PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: shorty13 on November 08, 2005, 01:07:17 am
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not going to say why for some people, but I was just wondering if they were because I just hit up every NPC asking for a gold ring from Hydlaa to Ojaveda.
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You aren\'t asking in the right way.
Don\'t expect it to be easy ;)
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[ Spoiler removed ]
Let people figure it out themselves, or at least find out answers in an RP manner in-game :) --Karyuu
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About \"asking the right way\"...
I tried to ask Menlil Toresun to get the medicine for Gorbiak. I guess I tried a dozen different sentences, but he did not understand any.
If a friend had not told me the exact sentence, I would never had found it out on my own; merchants are so picky, they even don\'t understand if a grammar article is missing or in another form. (e.g. \"cure for a disease\" is wrong, \"a cure for disease\" is correct).
This is not roleplaying, this is disability.
And if I don\'t even understand what you may mean by \"asking the right way\", not even to mention who to ask, then a non-native english speaker will never solve such quests. :(
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We are aware of the limitations in NPCs speech, and we will work to improve those in the future, as soon as the current features are stabilized.
Meanwhile I encourage everyone to send us list of improvements to NPC speech, with trigger words and answers. We will be glad to add those.
(Setting prospects that were assigned to that task, failed it many times, so we still lack much on that side).
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would it be illegal to ask what phrase I have to ask NPC\'s to get them to give me a ring? I wouldn\'t think so because it is extremely annoying having to figure out the exact sentence structure to ask the qeustion, where as IRL, you can ask the question many many different ways to get the same result. I do not think that sitting there trying to figure out the correct word usage is part of RPing that much.
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According to the Mods, anything that gives you even the slightest edge over the other PS players is considered a spoiler.
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heheh... illegal.
\"HALT! you are breaking forum law! you have the right to refrain from posting! anything you post can and will be used against you in the court of Talad. you have the right to plead for mercy!\"
*coughjavacough*
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(http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/2427/shot011sh.th.jpg) (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot011sh.jpg)
By stfrn: You aren\'t asking in the right way.
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Originally posted by Halvord
According to the Mods, anything that gives you even the slightest edge over the other PS players is considered a spoiler.
Har har ;) I hope everyone realizes that anything quest-related, even solutions, can be shared without any problems whatsoever in-game.
Originally posted by Talad
Asking for solutions of quests is not something we like, and posting solutions is not tolerated. There is plenty of room to team up, form guilds, ask help to other players in game, or (best of all) have fun and found it out yourself. Rings, pets and the like are NOT limited, so you will get yours even if you arrive last on the \"run\". There is no need to run, you are not paying for it, so your monthly fee doesn\'t expire, relax and enjoy the world of PlaneShift at the pace you prefer.
*edited to add* You amuse me :)
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Hit a little too close to home, eh Karyuu? The truth hurts, doesn\'t it? ;)
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why do people moan about not having a challenge in a game, then whine harder because they can\'t get soimethign they want in it and so have to band together with the rest of a intellect void mob and share information hints and answers to the games every nook and cranny, and after this, moan at how boring and easy it is again.
gah you hippies >.<
this task Talad set up today is hard as nails, and should remain that way
rock on T-man \\o/
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No afence ment but mine was Humour. :))
Klick on pictuer to enlarge it. :))
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( Hummer ~ humour )
Yes, Janner - I experienced a similar reaction from Levrus Dalrenn (Magic Shop), even if I used capital first letter and sentence dot. But asking him for a quest worked so far.
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Here a few sentences I tried to say in the temple without success:
- Can you heal/cure a gobble?
- Can you heal/cure Gorbiak?
- Do you have medicine for gobbles?
... and variations. Due to my limited vocabulary, I never thought of \"disease\".
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@ Keyaz:
Your argument sounds to me almost like \"No foreigners!\" (although I\'m sure that was not your intention): Solving a quest shall not be limited by language skills. But the current technology adds this barrier, unfortunately.
And also, please consider: Those who made a quest know the way to solve it. Those who didn\'t would have to be able to \"think 3 corners ahead\"... there is a slight gap between \"logical but hard\" and \"illogical\". Crossing that gap ruined several games (usually pre-rendered search-and-click riddles or classic point-and-click adventures) in the history of game development. I remember someone said that \"elevators only work if you wear green socks\" in a Sierra game. I would rate riddles like in \"Day of the Tentacle\" or \"Tony Tough\" just across that gap.
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Originally posted by shorty13
not going to say why for some people, but I was just wondering if they were because I just hit up every NPC asking for a gold ring from Hydlaa to Ojaveda.
First give a little before you can recieve something ;)
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and what does thou want thee to give?
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Something everyone can give.
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Originally posted by Zan
Originally posted by shorty13
not going to say why for some people, but I was just wondering if they were because I just hit up every NPC asking for a gold ring from Hydlaa to Ojaveda.
First give a little before you can recieve something ;)
Wait, what are you talking about? I got the gold ring quest without giving anything, except for money for training, to the merchant.
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Talking to the merchant (and solving another easy quest before, probably) is all it takes to \"get the quest\".
But shorty13 wonders what it takes to \"get the ring\" - a little difference...
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Well for me it\'s Ten Tefusang skins, but since the NPC client is down I can\'t get them so I\'m screwed.
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What I meant is giving him your assistance as in \"Can I help you?\" It\'s something everyone can give ;)
I was trying to help out in an original way without giving away any spoilers.
I don\'t think some people are going to be too happy seeing you give away spoilers to the quest though. You might want to leave details like what you exactly have to do or who you have to talk to out.
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That has strange responses, once when I asked \"Do you need help?\" the NPC responded with \"Give me a... get a job freeloader!\" Very strange.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Halvord
According to the Mods, anything that gives you even the slightest edge over the other PS players is considered a spoiler.
Har har ;) I hope everyone realizes that anything quest-related, even solutions, can be shared without any problems whatsoever in-game.
Originally posted by Talad
Asking for solutions of quests is not something we like, and posting solutions is not tolerated. There is plenty of room to team up, form guilds, ask help to other players in game, or (best of all) have fun and found it out yourself. Rings, pets and the like are NOT limited, so you will get yours even if you arrive last on the \"run\". There is no need to run, you are not paying for it, so your monthly fee doesn\'t expire, relax and enjoy the world of PlaneShift at the pace you prefer.
*edited to add* You amuse me :)
People are \"amusingly\" reluctant to volunteer such information in-game however except to their friends.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
People are \"amusingly\" reluctant to volunteer such information in-game however except to their friends.
Isn\'t that the way it normally works in real life, too? You aren\'t likely to share some awesome new information with someone or other unless they\'re rather close to you.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by zanzibar
People are \"amusingly\" reluctant to volunteer such information in-game however except to their friends.
Isn\'t that the way it normally works in real life, too? You aren\'t likely to share some awesome new information with someone or other unless they\'re rather close to you.
Well, I will also share information if I think it serves the good of humanity. But that\'s just me.
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I fail to see how helping someone get a gold ring or a groffel will serve \"the good of humanity.\" But that\'s just me :P
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look there is a way to get a gold ring, but the current monster problem kinda of makes it impossible
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Originally posted by Karyuu
I fail to see how helping someone get a gold ring or a groffel will serve \"the good of humanity.\" But that\'s just me :P
You don\'t think making people happy is a noble cause?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Karyuu
I fail to see how helping someone get a gold ring or a groffel will serve \"the good of humanity.\" But that\'s just me :P
You don\'t think making people happy is a noble cause?
Haha, zanzibar logics xD
\"The good of humanity\" is when you do something that would affect whole human population. Pointing someone to where he can buy a chicken is hardly bringing goodwill to the whole humanity :P
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Quote:originally posted by Zanzibar
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Quote:
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Originally posted by zanzibar
People are \"amusingly\" reluctant to volunteer such information in-game however except to their friends.
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Isn\'t that the way it normally works in real life, too? You aren\'t likely to share some awesome new information with someone or other unless they\'re rather close to you.
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Well, I will also share information if I think it serves the good of humanity. But that\'s just me.
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If you are trying to get the information the easy way, I guess you will find out how your frends are.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Haha, zanzibar logics xD
\"The good of humanity\" is when you do something that would affect whole human population. Pointing someone to where he can buy a chicken is hardly bringing goodwill to the whole humanity :P
No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching
Anyway, I did hint at wanting the item while in the plaza. The following conversation followed, as expected:
***
Shalmaneser wouldn\'t mind having a gold ring.
Myysst says: shalmenazer ur stupid lol
Shalmaneser is inspired by the poetry of Myysst\'s words.
New Person says: OM.G what do you type to get it to write like that!
Shalmaneser is confused by the strange terms.
New Person says: LIKe with your keyboard noob1
Myysst says: I beat shal in duel lulz
***
I found it myself anyway, but asking people in game for bits of information like that is the ideal but not always possible. Of course, it\'s highly situational, but I\'d sooner say \"Talk to the character [insert name of one of my characters] in game and he\'ll probably help you out\" than simply \"Ask someone in-game.\" That way, I\'m keeping it in-game but I\'m also doing something about it and not leaving it in the hands of chance or circumstance.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching
Aha so I see it. Some poorly dressed man asks Shal for pointers to the groffel. Shal gives some hints and the man goes to his master, who then orders all the needed materials. Then he gets the Groffel, kills it and stuffs it out to hang by his fireplace.
While at the same time some man fights his way to give the last moment of happiness to his dying daughter. By giving her the groffel she always wanted. He fights all the beasts with his bare hands, gets materials with primitive tools. Just so that when he comes to collect the groffel, he hears \"Sorry, I\'m tired of giving things away to people. In all the time not even single time have I heard thank you for it.\"
I can already see all the peace in my heart :)
And if you believe pointing someone to some stupid chicken would eventually lead to goodwill of humanity, then you seriously need to rethink over your idealistic world views :P
Not going to happen. Someone will most likely learn to take advantage of other people.
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Draklar, open minded as always.
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Zanzibar, posting worthless stuff as always.
But I also found a serious logical flaw in this belief:
Originally posted by zanzibar
No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching
Well maybe not as much logical flaw, as something that proves all those lines to be without any worth.
Only one line: \"There cannot be peace in the world\"
Peace in the world is utopia and can\'t be achieved since there\'s always some people who will use attempts to bring it to life for their own gain. Even if everyone are getting lots of things and there\'s general peace, human needs are infinite and they will reach for more, even if doing so will cause everyone (including them) to get less. I know that for a fact :)
So to sum it up: Trust between people who proved each other that they are worthy of trust is the only rational human behaviour. Trying to change that won\'t change anything and most likely cause further cases of mistrust. That\'s why seeing people giving informations about the quest is something to be expected, whilst \"goodwill\" of giving such informations to people we don\'t know enough, is a serious risk of helping someone that by all means shouldn\'t be helped. Much rather taught that to achieve something, you have to play nice with other people ;)
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Draklar, you\'re a very intelligent guy, but you could stand to have more heart in your world-view. The idea is that utopia is impossible because we are all individually imperfect beings, and if we had \"peace\" in our hearts as individuals then collectively we would become something much greater.
So you\'re right -- there cannot be peace in the world, so long as there is not peace in the hearts of individuals.
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Well if by peace in heart you understand state without any needs or feelings (so the only stae when no struggles between people is possible), then I assume you\'re talking about something like nirvana. But I don\'t treat such state as \"human\" thing and compare it to killing yourself (especially recalling a text about someone in such state being found during WWII... how creepy :/ ) ... So in a way everyone being in the state of nirvana is like killing all the people. Well with everyone killed, there will be peace too. So there\'s a real flaw in the logic. There can be peace wihout peace in heart... without heart (life) at all ;)
For a normal human being, with all the feelings and needs, no matter what happens - peace isn\'t possible.
But either way, you can\'t expect people to behave such way in a world similar to medieval Europe. It\'s completely different culture. Even if your character feels a need to help others and try to make life better, you can\'t expect same from the majority :)
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I think that while you\'re saying something which is interesting, the topic is wandering. I think the quote I gave has substance to it, and I think you just agreed with me but chose to concentrate on things that we may or may not agree upon.
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someone should lock this thread because it was made a while ago expecting a simple answer and now it is totally off topic.
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Nobody \"owns\" threads :P They don\'t get locked unless the posts become completely hostile or inappropriate, they don\'t get deleted unless entire threads are like that, and they don\'t get moved unless they look like they would work better in another forum section. All discussions evolve, so let them be.
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Originally posted by shorty13
someone should lock this thread because it was made a while ago expecting a simple answer and now it is totally off topic.
Don\'t like it?
Don\'t read it.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
Originally posted by Karyuu
I fail to see how helping someone get a gold ring or a groffel will serve \"the good of humanity.\" But that\'s just me :P
You don\'t think making people happy is a noble cause?
Haha, zanzibar logics xD
\"The good of humanity\" is when you do something that would affect whole human population. Pointing someone to where he can buy a chicken is hardly bringing goodwill to the whole humanity :P
First you point a few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum. :P
Sorry for this brief intermezzo .. you can go back to arguing with eachother now ;)
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Originally posted by Zan
First you point a few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum. :P
Human needs are infinite. Resources aren\'t.
That\'s one flaw in this logic :P
Another is, why do you think people who won\'t bother to figure things out by themselves, will bother to help others? ;)
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by Zan
First you point a few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum. :P
Human needs are infinite. Resources aren\'t.
That\'s one flaw in this logic :P
Another is, why do you think people who won\'t bother to figure things out by themselves, will bother to help others? ;)
Human needs are not infinite.
Desire, on the other hand, seems limitless, but it is controllable.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Human needs are not infinite.
Yes, they are infinite.
You consider \"need\" to be what people \"must\" have in order to live, but I refer to the economic (so more relevant in this case) sense of it.
In economic sense, to get a chicken is only a basic need. But the more you get, the more you want. Look at Planeshift. To be happy people needed pets. But will they be happy now? Nooo they\'ll want more and more stuff, still.
Actually, don\'t let people get those groffels, or they\'ll whine about lack of something else :P
Edit: Bad wording :\\
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
Human needs are not infinite.
Yes, they are infinite.
You consider \"need\" to be what people \"must\" have in order to live, but I refer to the economic (so more relevant in this case) sense of it.
In economic sense, to get a chicken is only a basic need. But the more you get, the more you want. Look at Planeshift. To be happy people needed pets. But will they be happy now? Nooo they\'ll want more and more stuff, still.
Actually, don\'t let people get those groffels, or they\'ll whine about lack of something else :P
Edit: Bad wording :\\
Need in this sense is but a social construction. Group definitions are malleable through the processes of human agency.
And how are people getting groffels? With the super client down, you shouldn\'t be able to finish the quest.
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Well we are talking about social construction, aren\'t we?
Originally posted by zanzibar
And how are people getting groffels? With the super client down, you shouldn\'t be able to finish the quest.
They use the fact that Drak doesn\'t know client is down again and get the materials needed for it from him >:/
Besides that they don\'t, I guess..