PlaneShift
Support => Technical Help: IN GAME bugs (after loading world) => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on September 15, 2005, 10:39:27 pm
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This bug needs to be fixed, its gotten very annoying with everyone, especially the guild knights, using this bug in all of their duels...
They call it \"The Drive By\" and say its strategy, but its a little bug that gets more annoying every day...The trick is to run right through your opponent, and right before running through them, press the attack button, and good job, you made them too far away to attack, and you killed them using the wonderful distance bug!
I\'m surprised no ones reported this yet...I mean even the RPers should be annoyed by this, running through someone and striking air isn\'t very roleplay-ish ;P
I think to fix it, the distance point to be able to attack an NPC and Player should be taken away, the point be right next to your back, so it won\'t be so stretched out and able to do this drive by thing...That might solve it, but its becoming an issue here, so please try and get this fixed...(I sound like a begger don\'t I? ;P)
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why are you always having to complain about other guilds... you are all like waaa this guild did this and this other one did that.
and im not thinking its a bug, its called tactics like jousting! and on your strikning air, ever though people could miss?
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I saw it yesterday and it ain\'t just the guild knights, blame your own guild, cause we ain\'t the only ones who do it. It really is commen sence for a duel, your just sad cause Necro killed you with it
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How about dont accept/challenge... problem slved for me... no one has used that bug at all on me... of course thats because i have it on auto decline...
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With the psycotic ammount of damage newer weapons give, all duels are decided by who hits first. The person with the better timing wins...
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I am not sharing your opinion all : I think what he said was an interesting point. First its unrealistic but moreover it everytime annoy me while i am fighting a mobs.
I attack an ennemy to enter stance then i go through him to start battle and at this time game say \"you are too far away to fight\" and the mobs start to fight me while I am trying to double click... really it isnt your best work Xordan!
Anyway, to come back to his thread : I think its a strategic way ... but its totally unrealistic... and moreover its really anti rping... so its against the ideas of ps.
But everyone is right when everyone said : \"YOU DONT HAVE TO ACCEPT CHALLENGES!!!\"
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fken:
My post was merely a statement of fact, without opinion... :P Yes, I agree that many stupid things are at play here. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Drey
why are you always having to complain about other guilds... you are all like waaa this guild did this and this other one did that.
and im not thinking its a bug, its called tactics like jousting! and on your strikning air, ever though people could miss?
Well, Sirunie is the one who uses it the most ;P Just pointing it out, but its not really about the guilds...Its just annoying that every time I duel theres always some coward who tries to run through me and hit me from behind
And as for declining challenges...Not a chance, I like to duel, but now I know that I should check my opponents movements better before I accept, like Thilele, he always moves back and fourth when hes about to do that little trick, so I know that I need to get him when hes too busy messing with his front and back keys to notice I accepted ;P
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Frankly I think you guys are missing the point. This is an issue that doesn\'t just affect PVP. As it is, it appears the server doesn\'t check the perceived distance on both the server and client side. If it is only going to check one, then the ability to engage the enemy should be granted by that check and not what the server / client calculates.
Here is what I mean:
In great lag, your client has a lot of trouble interpreting where the monster is. However the server knows where it is. The problem is that the server starts the monster attack but the client can\'t attack back because his ability to attack back is determined client side by where he thinks the monster is.
You are experiencing the other side of the problem. They are initiating combat when their client thinks they are within attacking range and then evading / holding you off at a certain distance so you cannot fight back properly (this is how I read the above statements).
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you realize you CAN just run after the guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you dont have to stand there and continue to let him do that.
THINK SMART PEOPLE!!! IF THEY DO SOMETHING YOU DONT LIKE, FIND WAYS TO COUNTER IT!
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In other words, abuse more bugs to combat their bug...Good thinking, I\'ll go right next to Zayek and do this, see what he thinks about it ;P
What that means is, if I do it in front of a GM, I get banned...Or annoyed, and when the other person does it, the GM\'s look right at them and don\'t say a thing...Thats my perspective :/
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Originally posted by Redlig
Frankly I think you guys are missing the point. This is an issue that doesn\'t just affect PVP. As it is, it appears the server doesn\'t check the perceived distance on both the server and client side. If it is only going to check one, then the ability to engage the enemy should be granted by that check and not what the server / client calculates.
Here is what I mean:
In great lag, your client has a lot of trouble interpreting where the monster is. However the server knows where it is. The problem is that the server starts the monster attack but the client can\'t attack back because his ability to attack back is determined client side by where he thinks the monster is.
You are experiencing the other side of the problem. They are initiating combat when their client thinks they are within attacking range and then evading / holding you off at a certain distance so you cannot fight back properly (this is how I read the above statements).
I don\'t think thats the case, I think that the distances are completely messed up...When not lagging, if I attack an NPC, and I\'m almost right next to them, it says I\'m too far away to attack, while the Gladiator (example/dummy NPC) is hitting me...When with player distances, if both are doing it at once, and one is lagging, I think your right...But NPC\'s are just distance bugged...
Now to fix this, I think that Kiern should STOP messing with distances, I remember Drey\'s screenshot of a Gladiator attacking him a meter away, so instead of her always expanding the NPC\'s range and leaving us with about a dagger-sized space between attacking and too far away, she should concentrate on lowering their ranges, while lowering ours, but keeping it about the same distance, so one isn\'t reaching farther than the other...Also this would help pvp\'s, because if both of them dash through eachother, they won\'t have a stretched out distance to produce that bug, and have to stand up and actually fight.....Unless they can press the button at the right time and hit right at the point where they run through you :/
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For those saying that lunging at your opponent and hitting them while running through them at high velocity is unrealistic, I give you an example of when it was used in real war.
Before guns, in the days of samurai, one of the most powerful moves to finish your enemy quickly was to use the Gatotsu technique. Arc you sword above or to the side of your body with your other arm pointing at your enemy. Run at your enemy as fast as you can and before you reach them thrust the sword forward causing a powerful stab to your enemy. When done correctly, it causes major damage and also allows you dodge their attack with your other extended arm.
Also, it seems very reasonable that when more of the stealthier skills are made in game that a player should be able to run right up behind their enemy and give a quick blow while they are unaware of what is happening. After the quick blow the player could then sneak back to the shadows to await the time to strike again. Seems very practical when used with the already in game dagger skill.
As for pvp usage. It was very impractical to just stand their while you and your opponent hack away at each other. Take modern boxing for example, you don\'t see each player go to the center of the ring and start giving massive blows to each other until someone is knocked out. Instead they are constantly moving, swerving around each other, looking for the right moment to strike without getting hit themselves.
My point is this, the idea of the hit and run tactic is not a bug in itself as it has been used in fighting techniques through the span of history. What is a bug, is the way the game is currently laid out, as instead of keeping you from attacking and giving the error message, \"you are to far away to attack\", thus kicking you out of the attack mode.
It should instead keep you in attack mode, and when you finally do come into range, then you would start attacking. Pressing the attack button should then be more like telling the game you have the notion or intent to attack something, and if you are too far away, the game you should wait until you are close enough to actually start the damage dealing. This way, a player could select a monster from far distance, push the intent to attack the target button, and when they run up to it and get in range, they would do damage. If they run through it out f range again, then the game would not then kick them out of attack mode as they still probably have the intent to attack it, but the game would then wait until the player moved back in to deal more damage.
This is still pre-alpha, so many combat techniques still probably aren\'t in game yet. Also, I don\'t mean to cause an argument, I just felt I needed to say my views. And finally, sorry about the long post.
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this is also known as slash and dash, its actually a very good technique to use, if you time it right and are lucky enough you can take down an ulbernaut with some determination.
I don\'t see anythign wrong with it, in real life you can run past someone and stab them in the face :|
not that i would
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I have to agree with those who say that this is an example of tactics, rather than exploiting a bug. If you have figured a way to work the system so that you can attack a monster but it does not have the capability of attacking you back, then that is cheating. But if you have figured out a way to use your speed and agility to attack quickly and retreat before your opponent has the opportunity to attack you, then that is an example of superior combat tactics.
With monsters, we do have the problem that none of them move faster than a crawl, which causes this tactic to be too easily employed. If this is changed in the future, the situation may be different. And as for distances, I don\'t think that they should necessarily be shortened across the board. An Ulbernaut, for example, should have a striking range that is significantly greater than any player\'s due simply to its immense size. If this were implemented, and it was able to move at greater then zombie-speed, then techniques such as the one described in this post would become a necessity.
As for PvP, I really don\'t understand how you can complain about a hit-and-run technique. Do you expect your opponents to all stand motionless before you while you wail on them with your sword? Or do you think it might be a bit more realistic if they attempt to hit you without giving you a chance to hit them back?
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Demarthl and Necro used it, and it a pretty good idea for duel
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Maybe, but if this is going to be implimented as an actual attack skill in the future, it shouldn\'t attack the air and damage their opponent, and they shouldn\'t run right through the opponent\'s body, they should dash to the side of them with an extended sword or something....Right now its just a bug, other than an actual strategy...There wouldn\'t be anything wrong with it if it was fixed and actually implimented as a real attack style
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Originally posted by darkw00t
Demarthl and Necro used it, and it a pretty good idea for duel
I think this is abuse of game mechanics in order to gain an advantage over an opponent.
IOW, it is use of player skills, not char skills. But the game is about char skills, not player skills, unlike in an FPS, where the contrary is the case.
Thus, it\'s not acceptable IMO.
The very least thing to be done about this is that you don\'t stop attacking when you leave the distance, but keep waiting for an opportunity, i.e., being within range, to then strike.
Yes, obviously you can set a hotkey for attacking. :rolleyes: That\'s not the point at all.
Superiour tactics? Definitely not. Exploit? At least close. :tdown:
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I agree with SuburbanPlankton, distances should be apropriated for each kind of attack, a moster with big arms or tail should be able to hit you from greater distance than a short necked crawling monster that can only atack with its jaws, but that would also afects players atacks, with greater agility the range of the attacks would incres slightly, and also, a long sword should be able to hit something way further than a small dagger (if handled by the same person)
and back on the \"is it or not an exploit\" topic, I agree with seytra, it does get away from the game reality, as the spirit of the game is to create an alternating reality without any perceiveble conections with ours, using such techiniques would be like \"seeing green code scrolling\", and as far as I know there isn\'t nobody trying to unplug the characters, and not much benefit from actually doing it (from our point of view at least)( not getting into any stranger than fiction kind of story where they would actully exist here, but I digress)
so, if the purpose of the game is indeed what I percieve it as being, this \"tenchinique\" as it is now should be encouraged to not be used.
I believe something like that should only be allowed if
getting inside your atacking just as you get into your attack range would be controled by skills such as agility and the specific attack skill, and 2 diferent persons, handling the same character could do this just as easilly, then I think it would be ok, something like a maximum strike rate based on the skills, in combination with prababiliy of successifull strikes, based on some skills, and strenght of the atck based on skills as well. there would have to be some persistent attack target and state to avoid \"the quickest finger wins the fight\" situations
of course some great level of randomnes in the values unless the char gets godly stats on everything involved
or perhaps something similar to what I described, or even an better idea than that
edit: perhaps some parts of the games should have some slightly human interference, but nothing that a regular person couldn\'t learn within a reasanoble time, and nothing that would require professional level skills, anyone who plays this game should have an equal chance at any kind of such gameplay requirements, and shouldn\'t be necessary to the player to go tetris and get playing 24/7 to perfect such human sided skills.... or somehing like that 8o)
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y\'know what, it\'s pathetic, your looking at this like its a completed game
\'oh it shouldnt just attack the air\'
it\'s a pre alpha tech demo, oyur lucky to have an attack action buddy.
and let me put it this way to you Seytra, I don\'t see how the character is going to run around a treport and cut it to pieces by itself, there HAS to be an amount of player interaction, just because it doesnt suit your taste, doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed.
/endangryrantingmodeandgodanceinsomeflowerpatches
^^
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Originally posted by Demarthl
y\'know what, it\'s pathetic, your looking at this like its a completed game
\'oh it shouldnt just attack the air\'
it\'s a pre alpha tech demo, oyur lucky to have an attack action buddy.
and let me put it this way to you Seytra, I don\'t see how the character is going to run around a treport and cut it to pieces by itself, there HAS to be an amount of player interaction, just because it doesnt suit your taste, doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed.
/endangryrantingmodeandgodanceinsomeflowerpatches
^^
Thats WHY I made this post, since its a Pre Alpha, I\'m reporting a bug that should be fixed, and we\'re coming up with new ways this should work, or just get it fixed forever and not even make it a combat \'skill\' ;)
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Originally posted by TiagoTiago
I agree with SuburbanPlankton, distances should be apropriated for each kind of attack, a moster with big arms or tail should be able to hit you from greater distance than a short necked crawling monster that can only atack with its jaws, but that would also afects players atacks, with greater agility the range of the attacks would incres slightly, and also, a long sword should be able to hit something way further than a small dagger (if handled by the same person)
and back on the \"is it or not an exploit\" topic, I agree with seytra, it does get away from the game reality, as the spirit of the game is to create an alternating reality without any perceiveble conections with ours, using such techiniques would be like \"seeing green code scrolling\", and as far as I know there isn\'t nobody trying to unplug the characters, and not much benefit from actually doing it (from our point of view at least)( not getting into any stranger than fiction kind of story where they would actully exist here, but I digress)
so, if the purpose of the game is indeed what I percieve it as being, this \"tenchinique\" as it is now should be encouraged to not be used.
I believe something like that should only be allowed if
getting inside your atacking just as you get into your attack range would be controled by skills such as agility and the specific attack skill, and 2 diferent persons, handling the same character could do this just as easilly, then I think it would be ok, something like a maximum strike rate based on the skills, in combination with prababiliy of successifull strikes, based on some skills, and strenght of the atck based on skills as well. there would have to be some persistent attack target and state to avoid \"the quickest finger wins the fight\" situations
of course some great level of randomnes in the values unless the char gets godly stats on everything involved
or perhaps something similar to what I described, or even an better idea than that
edit: perhaps some parts of the games should have some slightly human interference, but nothing that a regular person couldn\'t learn within a reasanoble time, and nothing that would require professional level skills, anyone who plays this game should have an equal chance at any kind of such gameplay requirements, and shouldn\'t be necessary to the player to go tetris and get playing 24/7 to perfect such human sided skills.... or somehing like that 8o)
I only read the top of it, but I agree with you. Instead of having a Gladiator hit the length of an ulbernaut\'s arm away, it should just be reduced to the size of their weapon. Same goes with clackers, they shouldn\'t attack farther than their jaw reaches :P
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all in all... if someone has to do these things just to win then they are cowards and weaklings... just confront whatever you are fighting... thats the true way to show off and test your power...
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Thats WHY I made this post, since its a Pre Alpha, I\'m reporting a bug that should be fixed, and we\'re coming up with new ways this should work, or just get it fixed forever and not even make it a combat \'skill\' ;)
It\'s not a bug, just an incomplete way of fighting. get used to it.
and don\'t double post
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Originally posted by Demarthl
and let me put it this way to you Seytra, I don\'t see how the character is going to run around a treport and cut it to pieces by itself, there HAS to be an amount of player interaction, just because it doesnt suit your taste, doesnt mean it shouldnt be allowed.
No, there does not have to be any sort of player interaction. Why? Because, as I stated, the fighting system is based on char stats, not on player stats. This clearly means that the entire fight, including the attack, defense, tactics, whatever, is included in the fighting formulas already. Therefore, if you manually intervene there, you skew the balance. The timing for the weapons is part of that. If it were supposed to have player interaction, there would be no automatical attack, and instead the player would have to press an attack hotkey each time they want to initiate a strike. But alas, once the command is given, the system takes over and fights automatically, so it clearly is an automated process, not an interactive one.
To avoid any such exploitation, I think that, once a fight command is given, it should lock the movement controls, and instead, apart from the combat stances, only allow a \"retreat\" option, after use of which you should not be able to attack that MOB again until it has healed to 100%.
Yes, in the end the char should do the actual dance, as in another game I\'ve seen (NWN, IIRC), but it isn\'t that advanced yet.
Therefore, I maintain that this so called \"player interaction\" is very close to an exploitation of the game system, and as much a display of \"superiour tactics\" as any other cheat / exploit: totally not. :tdown:
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*sigh* so all you want to do is click on button and watch, thats not playing a game is it, its watching an animated video, play means you do it.
ah hell, why am i bothering with you lot
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I agree with Seytra, the way the combat system is set up, it is total automated. You don\'t click to swing your weapon, or block or dodge like many other games. So thusly, you shouldn\'t be able to click a button to move out of range, or do anything else that intefers. Unless of course there was a choce between two modes, automated, and total control, where you would have to click to swing.