to obtain a rare item, available only from some of the \"shadier\" elements of society, and need to pay a higher price due to my not being in the proper guild. So there we have the potential for flexible pricing, bargaining, and bartering, totally within the confines of RP, and without needing to alter the game code.
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Of course, for all this to work, we need NPCs that know more english than 2-year olds. Soo.. we need to wait :D
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In Morrowind, if the price went too high that way, you could just end the conversation and begin it again, this way returning to the normal price. It was awful.
To pretend that in Planeshift, you\'d have to clutter the database with what every merchant thinks of every character... That would be quite a bit of trash right there...
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Reputation has nothing to do with it. What this would be, and btw it was in Daggerfall before it\'s sequel, is a skill called \"bargaining\" (mercantile in daggerfall).
I think that the worthiness of this skill must be directly linked to the creation of a player based economy.
On the one hand, if you can get killer deals from NPC, then you\'re less likely to buy from other players.
However, if a player hassve an awesome ability to bargain down prices, then he or she can make a living selling basic weapons to the player base!
More on reputation, and why it\'s not such a great idea:
Both good and evil characters should be able to get good prices from merchants, since many merchants probably identify themselves as neutral -- they\'re in it for the money. The idea of reputation points SUCK anyway because you will always be liked by some crowds and hated by others-- that makes the idea of a reputation point system absolutely worthless. If you\'re really popular with the underground and evil guilds, and you\'re really hated by good guilds, and then new people have opinions of you, and neutral guilds have opinions of you, etc etc, how can a single stat representing reputation reflect all that? Reputation is complex. It cannot be expressed by a stat, or even many stats. There\'s also more to reputation than simply being \"liked\" or \"disliked\".
Really, a stat for reputation which would prevent people from buying anything if it got too low? Think about it. It would turn planeshift into a livejournal voting community, where people would get voted off the island if the dominant crowd of regulars all decided to vote that player \'off the island\' by manipulating his or her reputation points. It isn\'t realistic, and it isn\'t nice.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Both good and evil characters should be able to get good prices from merchants, since many merchants probably identify themselves as neutral -- they\'re in it for the money.
From the rational point of view, merchant won\'t trust a shady character as much as he would trust a well known paladin. Even if the merchant is neutral, factors similar to charisma kick in and merchant may change the prices, or even not sell items at all.
From the alignments point of view, neutrality means not joining the paths of good or evil, yet it doesn\'t mean looking at both paths in a same way. \"Neutrals\" aren\'t going to accept what \"evils\" do, the difference from \"goods\" is that \"neutrals\" won\'t try to stop them (although they just might if life of loved ones is endangered).
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@ Draklar:
I think those \"neutrals\" you mentioned can\'t be really neutral when they dislike the \"bad\" ones and support the \"good\" ones. Really neutral merchants would not look at the other\'s character, but at their own profit, and \"bad\" guys\" don\'t have to be worse customers than \"good\" guys ...
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Basically, it\'s like saying merchant will behave in same way towards unkept vandal and a knight in shiny armour... Right...
Neutrality was never about looking at good and evil in same way.
Say, you\'re an average guy sitting in your home. You don\'t give money for charities, but you also don\'t steal and stuff like that. Now tell me, if you\'d be watching TV and there was said something about a guy that rescued a girl from a burning home... and a guy that set that home on fire... You wouldn\'t give more sympathy (or respect, anything) to the \"heroic\" one?
Neutral people are usualy grateful for protection and they don\'t like the idea of some \"evil\" dudes running around ruining others\' lives.
Plus, need to gain money is one thing. Being seen while dealing with shady characters is another. Not exactly the best thing for business... I believe dealing with renown heroes would bring a merchant much more respect...
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Before anyone ever complains about \"unoriginal ideas\" from other games, they should take a second look at the official PlaneShift site and description for \"Wish List\" forum. Here, I\'ll save some work for you:
\"The Wish List Forum is reserved to give good ideas on what you would like to see in the game. Will be good to post here also ideas taken from other games.\"
Oh, and I like the \"bargaining\" idea. Will be great for Diaboli people with high CHA stat. And yes, I think it should purely be based on a CHA stat and nothing else, whether your char is good or evil. :) And rather than trying to bargain, I think the price should be automatically calculated based on your CHA stat. Simple as that.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
Both good and evil characters should be able to get good prices from merchants, since many merchants probably identify themselves as neutral -- they\'re in it for the money.
From the rational point of view, merchant won\'t trust a shady character as much as he would trust a well known paladin. Even if the merchant is neutral, factors similar to charisma kick in and merchant may change the prices, or even not sell items at all.
From the alignments point of view, neutrality means not joining the paths of good or evil, yet it doesn\'t mean looking at both paths in a same way. \"Neutrals\" aren\'t going to accept what \"evils\" do, the difference from \"goods\" is that \"neutrals\" won\'t try to stop them (although they just might if life of loved ones is endangered).
You\'re wrong. Merchants not selling to \"evil\" characters is:
- unrealistic
- impractical
If we lose characters who are in the underground, then we we lose what is IMO an important part of many RPGs. Do you think that if we have a rating system, people will want to fill the role of the theif, the scoundrel, the crime lord, the assassin, the rogue, the drunk, etc? No. Instead, people will run around trying to get their \"reputation stat\" higher. Entire guilds will form for the sole purpose of voting each member\'s reputation stat higher.
Plus there\'s the whole \"voting off the island\" bit.
Also, most of the merchants in the planeshift world are freaking arms merchants! Do you think an arms merchant cares too much about who he\'s selling weapons to? As long as he gets his money, of course? No. So saying that NPCs won\'t do business with \"evil\" (unpopular) characters is just silly. And if there are NPCs which sell only to \"good\" (popular) characters, then there must also be NPCs which sell only to \"evil\" (unpopular) characters as well.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Basically, it\'s like saying merchant will behave in same way towards unkept vandal and a knight in shiny armour... Right...
Neutrality was never about looking at good and evil in same way.
Say, you\'re an average guy sitting in your home. You don\'t give money for charities, but you also don\'t steal and stuff like that. Now tell me, if you\'d be watching TV and there was said something about a guy that rescued a girl from a burning home... and a guy that set that home on fire... You wouldn\'t give more sympathy (or respect, anything) to the \"heroic\" one?
Neutral people are usualy grateful for protection and they don\'t like the idea of some \"evil\" dudes running around ruining others\' lives.
Plus, need to gain money is one thing. Being seen while dealing with shady characters is another. Not exactly the best thing for business... I believe dealing with renown heroes would bring a merchant much more respect...
You have a poor understanding of what neutrality means. Think about the Kjeld guild from before the wipe -- a good example of a neutral guild. They believed that the world requires a ballance between good and evil. Too much good is a bad thing, and not enough evil in the world is also a problem. That\'s what it truly means to be neutral. A truely neutral warrior may even switch sides in the middle of a battle once one side starts winning.
And there are people in the world who would feel more sympathy for the arsonist than for the victims.
Originally posted by Bnm85
Before anyone ever complains about \"unoriginal ideas\" from other games, they should take a second look at the official PlaneShift site and description for \"Wish List\" forum. Here, I\'ll save some work for you:
\"The Wish List Forum is reserved to give good ideas on what you would like to see in the game. Will be good to post here also ideas taken from other games.\"
Oh, and I like the \"bargaining\" idea. Will be great for Diaboli people with high CHA stat. And yes, I think it should purely be based on a CHA stat and nothing else, whether your char is good or evil. :) And rather than trying to bargain, I think the price should be automatically calculated based on your CHA stat. Simple as that.
I agree. There are many evil people in this world who can convince you that they\'re your friend or buddy. They do it well, they do if often, and they do it to get something from you. Bargaining should be a charisma related stat, I agree. That would be great, because people who don\'t have a lot in terms of constitution are at a disadvantage in terms of fighting and therefore are at a disadvantage in terms of money making via rats and clackers.
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A bargaining \"skill\" based solely on Charisma would make sense; \"good\" and \"evil\" don\'t need to enter int0 the equation in any way. I only have one concern:
Charisma score is determined at character creation. That\'s fine; Diaboli inherently have more charisma than Kran. That makes perfect sense. But there needs to be a mechanism whereby you can change your charisma score. You might work very hard to become \"charming\" in order to overcome deficiencies in your outward appearance, or you might be naturally charismatic, but act like a real jerk to all you come in contact with. There needs to be some way for the game to account for behavior and its effect on charisma.
Training cannot be the answer, or else everyone could just buy their way to a high charisma score. We can\'t use a player-rating system, for reasons which have already been pointed out in this thread. I can\'t come up with a way to do it unless we can give the AI an IQ boost of about a jillion percent.
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
A bargaining \"skill\" based solely on Charisma would make sense; \"good\" and \"evil\" don\'t need to enter int0 the equation in any way. I only have one concern:
Charisma score is determined at character creation. That\'s fine; Diaboli inherently have more charisma than Kran. That makes perfect sense. But there needs to be a mechanism whereby you can change your charisma score. You might work very hard to become \"charming\" in order to overcome deficiencies in your outward appearance, or you might be naturally charismatic, but act like a real jerk to all you come in contact with. There needs to be some way for the game to account for behavior and its effect on charisma.
Training cannot be the answer, or else everyone could just buy their way to a high charisma score. We can\'t use a player-rating system, for reasons which have already been pointed out in this thread. I can\'t come up with a way to do it unless we can give the AI an IQ boost of about a jillion percent.
Charisma measures your ability to win people over WHEN YOU WANT OR NEED TO. Someone can act like a jerk most of the time, yet be able to charm people when he or she wants to.
Reputation among other players should be a NATURALISTIC THING. There is NO need to turn it into a stat.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Charisma measures your ability to win people over WHEN YOU WANT OR NEED TO. Someone can act like a jerk most of the time, yet be able to charm people when he or she wants to.
My problem is with the fact that charisma needs to be adjustable. I will grant that all Diaboli are born with a great deal of charisma, and that no matter what their personality, they will always have the ability to make use of it. But I don\'t agree that those born with low charisma are unable to increase it. There needs, at the very least, to be a way to increase one\'s charisma. The problem is that there seems to be no proper way to manage this within the game.
Reputation among other players should be a NATURALISTIC THING. There is NO need to turn it into a stat.
I agree 100% on this. Reputation should never be a stat, or a skill, or anything with any sort of number attaches. It should be what it is: a general estimation of the way the community as a whole feels about the person.
I still see the best solution for this is to develop the player-based economy. Then both reputation and charisma become a natural part of the interaction between players, and statistics need not come into play at all. Perhaps NPC merchants could be restricted to only basic equipment. That way, new characters who have not had time to develop a reputation will have a guaranteed source for necessary equipment, but more experienced players would be forced to interact if they wish to make use of any advanced equipment or skills.
Of course, all of this will take considerable time, but hopefully it will come to pass.
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Yes because i knew nothing of Charisma when i made my KRAN character... so yes there should definately be a way to do this... possibly if someone needs \"help\" with something they click a button and when you right click them and it shows the eye and stuff it also shows an H and you click it and it pretty much makes them give you a quest... and if you succesfully \"help\" them then it may raise your cha... BUT then there is the fact that happens with reputation... abuse... the thing is that games can only go SO far in realism... because at a ceratin point mmorpg\'s will HAVE to depend on p2p actions... and then people with greed or lazyness will abuse these factors...
I still see the best solution for this is to develop the player-based economy. Then both reputation and charisma become a natural part of the interaction between players, and statistics need not come into play at all. Perhaps NPC merchants could be restricted to only basic equipment. That way, new characters who have not had time to develop a reputation will have a guaranteed source for necessary equipment, but more experienced players would be forced to interact if they wish to make use of any advanced equipment or skills.
I agree with this... but also as stated in that post... it would take time... but it would be extremely cool and realistic and fun because even if someone has a friend then if he sold the friend something cheap then the merchant would be the one on the lower side... so it would force people to keep it at reasonable amounts... and it would keep items and trias circulating... BUT if a whipe or something bad happened to criple the economy then it would be bad... i see terrorism coming into play there...
SuburbanPlankton i just realised who you were lol! im sorry for being a jerk when i was... i was having a bad day that time(s)...
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
My problem is with the fact that charisma needs to be adjustable. I will grant that all Diaboli are born with a great deal of charisma, and that no matter what their personality, they will always have the ability to make use of it. But I don\'t agree that those born with low charisma are unable to increase it. There needs, at the very least, to be a way to increase one\'s charisma. The problem is that there seems to be no proper way to manage this within the game.
Increase it to what point? To the same max as Diaboli? You can already increase a low CHA character by choosing appropriate options during character creation, and there don\'t seem to be any specific limits set for any race on CHA stat. Besides, why is it a problem that Diaboli will have the best charisma and bargaining bonuses? They already have a disadvantage of being vulnerable to blessed weapons and magical items, so it makes sense for them to have advantages elsewhere to balance that. Or if that is not a problem, then why is it a problem for Kran (since you used them as an example) to have a low CHA? Like I said, you can increase it during character creation. And if you don\'t like the fact that you have to sacrifice other skills, well, that\'s called balance.
Speaking of race balance, it still leaves a lot to be desired right now.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
You\'re wrong. Merchants not selling to \"evil\" characters is:
- unrealistic
- impractical
Only merchants aiming for shady characters would sell their wares to shady characters. Being seen with \"evil\" people scares away potential customers. Unless I don\'t know, you\'d like to go to a shop where gangsters go, but that might be just you.
Unrealistic? Impractical?
Two vegetable-selling shops in a village. To one come rogues, to other they don\'t. Now let\'s think which will see more of the common folk :rolleyes:
But no, being additionally robbed in a shop is such a tempting idea...
Originally posted by zanzibar
You have a poor understanding of what neutrality means. Think about the Kjeld guild from before the wipe -- a good example of a neutral guild. They believed that the world requires a ballance between good and evil. Too much good is a bad thing, and not enough evil in the world is also a problem. That\'s what it truly means to be neutral. A truely neutral warrior may even switch sides in the middle of a battle once one side starts winning.
What the... Let\'s say I\'m poor and my family is starving. In such case I would much rather meet a \"good\" person that will give me money to feed my family than to meet an \"evil\" person who will steal the rest of it.
Saying that isn\'t neutrality is nothing short of a joke. If I am to care about myself, then I\'d prefer people who are ready to help me than those who cause me harm.
Instead of telling me \"You have a poor understanding of what neutrality means.\", show me flaw in my logic.
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Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
My problem is with the fact that charisma needs to be adjustable. I will grant that all Diaboli are born with a great deal of charisma, and that no matter what their personality, they will always have the ability to make use of it. But I don\'t agree that those born with low charisma are unable to increase it. There needs, at the very least, to be a way to increase one\'s charisma. The problem is that there seems to be no proper way to manage this within the game.
You\'re wrong. It is entirely possible to train Charisma. My present character started with level 1 (one), and now has level 65.
Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
Reputation among other players should be a NATURALISTIC THING. There is NO need to turn it into a stat.
I agree 100% on this. Reputation should never be a stat, or a skill, or anything with any sort of number attaches. It should be what it is: a general estimation of the way the community as a whole feels about the person.[/QUOTE]
No no no. As soon as you get a general estimation, it\'s still going to be based on some sort of numerical calculation. By naturalistic, I mean your reputation is your reputation, not some statistic no matter how that statistic is expressed. Said more simply, your reputation is how the other players feel about you, and nothing more. It isn\'t a stat, it isn\'t recorded, it isn\'t attached to your character profile.
Originally posted by SuburbanPlankton
I still see the best solution for this is to develop the player-based economy. Then both reputation and charisma become a natural part of the interaction between players, and statistics need not come into play at all. Perhaps NPC merchants could be restricted to only basic equipment. That way, new characters who have not had time to develop a reputation will have a guaranteed source for necessary equipment, but more experienced players would be forced to interact if they wish to make use of any advanced equipment or skills.
Of course, all of this will take considerable time, but hopefully it will come to pass.
NPCs, as of right now, only sell basic equipment. When was the last time Harniquist sold gold falchions or fire longswords?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
You have a poor understanding of what neutrality means. Think about the Kjeld guild from before the wipe -- a good example of a neutral guild. They believed that the world requires a ballance between good and evil. Too much good is a bad thing, and not enough evil in the world is also a problem. That\'s what it truly means to be neutral. A truely neutral warrior may even switch sides in the middle of a battle once one side starts winning.
Originally posted by Draklar
What the... Let\'s say I\'m poor and my family is starving. In such case I would much rather meet a \"good\" person that will give me money to feed my family than to meet an \"evil\" person who will steal the rest of it.
Saying that isn\'t neutrality is nothing short of a joke. If I am to care about myself, then I\'d prefer people who are ready to help me than those who cause me harm.
Instead of telling me \"You have a poor understanding of what neutrality means.\", show me flaw in my logic.
Everyone wishes to have good things done to them. Your allignment is related to what you do to others. There is the flaw in your logic.
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Alignments are a moral/ethic system. Morals and ethics isn\'t what you do unto others... It is what your world views are (Like chaotic-neutral bard might be no different than a neutral peasant, when it comes to behaving towards others). Sorry, try again.
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Everyone wishes to have good things done to them.
Said that you still don\'t think neutral people would prefer to hang out with \"good\" ones over the \"Bad\" ones?
Wow...
Edit: crap, wrong button :\\
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Originally posted by Draklar
Alignments are a moral/ethic system. Morals and ethics isn\'t what you do unto others... It is what your world views are (Like chaotic-neutral bard might be no different than a neutral peasant, when it comes to behaving towards others). Sorry, try again.
I\'m not sure if your post is serious or not....
You\'re saying that a neutral family will still want good things to happen to them. However, that would supposedly be true for a good family or evil family as well. The important question is: What would those familes to unto others in a given situation?
And your actions are directly related to your \"world view\", so I\'m still not sure if you\'re being serious or what.
Originally posted by Draklar
Everyone wishes to have good things done to them.
Said that you still don\'t think neutral people would prefer to hang out with \"good\" ones over the \"Bad\" ones?
Wow...
Edit: crap, wrong button :\\
I think that allignment in a D&D sense goes beyond who you would want to hang out with. This isn\'t myspace or livejournal or whatever you crazy kids are up to these days. In fact, good characters might want to hang out with evil characters, and evil characters might want to hang out with good characters. They\'re still who they are.
The problem is, people can\'t be put into simple categories like that. The D&D system works, but I think that Planeshift might have the potential to go beyond that. Even further, popularity says nothing about whether you\'re good or evil. There are surely popular people who are evil and unpopular people who are good.
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How about a CHA-only based bargaining skill plus a factorto represent the affinity between merchant alignment and charachter alignment?
Affinity could be as follows (using D&D style alignments):
-All merchants are lawful (they kinda have to be)
For all merchants:
Lawful charachters get -10% to cost (they are certain to pay whats due)
Neutral charachters get no bonus
chaotic charachters pay +10%
Good Merchants:
Good charachters no bonus
neutral charachters pay +5%
evil charachters pay +15%
neutral merchants: no bonuses at all
Evil merchants (think poison dealer or fence):
Good charachters pay +25% (evil buisness is inherintly more risky)
Neutral charachters pay +15%
evil charachters no bonus
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Not all businessmen are lawful. :p
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Oh for crying out loud, I\'m tired of this...
Taken from Wikipedia:
Neutral
\"Undecided\"
A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn\'t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or order vs. chaos. She thinks of good as better than evil - after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she\'s not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.
I\'m done...
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Originally posted by Draklar
Oh for crying out loud, I\'m tired of this...
Taken from Wikipedia:
Neutral
\"Undecided\"
A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn\'t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or order vs. chaos. She thinks of good as better than evil - after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she\'s not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.
I\'m done...
I disagree with that definition because it doesn\'t reflect the \"neutral\" as expressed by kjeld worshippers or the other definitions I\'ve given which are much broader than simple being \"undecided\".
Being neutral does not necessarily mean you are undecided. Just look at Eastern philosophies which say thatgood and evil must exist in the world side by side in order for there to be ballance. Even Christiandom believes that evil must exist in the world in order for the good in the world to be meaningful. If you take this to an extreme, and you start to take ballance and greyness as the goal, then you end up with a kind of neutral allignment which is not reflected, covered, or addressed by labelling neutral as \"undecided\". Really, if you say that neutral simply means \"undecided\" then what you\'re actually saying is that neutral doesn\'t exist. Well, I\'m sorry but there\'s more to it than just that.
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Originally posted by hereticalfaction
How about a CHA-only based bargaining skill plus a factorto represent the affinity between merchant alignment and charachter alignment?
8o
Please, no!
This system SOUNDS quite nice and well considert, yet try to think what this would mean ingame... you\'ld have to stick with a chosen alignment forever, because making the alignment changeable would totaly break this system.
(\"Let\'s see... to get the best price with this smith I\'ll have to set my alignment to lawful stupid...\" )
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Originally posted by Antranianni
Originally posted by hereticalfaction
How about a CHA-only based bargaining skill plus a factorto represent the affinity between merchant alignment and charachter alignment?
8o
Please, no!
This system SOUNDS quite nice and well considert, yet try to think what this would mean ingame... you\'ld have to stick with a chosen alignment forever, because making the alignment changeable would totaly break this system.
(\"Let\'s see... to get the best price with this smith I\'ll have to set my alignment to lawful stupid...\" )
To me, the system does NOT sound nice or well thought-out. There are too many fatal flaws, and all you need is one fatal flaw for it to be a bad idea.
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Well... the worst flaw being that engine alignment is a bad idea to begin with - but that\'s not a discussion to be held in this thread... :D
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well how about we leave alignment out of merchants... because a new person would go to a good merchant and have to pay upped prices... also i know you all will say you\'d rather have good leaders and neighbors... but evil HAS to play a part in this game somewhere... if we drown it out then no \"evil\" people will want to play...
and i cant quite remember what else i was gonna say... crap! it was good too...
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Originally posted by Rage McCloud
well how about we leave alignment out of merchants... because a new person would go to a good merchant and have to pay upped prices... also i know you all will say you\'d rather have good leaders and neighbors... but evil HAS to play a part in this game somewhere... if we drown it out then no \"evil\" people will want to play...
and i cant quite remember what else i was gonna say... crap! it was good too...
You\'re suggesting that outlaw bikers don\'t feel at home when they\'re around other outlaw bikers?
You\'re basically suggesting that low-lifes, deviants, and outlaws won\'t feel at home in sleazy places with sleazy people. Sure, they might not trust eachother or maybe they do trust eachother, hey perhaps there\'s honour among theives! Or honour amony theives guild members, hint hint! I just think it\'s a narrow minded approach to say that every \"evil\" or \"no good\" character is a loner. That\'s really what you\'re saying here. You\'re saying that not only are they disliked or disowned by characters with good reputation stats, but they would also be disliked and disowned by eachother! Bad, bad, bad.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Not all businessmen are lawful. :p
Actually, all merchants rely on a fairly law-abiding and civil society to make the prospect of the merchantile trade possible. Even modern day illicit Arms dealers can only operate so long as currencies are reliable, few shipments are hijacked, inventory can be wharehoused without being subject to too much pilferage, the banking and credit system is stable, etc...
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Originally posted by hereticalfaction
Originally posted by zanzibar
Not all businessmen are lawful. :p
Actually, all merchants rely on a fairly law-abiding and civil society to make the prospect of the merchantile trade possible. Even modern day illicit Arms dealers can only operate so long as currencies are reliable, few shipments are hijacked, inventory can be wharehoused without being subject to too much pilferage, the banking and credit system is stable, etc...
Ok.... but not all businessmen are lawful.