PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: miadon on November 28, 2005, 01:08:07 am
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OK a small suggestion by me would be for \"Enkis\" to be allowed to have more than one partner, as I think being a cat like race, Polygamy might be part of the culture. Why would I want this? well its not to be a sado and marry lots of female enkis (or maybe it is ;-) ) I just want it becasue I think it would add alot to the culture of Enkidukai\'s.
Call me a crazy weirdo now if you wish 8)
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I am not one to limit people, but why Enki? They are no more feline then we are apes. Does that mean we should love bananas?
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hehe sterf yhat was funny
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as far as RP is concerned, you can be as polygamous as you wish. If you actually want to change the names, it is really just a matter of convincing a GM to change it for you.
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Originally posted by stfrn
I am not one to limit people, but why Enki? They are no more feline then we are apes. Does that mean we should love bananas?
I like bananas...
Anyway, enkies are kind of an oriental race...
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You see enkis as oriental? Hmmm .. I always thought they had more relation with native american tribes. Unless maybe mongolian tribes, etc. I guess I can see the same comparison there.
However if we look at Klyros architecture I\'d say they are pretty oriental, you can see Chinese and Japanese influences there ... or are they Norse?
... yanno all this comparing is getting confusing.
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Originally posted by Zan
or are they Norse?
No, no. Ynnwns are norse :]
By oriental I mean somewhat like northern africa, going through turkey up to the mongolian. I know Oriental means mostly japan/china now, but it didn\'t use to ;)
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I struggled with one fenki and you want more? there\'s a word for that maso.. something ;)
While the race description in the player guide hints at pack like behaviour I want to be there when you try and persuade them to go along with it.
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Umm... the packs aren\'t really all that polygamic. Wolves for example are rather monogamists.
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How \'bout lions ;) They are probably closer to Enki\'s than wolves...well...Enki\'s do look like oversized humanoid cats...
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Well lions don\'t form packs. They form prides.
Which yes, are what the topic of this thread is about.
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*laughs at the comments in this thread then calms down to respond*
Well I do not know about anyone else but I find it hard to have one \"romantic\" relationship in the game let alone several. Miadon if you want more than one it is your funeral but I would love to come and watch.......
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I never wanted it for MYSELF :P I am not crazy, I just thought it might mix with the culture abit.
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Originally posted by miadon
I never wanted it for MYSELF :P I am not crazy, I just thought it might mix with the culture abit.
*has a good laugh* Ok I am not worried anymore if you lost your senses, or if you are ill. I am glad you are not crazy.
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Originally posted by zorbels
Well I do not know about anyone else but I find it hard to have one \"romantic\" relationship in the game let alone several.
Who says it has to be romantic? :P
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Hmm, ..., orgies, I\'m all for orgies really, just a pity that they dont really exist in real live...
*looks left and right* did I say this aloud *blushes*
But well I see the point and think belive it as rather valid, ... not that I dont doubt think that either menkis nor fenkis posses the *individual strength* for such a relationship.
But it would certainly add in to the praised uniqueness to go into even such \'trivial\' details.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zorbels
Well I do not know about anyone else but I find it hard to have one \"romantic\" relationship in the game let alone several.
Who says it has to be romantic? :P
What Draklar said ... we don\'t have the priviledge to marry with the people we love for that long, you know. It\'s a pretty recent developement that came along with civilisation. Back in the old days, in which planeshift is supposedly situated, most people married out of neccesity, arrangement or other benefits like titles or land.
And since I still haven\'t been able to make sense out of some of the unions in Yliakum .... I\'m assuming it\'s rarely done out of love.
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And if we\'re equating Enki behavior with earth feline behavior, if I\'m not mistaken, cats don\'t settle down with long term partners, one or many. Whoever\'s nearby when the female cat goes into heat gets to compete for the...um.. priviledge...Not exactly the same thing as polygamy.
Since (I assume) Enkis *do* have the capacity to form long-term romantic attachments, or even arrangements of convenience, it\'s obvious that whatever pack instincts they may have, they are not similar to earth cats, at least in that respect. :)
edit: In fact, if you simply want to introduce the concept of polygamy into the game in some form, it could always be a tenet of some religious splinter group or something. *shrug*
penny, penny (my two cents)
Night
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I think that all males races should be able to have more than one marriage and I think I have a good reason for it :)... One love type marriage with the person you have a true friendly type of relationship with.. and then another (or more) for alliance purposes :).. since this is a medieval setting and whatnot.. sounds like it fits to me :D.
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Looks like nobody here has read the settings, except perhaps the thread starter.
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Originally posted by Nightflyer0ne
And if we\'re equating Enki behavior with earth feline behavior, if I\'m not mistaken, cats don\'t settle down with long term partners, one or many.
Cats aren\'t the only real life felines. Look up the lion example.
Moogie: Care to elaborate? Or otherwise make your post less... worthless?
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Sorry, i was using \"cat\" in a generic sense, in place of feline. I didn\'t stop to check on any of this first, so certainly not an expert in behavior for any felines. If lions form long-term monogamous partnerships, or polygamous ones for that matter, then I apologize for over-generalizing :)
Night
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IIRC isn\'t it the Alpha Female that tends to have the final word in most feline/canine type of pack/pride/herd/group/family?
that\'ll set the cat amongst the menkis ;)
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Psychology
The Enkidukai race maintains its wild nature. They live in packs controlled by the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat. Each pack has a typical and easily recognizable look, mostly because of their habit in cutting or coloring fur in ritual or traditional ways. Enkidukai are always suspicious of strangers at the beginning, but once you gain their trust, they become faithful companions.
It doesn\'t categorically state it, but this definitely at least hints that THE (singular) male controls a pack of \'his\' females, which, in nature, often suggests a mating group.
Sorry for the vagueness earlier, I didn\'t have time to explain. :)
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:D Well that is wonderful in theory but there are more males in Yliakum than females. So the females following one male poses a problem........
;) So how about we switch it around, *chuckles* how about the females lead a pack of males?
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So how about we switch it around, *chuckles* how about the females lead a pack of males?
This is a fantasy realm... just because its like that in RL doesnt mean it should be like that in PS :P.
/me watches a female go by with a pack of men following her :D
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Originally posted by Moogie
Psychology
The Enkidukai race maintains its wild nature. They live in packs controlled by the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat. Each pack has a typical and easily recognizable look, mostly because of their habit in cutting or coloring fur in ritual or traditional ways. Enkidukai are always suspicious of strangers at the beginning, but once you gain their trust, they become faithful companions.
It doesn\'t categorically state it, but this definitely at least hints that THE (singular) male controls a pack of \'his\' females, which, in nature, often suggests a mating group.
What moogie posted here suggests that it will have to be the females that follow the males according to Yliakum History. So if I am to stay true to the game and its history following a male is what I would have to do. :/
Originally posted by Valbrandr
This is a fantasy realm... just because its like that in RL doesnt mean it should be like that in PS
So yes I know it is a fantasy world and I would love to have a pride of males myself. :D But would that pose a problem with the creators of the game?
/me wonders ......
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Originally posted by zorbels
:D Well that is wonderful in theory but there are more males in Yliakum than females. So the females following one male poses a problem........
;) So how about we switch it around, *chuckles* how about the females lead a pack of males?
In some societies, wives are status symbols more than anything else, so rich women will have wives to show their status in society, and a male lover on the side.
Perhap fenki of wealth and power have multiple wives and or husbands in the game among some groups. It certainly isn\'t unheard of for humans in real life societies.
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I just want to ask you this....
Do you think all your other partners would like you with another 15 partners?
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You\'d have to choose partners that would agree, clearly :) Or if it is an arranged marriage and a tradition among the families, it would pretty much be accepted as duty by the various participants.
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Originally posted by Nero da 2nd
I just want to ask you this....
Do you think all your other partners would like you with another 15 partners?
In societies with polygomous marriages, not all the partnerships are sexual.
Originally posted by Karyuu
You\'d have to choose partners that would agree, clearly :) Or if it is an arranged marriage and a tradition among the families, it would pretty much be accepted as duty by the various participants.
In a lot of arranged marriages though, it\'s understood that the marriage is for making babies and bringing family lines together. It\'s not necessarily a sexual or even loving relationship, and the marriage may be permissive for each partner to have sexual relationships outside the marriage without consequence. It depends on the culture though.
Personally, I could never do it. I can\'t obsess over more than one person at a time. I\'ve slept with two girls at the same time, but we didn\'t really do anything since we were just crashing and spooning, but it was confusing enough. Who gets the middle? Who should I be facing? These are important questions people that need to be answered. Once bras start flying, the questions just get more complex.
But, yeah.
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the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat
Not \"the male\", implying that there is only one male in the pack, but that \"the pack is led by the male (one out of several) who is strongest and most skillful in combat\", i.e. like a war-chieftain. This doesn\'t really suggest either model of mating, but the pervasive culture in most of Yliakum seems to be that of monogamous pairs, of either the same or mixed races. Within an Enkidukai tribe, the pairings would most likely be to other Enkidukai.
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The setting states for Diaboli
From the race description
They rarely keep a single partner, preferring to have many, and that explains the large number of half-breeds in Yliakum.
So they would be prime candidates for polygamy. This obviously doesn\'t mean that this spreads to other races / species, especially not in environments where the traditional ways of life have been more or less preserved (like nomadic tribes). Cities will have all sorts of mindsets AFAICS, only depending on what you can get away with.
Edit: WRT Enkis, please bear in mind that the form of relationship is a cultural issue. RL humans are by nature not required to stick to one partner, yet culture dictates it in most places. So whether or not Enkis are similar to RL cats or lions or whatnot doesn\'t necessarily mean that their culture follows any of it.
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Originally posted by Moogie
Psychology
The Enkidukai race maintains its wild nature. They live in packs controlled by the male who is strongest and most skillful in combat. Each pack has a typical and easily recognizable look, mostly because of their habit in cutting or coloring fur in ritual or traditional ways. Enkidukai are always suspicious of strangers at the beginning, but once you gain their trust, they become faithful companions.
It doesn\'t categorically state it, but this definitely at least hints that THE (singular) male controls a pack of \'his\' females, which, in nature, often suggests a mating group.
Sorry for the vagueness earlier, I didn\'t have time to explain. :)
That\'s not true... If we\'re talking about packs, social hierarchy of those shows that alpha males and females remain in monogamous relationships.
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Originally posted by miadon
Call me a crazy weirdo now if you wish 8)
ok your crazy and a wierdo.
seriously though i dont really see a problem with poligamy in game.
one question though... are inter-racial marrages allowed?
and if not why not?
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Originally posted by c-2501
one question though... are inter-racial marrages allowed?
Yeah, they are.
I think it\'s said so (or rather indicated) somewhere in the setting.
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Originally posted by Seytra
The setting states for Diaboli
From the race description
They rarely keep a single partner, preferring to have many, and that explains the large number of half-breeds in Yliakum.
So they would be prime candidates for polygamy. This obviously doesn\'t mean that this spreads to other races / species, especially not in environments where the traditional ways of life have been more or less preserved (like nomadic tribes). Cities will have all sorts of mindsets AFAICS, only depending on what you can get away with.
Edit: WRT Enkis, please bear in mind that the form of relationship is a cultural issue. RL humans are by nature not required to stick to one partner, yet culture dictates it in most places. So whether or not Enkis are similar to RL cats or lions or whatnot doesn\'t necessarily mean that their culture follows any of it.
In that case, would it be possible that more half-breeds than the Ynnwn? That would be awesome! No half-breeds of Krans, of course (or Klyros or Enki, perhaps, too off-species). Probably won\'t happen anyways.
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Originally posted by Halvord
Originally posted by Seytra
The setting states for Diaboli
From the race description
They rarely keep a single partner, preferring to have many, and that explains the large number of half-breeds in Yliakum.
So they would be prime candidates for polygamy. This obviously doesn\'t mean that this spreads to other races / species, especially not in environments where the traditional ways of life have been more or less preserved (like nomadic tribes). Cities will have all sorts of mindsets AFAICS, only depending on what you can get away with.
Edit: WRT Enkis, please bear in mind that the form of relationship is a cultural issue. RL humans are by nature not required to stick to one partner, yet culture dictates it in most places. So whether or not Enkis are similar to RL cats or lions or whatnot doesn\'t necessarily mean that their culture follows any of it.
In that case, would it be possible that more half-breeds than the Ynnwn? That would be awesome! No half-breeds of Krans, of course (or Klyros or Enki, perhaps, too off-species). Probably won\'t happen anyways.
I think that the Ynnwn were a fluke. Still, the whole rule of \"half breeds don\'t exist!\" doesn\'t make sense and exists purely out of convenience. If there were enough programmers and artists to make the codes and models for every possible half-breed, then it would probably happen.
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Originally posted by Zan
, in which planeshift is supposedly situated, most people married out of neccesity, arrangement or other benefits like titles or land.
/me giggles like an anime schoogirl at the tought of the necessities, arrangements and benefits of titles (bear in mind he read too fast and mistoke the \"L\" for an \"i\" )
/me quickly shakes his head and look around with a forced serious face
ok, back to the main topic, Even if there is one alpha male, I\'ve many times on animal planet that some species do have a aplha male, but he is \"elected\" by the \"democratic mass of females\", what is worth all the \"power\" of the aplha male if none of the females \"like\" him, and worse they \"like\" a younger, fitter nomad amle that stumbled into the pack(pride or whatever plural applies). btw don\'t even think asking me which was species or anything, I suck at remembering names, titLes, faces and stuff...8o)
ok, that was the more organic evolution \"ideal\" history and behavior point of view, but lets get real, I mean in the end there are real contemporany humans controlling the characters, even with the \"sugestions\" of behavior language and such, in the end from the moment other people than the authors start interacting with each other the culture inside yiliakum gets a life of its own, sure the authors and simpatitazants(spelling?) can give it some nudges in the direction they intend, but that surelly wont be the final word on the subject, just as there are nazi irl that try to impose an idealogy on others, sure some people go with it, but summing it all you can\'t say the all word is nazist.
ps: sorry about the reference to nazism, it was just the first example that came to my mind, probably cause I\'ve just watched a episode of Law&Order with nazists in it. And also please note that I am in no way saying nor implying anything regarding opinions fo the authors on mathers of ideology and such. Not my intention to offend or condone anything, just my try at a brief socioscientist wannabe... whatever, now not even I know what I am talking about 8o)
summing it up (somewhat) I didn\'t intend to say anithing bad or good about any person or group of persons, neither about any concept, -insert here the apologies you feel I should have said, as I probably would have said them if I noticed the necessities of such-
or something somewhat like that 8o)
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Originally posted by zanzibar
In societies with polygomous marriages, not all the partnerships are sexual.
Now tell me if i\'m wrong, but this whole \"partner\" thing goes along with being able to marry, am I correct?
Now marriage, is a very special thing to some people, even though it might be a video game, girlfriends and boyfriends can still be made a big idea.
Now, let me tell you something, how can you think that your \"partners\" are no more than NPC\'s? Even IF it were your race\'s culture, do you think other wives and husbands would like this? Do you think of wives (or husbands) in this game as prizes?!?!? Do you think you can just marry REAL women (or men) all you want, even though they may not like it? You know what those actions are like, it\'s like a dog. A dog runs around and pounces all the female dogs and then just walks away like nothing happened. Now, if you are talking about \"divorcing\" your partner, then I am OK with that.
I want you to think, think about the person behind the screen, think about what she (or he) might think, if she (or he) ever found out about your other 13 wives. True, not all partnerships HAVE to be sexual, but these are still people who probaly grow up in countries that have sexual relationships, and only one women per man. She might get angry, get sad, you were CHEATING on her, ever thought of that? Now I don\'t know about you, but I didn\'t spend 2 days of technichal difficulties and downloads, to have this game turned into \"Cheater Shift\" or \"Have as many wives as you want Shift\"
End of disscusion.
Edited for language.
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This is a game. This is roleplay. This is not real :)
I would think that the majority of people who are already married in real life wouldn\'t fall in love with moving pixels on a computer screen, nor would even consider marrying someone else in a game. Calm down, you\'re blowing things way out of proportion. Or do you know many cases where a marriage in a game ruined a real, long-term relationship?
*edited to add*
Are you even familiar with real polygamous cultures, societies, or tribes? Are you aware of how they work, and the fact that they do work, and work quite well? Pick up a cultural anthropology book sometime ;)
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Erm I think your taking this game abit serious :s, this topic was about making enki have teh ability to have polygimous marriages (and that idea in general). This is not about people taking the game to serioulsy and getting offended by you marrying other people, if people just went round doing that to anyone then they are bad roleplayers yes.
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All I have to say is...
If you guys think i\'m taking this game too seriously, fine. But really, marriges on a video game????? I think that\'s a topic above all, should be taken seriously....its real people people!
If it were my choice, there would be no marriages....
My final word on this post....
Karyuu, I know about those kinds of cultures, but about 90% of us aren\'t living in those kinds of cultures....
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Yeah? Fortunately most of us are rather tolerant of the freedom of others to live as they choose :) We\'re playing with real people, but we\'re not playing ourselves, and we\'re not playing in real life - thus we can kill others, steal from others, hunt others, scheme against others, and at the end of the day, marry others. A game is a game.
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Originally posted by Nero da 2nd
Originally posted by zanzibar
In societies with polygomous marriages, not all the partnerships are sexual.
Now tell me if i\'m wrong, but this whole \"partner\" thing goes along with being able to marry, am I correct?
Now marriage, is a very special thing to some people, even though it might be a video game, girlfriends and boyfriends can still be made a big idea.
Now, let me tell you something, how can you think that your \"partners\" are no more than NPC\'s? Even IF it were your race\'s culture, do you think other wives and husbands would like this? Do you think of wives (or husbands) in this game as prizes?!?!? Do you think you can just marry REAL women (or men) all you want, even though they may not like it? You know what those actions are like, it\'s like a dog. A dog runs around and pounces on all the female dogs and then just walks away like nothing happened. Now, if you are talking about \"divorcing\" your partner, then I am OK with that.
I want you to think, think about the person behind the screen, think about what she (or he) might think, if she (or he) ever found out about your other 13 wives. True, not all partnerships HAVE to be sexual, but these are still people who probaly grow up in countries that have sexual relationships, and only one women per man. She might get angry, get sad, you were CHEATING on her, ever thought of that? Now I don\'t know about you, but I didn\'t spend 2 days of technichal difficulties and downloads, to have this game turned into \"Cheater Shift\" or \"Have as many wives as you want Shift\"
End of disscusion.
Sheesh. Take a basic anthropology course when you get the chance.
Not all cultures see marriages as sexual, or emotional, or even as meaningful. Sometimes, marriages are merely political in nature, or partners are status symbals. Face it -- the ideas of marriage that we have in the west are ideas which belong to us, but not necessarily everyone else in the world.
And hey, this is a game! The meaning behind such partnerships is diminished even further.
I do have a friend who fell in love with someone she met in a game though. But they chatted a lot in game, then took it to msn and hit it off from there.
Edited for language in original quote.
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Originally posted by Nero da 2nd
All I have to say is...
If you guys think i\'m taking this game too seriously, fine. But really, marriges on a video game????? I think that\'s a topic above all, should be taken seriously....its real people people!
If it were my choice, there would be no marriages....
My final word on this post....
Karyuu, I know about those kinds of cultures, but about 90% of us aren\'t living in those kinds of cultures....
all I have to say is...
killing on a computer game???? murdering is a serious issue ... its real people behind the screens.. *roll eyes*
OK thats my point made.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Sheesh. Take a basic anthropology course when you get the chance.
And out of all the other opening phrases, you had to JUST tell me to go to class? Why can\'t you just leave it at \"I think you are wrong and here are the reasons why\"
Anyways, now reading on your posts, I guess i\'m admiting, I may be wrong. (I am saying this now because I know if I don\'t confess people will not stop quoting me) True, it is a game, though I am strongly agaisnt marriage altogether, I suppose this \"multi-marriage\" idea is probaly ok, it\'s only a game right? Now you little boys (or girls) can play house with your partners and have little marriages with each other and exchange fake words of love to each other through a video game because you can\'t get any in real life!!!!!(note to sarcasm, returning the favor zanzibar ; ))
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Originally posted by zorbels
:D Well that is wonderful in theory but there are more males in Yliakum than females. So the females following one male poses a problem........
;) So how about we switch it around, *chuckles* how about the females lead a pack of males?
That is because all of mine stay at home so that the rest of this devilish world will not shatter their little bit of hope on life. j/k
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more males enkis than females? is there an actual list, census like thing somehwere or that was just something you noticed while walking around yiliakum? I always wondered what was the ps world population most common/rarer species, professions, wepons of choice etc, you know a census of the current inhabitants of the stalactite
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Originally posted by Nero da 2nd
Originally posted by zanzibar
Sheesh. Take a basic anthropology course when you get the chance.
And out of all the other opening phrases, you had to JUST tell me to go to class? Why can\'t you just leave it at \"I think you are wrong and here are the reasons why\"
Anyways, now reading on your posts, I guess i\'m admiting, I may be wrong. (I am saying this now because I know if I don\'t confess people will not stop quoting me) True, it is a game, though I am strongly agaisnt marriage altogether, I suppose this \"multi-marriage\" idea is probaly ok, it\'s only a game right? Now you little boys (or girls) can play house with your partners and have little marriages with each other and exchange fake words of love to each other through a video game because you can\'t get any in real life!!!!!(note to sarcasm, returning the favor zanzibar ; ))
Not all marriages are built on love. Not all marriages even involve love by design.
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In-game relationships are a double-edged sword. Some people use it as an effective roleplay device to further a story - other people use online games as their own personal 1-900-NASTY-TEXT service. For people who have existing real-life relationships, this can even become quite destructive.
Keeping in-character things in character (and at least in my mind avoiding the emote-orgies that become way too common in MUDs), I believe the \"standard\" culture of planeshift has evolved to expect a marriage to be an exclusive matter. The Diaboli will most likely shun marriage, after all, it\'s almost religious! For those of you wishing a harem, officiated marriages are probably not the way to go.