PlaneShift
Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Lanstri on December 12, 2005, 09:14:23 pm
-
I like this idea of having an area where people can post their RP and that it is monitored to a degree. OOC kept to a minimum is a biggie.
However, I am very wary of having individuals \"preside\" over others RP. The feeling I\'m getting from all this is that, if your RP is unacceptable.. there will be consequences. No arguing RP? What a load of bull that is. Who died and made this guy Lord and Dictator of RP? Who is an outsider to someone\'s RP going to settle an argument he knows nothing about? :P
What are we supposed to post everything related to our RP here for someone\'s approval? Why would I want to spend days typing 8 pages of history, spend only 1 day RPing it, and turn around and post the RP on a forum?
I feel that having people who encourage Roleplaying is a novel idea, but to have them take control of it is a far stone\'s throw from encouraging.
With that said, I can see the good to come of having these positions. Petty arguments might be avoided, and people will have someone to go to with questions.
I suppose only time will tell whether this is the greatest blunder in PS history or a marvelous achievement.
-
No, I think you got it wrong. This forum is for review and suggestions for people who have been granted GM powers for the purpose of creating dynamic quests and such. This is not an RP forum, and they are not the high lord of RP, just facilitators.
edit: \\o/ 50 posts! 3 stars!
-
I may very well be absolutely wrong in my assumptions, but it is within the realm of possibility. I agree with you to a point, and I\'m not trying to bash or argue. I\'m just trying to highlight the good and the bad in the situation. As I said, I think this could be a wonderful idea and I am enthusiastic about the new features. The dynamic quests are an awesome idea. I just have some concerns.
-
Let me set your mind at ease. I am also very expectant of abuse from other games I have played. However, everytime I have had issue with someone in game, it has turned out to be a misunderstanding. This means players and GMs or RMs.
One incident involved roleplay that got chaotic(therefore, very realistic) and poor dumb Kythag found himself fighting Rogues with one hand tied behind his back(a mine pick in shield hand and barefisted). It turned out that I missed some dialogue directed at me(in the confusion).
This will become a blessing instead of the curse you are expecting. I rush to participate in these events because they are incredinly fun. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the quests to come.
Kythag
-
OOC arguing over RMs, quests, or completely unrelated things won\'t be taken lightly here. But that\'s it :) Roleplay conflicts, if not encouraged all the time with glee, aren\'t frowned upon - for indeed there is no story without a conflict. But this isn\'t the forum section to post your random stories in - that\'s for the Roleplay Forum. This place exists for the reasons Rerogo mentioned, right now being mainly to discuss past and future roleplay events run by the RM team. No one is going to preside over any roleplay and judge if it is appropriate - unless of course it clearly isn\'t. Your style of roleplay, in anything, isn\'t going to be judged either - unless again it is offensive, not roleplay at all but OOC, etc. But such things don\'t need to be mentioned ;) RMs don\'t stand around in invisible mode, listening to people\'s conversations and deciding whether they are roleplaying \"correctly,\" whatever the heck that means :) During events, they may nudge players in one direction or another to help them, and they may \"possess\" NPCs every now and then, and they could generally make the environment a lot more responsive to players, but they\'re not judges - they do not deal out punishments, discuss consequences, etc. I think there was just a misunderstanding.
-
Let me clarify a few things:
1. There is no such thing as unacceptable role-play. The only exceptions would be if you go out-of-character, change the Planeshift setting, or do things that might be in-character personality-wise, but would be impossible for your character to do (this is just an extension of out-of-character, really).
2. Roleplay here will not be judged in any way shape or form. Roleplay in this forum is required to relate to an event that occurred in-game (not necessarily a RM event... it could be anything that happened in-game, really). In most cases, role-play here should take the form of some sort of reflection on a past event. In-character notices and brief in-character responses to those notices may also be posted here. However, this is not the place to role-play out a fight or argument that hasn\'t happened yet.
3. Roleplay in-game is judged to the extent that if you roleplay extraordinarily well, you may be rewarded (this applies whether you are in an event or not). You will never be penalized for \"bad\" roleplay, though; there is no such thing (see #1 ;) ).
4. The \"do not argue\" issue refers to players differing opinions on events. One player may say, \"That event was terrible.\" Another may say, \"That was the best event ever!\" They can both post these opinions, but they can not argue over them. We will take what they have said into account and do the arguing for them. We just want opinions and facts. :)
-
Cha0s and Karyuu, et al:
I do not consider anyone who loves PS and wants it to be successful, to be an enemy, no matter how we might have disagreed. And what I post is genuinely intended to be helpful.
I have not posted until now, because I have been watching, and evaluating what you have been doing here...
Before the praise, the problems:
1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.
I have deconstructed that page, and defined what has caused such a reaction. I invite Cha0s to allow me to assist him with an editing that includes his clarifications here, and will deal with other things that might still be misunderstood.
2. For you to proclaim yourselves Role-play Masters, was taken as incredible hubris.
The responses were not kind, or respectful.
In an effort to help you compensate for this, I will attempt here to change player perception of the name, to something more friendly and positive.
I propose that from this day forward, you be known as RPMs, or \"Spinners\" (of tales and quests...)
Praises:
Why am I giving you my endorsement?
1. I have been preaching this, almost from my first post: that players take the resources they have been given, and make the best fun that they can think of.
You Spinners are doing the same thing, and are trying to make more fun out of what you have, regardless of what it was intended for.
2. I have also been saying, that there is no way a canned NPC quest can compete with actually interacting with a human.
You are attempting to use your resources to replace asking for a quest, with unplanned human interactions, and you are exploring how to deal with the unforeseen and unplanned events that follow.
3. Those GMs who become Spinners will get to play, and have fun in their role as GMs, a lot more of the time.
God knows, you guys certainly need and deserve to have fun.
And if the person you are interacting with, is having fun, chances are, that you will too... :)
Conclusion:
I have spent hours at a time with Noobs, giving advice, training, and entertaining, but I have never gone to the advice channel, to play the role of user\'s guide.
And I have never wanted to be a GM.
I have always believed it would make me cranky to miss out on so much of the fun with other players, cease to live the story of Verrliit, and become one who has responsibilities, duties, and is expected either be dealing with the ignorant, disruptive and ill-behaved, or waiting alertly until the next one shows up..
But...
I will be delighted to participate in the next event I can reach, and will give what aid I can during the event, and it\'s analysis.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
-
They are Roleplay Masters hereafter known as RM\'s. like it or not.
the GM team work on the technical side of in-game, the RM team work on the fun and community side (excluding misbehaviour, naming etc.)
they are two seperate groups, work together under the Developers, like a double helix for instance, they inter twine.
the RM etam is only just being established, and if we can get a hold of the right people soon enough, will be completely official, commands and abilities will be set, people recruited, and thats when the fun really begins.
what cha0s has done is create an idea and work towards obtaining it, well, simply put, it\'s worked, putting much effort into the RM team, as with everyone involved in the work.
to set something straight.
GM\'s can be RM\'s if they so wish to be, fulltime, part time or one time only, they already have the access and abilities to do so, as long as the RM team is happy with their assistance.
an RM however, cannot be a GM in the same means, as its the more serious side (serious as in technical, not as in we work harder :P) if an RM decides they want to be a GM they would go about applying the same way everyone does, and will be pout into consideration equally.
to become an RM is yet to be established, of which, I\'ve yet to hunt down and discuss with cha0s about.
as assurance to the safety.... and sanity of roleplayers, I personally will have very little to do with RM activities, unless somethign catches my eye, this is because I can safely say I suck at roleplay :]
*glances over the monologue more*
thats abotu it methinks
-
I\'m not certain where the whole misunderstanding is coming from. It seems that RM\'s are/were being considered as GM\'s but then for roleplaying instead of the technical ooc part.
The job that Roleplay Masters have is completely different from the one currently filled by Game Masters, however.
GM\'s are a sort of police force. They will watch over the people and make sure that everyone can play and live together decently. They are there to solve disputes and if needed intervene by taking measures against those that chose to disrespect the other players out of character. They also have to make sure the roleplay environment is maintained but this isn\'t always easy to do as an ooc policeforce.
This is where RM\'s come in. Roleplay Masters don\'t police like GM\'s, they don\'t use their time solving disputes, checking the names of players for anything offensive or negative, ... RM\'s simply try to create a better roleplay environment by making the world of Planeshift more interactive and dynamic. They host events or help players who want to host certain events with their abilities. RM\'s are the people that reward good roleplaying but they definitely won\'t punish those that choose not to roleplay or not to join their events. Everyone is free to do as they like as long as it doesn\'t harm others.
Players that purposefully disturb any ongoing events are another matter though but I am guessing those will still be dealt with by GM\'s.
-
Thanks Zan. Just one small thing that I want clarify: speaking out of character in public chat is not acceptable. If I see you while I\'m running an event nearby, or even just doing some NPC impersonating, you will be warned, and if you continue after repeated warnings, you will be muted. Things like \"progression points,\" \"47 slash weapons,\" and \"spawn-points\" do not exist in Planeshift from a character\'s perspective. If you use these terms in public chat after having been warned, you will get a mute. Stay in-character and all will be well. :)
-
Originally posted by Verrliit
1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.
Very strong emotions. If this is true and has affected more than just a few other players, perhaps we need to \"redecorate\" the sticky.
I have deconstructed that page, and defined what has caused such a reaction. I invite Cha0s to allow me to assist him with an editing that includes his clarifications here, and will deal with other things that might still be misunderstood.
You are free to post and discuss your deconstructions here, since I and no doubt many others would too like to understand what went wrong. This is what the forum is for - suggestions, constructive criticism. However, I myself have yet to come across someone beside you that has taken offence with the \"Roleplay Master\" title. If such others exist, then I welcome them to post here and make their presence known, as well as explain their feelings.
I propose that from this day forward, you be known as RPMs, or \"Spinners\" (of tales and quests...)
I do like the \"Spinner\" bit :) Perhaps it\'ll work as a nickname. But the \"RM\" stays, much like the \"GM.\"
I have always believed it would make me cranky to miss out on so much of the fun with other players, cease to live the story of Verrliit, and become one who has responsibilities, duties, and is expected either be dealing with the ignorant, disruptive and ill-behaved, or waiting alertly until the next one shows up..
Good that there is someone else to do that, then ;) Though many of us, me in particular, haven\'t given up our regular characters. I\'m very much attached to Karyuu, and besides - she has a responsibility to the Explorers Guild. We still have fun.
But thank you for your comments! :)
-
Guess I didn\'t have to wait long. -.-
::QUOTE::
Chaos - Talking OOC in general chat is an offense punishable by muting.
I\'ve never noticed a problem or anyone complaining about speaking OOCly in the general chat, so long as it was distinguished by () or []. Sometimes it is much simpler to say things oocly in chat. Especially when helping a new player.
Ah well.. why do I even bother.
-
No no, OOC chat by itself isn\'t enough to warrant a mute! :) It just has to be designated as OOC, through parentheses or brackets. Explanations to new players would be quite hard otherwise. Cha0s, if you\'re muting players who specifically designate OOC chat as such, that\'s overstepping - and I hope that this is just another misunderstanding... This is not something I\'m bound to agree with.
-
Originally posted by Karyuu
Originally posted by Verrliit
1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.
Very strong emotions. If this is true and has affected more than just a few other players, perhaps we need to \"redecorate\" the sticky.
Many approached me, to ask if your Improv Theater events meant the ending to players doing any RP at all. What is needed is vastly more serious than simply redecorating.
Originally posted by Karyuu
You are free to post and discuss your deconstructions here, since I and no doubt many others would too like to understand what went wrong. This is what the forum is for - suggestions, constructive criticism.
I will take you at your word. I will tell you what is wrong, in public, as you asked. Just remember, I offered to do this in private, where it would not be embarrassing to you.
Originally posted by Karyuu
However, I myself have yet to come across someone beside you that has taken offence with the \"Roleplay Master\" title. If such others exist, then I welcome them to post here and make their presence known, as well as explain their feelings.
That will not happen. Beyond Lanstri and I, no one who is not in your circle of friends has posted in this thread at all. You have proclaimed yourselves to be Role-Play Masters. Those tiny few who still bother to read the forums, and found this to be pretentious and offensive, or took the rule page as insulting micro-management, as well as those who no longer read the forums, gave up on talking to any of you, long ago.
And this is the big problem:
Originally posted by Cha0s
speaking out of character in public chat is not acceptable. If I see you while I\'m running an event nearby, or even just doing some NPC impersonating, you will be warned, and if you continue after repeated warnings, you will be muted. Things like \"progression points,\" \"47 slash weapons,\" and \"spawn-points\" do not exist in Planeshift from a character\'s perspective. If you use these terms in public chat after having been warned, you will get a mute.
None of you see anything wrong with this. [Edit- Spoke too soon. Sorry, Karyuu. :) ]
Let me try to rub your nose in it.
There is no conflict, no one is misbehaving, nobody asked Cha0s for help with a disruptive player, and yet here he is threatening people with muting, for something so trivial and common as OOC chat.
This is unacceptable behavior for a Moderator, for a GM or for anyone else for that matter.
\"But this is his job\", you say?
It is the furthest thing from it.
The primary purpose of all of you, who serve the players as GM and Moderator, is to help if we say we need you, and stay the heck out of our way, unless we ask.
If you do not do that, you are an enemy of play, and of the player.
\"But the rules are sacred, and all must obey. And we serve the Devs, and not the players...\", you say?
Why do you think that so few players talk to you?
Why do you think that those in your circle of Moderators and their friends, are responsible for almost all of the posts?
Why do you think that not even a tiny fraction of the owners, of the 48,000 characters that were created since the wipe, have posted, and swamped the forums so badly that you need twenty more moderators just to read them all?
The players are the whole point, and the only point.
Everything that is built by the Devs, and everything you do in PS and in this forum is done to serve them.
And you are very badly missing that point.
You serve the players.
Say otherwise, behave otherwise, even while giving it lip service, and you will lose what little authority and respect you have left, in the community.
Again, I volunteer to help. PM me.
Verrliit
-
*shrugs* I\'m done trying. I\'ll leave it to you three. Least I\'m not the only one Verrliit, glad to see you agree with that at least Kayruu (it gives me hope), and shame on you Chaos.
-
First, Karyuu was correct, mostly. I don\'t care about correctly marked OOC chat in braces [] or parentheses (). My issue is with chat that is not so-marked OR with lengthy OOC conversations (these should be in tells, or, if involving multiple players, in group chat), even those in braces and parentheses. Planeshift is a roleplay game. Blatant out-of-character statements and lengthy discussions about, for example, music (which I have heard), do not belong. You can not have an environment that is even the least bit immersive while people are discussing their favorite bands. This brings up another thing I will warn and eventually mute for: off-topic out-of-character chat, marked or not. Planeshift is not for discussing your favorite TV show. The braces [] and () should relate to in-game issues and should be used only for short conversations. If possible, use a tell!
Verrliit: You are clearly burning to correct my terrible sticky. Please, go ahead... in public. The purpose of this forum is to make sure we do our job better, and your criticisms should be helpful to that end.
I have a few comments, though, before you go at it.
Why do you think that so few players talk to you?
Where exactly do you get your information? Posting on the forums isn\'t the only form of communication around here. I talk to dozens of players in-game and on IRC, not all of whom are devs, GMs, or mods. Do not make assumptions like this and call them fact.
But the rules are sacred, and all must obey...
Yup. That\'s true.
And we serve the Devs, and not the players...
No. The devs created the rules. The rules serve the players. Without rules, there is chaos. There is no game. Imagine if there was no gravity. Or no rules for combat, crafting, talking to NPCs. The code is just rules that are enforced by the game engine. Without these rules, there would be no game. When the devs make rules, we follow them and ensure that the players follow them to benefit the players. Maybe the devs made a bad rule; fine, take that up with them. Do not complain to me for enforcing those rules.
...stay the heck out of our way, unless we ask.
Ah, but you do. Not the people speaking out-of-character of course. But I can recall numerous times where players have sent me a tell saying, \"Player X is spamming OOC chat in the plaza. Do something!\" So don\'t tell me I\'m just enforcing these rules for the sake of the rules. As I said above, the rules benefit the players. If you don\'t like them, talk to the devs.
As for people taking offense to \"Roleplay Masters,\" I ask why they do not take offense to \"Game Masters,\" as the word was picked so as to create a link between the two.
Lanstri: shame on me for what? Being misunderstood? My intent is to make the game more fun for the players, not be a brutal dictator. If you have any specific suggestions for clarifications in the sticky topic, please tell me.
-
Originally posted by Cha0s
Without rules, there is chaos. There is no game. Imagine if there was no gravity. Or no rules for combat, crafting, talking to NPCs
If all those thiings were gone, I could still RP my little furry tail off, Cha0s. Perhaps even do more of it than I do now, because I would not have those activities to distract me from conversation.
The Devs only build a place to play.
The Players make the RP, and invent the games they can, using the things they have been given.
This is what RP is, Cha0s.
The Players are the game. Not the code.
Verrliit.
-
*sighs* I\'m hoping people do swing by to check out this thread. It has only gone to prove my point.
Chaos,
I\'m sorry, but that was the most hypocritical thing I\'ve seen posted in awhile. I can\'t tell you how many times I\'ve heard.. \"RP is encouraged, not enforced.\" However, by reading your post.. anyone not RPing will be muted(or worse)! That is blatant enforcement.
If people want to talk about music, tv, women, men, love, or a poptart.. it is not your duty nor your right to tell them they cannot. There are more than a few people on PlaneShift who do not RolePlay and have no desire to. Why should they be limited to group and tell chats only? Is that not discrimination?
-
Originally posted by Verrliit
Many approached me, to ask if your Improv Theater events meant the ending to players doing any RP at all. What is needed is vastly more serious than simply redecorating.
I have never heard of any scenario where the introduction of team-lead events in a game have meant that the players cannot continue running their own events or playing privately. This is so foreign that I\'m honestly lacking any response.
I will take you at your word. I will tell you what is wrong, in public, as you asked. Just remember, I offered to do this in private, where it would not be embarrassing to you.
Excuse me? :) We have stated many times that we are always ready to listen to suggestions, tips, constructive criticism, and any and all comments that players would like to make. And have we not done that? Have you found us wishing to hide things in private corners, for fear of our mistakes \"embarassing\" us? Please, give the RM team a bit more credit, Verrliit.
Beyond Lanstri and I, no one who is not in your circle of friends has posted in this thread at all.
I must say that your continuous use of \"circle of friends\" is rather irritating - and insinuous of something conspiratory. I believe you know exactly the effect you are having with that phrasing.
You have proclaimed yourselves to be Role-Play Masters. Those tiny few who still bother to read the forums, and found this to be pretentious and offensive, or took the rule page as insulting micro-management, as well as those who no longer read the forums, gave up on talking to any of you, long ago.
I do not remember anyone who once ever talked to me, giving up to hold further conversation. Certainly not over something as silly as this. I believe you are making assumptions...
The primary purpose of all of you, who serve the players as GM and Moderator, is to help if we say we need you, and stay the heck out of our way, unless we ask.
This attitude is vastly different from the kind image you portray in your signature, Verrliit, and it is a shock. As a moderator, I do get asked a lot to help forum posters - but even if no one asks and I manage something in the forums, I get thanked. Should I hang back until someone waves a hand and says \"Moderator, moderator! I need you now!\"? The same goes for GMs and RMs. I just cannot agree to this... almost vehemence I feel from that sentence.
If you do not do that, you are an enemy of play, and of the player.
I do not consider anyone who loves PS and wants it to be successful, to be an enemy, no matter how we might have disagreed.
I think I need clarification which Verrliit I am addressing.
Why do you think that so few players talk to you?
Verrliit, why do you claim to know how many players talk to us?
Why do you think that those in your circle of Moderators and their friends, are responsible for almost all of the posts?
Why do you insist on making such claims, when they are so hurtful and false?
Why do you think that not even a tiny fraction of the owners, of the 48,000 characters that were created since the wipe, have posted, and swamped the forums so badly that you need twenty more moderators just to read them all?
Are you blaming us?
This is honestly unbelievable. I don\'t think we have done anything to deserve such - the only thing you mentioned to cause this was the title of \"Roleplay Master,\" which is such a small thing that to cause something like this is just... well, unbelievable. I hope this gets sorted...
Maybe someone who is not in my personal little \"circle of friends\" would like to pick up from here? Or is it my fault that I consider the great majority of PlaneShift players to be in such?
-
Lanstri: No. Those are the rules of the game, not discrimination. If you want to talk about music, TV, etc, use IRC. When you\'re playing Planeshift, you roleplay. That\'s the purpose of the game. If you don\'t feel like roleplaying, do something else for a while. But when you\'re in Planeshift you have to roleplay.
Imagine if a bunch of people are roleplaying, having fun, developing their characters. Then you walk up and say, \"Hey, what\'s your favorite TV show? I like Friends, myself. Great show.\" Any mood that might have existed is gone. You ruined their fun. Players need to follow rules so that they don\'t disrupt each other\'s enjoyment of the game. Talking out-of-character is disrespecting those players that are here to play the game. OOC chat is not part of the game.
Verrliit: Of course you could roleplay. You could also fly around the world OOC and make a mess of everyone else\'s roleplay.
Without rules, anyone can go and ruin the game for the players that you value so highly. This game has a specific purpose: to provide a place for roleplayers to roleplay. Therefore, from the perspective of the RMs (and I\'d say the devs, though I won\'t speak for them), roleplayers are more important than those who refuse to roleplay. If you don\'t how, but are willing to learn, that\'s perfectly alright. But those that refuse to roleplay have no right to demand anything from Planeshift, the devs, or the RMs. The rules of Planeshift are made to make it easier for the roleplayers to immerse themselves in the world and have fun roleplaying. As I always say, if you don\'t want to roleplay, go somewhere else.
In summary, the purpose of Planeshift is to support roleplay; all things that work against this purpose (off-topic OOC, etc) are not permitted (OOC is permitted if it aids this purpose). Those that do not want to roleplay do not belong.
I don\'t care if you call me harsh or hypocritical. This is the truth. I am being direct in the hope that you\'ll understand.
-
Karyuu, and Cha0s:
I think I was clear enough to make sense.
But if you have any further questions or discussion you would like on this topic, I will be happy to oblige.
PM me.
Verrliit
-
Originally posted by Cha0s
And we serve the Devs, and not the players...
No. The devs created the rules. The rules serve the players. Without rules, there is chaos. There is no game. Imagine if there was no gravity. Or no rules for combat, crafting, talking to NPCs. The code is just rules that are enforced by the game engine. Without these rules, there would be no game. When the devs make rules, we follow them and ensure that the players follow them to benefit the players. Maybe the devs made a bad rule; fine, take that up with them. Do not complain to me for enforcing those rules.
Very true. I have done nothing over my time devloping for myself. I don\'t even have my name listed anywheres on the credits, so I cannot even claim my work as my own. I do what I do for the players.
That said, if you load up planeshift and just chat, you are wasting our work. Might as well use a chat program and save laanx\'s bandwith.
-
Verrliit, stop making up your own definitions for GMs/RMs, as they clearly don\'t make sense to anyone else.
You\'re one of those \"There\'s no game without players!\" fantatics, that much is obvious. But you -really- need to get something straight. The players don\'t run this place. We do. So you can whine and complain about things \'till the cows come home, but unless there\'s a real problem, nothing\'s going to change just because you make something up and pretend a whole bunch of people agree with you.
Players are important, sure. But we sure as heck don\'t \"serve\" you. We serve PS. Part of that just happens to be a responsibility for keeping the community happy, and we go beyond the call of duty in ensuring that need gets met. So instead of causing problems for us VOLUNTEERS -us people who are doing this for YOU, for FREE, with our own feelings getting smashed to hell in return- why don\'t you just run along and have fun like everybody else.
-
Originally posted by Verrliit
If all those thiings were gone, I could still RP my little furry tail off, Cha0s. Perhaps even do more of it than I do now, because I would not have those activities to distract me from conversation.
The Devs only build a place to play.
The Players make the RP, and invent the games they can, using the things they have been given.
This is what RP is, Cha0s.
The Players are the game. Not the code.
Verrliit.
I have serious doubts now. Verrliit, have you ever touched any pencil & paper role-playing game? Are you familiar with the Game Master function in there? Having some experience as one myself, I have to say enforcing role-play is the way to go.
Sure, I had reasonable players, who understood that I frown upon any non-rp behaviour, but was any disruptive event to appear, the consequences could be great (I had absolutely no problems with finding a way to just kill the character). And you know what? despise that most of those players were new to the whole role-playing they never whined about my Game Mastering and very often asked me to do it, because I made things interesting.
And I would laugh out any argument stating players are the game. No, players are just pawns controlled by the system. Disturbing thought? Maybe. The role-playing game is a scenery and a system. Players and people who keep order of everything simply bring the game to life. Players alone are most definitely not the game. Players alone can be a chat community at best.
And there are player guidelines that state one should listen to the Game Masters within tabletops (devs and RMs in here). Those people make an effort to create interesting scenarios and you should respect every bit of it. They have the right to enforce their rules seeing as it is them who spend their time making things more interesting for you. If you want, you may note a slight constructive criticizm to make them better at it, but when you\'re beating them with criticizm over and over, then that goes beyond a possibility of healthy environment and most likely against their will. You aren\'t supposed to argue about their decissions. If you don\'t like it and RMs don\'t want to change, by all means - do not participate.
-
Draklar always says the things I want to say but can never think of. :(
Particularly this:
\"They have the right to enforce their rules seeing as it is them who spend their time making things more interesting for you. If you want, you may note a slight constructive criticizm to make them better at it, but when you\'re beating them with criticizm over and over, then that goes beyond a possibility of healthy environment and most likely against their will. You aren\'t supposed to argue about their decissions. If you don\'t like it and RMs don\'t want to change, by all means - do not participate.\"
-
I am not in this \"circle of friends\" and these moderators, RMs, GMs, and others have been nothing but gracious and helpful to me. Verliit, you have posted that you want to address what is wrong with the rules that have been posted on this forum. PLease start doing so. All I have seen so far are personal attacks on these people. Please, post your suggestions about rules.
Another thing: Cha0s is right: Event moods will be disrupted by OOC chat. There is plenty of space with a 10 foot say range to stay out of range of these events. If I can stand in a trepor pit and not be heard asking if I may join the character in the pit, then it should not be difficult to walk ten feet to discuss the latest CD with your friends. It is not hard to use tells either. This is an RP community, the only one like it I\'ve seen that isn\'t elitist. There is more respect for other players here than any online game I have played. There is also more respect for players from this staff than any other online game staff that I have seen. If you don\'t believe me, go to the Guild Wars website, email support and watch the non-committal, side-stepping response you get(this is going to be my first deleted post isn\'t it?)
I am so tired of coming to these forums and seeing the bashing of the staff of this game that I have seen. These people are making little money(if any) working with this game. There are companies making millions that don\'t give players the level of respect we get here. Trust me when I say, the attitude you have displayed towards these people would have been squashed in any other online game, these posts would have been deleted, and you would have been banned. The very idea that your posts are still here are testament to their willingness to listen
The idea you need to grasp: This is a pure RP community. I have never seen a RP community this lenient about their rules of conduct. I make roleplayers leave the room for OOC discussions, roleplay out of earshot of others(people always act on info they\'ve heard unconsciously). I can\'t tell you the number of times in this game a quest or search that should\'ve been harder was made simple by an OOC discussion within earshot(that\'s roleplaying on my part, but not theirs).
The reason you don\'t see more people in this game is that most that come here are not aware of what an alpha version is and what to expect from it. The reason there isn\'t more people in the forums is several people do nothing more than bash this game, its officials, etc. They see what is being posted negative and leaving before they could decide for themselves. I know you are all trying to be helpful, but you are being too confrontational in your commentary. State the facts of your case. The personal commentaries are distracting from your points.
Now think about what you were thinking of me before with my comments. You were angry at me, were you not? You are coming across the same way. Tone it down, please. It is frustrating to not get your point because I am too busy being angry at things you are saying.
Sorry for long post, I seem to rarely have little to say :\\
Kythag
Edit: Moogie posted while I was writing this lengthy thing and said what I wanted to say a lot nicer and more concisely :D
Edit 2: Apparently many people posted while I was wriiting this, I am horrible typist lol
-
Usually I avoid these kind of discussions (or should I call it bashing and private attacks?), but by some reasons when you are involved I feel like I need to say something :)
You are turning everything upside down -- the game with all the settings, backgrounds and rules comes first and only then the community. It is not like a country with laws and governments, where every citizen has a voice and if we don\'t like the laws or rules or the government, we change them.
In addition, I have no clue what you are fighting for or against. I read all the posts and don\'t see the point. Is it the title Roleplay Master that you don\'t like? We know you are a master of roleplay, but it has nothing to do with the title. It is not an award, but a job they are doing and the job needs a name.
-
Originally posted by Kythag
These people are making little money(if any) working with this game.
hehe, just had to highlight that for any who missed it.
Originally posted by Draklar
They have the right to enforce their rules seeing as it is them who spend their time making things more interesting for you. If you want, you may note a slight constructive criticizm to make them better at it, but when you\'re beating them with criticizm over and over, then that goes beyond a possibility of healthy environment and most likely against their will. You aren\'t supposed to argue about their decissions. If you don\'t like it and RMs don\'t want to change, by all means - do not participate.
Like Moogie, i agree with this totaly and think it summarises this discussion.
Also, Keyaz\'s (there must be a better way to add the ownership to that) definition of RMs/GMs is all good and just.
Now, I would end discusion here, but other may want to post more.
-
Verrliit:
You have offered to share constructive criticism on what you feel is currently wrong with the RM concept or the team itself. Please share it publicly if you have it, where everyone can see and comment - for it is very much a community issue - or if you do not have it, then please do not post anything at all, for indeed you have so far made a grab for straws and personal attacks. For one, whatever you may wish to suggest in a PM, others may disagree with - and we need to know the opinions of as many people on changes as possible. I very much respect you for your roleplaying abilities, but that is where my respect has ended after this all. Please do not feel threatened by \"Roleplay Masters,\" for as Bereror said - you are one - and as you said originally, you would love to join future events. So please, again, either explain your problem or avoid posting inflammatory remarks.
-
The first day I saw the name of Roleplaying Master was choosed, I met Zan ingame, and discussed a bit with him, that I recall as the first one to propose the creation of this figure. After doing that, I PM Chaos.
Very recently, we had seen threads where misunderstandings are the common source of problems; for instance the one that had to state (for the n-th time) that 500 advisor points != being a Game Master.
I feared, that choosing the name \"Roleplaying Master\" could lead to people, not only to consider that with that name their rp is placed in a lower level, but also could claim \"Where are the points you\'ve to earn to become one\" like happened with the Game Master issue. This misunderstandings are a headache to all the community, I think; and thus, should be tried to be avoided before they have the chance to appear.
If the problem lays on a name that brings confusion, and unfortunately it\'s been proved that it brings it, then the best way to face it is change it, and adopt another one, less conflictive and perhaps more descriptive. Now that this new figure is at an early stage, it\'s the moment to spot, and fix those possible problem sources.
With my conversation with Zan, I specifically asked him if the name he suggested was \"Event Master\" and I seem to recall that was the name, well, but now seems that \"Master\" recalls too much to \"Game Master\" but it was chosen, precisely, for that similitude.
Since, as Keyaz said, both Game Masters, and Roleplay Masters are separate entities, the best way to, again, avoid the confusion, would be to have non-related names; that could lead to people reading one, and then recalling the other, thusly, stablishing a connection between the two.
I suggested Chaos the name of \"Event Manager\" as it seems that Master was bringing too many problems.
The name of \"Roleplay Master\" was picked up amongst others that were in mind, seeing how things turned, I suggest either reconsidering the initial decision, or making a public poll, so the community decides which name describes in the best way the RM functions, while at the same time keeping away any possible source of misunderstandings that, too often, end up in personal flaming.
As for the initial post, by Lanstri, I think he was, where he stated his alarm, when seeming to understand that he was prompted to write down all his rp actions in this forums: I recieved, in game, tells that where pointing in that same direction. I don\'t know if the stickies aren\'t clear enough, as when I read them I didn\'t had that thought Lanstri and others seemed to catch, but, again, if that feeling is shared by more than one person, perhaps there is indeed something in the writing that leads to think on that direction. Now I\'ll seem like the one who wants to rename it all :P but I\'m just seeing, while I write this post, that the forum is called \"In Game Roleplay\" perhaps it was that what lead those players to think that they were supposed to state about all their ingame actions here.
So, just again, the purpose of this subsection of the forums is making a track log of all the events that were assisted by this new figure, the RM, and the players that participated on any of them, are encouraged to post about their feelings while the action was performed ingame, and they can also add comments, suggestions for future events or criticism on how the event went.
At another time, there can be also a debate about the events themself, but, for the moment, I think that the whole conversation should be driven again to a constructive sharing of ideas.
I\'m neither used to long posts, Kythag ;) but I think it can add another point of view, hope all of you can extract something useful from it.
See you all ingame.
EDIT: Changed recognize for spot, I think it fits better. I think recognize only has a meaning of searching on military environments, or perhaps not even that...
Well, like that one said, more or less: Don\'t read what I wrote, but what I meant.
-
I am not in the mood to read all those macro rants that have been made, and it aint likely that I will ever get into that mood. But from the few scattered bits I have read I my opinion about Verliit dropped, extremely...
I am the last one to rant around, but this is really over the top...
1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.
You and which army? I haven\'t seen many stating that they are \"ready to take these folks apart, or leave the game in disgust\"
Again, I volunteer to help. PM me.
You want to be asked? I doubt that anyone will *ask* you for *help*
There is no conflict, no one is misbehaving, nobody asked Cha0s for help with a disruptive player, and yet here he is threatening people with muting, for something so trivial and common as OOC chat.
OOC Chat, if not marked up, is a terrible pain, especially if OOCers asume that those who RP are OOC to, ..., I remember scenes where someone interupted a good RP conversation with \"OMFG!111!111Ooneoneoelvenone THERE IS NO STEALING!!!!!!!\", OOC is bad enough, but it is worse if the OOCers dont accept RP.
Say otherwise, behave otherwise, even while giving it lip service, and you will lose what little authority and respect you have left, in the community.
says who?
The Devs only build a place to play.
The Players make the RP, and invent the games they can, using the things they have been given.
This is what RP is, Cha0s.
The Players are the game. Not the code.
I didnt know that you were the person to define what roleplaying is for every single other person in this community. Roleplay can vary vastly from person to person, ..., Just look at a quite common issue \"RP bugs or dont?\" I get myself torn quite often between players who RP out bugs and who dont, an example would be the not-so-long-ago wipe, where people made up some wierd latin name for a disease (which I cant remember anymore), and enforced it on others during RP...
By all means, this may be RP for you, but not for everyone else...
To sum up, you (Verliit) not only state that a whole bunch of others has just the excatly same opinion as you, without any proof, you have gone as far as to define what roleplaying *is*. Your so called *critism* is pretty much saying the same thing over and over again (\"We Dont Want RMs cause they limit our gameplay\"), which in my opinion isnt even true.
Personally, this looks like you being jealous and looking for a legitime way of mocking the RMs, ... but as I said this is how it appears to me, of course this could be wrong as well.