PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on October 24, 2005, 03:03:18 am
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These penalties are VERY annoying, I challenged someone to a duel, and they declined, but the problem was, I couldn\'t challenge ANYONE for ten minutes, but at the time I didn\'t know this...So when I challenged someone DIFFERENT, I got killed, and lost 10 advisor points...
Especially being an Enkidukai, this is completely unfair, Not only do I lose the points, but I have to walk back to Hydlaa from Akkaio now, for a very ignorant reason...>.>
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New rules :)
try reading 0.3.012 ready. by Talad, thats why he posted :))
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Out of curiosity, is there a pop-up explaining these rules? I think that while potentially annoying, a pop-up explaining the rules after a level 2 violation would be a good thing. Most people RPing duels should have agreed to them before hand (in tells) anyway, so this shouldn\'t affect most people.
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Won\'t effect -most- people, but what about the people it does effect? One of the many defects to being an Enkidukai...
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Won\'t effect -most- people, but what about the people it does effect? One of the many defects to being an Enkidukai...
No, that\'s one of the many defects of being an OOC PKer.
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quote form server ?
* Re-wrote invite spam-blocker:
- Now only triggered on declines, so as to not block legitimate invites.
- Penalties now increase with each decline:
1) 1 min lockout
2) 5 min + warning
3) 10 min + 10 advisor point fine + 10 duel point fine, if duel spam + death
4) 30 point fine(s) + death + kick from server
- Penalties expire with gameplay time, and can be lowered by getting an accept from a player with no penalties and a enough advisor points.
- Penalty level is saved to the player\'s account entry in the database, so repeat offenders can\'t escape it. (relog resets to 3rd level).............
* Exiting the death realm now spawns you at your racial spawn point. ?
I see this as the possible extinction of a race. By trying to solve a spam problem. I am not disagreeing with these changes but it is unfare to the Enkidukai race that they would have to travel all that distance again because they went to death realm. As we all know there is not much to do at their spawn point. To be fair everyone should be spawned at the Enkidukai spawn point. Also notice the penalties and what they realy mean. To me not much so I lose advisor points and duel points. Hmm, I dont have any now, in fact my duel points are negetive and I dont use /advisor to help char. So I go to death realm and have -advisor/duel points and need to relog if at penalty 4 to set back at penalty 3. Boy does that every hurt me.
Just my 2 trias worth. O, by the way does this mean that the refuse all invites is no longer available.
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Refuse all invites option is definitely still available for use.
In time, all of the different races will have vastly different spawn points. The Enkidukai city was created as a first major \"race\" center, so they get to enjoy a far-away spawn first. Fear not, others will follow ;) Akkaio isn\'t a dead city at all - many players are beginning to migrate there, set up shops, and enjoy a lot of RP that doesn\'t suffer from many of the problems that beset Hydlaa - influx of OOC chat, clueless newbies, and (remains of) plaza duels.
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There should be a max of 3 duel invites (accepted or not) within 5 minutes, and this is quite unfair to Enki\'s but i kind of see a reason for this
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It\'s not unfair to anyone. There\'s no reason that you should be killed if you aren\'t sending out multiple duels without warning or reason.
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There is problem in this new rule. Some certain person who don\'t challange others, won\'t see it, simply because he won\'t test. =P
Example:
Person A have personal reason to kill person B \"I challange you! Prepare for death\"
Person B declines \"I will call guards if you try somethink on me!\"
Then person B realizes that he isn\'t that poor fighter comparing to the offender \"But afterall... lets see whos better. \" Also \"ooc: You Challange me, because you wanted to fight\"
person A \"So be it!\" Person A cant challange B, because of weird rule which magically won\'t let him to do what he want.
Additionally Suno says, that if one person decline your challange, you will be punished for all challanges to all other people, so:
Person A and B takes part in dueling tournament. Few fights are happening in the ame time. It hapens that A and B has just won a duel and the next fight will be beatwen them. They have to wait few long minutes, before they can fight. Why they have to wait?
Additionally mistakes happens and one can decline by mistake/ challange wrong player and so on. You will ask: how it is possible? Answer: because of human mistake.
If I was going to propose some solution for challange spam. I would solve this in IC way, or OOC which dont inerfere in RP. current OOC solution, surely does interfere.
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In answer to Nikodemus
I blame all players how run around challenging all and sundry for the new rules.
As for your little Example: challenge one if it had been in chat rather than auto problem solved, so the lessen to learn hear is talk first.
Second point: you would have to rest in real life before fighting again so not unreasonable to expect to wait before fight begins.
Third point: Yes mistakes happen but a few minutes wait can fly by if you chat instead of just standing there.
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Quote from server\'s main page:
* Re-wrote invite spam-blocker:
- Now only triggered on declines, so as to not block legitimate invites.
- Penalties now increase with each decline:
1) 1 min lockout
2) 5 min + warning
3) 10 min + 10 advisor point fine + 10 duel point fine, if duel spam + death
4) 30 point fine(s) + death + kick from server
- Penalties expire with gameplay time, and can be lowered by getting an accept from a player with no penalties and a enough advisor points.
- Penalty level is saved to the player\'s account entry in the database, so repeat offenders can\'t escape it. (relog resets to 3rd level)
...
* Exiting the death realm now spawns you at your racial spawn point.
Please note, that these are 2 separate things. I did the spam-blocker, someone else did the spawning. If you get penalized for spamming and don\'t like where you get sent, tough.
Now, about the whining:
I expected this. But, simply put, you should be using your words and not the /challenge command. ASK FIRST. Say something like \"I challenge you to a duel\", then after they accept use /challenge. Don\'t just go around challenging everyone you see. That\'s kind of the point.
There is a warning sent onscreen in red and to the chat window at penalty #2. If you need specifics on what the penalties are for you to consider stopping, you\'re probably one of the people I made this thing for.
On the subject of penalties:
To get to the point at which you get penalty #3, you need to be declined for an invite 3 times recently. Frankly, if you were just spam inviting and everyone accepted, that would be allowed. If you\'re up to level #3, try not challenging for a while... it will expire with gameplay time. Specifically, if you don\'t challenge at all within the lockout time for the next level up, you\'ll be automatically dropped down one penalty level on your next invite.
example: At level #3 (just had #2, next penalty is #3), wait 10 minutes to invite, you\'ll be bumped down to #2. Of course, if it\'s a decline, it\'ll go right back up.
And yes, the spam-blocker no longer cares who you\'re inviting. It only cares about recent declines. That was a major flaw in the old one, because you could just keep spamming new people.
Edited to add:
Level expiration after having penalty #3 is after half an hour of gameplay time, btw.
About the following comments:
Quote #1: Originally posted by Nikodemus
Person A have personal reason to kill person B \"I challange you! Prepare for death\"
Person B declines \"I will call guards if you try somethink on me!\"
Then person B realizes that he isn\'t that poor fighter comparing to the offender \"But afterall... lets see whos better. \" Also \"ooc: You Challange me, because you wanted to fight\"
person A \"So be it!\" Person A cant challange B, because of weird rule which magically won\'t let him to do what he want.
Quote #2: Originally posted by Nikodemus
Additionally Suno says, that if one person decline your challange, you will be punished for all challanges to all other people, so:
Person A and B takes part in dueling tournament. Few fights are happening in the ame time. It hapens that A and B has just won a duel and the next fight will be beatwen them. They have to wait few long minutes, before they can fight. Why they have to wait?
Quote #3: Originally posted by Nikodemus
Additionally mistakes happens and one can decline by mistake/ challange wrong player and so on. You will ask: how it is possible? Answer: because of human mistake.
Quote #4: Originally posted by Nikodemus
If I was going to propose some solution for challange spam. I would solve this in IC way, or OOC which dont inerfere in RP. current OOC solution, surely does interfere.
The solutions for #1, #2, and #3 is to simply have the person not in the lockout issue the /challenge command. If the lockout was due to an honest mistake, it\'s easily remedied. But in all likelihood, it would only be the 1 or 5 minute lockout, because I don\'t see \"honest mistakes\" happening more than once or twice.
As for #4: Invite spamming is most certainly OOC, so thus the solution must be. If you\'re declined enough to complain about these penalties, you have nothing to do with RP. Deal with it.
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These penalties are VERY annoying, I challenged someone to a duel, and they declined, but the problem was, I couldn\'t challenge ANYONE for ten minutes, but at the time I didn\'t know this...So when I challenged someone DIFFERENT, I got killed, and lost 10 advisor points...
Especially being an Enkidukai, this is completely unfair, Not only do I lose the points, but I have to walk back to Hydlaa from Akkaio now, for a very ignorant reason...>.>
Maybe you shouldnt be a challenge spammer then.
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DaveG:
Thank you for detailed explanation.
As i understand, one can continue to challange all the time, as long as his/her challanges are accepted.
Also, when someone decline, the challanger can still challange people as long as they accept, but for next decline are penalties.
That is good and don\'t spoiling that much IC solution.
There shouldn\'t be time waiting when both sides agree on fight. By this the 2 situations i descriped are possible.
I only wonder why Suno wrote that he couldn\'t challange anyone. What mean, that when he challanged someone, the challanged person didnt even got popup yesno to confirm or decline.
That isn\'t good solution.
I rather think that Suno has forgotte to mention some details, so i believe you DaveG. Will have to test someday.
Correct me please if i got somethink wrong.
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In short .. I like those new rules and since I never make challenges unless the roleplay requires fighting with another player I sure won\'t be bothered by them.
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You know, I don\'t bother about these that much too as i don\'t random duel. But there are these very rare situations when you want to do somethink IC and suddently you can\'t, because of some rule which was going to stop OOC behaviour, but nobody found out that it is harm to IC in some situations.
Sure we could ignore all this what isn\'t problem for us, but developing a game one have to think about everybody.
It is like: I don\'t fight with other players at all, so lets permit it. It isn\'t problem at all, my char don\'t fight.
People tend to write OOC this what they would do IC. So they wan\'t to OOCly permit this what they dont need IC\'ly making harm in OOC way to roleplaying IC people.
That is a mayor problem.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
In answer to Nikodemus
I blame all players how run around challenging all and sundry for the new rules.
As for your little Example: challenge one if it had been in chat rather than auto problem solved, so the lessen to learn hear is talk first.
Second point: you would have to rest in real life before fighting again so not unreasonable to expect to wait before fight begins.
Third point: Yes mistakes happen but a few minutes wait can fly by if you chat instead of just standing there.
Thats the problem right there, I don\'t run around challenging people, I challenge people who
A. Annoy me
B. IC reason with someone else randomly pking
C. A fun duel with someone IC or OOC
Now, I had challenged someone earlier because they kept running around Hydlaa like a complete moron, and a few minutes later me and Keyaz went to the magic shop, someone entered and I asked if they wanted to have a fun duel. Well, when I challenged them, I was somehow \"killed by Laanx\" and sent to DR, so I get to have a fun little trip to Hydlaa >.>
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Suno_Regin: You challenged somone after being declined 3 times. That\'s 3 times within 1+5+10=16 min.
After a decline, you must wait until expiration of the penalty window to challenge. In other words, you are penalized for trying to invite again directly after a decline. The first 2 penalties are just lockouts. The 1st being only a minute, and actually less than it was before. The second is the 5 min in the old system.
Let me simplify this even further:
After a decline, the lockout goes into effect. If you invite again within that lockout, you get whatever (if any) fine is for that level. If you invite after the lockout is over, all is normal.
The level expires with gameplay time and can be lowered on accept from a reputable player. (I did some voodoo with the accepter\'s spam level and advisor points; I don\'t remember what it is off-hand)
You can always accept invites.
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One small point does this:
(- Penalties expire with gameplay time, and can be lowered by getting an accept from a player with no penalties and a enough advisor points.)
mean the player how accept with the advisor points loses them to the challenger.
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What I don\'t get, is that I don\'t even remember a second challenge, I think theres a bug if someone uses auto-decline, I never saw a warning or anything, just instant death on my \"third\" challenge
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r.guppy: There\'s no transfer of points; it\'s a fine. The advisor points of the accepter is just used to figure out if they\'re a \"reputable\" enough person to warrant lowering the challenger\'s level. AKA, it\'s not some other spammer accepting. (to prevent 2 people from cheating by intentionally lowering eachother\'s level)
Suno_Regin: Yes, I think that\'s probably what happened. But it\'s not a bug. If someone has auto-decline on, they\'re trying to ignore challenges. They\'re still declining to duel. You still challenged someone who did not want to duel. And no, it wasn\'t death on your third challenge. You had 3 declines, so that was your FOURTH challenge.
And as a side note: I put in the execution for the only real reason to execute someone: to get rid of them. On death you\'re sent somewhere other than next to the one(s) you\'re pestering.
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Thank you for prompt reply, that puts my mind at rest, thanks.
:))
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I can understand that, but instead of making a 10 minute limit, you should keep the penalties, but not restrict 10 minute challenges, because I tried to challenge someone who annoyed me, they declined, at the magic shop I asked someone if they wanted to fight, they said yes, I send the challenge, got killed by laanx...I think he might have had auto-decline on, and just forgot to turn it off...I guess its a good way to keep duelers out, but it doesn\'t take in to concideration each situation people might be in