PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: allgar on October 26, 2005, 04:07:54 am
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so what do you all think of the hurricane in florida lately?
also have you noticed the world has been haveing VERY deadly natural disasters? ex: the tsumani a few yers back, the 3 hurricanes that hit florida last year, hurricane katrina, ect.
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I know plenty of people who made it through Wilma just fine. However, I would like to state my opinion on these people that blame FEMA and the Government for these disasters; well, if theres a hurricane coming, and you\'re waiting for the government to tell you to get out, then you\'re an idiot. Plain and simple.
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Originally posted by Shami
However, I would like to state my opinion on these people that blame FEMA and the Government for these disasters; well, if theres a hurricane coming, and you\'re waiting for the government to tell you to get out, then you\'re an idiot. Plain and simple.
No kidding. But Bush is still a dumbass and the old fema guy that quit was appointed by the president and he was just a friend of Bush\'s so he got his job like that.
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Your argument has no grounds whatsoever. Or, rather a statement than an argument I guess. Bush is not an idiot by any means, but most of his problems are personal. And being appointed isn\'t that easy either.
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Originally posted by Shami
And being appointed isn\'t that easy either.
Except if you are a friend or relative of the Bush family. ;)
Originally posted by Shami
Bush is not an idiot by any means
Ha :tongue: you said that because you wanted us to have a good laugh, didn\'t you?
I could write down a lot of quotes by G. W. Bush which show that he is either silly or stupid or even both. Here are just a few examples:
\"I know that the human being and the fish can coexist peacefully.\"
(The Washington Post, October 1, 2000)
\"I think if you know what you believe, it makes it a lot easier to answer questions. I can\'t answer your question.\"
(in response to a question about whether he wished he could take back any of his answers in the first debate ? Reynoldsburg, 4 October 2000)
\"It\'s amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity, and incumbency.\"
(June 14, 2001, to G?ran Persson, unaware he was still on live TV)
\"I think war is a dangerous place.\"
(Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003)
\"I\'m also not very analytical. You know I don\'t spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things.\"
\"I\'m the master of low expectations.\"
(Aboard Air Force One, June 4, 2003 (both quotes))
\"As you know, these are open forums, you\'re able to come and listen to what I have to say.\"
(Oct. 28, 2003, Washington, D.C.)
\"It\'s not a dictatorship in Washington, but I tried to make it one in that instance.\"
(New Orleans, Louisiana, Jan. 15, 2004)
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Okay. Now tell me where anything that shows that he is unintelligent, because none of those quotes show that.
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in the large scale of natural disaters that have happened in this year alone i hardly think this hurricane even comes on the radar....
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Originally posted by allgar
ex: the tsumani a few yers back
Don\'t you mean the one that occured less than one year ago?
Anyway, some may say the hurricanes might have to do with the recent Gulf Stream problems.
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Originally posted by Shami
Okay. Now tell me where anything that shows that he is unintelligent, because none of those quotes show that.
Because all of the above quotes, along with so many others, demonstrate a low level of apreciable intelligence, limited thinking before acting/speaking, and inability to convey one\'s self comprehensibly. All of which would quite easily show how Bush is an idiot.
Of course any moron who cannot pronounce a word properly after having been corrected so many times is an idiot in my book.
Then again there is the fact that he actually believes -- or believes that the American public are such idiots as to believe -- that a war against a system of ideals can actually be won.
Of course there is the fact that after spending so much money, and eradicating so many groups, on the so called Homeland Security, it could not be demonstrated as useful or successfully administered when Americans first found need of it. Namely Katrina. The main applicable function actually relevant at any given time was the ability to respond to disaster situations. They failed.
It is easy to demonstrate that Bush is an idiot. On the other hand, there is little that he has done that can be appreciated as having been the result of his actions or leadership.
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Is this thread about Wilma, or Bush..?
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nuke-ya-lerr
*cringe*
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Originally posted by Shami
Okay. Now tell me where anything that shows that he is unintelligent, because none of those quotes show that.
Dude, have you seen farenheith 911?
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Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
Dude, have you seen farenheith 911?
I\'m sorry, but that\'s a bit slanted in the other direction. Not exactly a bipartisan look at how Bush has been running things, you know. Not to mention Michael Moore doesn\'t exactly have a great track record with his \"documentaries.\" I saw the film, too, but I don\'t take it as gospel - it\'s just another way someone chose to look at things.
Originally posted by Draklar
Is this thread about Wilma, or Bush..?
Oh, it started out about Wilma...I guess everyone just misread the title. hurricane wilma / bush sucks
Don\'t you see the resemblance? :rolleyes:
~Indi
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Yes, there have been much disasters this year. Tsunami, Florida Hurricanes, Katrina, Earthquake in Pakistan (millions dead) gov is telling less number of deads, and now Wilma.
The world is gone crazy, evolution created us, revolution is destroying us now.
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Originally posted by MaidenIndigo
Oh, it started out about Wilma...I guess everyone just misread the title. hurricane wilma / bush sucks
Don\'t you see the resemblance? :rolleyes:
It was about natural disasters in general, Wilma being the lead in. :)
Unless Bush is a robot, clone, or is in fact the illusory product of a nation\'s fear, then he qualifies as a natural disaster. Just look at how many have died as a result of his actions. Disastrous.
Perhaps the discussion was not about natural disasters at all, but about mindless climatic occurrences. :rolleyes:
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Natural disasters are those not caused directly by human beings.
In other words,
\"any event or force of nature that has catastrophic consequences, such as avalanche, earthquake, flood, forest fire, hurricane, lightning, tornado, tsunami, and volcanic eruption\"
Bush isn\'t one of those.
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Taking sound bytes out of anyone in the public light can be used to make a person look just about anyway you want them.
Bush\'s presendency will come to term very soon. My wish is that the next elections will be decided on issues of substance, not on minor things like how stupid the president looks on TV.
You can kid yourself all you want but as long as we need billions of gallons of oil from Middle east we will be involved in their politics and most have a substantal number of troups in the area.
Bush did not start this. For those of you that can not remember what life was like before GW Bush was in office, you should Google Jimmy Carters presidency.
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*Points a Finger at the rest of the world on behalf of Australia*
If it wasn\'t for Australia pouring millions of dollars into countries hit by huricanes/natural disasters you guys you be bust! :P.
anyway what would happen if WE got hit by one? would you guys come rushing to our cause?
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Oh everyone knew I had to post here as well :P. I have to say how I feel before this thread is closed. Bush is an idiot. Thankfully many people now see it and his approval rating hit 37% what two weeks ago :D. Which makes me quite happy. Im not even going to get into all the things I dont like that he has done: Iraqi war, No child left behind act, the patriot act, raising his own and congresses salaries, and gas prices. There are too many things to name. I just wish it was still the good ole days with President Clinton :D... only thing people have on him is that he created on his wife with an ugly wench :P (and sorry monica is you read this). But ill play nice for now, he is in his last term and then we will have 1 fewer idiot to discuss daily, unless he somehow changes the law allowing himself more terms in office :(.
Edit: Verideon: well it depends, got oil :P
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Originally posted by allgar
so what do you all think of the hurricane in florida lately?
also have you noticed the world has been haveing VERY deadly natural disasters? ex: the tsumani a few yers back, the 3 hurricanes that hit florida last year, hurricane katrina, ect.
Yes I have noticed and it is a terrible thing :( I wouldn\'t be surprised if the world blew up tomorrow. Hey you never know Bush just might want to be the one to have that honor...ha ha ha *joke* and incase no one read that..... again *JOKE*
Seriously it sucks that many people are dead or suffering form these hurricanes.
/me crosses her fingers and prays for the horrible weather to end
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So Val, all you remember about President Clinton was the Monica incident? And you call yourself a political science major?
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No what I was saying is the only real dirt on Clinton was the affair.. everybody forgot the good things he was doing. Unlike Bush where everyone has 1 good thing to say (maybe) and 10 bad things.
Edit: and what happened with Wilma.. so much Hype and Im not hearing much about it.
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Originally posted by Valbrandr
Edit: and what happened with Wilma.. so much Hype and Im not hearing much about it.
Slightly off-topic (not about Bush and all), but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Wilma
Edit: Seriously though, aren\'t you people getting bored of arguing about Bush? It\'s like every once in a while some discussion has to turn into that.
- How was your stay in USA?
- Bush sucks.
- Can you buy some cooking oil?
- Bush sucks.
- Do you like french fries?
- Bush sucks.
You know what? You people suck >:/
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Originally posted by Draklar
You know what? You people suck >:/
And ever since I moved off for college I have to hear this ALL THE FREAKING TIME. Like, in real life format, even! I\'m way more sick of it than you are, but by now I\'m used to it. XD
I\'ve witnessed more sit-ins and camp-outs and marches than you\'d care to imagine... T-T
And yeah, back to Wilma...I just think the world is ending. Where are those four horsemen, anyway? I\'ll bet that one is getting drunk again...
~Indi
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Bush is a total f%$k head. *i\'m not scared of any American Goverment Agents bursting into my house and beating the hell out me then taking me to their stupid prisons. I\'m not saying Americans are stupid (well not at the moment) but well \"most\" of my msn contacts would know the thing at the moment about me and the Americans.
/me remembers someone that had a Sig with something about bush being racist and stuff :P
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Originally posted by Draklar
Is this thread about Wilma, or Bush..?
Some might say it even does not matter that much.
Now we can argue on what is the bigger catastrophe: hurricane Wilma of Bush\'s pesidency. :P
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Originally posted by Thoronador
Now we can argue on what is the bigger catastrophe: hurricane Wilma of Bush\'s pesidency. :P
Not the most pleasent of jobs, but one could do a bodycount of the effects of either...
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Originally posted by Draklar
Edit: Seriously though, aren\'t you people getting bored of arguing about Bush? It\'s like every once in a while some discussion has to turn into that.
- How was your stay in USA?
- Bush sucks.
- Can you buy some cooking oil?
- Bush sucks.
- Do you like french fries?
- Bush sucks.
You know what? You people suck >:/
Indeed...every knows the guy is a retard what is there to discuss? we all know we all dont need any more debate on why he sucks insted how about using the topic for its name rather then a dry husk to swing more \"i ha7ez the USA cause it sux olololol!\"!!!1\" stuff around
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My GOD! Could you guys try and stay on topic once in a while. Every discussion about world events has to come back to the USA\'s President. I sincerly doubt that he made the hurricanes, Earthquakes, Tsunami... Since he (more then likley) did not, I fail to see how he ties into any discussion about Natural Disasters other then failed or botched releif efforts. Which I have yet to see brought up in this discussion.
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My brother is still trapped in Cancun. Pretty sucky there he sais. But then I told him not to honeymoon in the gulf this time of year.
At last count they only had ten dead I think. Pretty good numbers in my oppinion considering it made landfall as a Cat 4 and then stalled out for what, like 26 hrs?
Florida can blow off if they want to whine about it. They got hit by a Cat 2 that sliced through the entire state in what, 4 hrs?
Pretty wicked hurricane though.
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Originally posted by XpYtZ
I fail to see how he ties into any discussion about Natural Disasters other then failed or botched releif efforts. Which I have yet to see brought up in this discussion.
reread the 2nd and 3rd posts. :)
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I am sure over the next year the pre election political hurricane will become a cat 5 slogan spewing nightmare.
As far as I am concerned the last 16 years have been a catastophic falure on the part of the White House. I hope the next President learns a few lessons. Lessons like...
1) Presidents should not get vacation time. They are on call 24/7 365, so what it the point anyways?
2) Presidents should be at least as good as the weather person at public speaking.
3) Presidents should not have nick names.
4) Presidents should not have \"sexual relations\" with any members of their staff, or guest or pets at the White house.
5) Presidents should not be blamed or (given credit) for anything other than what they are dirrectly responsible for. Idealy this would be holding cogresional spending down and maitaining foreign relations.
6) If the president does a bad job, He (or she) should be impeached, and if he is not the congress should be held to the fire as well as the president.
7) When some crack pot makes a bigillion dollars off of some fake-u-mentary, they should be shut down. I know, free speach, blah, blah, blah. But when you make gillions off of your free speach, it is no longer just stating your opinion, it becomes a scam. The presidents image is our image, we all need to protect this. Like it or not the president is elected. Once in office we should do everything possible to make the president and ourselves look good. If a scandle is found to be true, the president should be locked up, if not those responsible for the alligations should be punnished, and retractions should be issued by the media.
-- ok I think I have gotten most of my angst out. Enjoy your Bush bashing athon!
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Okay, Valbrandr. Now I can call YOU an idiot. The Iraqi war? Sure, it was wrong, maybe even full of government lies; but we all know what Saddam did to those people was inhumane. Think about it from their point of view: If they chopped your hands off for stealing, raped you for other crimes, etc, what would you want? Would you want to have those things to continue to happen to people? Would you want your government to spend billions on underground shelters among other things for your own prime minister? I agree, it was wrong to go and change a way of life that has existed for thousands of years, but what they do is just not right.
And gas prices? Why the hell are you blaming that on Bush? Thats the PEOPLES problem; its not the fact that we don\'t have oil, because we have plenty. Its just that all of the refinerys for that oil were around the gulf coast. Guess what; in europe, most people don\'t even have cars, because gas costs over five euros.
So, you\'d rather have Kerry be president I\'m guessing? You want some old guy that can\'t decide on anything to be president? Thats just stupid.
Edited for language.
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Yes! Another idiot to argue with before the thread is closed :P. Okay, as for the war, yes it was based on lies. But there are worse leaders around the world and what are we doing to them? Like Kim Jong Il for example, you know he starves a good portion of his people, and he spends so much money on military. Yes, they have come out and said they have nucular(hehe dumb Bush) weapons... but not before we went to Iraq. So should the USA go into every country and remove leaders with no exit strategy becuase they are bad men? Of course not right. But what does Iraq have that North Korea doesnt? Thats right kids, oil. And to go in with so few allies.. and not to mention we had already decided to go to war without going to the UN for help.. we came in and told them what we were doing. But there are other issues here. War itself is wrong... no questions. There is nothing you can do to anyone that deserves teh punishment of war. Why? Because war tends to hurt the people of a nation more then anything else. And Preemtive war is even worse. It sets a terrible precident.
And gas prices? Now I understand that it was not all his fault. But this was happening before any of those Hurricanes. Its been a steady trend.. going strait up that is. And what do presidents have the power to do? Negotiate lowering gas prices. Clinton did it during his reign.
But what you need shami, put down the Republican Digest and open your mind. Dont get affended just because I make fun of a joke of a president. Open your mind and you will see that yes he has made way too many mistakes. And has completely misled the entire US, evening getting us to give him the okay for an unnecessary war :(. But I always get the \"He is a good guy. Hes doing his best. He is a good christian\" ... and obviously all those things are not good enough.
Edit:
but what they do is just not right.
Right? who determines whats right and wrong? Its all relative to the person/culture. You should know this.
And yes I would prefer Kerry over Bush any day. He is just a tad more inteligent.. and from what he said he was going to allow the Patriot act to expire.. and that is another failure of teh Bush presidency .
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*Induane sees Valbrandr being called an idiot! Zounds! How dare thee! I shall spite you with my words, using them as a knife to cut you free from the narrow bonds holding your mind.
Seriously though - who doesn\'t think the oil prices are at least partially the Presidents fault. Now, he probabily didn\'t cause them to rise in the first place, his crime is doing nothing to stop it. First - don\'t give me the \"The president has no control over gas prices blah blah blah crap. Several times in US history, even fairly recently, gas prices have spiked unreasonably - the last time before now that this happened, the truck drivers of america went on strike, leaving their rigs to block major bridges, while the rest of them caravaned down to washington, blocking the roads as they went. They got there, and the government went and met with leaders, threatened oil companies, and did what it took to bring down the gas prices. Bush isn\'t causing the problem, but the high oil prices are making him extremely richer right now and that is undeniable - alot of his investments are tied up in oil and oil futures, so as long as the markup is large he makes a handsome profit. So he probabily doesn\'t want to stop this, as its good for him economically. He perpetuates the problem by ignoring it.
Secondly oil is being price gouged by everyone along the lines. They are making extreme profits on the backs of the working class. You\'ll find that only extreme right wingers are the only ones left defending the oil companies, as even most staunch conservatives agree that there is alot of dishonest price gougeing going on. Here are the unrefutable facts:
The overal total price per barrel for OPEC is $4.02 dollars a barrel. That is their expenses. That is what it costs per barrel on a verage to drill it, pay workers to drill it, research new places to drill, etc.. in order to break even each year, OPEC has to sell each barrel on the global market for that much. Next fact - currently prices per barrel are going between 65 and 70 dollars a barrel. Since opec doesn\'t have anyone to compete with they can do this. That is apprroximately a 60-65 dollar per barrel markup that is pure profit. This pays pads the pockets of the people in charge there. Next fact, Bush blocked the proposals to turn several old military bases into refineries, on the grounds that it would pollute too much. Weird considering he slashed emmissions requirements for companies around america, resulting in a 12% increase in greenhouse pollutants every year, as compared to the steady 4-5% each year it had been from his fathers presidency until his second year. Other little snippets - when the refineries in the gulf went out because of the hurricanes, the president managed to use that to type our Alaskan oil reserves despite the fact that adding more crude oil wasn\'t going to do much considering it was the refineries that were hit.
Other snippet - 4 refineries out of 12 went down - 2 were not for comsumer fuels, one was for high octane fuels, like the \"premium\" fuels we see at the pumps. Only one was for the standard gas we use, and it was closed for maintence the previous month. Hmmm - so why did regular gas prices jump so much? Good question as our supply there was hardly scratched.... (note taken from the infamous Fox News network so take that fact or leave it I havn\'t researched it out as thoroughly).
We know we\'re getting price gouged elsewhere in oil by looking at gas prices to price of oil per barrel several years ago and comparing that ratio to now - we see that despite the insane markup on oil on the global market, they would have to be selling for 120 dollars per barrel to be $3.00 per gallon. That means that the profit margin on refining the fuel has nearly doubled as well.
Next question - who sets gas prices? Really who? Its not the market - market moves slower than 20 cent jumps from day to day for an entire country. Small gas stations get the gas prices set by the oil companies daily. If they set their prices anything lower, they won\'t have fuel delivered anymore. But despite an O\'Riley Factor investigation, no one can find out exactly who sets the gas prices individually. Some things are interesting as well - in Kansas, gas is fairly expensive, while in Lousisana its even more expensive (even before the hurricane) despite the fact that they have less tax on their gas than we do in Kansas. It also costs way more to ship the fuel to kansas from the gulf than it does to get it to louisanna which is geographically in a great spot with the refineries so close. Why is this? It proves that gas doesn\'t operate on a supply and demand based system. Demand is a necessity, supply is surplus currently (may change in the near future, who knows). So the gas companies set prices that they think people will pay. Supply isn\'t the issue. Demand is - thats why its insane in California. People will pay for it.
Is this dishonest of the gas companies? its not in a competition based system - thats capitalism. The real problem is that the oil companies figured out that they could all make way more money if instead of competeing, they just all set high similar prices. That is called a cartel. Which is a monopolistic characteristic, but with several companies. This is what happened and saying that its the PEOPLES problem is downright bunk! I have an idea I\'ll just not buy gas to go to work! Or better, I\'ll uproot my family and move right next to my workplace so that I can walk! Great! Who cares what it does to my family! Serioulsy - people should be able to purchase fuel at a reasonable rate. Europe is a different story - its smaller and thus there is a good train/underground system to move people around so that they can get places without a car. In the US we simply don\'t have a choice.
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**This is towards Vals last post, not yours, Induane**
Words cannot express how much of an idiot you are as far as politics and society go. First off, every president makes mistakes. You\'re acting like Bush is the worst one; why is that? You\'re a democrat, and I can tell. So put down the democrats digest and listen to someone who actually KNOWS what hes talking about. It was a good thing Bush was re-elected; I mean, come on. We\'re in a war. Do you want us to switch horses midstream? I wouldn\'t, especially for a horse that can\'t make up his mind half the time.
There are presidents who have misled the US far more than Bush has. People didn\'t even know about the devastating effects of the atomic bomb until after they had used it. How about Vietnam? They lied about the casualties of our soldiers, and to lie about a soldiers death is to dishonor him.
And you\'re a little bit misled about the oil thing as well. We\'re not taking it from them, we\'re buying it from them. You\'re saying we shouldn\'t do that? Then you\'re a hypocrite, because you\'re complaining about gas prices and not having enough oil. And thats not the reason we went there; one of my theories would be he is doing that to finish his fathers work and get rid of Saddam once and for all, but we can\'t argue over why someone did something. Its pointless.
Now that we\'ve got that cleared up, lets talk about something else. You should know that anyone in the United States is going to think that what they do is not right; therefore, don\'t you think the president will too?
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Shami, I can definately agree with you on several things - in a way I\'m glad that Bush was reelected, partially so we\'re not switching horses midstream, but thats not the biggest part. For one I doubt this is midstream - he got us into somthing that is going to be on us for years and years to come. But I was kind of happy to see him reelected because he would have to be the one to deal with the consequences of his previous presidency. Some presidents have mislead the US more than Bush - true agreed. Also you are correct, we\'re not taking the oil, they are selling it and we are one of the customers. The money from the oil is used in the iraq rebuilding. Bush I actually think is mostly a sincere person, though not with biases. I think he was more mislead by his cabinet and advisors, and just didn\'t realize it - he surrounded himself with a cabinet of people probabily much smarter than himself - which was good and bad. You don\'t want a bunch of average intelligence people running that show because its important, but bad because it opens himself up to manipulation.
I agree also that he might have had a little vendetta against saddam from his fathers presidency, but I also think that he didn\'t want that much of the worlds oil in the control of a madman. This may even be a good reason, but it was never brought up - nor were the reasons besides WMD\'s - which is now proven to be false, or at least none have been found insofar - but its been years...
You can however argue over why someone did something becasue it suggests things about their character, and that is important to consider when choosing the countries leader. if he did go in because of a personal vendetta then I don\'t want to see a leader like that again ever, because to me sacraficing the lives of Americans to satisfy a vendetta - even if it was only partly the reason - is beyond contempt.
Also, while Bush has done some good things he has made larger mistakes:
1.) War in Iraq (debatable of course)
2.) FEMA appointment of his friend, resulting in a bad FEMA response, and an inept one at that which probabily cost many people their lives.
3.) Donald Rumsfeld (lol arguable I know - but things aren\'t going great and peachy in Iraq, and their handling of the matter hasn\'t been good)
4.) The southern border - Bush and republicans rely on the hispanic vote alot - hispanics favor an open border policy, and as such Bush has ignored the problem that the border is almost completely open - as a national security issue, this is bad as someone could easily sneak a dirty bomb into the US from that border. Bush recently made a statement that he would \"fix\" the problem, but was criticised by both the left and the right for not saying when or how.
5.) Fuel prices in the US - they are hurting people alot - many people are cutting back on spending as a resulft of High gas prices which will probabily drive the economy into a recession.
6.) Hurricane response - The leadership in Lousinanna was inept and everyone knew it - FEMA wasn\'t doing much and Bush was 2 days late in using an executative order to seize the situation, again costing people their lives. (now that isn\'t to say that people should rely in the govn\'t to help in bad situations, thats dumb -the government is to cumbersome and inept to handle it.)
These are not a long list - but they are big mistakes, and as such critism is warrented, whether you agree with his policys.
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For the hurricanes:
Caused by global warming. There\'s going to be more of them, and they\'re going to get stronger and stronger. The fact that the first hurricane ever recorded (or found to have happened in past history) in south america occured last year proves that our climate is screwing up, as well as record temperatures, flooding where there\'s never been flooding before, lack of snow in winters where it always used to snow every year, proof (found in Irish bogs) that changes in the suns temperature have made little difference to our climates temperature, etc.
For other natural disasters:
Bad luck I guess. Not much we can do about them. We may now go 100 years without another, we may have one in the few days... who knows.
For Bush, the Iraq war, etc:
I wish people would just shut their mouths about what\'s happened and just get on with fixing everything and solving all the problems. I don\'t really care if we should have gone in to Iraq (although I supported it), or about any other past decisions, and would rather see people making an effort to help sort out all the problems caused, and problems that there were before any such desicions were made.
Same with global warming. Something really needs to be done about it. A switch to nuclear/renewable power and use of hydrogen fuel would solve all our problems, and could be in place before our fossil fuel starts to run out and prices become extreme in the coming decades.
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Originally posted by Shami
**This is towards Vals last post, not yours, Induane**
Words cannot express how much of an idiot you are as far as politics and society go. First off, every president makes mistakes. You\'re acting like Bush is the worst one; why is that? You\'re a democrat, and I can tell. So put down the democrats digest and listen to someone who actually KNOWS what hes talking about. It was a good thing Bush was re-elected; I mean, come on. We\'re in a war. Do you want us to switch horses midstream? I wouldn\'t, especially for a horse that can\'t make up his mind half the time.
There are presidents who have misled the US far more than Bush has. People didn\'t even know about the devastating effects of the atomic bomb until after they had used it. How about Vietnam? They lied about the casualties of our soldiers, and to lie about a soldiers death is to dishonor him.
And you\'re a little bit misled about the oil thing as well. We\'re not taking it from them, we\'re buying it from them. You\'re saying we shouldn\'t do that? Then you\'re a hypocrite, because you\'re complaining about gas prices and not having enough oil. And thats not the reason we went there; one of my theories would be he is doing that to finish his fathers work and get rid of Saddam once and for all, but we can\'t argue over why someone did something. Its pointless.
Now that we\'ve got that cleared up, lets talk about something else. You should know that anyone in the United States is going to think that what they do is not right; therefore, don\'t you think the president will too?
Hmm you make a few mistakes here Shami... No I am not a Democrat... I am more of a Socialist or a term I believe I coined.. a Social Idealist :). And I dont think you know what you are talking about friend. Hmm it makes me wonder if you are educated.. not trying to offend you but how old are you?
Look, what is your point about \"well other presidents have misled us too\"... does that make it ok? You dont mind that he used us and we complied allowing him to have his war? In addition, Im not just mad about the gas prices... Im mad that many of us have no alternative but to drive. More money needs invested into alternative fuel cells and whatnot.. and how about we not spend so much money on mildly retarded wars.
But try not to get so offended from what I say, I have no problem with you its just your views :).
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Well said Induane.
Valbrandr, if you think having a colledge education somehow makes you better than Shami, then I think your a snob. You might be right, Shami could be 12 years old, but what he or she said should be evaluated based on the words that were written. If you find fault in what was written you should tell us exactly what was wrong.
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Just a bunch of random comments:
Originally posted by Shami
Guess what; in europe, most people don\'t even have cars, because gas costs over five euros.
Don\'t know which Europe you\'re talking about, mine looks a little different, car-wise.
Looking out the window, the gas price sounds about right though. Converting the units, gas currently costs 5.74USD/gallon, which isn\'t too bad compared to the prices after Katrina (about 15% higher than now).
Originally posted by Xordan
A switch to [...] hydrogen fuel would solve all our problems
Biggest hoax ever. :)
Where the CO2 comes from is irrelevant.
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Originally posted by Pogopuschel
Don\'t know which Europe you\'re talking about, mine looks a little different, car-wise.
Looking out the window, the gas price sounds about right though. Converting the units, gas currently costs 5.74USD/gallon, which isn\'t too bad compared to the prices after Katrina (about 15% higher than now).
Part of the issue is the difference in daily commute between Europeans and Americans. On average American\'s drive is a third of the distance of European\'s daily commute. One statement was that Americans average a 75+ kilometer plus daily commute compared to Europe\'s 10 - 20 kilometers.
Originally posted by Xordan
A switch to [...] hydrogen fuel would solve all our problems
Biggest hoax ever. :)
Where the CO2 comes from is irrelevant.
I agree. :)
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Originally posted by Askr
Originally posted by Pogopuschel
Originally posted by Xordan
A switch to [...] hydrogen fuel would solve all our problems
Biggest hoax ever. :)
Where the CO2 comes from is irrelevant.
I agree. :)
Ehh? You know that when you burn hydrogen the exhaust is water vapour? Hence the H2O of water being Hydrogen and Oxygen.. and when hydrogen is burned it\'s a reaction with Oxygen.... so remind me where all that carbon comes from.. :P
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Valbrandr, if you think having a colledge education somehow makes you better than Shami, then I think your a snob. You might be right, Shami could be 12 years old, but what he or she said should be evaluated based on the words that were written. If you find fault in what was written you should tell us exactly what was wrong.
Haha, maybe the first person to call me a snob :P. But looked at the way I asked Shami, i wasnt trying to be offensive. But if you are paying attention, my posts are just my opinion against his opinion, while he is attacking me in each case. So atleast Shami is irrational.. and derwoodly why do you follow me around? Are you still mad because I got you on a few other political threads :P? I dont know what it is, but just state your opinions, no need for direct insults.. and I know \"oh but you called Jellywerker a \'Damn Idiot\' \" In which I have already apologized to him, and we are supposed to be having a debate but I still need time to research some stuff :P.
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No joke - hydrogen isn\'t even burned - it is used as a \'fuel cell\". which actually works somewhat like a battery, which is to generate electricity through chemical interaction. The difference in fuel cells and batteries is that batteries are a closed cell, and electricity can be put into them and they will chemically store the electrical energy. Fuel cells are open cell technology, and the electricity is avhieved by using the chemical reactions to consume the hydrogen - thus the way to recharge the cell is to replace the h ydrogen in the cell - a quick fill up compared to a battery, plus a hydrogen cell is more efficient in that it stores more electrical energy in less space, and less is wasted in the process.
The only byproduct of a hydrogen fuel cell is to put off water, so there is no pollutant.
Biggest hoax ever. Where the CO2 comes from is irrelevant.
Perhaps I\'m stupid but I don\'t even understand this comment. What are you even talking about? And someone agreed? I\'m really confused. If you meant energy, then you are wrong - where the energy comes from is relevant - hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, fossile fuels are far from that and they exist only on earth (as far as we know - we still havn\'t found life on any other planet and fossile fuels require life to occur). So why is that a hoax? A promising technology that could reduce dependance on the limited fossil fuel supply or completely eliminate - a technology that doesn\'t pollute the environment? Sounds terrible! Seriously though, whats the problem with it?
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Valbrandr, I would hardly call myself irrational; no offense, but you seem to have a know-it-all attitude, which really pisses me off. I hate it when people are like that, however, you still are acting like Bush is the worst president to make mistakes. Yes, he has made many mistakes during his presidency. However, the fact still remains that other presidents have gotten us into situations worse than this. Like when we went into Vietnam; there were a ton of casualties that they didn\'t even TELL us about. Sometimes, I wonder what people would\'ve done in the presidents shoes when they are faced with vital decisions. Do you believe in this war? Or do you think our soldiers are wasting their lives, fighting for what they believe in?
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I guess you would have to know me in RL Shami... Yes I am a very opinionated person, and the fact is that I constantly am involved with politics... which is really a love hate relationship. I hate politics though I find myself always getting involved in it :P. And, I am 23, which when I talk about how bad President Bush has been for our country, all I can say is his father was a better pres along with Clinton.. so Bush jr is the worst president that I have been alive for.
However, the fact still remains that other presidents have gotten us into situations worse than this. Like when we went into Vietnam; there were a ton of casualties that they didn\'t even TELL us about.
Yes of course there have been worse decisions.. but you dont see any similarities between Iraq and Vietnam? My college history professor, who was in Vietnam, took plenty of time in our \"A history of Vietnam\" class to tell us the scary similarities.. and if it is anything like Vietnam then I want no part in it.
Do you believe in this war? Or do you think our soldiers are wasting their lives, fighting for what they believe in?
No I do not believe in this war. Though I do not believe the soldiers are wasting their lives, I believe the President is wasting their lives. How can you justify something like that? Go into a country on trumped charges and to lose your son or daughter :(. But what I really dont like is how the military in the USA has become a pawn to the President.. and since they are he uses them as he sees fit :(.
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Originally posted by Induane
Perhaps I\'m stupid but I don\'t even understand this comment. What are you even talking about? And someone agreed? I\'m really confused. If you meant energy, then you are wrong - where the energy comes from is relevant - hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, fossile fuels are far from that and they exist only on earth (as far as we know - we still havn\'t found life on any other planet and fossile fuels require life to occur). So why is that a hoax? A promising technology that could reduce dependance on the limited fossil fuel supply or completely eliminate - a technology that doesn\'t pollute the environment? Sounds terrible! Seriously though, whats the problem with it?
1. It is not cost effective.
2. Is not energy efficient.
3. Would require a complete industry to be created to support its function.
4. Not reliable.
Those are the first four off the top of my head. :)
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Originally posted by Shami
Do you believe in this war? Or do you think our soldiers are wasting their lives, fighting for what they believe in?
What do you think the soldiers believe? Soldiers are told to go to war, their only other option is to be brought up on charges. They fight, because that is what they have to do. They are told some line of bs about how this war is necessary and good and right and justified and then they load up and get shipped off. If they are lucky they will return and can retire and live out there lives. If not, they die in combat, their families suffer, and do you know the reason why? Because the President said so.
Good enough for you?
If someone told you to walk into the middle of a busy intersection would you do it because that person said to? Probably not, yet our soldiers (our brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, fathers and mothers) get sent to their deaths because someone sitting in an office said it should be done. Hell they don\'t even get to die on their own soil, in the arms of their loved ones. They don\'t get to say goodbye. Some of them don\'t even get to see their children being born. They don\'t get to come home at night and kiss their kids, wives, husbands, goodnight. No bedtime stories for them. No birthdays. No graduations. No weddings.
Have you paid attention to all the little flags and banners and t-shirts being worn, or paraded on vehicles or put up as posters? They say \"Support our Troops\" \"Pray for our Soldiers\".... They never say \"Pray for our children\" \"Support our Parents\" and so on. It is so much easier to disconnect when they are soldiers or troops. It is much easier to justify the fact that they are being sent to die for a pointless and fruitless cause. If we were constantly reminded that the soldier who just died, for absolutely no reason other than the whim of the President, was your neighbors son, or daughter or the father or mother of your childs friend, etc, we would be putting up a hell of an argument to get them back.
Contrary to popular opinion, disagreeing with your government leaders is not unpatriotic. Bush should be held accountable, but the American people won\'t do it, because they\'ve become complacent. The rest of the government won\'t do it becuase they are too busy bickering over petty issues. And Bush won\'t admit to it and back down himself, because well...why should he? Out of decency? Respect? Honor? Common courtesy? He will never admit he sent 2000 children to their death for no reason, and that doesn\'t count the children of other nations that died because of his influence.
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Wow Askr, I dont think I could have put it better myself. Hmm I think that settles everything on that issue. Im speechless to a point on how sadly accurate that is to me.
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:) I agree with Askr 100% and Amen to his statment! I could not have put it better.
/me claps and gives a bow to Askr