PlaneShift

Gameplay => Newbie Help (Start Here) => Topic started by: Alpha107 on December 23, 2005, 01:54:41 am

Title: Steep learning curve, fun?
Post by: Alpha107 on December 23, 2005, 01:54:41 am
Hey, I am currently downloading this (What seems to be) a great game, but I must know:
Is the learning curve steep (As most RPGs) and is it fun/ addictive.
Thanks, you can sleep easy knowing you helped a noob.
~Alpha107~
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Post by: Karyuu on December 23, 2005, 01:58:32 am
Hiya! Welcome to PlaneShift :) There truly isn\'t much to learn at the moment - the Player Guide and FAQs stickied in the forums will help you with pretty much everything you\'ll need. As this is a pre-alpha tech demo and far from a complete game, content is still being worked on and added every now and then. You can fight and mine, basically, but the most important thing, now and always, is roleplay. Be sure to act as your character as much as possible, and you\'ll have a ton of fun - at least I\'ve been addicted for about two years now :)
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Post by: Alpha107 on December 23, 2005, 02:01:42 am
Two years and they havn\'t released a full version (Though it\'s been in the workings for 5 right?) Is this full version years away?
So they keep updating with new stuff right, keep me occupied?
Well thank you.
Oh, one more question:
IS the full version free, or will i pay, or will it be free with additions you can pay for?
Thanks,
Alpha107
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Post by: Karyuu on December 23, 2005, 02:06:27 am
The awesome thing is that PlaneShift will always be free - that\'s the goal of the development team :) You\'ll never be charged for anything, no matter how complex the game will get. Currently we\'re on version 0.3.012, so it\'s still quite a ways away from 1.0. However, keeping in mind that everyone does this in their free time, volunteering everything and doing this as a hobby whenever a free moment arises, that\'s really something ;) And to keep it going without any pause for so long, too.

There\'s really no way to estimate how soon a \"full version\" will be released, since so many things can get in the way - jobs, life, etc. But everyone tries their hardest, and the important thing is that they all, we all, have fun contributing and playing.

And there is tons, tons of stuff planned to come :)
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Post by: steuben on December 23, 2005, 02:10:29 am
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There\'s really no way to estimate how soon a \"full version\" will be released,


it will be released soon(tm).
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Post by: Alpha107 on December 23, 2005, 02:12:11 am
Well, that certainly is a while, but hey, they seem like some nice guys.
I\'m sure there\'s always gonna be something for me to do, I look forward to playing.
Thanks again for the newbie help,
~Alpha107~
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Post by: Rumpnisse on December 27, 2005, 11:43:35 pm
Note: This is an actual conversation that took place. I edited out some non-essential bits (where the gap is) about in-game sounds but this is how it went. And I must say that this is the #1 problem with Planeshift. I\'d love to be able to *like* this game but... it\'s so ridiculously punishing for new players it\'s a doomed effort.

Seriously, you can\'t expect people to pick up this game if you punish them in this way. One of the first things you\'re probably going to do is to get yourself killed. Then you get some \"insider mystery maze\" to solve? Just to try again? No, thank you. I think perhaps the Dev Team have become too blind, because of their familiarity with the dying process. How about trying to look at \"coming to planeshift\" with \"newbie eyes\" for a minute. This isn\'t *fun* and it certainly is not *exciting*... this is boring, frustrating and a textbook example of bad game design. Sorry for the harsh words, but perhaps sometimes such words have a right and proper place in things. This is perhaps such a time.

[23:52:52] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] so... when you die... you dont respawn... you get spawned in the \"Death Realm\" and you have to find your way out of there in order to \"go up to life\" again... and, since you\'re obviously a noob (you died) you have no clue how to work the game at that point in time.
[23:53:49] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] so... you find yourself stuck in a dark place with lots of halls, invisible staircases and [ EDIT ]... and you\'re supposed to find your way out of there so you can enter the \"real game world\" again.... which you ofc can\'t do, cause you\'re a noob.
[23:54:49] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] in the end, some dutch guy took pity on me and showed me the way out of the death realm... which involved me running after him for 10 minutes, just to get out of there... a way which I\'ve almost forgotten already.
[23:55:07] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] GOOD DESIGN FOR A GAME, PLANESHIFT TEAM... GG
[23:55:29] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] jesus christ, it\'s like they dont *want* people to try their game....
[23:56:03] [@|it|aidsMONKEY|SM4C|] lol planeshift.. I gave up in the death realm
[23:56:11] [@|it|aidsMONKEY|SM4C|] I do not see how that game is fun
[23:57:25] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] Some dude showed me... it\'s a portal some 10 mins of running around... staircases... darkness... turns you wouldn\'t make yourself... like from a walkway, down into the caves... \"going offtrack\" all of a sudden....
[23:58:49] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] I think they were high when they designed that whole Death Realm thing.... it\'s a major turnoff...
[00:00:44] [@|it|aidsMONKEY|SM4C|] planeshift looks like it was designed by 100 people and every person got their stupid feature in thus making it suck balls
[00:03:37] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] I\'ve not played it enough to make that call... but then again... I died about 5 minutes into playing it... and have been stuck in that fucking Death Realm for over 2 hours (gametime), until I got an offer to help me out
[00:03:57] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] so essentially, I\'ve been in Death Realm all the bloody time.... GG PLANESHIFT TEAM
[00:05:55] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] The front page says it\'s 150.000 downloads.. I wonder how many of those uninstalled after their first trip to the Death Realm... like... 149.000


[00:16:47] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] everything is *so* fucking DARK
[00:18:59] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] oh please god no.... i was in a fight with a \"bandit\".. and now... I*M BACK IN THE FUCKING DEATH REALM
[00:19:34] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] that\'s it... this turd is getting uninstalled now...
[00:20:47] [@{SM4C}Suzanna_Holmes] damn, I think I\'m gonna post this convo (relevant parts) on the forums as feedback.... cause this is probably how most people experience planeshift.

P.S. Thank you again to Klaa*****(forgot rest of name) for finally showing me out of that hellhole. I\'d never have managed that myself in a million years.

[ Edited to remove a non-happy word. --Karyuu ]
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Post by: ThomPhoenix on December 28, 2005, 12:17:28 am
That\'s a bit too harsh, the DR is confusing the first time you enter it, but if you follow the path a bit and look around it\'s not that hard to find the exit. You said it was confusing to go \"off track\" all of a sudden. Well, you _have_ to go offtrack because the road ahead is a dead end, so it\'s not that confusing. And all the halls, ignore \'em, just follow the path.
Ofcourse the whole point of the DR is to make people don\'t wanna die, and it has succeeded in that way. And if you do get lost, it isn\'t a shame to ask for help, this is a multiplayer game you know.
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Post by: Xordan on December 28, 2005, 01:12:37 am
Give me lots of money and I\'ll personally make you a nice newbie zone to play in. :)
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Post by: hitancrias on December 28, 2005, 01:48:58 am
It saddens me to hear people are giving up on Planeshift because of the death realm. The truth is that, once you know the way and are familiar with the movement controls and the camera modes, it doesn?t take much more than three minutes to get out.

Some practical tips for escaping the deathrealm:The people from the logs are way too dramatically about the death realm. I agree that it?s easy to get lost in the beginning, but remember you?re not alone in the world. Every new player needs help, every older player has been a newbie once and the vast majority of them is willing to help the ones who need it.

So? steep learning curve? Yes, I think so. Besides getting lost in the deathrealm or any other place, you can easily get confused by broken quests, not working skills, non intuitive training systems and a player guide which by far doesn?t cover everything. These things most likely won?t get solved soon, as they are a logical consequence of the fact that PS is a work in progress. On the other hand, there are a lot of places where you can find tons of helpful souls: in game where you meet other players, in the help channel in game, where advisors are waiting to help you, here, in the newbie forum (FAQs!!) and in the planeshift IRC-channel. (http://www.planeshift.it/community_irc.htm)

Conclusion: With some patience, you?ll find out soon enough why PS is a game that is worth the efforts: the awesome, amazing and friendly community, the roleplaying and the fact that you?re part of a world in development.

See you all ingame!
Title: @hitancrias
Post by: Araye on December 28, 2005, 06:25:02 pm
That might be the best post I\'ve read on the subject.  Kudos!

Someone should cut it out and paste it into the Players Guide Introduction.

Seriously
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Post by: Persaphone on December 28, 2005, 09:59:56 pm
Wish I had read that before I died!  This is only my 3rd day playing and getting started was very frustrating. I remade my character 4 times before I realized the people die and get out of the death realm all the time. I will say that people in the death realm are not as eager to help us newbies as they are in the rest of the game.
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Post by: CerviasG on December 29, 2005, 10:07:20 am
Shoot.. I make daily trips to the DR... You get used to it quick... then you start to auto-run and when you get to the exit you tell your guild... \"Holy crap! I just walked the DR and don\'t remember any of it!!\"
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Post by: Godfrey on December 29, 2005, 05:42:19 pm
So, um... am I the only person who actually enjoyed the Death Realm upon encountering it for the first time?

I mean, the first thing I wanted to do when I got into the game was to explore the world, to see what I could see -- and when I walked over a ledge and fell to my death, the Death Realm was just one more interesting new place to explore, even as tiny as it was in those days.

And then I enjoyed it even more when they revamped it; I must\'ve spent a couple of hours exploring in there before I found my way out, but I loved every minute of it (even if I did fall right through the lower walkway several times and have to start again).  It was a fun challenge to find my way out, and it gave me quite a thrill when I\'d met the challenge and emerged victorious.


Quote
Originally posted by Persaphone
I will say that people in the death realm are not as eager to help us newbies as they are in the rest of the game.

Really?  Weird.  I\'ve seen plenty of people in the Death Realm help out the newbies who ask for help.  I\'ve slowed down many a time to let newbies follow me out, if they\'ve let it be known that they\'re lost.
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Post by: Bereror on December 29, 2005, 06:46:48 pm
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Originally posted by Godfrey
So, um... am I the only person who actually enjoyed the Death Realm upon encountering it for the first time?

No, you are not ;)  When the Death Realm was expanded, I spent days in it, exploring and just enjoying the view. I even modified my world file in deathrealm.zip to add some bloody fog and spent more days walking around :)  Death Realm is my favorite place to go and not a punishment. Hey, I even created a new character who lives in Death Realm and never leaves.
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Post by: hitancrias on December 29, 2005, 07:38:27 pm
I?m glad to hear people found my tips useful.

Quote
Originally posted by Godfrey
So, um... am I the only person who actually enjoyed the

I too enjoyed the death-realm the first time I got there, and still do. But the big difference is that our first ?death-realm experience? was in a much smaller death-realm. Sure, it was dark, but you couldn?t really get lost as it was just one path.
When they expanded the death-realm, we weren?t newbies anymore, so it again was relatively easy for us to adapt and to find the new route to the exit.

Right now, new people have to face the big death-realm. It\'s a long run, and they get lost and often have to start over, because they often fall because they don?t see where they are going because they are not familiar with the camera-modes and it is dark. I can imagine it is really annoying. For us it might have been awesome to explore the new death-realm, but people who are new might rather want to explore the good looking city and the mechanics of the game first.

When I first heard people who said they were trapped down there for days, I could hardly believe it. But I?m afraid it?s true in some cases. When people make a new char or leave at all because of the death-realm is too frustrating, you know there is something wrong.

Since the average newbie is quite a bit shyer then the average long time player, maybe we also should actively approach people who seem to be lost.
There are souls to be saved!
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Post by: Howk Oga on December 29, 2005, 08:48:35 pm
I joined only a few days ago and quickly found myself in DR. And that is where I probably understood how the game mechanics worked and relating to other characters. I received help from someone who realised I was new. Since then, I have ended up down there a number of times and have helped a dozen of new players to get out (which I usually approached wondering if they are doing alrigth), who have been really appreciative. in fact last night two were about to quit the game altogether, but after i gave them some help and tips on Planeshift they stayed on.

This is the first Rp game i have played and it has been difficult to get going but tons of fun now that I understand how it all works.
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Post by: Rumpnisse on December 30, 2005, 01:28:43 am
I was meaning to make some lengthy reply about the dynamics of drawing players into a new game - level of complexity vs ease of use, etc... but after tonight I\'m just packing it in, instead.

Oh, I did find my way around the Death Realm using the -fullbright settings. Once someone shows you how to do it and you actually *can see* the map then it isn\'t too hard. Although it would still be murder for a noob unless he just happens to find a kind soul when he dies. Most people who download PS probably uninstall after dying and never finding their way out of the DR, but hey, if that\'s the way you like it. I only stuck around for so long because I really wanted to find a nice mmorpg to play around with, so I was rather hellbent on giving it my best shot.

The thing that made me suicide my character and pack it in was the fact that I\'m still owning exactly 0 trias after three evenings of PlaneShift and I have no pickaxe for mining, nothing to kill rats with, nothing to really do exept impotently walk around trying to GET SOME SENSE out of the NPC\'s who just want me to rephrase everything endlessly... and I like to think that I can speak rather good english even though it\'s not my native language. Surely SOME quest should have dropped out of them by now.

The NPC\'s are morons. There is no documentation about how to get started (no REAL documentation). The forums provide you with some vague idea about what to do. But you\'re still left to fend for yourself 99.9% of the time. Sorry, but that just won\'t do. What\'s the USE of having a newbie forum section if it\'s filled with piffle? New players dont come here for \"some vague clue\" they come here for ANSWERS. Unless you are get someone to babysit you and walk you through the game every step of the way, this is just too hard. Couple that with the cumbersome in-game chat and you\'re up a certain creek without a paddle.

I have been trying my hand at this for three evenings now and I still have no idea how to actually GET STARTED. I have scouted out the location where I go to mine, but I can\'t mine without a pickaxe. I need some money. You can get money for killing rats, I understand after reading the forums. No use talking to Harnqvist because he\'s an idiot. I tried to venture into the sewers a few times to kill some rats. The rats were either \"impervious to attack\" or just killed me without my doing any damage. Apparently I need some sort of weapon to kill them. For a weapon I need some money. Sweet Jesus Christ, why do you PUNISH new players to this extent? Enough! Getting somewhere in PlaneShift without a personal in-game babysitter to hold your hand and tell your everything in person is impossible it seems. Doesn\'t that tell you that there\'s something fundamentally wrong here?

But I think you cater to a totally different crowd. The \"game\" aspect of this \"mmorpg\" is completely and utterly lacking. This is more of a \"3d roleplaying chat\" than a mmorpg. (and dont start splitting hairs, you know what I am referring to) Well, each to his/her/its own. Hope you have fun marrying each other in your 3d fantasy world. I think I\'ll go find a mmorpg that you can actually *play* a little bit as well.  Bye bye now & Take care.
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Post by: Karyuu on December 30, 2005, 02:13:27 am
Hiya, I believe that the term \"pre-alpha tech demo\" was mentioned enough times for it to be a sort of hint as to what to expect. This is far from a complete game, and definitely not newbie friendly, yes, unless someone has a lot of patience and determination. This is not even a \"game\" yet - most people do not consider it to be at that stage. So what you are saying is true. But considering that everything here is volunteered and the development team does everything in their free time, this is still pretty impressive.

First, you do not need a weapon to kill rats - you can fight using fists. Monsters are impervious to attack when NPCclient that handles such actions is down, so I\'m sorry that you caught it at a bad time once. If something kills you without doing any damage, it\'s likely a bug, some issue of lag, or perhaps you simply didn\'t notice the attack messages. I believe there are also rats of different strengths.

Second, there are FAQs in these forums just for beginners. They are stickied as \"Important,\" and deal with many of the questions new players tend to ask, such as what to actually do, where to find something, and how to ask for further help.

I\'m not blaming anyone for giving up, but I too would like people to understand that this is just a beginning, and throwing your hands up and saying how utterly hard everything is, without doing enough research outside of the game to understand what you must do inside of it, doesn\'t help anyone with anything. There are plenty of people who immediately jump in and have no problems finding what they want, even without others showing them. And there are those who can\'t understand a single command. But there is help, whether someone needs it or not - you can refer to the Help tab of your chat window, you can send a petition to GMs, you can ask questions on the forum, you can wander into the PlaneShift IRC channel and prod people over there. There is always someone available - as long as you don\'t have unrealistic expectations for a game at this stage of development, which I think is the basic problem.

The devs aren\'t yet working on making a watered down newbie-friendly beginning. They are working towards one with stable code.
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Post by: Izzy*dot on December 30, 2005, 12:05:31 pm
*rolleyes*

I would like to cuuuuurse right now but I know you\'ll kick my butt for that, Karyuu :D
How can people be so harsh? Phew, unbelievable. It\'s like it has been said before, WHAT DO YOU THINK PRE-ALPHA MEANS?

No need to get on your horses, no need to break everything down, I agree there are lots of bugs, there are lots of problems...But hey, I got something new for you, Rumpnisse. Mainly, if something is not working, like the rat you can\'t kill.. IT\'S YOUR OWN FAULT. Got that? It\'s you, it\'s not planeshift, it\'s you. And you know what you do then? You get on to the forums and ask for help. Or ask in-game. So you say the newbie forum is filled with...\"piffle\". Uhuh. Well then mister Rumpnisse how come YOU didn\'t ask any questions then? I see, you know, you got only 2 posts on this forum. Hmmh... I guess if you had SOOOO MUCH problems, you should have asked aloooot of questions, cuz since the answers arent here (it\'s all PIFFLE), it\'s you who asks them.

No, be lazy. Give up. If you think like that, you\'re not even meant to be here.

Sorry for my ramble everybody else :D
Title: @Rumpnisse
Post by: Araye on December 30, 2005, 05:53:09 pm
Hey I see your point.  But I didn\'t quit, now I love to play.

Getting started is hard for some character types and can seem unfair especially when some races are started out with over 100 STR and END.  This makes it easy for them to walk into the arena and start killing mercenaries bare handed (as I can now) whereas it took me weeks of development before I could go up against them.

Since these certain races can kill bigger quicker, they are able to quickly raise the stats they suck in, whereas it took me forever.

I too was stuck in the death realm for three solid days.  I was very frustrated, but stuck it out because I could play this game on Linux.  Maybe because I am used to Linux and its development model I saw the game differently.  I don\'t know, but I\'m glad I did.

The key thing that changed the game for me was this:  I asked for help.  I swallowed my, \"I can do this by myself\" attitude and asked the next person that walked past me in the DR for help.  You know what?  They helped me.  I got out.

I quickly went back to my solitary ways however, but I knew that I could ask for help and someone would help me.

The next thing I learned was, join a guild.  I thought, \"I like being a loner, an outsider.  Yeah, that\'s me, dark and myterious\".  But a nice person, one that I had met earlier said, \"hey want to join my guild?\"

I was hesitant.  It was something new.  But after some thought I figured, \"I can always quit.\"

Guess what?  After I joined the guild, the chat box came alive and I suddenly had friends.  Instantly, talking about everything.  Answering all the questions I had and even some I didn\'t know to ask.  Tons of information.

So if you\'re new.  If you\'re lost.  ASK!  Then JOIN A GUILD!

We are more than happy to help.  I\'ve sort of made it my mission to help others.  /tell Araye help

If I\'m online I will help you.

Araye

Edited some typos
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Post by: Izzy*dot on December 30, 2005, 06:06:05 pm
See, what Araye says is right. It\'s what I and many others will say too. Ask. It\'s not a sin to ask. And indeed, like Araye did, suck in that \"I don\'t need help\" attitude :)

Well, I said it a bit more...angry probably. But hey. Same message :D Oh and hey Rumpnisse, I guess there\'s no point in this thread since you\'ve probably already left, but in case you read this : SEE, THERE ARE HELPING PEOPLE HERE :D