PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on October 07, 2005, 09:30:47 pm
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Now, I\'m not flaming or anything (well, yeah...But I know how much you work on this, so I\'ll just leave it at that) but the art in the game looks like someone made a 1D shape, decorated it, and slapped it on the game server and called it Yliakum...I mean, its easy to notice because the trees look like cut-outs, and the roads aren\'t even lined up with eachother, also if you get that glitch where your arm or head disappear, you can\'t see anything inside of you...Because they\'re just shapes, not anything solid.
Good graphics and art is a good aspect to roleplaying, because even if we pretend its real, we would be pretending the ancient town of Yliakum was built by monkeys...
(Like I said before, I know how hard you work on the game and implimented good things, I\'m glad you spend a lot of time on it...But the 3D art is really 1D cuts and pastes...)
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I\'m sorry but how the heck do ya make 1D art?
Is that even possible?
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1D is flat objects, like lines, and some 2D art, which I think are shapes such as squares, etc.
Just attach those together and you get a very weird 3D art :/
Look at an Enkidukai\'s face, if you\'ll notice the yellow spotted part, its like a triangular shape...Just an example
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I don\'t think there is a such thing as 1D art... Lines are 2D, I\'m pretty sure... And graphics have nothing to do with RPing by the way. Besides, this game is worked on when the development team has time to. They are doing this on their free time I believe. I think the art is good. But graphics are the least of my worries right now. Final FAntasy 7 had sucky models and stuff except for the movie sequences, but in my opinion, it is still the best Final Fantasy game there is. PS is still in its Alpha testing i believe, and you can\'t expect it to be really good yet. I am sure the graphics will get better, but you must be patient...
Graphics mean nothing in RPing. In fact, I used to do a lot of message board RPing, and I was quite good at it, and so were the others. The allowed me to visualize what was happening, let me use my imagination. Now an MMORPG is a bit different, but graphics are still the last thing they should enhance. They must make the game work first. I wouldn\'t mind having block people as the characters as long as the gameplay is good, and for right now it is.
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[...] also if you get that glitch where your arm or head disappear, you can\'t see anything inside of you...Because they\'re just shapes, not anything solid.
The heck? What are you expecting to see, muscle tissue and a circulatory system?
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Lol, yeh... Wouldn\'t that be something...
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Originally posted by Farren Kutter
I don\'t think there is a such thing as 1D art... Lines are 2D, I\'m pretty sure... And graphics have nothing to do with RPing by the way. Besides, this game is worked on when the development team has time to. They are doing this on their free time I believe. I think the art is good. But graphics are the least of my worries right now. Final FAntasy 7 had sucky models and stuff except for the movie sequences, but in my opinion, it is still the best Final Fantasy game there is. PS is still in its Alpha testing i believe, and you can\'t expect it to be really good yet. I am sure the graphics will get better, but you must be patient...
Graphics mean nothing in RPing. In fact, I used to do a lot of message board RPing, and I was quite good at it, and so were the others. The allowed me to visualize what was happening, let me use my imagination. Now an MMORPG is a bit different, but graphics are still the last thing they should enhance. They must make the game work first. I wouldn\'t mind having block people as the characters as long as the gameplay is good, and for right now it is.
I know, but its just weird that the roads aren\'t even lined up. I know they do it in their free time, the games in Alpha stage still...But it shouldn\'t have been rushed through and done in about 3 hours...I\'m just going to leave it at that for now
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Originally posted by Karyuu
[...] also if you get that glitch where your arm or head disappear, you can\'t see anything inside of you...Because they\'re just shapes, not anything solid.
The heck? What are you expecting to see, muscle tissue and a circulatory system?
No, but I also don\'t expect it to be empty space, the body models are just hollow, and its also the reason why we can walk through other people...We need the cream filling (by that I mean, not muscle or anything, but just filling...Like at least color the inside of us the same as our outside skin, to have some filling)
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Eh... If we couldn\'t walk through each other, we would have idiots and stupid people blocking important entrances... I believe that has already been explained before somewhere...
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I guess that makes sense...Ok, I guess we could have character filling but be able to walk through eachother....:/
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
No, but I also don\'t expect it to be empty space, the body models are just hollow, and its also the reason why we can walk through other people...We need the cream filling (by that I mean, not muscle or anything, but just filling...Like at least color the inside of us the same as our outside skin, to have some filling)
I am really hard pressed not to question your grasp on the workings of a game engine...
The reason we can walk through each other has absolutely nothing to do with the way the models look. They could be invisible and still not pass through walls.
The real reason is that collision detection is disabled for chars, for the reason Farren stated and because it would just generally be not practical, especially considering the movement system\'s frequent problems and changes.
Furthermore, who cares what a model looks like when it is struck by a glitch? Noone. It would be just as unrealistic and impossible to RP if the char would have a perfectly modelled and animated inside. No head, no life.
Also, the world does have it\'s issues for sure, and the devs no doubt are aware of them, but I am perfectly sure that it took way longer to make it than the three hours you insultingly assumed. If it did, then I am perfectly sure we\'d have the entire first level ingame by now.
Overall I find this thread offensive, and putting it into the wishlist will do exactly zilt to improve PS. Do you think they will just implement some 3D artists or something?
In fact, I can see the 3D devs getting annoyed by this much \"appreciation\" and do other things instead.
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I said I realised they spend a lot of time on it, but the art was a bit ignored...(Notthat exactly, but the meaning) I remember Zayek saying that one of the 3D developers quit the project, and that was a setback in the graphics department...But it can\'t just be left to sit as everything looking like poorly connected squares and rectangles, eventually...For now since its still in Alpha Stage, I don\'t expect it to be done any time soon...But its just a suggestion that it should be tinkered with a bit
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Now, I\'m not flaming or anything (well, yeah...But
ok, go get blender, wings3d, or fork out for Maya or 3dstudio max
learn it by yourself with no help, get stuck repeatedly and cry for hours because you can\'t do something.
read a guide someone made on the net, almost understand it and chance your way into doing it succesfully.
forget what you managed to do and tear your hair out over it.
learn again.
there is a hell of a lot of effort put into even the simplest of all art, this is just utter disrespect towards the entire team, past present and future.
zOMG hey I make models, sure they\'re only weapons everyone has seen before, no one thinks anything of them... but godamn i can\'t even make anything humanoid yet, let alone set up a skeleton for it, and make various animations.
*edit by Karyuu* .. *removes two lines* ... Play nice :/
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A suggestion? You think the development team isn\'t aware of graphical shortcomings, or isn\'t looking for better artists and modelers all the time? Are they shutting down the application process, or not allowing people who have enough skill to improve the game join?
As Seytra stated, this isn\'t a real Wishlist-worthy subject. It\'s just a complaint that things aren\'t \"good enough\" yet, which is something that doesn\'t go on being ignored by those who develop and contribute to the project.
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I am sure they were planning on many of the things people have suggested over and over in this wishlist... The graphics will get better when they are ready to make them better. No need to push them in any way. We are lucky to have such nice people making a game like this and doing it on their time and keeping it free...
Edit: Eh, people posted the same ideas i was thinking... BTW I taught myself 3DS MAX
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Ah, you found the truth! We don\'t have real artists, they are actually robots built by garden gnomes animated by demons summoned by Xordan when he was feeling foolish. Or something like that.
Yup, everything in here is looked over from time to time... either as a reminder, \"oh yeah, we need to work on that next year\", or \"wow, they want that? well, they are looking at the wrong game.\"
There will always be more good things in PlaneShift, and infact we have many more people on the team now then we have for a while.
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Suno, if you want more art, then feel free to start making it right now.
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well your not supposed to see inside yourself anyways... saying oh yes it\'d be realistic if you looked inside yourself and saw color... and also i dont know about the trees being cut outs and all... it may just be that you either have graphics turned down or just a crappy video card...
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also 1d= one dimension which is length a line with no higth or width or length of time...
2d=two dimensions which is length and width but no heigth or length of time...
3d=three dimensions which is length width heigth but no length of time...
4d= length width heigth and length of time...
5d and up i cant remember... i think 5d would be where time can overlap or something...
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exactly, i\'d love to see your art compared to the 3D artists... it takes time and it is frustrating to make good art... the art isn\'t too bad, there may be a few maps errors or whatever but you should try to make this game and all the art by yourself, but the art will come in a future time, at the moment we can just enjoy what we got
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Just for the record, it would be unrealisticly hard and very unneccessary to add \"blood and guts\" inside characters. I\'ve yet to see a single game that have done that, except where youre supposed to see it like open flesh wounds. The thing is, unless you make heavy modifications to the graphics engine there\'s no way you can see an area between polygons, without actual polygons.
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In this thread you have successfully insulted anyone who has ever worked with 3D modelling. If it\'s so damn easy, why don\'t YOU do it? Posting whiny complaints about how things aren\'t everything you want them to be and more RIGHT NOW is not helping anybody. I doubt the moaning and groaning by one person who has not made the least attempt to understand the sort of effort, time, blood, sweat and tears that go into a work of art for planeshift will scare away anyone from the 3D team. Hell, you even fail to grasp the concept of dimensions. There is no such thing as \"1D\" art. One dimension is a line. You can make bloody little art with just a line. 2D is shapes, and everything \"flat\". Why am I even bothering to explain? Read this: dimensions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension) [wikipedia.org].
You say that a bit of the Enkidukai model looks like a triangle. Allow me to tell you something about 3d engines. EVERYTHING is a triangle. Or a strip of triangles. Or many many triangles welded together at their verticies. In OpenGL programming, there is no glCreateCoolCatThing(float size, char gender) function. There are functions to make lines, triangles, and strips of triangles. That MUST be where we get those pesky \"1D cuts and pastes\". CrystalSpace is much more high-level than programming OpenGL functions, but the underlying principle remains. In fact, it may be hard to believe, but your monitor isn\'t a fluid image either! It is, in fact, composed of many many many little \"picture cells\" (pixels), each one containing a red, a blue, and a green element. How\'s THAT for earth shattering news.
Then you say \"everything [looks] like poorly connected squares and rectangles\". If you can\'t tell the difference between a building, a dwarf, and a rectangle, not only do you have no place to complain, but you may also need your head examined. Allow me to demonstrate the marvels of \"poorly connected squares and rectangles\" and \"1D cuts and pastes\". Behold, the screenshot from the upcoming game: \"We Had No Clue What A 3D Engine Was So We Made You A PowerPoint Presentation Instead: Look! Shiny! Edition\".
(http://ps-mc.com/josephoenix/thecoolestgameevar.gif)
You said you can\'t see the insides of your character. \"Double-faces\", faces that are in the model but will never be seen by mortal eyes (except in the case of a rare bug), are not a desirable thing to have on your 3d models. They can cause lag, weird graphical glitches, and generally make your model look unprofessional to someone looking at your work.
Perhaps when you have a portfolio of your own to show, at least a minimal understanding of \"how things work\", and a half a leg to stand on, people will actually give a half a darn for what you have to say.
[/rant]
josePhoenix
Edit:
@Sangwa: If you spent many months working on something and someone dismissed it as the work of a few hours, would you not be insulted? I would, and I think the artists that made this would be too. When I want to comment something, I try to make sure I at least understand the basics of the topic I\'m commenting on. Now, granted, he probably didn\'t know about all that triangle business, and probably won\'t need to. However, what exactly did he think the PS team was doing during the years of development since MB? I refuse to believe that he honestly thought that They waited until december 22 and said \"Oh, let\'s make a few levels so they\'ll have new stuff in CB\". It\'s also rather maddening because I have been trying to learn various 3D modelling programs for a while now, and it\'s not as easy as one would think. Or not think. While I may have been a little harsh, such ignorance, coming from someone who has been around a while no less, is frustrating and a bit maddening. Having been around since March, I would think he would know that PlaneShift is not finished, that people work on it in their spare time, that an ungodly amount of work goes into each section, be it 2D, 3D, Settings, Rules, or programming (or perhaps the new 1D art department?), and that just because something is one way now does not mean it will look the same 5 months from now.
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*Raises an eyebrow*
That\'s some cold scolding. It\'s normal that some people are completly ignorant to the work and time involved in the creation of a game. I think all we should do to such people is explain how hard it is and what they can expect.
Taking their posts as insultuous hardly contributes to anything.
Instead of responding with stingy replies, we should understand that not everyone possesses a vast knowledge or an accurate common sense and reply accordingly.
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Originally posted by Farren Kutter
I don\'t think there is a such thing as 1D art... Lines are 2D, I\'m pretty sure...
You must have missed this lesson of math.
A line is nothing less that a gathering of infinite amount of points along one axis. Shame, shame =P
At other topic, it is true Hydlaa is bigger mess than before CB and the UV coordinates aren\'t really nice done, but to do it correct is really time consuming. Maybe people who can do that are working on somethink else, more important.
P.S. oh my, this topic is growing with geometrical acceleration :D
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Eh, i am in learning support for math, leave me alone...
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Originally posted by odd2k
Just for the record, it would be unrealisticly hard and very unneccessary to add \"blood and guts\" inside characters. I\'ve yet to see a single game that have done that, except where youre supposed to see it like open flesh wounds. The thing is, unless you make heavy modifications to the graphics engine there\'s no way you can see an area between polygons, without actual polygons.
I never said add blood and guts...But I was tinkering with a few open betas, and with a fade-close option implimented on it, you could see inside of yourself, and it had a fairly decent filling (sounds like a strudel...yum) that had the same color as the skin of the character...Or maybe for filling, just make the insides the same as the character\'s description says they\'re made out of (ex. Krans - silicon, Klyros - Reptile-ish slimy skin) not exactly humanoid insides, but it at least adds more reality than having a hollow shell of a body
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Originally posted by josephoenix
In this thread you have successfully insulted anyone who has ever worked with 3D modelling. If it\'s so damn easy, why don\'t YOU do it? Posting whiny complaints about how things aren\'t everything you want them to be and more RIGHT NOW is not helping anybody. I doubt the moaning and groaning by one person who has not made the least attempt to understand the sort of effort, time, blood, sweat and tears that go into a work of art for planeshift will scare away anyone from the 3D team. Hell, you even fail to grasp the concept of dimensions. There is no such thing as \"1D\" art. One dimension is a line. You can make bloody little art with just a line. 2D is shapes, and everything \"flat\". Why am I even bothering to explain? Read this: dimensions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension) [wikipedia.org].
Well, I don\'t know my dimensions :P
Look, I\'m not trying to insult anybody, but it just LOOKS like it was done in a hurry, the roads in hydlaa aren\'t lined up, and also I think since the ground is flat and has nothing under it, thats the reason why we have fall-off-the-end-of-the-world bugs, because we eventually found a sinkhole area in the ground and just fall through...Maybe its not much of a problem with the art, but things need filled in, instead of being flat with nothing underneath...
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I\'d be interested to know what betas you played that contained this feature, as well as what graphics engine they are using. The point, however, is not that we don\'t have this feature, it is that your should not care that this feature is not implemented. With the exception of the bug you mentioned, there is no reason to ever see the inside of a character, and it would be a needless waste of time and gfx card power to do so.
Oh, there\'s also an edit button so you don\'t need to double post. Nifty, eh?
In response to your second post: you are assuming that planeshift works too much like real life does. In 3D modelling, \"hollow\" objects are the norm rather than the exception. You can\'t make an infinite plane, and you can\'t have \"solid\" ground. It\'s just one of those things... ;]
josePhoenix
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Suno, you don\'t know what you are talking about, learn the basics first.
And don\'t double post =P
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You should have quitted it a long time ago, Suno. Can\'t you see they have arguments based on facts while you are merely suggesting with your imagination?
Come on, I wasn\'t expecting total lack of common sense from your part -_-.
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Just trying to help...Gate to Heaven (one of the betas I played) had a very interesting system. The graphics were streaming, and they didn\'t use an FPS system, it was something else...
Since we\'re discussing this, I think that lag is another cause for falling through the floors to the end of the world, just like how someone showed me they can glitch through walls by screenshots and lag while running into it (something like that)
Like I said, I\'m not expecting these to be first on the list, but it just needs a look through and a few fixes here and there, maybe not use an FPS system, since there are thousands of things ingame that lower them
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Originally posted by Sangwa
You should have quitted it a long time ago, Suno. Can\'t you see they have arguments based on facts while you are merely suggesting with your imagination?
Come on, I wasn\'t expecting total lack of common sense from your part -_-.
Its a SUGGESTION, I\'m just saying that the graphics are a bit ignored, not trying to cause a flame war >.>
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There are useful suggestions and useless ones, like your own. It has already been told to you that the Devs are looking for more 3D artists and that they know about the work that graphics currently need. And you keep underestimating the devs.
Your lack of understanding is starting the flame war, whether you\'re trying to or not.
PS: Use the Edit button.
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Normally I try to stay away from posting outside the fanart forum, but I just can\'t help myself...
Suno: By posting this you have successfully done one thing, and one thing only. That being, you have shown *everyone* just how much of a n00b you are (I try to stay away from calling people outside myself that, but this post warrants it). You want characters that are filled...and not made of 1d objects? I hate to tell you, but the PS engine renders exactly the same as UT2k4, HL2, EQ2, WoW, BF2, and just about any other modern game you can think of. Models are made up of 1 dimensional triangles (1 dimensional in that they can be seen on one side, and are invisible on the other). 2d faces are actually 2 triangles face both directions. The reason you can occasionally see the inside of a model is because the camera has what is called a clip plane that clips off any triangles too close to the camera. All games have this problem (I have, on occasion, clipped through ut2k4 character models). The camera code is being worked on, as is the rest of the game. The fact that you want the models \"filled\" with something is just plain rediculous. This would require game engines to use nurbs rather than polys, it would require all models to be made with nurbs, and finally it would require every computer owner on the face of the earth to buy a non-existant graphics card that can render nurbs. It\'s impossible, plain and simple. You just don\'t understand how 3d graphics in general work.
About the quality of the art, keep 2 things in mind (I had 3, I forgot one in my rage). 1) PlaneShift is a free game that will always be free. The developers work on it in their spare time to give us lesser mortals a fun game to play for free. Game companies have teams of, at the very least, 20 people (upwards of in the hundreds), all paid full time to make a game. PS has neither 20 people, nor pay, nor 40 hours a week per person to work on it. 2) PlaneShift is in *pre-alpha.* This is so early in the development stage that the art is basically not even an issue. They have plenty of time before they need to worry about getting more art and content (even though, incidently, they *are* working on getting more artists and content, even this early in the game, which is a treat for us).
In conclusion: go smoke yourself. :)
:emerald:
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Originally posted by Sangwa
There are useful suggestions and useless ones, like your own. It has already been told to you that the Devs are looking for more 3D artists and that they know about the work that graphics currently need. And you keep underestimating the devs.
Your lack of understanding is starting the flame war, whether you\'re trying to or not.
PS: Use the Edit button.
...Look at the title \"We need a real 3D artist\" and no one said they were looking for one (maybe they did in Pheonix\'s long post, but it was full of things I didn\'t need to read...) If I would have known that, I wouldn\'t have made this post...If they\'re looking for one, and know what needs fixed, thats great, end of discussion...
Pheonix, don\'t start up again, read before posting
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How do you know they are being ignored? Maybe they are just not implemented yet...
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Originally posted by ArcaneFalcon
Normally I try to stay away from posting outside the fanart forum, but I just can\'t help myself...
Suno: By posting this you have successfully done one thing, and one thing only. That being, you have shown *everyone* just how much of a n00b you are (I try to stay away from calling people outside myself that, but this post warrants it). You want characters that are filled...and not made of 1d objects? I hate to tell you, but the PS engine renders exactly the same as UT2k4, HL2, EQ2, WoW, BF2, and just about any other modern game you can think of. Models are made up of 1 dimensional triangles (1 dimensional in that they can be seen on one side, and are invisible on the other). 2d faces are actually 2 triangles face both directions. The reason you can occasionally see the inside of a model is because the camera has what is called a clip plane that clips off any triangles too close to the camera. All games have this problem (I have, on occasion, clipped through ut2k4 character models). The camera code is being worked on, as is the rest of the game. The fact that you want the models \"filled\" with something is just plain rediculous. This would require game engines to use nurbs rather than polys, it would require all models to be made with nurbs, and finally it would require every computer owner on the face of the earth to buy a non-existant graphics card that can render nurbs. It\'s impossible, plain and simple. You just don\'t understand how 3d graphics in general work.
About the quality of the art, keep 2 things in mind (I had 3, I forgot one in my rage). 1) PlaneShift is a free game that will always be free. The developers work on it in their spare time to give us lesser mortals a fun game to play for free. Game companies have teams of, at the very least, 20 people (upwards of in the hundreds), all paid full time to make a game. PS has neither 20 people, nor pay, nor 40 hours a week per person to work on it. 2) PlaneShift is in *pre-alpha.* This is so early in the development stage that the art is basically not even an issue. They have plenty of time before they need to worry about getting more art and content.
In conclusion: go smoke yourself. :)
:emerald:
Already heard it from Pheonix...Please read >.>
This is why I try to stay out of suggestions like this, because no one reads and tells me the same thing up to about 50 pages
Also, I don\'t care about outside looks, but we need filling in the ground and in character models, both are hollow and the ground being hollow makes us fall off the end of the world if we lag
Now for gods sake shut up already, I\'ve heard this triangular art comment 3 times now
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*gesticulates wildly* Of COURSE they were ignored! You can tell that just by looking at them! By Talad\'s right arm, those lazy good for nothing developers! Whatever will we do with them?
So you\'re saying if we just eliminate those pesky frames per second we\'ll all have a better gaming experience that can debug code, solve world hunger, and make toast? Just because something does not have an FPS counter does not mean it doesn\'t render frames per second. If it was 3D, it rendered frames per second. There is no engine to my knowledge that does not do so, simply because there is no other way. Unless of course you have some suggestion besides what appears to be marketing drivel from another game that might clear up what this \"non-FPS\" system is?
Another thing.
What in the hell do you consider a \"REAL\" 3d artist?!
You don\'t even bother to read anyone\'s posts because they are \"full of stuff [you] didn\'t need to read\". Maybe you wouldn\'t have so many people wanting to strangle you (metaphorically) if you bothered to read? It\'s a novel concept, I know, but it works wonders once you get used to it. I swear.
Oh, and for heavens sake, use the edit button. It was pointed out to you handily by no less than two people.
josePhoenix (note the o. and the e. and the order in which the o and the e are written.)
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Originally posted by Farren Kutter
How do you know they are being ignored? Maybe they are just not implemented yet...
Was that necessary? >.>
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Eh... Dude, Suno, about what age level are you anyway? Kid, teen, young adult, adult? You seem to have the knowlege of a kid or younger teen to me about the graphics and such, neverminding my poor ability with math and such...
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Originally posted by josephoenix
*gesticulates wildly* Of COURSE they were ignored! You can tell that just by looking at them! By Talad\'s right arm, those lazy good for nothing developers! Whatever will we do with them?
So you\'re saying if we just eliminate those pesky frames per second we\'ll all have a better gaming experience that can debug code, solve world hunger, and make toast? Just because something does not have an FPS counter does not mean it doesn\'t render frames per second. If it was 3D, it rendered frames per second. There is no engine to my knowledge that does not do so, simply because there is no other way. Unless of course you have some suggestion besides what appears to be marketing drivel from another game that might clear up what this \"non-FPS\" system is?
Oh, and for heavens sake, use the edit button. It was pointed out to you handily by no less than two people.
josePhoenix (note the o. and the e. and the order in which the o and the e are written.)
Gate to Heaven had no lag, and I didn\'t see (FPS: 12) written anywhere, the only time it \"lagged\" was loading an area that had a lot of people standing in one spot, with this game, casting a spell lowers FPS by about 30, and we bump non-stop every time we take a step...Also dropping a lot of items in the same spot, and even loading more than 6 areas, its so complicated to run all over the arena picking up waybreads before I can fight in fear that I\'ll crash or something...
Now stop with the half-assed comments, I\'m just trying to suggest, get some better 3D artists, fill in grounds and character models, and try to use a different method of FPS, I don\'t have any need for your comments >.>
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If you post on these forums, expect to get flamed...
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What do you expect from a free pre alpha beta (i dont even know what it is now) if you think the graphics suck, why don\'t you join the team and improve them.. if not stop complaining
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Originally posted by Farren Kutter
Eh... Dude, Suno, about what age level are you anyway? Kid, teen, young adult, adult? You seem to have the knowlege of a kid or younger teen to me about the graphics and such, neverminding my poor ability with math and such...
I have no knowledge of computers in general :P
24, to answer the age question...(Pheonix, don\'t make 4 paragraphs about suggesting something I can\'t do, I know exactly what your going to say) I\'m just suggesting that the people who CAN do it, please look it through and fix a few things here and there, fill things in...Why am I saying this again? Read the other posts :/
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Originally posted by fireofsoul
What do you expect from a free pre alpha beta (i dont even know what it is now) if you think the graphics suck, why don\'t you join the team and improve them.. if not stop complaining
Thats why I said in about 3 posts \"I don\'t expect it anytime soon since its still in Alpha, but just need someone to fill in the grounds at least to fix that annoying fall off the end of the world bug\"
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You need not say it again, we read it every other time you\'ve said it.... We are telling you that it has not been overlooked, it is just the least of the team\'s worries right now...
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If you don\'t like bugs, don\'t play pre-alpha games...
Edit: Sorry for double posting..... eh...
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Right from the thread title, you\'re saying we don\'t have what you consider \"real\" 3D artists. No matter which way you look at that, it\'s a direct insult to current and past developers and contributors who have lent their talents to this project. I think that invites a hell of a lot more flaming than what you\'ve received so far. Feel lucky.
Major closage.