PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pestilence on December 09, 2005, 02:12:32 pm
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Not to criticize but I was wondering how GMs are chosen as I heard the advisory points aren\'t a good reason anymore.
I do agree that advisory points shouldn\'t be the only reason, but I do think something like a minimum requirement would be a good idea for two reasons.
1. To become a GM I think one should show dedication.
2. This way you look at other people when they reach that requirement.
Reason 1 is obvious. I think someone shouldn\'t become a GM just becuase he has good contacts. I think it should be someone who likes helping people and although advisory isn\'t the best way it is an easy way to check someone has the minimum requirements to do this.
Reason 2 is also important I think becuase you should never just look at people you like. As PS is a community and the GMs should represent the community. Ofcourse a more active part of the community but still with different views that work together for the greater good (being PS and the fun playing it ofcourse ;) ) and somehwat a middleground between the devs and the players.
As I said I don\'t want to use this to bash the ?stablishment\" or anything, but I do hope the devs and GMs will concider these points for their GM selection process as I think just following these points would greatly help get a good GM team.
I look forward to your replies :)
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advisor points are still considered, though just not as a primary reason for someone to become a GM.
we also look at other things, such as past behaviour how they are in general. willingness to help.. also a few other standards need to be met.
i think the selection system works quite well in most cases, other times have been discussed. currently we are working on bringing some structure back to the team.
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Quick response :)
Well I think those are good criteria, but I think it might be good to have something like the points so you look to people you might not think of in other cases.
Afraid it might otherwise become a group of friends and although that is fun the question then does arise how good they represent the commmunity.
Again in deepest respect for a GMs job (and no I don\'t have 500 advisory points LOL)
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The idea behind advisor points is definitely admirable but I think the points themselves aren\'t a very good criteria for several reasons.
Advice and helpfulness is often given outside of the Help channel and the measurement of advisor points. I\'ve holpen way more people in plain chat than I have with advising.
The advisor points don\'t represent the quality of advice given, just that something is said. Advisors don\'t need to answer right or be friendly per se to get an advisor point.
Giving advice to people isn\'t a very important requirement of want-to-be GM\'s. I know it is used to determine the helpfulness and knowledge of a person but it is, in my eyes, a flawed measurement for those.
A better way would be questioning someone who desires to be a GM to determine their game knowledge and observing their interaction with others.
Advisor points aren\'t constant either ... for example my character Zan has been recreated recently thereby losing all of his previously acquired points. Now he only has 7 of them left. It would seem that he isn\'t very helpful or knowledgeable by that. I never turn down a question and regularly try to help new people find their way around and I\'ve been playing for over a year now I believe. So you see advisor points are misrepresentation in this case and most likely in several cases.
Generally I am for them not being an important requirement.
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Pestilence, we arent all friends :|
Zan, we can request advisor logs and get some idea of how they help from there.
more to add no time :P
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Well I agree Zan it should not be used as a requirement in the way that someone who doesn\'t have that he is automaticly not available as GM, but how do you check someone does help ingame?
I mean I myself have since the wipe only collected 2 advisory points I believe. Ofcourse I do help people a lot in the game itself but I can\'t proof that ofcourse. The advisory points are a small example of that atleast you have the intention to help people
As for quality I have discussed that before and also agree this is questionable with looking just at the points, but before atleast responses were saved by the system and if this is still the case it would be easy to look it over and see with a few questions how they are handled. Without a GM watching over their shoulder ofcourse ;)
Becuase if you don\'t use advisory points what way do you have? The feeling the GMs have and we al know that if you want to be a GM and know a GM is watching you you will behave differently.
**edit**
ahh Drey beat me to it. Fast reply alright ;)
To Drey: didn\'t say that was the case. Know very well thats not the case but just pointed out the risk of even if it is subconciously to only look at people you know yourself.
**edit**
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Well checking logs does give a better idea but since it looks like they do that I guess I have nothing more to say :D
Advisor points in combination with checking logs, not just the ones on the help channel, would work fine.
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zan: well... we cant see convo logs.. unless someone has reported them, but by the time someone has beeen around long enough to actually have the request to become a GM considered we like to think we have a pretty good idea of what they are about. also with the GM guild being invite only its not as if we are going to ask people who are not suitible.
also my 300 or so points pwns both of you :P
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LOL suprise suprise ;)
Not much happening in the helpchannel of late. Not sure if that has something to do with the message of the points no longer counting but .........
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the actual player sitting behind the keyboard is the one who\'s considered for GM opting, right? let\'s just say i was up for consideration to be a GM, hypothetically. i mean, i\'d love to be a GM and help out whenever possible, but I wouldn\'t want to force Sekhemet to leave the Explorers. i\'d be able to create a new character to be the Game Master, right?
forgive me, i\'m currently in a \"crash\" right now after having a vanilla caffe latte and an espresso brownie... brain my right work now.
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Many make a new character for being GM and believe it\'s even recommended so yes it\'s the player being concidered not the character your playing most ;)
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Yeah it does really matter what character you use but I believe everyone has two accounts... One GMed Account and teh other their basic account. So yes, you can make a new char for GMing which is likely better so you can work without as many interuptions :P.
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The more and more I think about it, the less and less I like advisor points. It\'s getting to the point where I\'d advocate just getting rid of them altogether. How the player acts is far more important than the help channel.
It seems like it\'d be favoring friends, but nominations from existing GMs is the best way to do things. One would hope that the GMs that do the nominations are mildly decent, and they would only nominate someone who they know has proven themself to be as well. The AP really doesn\'t tell anyone anything. Being nominated doesn\'t guarantee GM-ship, though. You still have to survive the review process.
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I was not going to post in this thread but feel i must comment on the following.
By DaveG
The more and more I think about it, the less and less I like advisor points. It\'s getting to the point where I\'d advocate just getting rid of them altogether. How the player acts is far more important than the help channel.
If that is the case then all existing older GM should not be there as it has already been stated that before all you had to do was get 500 and you are in basically.
By a GM
Advisor points used to be the way to become a GM, get 500 and your in basically, but that idea was thrown out the window because it was too soft of a screening process.
To the player that asks for help and gets help, that does help them, is all that matters.
Why not.
1. have GMs on line monitor and inform advisers if there help is bad.
2. do away with clamming, forcing them to type answers, if only in it to get A.P. they will soon get bored and give up.
Back to Becoming a GM.
My thoughts are keep it quit how to become one. :))
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Advisor points were never the only consideration. They were one of many requirements, like an age of over 16, or no previous bad behavior. Now they are considered, but not as important.
GMs are supposed to monitor the help channel when they are online. They might not answer a question just to see how others respond to it :)
Persoanlly, I prefer claiming, not so I can take a claim from others, but so I know when somone is helping right away. Not only would it be frustrating to type out a long response, only to be locked out just before i finish, but there is no reason for two advisors to be helping, if just a single answer will do. More then that would most likely be confusing :)
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Originally posted by TheMinority
i\'d be able to create a new character to be the Game Master, right?
not sure if anyone answered this yet, just skimmed the other posts (is that the work? you could have skam but that silly, anyways) you have to make a new account... the ony exception to that was platyna, but then she was never really a GM.
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Originally posted by DaveG
It seems like it\'d be favoring friends, but nominations from existing GMs is the best way to do things. One would hope that the GMs that do the nominations are mildly decent, and they would only nominate someone who they know has proven themself to be as well. The AP really doesn\'t tell anyone anything. Being nominated doesn\'t guarantee GM-ship, though. You still have to survive the review process.
wonder where Airbornex went ...
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Originally posted by Zan
wonder where Airbornex went ...
hes around....
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the way i see advising now is that the \'points\' a player/advisor gets for each question is more of a sentiment to what they\'re doing.
\"if you type \'/advisormode on\' you can become an advisor and help people by answering questions in the help channel!\"
\"why would I want to do that?\"
\"you can gain advisor points from answered questions, and this may lead to you being elected and eligible to become a GM\"
they also see it as a game, who getst he most wins, which brings sillyness, claiming multiple questions, not answering correctly and etcetera.
I haven\'t advised for a long long time, but I often just monitor the channel
having 200 or 1500 advisor points doesnt make you eligible for GMship, its the effort you put into each sentence that gave you the point.
hence one word answers dont give you points anymore, we scour the person under monitoring reading the majority of their advising sessions, how they reply to questions, general attitude and knowledge of the game given correctly, these are the main factors.
it was made a requirement that a person becoming a GM make a new account for their GM character, or use their existing one and make a new one for their player character.
this is to keep any chance of unfair advantage to a minimum on the player character.
there is also the option of giving up \'playing\' and just GMing with a ready made character, though, if the person decides they want to play again, they must make a new account and use that or have the GM access switched to the new account.
*eyes thread* think thats about it covered...
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Well I am not convinced yet using the advisor points is a bad idea although I do see they can never be the only requirements.
The problem with other requirements I think is that it\'s very subjective to what the GMs see and what is reported to GMs.
Advisor points ofcourse aren\'t perfect but how can you make sure a persons reputation is really deserved and not just a recording of a moment.
Now if you log advisory per advisor it would be much easier to atleast have an objective base to evaluate someone on. As these answers will represent how he acts over an extended period of time.
Ofcourse thats not perfect but think people will find it harder that way to disguise faults and although I have heard many mention it\'s faults I haven\'t heard a real alternative being mentioned for an asured objective part in the concideration.
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My opinion is that advisor points are actualy damaging advising. It was not rarely that i\'ve seen replyes like \"you should ask a GM about that\" (and i mean a reply like that for a question like \"i\'m stuck, how do i get free?\") and i noticed many advices to be inconsistent. Why? Becoming GM might be a reason... Getting on the top 5 advisors might be the other one. A review of the logs might be indeed a way to determine if one is fit to be a GM and also i think a future GM should somehou proove his/hers extensive knoledge of the world.
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Do away with points yes all for it. Do away with help channel, you are joking right, it bad enough now trying to RP, you are just getting into it \" Im new what do i do\" \"were are the sewers\" etc.
Now add to that all the requests for help. Run for the hills. RP in secret places away from everyone, thats what you will have to do. Yes PlaneShift is big but not that big, all who wont to RP will find out the way places just to get a sentence out before the interruptions start. The Worst advice i herd was:
Q. Where do I train Strength.
A. If you can\'t be bothered to explore how do you expect to find it.
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I personally wouldn\'t answer that directly. But I\'d be nicer... i.e. \"Explore Hydlaa and ask players in-character, in-game. If you\'re nice and courteous, they\'ll help you. Don\'t shout your question, it will only annoy people. Roleplay, and you\'ll find it and have fun at the same time. That\'s what the game is for.\" Basically, a general tutorial on asking in-game questions. :)
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Originally posted by r.guppy
Q. Where do I train Strength.
A. If you can\'t be bothered to explore how do you expect to find it.
this is a tricky one to answer with out going into some of the details, due to there being several different trainers.
my first response to that would likley be to ask their current level, after that you can give them a name to look out for or maybe an area to check out.
if this was a question on level sword training for some of the higher levels you could reply with \"Some of the most skilled swordsmen can be found in the arena.\"
they get their answer, but still have some searching to do.
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hmm don\'t think the people who train higher levels should need help from the help channel that way ;) but get the drift ;)
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How about players get to nominate people for GM position?
/nominate player
Then, after you\'ve gotten enough people to nominate you, you are considered for GM.
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Originally posted by ylikone
How about players get to nominate people for GM position?
/nominate player
Then, after you\'ve gotten enough people to nominate you, you are considered for GM.
Developers made the game and rules for us and nominated GMs to make sure that we follow the rules and the game is played in the way that they wanted it. Many of us may have different opinions about the game and rules, but this is their game and not ours. If we start nominating GMs then whose rules they will enforce, developers\' or ours?
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Think thats to harsh Bereror.
First of at the moment I believe the GMs are doing most of finding and selecting new GMs themselves already so the devs have more time developing instead of policing ;)
Secondly nominating like that wouldn\'t mean they would become GMs or that only those nominated would be considered by the GMs.
I\'m just wondering who people would recommend and if that would really end up with better GMs then we are getting right now :)