PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: zanzibar on December 02, 2005, 01:58:33 am
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People seem to have weird ideas about roleplaying in planeshift.
What do you consider to be other games, not computer games but any kind of game, which have roleplaying?
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Well, any kind of game on a console is roleplaying, since you don\'t walk up to a person, press X, and say \"lol n00b st0p f0lowin meh!1\"
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
Well, any kind of game on a console is roleplaying, since you don\'t walk up to a person, press X, and say \"lol n00b st0p f0lowin meh!1\"
Console?
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You know, a video game console. PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, etc.
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Originally posted by Suno_Regin
You know, a video game console. PS2, Gamecube, Xbox, etc.
You mean like FF? You consider that to be roleplaying?
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Originally posted by zanzibar
What do you consider to be other games, not computer games but any kind of game, which have roleplaying?
You\'re getting better and better \\o/
Not only the two sentences which form the starting post have no apparent connection, but also the second sentence is ridiculously complicated, to the point of being hard to understand.
So the question is what we consider to be non-computer games with a role-playing value.
Asides the obvious question, what does it have to do with Planeshift;
Isn\'t RPG the obvious answer?
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Originally posted by Draklar
So the question is what we consider to be non-computer games with a role-playing value.
I think he meant all games including, but not limited to, computer games. Though you wouldn\'t know it by the way he said it...
The rest, however, is probably just as pointless as his other threads (most notably his most recent). and no good can come of trying to make sense of it.
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I think he meant all games including, but not limited to, computer games. Though you wouldn\'t know it by the way he said it...
I suspect your statement is inconsistant. You claim to have an interpretation, and then also claim that interpretation is impossible from the statement alone (plus an implicit understanding of english sentence construction). So.. are you psychic? And if so, do you use your powers for good, or for awesome?
Roleplaying happens in .. well, \'role-playing\' games, like D&D, some MUDs, and some MMORPGs (or at least between a certain group of people in MUDs and MMORPGs). It also happens in theatre, where the roleplay is pre-ordained, excepting improv theater. Roleplaying can happen in strategy or war games like Diplomacy, or even Monopoly if you want to play the game that way.
Is there such a thing as roleplaying in single-character games? I think so, to the extent that you can make choices which are (to the player) not necessarily \"optimal\" but are consistant with a fictional characters view of things. But in a single-player game, you\'ll take less flak for cheating, and the satisfaction is purely from knowing that when YOU slew the green dragon, YOU did it without breaking character, while the kid down the street robbed all the houses in town in order to buy the Sword of Ultimate Good +3.
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Originally posted by dfryer
I suspect your statement is inconsistant. You claim to have an interpretation, and then also claim that interpretation is impossible from the statement alone (plus an implicit understanding of english sentence construction). So.. are you psychic? And if so, do you use your powers for good, or for awesome?
I am guessing he put into consideration what zanz could mean by what he said (ever tried to interpret poetry? :P), giving room for possibility (which is quite high in the author\'s case :P) that the sentence might not express correctly what he tried to pull forward.
That\'s what I did at start as well, but then assumed, following logical function of (c ^ g), where c - non-computer, g - any game; Would be much safer :P
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Roleplaying in other games? meh never heard of it :P.. but seriously in any of the Major MMORPGs to find someone who is actually RPing is more rare then playing a whole day in PS without getting kicked... I do have a friend who is a better RPer than myself and he RPs 100% of the time while in FF XI.. But as for console games.. i dont look at it as true RP.. if your not interacting with other things that can interact then it doesnt seem like RP to me. And, call me lame.. uncreative or whatever but i tend to name the lead character after myself still :P.
Really, other than those few D&D dorks who RP all the time (and I mean those who do it in RL) i hadnt encountered RP until i came here.. now I hadnt played a ton of online games so im sure its out there..
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
What do you consider to be other games, not computer games but any kind of game, which have roleplaying?
You\'re getting better and better \\o/
Not only the two sentences which form the starting post have no apparent connection, but also the second sentence is ridiculously complicated, to the point of being hard to understand.
So the question is what we consider to be non-computer games with a role-playing value.
Asides the obvious question, what does it have to do with Planeshift;
Isn\'t RPG the obvious answer?
i) People in the planeshift community have notions of what is and what is not roleplaying.
ii) These notions seem weird to me in light of my previous experiences with role playing.
iii) What do you consider to be examples of role playing in other games?
iv) By other games, I do not mean only computer games.
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Originally posted by dfryer
I think he meant all games including, but not limited to, computer games. Though you wouldn\'t know it by the way he said it...
I suspect your statement is inconsistant. You claim to have an interpretation, and then also claim that interpretation is impossible from the statement alone (plus an implicit understanding of english sentence construction). So.. are you psychic? And if so, do you use your powers for good, or for awesome?
Don\'t give too much time to their complaints. They\'re just bitter from me pwning them in other discussions. This is their way of dealing with their insecurities. ;)
Originally posted by dfryer
Roleplaying happens in .. well, \'role-playing\' games, like D&D, some MUDs, and some MMORPGs (or at least between a certain group of people in MUDs and MMORPGs). It also happens in theatre, where the roleplay is pre-ordained, excepting improv theater. Roleplaying can happen in strategy or war games like Diplomacy, or even Monopoly if you want to play the game that way.
The power of charisma is definately underrated in Monopoly. The same is true for Risk, Settlers, Illuminati, Chaos Magic, all those games we know from kids camp. Of course those elements aren\'t ~necessarily~ there, and you can play each of them in a completely mechanical way. That is, playing within a rule set which takes into account chance operations such as card drawing and rolling dice (care floppers and dice chuckers). With AD&D and it\'s spin offs, there is a lot more at play, and those mechanical chance operations are more hidden. I roll a dice, but I don\'t hit my enemy with a XX damage fireball. The dungeon master uses flowerly language to make it more visual and imaginative...
Me: \"Ok, I cast fireball and roll 3d6... 5, 5, 6... I get +2 to each because I\'m a 5th level elementalist with specialization in pyromancy\"
DM: Scorching flames extend from your hands towards the two archers in the tree. The entire campsite is filled with light as if it were daylight - the archers are incinerated and their bodies fall to the ground, black with char. Roll sense perception... you notice the smell of smoke in the air. You\'ve started a forest fire.\"
But is even that role playing? Or deciding which way to turn down a maze? I suspect that many people in this community would say, no. That\'s simply mechanical. I\'m not inclined to agree automatically, but this is part of what I want to get at.
Originally posted by dfryer
Is there such a thing as roleplaying in single-character games? I think so, to the extent that you can make choices which are (to the player) not necessarily \"optimal\" but are consistant with a fictional characters view of things. But in a single-player game, you\'ll take less flak for cheating, and the satisfaction is purely from knowing that when YOU slew the green dragon, YOU did it without breaking character, while the kid down the street robbed all the houses in town in order to buy the Sword of Ultimate Good +3.
Or maybe he stayed at the red ogre in and slept for 3 hours three times in a row then saved, relogged in, then opened the cupboards to find them full of daedric weaponry. Err, I mean....
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Don\'t give too much time to their complaints. They\'re just bitter from me pwning them in other discussions. This is their way of dealing with their insecurities. ;)
I don\'t think anyone else on these forums commits as much argumentum ad hominem as you do...
Learn to avoid using logical fallacies before saying you \"pwn\" anyone in discussion... Actually don\'t say that at all. It\'s lame.
Now back to the \"topic\":
\"What do you consider to be examples of role playing in other games?\"
Any form of activity that involves \'pretending\' to be someone else.
For examples use \"Pretending to be I honestly don\'t see what else can be said on this topic...
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Originally posted by dfryer
You claim to have an interpretation, and then also claim that interpretation is impossible from the statement alone (plus an implicit understanding of english sentence construction).
I think it is impossible from the statement alone. If I didn\'t know who wrote the thread I would assume what Draklar did without a second thought...but since it is zanzibar I put a little more effort then usual into using context to determine what he might be attempting to say. I don\'t see how that makes it inconsistant?
In any case, what role-playing games are depends on the individual person in my opinion...as long as the individual is pretending to be someone they\'re not, that is role-playing as per the definition itself. As far as a \"game\" goes, that also depends on the individual.
What is a role-playing game? Exactly what our friend the dictionary tells us it is.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Originally posted by zanzibar
Don\'t give too much time to their complaints. They\'re just bitter from me pwning them in other discussions. This is their way of dealing with their insecurities. ;)
I don\'t think anyone else on these forums commits as much argumentum ad hominem as you do...
Learn to avoid using logical fallacies before saying you \"pwn\" anyone in discussion... Actually don\'t say that at all. It\'s lame.
Now back to the \"topic\":
\"What do you consider to be examples of role playing in other games?\"
Any form of activity that involves \'pretending\' to be someone else.
For examples use \"Pretending to be I honestly don\'t see what else can be said on this topic...
It\'s ok. I understand that you\'re simply acting out to establish an online persona in a medium which can be harsh and judgemental.:)
The definition you gave is one I tend to agree with. \"pretending to be _____ \". However, people here don\'t seem to agree with you and me. If you were to pretend to be a gladiator who spent his whole life going between fighting at the arena and eating and sleeping at the tavern, you would be RPing according to that definition. However, many people in this community would frown upon it as \"not-RP\".
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Originally posted by zanzibar
However, many people in this community would frown upon it as \"not-RP\".
So, were you asking this in order to hear people\'s opinion on it, or so you could point out the flaws of other people?
This is what I\'ve found to generally be the point of your posts and why most of them are so obscure because you don\'t want to say it directly for some reason.
I ask this while assuming that I know what your reply would/is going to be, if it is at all like any of your others, but I wonder at the validity of it.
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Originally posted by Kiern
Originally posted by zanzibar
However, many people in this community would frown upon it as \"not-RP\".
So, were you asking this in order to hear people\'s opinion on it, or so you could point out the flaws of other people?
How in grace is disagreeing with the opinion of another person the same thing as pointing out the flaws of that person? You have a seriously twisted mind my friend.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
How in grace is disagreeing with the opinion of another person the same thing as pointing out the flaws of that person? You have a seriously twisted mind my friend.
I was asking whether you made the thread because you were actually curious about people\'s opinions or because you wanted to prove some other people wrong. It\'s about motivation...the purpose of your thread...not whether or not you\'re disagreeing with someone.
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Originally posted by Kiern
Originally posted by zanzibar
How in grace is disagreeing with the opinion of another person the same thing as pointing out the flaws of that person? You have a seriously twisted mind my friend.
I was asking whether you made the thread because you were actually curious about people\'s opinions or because you wanted to prove some other people wrong. It\'s about motivation...the purpose of your thread...not whether or not you\'re disagreeing with someone.
Actually, what you said was:
Originally posted by Kiern
So, were you asking this in order to hear people\'s opinion on it, or so you could point out the flaws of other people? This is what I\'ve found to generally be the point of your posts...
You would do better to assume better of others rather than the worst. Of course, I\'m convinced you have alterior motivations for being such a.... character.:) But as fun as these little flame fests are, let\'s not get off topic. Some people like Draklar actually have interesthing things to say from time to time, why not talk about those points instead of why you think I start threads?
Originally posted by Kiern
I don\'t see much of a difference between my two posts, one is just more clear than the other. It would help if you bothered with an explanation, but I know that won\'t happen.
First, there is a difference between the two posts, whether you intended it or not. Second, I already gave an explanation when Draklar suggested that my language was unclear. I believe that an explanation wasn\'t necessary in the first place, but I gave clarification as a courtesy.
No. You\'re after something else. Instead of contributing to discussions, you accuse me time and time again of making threads simply to ridicule or criticise other people in this community. That accusation is nothing but an extension of your own personal paranoia and malliciousness. Please take control of your insecurities and exercise the self-control necessary to prohibit yourself from acting out on others in such a wasteful way. It would also be nice if you stopped putting so much energy into trying to make threads to go off topic.
Now, I\'ve told you this in other threads, and it has not stopped being true: If you have anything to contribute to the discussion, I would hear it gladly. Others have already made interesting and intelligent contributions, and there\'s nothing, except for pride, to stop you from joining their ranks.
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Originally posted by zanzibar
You would do better to assume better of others rather than the worst. Of course, I\'m convinced you have alterior motivations for being such a.... character.:) But as fun as these little flame fests are, let\'s not get off topic. Some people like Draklar actually have interesthing things to say from time to time, why not talk about those points instead of why you think I start threads?
First, I don\'t see much of a difference between my two posts, one is just more clear than the other. It would help if you bothered with an explanation, but I know that won\'t happen.
Disregarding that, you have well over 1000 posts, and from reading them I think I can make a somewhat correct assumption of your motivations behind them. And since you always refuse to answer me when I question your reasoning I can only make the assumption that I\'m right about them.
In all of these posts, you\'ve given me no reason to think \"better\" of you, so why would I?
The topic at hand is finished, unless you have something to add to it. Which is what I was attempting to get you to do by figuring out your reasoning for creating it in the first place because you apparently are not satisfied with the answers given. Saying something to the effect of \"but others disagree\" gives Draklar (and others) nothing to refute, stagnating the conversation.
I\'m interested in these ulterior motives you seem to think I have, but I\'d be shocked if you were to explain that. I have little to no connections to Planeshift, and the little I do related to it is (now) here in public view. In any case, it has nothing to do with this conversation.
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Precisely.
And by the way, you\'re going too far with certain things,
Originally posted by zanzibar
It\'s ok. I understand that you\'re simply acting out to establish an online persona in a medium which can be harsh and judgemental.:)
Your personal attacks are tiring me, zanzibar. Quit trolling around.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Precisely.
And by the way, you\'re going too far with certain things,
Originally posted by zanzibar
It\'s ok. I understand that you\'re simply acting out to establish an online persona in a medium which can be harsh and judgemental.:)
Your personal attacks are tiring me, zanzibar. Quit trolling around.
I\'m not attacking you at all, my friend. ;)
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Originally posted by zanzibar
First, there is a difference between the two posts, whether you intended it or not. Second, I already gave an explanation when Draklar suggested that my language was unclear. I believe that an explanation wasn\'t necessary in the first place, but I gave clarification as a courtesy.
You\'re right, I didn\'t exactly type word for word what I said. If there\'s any difference then that you would have to explain it and saying that they are different is NOT explaining it. And you clarified nothing about your motivations only what you meant in your regular post.
Originally posted by zanzibar
No. You\'re after something else. Instead of contributing to discussions, you accuse me time and time again of making threads simply to ridicule or criticise other people in this community. That accusation is nothing but an extension of your own personal paranoia and malliciousness. It would also be nice if you stopped putting so much energy into trying to make threads to go off topic.
This is ridiculous. Quit pulling arguments out of thin air. I have never accused you of making threads to ridicule other people aside from this thread, I have merely criticized you for making completely trivial and pointless threads in past topics. I am attempting to ADD TO this topic, not bring it off-topic by figuring out WHAT YOU WANT from it. But you keep dragging it completely away from that by accusing me of having \"ulterior motives\".
Originally posted by zanzibar
Now, I\'ve told you this in other threads, and it has not stopped being true: If you have anything to contribute to the discussion, I would hear it gladly. Others have already made interesting and intelligent contributions, and there\'s nothing, except for pride, to stop you from joining their ranks.
I replied to your original topic, it was only after everyone more or less AGREED and I saw that you were not satisfied that I brought the rest up. And yet you can\'t answer a simple damn question but expect everyone else to.
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I\'ve already answered your question. There is no \"secret agenda\" to my threads. Now stop spamming. :|
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(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/3707/evenkittenscannot0dr8io.jpg)
But YOU can! By addressing the original post/topic in this discussion and avoiding quoting/replying to the mess that happened afterwards, for it shall either be deleted or closed once more. Please :)
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roleplaying = anything not ooc.
So there\'s loads of roleplaying in lots of games. The best roleplaying is when a person isn\'t making an effort to roleplay. So any board game, PC game, pen and paper game, etc. which you just \'play\' without thinking of anything ooc counts as roleplaying.
And yes, some people in PS do have very strange notions on what roleplaying is.
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hummm.... \"roleplay is best when the person is not making any effort\".... I do not think that is roleplaying. I actually think that is the oppisite of roleplaying.
I am not sure why this thread was not pointed out in this link, but here is a link to roleplay instructions. Yes, this is the post by XpYtz that it is stuck to the top of the Plaza forum.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=10310&boardid=19&styleid=3
Too answer Zanz original question. D&D is the only true non computer RPG I have ever played. I would not count Monopoly or Risk as a RPG. In order to be a RPG game you have to have a character sheet. You then assume the life of this character just like you would if you were in an impov acting class. Monopoly and Risk do not have that, thus they are just dice roling games.
As too Zanz style of roleplay while he was an Elementalist, I would like to know why he roasted the archers. Did they shoot first? In fighting back Zanz commited murder and started a forest fire. Who ever has claim to that part of the forest will most certainly want Zanz head on pole. If Zanz character was loyal to the King, he should have surrendered to the kings archers, the King being a reasonable man would have judged wizely.
D&D\'s roleplay is very dependant on the GM at the time. If the GM of Zanz\'s game had a sole objective to kill off 75 to 95% of the players characters, then Zanz reaction would make sense. In such a case I would accuse the GM of making a death dungeon, ignoring the role play part of RPG, wrecking the fun of the Game just to boost he own ego, giving his friends an unfair advantage, and stomp off in a huff. Ahhh... just disreguard that last part. That never happened, and it was not me who had his warrior killed by common mold. !O
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Originally posted by derwoodly
As too Zanz style of roleplay while he was an Elementalist, I would like to know why he roasted the archers. Did they shoot first? In fighting back Zanz commited murder and started a forest fire. Who ever has claim to that part of the forest will most certainly want Zanz head on pole. If Zanz character was loyal to the King, he should have surrendered to the kings archers, the King being a reasonable man would have judged wizely.
Even if it was an evil act, it would have still been role-playing.
Also, they ambushed us, and I didn\'t ~mean~ to start that forest fire. I wasn\'t thinking. I like trees! :(
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Originally posted by zanzibar
Even if it was an evil act, it would have still been role-playing.
Also, they ambushed us, and I didn\'t ~mean~ to start that forest fire. I wasn\'t thinking. I like trees! :(
From your words I get the idea that you consider anything your character does roleplaying because in real life you can not cast fireballs. Unless of cource you really can conjure flaming orbs of plasma out of thin air. I don\'t happen to agree with you if that is the case. Commiting an evil act reqiures your character to actually be evil. If the players that are playing with you are roleplaying good characters they should stop you.
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Originally posted by derwoodly
Originally posted by zanzibar
Even if it was an evil act, it would have still been role-playing.
Also, they ambushed us, and I didn\'t ~mean~ to start that forest fire. I wasn\'t thinking. I like trees! :(
From your words I get the idea that you consider anything your character does roleplaying because in real life you can not cast fireballs. Unless of cource you really can conjure flaming orbs of plasma out of thin air. I don\'t happen to agree with you if that is the case. Commiting an evil act reqiures your character to actually be evil. If the players that are playing with you are roleplaying good characters they should stop you.
And from your words, I\'m becoming very dismissive of your ideas.
\"Commiting an evil act reqiures your character to actually be evil.\"
Wrong.
\"If the players that are playing with you are roleplaying good characters they should stop you.\"
Who said they didn\'t try?
Thankyou, come again!
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Zanzibar:
Your initial post was very confusing, and I know you know this. I have noticed that once this discussion began your use of the English language suddenly \"blossomed\". So my interesting observation is on your intial post: Was it intentional? It is obvious you understand the English language better than that!
My observation is based on this one thread you have started. My suspicion is that this trend will be spied in other threads. After I post this, I will check my theory for actual fact or fiction. Even if it isn\'t correct, the observation of this one thread begs the question: Why the poor grammar in the initial post?
Kythag
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Originally posted by Kythag
Zanzibar:
Your initial post was very confusing, and I know you know this.
Wrong. I don\'t know of any such thing.
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You are right! I\'ve been reading your posts, then I reread your initial post here. The confusion comes from a difference in style. Now I\'m wondering what was so confusing?
Kythag
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Originally posted by Kythag
You are right! I\'ve been reading your posts, then I reread your initial post here. The confusion comes from a difference in style. Now I\'m wondering what was so confusing?
Kythag
???? You mean you read my post, and now you realize it wasn\'t confusing, despite what\'s being said about it? Did you read it in the first place?
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I didn\'t bother to read one post, but Enkidukai ARE NOT cats. They are cat-like creatures, but not cats. Call them Enkidukai, not kittens. ;P
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I getting very tired of your selective reading habits! I misread(note I said I reread your initial post) your initial post as many did. I confessed to misreading it, and you decided (once again) to be confrontational instead of accepting my admission that I was wrong. I am beginning to see why you got banned from the game once before.
I said, just like I said in my original post, that I went through reading your posts to determine if I was right or wrong about your original post. I determined I was wrong, came here, and admitted it. You then (as you did in another thread) decide to be confrontational again by selective reading what you wanted so that you could twist it to suit your purposes.
You need not worry about me anymore. I want nothing more to do with you or any post you make!
Kythag
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Originally posted by Kythag
I am beginning to see why you got banned from the game once before.
Dead Horse <--- beat it.
Originally posted by Kythag
You need not worry about me anymore. I want nothing more to do with you or any post you make!
How will I go on?
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*waves a padlock at Zanzibar* Please don\'t.
*edit* In that case, I hope no one minds if I draw this to a close.
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Originally posted by Karyuu
*waves a padlock at Zanzibar* Please don\'t.
I really don\'t care. Anyone that had something to say, and who wasn\'t scared off by this immature-as-heck flame war, has already said it.