PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: sesmi on October 22, 2005, 05:32:02 pm
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A player market is forming I\'ve noticed. But however, it revolves the ring of the past, which is a rare item, and markets that revolve around a rare item always turn out ugly. I sold one for 100,00 Tria and t was an apparent bargain. that is not how a player market should work.
In the best case scenario the market develops out of it, and the economy is healthy. Worst case scenario (http://www.runescape.com) Is that we get an OOC economy that revolves around lust for rare items *cough runescape cough*
I am happy that a player economy is evolving but I\'m upset that it has to be this way ;(
Another thing: i got muted for saying \"---- for sale!\" (can\'t remember what was for sale) because apparently that\'s how they talk in runescape. but isn\'t that how medieval merchants really talked? Why do i have to be so picky when i\'m just trying to sell things?
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Erm ...wasn\'t the Ring of the Past supposed to be bound with the player and not sellable?
I wouldn\'t know, I didn\'t earn one :/
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Originally posted by hook
Erm ...wasn\'t the Ring of the Past supposed to be bound with the player and not sellable?
I wouldn\'t know, I didn\'t earn one :/
evedently not because I sold one of mine ( I had 2 for some reason)
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I think they should become untradable, but wearable.
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I can only guess: you probably were muted for announcing it too often. This would be spam. Yes, in medieval times people would do that, but given the textual system we have to work with, this method cannot be simply copied 1:1. Instead, other means must be provided, like auction houses (special, closed areas that confince all biding, only those in the area will see it) and ebay-like ingame auctions (in order to compensate for RL time constraints).
Anyway, I think the ROTP issue is more or less completely OOC anyway, since the item itself is completely OOC (and thus shouldn\'t even exist, even if I had one). Yet, I haven\'t seen such an auction myself yet, so I think it is more or less an infrequent thing. What I see, however, is a player driven market for weapons. There are even two stores that I know of: The Hydlaa Outfitters (in Hydlaa) and The Community Of Vaalnor Shop (in Ojaveda). Both seem perfectly IC and perfectly desirable AFAICS, and they work without the highly questionable auction channel.
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Originally posted by Seytra
I can only guess: you probably were muted for announcing it too often. This would be spam.
I said it once. And I was selling a weapon of some kind not the ring.
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Originally posted by Seytra
I can only guess: you probably were muted for announcing it too often. This would be spam. Yes, in medieval times people would do that, but given the textual system we have to work with, this method cannot be simply copied 1:1. Instead, other means must be provided, like auction houses (special, closed areas that confince all biding, only those in the area will see it) and ebay-like ingame auctions (in order to compensate for RL time constraints).
Anyway, I think the ROTP issue is more or less completely OOC anyway, since the item itself is completely OOC (and thus shouldn\'t even exist, even if I had one). Yet, I haven\'t seen such an auction myself yet, so I think it is more or less an infrequent thing. What I see, however, is a player driven market for weapons. There are even two stores that I know of: The Hydlaa Outfitters (in Hydlaa) and The Community Of Vaalnor Shop (in Ojaveda). Both seem perfectly IC and perfectly desirable AFAICS, and they work without the highly questionable auction channel.
Now you\'re contradicting yourself. It\'s in the game, the dev\'s made it, people want it, it has an artificial value, there is NOTHING out of character about it unless you MAKE and DEFINE it as out of character.
I, for one, will define this as completely in character and as part of the planeshift universe. Of course, I can only define it as IC for myself, and if Seytra CHOOSES to define it as OOC then there\'s nothing anyone can do.
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I disagree, Zanzibar. I, for one, can\'t find a way to explain Rings of the Past IC. They were given during the crystal migration, which was OOC. Of course people roleplay with the rings as if they were other objects (e.g., tokens from someone-or-other for such-and-such), but to give them such a ridiculously high value really does mess up the economy. They shouldn\'t be tradeable.
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Karyuu why can\'t you just say that the rings of the past are bestowed by the Gods upon those who have done a service to the Gods
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What service, Watcher? You can\'t present an idea without fully explaining it :)
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Every tale needs an enigma, I will quote from Tolkien in the subject \"And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are.\" The service could be anything.
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Then you presume that everyone who traded in their crystals for tria would do some service for the Gods. My character certainly wouldn\'t ;)
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Just call it an enigma then, all things have enimgas why not this game?
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Because even enigmas have to have some sense of logic to them. Calling \"I just woke up one day and there\'s this ring on my finger, and a ring on the fingers of all those I have known before...\" an enigma is rather silly.
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An enigma is something that cannot be explained
mystery: something that baffles understanding and cannot be explained; \"how it got out is a mystery\"; \"it remains one of nature\'s secrets\"
The ring being on your hand with no logical reason would be an enigma. It may be silly but its still an enigma.
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but who are we to fathom the mind of the gods and the choices that they make. because of their omniscience the rings maybe the solution to a problem that does not yet exsist... or it could be one very long, very involved practical joke. i\'m not sure which yet.
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I feel I need to add my 2 trias. (or maybe a bit more =P)
I think, you haven\'t seen a real ingame economy which involved every item, resource and all what you can imagine. Economy there was ruled by natural laws, because it was mainly player based. I can\'t imagine economy done in better way.
Almost every item could be sold outside player market, but it wasn\'t worth of it in most of the cases. Price of it was then always the same, preset.
Why it wasn\'t worth? Because resources of different kinds to acqure somethink, which would be sold to system, was in most of the cases greater than the value of got item. So one would loose more than earn. So, people was trying to sell every item to somebody else to earn instead of loose. Logicaly the price was greater than when selling it to system.
There was possibility to buy some basic equipment from NPC, but it wasn\'t worth compared to this what was offered at player market.
And it is normal that common items are cheap and rare are extremaly rare. You can do completly nothing about it in true economy.
Ways to sell item: One could sold item in public place, like we do now. Or by auction. (setting of this game is futuristic)
PS is different setting. That is why, I don\'t see auctions done on so great scale. If allowed, it would be too simple and not really in spirit of fantasy-kind-of-medieval setting.
So the best way to sell somethink, is to shout it (in auction channel).
Now, i see why many won\'t like it. They hate, when they see 2 messages every second (it will be this way at some point of development). Even if it is completly IC (same loud mess is on every marketplace), they will say it is OOC, because it is interrupting their roleplaying as they see messages they dont need. That is why we have auction channel! To allow many people send messages in one place and don\'t interupt each other.
Think of the problems which break economy in other games and why they won\'t break this one.
I expect questions if you don\'t get or worry about some part. I could make mistakes, but i\'m describing somethnk what is working. If you are going to say, that some of this is OOC, what i think isn\'t, then i expect you to define OOC and IC. I hope this won\'t turn in very basic discussion, because it is clear what is OOC and what isnt.
Drop the ROTP being OOC topic. There are much more problems to worry about. Maybe it was given by the Hydlaa authorities to all who they think deserved it. World isn\'t fair. Some got it, some didn\'t. Your characters aren\'t supposed to know how it come some poeple have it and others don\'t. So why don\'t treat it as IC rather than complain you didn\'t got it and some individuals are carrying it?
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While I will agree that RS is a bit \"out of whack\", but it is also kind of a true economic setting. There will always be certain items of value (even if they have no true advantage), and in RS those items are sometimes powerful armor, like a Dragon Chain, which costs 30+ million gold! Then their is the white Party Hat that was dropped back in Christmas \'02, it is also worth 30+ million gold. The differnce? The white Party Hat gives you absolutely no advantage, the Dragon Chain does.
The same can be said of \"God\" armors. They cost 5+ million in some cases, but have the same \"stats\" as regular Rune, which is only 200,000.
What I\'m trying to say is that the economy may seem skewed, but people with money will most certainly want to spend it, will they not? And what on earth could be worth 30 million? RARE ITEMS. That is why in the future, the Ring of the Past (which I happily own and will never sell) will be worth millions, unless it becomes non-tradeable.
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Yes but you do realise that broken plates are priceless?
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1) I never said that /auction was inherently OOC. However, what I was saying is that /auction is not the same as market noise, because
- it completely drowns out everything else
- it\'s reach is a lot greater than market noise
Therefore, the /auction channel is ill-suited as 1:1 replacement of market cries.
About the ROTP: I never said that I was unhappy about not having one. I also never said anything about the fairness issue. However I do disagree: things that are IC should be OOC-ly fair as much as possible. Like in, say, tennis, you don\'t just give one player crap equipment. Yes, life isn#\'t fair, but only IC-ly, through RP. OOC mechanics such as CP and such must be fair.
But it can be argued that people \"earned\" the ROTP by doing the crystal grind. I don\'t care. However, this is still completely OOC, and yes, your char must have an explanation how they got the ring. Zanzibar prefers (or CHOOSES, in his words) to just mindlessly \"RP\" just about anything that happens, without looking at anything that might be remotely defined as logic or settings or the devs intent.
Yes, you can say \"the ways of the gods aren\'t clear\". However, they in fact are pretty clear OOC-ly. And this OOC insight needs to be taken into account when you RP, because it\'s part of the settings. So unless the devs come up with an explanation for the ROTP to be actually IC, I don\'t see any way it can be made IC, save declaring it to be something else.
If you were given it by the authorities, then your char would obviously know where it came from, so this doesn\'t work, either.
ROTP: \"Oh, I got that because I kept running after crystal spawn, back in the days when there wasn\'t any fighting and such. Oh, and everyone was wiped, so in fact I am not even the one who did all that.\"
Clearly, the ROTP is an OOC gift to the player, not an IC gift to the char, because the char never did anything to deserve it. I even go so far as to say that giving it to those who kept running after crystals instead of RPing was rewarding PL and punishing RP. But what would an RPer do with an OOC item, anyway.
Mezasa is right, obviously: rare items are what drives the economy, and this is one of the points where almost noone can resist the temptation to break realism and mix IC and OOC. So yes, the ROTP will be worth a lot, as it is already, it seems. Still, this is not IC, so it\'s destructive to the IC economy. And this is why extreme care must be taken to only allow completely IC items into the game and thus into the economy, so the ROTP discussion is in fact a very central one, as it serves as example of how OOC items affect the IC economy, and thus it\'s presence can be regarded as an experiment about the impact of these on the PS playerbase that is supposedly better than the RS one.
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Originally posted by Seytra
1) I never said that /auction was inherently OOC. However, what I was saying is that /auction is not the same as market noise, because
- it completely drowns out everything else
- it\'s reach is a lot greater than market noise
Therefore, the /auction channel is ill-suited as 1:1 replacement of market cries.
About the ROTP: I never said that I was unhappy about not having one. I also never said anything about the fairness issue. However I do disagree: things that are IC should be OOC-ly fair as much as possible. Like in, say, tennis, you don\'t just give one player crap equipment. Yes, life isn#\'t fair, but only IC-ly, through RP. OOC mechanics such as CP and such must be fair.
But it can be argued that people \"earned\" the ROTP by doing the crystal grind. I don\'t care. However, this is still completely OOC, and yes, your char must have an explanation how they got the ring. Zanzibar prefers (or CHOOSES, in his words) to just mindlessly \"RP\" just about anything that happens, without looking at anything that might be remotely defined as logic or settings or the devs intent.
Yes, you can say \"the ways of the gods aren\'t clear\". However, they in fact are pretty clear OOC-ly. And this OOC insight needs to be taken into account when you RP, because it\'s part of the settings. So unless the devs come up with an explanation for the ROTP to be actually IC, I don\'t see any way it can be made IC, save declaring it to be something else.
If you were given it by the authorities, then your char would obviously know where it came from, so this doesn\'t work, either.
ROTP: \"Oh, I got that because I kept running after crystal spawn, back in the days when there wasn\'t any fighting and such. Oh, and everyone was wiped, so in fact I am not even the one who did all that.\"
Clearly, the ROTP is an OOC gift to the player, not an IC gift to the char, because the char never did anything to deserve it. I even go so far as to say that giving it to those who kept running after crystals instead of RPing was rewarding PL and punishing RP. But what would an RPer do with an OOC item, anyway.
Mezasa is right, obviously: rare items are what drives the economy, and this is one of the points where almost noone can resist the temptation to break realism and mix IC and OOC. So yes, the ROTP will be worth a lot, as it is already, it seems. Still, this is not IC, so it\'s destructive to the IC economy. And this is why extreme care must be taken to only allow completely IC items into the game and thus into the economy, so the ROTP discussion is in fact a very central one, as it serves as example of how OOC items affect the IC economy, and thus it\'s presence can be regarded as an experiment about the impact of these on the PS playerbase that is supposedly better than the RS one.
I belive that since this is only a test and RP is sometimes difficult, I only role-play at times.