PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: r.guppy on November 29, 2005, 08:25:49 pm
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I was wondering why you can claim a session in help, as this seems to me being abused by a few players and is forcing others who want to advise to give up or do the same, I feel this option was intended for long answers and not being greedy and claiming as many help questions as possible.
This was not a problem before the new duelling rules came into force, but feel it is not the reason it is happening, I think it is just a misguided belief that the more adviser points you get the better your chance of becoming a GM.
I know this is not the case as i have nearly 1500 AP. ?(
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Yes, advisor points have very little importance. So your only concern should be getting the right answer to the person who asks.
Claiming is there so you do not have two people typing out a long response to a question, only to have someoene else say a slightly shorter answer before you can hit enter.
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There\'s a rumour going around that sayed you need 300 :rolleyes: I have -16 :)
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This i agree with, the important thing is getting the right answer to the person, but a certain greedy person is beating all to the answers and to be blunt the advise given is often rude or unhelpful or even wrong. ?(
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When I see a wrong or incomplete answer, I usually use /tell to the advisor to inform him about it. And other advisors have done the same when I was wrong :]
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There should be a system in which the helper enters a command after helping, then the helpee gets a messge asking if the advice was helpful or not. If he says yes, then the helper gets an advisor point. Just my two trias.
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There was the whole thing about there being a test, to be taken before you were granted permission to become an advisor.
Also, a few notes on the advisor channel. It seems everyone is in agreement that it is used to help new players, therefore the information you give should be correct and polite. The claim feature is \'abused\' by quite a few i feel.
what i said here last wasnt too good of me, sorry.
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By Drey
yayoo, you are totaly out (or your informer) from what i have seen anyone can become a GM... Just befriend an existing GM, like Demarthl he\'ll see you in in no time. Also older players... quite easy for you too.
Sorry but don\'t agree and you know why:)
(Englishman who is bad speller:) )
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Advisor points used to be the way to become a GM, get 500 and your in basically, but that idea was thrown out the window because it was too soft of a screening process.
it is true that if you get to know a GM moreso, it raises ytour chances of getting in, but only if your truthful to them and yourself, to understand how you would act in certain situations, and to know your behaviour patters would help us too see if your suitable or not, however, this is not the only key to being a GM, there are several other main points that I\'m positiv e the community has been told about.
being an older player too increases your chances, if your a behaved player that is, as the community, GM\'s and Dev\'s would know you better, given that your the sensible type, like Nilaya, Ayshe, Bora and Pogopuschel, of whom i do beleive most were MB GM\'s, they\'re bound to become one if they so wish, who would stop someone from helping the community whos done it for at least a year before CB eh?
Sorry you didn\'t get in Janner, but sometimes we just have to say no, keep improving though, and no doubt one day you can
edited for reasons of sanity
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...
I was going to post a humorous jab at Drey\'s past claiming tactics, though he did actually answer stuff... Nevermind.
Please don\'t fight amongst yourselves here... take it back to the GM forum. :/
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Thank you for those encouraging words but being a GM was not what this post was meant to be about, i felt that attention should be brought to peoples notice what advice was meant for. That being helping others not helping yourself. :))
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I don\'t see why it has to be a 1-to-1 thing. There\'s really no reason multiple advisors couldn\'t give answers to the same person. This isn\'t a competition.
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Sorry but think that would lead to confusion if say replays all different who does he/she listen to.
At lest with one adviser if wrong they will soon reply to it.
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What I\'m thinking is multiple advisors could send advice messages to the same person. It could call them \"advisor 1\" and \"advisor 2\" or something dumb like that.
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a good idea. bad advice or an advisor who gets asked a tricky question could use some extra help.
that or it could completely baffle the player to the point where they decide to just shave their head, change their name to Rash Asharran and hand out flowers in airports.
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i think it should be pretty much 1 on 1 like janner said, if you have say 5 people shouting instructions at you are you going to have a clue what to do.
if you feel someone hasnt answered a question right there is always the /tell option to use. either to the advisor or the one asking for help.
and if there are questions you dont know a good way to learn is to watch how others answer the problem.
and you cant see the whole session so you dont really no the outcome the advisor may have added yo their first statement so thats something to watch out for.
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or, when the system is more developed, you could have a request for additional advice. either the advisor could ask for some (or have others ask to help) or the advisee could ask for a second opinion
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It has become the normal to clam the advice for almost all help now, so if you are a slow typer, or like me prefer to take time and get it right, you might as well forget it as speed rules. I Strongly fell this was not meant to be the case but it is the case.
X(
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Originally posted by r.guppy
It has become the normal to clam the advice for almost all help now, so if you are a slow typer, or like me prefer to take time and get it right, you might as well forget it as speed rules. I Strongly fell this was not meant to be the case but it is the case.
im not sure i understand what your problem with this system is.
when i ask for help in game all i care about is getting the right answer. i dont want the advisors squabbling over who-knows-best.
i do admit though that when i am advising and another advisor claims a session for themselves and then gives an inaccurate or indifferent answer to a question it becomes all the more annoying.
though to be honest ive never seen another advisor who doesnt claim a session for themselves from time to time, (except stronith, but only because he didnt know how), and that includes the GM\'s
the system in place at the moment is the fairest one available. a better way to do it however would to be to introduce some sort of random spot check, a gm could pose as a newb and ask a question. if they get an unhelpful or wrong answer the person who gave it to them could be deducted points or be banned from giving advice for a period of time, probably the latter since the points are essentialy worthless
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I have seen a player grab three sessions in a row then answer the the first question, so that is ok? In all the time i have been advising I have only calmed three that i remember, but to be honest don\'t see the point in it, so you may be typing a long answer, just at the last second to be beaten to it good for them i don\'t mind at all as i need the practice in typing and more important i need to learn to spell and I have found that doing advice is a good way to learn, as well as help players in need, so I fell grabbing sessions is nothing but greed.
X(
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Originally posted by r.guppy
I have seen a player grab three sessions in a row then answer the the first question, so that is ok?
were his/her answers wrong or innacurate an any way? no...then yes its ok.
Originally posted by r.guppy
In all the time i have been advising I have only calmed three that i remember,
ah but u admit you have done it though.
Originally posted by r.guppy
just at the last second to be beaten to it good for them i don\'t mind at all as i need the practice in typing and more important i need to learn to spell and I have found that doing advice is a good way to learn, as well as help players in need, so I fell grabbing sessions is nothing but greed.
X(
basically your only complaint with this system is the fact that your not as quick at typing as some players... does that about sum this thread up?
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I think your interest here is nothing to do with the reason for the thread, because if it was you would see that there is something wrong with calming 3 in a row then answering the first.
Yes i have done it for the reason partly stated here.
By stfrn
Claiming is there so you do not have two people typing out a long response to a question, only to have someone else say a slightly shorter answer before you can hit enter.
But my reason was so i could answer before the time out.
By c-2501
basically your only complaint with this system is the fact that your not as quick at typing as some players... does that about sum this thread up?
The answer to this is there if you bothered to read it.
Originally posted by r.guppy
just at the last second to be beaten to it good for them i don\'t mind at all
Just to remind you it is about \"I was wondering why you can claim a session in help\"
As yet no one how knows has said why.
So you know i have over 1500 Adviser Points and 1460 in hours online since the wipe, so no it is not because others are faster type\'s than me good luck to them.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
I think your interest here is nothing to do with the reason for the thread.
id be interested in knowing what you think my reasons for posting are then? no really i would.
if you mean claiming 3 sessions in a row and then ONLY answering the first then yes i do see a problem with that. if this happened why didnt you report the advisor to a GM?
if an advisor claims a session and then does not answer it in a predetemined ammount of time then i believe that the question should become public again and other advisors allowed to send a reply.
if YOU had read my posts then you would understan that i have replied to this thread for the same reasons i would respond to any other...because i wanted to give my opinions on the topic.
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By c-2501
Quote:
Originally posted by r.guppy
I think your interest here is nothing to do with the reason for the thread.
id be interested in knowing what you think my reasons for posting are then? no really i would.
I think your interest here is nothing to do with the reason for the thread, because if it was you would see that there is something wrong with calming 3 in a row then answering the first.
The answer was there right next to your quote from me i hi-lighted it in red so you see it better.
By c-2501
if you mean claiming 3 sessions in a row and then ONLY answering the first then yes i do see a problem with that. if this happened why didn\'t you report the advisor to a GM?
At the time there was no GM on line. Yes all three were answered but you miss the point 2 and 3 could have been answered by someone else
By c-2501
if an advisor claims a session and then does not answer it in a predetemined ammount of time then i believe that the question should become public again and other advisors allowed to send a reply.
True it does but time is wasted, and a player is left hanging.
By c-2501
if YOU had read my posts then you would understan that i have replied to this thread for the same reasons i would respond to any other...because i wanted to give my opinions on the topic.
I must have read it or who am i replying to?
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ok im tired of arguing with you janner so lets just leave it for now, your prefectly entitled to think what you like. but frankly i dont want to hear it.
now that the unpleasentness is over; on with the rest of the post
first let me be clear i am not doing a 180 on this issue but something i saw last night has made me reconsider.
noob asks: how do i get out of the DR?
the session was then claimed by another, which normally wouldent bother me, but this was the reply;
advisor: you have to find the portal out
I MEAN COME ON, i know were not supposed to give out exact locations and stuff but surely he/she could have done better than that. it was just this sort of attitude from advisors to my questions when i was new that almost put me off the game entirly.
in my opinion logs of all the advice sessions should be kept and people who give these sorts of answers should be punished (might i recomend to the Devs to put a set of Stoks in the plaza, or bring back the oracle!!)
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Originally posted by c-2501
noob asks: how do i get out of the DR?
the session was then claimed by another, which normally wouldent bother me, but this was the reply;
advisor: you have to find the portal out
I MEAN COME ON, i know were not supposed to give out exact locations and stuff but surely he/she could have done better than that.
And that is the most proper answer for this sort of questions!
Advisors are supposed to answer questions about game mechanics like interface or progression system. Not secrets of the world where your char is supposed to live. Just imagine, you are in real lost in some kind of dungeon and have completly no idea where is the way out. Can the player controlling you ask a question to an advisor? Hell no! There is no player and therefore no advisor!
Bah, think about it.
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Originally posted by Nikodemus
And that is the most proper answer for this sort of questions!
it may be propper but its hardly helpful or exhaustive of the subject, they could at least have added, \" its shaped like a giant head you have to enter the mouth\", they should have been given at least some clue as to what they were looking for. the new DR is far more complicated than the one that was there when i started playing.
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I would have also suggested that they ask someone in-game...
Basically, to get back to the main topic, I agree with r.guppy. You should only claim a question you plan to answer immediately with a long response. You should not claim three questions and then answer them one-by-one. You are short-changing the second two people who could have gotten help right away until you claimed their questions (this is even worse if answering the first question takes a long time).
I would love to see advisor points only be awarded if the advisee is happy with the advice. This means that advisors will actually need to spend time making sure that their responses are up to par.
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I spend at least half my time in game helping newcomers in one form or another. I have never really used the dvisor feature. I just find clueless looking characters and ask them if they need something. I then get tells from each asking for more help. I am glad to do it and dont mind guiding players, though I enjoyed finding most things out on my own when I started.
If you\'re helping cause you want to help then do it hands on and be there for the other character. When people write back a tell a week or too later asking something, I\'ll ask them if they used the help channel. Most of them say they tried that but got short rude answers that didn\'t help at all.
In fact I used help channel to say that /target_next_nearest_npc was not working anymore. I asked if the command had changed or was it a bug?
The reply:
See the ? in your menu.
Whoever wrote that is a lowlife and should not be able to advise any longer. The underscores, I found out, had been removed form the command and were now just sapces. This was not reflected in the Help Menu and it wasn\'t a bug. So some ignorant advisor took a call without even knowing the answer. I would suggest reading the question and make sure it is something you at least know the answer to.
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Originally posted by Jinkeen
In fact I used help channel to say that /target_next_nearest_npc was not working anymore. I asked if the command had changed or was it a bug?
The reply:
See the ? in your menu.
Whoever wrote that is a lowlife and should not be able to advise any longer. The underscores, I found out, had been removed form the command and were now just sapces. This was not reflected in the Help Menu and it wasn\'t a bug. So some ignorant advisor took a call without even knowing the answer. I would suggest reading the question and make sure it is something you at least know the answer to.
Yes, that is one of the reasons why advisors are always needed- the help menu, and the guide are not always updated when they should. In this case, there was some warning before, but there is no longer any mention that /target_* commands no longer uses spaces. The default commands are correct, but the correct help guide was not uploaded.
Advisors do not need to be perfect. However, when people ask questions, it is good to give them some answer.
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Maybe make it so that a person can take only one question at a time and the advised people can decided if give point or not.
I was never advisor and so i don\'t know if this help or not.
Is there anything else what can be done about this problem? Above two has been already suggested here in more or less obvious way.
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i think i agree with Cha0s on this issue, avisors should only be given points if the advisee(?) is happy with the answer they recieve
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Correct me if I\'m wrong, but didn\'t I bring up the advisee choosing points system before Chaos?
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Originally posted by Halvord
Correct me if I\'m wrong, but didn\'t I bring up the advisee choosing points system before Chaos? o_0
possibly but i have a very short attention span and may only have read back a few posts
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I am appalled that there is a claim system that is being abused. I was told to cancel a quest to reset it, and lost the quest. I had to trade an energy glyph to a player to get them to help me trade items back and forth, so I could get the quest reward.
Sorry about tirade, but I\'m leaving it. The point is this: New people need help, they don\'t need it fast, and they need it to be fair to them. We should be able to rate advisor help, and I am all for GMs testing advisors for rudeness(any advisor can be wrong, I believe the guy that steered me wrong was really trying to help: hence why I left tirade).
(Side note: Thanks to all the GMs and Advisors who went out of their way to help me! You went a little too far on a few occasions, but I promise it will pay off with me. I am one big softie! If I have extra high slash weapons, I\'m just liable to give them to someone who could truly use it.)
Kythag
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i might have all of one advisor point as a gm, though i just have it on to watch over things.
on the claiming mutiple sessions, i may have been known to claim maybe two or three sessions at once if you feel you can help why shouldnt you also when i want to i can type pretty well so there is no question of the people getting downgraded answers because im rushing to answer another. i have never had any complaints driected to me about advice (did i say this already) except once now i think about it... a mistake i make sometimes is /tell instead of /advice and ended up /telling some guy that life isnt fair and he was all like OMG WTF who is drey!!? blah blah.
also i have had complainst when /telling another advisor something to help with their advice.
one little annoyance about the advice channel being open to anyone is when you see players who have like 5 hours play time advising, leaves me thinking do they have anyclue what they are talking about and also what their motives are.
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1) I have helped plenty of people in game without the \"vast\" amounts of experience that you claim is needed. Someone with experience like me could field the simpler questions, freeing you \"experienced gurus\" to answer more difficult ones. This would allow more people help in the long run. I have even spread some of the help given to me by advisors to other players in need in appreciation of the help I had received.
2) Life isn\'t fair? That\'s a little blunt for someone who is asking for help. Couldn\'t you say something like, \"It is unfortunate, but this is how things are right now.\" ? I am aware that this game is in alpha stage and what that means, but there are people who don\'t understand that concept. These people are just gamers who found another game to play. Talking to them like that might drive them away.
3) All these people flaming Janner for his comments be aware: He is my favorite advisor that I know is an advisor. He takes his part in this very seriously and goes to great lengths to enhance this community and its players. I question anyone questioning his motives. It is obvious to me(someone who doesn\'t truly know him) that he cares about being an advisor. My question is this: Why don\'t you see that?
Disclaimer: I\'m not trying to offend, just put my two cents worth in to help in any way I can. If anything I say here offends anyone, I can only say, \"I\'m sorry\" and assure you that this is not my intention.
Kythag
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Originally posted by c-2501
though to be honest ive never seen another advisor who doesnt claim a session for themselves from time to time, (except stronith, but only because he didnt know how), and that includes the GM\'s
/me rubs his hands together with glee
I know now. :)
But that\'s only fair. I was very pleased to find out how to \'claim\' a question for the same legitimate reason that has been brought up earlier in the thread:
I prefer to use full sentences and be complete with any advice I can offer, and wasting my time only to see another advisor plunk down a short response ticks me off a little.
It took me asking 2 seasoned advisors to clear up the 500 points = GM thing, and it made no difference to me anyhow. Helping others understand the PS world and how it works (or does not work, as it may be) is important to maintaining a decent community. That is the reason I partake in the help channel.
I agree with the \"Did you find the advice helpful?\" feedback idea.
That\'s all I got, but I had to say something because I don\'t think I\'ve ever seen my name brought up in a thread I wasn\'t involved in. :)
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1) oh yes... i can number my points too. what i dont like to see from these people is a x asks how to get out of the dead place /advice x followed by a /advice x follow someone else out. or other things along those lines
2)
(15:06:05) Jeff asks: someone was stealing kills
(15:06:21) You advise: what was their name?
(15:06:26) Jeff asks: when someone was alreadt there..just came in and tried to taake over
(15:06:33) Jeff asks: its ok hes not doing it now
(15:06:48) You advise: well, do you own the spawn?
(15:07:08) Jeff asks: own it?
(15:07:25) You advise: what gives you right over him?
(15:07:53) Jeff asks: i was killing the tefusang at the spot before he came in ..and hejust came in and killed the next one right when it spawned
(15:08:49) You tell Jeff: maybe you should be quiker.. life isnt fair
(15:09:27) You advise: well next time use /who game to check for GMs
(15:09:41) Jeff asks: so your drey?
(15:09:54) You advise: nope
(15:10:22) Jeff asks: thats funny cus no one else knows about this
(15:10:32) You tell Jeff: shh
(15:10:43) Jeff asks: so an insult from nowhere is somewhat suspicious
(15:10:53) You advise: an insult?
(15:11:11) You tell Jeff: i didnt insult anyone
(15:11:12) Jeff tells you: and who are you?
(15:11:31) You advise: i am Drey your wonderful advisor
I dont see anythging wrong or blunt there, this \'jeff\' (probably not even his real name) was crying about nothing... i gave him his advice, all of what i said was true. (not the best side of my avising, but hey me>you)
3) no one has flamed janner simply added their own thoughts on the matter
and a word on your \'two cents\' you claim you are not trying to offend but you argue against stuff, i dont see how that works.
now posting with avatar of christmass cheer +3, drawn somewhere on the central line between bond street and marble arch.
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Originally posted by Stronith
/me rubs his hands together with glee
I know now. :)
yeah coz i told you :]
but seriously though you and drey are right, the claiming help is good if you want to give someone a full answer to a question, but it should not be used to give a stupidly simple(and usually unhelpful) sentance.
oh and kythag advising is annonynous so how do you know its janner whos been advising you? and who actually claimed an advisor needs vast ammounts of experience in order to help? ?(
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c-2501 If i may i will answer for him, Because if i run out of time advising I /tells the rest of the answer rather than wait for someone to have to repeat there request for answers. :))
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{one little annoyance about the advice channel being open to anyone is when you see players who have like 5 hours play time advising, leaves me thinking do they have anyclue what they are talking about and also what their motives are.} quoted from drey\'s post a few posts back.
1) Maybe \"flaming\" was too harsh a word, but there have been people being a little too harsh themselves in critcism of him. I apologize for using that word.
2) Drey wondered if someone with 5 hours in game should be advising. He\'s probably right about signing in to officially advise, but I helped several people that early on in the game without them having to use the help system.
3) My comments have been no more \"inflammatory\" than anyone else\'s here.
4) Janner once used /tell like he said to continue helping me after session timed out because he was still typing. Until this thread, he was the only advisor I knew was advising.
5) You are right, it wasn\'t rude in that case. My apologies again.
6) My disclaimer comes from the idea that my opinions sometimes get stated more strongly than I mean them. However, I will not apologize for my opinions because that is exactly what they are: opinions. I thought part of alpha stage was working out the kinks in the system, and I have felt like I was participating in that from the advisee standpoint.
If my opinions are wrong, no one has to listen to them.
Kythag
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ya i get that too and i have like 5000 ap whATS THE DEL WOTH THOSES
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No you don\'t :) Janner has the most advisor points at 1521.00 at the moment. Please do not spam.
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actually if we think about it properly Golmir does.
whATS THE DEL WOTH THOSES
like has already been stated... there isnt really a purpose to them. Tthough you can sit there and think wow arent i nice helping \'x\', in your case like 5000, many people.
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Come on spell his name right Gholmyrr, and at the moment he has 686 but will soon change as i have given up advising when he is on as he grabs the most, and i am not alone in giving up when he is on.
X(
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well... he got over 1500 as golmir... also the other one is hard to spell.
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only because you asked me to, point being he not very discreet:), there was also no need to clam few seconds more and he could have typed his reply. now do you get the point.
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janner, remove that picture.
theres nothing \'bad\' going on. you are just getting silly now, because you choose not to use the claim feature doesnt mean that no one else has the right to use it.
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By Drey
janner, remove that picture.
theres nothing \'bad\' going on. you are just getting silly now, because you choose not to use the claim feature doesnt mean that no one else has the right to use it.
I was not implying there was, just using it as an example.
1. It is well known that if you updated with the updater a mirror is bad and you need to re update as a [GM] he should know this.
2. He LIED. AS THE SCREEN SHOT PROVED THERE WAS NO gm ON LINE.
3. The time it took him to claim he could have typed his reply.
4. Why did he reply at all if all he had to do was bring his GM on and save player?
5. As i understand it once you have got your GM position you just monitor Advice and reply if no-one else does.
6. So I wonder what are his motives in advising at all, as he has what he wants, and further advising as Gholmyrr is depriving some other players from helping others. I strongly suggest he get off his fat ass and find out all the new stuff in game and get up to date instead of relying on others who have bothered to find and enjoy the new in game improvements.
O and Drey i was not and never have said no one is to use the option to claim, just don\'t use it to up your A.P. BY BEATING EVERY ONE ELSE TO IT. :P
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an example of what?
1. how do you know for sure
2. i thought he said a gm was on its way...?
3. and?
4. well... no one else seemed to have answerd the request, by reply he is letting the player know that help is on the way.
5. theres no rule that says that, if you ask me we should advise, and be the ones best geared up for the job. also in point three you say about \"the time it took\", if it has taken some time for him to do that it suggests that no one else was doing anything about it.
6. now 6... 6 was just plane rude, and honestly from someone your age. people may see me as being immature but when do i post things like that. as i understand he has been away recently do to things going on in real life (same as me). though im sure in the end the player got the help he needed
this whole \'dicussion\'is kinda silly, as long as the player gets the help they need then its all fine.
this post was created by sacrificing two dogs and a harmonic orchestra and feeding them to a bloody nice chap in need of a shave.
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By Dray
an example of what?
1. how do you know for sure
2. i thought he said a gm was on its way...?
3. and?
4. well... no one else seemed to have answerd the request, by reply he is letting the player know that help is on the way.
5. theres no rule that says that, if you ask me we should advise, and be the ones best geared up for the job. also in point three you say about \"the time it took\", if it has taken some time for him to do that it suggests that no one else was doing anything about it.
6. now 6... 6 was just plane rude, and honestly from someone your age. people may see me as being immature but when do i post things like that. as i understand he has been away recently do to things going on in real life (same as me). though im sure in the end the player got the help he needed
this whole \'dicussion\'is kinda silly, as long as the player gets the help they need then its all fine.
1.You wont me to post it again i will if required and log times too if required.
2.As the screenshot shows there was no GM online.
3.So why claim?
4.No one else got the chance.
5.You are a GM so you no better than me, so i cant argue just point out that is what i have seen other GM do.
6.Yes it was intended to be, As my hours on line show i was around a lot not just clocking hours but doing things and was there when he popped in, and it was me that talked to him when no one else bothered.
Big deal i am 49 you are i believe 17, so what i have feelings too age does not matter it is how you fell does.
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1. well... to be honest i could think of nothing to say for point one :P
2. on its way doesnt mean a GM has to be online, though one did happen to pass by. maybe you would rather he said \'wait a minute a GM will be with you soon\' its all the same. he can make a GM appear at will so he would know if one is on its way or not.
yes, 17, im not saying age matters... just that it doesnt harm to act it once in a while. even i know that.
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GMs perform two primary functions in the game.
1. They help players overcome problems, that are difficult or impossible, for them to solve themselves: they teach, entertain, and generally make themselves useful.
2. They keep players from interfering with the play of others.
They have a third function, that is nearly trivial.
They enforce the rules of style.
They make sure no one is named for a famous person, corporation, software product or a sex act.
Janner dear,
You are quite right, that anyone who habitually claims more than one question at a time, is probably doing so, solely to gain adviser points as quickly as possible.
You are quite right to point out, that someone who will do that, cares about the advisor points an awful lot more than they do about the players that need help.
And you are quite right to be extremely concerned about the motives of such a person, and worry whether they might damage the game, should they become a GM.
If GMs are Teachers, PS will become a place of discovery and wonder, and players will compete for the honor of talking to a GM.
If GMs are Policemen, then PS will become a prison camp, and players will do their best to avoid gaining a GMs attention.
No one who is more interested in the second and third functions, than the first, should be allowed to be a GM.
Verrliit
ps. There is a way for Janner to overcome his text-speech impediment. All he needs is three times the shortcut buttons that he has now, and a little help editing them, which I and a hundred others would be glad to volunteer...
He has a heart as big as the world, a ton of time, and he wants to help.
(Adn fi yuo dndi\'t udnerstnad, taht I hvae olny repaeted waht Jnnaer siad, tehn eh si nto jsut hrad fo speaknig, yuo rae hrad fo listnenig.)
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Originally posted by Verrliit
They have a third function, that is nearly trivial.
They enforce the rules of style.
They make sure no one is named for a famous person, corporation, software product or a sex act.
Nearly trivial? Verrliit, this is one of the most important duties of a GM :)
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Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Verrliit
They have a third function, that is nearly trivial.
They enforce the rules of style.
They make sure no one is named for a famous person, corporation, software product or a sex act.
Nearly trivial? Verrliit, this is one of the most important duties of a GM :)
Fail to do number one, or number two, and play will be significantly damaged, very quickly.
I have seen a number of names, along the lines of \"Coitusin Terruptus\" and \"Threed Smax\" play for weeks or months without causing any problems.
Yes, names like these should probably be changed, but the effect on play, and on the other players is trivial.
On the other hand, for the player who has their name changed by force...
If they had played the name, and begun to live it as an identity, then to have it changed by force, against their will, is emotionally similar to being raped.
I have seen players in shock over it for weeks.
Do not make PS the place where the Style Police live.
The greatest enemies of Roleplay, are lack of imagination, and unnecessary rules.
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unnecessary rules?
so we should let a shortened version of \'richard head\' run around the world full knowing what his name makes people think?
all the rules put up in the naming policy are to stay, wether you like it or not is your opinion, and frankly if you don\'t like it, you can always leave, its not like this fully-free-pre-alpha-tech-demo-made-in-spare-time-by-fulltime-working-people-as-a-hobby is keeping you here
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Karyuu is one of the few people that have welcomed me to this game. Others either don\'t care or have openly attacked me for having ideas different from theirs. You say to thank these people often, yet you accuse them of being on the verge of style police. Style police are needed.
I find names to be informative and entertaining. I see Raistlin Hythan or Joseph Majere and ask,\"Dragonlance fan much?\" I see the other hidden off-color names to be funny as well. The point is not everyone shares this view. This offends some people and others are being \"raped\" from the copyright infringement.
Karyuu didn\'t say the other rules were unimportant. What he said was that rule three was \"one of the most important\" meaning it is counted among the important rules.
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As we seam now to be talking name rules haw about your name Keyaz.
going by naming rules what say you to this. Follow this link.
http://www.redcafe.net/member.php?find=lastposter&t=83971
World Famous English football team. Wizard Keyaz
Reserve Team Player.
To me being English auto think you must be famous to be linked to such a famous football team. So must be against rules?
But i will be first to admit some names need changing and must be.
But what if a name in say italian is rude, even slang meaning, should it be banned, even though to the rest of world just see a name?
Love to find more examples but must get kids ready for school. :))
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Originally posted by Verrliit
If they had played the name, and begun to live it as an identity, then to have it changed by force, against their will, is emotionally similar to being raped.
Comparing name-changing in a game to rape? Unbelievable. The naming rules pop up whenever a player goes through character creation. If he or she fails to comply, he or she has to deal with the consequences. And frankly if something as simple as this is such a shock, I would recommend seeking professional help, and I am absolutely serious.
Janner: Keyaz is Zayek inverted. You are doing more analyzing than necessary, and more-over (this has been stated before) GMs are OOC unless specifically involved in an RP event, in which case they often change names. GMs are the policemen in the game.
Kythag: She, not he ;) *shakes paws*
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Originally posted by Verrliit
I have seen a number of names, along the lines of \"Coitusin Terruptus\" and \"Threed Smax\" play for weeks or months without causing any problems.
if you see this kind of thing all the time why dont you petition the GM\'s to have the persons name changed?
Originally posted by Verrliit
On the other hand, for the player who has their name changed by force...
If they had played the name, and begun to live it as an identity, then to have it changed by force, against their will, is
emotionally similar to being raped.
OMFG do you have even the slightest comprehension of what you just said?
i would love to tell you just what i think of this comment but i can guarentee the post would be deleted within minutes
THIS IS A GAME how you can possibly make that comarison is compleatly and utterly rediculous.
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Originally posted by Verrliit
If they had played the name, and begun to live it as an identity, then to have it changed by force, against their will, is emotionally similar to being raped.
Verrliit, you are going too far with this. Tell to somebody who has been raped, that don\'t worry, it is nothing more than your name changed in a computer game. Stop doing it if you want some respect from other people.
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By Karyuu
Janner: Keyaz is Zayek inverted. You are doing more analyzing than necessary, and more-over (this has been stated before) GMs are OOC unless specifically involved in an RP event, in which case they often change names. GMs are the policemen in the game.
Kythag: She, not he ;) *shakes paws*
First of sorry she :) But my point being is two fold.
1. Do you read small print on every thing i don\'t , most don\'t. I see Keyaz, and a simple search found that.
2. New player starts creation, box pops up were do i get rid of that want to play game, read that later, in game 5 to 10 mins no clue what\'s going on, then the please for help start, i am new what do i do?
I picked the name at random just for a example, i understand as a GM the rules are different.
P.S. just done same with your name using Google. OPPS just done mine Janner I will shut up.
:))
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This thread is going offtopic and this might be my first message that gets deleted :)
Originally posted by r.guppy
P.S. just done same with your name using Google. OPPS just done mine Janner I will shut up.
Janner, you saved my day :D
The Janner Textbook (http://www.stevebond2k.eurobell.co.uk/janner.htm)
Please, do not take it personally ;)
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nice fact, world famous football team? wizard Keyaz? not famous if i havent heard of it, and I haven\'t
like Karyuu said, it\'s just Zayek backwards, the chance that its some poor sods real name must be about a billion to one.
if you want to be super analysish, google Demarthl
chock horror... no wait... every result is linked to me :|
the rules don\'t differ for GM\'s
if someone finds my IC \'Keyaz\' so offensive I\'ll just change it
I\'m not bothered about name changes!
so why the hell should anyone else be.
someone should only take offense when their name is changed if they have used it for along time in many places, it abides by the rules clearly and they have their character history if their name is like that and it\'s changed, they have the right to complain.
if they don\'t, shut up, frankly :)
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Originally posted by Kythag
Karyuu is one of the few people that have welcomed me to this game. Others either don\'t care or have openly attacked me for having ideas different from theirs. You say to thank these people often, yet you accuse them of being on the verge of style police. Style police are needed.
/me for style police person of th year, and also if you would have made a hello im new thread you prolly would have got a welcoming from me, http://qdb.ps-mc.com/?388
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Now you see why i shut up. :))
Janner, you saved my day
The Janner Textbook
Please, do not take it personally
none taken. OR arrr thatbe ofay :))
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Originally posted by c-2501
Originally posted by Verrliit
I have seen a number of names, along the lines of \"Coitusin Terruptus\" and \"Threed Smax\" play for weeks or months without causing any problems.
if you see this kind of thing all the time why dont you petition the GM\'s to have the persons name changed?
When I see a marginal name, played by a well-behaved player, I say nothing. They did nothing to interfere with the play of others, and they could easily be a highly respected Oldbie from MB or before, like Harvey Wallbanger is.
Originally posted by c-2501
Originally posted by Verrliit
On the other hand, for the player who has their name changed by force...
If they had played the name, and begun to live it as an identity, then to have it changed by force, against their will, is
emotionally similar to being raped.
OMFG do you have even the slightest comprehension of what you just said?
i would love to tell you just what i think of this comment but i can guarentee the post would be deleted within minutes
THIS IS A GAME how you can possibly make that comarison is compleatly and utterly rediculous.
I just love when this happens. The same people who tell others how to play, and yell loudest about RP, do not understand that if you really RP, it is no longer just a game.
Yes, the character\'s life is fiction. But if you RP, the emotions are as real as RL, by definition. You do not just play-act, cowboys and indians, or Barbie-doll style. You live the story that you create, while you are within the world of Yliakum.
Your name is who you are, the title of the story that you live. All who know you, and are part of your story, attach to you, and identify you and your story, by your name alone.
I have played about 2000 hours as Verrliit. To change my name now, would end my story. Even though I have touched hundreds of other names, I would suddenly be a complete stranger again. To force me to change my name at this point, would be more than rape. It would be murder.
Originally posted by Keyaz
I\'m not bothered about name changes!
so why the hell should anyone else be.
Well, Keyaz/Zayek/Demarthl/ etc, etc, etc, etc... Perhaps because they have created a story they care about continuing...
Keyaz\'s signature
\"If you be yourself, people will like you more!\"
\"I know I know, but, when I do... why do I always feel hurt?\"
~Even though I feel like I\'m dying inside, I know that I have the best friend anyone could ever have
And perhaps the multiple-personality-name-change thing may not be working out for you as well as you think.
Verrliit.
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/me strains his eyes to read Verrliit\'s text.
Dark font and the Planeshift forum skin don\'t mix. >_>
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Originally posted by Verrliit
When I see a marginal name, played by a well-behaved player, I say nothing. They did nothing to interfere with the play of others, and they could easily be a highly respected Oldbie from MB or before, like Harvey Wallbanger is.
And I\'m very adamant about making absolutely no distinction between AB/MB oldbies and CB newbies :) The naming rules make absolutely no distinction as well. To be the respected and contributing member of the community that you yearn for so much, your duties include reporting those that disobey our rather necessary rules. Not let them fly by. But even if you choose not do, that\'s fine. But defending those who choose a name that falls outside of the naming rules on the grounds of \"it\'s rape,\" is appealing to emotion more than making logical arguments - a method you seem to enjoy using in every one of your posts, Verrliit. I understand that there is a lot of emotion involved in roleplay, and yet however:
I just love when this happens. The same people who tell others how to play, and yell loudest about RP, do not understand that if you really RP, it is no longer just a game.
This is a mistake I have seen many people make, and have made numerous times myself. Thankfully I am now past the stage where my character and I get into the same emotional woes and drama, because we are separate beings. Roleplaying yourself, or getting so emotionally caught up in the game, is a very, very unhealthy thing to do, Verrliit.
Yes, the character\'s life is fiction. But if you RP, the emotions are as real as RL, by definition. You do not just play-act, cowboys and indians, or Barbie-doll style. You live the story that you create, while you are within the world of Yliakum.
I cannot help but feel, again, that this is a giant mistake. We are actors in a play - but the play is not real. The stage is not real, the props aren\'t real, and our words, the words we utter through the mouths of our avatars, are not real. It is very important indeed to feel as if you are deep in the land if Yliakum, but no one must ever lose themselves in it to the extent that a game becomes your life. That is an illness.
I have played about 2000 hours as Verrliit. To change my name now, would end my story. Even though I have touched hundreds of other names, I would suddenly be a complete stranger again. To force me to change my name at this point, would be more than rape. It would be murder.
Thankfully, no one named inappropriately would ever be allowed to play 2000 hours. You can scream rape and bloody murder all you want, as inappropriate as that is, but the naming rules stay.
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on the subject of naming rules i dont agree with the idea of names being permitted if you provide a rp history.
also i think there is wet ocming out of my keyboard
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On names it took 4 months i think for someone to make a connection to one of my guild to a book/movie.
So his last name was changed, I have been hear nearly a year and only just found out there is a lord Janner, So must my name be changed and my guilds name.?
Back to thread subject
Why not drop claiming as it is not really needed in my view, if you genuinely wont to help type away and if you get piped to it good for them.
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Originally posted by r.guppy
my
... need anymore be said?
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Originally posted by Karyuu
To be the respected and contributing member of the community that you yearn for so much, your duties include reporting those that disobey our rather necessary rules.
I already have the respect of those I respect.
I create art, I teach, I inspire, I encourage and help, and I provoke thought.
Sure, if I see someone who is named George Bush, something crude and sexual, or disruptive to play, I will act to remove the problem.
But I have seen the GMs that think as you do, obsessively change names like Carpe Noctem, that do not offend, are not famous, and do not interfere with play in any way.
That unnecessary cure is worse than the disease.
To change a name, very seriously interferes with play.
You tell me that I have a duty to help you do that to players who have caused no trouble whatever.
I think not.
I would have to be a GM or a forum moderator, to have duties.
I do not want to be either one.
I came here to create and to play, not to control people.
Originally posted by Karyuu
I just love when this happens. The same people who tell others how to play, and yell loudest about RP, do not understand that if you really RP, it is no longer just a game.
This is a mistake I have seen many people make, and have made numerous times myself. Thankfully I am now past the stage where my character and I get into the same emotional woes and drama, because we are separate beings.
So your solution to the intensity of your feelings was to detatch from them?
You do know, don\'t you, that if you and your character are separate beings, then you are schizophrenic? I think you probably mean losing control, or losing track of what parts are real and what are fiction, instead.
Originally posted by Karyuu
Roleplaying yourself, or getting so emotionally caught up in the game, is a very, very unhealthy thing to do, Verrliit.
Nothing unhealthy about it, at all. Though your character is fiction, your interaction with other players is very real indeed. There is nothing wrong with feeling, no matter how intense it gets.
Yes, the character\'s life is fiction. But if you RP, the emotions are as real as RL, by definition. You do not just play-act, cowboys and indians, or Barbie-doll style. You live the story that you create, while you are within the world of Yliakum.
It is losing the boundary between reality and fiction, that is unhealthy. It is not unhealthy to be passionate, or to have emotions. Just the opposite. It is unhealthy to suppress them.
I had the incredible good fortune to have fallen in love, as Verrliit, and had an affair that lasted for months. The love was real, and reciprocated, and there was not, and never will be, anything wrong with feeling love, or sorrow or joy or anything else.
I appreciate your concern for my safety, Karyuu. I do play to the extremes of what I am able to do.
But I am not confused. I know the difference between my fantasy and the real world. I have been doing Role-play for more than thirty years.
Verrliit
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Since it seems this thread covers 2 threads actualy i\'ll try to state my opinion on both.
1. About the claiming of advice sessions...
Here\'s the deal: The help channel was, and i think still is, ment for helping others. There are 2 things though that have turned advising into a competition though, the posibillity of becoming a GM based on adv points and the top 5 advisors list. A simple solution for turning the help channel into a helpfull channel would be to take out the top 5 advisors list from the laanx server and since it has already been stated in another thread that the adv points are not so important and definately not a key in becoming GM the problem is solved.
2. Naming policy
I think that comon sense should be aplied regarding the naming policy. I\'ve seen names that are not actualy fit for names but having a name like \"Bob\" i don\'t think damages RP or anything. I\'ve said it alot of times and i\'ll keep saying that the biggest mistake people do when trying to set some rules for PS is that they compare Yliakum with the real world. I mean i know some people names Bob or John or whatever and i know those are names fit for a let\'s say \"teran\" but Eolius doesn\'t know about Earth so a name like Bob should sound preety much Yliakean for him. I\'m not saying that names like \"Sexinthe Oven\" should be alowed because the aforementioned means perhaps something in Yliakean too and it is rude and offensive but let\'s not change names everytime somebody reads a book and finds out that the name of the main hero in that book was \"Janner\" (this is just an example). And besides that i rewally dout that any of your characters has heared about the english footbal team and about Keyaz being a footbal player. Or if so i wonder why didn\'t i saw a footbal field in the arena ^_^.
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I think the help channel issue has been discussed thoroughly, and there is another thread open by Pestilence concerning becoming a GM that further discusses advisor points. The naming tangent didn\'t really belong here, and is best not continued ;)